Watch This BEFORE You Regear your Jeep JL/JT - Lessons learned the hard way.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ต.ค. 2022
- My regear only lasted one year and here's why and what I'm doing to fix the issue in the future.
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Super appreciate you letting us know this =D Thanks so much! I'm only just getting into this adventure, and you're definitely up there as someone I look to when it comes to JL's and how to build them =)
Im glad you made this video. Sucks you ran into a problem, but your video might help others from running into this.
I've heard some professionals say that Dimpled section in the diff cover is important because it allows the gear oil to be applied directly to the ring gear, by following a channel.
unlike a smooth face or wide open area on the cover which doesn't focus the oil directly onto the gear
Same here.
Gale Banks has done extensive research on differential cover design.
@@MrTurbo64 and Banks has good videos explaining why
Exactly, Gale Banks shows this to be correct with actual testing.
Good information and definitely something to think about. Also goes to show that you need to be pretty picky on who you have do the work when you regear to ensure that they have some real experience and knowledge on the issues that can result from expected usage, etc. I was reading that the Nissan Dana 44s had some early issues due to heat. My track cars have diff coolers and actually recommend fluid replacement pretty often when tracking and I expect that trailer towing and off-roading would put similar stress. Also being particular about the fluid never hurts.
Great topic and thanks for sharing your experience.
1st off, I install thousands of gears, if that pinion was a simple (to Hot) the bad patch would be the whole pinion, there were impurities in the steal. You did nothing wrong, manufacturer had junk steel. I have several pic of overheated pinions if you would like to see
This makes more sense. But it’s easier to blame the person so they will pay for the new gears instead of warranty them.
I 2nd what Kevin said. One ton axels on a s10 truck with 5.13s on 38.5x16 super swampers. Stock covers and it is a strictly a mud truck that only sees full throttle. More importantly what brand did you go with? I like Yukon.
I see bad gears all the time, not sure how to reply with a pic or two on here
I agree with Kevin. It looks either a material issue or a heat treat issue. I'm a gear Engineer.
Are you in CA
Matt. Thanks buddy. Shared your video with the wife & it flamed up a great conversation. The conclusion to the conversation is, we’re pulling the trigger on these deaf covers as well for our 2021 Mojave.
Wow. Thanks for the info. I had no idea about the additional fluid recommendation.
Great content. Great to learn from your experience.
75-140 Amsoil SEVERE gear W/ upgraded diff cover to fix this heat and lubrication shortfall
Larger fluid volume does not lower temps, just the time it takes to get to max temp.
And then takes a longer time to loos that heat, i.e. cool.
One thing to mention as well that some people don't know, is to make sure the proper break in procedure is done to extend the life of the ring and pinion.
Iv never herd of needing to this could you please explain
@@anthonyjoe6442 I can't remember the exact specifics, but when I had my Yukons installed, for the first15-20 miles it was recommended to not go over 45 and to then stop and let them cool for about 30 mins. No hard acceleration, no burnouts, no towing, etc, just take it easy for the first 500 miles. After 500 milers change the gear oil. After the 500 miles if you'll be towing, they recommend to repeat the same procedure for another 500 miles. Usually when I change the gear oil after the 500 miles, I inspect it to make sure everything looks good, including making sure no ring gear bolts have backed out and that the bearing cap bolts are still torqued properly. I'm sure there's people out there that don't do this and have no problems, but I prefer to do what the manufacturer recommends to ensure the longevity of my gears
☝🏽 this procedure checks out!💪🏽💪🏽 it’s a time investment for sure, but you also just paid a couple of thousand dollars to get it done. I’ve always used Yukon and never had a problem. 5.13 on two JK running 38”. I was warned both times that the 5.13 pinion is real small. So it’s not as strong as a 4.88 or 4.56. With my JT now, also running 38” I’ll probably re gear to 4.56 or 4.88. The aftermarket diff cover I think is not a solution. Especially if your going to off road with it. A finned diff cover is only good for on road trailer towing.
Also look at non-synthetic vs synthetic in gear oil. Years ago I heard about a study claiming with synthetic oil that the oil itself was cooler but the gears were hotter. Same test done with non-synthetic and the oil was hotter, but the gears were cooler. It made sense to me at the time, you want the oil to transfer the heat from the gears/bearings. All things to think about, i honestly think it was a bad batch, or a bad install, or bad break in period. 🤷🏽♂️
Great information! Thank you!
That really sucks. I'm glad you got it taken care of before it was a disaster.
Just had to redue my rear that was 5.13s with a similar problem. I went with arb diff covers
Intersting. I just swapped my diff covers. Before I did the work, I researched what kind of diff fluid I needed for the front vs the rear.
Jeep recommended synthetic 75w-85 for front and rear, and 75x90 is ok. What I learned is that if you plan to tow, you need to use 75w-140 for the rear.
Had my wife's JL re-geared at the same shop you did and I did not get any kind of recommendation for aftermarket diff covers. I guess I will now be looking to purchase some. All in all, I haven't been real satisfied with them. They did good work, but the customer service was sub-par.
That’s very good information awesome that you shared with us thanks and sorry what happened to you
You should lookup the Banks video series on diff covers. If they aren’t designed correctly, they can create more problems than they solve.
I've seen them.
@@OzarkOverlandAdventures oh ok! I don’t know if I’d be comfortable buying a cover with a flat back after watching that series.
@@ShoddyRC that was done with a totally flat diff cover with horizontal fins inside that prevented the fluid from flowing well. I think mine will be fine.
@@OzarkOverlandAdventures it probably will be ok. But only one of the tested covers had horizontal fins. The clear back version showing all the aeration had no fins. It seems like your first gears had something else going on, but it was easier to blame you so you’d pay for the new ones. Hopefully you’ll have better luck with the new ones.
@@OzarkOverlandAdventures Dude was just trying to help, and he isn't wrong. Yours may be fine but it is clear, despite Gale being a salesman first, a flat back cover is less efficient than a curved and channeled one. Love the channel.
That was almost 6 minutes 😳. Very informative video 👍
Great info, thanks!
Great video - Thank you for the heads up, sorry you had to find out the hard way! I didn't see a link for that exact diff cover in your description.
Great video. Thanks
Thinking about going deeper in my gears on my K10 front axle is a factory Dana 44 and I never even thought about this. I knew you could get diff covers that increased capacity and promoted cooling of gears but I never thought about gears overheating
Thanks for the video. Man im experiencing the same issue /sound on my JT w 5.13s! Mine have 18 months and 5k mi 👎🏼
Tmw ill remove the diff cover and see 👀
The only oil is gong to protect your gears is amsoil gear oil, not a dif cover. Good luck!
I love your videos!
This^^. SevereGear is the best
I feel your pain. I'm on my second pinion bearing on the gladiator in 47k miles and was never told to upgrade the diff cover. I'll definitely be looking into it.
Bearings are junk since Covid, not sure why but it’s common now
@@kevinbarwell7500 I went aftermarket this time around so we will see if it's any better🤔
I got 4.88 with 37's and wasn't told to get new diff covers
Majority of the diff covers don't hold any more fluid than the factory ones. A proper break in and diff fluid changes are crucial to how well the gears perform later on down the road.
I have aftermarket axels on my 17 wrangler. The cover also has a mini lip. Unfortunately dragged it over rocks a few times also. You should be okay without a dif skid.
Well that looked expensive. I love off roading and why when we had kids I had to sell the FJ. Older now, kids gone, building a 21 Tacoma. Still $$$$$$$
Besides proper break in you need to service the diff after 500 miles.
I just put 35s on my gladiator and was wondering about regear and thanks for the information
Watch the video "Don't ReGear Your Jeep Until YOU Watch This Video! Wrangler & JT 2018+" from Exodus 4x4 th-cam.com/video/yIBXeQdz_4I/w-d-xo.htmlsi=48h9ghLADLZXaK2R
There was an interesting video by Banks demonstrating how some aftermarket diff covers don't have the right internal contours to properly sling the oil up and forward to keep the pinion lubricated.
I've seen it.
Got same diff cover in red!
I like the Banks differential cover better. Very well designed and effective.
Was a proper break-in period followed and fluid changed after the break-in period done
yes
Great informative video. But I would have definitely torque down the bolts on the diff cover
some of those aftermarket covers do not flow the oil properly.. Check out Banks series of videos on this subject. Personally i went with Dana/Spicer covers designed for the diffs.. Proper break in is also a must. I think your gear issue may be more related to gear quality then oil.. I personally have never seen gears fail from heat unless a diff leak caused them to run dry. If it was a heat fail those gears would be a bright blue and would likely have melted your locker unit and plug.... Hope you have better luck with this next set...
This seems to be more common with JT's than it was with previous Wranglers. Those plastic cadge ball bearing on the pinion shaft, smaller than JK ring gear and "much" smaller than JK pinion gear all scream of a design that is orientated at squeezing an extra 1/4 mpg out at the expense of durability. Add to that a heavier Jeep and the huge tires that people expect stock axles to handle, and this is what you get.
Look into baton rouge industries l-625 gear lube. Search on TH-cam and there is on old silent comparison video compared to conventional gear oil.
Yep just ran into same issue… 5:13 revolution rem gears and after 30k miles rear is shot. Should note I changed to Yukon covers at time of regear a year ago. Changing to the Dana ultimate 44 covers. Apparently a super common failure on JT’s.
I remember a few years back watching a video from I believe Banks Power talking about how most aftermarket diff covers actually change the way the fluid flows inside the housing and to bearings.(or lack there of) you may want to search for that.
I've seen it. The AFE covers aren't completely flat. They are working great!
Thats a tough spot but I am glad it did not leave you stranded somewhere precarious like at 45 degree angle next to a shelf road on 8/10 difficulty trail or something.
That being said, as a long time tower of trailers and such... I would highly discourage anyone from towing anything exceeding 63 miles per hour. At that point you are just inviting all sorts of problems if not to your vehicle then to the trailer. You have no idea how many people passed me all gun ho on way to Moab from Florida and back... only to get stranded on side of the road with broken trucks, trailers and more.
I would also suggest that folks do not tow anything for longer than 2 hours without giving it some rest. Yes we all have to get somewhere but an ounce of prevention is cheaper than pound of cure. On my motorhomes I have/d a TST tire monitoring system and it is so incredibly interesting to see how everything heats up, pressurizes and such. It gives a clear indication if you are not weight distributed properly.
On the offroad menu of rubicons it gives all sorts of temperature readings. Too bad it turns off at speed. Would have been a cool thing to give you a ringa ding ding warning or something if its overheating en route to pull over and address lingering issues.
Great advice. Unfortunately there's no temp sensor for the diffs.
We learn by mistakes, most of us have been there. I do all my gears Jeeps to Race Cars and heat is a problem especially when the pinion is so small on the 5 and lower gear sets the pinion gear is spinning very fast. I also use aftermarket covers for more fluid capacity . Yukon gears in the Jeeps 5.13 in the TJ 4.88 in the 2 Door JK and soon 5.13 in the Gladiator. I was thinking when I saw the thickness of the cover that won't never clear that sway bar but I was truely surprised when you installed the "included" spacers. Great Do It Yourself Video!!
Yea. I want ox locker (with their diff cover) or at least an aftermarket cover for my front jeep tj axle. But my track bar already hits my factor cover :(
Matt, whose David? Does he live in Conway?
David lives in Vilonia.
Thanks!
There was a thread going around the gladiator forum the other day on odd Nitro 4.63 size gears. The OP was asking if it was a good size. A few knowledgeable folks let them know the issue with an odd duck gear sizing.
Nitro is horrible and even worse customer service. Us ZR2 guys have been waiting 6 months or more to even receive gears and install kits. Glad you got it fixed
Banks Power did some great videos about 4 years ago with clear diff covers to see how diff fluid behaves at different rpms if you're interested in an "internal" view of gears getting oiled.
Those famous (or infamous, depending on what camp you were in) videos were always a point of contention on the diesel forums 😆
I've seen them.
You should watch the video series on diff covers by Banks Power. You may change your mind on what you did. Plus I would never run an aluminum diff cover off road. I've seen 2 of them break.
I've seen them.
Just a minor: your diff cover is flat which causes lots of turbulence (bubbles) on the oil, check the Banks diff cover their video shows the effect of a flat diff cover on bad oiling the piñon /pinion
Banks power has great videos on dif covers 👍🏻
I've seen them.
Metalcloak makes a sweet rear diff skid ...
That stinks but thanks for sharing your experience. Maybe it will keep someone from going through that
nice video
since the gear change and with the new cover afe have you still had problems with gear heat?
After watching a video about fluid dynamics inside the diff housing, I'm not a fan of flat aftermarket diff covers. Hope you don't have any issues with yours.
This can also happen from trying to pull shit while in reverse. Never recover others in reverse...
You need to watch Gale Banks video series on diff covers, it covers oil levels and fins. Some of what is said isn’t true. More oil isn’t aerates and actually breaks down faster. If diff covers arent curved correctly it won’t oil the pinion either. But rolling the diff to correct pinion angle for the lift may have effected it’s ability to get oil
I've seen them.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I am hesitant to add an aftermarket cover because of the Banks video showing flow of diff oil. I also wonder about your gear set mfg and installer.
I ran 5.38s on my Mojave and pulled a 5000 lb trailer up and down the rocky mountains and never had issues. Spicer gears with a reputable installer.
the 5:13 are good, but the dana 5:38 gears are amazing for 38s to 40s and especially since you tow
5.29s were a little too much for 38s. I can't imagine how bad 5.38s would be on the highway.
@@OzarkOverlandAdventures Just regeared to 4.88s for 38s on my JLUR v6 and I feel that is goes through gears too quick sometimes. I am positive that I can run 40s and still hit 8th gear consistently.
That sucks but glad the resources were available to get sully fixed. But what’s the sway bar doing back there …. Nvrmd 🤦🏻♂️
Sorry to see a pinion failure so quick. What gear manufacturer did you use this go round?
Yukon gears have a 7 year warranty if I'm not mistaken.
That aluminum diff cover isn't going to hold up against much rock bushings, watch close for cracks or worse damage to it. Good luck with it, great videos you make, thanks I enjoy them all.
original gears were Nitro. New gears are Yukon. I'm not too worried about aluminum in the rear. I shouldn't be backing up into rocks. lol. On the front I would be concerned.
… warning … before you install the afe diff cover.. unscrew eyesight hole and wrap additional white plumber Teflon tape around everything . Afe diff covers are dope but they all leak fluid . They leak fluid thu the eye sight hole !!! I had to do this to my front and rear afe covers !! I check on them every few week to see if there any additional leaks !!! The leak starts developing after a few weeks . It’s been 1 year and everything good now .. but I’m alway checking to see.
I did. just didn't show it on camera.
The company you brought it to, I have heard is the "go to" I won't mentioned their name. I was going to have them do my lift, etc. I am sure this is not your intention, but I am having second thoughts. I have heard "go to" from quite a few, but your recent issue, is also not the first I have heard either. Thanks for the video.
You mean it was a flawed install (ring & pinion)?
I think the install was done well. Just wasn't given key info I needed to make them last.
@@OzarkOverlandAdventures installation I am sure was correct, but the QC seemed to miss an important item.
When you added the shims and larger diff cover does that take away from the amount of space in the spare tire area? For those of use still using that space. Thanks.
Good info, thanks for sharing! Curious if you’re seeing much difference between the 5.29 and the 5.13 ratio.
I haven't had the 5.13s on the interstate yet to really see what RPM I'm getting at 75mph.
@@OzarkOverlandAdventures I had a feeling. Seemed like a pretty recent thing. Looking forward to hearing more about that after you’ve put a few miles in 🤘🏼
Don’t know if you thought about it but running a jeep E locker has a big magnet to activate the locker and it heats the diff fluid at the rate of about 130 Watts of heat any time they are engaged this is also another contributing factor of the fluid over heating and braking down.
I rarely use my lockers.
Do you have the part number for the Afe cover? Im going with the same setup thank you!
I remember when your windshield crack was just a little baby chip. They sure grow up fast, don't they?
I'm sorry that happened to you, but thanks for the education.i will make mistakes in my builds, but not this one.
Diff skid sounds like a great idea if you didn't already do it.
With 5.29 I think you'd be over 100:1 crawl even with 40s , which is awesome.
I really don't think it would hurt interstate gas mileage that much either because that 8 speed transmission has so much overdrive.
I have front and rear diff skids. They have been hit a few times rock crawling around Utah so definitely would recommend if you use it in rocky places.
how are the gears holding Up ? Do You think the fined cover helped ? I installed a AFE with 4.56 gears Christmas . for Me it seem to displace heat.
It’s interesting that that one pinion tooth doesn’t have any sort of mutilation at all. Makes me wonder if there was an issue with pinion runout.
Yup, if that company knew that the work done required an upgrade on the dif cover and they did not recommend it or make it part of the upgrade then I say they are liable. And if they did not compensate you after hearing about your situation I say they suck and will never use them.
Use Amsoil gear lube, by far the best gear lube on the market.
I did a re-gear with factory cover four years ago and haven’t had this issue at all so it sounds to me it was an installation error.
I just recently blew up lunch box locker and since upgraded. Point is I did it two and a half hours away from home drove it home with pieces of the shrapnel getting into my gears chipped it but didn't do nearly as much damage. No offense not do I care, I've seen some videos I do trails much more difficult... Point is I'm not saying you're wrong but I don't think that's what happened to your gears those look terrible?? It's just reminds me of when guys have old engines that are overheating and they try aluminum radiators they sit in the other one it's not the real problem.
Changing diff gears barefooted!!! Heck yea!! Lol
I wasn’t changing the gears. Just the diff cover.
I don’t think the cover is going to help you 100%. Yes it will give you more oil capacity, but it’s gonna give you another problem on getting your oil to your pinion gear and bearings. And I would highly recommend Amsoil gear oil. It handles heat very well. Good luck to you.
I am hesitant to re-gear because mine is a 2022 and still under warranty. I am running 35" tires and want to go to 37", but gear change is mandatory for that to happen. Patiently waiting for that day.
I have a 2023 jeep with 4.88s in it now. The thing is that the dealer has to prove that the issue that happened was because of whatever you did to your jeep. Jeeps come with 4.56 and 4.88 gears nowadays so you should be fine. 4.88s only raise the rpms to 400 more. You running a 35 with factory gearing is causing more stress on the engine and transmission and everything else involved. I actually average about 3 mpg more with the 4.88s and 35s.
Wore out the pinion gear in a few months from a lot of driving and some towing...with good oil on board...neah, you received bad parts/steel etc.
That's possible but hard to prove.
have you thought about grinding the bottom of the diff cover to get it level??
I'm going to watch it and see how it goes.
I really doubt your issue had anything to do with the cover. The pinion is just too small when you go that steep with gears with a Dana 44. I’m sure the 5.13’s will work out better for you.
Matt did you ever extend your diff breathers and transfer case? If so what brand did you use?
I just buy the fuel hose from an auto parts store and do it myself. It's super easy.
Just a bigger diff cover and more oil don’t mean it works better. There is more technology into them then people think it’s how it’s moves the oil around in the diff. there is a good video on you tube about this.
Thanks for sharing.
The question is: what’s the best diff cover to be replaced?
I'm pretty happy with my AFE covers.
Guess we’ll see…
Good luck..
keep on Jeep’n….
There's two break in cycles to do. One for regular driving and one for towing to temper the gears properly to what you are doing.
Nitro also recommend changing the fluid after the first 500 miles as well as not using synthetic (they recommend Lucas). Since he is changing the fluid just to change the cover and not waiting for the break in mileage makes me wonder if the original gears were broken in properly.
and then how is the new gear and covers
Watch Banks Diff cover you-tube video!
I've seen them.
Sucks but thanks for passing on the info.
5.29 gears and 38’s are a lot for the stock axles. Especially with all the weight of overland stuff. So I wouldn’t blame the installation or gears.
If this was on a JK I would agree with you but the new axles on the JL/JT are much stronger and can handle it.
Sure hate this for you. Thank you for sharing your experience.
Great video and very informative, with that, I’am new too off road, have 35’s and looking too upgrade to 37’s within a year or so. What is the best gears to go with and what kind? I don’t want this too happen to me. Thanks
Gas/auto?
4.56 for 35 4.88 for 37
Running 33’s now on factory 4:10’s, but getting ready to go 35’s or maybe even 37’s sounds like I should just stick to the 4:88, correct? I don’t tow but get on highways for extended periods in 90+ weather most of the time. Sounds like lots of dislike with Yukon and Nitro gears. Any req’s would be appreciated. Thank you!
Will u recommend change the factory cover on a 2020 jt rubicon with 35s o 37s?? Thanks
If you still have the stock gears, no.
Thanks for this video. I am new to all this and building my new jeep gladiator Rubicon 3.6 with new TeraFlex suspension and I’m going all in, about 20,000 in so far in upgrade estimates. I am heavily considering regearing to 5:13 since I will have 37’s and am building for over landing. Any suggestions on dependable brands? Other diff cover options?
Yukon is solid. I’m not really aware of any bad brands.
The only thing I have heard consistently is stay away from Chinese made gears following Covid. The QC isn't there anymore. Yukon is a Chinese gear set. Dana Spicer or Revolution gear are both American made. A lot of Jeep shops are going away from Yukon following Covid from repeated failures. Don't take my word for it, google Yukon gear failure. I haven't personally heard of Nitros failing, but clearly they did in Matt's case. I've been told to go for Dana Spicer, and if you can't get those go for Revolution.
I ran 488's on a wrangler with a stock diff cover, Never had an issue. Install needs to be precise with gear mating. But I didn't run nearly as hard as you.
A Wrangler is nowhere near the same as a heavy Gladiator that also tows a trailer.
Didn't make out what type of oil you put in, but thought I'd comment that you want to use conventional/NON synthetic lubricant back there. Synthetic oil is good at staying cool, but when you want to keep your gears cool, you want an oil that will absorb the heat and conventional does a better job at that. Most gear manufacturers recommend a non-synthetic oil, especially during the break-in phase.
This is a huge one that everyone likes to debate. Synthetics are great!! Super great- but for gears sometime too great! Deep gears get hot! Especially when your running 70-80mph on the highway for long periods of time. Cost me a new rear ring and pinion running 5.13… synthetic fluid gears made it 30k miles and this was changing fluid every 10-15k miles.
Natural oil same change intervals 70k no issues.
Hey Matt - That is so wrong! It does make me wonder about the towing: My teardrop is about 2,500 lbs and I tow it at highway speed quite a lot... I'm running my stock 3.73 gears in my 2021 Gladiator and your experience has me wondering if I should install the larger diff cover to help keep the temp down in the rear differential. As I mentioned in my earlier comment I don't wheel it seriously but i do cover a lot of highway miles pulling the trailer.
He's actually wrong about it. Fluid capacity dose help but for temperature. But his failed due to bad manufacturing.
@jessemeanlt1 - That's plausible but you can't say that with certainty since you aren't here to fully examine the parts.
@@jessemeanlt1 The only thing I have heard consistently is stay away from Chinese made gears following Covid. The QC isn't there anymore. Yukon is a Chinese gear set. Dana Spicer or Revolution gear are both American made. A lot of Jeep shops are going away from Yukon following Covid from repeated failures. Don't take my word for it, google Yukon gear failure. I haven't personally heard of Nitros failing, but clearly they did in Matt's case. I've been told to go for Dana Spicer, and if you can't get those go for Revolution.
Gear oil slinger was not installed or it was run low on fluid. I have 40k on 5.38’s and 39’s and approx 10k of that is towing a 5k camper. Make sure the slinger is there.
It definitely wasn't low on fluid at any point.
Might be too late to verify if the slinger was installed, but that’s my next guess. I’m leaning towards the other comment stating the gears were made of a bad batch of material. I have a real hard time believing the cover is in any way responsible.
Running anything over 4.88’s in a Dana 44 is asking for trouble
If this were a JK axle I would agree with you. The new 44s for the JL/JT are very different.
@@OzarkOverlandAdventures different in a worse way. JT/JL ring gears are smaller than JK and the pinion is much smaller. If you look at the JT/JL ball bearing vs tapered roller bearings in the pinion tail, it is obvious that the design change was all about mpg and not making a stronger gear set. If you keep running heavy on 38's with these axles it is going to happen again.
Gale Banks did a study on aftermarket diff covers you should watch the video
I’ve seen it.
Seems your back lash was set too tight resulting in excess heat from your gears. Your gears can take more heat then the oil can. If it was a diff cover issue not being able dissipate the heat the entire diff housing and cover wouldn't look as clean. Also if adding a larger diff cover was necessary for driving long stretches with high ratio rear ends then what happens when the vehicle is towing? Toyotas have been running 5.29s for ages in their little 8 inch rear end housings with no problem granted the 3rd member was set up properly but setting up those diffs are a breeze. I'm just giving some food for thought