Thanks for this conversation. The stories around the women in the early church gathering into informal monastic communities reminds me of several modern examples. I think the same thing happened to the nuns under St. Nektarios and also to Elderess Makrina in her early life. Both were groups of pious young women who wanted to live a monastic life together and then found a spiritual father to help them as a group. Also, we still have priests and even Abbots who have abbesses as their spiritual mothers. I love that we can see the common life of the church "back then" and now.
what was not mentioned was that deaconesses did not receive the laying on of hands, and as far as i can recall the "ordination" of a deaconess was fundamentally different to that of holy orders
@@FatherMarty Canon 19 Concerning the Paulianists who have flown for refuge to the Catholic Church, it has been decreed that they must by all means be rebaptized; and if any of them who in past time have been numbered among their clergy should be found blameless and without reproach, let them be rebaptized and ordained by the bishop [whichever is most local] of the catholic church; but if the examination should discover them to be unfit, they ought to be deposed. Likewise in the case of their deaconesses, and generally in the case of those who have been enrolled among their clergy, let the same form be observed. And we mean by deaconesses such as have assumed the habit, but who, since they have no imposition of hands, are to be numbered only among the laity
The text of the rite in Barberini 336 is quite clear that the Deaconess did receive laying on of hands. But it's still a clearly distinct rite from the ordination of Male Deacons.
Regarding women's property in the British Empire, the reason that women did not have control of marital property is that they could not be held legally accountable for debts (any debts a woman took on would be her husband's debts). You see a similar situation with regard to charge accounts and the like in America before as well.
Exactly right, because prior to the latter part of the industrial revolution, economies were household-based, and legal contracts and taxes were paid by the one person not a household.
Chapters from the Video Description (and more) 0:00 - Intro 0:22 Presvytera Dr. Anysia Metrakos 1:09 "How would you describe the state of scholarship right now on women in the early church?" 1:49 - Scholarship on women in the early Church 4:19 Emperor Justinian. 5:25 - Women's rights in the Empire 5:55 Women in The Roman Empire 6:24 Enslaved Women, Freeborn Women. 6:38 Justinian's freedoms for women. 7:02 Legal Rights to Property Ownership. 8:34 Property with consent of a guardian. 9:07 Prohibiting unmarried persons from inheriting property. 10:00 1st Century Mothers had no legal rights over their children. Mothers were separated from their children if the father/husband died. 10:47 Constantine changes Roman laws regarding women 12:33 - Rise of monasticism + Joining Early Christian Monasteries. 13:04 St Anthony The Great, Desert Father, went to be away from everyone else. 13:37 St Anthony returned to Alexandria later on. 14:19 Urban Monasticism, Ascetics. 15:27 Wandering Begging Monks and how the Bishops had to respond to them. 16:56 The Council of Chalcedon 17:55 Asceticism particular to Christian Women 18:27 Women under Roman Law. Gifts between the bride and groom. 19:26 Patristic Rhetoric emphasizing mothers and daughters. 20:18 Daughter's ascetical life. 20:46 Dedicating a Daughter to Virginity and Poverty, to focus on the boys upbringing. 22:30 Fr Pontius Rupishev, 20th Century Priest in Lithuania, disciple of St John of Kronstadt. + 3 Sisters, maybe 3 Widows 25:48 Legal Protection for Female Monastics, for Runaway Slaves. 26:27 Buying your way out of slavery. 26:52 - Historical role of deaconesses 27:05 Women were not being ordained as Clergy. 27:40 Was there Ordination of Women? 28:06 + To assist Adult Baptisms + To assist birthgiving women. - 6th Century decline of Adult Baptisms resulted in a decline in total Deaconesses. 29:13 Permissions and Forbidden actions of Deaconesses. 29:45 Women behind The Iconostasis. 30:09 The Empress behind the altar. 31:29 Women lighting candles in the altar. 31:51 Deaconesses helped women. 32:14 Strict Qualifications for Who could become a Deaconess - 16 years old at minimum - Vow of Chastity 33:06 - Many Deaconesses were Wealthy, Well-Educated Widows. 33:33 - Under the authority of the local Bishop. 34:15 - Female leadership 34:34 "Well, we can't do without her, because she does this..." 35:07 5th Century Monastic Women 35:41 Calling The Bishop and Deaconesses for Baptisms. 36:14 Matrona 36:29 Susanna. 36:42 Communities of women. 37:06 Institutions of Social Life in The Church. 37:24 Young Adult Group. (YAL). 37:54 Charitable Work. 38:25 The Church kinda invents Charity. 38:45 (Ekonia? Economia?) 39:57 Matthew 25 40:07 - Saint Matrona 40:23 3 Iterations of Saint Matrona. 41:04 Byzantine Historiographical Documents. 41:23 Chalcedonian Christian. 42:06 Nuns dressed in Male Monastic Black Clothing. 42:42 Vocal Opponent of Heresy. 44:02 November 9th Feast Day. 44:46 Flipping the world upside down. The Theotokos. 45:36 St Mary of Egypt. 45:50 St. Matrona. She had a Male Spiritual Child, who became a Monk nextdoor to her monastery. 46:44 Spiritual Father of St. Matrona. 49:45 Fr Basianos. 47:52 Dressing in Black. 48:15 Public Defender of Orthodoxy. 49:15 Abusive Husband. 50:35 Insanity. Rabid, Unreasonable. 50:17 Unlivable Situation. 51:05 Martyrs and Venerable People. 51:30 It's not about checking off specific boxes, "this is what it means to be a holy person." it's accomplishing whatever is God has for that person. 52:24 Young Matrona left her abusive husband to go to live at the Monastery. 53:24 - Christianity's elevation of motherhood + Womens' pursuit of Holiness + Personal Freedom + Avenues for Life outside wife and mother + Inheritance used for Charity 54:50 The Title Theotokos bolstered the cultural status of Maternity. 55:40 Mary The Theotokos, Patron Saint of Constantinople. 56:25 - Coming work 56:38 Publishing in December? 57:08 Projects in the pipeline. 57:26 October 8th, October 2024, Holy Women of Byzantium in Houston Texas. 58:06 Fascinating stuff. Thank you Presbytera Dr. Anysia Metrakos
Females monastics still serve behind the Iconostasis to assist the Priest and cense the Church in the same manner as a Deacon does… ceasing the icons and the people. (St. Paisius, Arizona)…so all the uproar about how no females can ever go behind the Iconostasis isn’t true.
Saying that they cense like a deacon is a stretch. They use the katzion (belled hand censer) only at specific times when a deacon would not otherwise cense. In other words, it is a different type of censing, and at a different time. But your point is correct that someone who says women can never enter the altar under any circumstance doesn’t know what they are talking about.
I've never heard anyone argue women NEVER go behind the Iconostasis. The argument is they normatively don't and shoudln't be without express reason or permission.
@@justinbosl3972 I'm sure a few have said silly things out of ignorance. What the main point is unless their is express need or permission, not only women, but laity as a whole should not be going behind. Their is a reason baptized males are taken behind the alter.
@@dj393 because they have a great gift, but the opportunity to use it is limited. I speak as a woman who would have probably been a lot happier if I'd been born without academic aptitude and intellectual curiosity. If I'd been a boy - great! It would have meant something! But in truth, I'm not being remotely disingenuous or trying to stir up the pot, I don't know why God gives intellectual gifts to women. Sure, there will be a few women who can rise above their station as women by sheer force of personality, but for most of us whose minds are active and enquiring, we are in a lifetime of conflict and often real pain, to be honest.
@@drsuechaplin4290 I'm still not understanding this comment. If you are truly so intelligent, you will be good at nearly anything with minimal effort. You can learn to chant in a matter of months, (weeks with Kieven) raise lots of children in the Faith, translate writings and lives of saints, write icons, share the Gospel with those outside the church, teach love of Christ to children, create an exceptional website for your parish, memorize tons of prayers, etc. Stop complaining about the one thing you are not called to do, and instead focus on the hundreds you can. I'm sorry if this comes off as harsh, but it seems like you are blaming God for a gift He gave you to His glory.
@@seraphimwieber3893 oh my brother, I've truly tried to use my gifts for the good of the church. It has come to nothing. I don't think you appreciate how loaded the dice are. I have many skills and I have offered them in service to my parish. But these skills are academic, not practical. They don't sit well with what women are supposed to do. And it's true that I can grasp things very quickly and I have a lot of ideas! But my friend, you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think this gift is valued generally in the church when it resides in the body of a woman. There are women who can gain some recognition for their intellectual gifts, but they are rare and their success depends on an extraordinary force of personality. I've used my gifts in the secular sphere. I've risen to the top of my profession. In the church, I'm regarded with some weird level of suspicion and I'm not alone here. I know many highly academically gifted women whose talents actually stigmatise them within the church. So, like me, they focus on being lawyers, doctors, academics and engineers 🙍
I've always felt that due to the poisoning of western women with feminism, many women wouldn't be able to accept Orthodoxy. I noticed some of it in her discussion.
Thanks for this conversation. The stories around the women in the early church gathering into informal monastic communities reminds me of several modern examples. I think the same thing happened to the nuns under St. Nektarios and also to Elderess Makrina in her early life. Both were groups of pious young women who wanted to live a monastic life together and then found a spiritual father to help them as a group.
Also, we still have priests and even Abbots who have abbesses as their spiritual mothers.
I love that we can see the common life of the church "back then" and now.
what was not mentioned was that deaconesses did not receive the laying on of hands, and as far as i can recall the "ordination" of a deaconess was fundamentally different to that of holy orders
Do you have sources for this information? I've been trying to find some of those sources, and cannot find any.
@@FatherMarty see Canon 19 of Niceae
@@FatherMarty Canon 19
Concerning the Paulianists who have flown for refuge to the Catholic Church, it has been decreed that they must by all means be rebaptized; and if any of them who in past time have been numbered among their clergy should be found blameless and without reproach, let them be rebaptized and ordained by the bishop [whichever is most local] of the catholic church; but if the examination should discover them to be unfit, they ought to be deposed. Likewise in the case of their deaconesses, and generally in the case of those who have been enrolled among their clergy, let the same form be observed. And we mean by deaconesses such as have assumed the habit, but who, since they have no imposition of hands, are to be numbered only among the laity
The text of the rite in Barberini 336 is quite clear that the Deaconess did receive laying on of hands. But it's still a clearly distinct rite from the ordination of Male Deacons.
@HenryLeslieGraham thank you for the reference. It took me on a really fun side quest.
Excellent information. Thank you Father & Dr.Anysia for bringing this to us! ☦
Regarding women's property in the British Empire, the reason that women did not have control of marital property is that they could not be held legally accountable for debts (any debts a woman took on would be her husband's debts). You see a similar situation with regard to charge accounts and the like in America before as well.
Exactly right, because prior to the latter part of the industrial revolution, economies were household-based, and legal contracts and taxes were paid by the one person not a household.
Fascinating.
Отче❤ Целую ваши ноги❤ будьте пожалуйста в Раю❤ Желаю народу Америки Спасения❤ Храни вас Боже!
Chapters from the Video Description (and more)
0:00 - Intro
0:22 Presvytera Dr. Anysia Metrakos
1:09 "How would you describe the state of scholarship right now on women in the early church?"
1:49 - Scholarship on women in the early Church
4:19 Emperor Justinian.
5:25 - Women's rights in the Empire 5:55 Women in The Roman Empire
6:24 Enslaved Women, Freeborn Women.
6:38 Justinian's freedoms for women.
7:02 Legal Rights to Property Ownership.
8:34 Property with consent of a guardian.
9:07 Prohibiting unmarried persons from inheriting property.
10:00 1st Century Mothers had no legal rights over their children. Mothers were separated from their children if the father/husband died.
10:47 Constantine changes Roman laws regarding women
12:33 - Rise of monasticism
+ Joining Early Christian Monasteries.
13:04 St Anthony The Great, Desert Father, went to be away from everyone else.
13:37 St Anthony returned to Alexandria later on.
14:19 Urban Monasticism, Ascetics.
15:27 Wandering Begging Monks and how the Bishops had to respond to them.
16:56 The Council of Chalcedon
17:55 Asceticism particular to Christian Women
18:27 Women under Roman Law. Gifts between the bride and groom.
19:26 Patristic Rhetoric emphasizing mothers and daughters.
20:18 Daughter's ascetical life.
20:46 Dedicating a Daughter to Virginity and Poverty, to focus on the boys upbringing.
22:30 Fr Pontius Rupishev, 20th Century Priest in Lithuania, disciple of St John of Kronstadt.
+ 3 Sisters, maybe 3 Widows
25:48 Legal Protection for Female Monastics, for Runaway Slaves.
26:27 Buying your way out of slavery.
26:52 - Historical role of deaconesses
27:05 Women were not being ordained as Clergy.
27:40 Was there Ordination of Women?
28:06 + To assist Adult Baptisms + To assist birthgiving women.
- 6th Century decline of Adult Baptisms resulted in a decline in total Deaconesses.
29:13 Permissions and Forbidden actions of Deaconesses.
29:45 Women behind The Iconostasis.
30:09 The Empress behind the altar.
31:29 Women lighting candles in the altar.
31:51 Deaconesses helped women.
32:14 Strict Qualifications for Who could become a Deaconess
- 16 years old at minimum
- Vow of Chastity
33:06 - Many Deaconesses were Wealthy, Well-Educated Widows.
33:33 - Under the authority of the local Bishop.
34:15 - Female leadership
34:34 "Well, we can't do without her, because she does this..."
35:07 5th Century Monastic Women
35:41 Calling The Bishop and Deaconesses for Baptisms.
36:14 Matrona
36:29 Susanna.
36:42 Communities of women.
37:06 Institutions of Social Life in The Church.
37:24 Young Adult Group. (YAL).
37:54 Charitable Work.
38:25 The Church kinda invents Charity.
38:45 (Ekonia? Economia?)
39:57 Matthew 25
40:07 - Saint Matrona
40:23 3 Iterations of Saint Matrona.
41:04 Byzantine Historiographical Documents.
41:23 Chalcedonian Christian.
42:06 Nuns dressed in Male Monastic Black Clothing.
42:42 Vocal Opponent of Heresy.
44:02 November 9th Feast Day.
44:46 Flipping the world upside down. The Theotokos.
45:36 St Mary of Egypt.
45:50 St. Matrona. She had a Male Spiritual Child, who became a Monk nextdoor to her monastery.
46:44 Spiritual Father of St. Matrona. 49:45 Fr Basianos.
47:52 Dressing in Black.
48:15 Public Defender of Orthodoxy.
49:15 Abusive Husband. 50:35 Insanity. Rabid, Unreasonable.
50:17 Unlivable Situation.
51:05 Martyrs and Venerable People.
51:30 It's not about checking off specific boxes, "this is what it means to be a holy person." it's accomplishing whatever is God has for that person.
52:24 Young Matrona left her abusive husband to go to live at the Monastery.
53:24 - Christianity's elevation of motherhood
+ Womens' pursuit of Holiness
+ Personal Freedom
+ Avenues for Life outside wife and mother
+ Inheritance used for Charity
54:50 The Title Theotokos bolstered the cultural status of Maternity.
55:40 Mary The Theotokos, Patron Saint of Constantinople.
56:25 - Coming work
56:38 Publishing in December?
57:08 Projects in the pipeline.
57:26 October 8th, October 2024, Holy Women of Byzantium in Houston Texas.
58:06 Fascinating stuff. Thank you Presbytera Dr. Anysia Metrakos
Yeah I think we know laws don't apply to slaves. Justinian did that because his wife was the lowest.
Females monastics still serve behind the Iconostasis to assist the Priest and cense the Church in the same manner as a Deacon does… ceasing the icons and the people. (St. Paisius, Arizona)…so all the uproar about how no females can ever go behind the Iconostasis isn’t true.
Saying that they cense like a deacon is a stretch. They use the katzion (belled hand censer) only at specific times when a deacon would not otherwise cense. In other words, it is a different type of censing, and at a different time. But your point is correct that someone who says women can never enter the altar under any circumstance doesn’t know what they are talking about.
I've never heard anyone argue women NEVER go behind the Iconostasis. The argument is they normatively don't and shoudln't be without express reason or permission.
@@joseonwalking8666 As clergy, I’ve heard all sorts of things. 😂
@@justinbosl3972 I'm sure a few have said silly things out of ignorance. What the main point is unless their is express need or permission, not only women, but laity as a whole should not be going behind. Their is a reason baptized males are taken behind the alter.
I feel sorry for intelligent women like this in the church.
Why?
@@dj393 because they have a great gift, but the opportunity to use it is limited. I speak as a woman who would have probably been a lot happier if I'd been born without academic aptitude and intellectual curiosity. If I'd been a boy - great! It would have meant something! But in truth, I'm not being remotely disingenuous or trying to stir up the pot, I don't know why God gives intellectual gifts to women. Sure, there will be a few women who can rise above their station as women by sheer force of personality, but for most of us whose minds are active and enquiring, we are in a lifetime of conflict and often real pain, to be honest.
@@drsuechaplin4290 I'm still not understanding this comment. If you are truly so intelligent, you will be good at nearly anything with minimal effort. You can learn to chant in a matter of months, (weeks with Kieven) raise lots of children in the Faith, translate writings and lives of saints, write icons, share the Gospel with those outside the church, teach love of Christ to children, create an exceptional website for your parish, memorize tons of prayers, etc.
Stop complaining about the one thing you are not called to do, and instead focus on the hundreds you can.
I'm sorry if this comes off as harsh, but it seems like you are blaming God for a gift He gave you to His glory.
@@seraphimwieber3893 oh my brother, I've truly tried to use my gifts for the good of the church. It has come to nothing. I don't think you appreciate how loaded the dice are. I have many skills and I have offered them in service to my parish. But these skills are academic, not practical. They don't sit well with what women are supposed to do. And it's true that I can grasp things very quickly and I have a lot of ideas! But my friend, you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think this gift is valued generally in the church when it resides in the body of a woman. There are women who can gain some recognition for their intellectual gifts, but they are rare and their success depends on an extraordinary force of personality.
I've used my gifts in the secular sphere. I've risen to the top of my profession. In the church, I'm regarded with some weird level of suspicion and I'm not alone here. I know many highly academically gifted women whose talents actually stigmatise them within the church. So, like me, they focus on being lawyers, doctors, academics and engineers 🙍
Lee Jason Hall Timothy Johnson Edward
I've always felt that due to the poisoning of western women with feminism, many women wouldn't be able to accept Orthodoxy. I noticed some of it in her discussion.