some people dont have syringes :) I use the pump from hand gel, i use a bit of card make hole in it and push the tube through that will keep to keep the pump square and flush to the tube, then i measure 100mm underside of card and cut the tube, over fill my shocks and let the dog see the rabbit and pump pump squirt the fork oil into bottle :)
When I was doing forks regularly (working in a Dealership) I used a small diameter tube just like the the one you have but I used a hand vacuum pump with a reservoir bottle in between tubing and the pump springs in out makes no difference to the way it works. Has long as you dount use a string in distance without the spring in or vice versa. Good video! The hand vacuum pump is a handy tool that can help with diagnosing several components.
Brilliant, simple accurate method this subject always scared me this video has educated me I will have a go myself now as youv shown it's not rocket science as I was led to believe by others..keep up the great channel...cheers matt
matt you need to block the bottom of stainless tube of with solder and drill a small hole in the side of the tubing then the level of oil will be more accurate i use a air brake bleeder to do this it can only suck oil in from the side pal to stop the vacuum affect and sucking more oil out than intended
Good video. Theirs a problem with syringes, I've bought loads, reusable ones, to do this, over the years. You use them once or twice, and the rubber tit on the end of the plunger swells up and then you need the strength of Goliath to to draw the syringe. I need to find ones that don't have this problem. Another way to measure air gap is to use a cable tie because the serrations stop the oil creeping up and throwing your measurement off. All you do is straiten it and cut it a bit longer than you need . Then use a pair of cutters to nip the side of the tie, to mark the measurement that you want. The only problem with this method is if you over fill, you need to remove some oil out of your fork, but It's better than trying to use a ruler etc.
Worth mentioning that you need to bleed the air out of the hydraulic system before measuring oil level, Either by exercising the chrome tube up and down in a damper rod fork 10/20 times or exercising the damping rod up and down in a cartridge fork 10/20 times Also the level is measured when the fork is fully compressed
great vid , I've got a gen 2 hayabusa and I need to do the fork seals, the service manual says 95mm from top tube to oil level but everywhere else and on TH-cam vids people seem to be doing 120mm , and if I type it in on Google it says 110mm so what is the best to go with do you think as I don't want to get it wrong , the manual does say compress the tube and check oil level without the spring , i ride two's up with the wife just normal road riding, any advice would be great . thanks 👍🏼
On an old moped fork that I had no clue about the amount, and previous guy filled it all the way up which made it hydro lock I opened the top and compressed it all the way and then sucked out like 50-100mm from the top and that worked fine.
More accurate than my dipstick method. Will you be touching on use of Hydrophilic oil over Fork oil? Have used it in the past as it's constant viscosity and i can more or less guarantee that viscosity from manufacturer to manufacturer. have used ISO 68 in place of 20W and ISO 32 for 10W. Also cheaper than "fork" oil.
Do you think it is Ok to use this method with the forks still in the bike? Because even if the bike is completely upright the forks are on an angle from the yokes to the wheel.
If you took the middle of the tube then yes, but you'd have to be in the middle. You could calculate the angle of the oil, which would be the angle of the forks but from the horizontal and not the vertical
Some manuals call for a volume of fork oil, which is easy to measure, but you are not going to get every drop of the old oil out and with every change you will have a higher volume of oil. That is, unless it’s a full flush with kerosene which makes for an accurate change.
The Workshop Yeah, I had the fork bodies on my old GT250 anodised Candy red to match the rest of it. Luckily my mate was doing an apprenticeship at the local anodisers. Looked brilliant at the time but this was early 80s. As they were stripped and cleaned for that I used my mum's measuring jug to fill them up. Worked well but had to wash it before she came home !
Just a question Matt. Would there be a calculation on the angle if topping up or removing oil in situation? Or asking as both forks are equally filled and balanced via this method would it matter if calculation from manual is within say 10% of cc advised.
At some point I'd l9ve you to take a look at the Honda anti dive system from the 80's. Rebuilding a set of forks that use different components in each and different oil levels in both was confusing as fuck. That tool/method is genius btw. Stealing that. Have you seen the Ohlins tool for rebuilding forks that fills with a premeasured amount of oil under pressure to get it exactly right?
Did you see Daves response in the comments ? TBH I think what he is getting at is if the tyre is too hot to keep your hand on then its fine but if it just feels kinda warm then its over-inflated; probably based on the threshold for pain due to heat. Not really scientific obviously, but I suppose he was saying it is somewhere to start for guys without the gear (although the infrared thermometers are not really that expensive...a cheapo one will be plenty good enough and definitely better than the palm of your hand)
Without a manual, how would one figure out how much oil forks need? For example I got a 125cc sm with both forks leaking since I got it, can't find a manual for it and the specified mechanic for my bike says to put in as much as I need until I get the stiffness I want.
Those are excellent points, but remember, once the air is worked out, the actual measurement isn’t as critical as you might think. On most adult sized dirt bikes, 90-100mm air gap will get you in a safe range to avoid bottoming out on the one hand, and hydrolocking on the other. Your CR250 will be fine. But you might need to add more or remove some to suit your riding style.
You don't, the manufacturer does. You don't have access to all the information you'd need like: Oil Flow rate Hydrostatic pressure of the oil Viscosity index Harmonic spring rate include oil drag...
I use a plastic horse insemination tube. Fits to the syringe perfectly, just cut it a bit as it is too long! Just go scrounge one off of your local horse-vet! My colleagues in the UK are going to kill me for this.
Where it goes tits up.If one leg has .1 more or less,would that be a problem?Just interested.Even a retard like me know how to level it out using that trick,but if one just chuck in quantity using eye-sight,how would one feel if the difference is significant in the two fork arms?
It depends on the exact forks used, but some USDs are filled without the spring in place and some are. But the method is the same. The Z900 for example gives you 434 ml of oil, and also gives you the oil level as follows Oil Level (fully compressed without spring) 99 mm +-2 (from the top of the outer tube) From the Service manual
Does oil height really matter? For example my bikes takes 150cc(ml) in each leg , I buy a bottle of 500ML ..fill one leg until bottle shows 350ML and pump the leg twenty times to get any air out .Then do the same to the other leg until bottle shows 200 ML. At the end I fill an extra 10CC on each leg because I like it more firm. Anything wrong with this process ?? thanks
Stupid Fork Oil Questions: (From Canada if that explains anything). Are all fork oils sythetic? Many of the bottles here don't make it obvious. (Do I care?)
I commend you on your tutorial Matt, excellent presentation and an effective use equipment. But I will just stick to my old method of guesstimating with a cheap jug from the local supermarket 🤫 probably over filling them but not by a great deal. It’s not like I’m racing. Thanks for my early evening entertainment. 👍
Looking at those plastic wheels in the top of the shot, I'm guessing he's going to copy DB customs tube roller. Pro Tip: remember to put the plug in the bottom of the fork BEFORE you try topping it up. If you don't you're left thinking "Fucking hell, how much is this taking (Fork oil is not cheap) until you notice the growing puddle of oil. Knob head.
How will it "siphon if you do it too quickly" ? ! As soon as the oil is below the end of the tube, it can't draw oil anymore. Come on Lad, thing 'ead on ;-)
@@dirtygarageguy So, you are saying that a siphon will still work even when the end of the system is clear of the fluid and open to the atmosphere. Please make that your very next Demo.
![[[OFFICIAL MV]] เอิ้นขวัญให้อ้าย- อ๊ะอาย สกุณาพร | ค่ายเพลงเป็นหนึ่ง](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/83x6L3X3qh0/mqdefault.jpg)
That's the sort of tutorial the young chaps and chapesses need, feckin well done demonstrator man👍🏻
some people dont have syringes :)
I use the pump from hand gel, i use a bit of card make hole in it and push the tube through that will keep to keep the pump square and flush to the tube, then i measure 100mm underside of card and cut the tube, over fill my shocks and let the dog see the rabbit and pump pump squirt the fork oil into bottle :)
Hey that's a good idea! 👍
When I was doing forks regularly (working in a Dealership) I used a small diameter tube just like the the one you have but I used a hand vacuum pump with a reservoir bottle in between tubing and the pump springs in out makes no difference to the way it works. Has long as you dount use a string in distance without the spring in or vice versa.
Good video! The hand vacuum pump is a handy tool that can help with diagnosing several components.
Brilliant, simple accurate method this subject always scared me this video has educated me I will have a go myself now as youv shown it's not rocket science as I was led to believe by others..keep up the great channel...cheers matt
👍 Great tutorial,
Over the years I've rebuilt 100s of fork legs both usd and rwu and always use this method with a tool from motion pro
Do you know how much oil you need to put?
matt you need to block the bottom of stainless tube of with solder and drill a small hole in the side of the tubing then the level of oil will be more accurate i use a air brake bleeder to do this it can only suck oil in from the side pal to stop the vacuum affect and sucking more oil out than intended
Thats why I said slowly...
thank you from the bottom of my heart, for teaching me fork oil!!!!
This is the only method I use when replacing fork oil, bought a tool for about £15. Works 100% of the time
£15 = robbed
Good video. Theirs a problem with syringes, I've bought loads, reusable ones, to do this, over the years. You use them once or twice, and the rubber tit on the end of the plunger swells up and then you need the strength of Goliath to to draw the syringe. I need to find ones that don't have this problem. Another way to measure air gap is to use a cable tie because the serrations stop the oil creeping up and throwing your measurement off. All you do is straiten it and cut it a bit longer than you need . Then use a pair of cutters to nip the side of the tie, to mark the measurement that you want. The only problem with this method is if you over fill, you need to remove some oil out of your fork, but It's better than trying to use a ruler etc.
Worth mentioning that you need to bleed the air out of the hydraulic system before measuring oil level,
Either by exercising the chrome tube up and down in a damper rod fork 10/20 times or exercising the damping rod up and down in a cartridge fork 10/20 times
Also the level is measured when the fork is fully compressed
Worth mentioning when doing a video demo. This is just about the measurement
how to get the sucking pipe/measuring device in to measure the air gap if the fork is compressed and the spring is inside of it? Thanks a lot
"lets put that dangerous shit back"
SUBBED IMEDIATELY AFTER HEARING THAT XD
Thanks very much for the video. it always puzzled me brain on how to do it properly . No I can sort it 👍🏍️🛵
great vid , I've got a gen 2 hayabusa and I need to do the fork seals, the service manual says 95mm from top tube to oil level but everywhere else and on TH-cam vids people seem to be doing 120mm , and if I type it in on Google it says 110mm so what is the best to go with do you think as I don't want to get it wrong , the manual does say compress the tube and check oil level without the spring , i ride two's up with the wife just normal road riding, any advice would be great . thanks 👍🏼
Fine stainless tube? You're making wind chimes you old softie.
This is exactly what i needed! Thanks!
10:51Let's do a demo, waiting for the goat to do its bit,😂
Unicorn tears, my kids are now crying as they think you made it cry... 😂
Great video man very educational i def learned something off it
On an old moped fork that I had no clue about the amount, and previous guy filled it all the way up which made it hydro lock I opened the top and compressed it all the way and then sucked out like 50-100mm from the top and that worked fine.
More accurate than my dipstick method. Will you be touching on use of Hydrophilic oil over Fork oil? Have used it in the past as it's constant viscosity and i can more or less guarantee that viscosity from manufacturer to manufacturer. have used ISO 68 in place of 20W and ISO 32 for 10W. Also cheaper than "fork" oil.
i have old honda super cub and i have stainless straw.
i think, i can make that tools.
very smart diy tutorial dude.
Do you think it is Ok to use this method with the forks still in the bike? Because even if the bike is completely upright the forks are on an angle from the yokes to the wheel.
If you took the middle of the tube then yes, but you'd have to be in the middle. You could calculate the angle of the oil, which would be the angle of the forks but from the horizontal and not the vertical
Its a good question, worth a shop chat I think
Read the manual and follow the procedure 🤷🏼♂️
Some manuals call for a volume of fork oil, which is easy to measure, but you are not going to get every drop of the old oil out and with every change you will have a higher volume of oil. That is, unless it’s a full flush with kerosene which makes for an accurate change.
There are no manuals for some vehicle - particularly obsolete or foreign made (China).
Well that's the universe telling you something
My Tuono V4 has slightly different levels in each fork, one's rebound the other compression.
Lol yes some do, but all oil is for damping
@@dirtygarageguy Just being a pedant Matt ;-)
Damnit...ya had me googling unicorn tears....gotta plead ignorant on that.
LMAO!
How about if I have not a clue where my fork is from(project bobber) how much oil I need then ?
You have to find a fork that's similar in length, diameter and bike weight
@@dirtygarageguy Thanks a mill man!!
How do you feel about painting forks? I want to do the forks on a couple of bike and I've been wanting a new look.
If you mean fork bodies then no problem, but take the forks apart to do a proper job
The Workshop Yeah, I had the fork bodies on my old GT250 anodised Candy red to match the rest of it. Luckily my mate was doing an apprenticeship at the local anodisers. Looked brilliant at the time but this was early 80s. As they were stripped and cleaned for that I used my mum's measuring jug to fill them up. Worked well but had to wash it before she came home !
Great vid Matt very useful 👍
Just a question Matt. Would there be a calculation on the angle if topping up or removing oil in situation? Or asking as both forks are equally filled and balanced via this method would it matter if calculation from manual is within say 10% of cc advised.
At some point I'd l9ve you to take a look at the Honda anti dive system from the 80's. Rebuilding a set of forks that use different components in each and different oil levels in both was confusing as fuck.
That tool/method is genius btw. Stealing that. Have you seen the Ohlins tool for rebuilding forks that fills with a premeasured amount of oil under pressure to get it exactly right?
Did you see Daves response in the comments ?
TBH I think what he is getting at is if the tyre is too hot to keep your hand on then its fine but if it just feels kinda warm then its over-inflated; probably based on the threshold for pain due to heat.
Not really scientific obviously, but I suppose he was saying it is somewhere to start for guys without the gear (although the infrared thermometers are not really that expensive...a cheapo one will be plenty good enough and definitely better than the palm of your hand)
"Did you see Daves response in the comments ?"
- No I didn't, still doesn't make any fucking sense, and developing a habit made me laugh...
@@dirtygarageguy are mommy and daddy fighting ? hahahaha
Without a manual, how would one figure out how much oil forks need?
For example I got a 125cc sm with both forks leaking since I got it, can't find a manual for it and the specified mechanic for my bike says to put in as much as I need until I get the stiffness I want.
Answered in the next video
What abt using the largest syringe you can find.. i used a 60ml syringe 5times to get 300ml
What if the internal volume of each tube is different? What is the more important value, fluid height or fluid volume?
Thats what manuals are for. Its not a guessing game
Outstanding video +1 sub
당신은 천재 입니다 .
Those are excellent points, but remember, once the air is worked out, the actual measurement isn’t as critical as you might think. On most adult sized dirt bikes, 90-100mm air gap will get you in a safe range to avoid bottoming out on the one hand, and hydrolocking on the other. Your CR250 will be fine. But you might need to add more or remove some to suit your riding style.
I have boxer bm 150 and I need to size of oil for both front shock absorber
By the time you're done bikes will float on a cushion of air!
How do I determine the right millimeters to set in the tool? For any fork
You don't, the manufacturer does. You don't have access to all the information you'd need like:
Oil Flow rate
Hydrostatic pressure of the oil
Viscosity index
Harmonic spring rate include oil drag...
Depends on weight of you and your bike
'hi sebastian!'
This procedure is called 'measuring the air gap' and you can buy the specific kit needed for doing it for £15 on ebay.
Measuring the air gap? LMAO! That's not a name, thats just a description, and my 'kit is far cheaper than £15
how much oil is put in the fork at the gillera stalker 50?thank you
Look in the manual... thats what I'd have to do
I use a plastic horse insemination tube. Fits to the syringe perfectly, just cut it a bit as it is too long! Just go scrounge one off of your local horse-vet! My colleagues in the UK are going to kill me for this.
btw:what is the limit where things go tits up with different levels in the two fork legs?
Limit?
Where it goes tits up.If one leg has .1 more or less,would that be a problem?Just interested.Even a retard like me know how to level it out using that trick,but if one just chuck in quantity using eye-sight,how would one feel if the difference is significant in the two fork arms?
How would this work for usd forks? Ive had 2 bikes with usd forks and the top fork cap has to be on or the stanchion will fall out of the upper fork
It depends on the exact forks used, but some USDs are filled without the spring in place and some are. But the method is the same. The Z900 for example gives you 434 ml of oil, and also gives you the oil level as follows
Oil Level (fully compressed without spring)
99 mm +-2 (from the top of the outer tube)
From the Service manual
The Workshop fully compressed makes sense, so ill stop using the measuring jug method now 👍
Does oil height really matter? For example my bikes takes 150cc(ml) in each leg , I buy a bottle of 500ML ..fill one leg until bottle shows 350ML and pump the leg twenty times to get any air out .Then do the same to the other leg until bottle shows 200 ML. At the end I fill an extra 10CC on each leg because I like it more firm.
Anything wrong with this process ?? thanks
Air above the oil acts like a spring. If you have different levels in each fork then the springs will act differently.
Also adding extra oil doesn't make it firmer.
@@dirtygarageguy Isn't bottle supposed to be accurate ? Why they would have different oil level ...I don't get it sorry .
@@dirtygarageguy Doesnt more oil make suspension not so bouncy?
No the bottles aren't accurate. And no more oil doesn't effect the spring rate.
Hang about I’ve just done my beta 300evoss trials bike forks and they had different levels of oil in each?????
Just checked me manual, yep 65mm in the right and 125mm in the left, suppose beta are weird haha
Returned from watching the full video, wish I had thought of this or seen this before hand, measuring 125mm down the tube was a fuck about with a rule
I did my fork oil other night in garage I used Stella I think because no way can I drink 18 cans .
Stupid Fork Oil Questions: (From Canada if that explains anything).
Are all fork oils sythetic? Many of the bottles here don't make it obvious. (Do I care?)
Where is Issac ? Why is he not hanging around anymore ?
Because i live 220 miles away from him now... lol
I commend you on your tutorial Matt, excellent presentation and an effective use equipment.
But I will just stick to my old method of guesstimating with a cheap jug from the local supermarket 🤫 probably over filling them but not by a great deal.
It’s not like I’m racing.
Thanks for my early evening entertainment. 👍
Red bull out earl grey in.what next ?doilys?
Tea cozzies
@@dirtygarageguy good god,you will be wearing slacks and a cardigan next.
I only watched this because I had fork oil else to do.
Just got to the point dude!
is there a way to put correct oil level if you have no data ?
‘Dripping’ against yourself? +1
i cleand my forks with a card now they are stiffer is that normal? they are upside down forks
With a card?
@@dirtygarageguy a thin clear silicone card m8 i cleang the fork seals i did it on the bike , i did not open the fork
Stiffer doesn't sound good....
Looking at those plastic wheels in the top of the shot, I'm guessing he's going to copy DB customs tube roller.
Pro Tip: remember to put the plug in the bottom of the fork BEFORE you try topping it up. If you don't you're left thinking "Fucking hell, how much is this taking (Fork oil is not cheap) until you notice the growing puddle of oil.
Knob head.
How will it "siphon if you do it too quickly" ? ! As soon as the oil is below the end of the tube, it can't draw oil anymore. Come on Lad, thing 'ead on ;-)
Yes it can and does that's what siphoning is... which is another video
@@dirtygarageguy So, you are saying that a siphon will still work even when the end of the system is clear of the fluid and open to the atmosphere. Please make that your very next Demo.
No. I'm not saying that. I'm saying if you draw the fluid fast then it will draw more than it should, through the action of siphoning.
| does not compute..
I want to see how DB Repairs would do this job🤔
That's a great idea, I'll see if I can get the DBR boys to do a vid
@@dirtygarageguy Should be entertaining at the least.
Potassium permanganate?
No
Gentian violet. (Pretty sure, looks like it.)
Raises more questions than answers though...
I prefer potassium perchlorate.
dunno mate what comes out, goes back in. unless i just rebuilt it,then manual.
never thought of doing it that way when i have overfilled somehow- will from now
--didn't need to show your big enema syringe though
i got bored after 2 min. i'll search another video.
365
Очень долго, и спасибо =)
1
Yay! Lets celebrate!
after 2 min. of BS I just lost interest.
To much yapping get on with it worse than my wife