JOHN, finally an explanation of the interaction of the club, ball, and path. WOW!. Thanks for the detail explanation , the use of alignment rods and props to show what happens. The adjustment is only a few degrees depending on what type of shot one wants to work. Now I SEE. Went out last night and put the knowledge to the test. Using a 52 degree wedge hit not 1, 2, or 3, but 10 draws in a row between 80-100 yards. THANK YOU for sharing!
Nate, you are correct. However, the world of golf has no idea what D Plane, of which I am very well aware--I am a Trackman University Master--means whatsoever. This video was not made for a professional, but for a golfer wanting to gain a better understanding. I think the point gets across fairly well in the video, as so many viewers have mentioned.
I been hacking away for about five years and your visual lesson was very helpful and understandable I finally feel like I'm starting to play real golf, tks alot
This may be the BEST golf video on youtube!!! Best explanation of ball flight laws I've seen (neat: 3 club faces combined with 3 paths give you 9 possible shots)! Added to S&T, this makes a golfer formidable.
I really liked this video. It is one of the clearest explanations of how the club face and the club path affect the flight of the ball. Most of your videos are very easy to understand. I believe these are going to help me improve my golf game. thanks Dean Ishmael
Mr. Dunigan. Great job on explaining proper ball flight laws. The PGA of America should be shaking their heads. They have taught thousands of teachers the wrong info. for years, including me, and have confused millions of golfers around the world. Maybe this will help increase the number of players and increase rounds played. I'll spread the word of this video.
@avancios for the pull-slice you would have to swing outside-to-inside and with an closed club face in relation to the target line (creating the left side launch) but with an open club face in relation to the swing path or impact angle (creating the right side spin). Both methods are taught by professionals and are considered a fade. Please correct me if there is only one real fade by definition.
For all the times Ive asked this question, this is the first time i got a detailed answer. Just yesterday I tried every possible swing borderlining on ridiculous and STILL couldnt hit a draw/hook. It was either straight or right.Im really hopind your advice helps me. That being said, i whole heartedly appreciate you taking the time to helping aspiring golfers such as myself
Great video. I have found swinging slow and doing half swings at the range the best method of changing both face and path, don't worry about length at all just getting the ball to different directions other than my usual slice was awesome.
hey John. I know this video was put up like 7 years ago. But I wish this was showed to every single golfer the first day they pick up a club. It took me 7 years of slicing the ball, then two swings after someone explained these exact principles to me to finally be able to shape the ball. FWIW I don't believe in hitting straight shots ever. I think most people will find it much much much easier to put the ball on a target if they hit a slight draw/fade/ whatever they are most comfortable doing. Appreciate the video though.
@PJRGOLF08 What tape are you listening to? He said the ball direction came off the face and the curvature was due to the differential to the face and the path. He did a great job explaining this!
awesome awesome video. i've never truly understood how to curve shots and so tried to avoid it. can't wait to get on the range to practice these concepts.
also ball can start well outside the triangle of the path and face lines. Face square, path slightly right. Ball can start LEFT of where face is pointing at separation.
@fridrikgolf sure it will finish to the right, but it will also start (slightly) to the right. You won't be able to see this without high speed cameras. It's the same with billiard balls. If one ball hits another on its side, the other ball will start in the angle that was normal (perpendicular) to the collision or impact (and receives fractional side spin, due to minimal friction)
@fridrikgolf no, I didn't, but I see that we need to get the relations clear. I am always speaking in relations to the target line. So if you swing square or inside-to-inside and with an open club face (open in relation to the target line), the ball will start right and curve right (push-slice). If you swing outside-to-inside and with an square club face (square to the target line), the ball will start straight and curve right (straight-slice).
Great video! Where can I get that attachment that you used to demonstrate the face angle? Also, how does flipping/ loss of flying wedge affect the face angle? Thanks.
@imsuprised actually, you're mistaken. A straight push would mean that your clubface is pointed to the right at impact and your true path is the SAME direction as your face is pointed. If you were to square your face to the target at impact with your current path, you would actually hit overdraws with the ball starting essentially at the target and drawing to the left of it. Your face does need to be closed some - open to the TARGET but closed to the PATH. Push draw.
I have a question for you: If you think the path is responsible for the direction (x- & y-angles) where the ball starts, how do you explain that the ball doesn't also start into the direction of the z-angle (i.e. launch angle). The club face hits the ball normally (ideally) on its way down (before the low point) - according to you the ball starting direction is completely dependent on the club path. The ball doesn't know and doesn't differentiate between the three dimensions.
@pgampro I thought hitting down would move the club inward or left of target line through impact. Could you please explain how hitting more downward would move the club outward. Thanks
D plane Doppler radar has redefined this information because as the angle of attack is constantly changing in a two plane motion (downward towards the ground level, to strike a ball forward of your side positioning). 70% of initial ball path will be towards where the the face is pointing at impact, and the swing path at impact has a 30% effect of the launch. The path has little effect in relationship but does influence. It produces the side spin that creates the curvature itself. If you strike a ball with any downward angle of attack, it strikes the ball prior to pointing at the target, so it launches right of target. To overcome that you must align your body to the left at address to have ANY chance of ever hitting the ball straight towards an intended target. The truth is where in the bottom of the swing when you strike the ball determines if it starts left, right or straight at the target itself. Is is about whether you are hitting down or not. So a driver you want a slightly upward strike, so now the club has closed to the target at impact (past level so club head is now moving upward inside of target line) , so you must set up more to the right at address to over come that point of the arc movement. Check out the explanation of the so called D plane.. it is a bit more informative in my opinion.
Mr. Dunigan,when i set up to hit a draw,i close my stance relative to the target line,but i keep my club face angle perpendicular to target line.so i believe i am swinging inside to out on the downswing.I am left handed,and if i have struck the ball well,it will start out left of the target and curve back toward the target.so it seems to me that the initial flight path of the ball was primarily set up by my setup ,closed to the target,and not the clubface angle.what am i missing?thanks john
tiger said it is all in the release IN MY SWING it starts where my path is going and turns to face angle i bet this happens in tigers swing too. there is a lot of variables in this that goes unseen by some,,, but if you want to draw it i would not try a outside to inside swing path and if you want to cut it i would not have a inside to outside swing path if you want to hit it straight be sure to swing straight down the line with the face square thanks hitmanhawky
i think the ball sticks to the clubhead for a fraction of a second so this pulls or pushes the ball to the swing path line not face aim line for starting i think if you had vaseiline on the face it might start where the face is aimed but in my book it starts where the swing path is going and then curves to the face alignment, the spin comes from friction and the friction pulls or pushes the ball to swing path line for starting direction, 100 mph clubhead speed it will start on swing path period
This was misunderstood and therefore taught wrong for 130 years.. Only the physicists understood ball flight from clubface/swing path interaction. Trackman helped the average person understand this. This gentleman is explaining it correctly.
Hitting down more does affect the amount of inside-out. If the club is traveling more downward, it is also going to be moving more outward. That's why you can see someone like Mark Calcavecchia throw his divot well left of the target, yet hit only a slight fade with his irons.
@avancios If you want to fade the ball there are two ways. The first is the easy method mentioned above, the straight-slice. It requires you to stand open to the target. The second is the difficult method, the pull-slice (see next comment)
Hi jon.. I have the official instructional publication of the us golf teachers federation and under the ball flight laws section of the book they explain the clubhead path provides initial direction and the club face angle at impact provides the curve of the ball towards the end of its flight.. Im a bit confused
@PJRGOLF08 thanks for your thoughts, i have played at a very high level for 25 years and strike it as well as anyone, i know with my swing it is how i discribed it . i can set up a test to show almost anything i want on ball flight ,,if it is done on a machine and with clubs that fit, trust me it will start where the path is going and curve to the face angle. it is funny but jack nicklaus and tiger think the way i do . but we all three have great swings i guess that is what it takes good day hm
I know these masterclass series with Luke Donald. It doesn't matter what says, but what he thinks he does. He's been playing since he was 7 and back then teaching pros only taught it the old way. Just because he is saying he aims the club face to the target and his body left of the target doesn't mean the club face is square to target at impact. It is not as easy as that. Ball position and wrist rotation have a major share in closing the club face at impact.
@imsuprised yes, that would be my advice: Have a target - whether it be the flag or a ridge - and dial in your flight so that your ball should never cross the line [overdraw or overfade]. Makes misses more manageable. Good luck! Let 'us' know how it goes.
Folks, when the spin axis tilts, does it tilt to the side? Listen, I KNOW it's spin axis tilt. After about 25000 lessons, I am certain that average golfers, those who we depend upon to keep the game afloat, understand much more readily the notion of sidespin as opposed to "tilted spin axis." That's why I use that description.
IF you check high speed camera footage, square face and path at impact is ALWAYS a hook. These ball flight laws are old, don't take into account rate of closure and many other things.
Mr. Dunigan, I agree with some other user's comments... I'll respectfully say that this video should be updated with correct information or be taken off completely. For example, the ball is not "rubbed with slice side spin". TrackMan data clearly shows otherwise...
@Excaliburxxxxxx This info is not correct, the intial direction is not affected by speed. Have a look on the trackman website for more info. The initial direction varies between 65% in favour of face up to 90% in favour of face depending on face rough ness, ball type, mositure etc but virtually not at all to do with speed. If you use the approximation that the face is 75% responsible for initial direction you wont go too far wrong. :)
Sorry....but the golf ball does not have side spin. The golf ball has back spin. Its the tilt of that back spin that makes the ball hook or slice. If the tilt is to the left the ball will hook, if the tilt is right the ball will slice. You can think of it like an airplane flying straight away, if the left wing then drops below the right wing the plane will bank to the left( hook) and if the right wing then drop below the left the plane will bank right.(slice). Apart from that this video is quite good.
No the video is correct ball flight laws have been re corrected since high speed camera clubface dictates for 85% the takeoff i would have used a half black half white ball to demonstrate spin though
To all: Thanks for the kind comments. I have a strong request for you. Play around with the face angle. On the way back to the top, on the way down. Try holding the club with a closed face (strong) grip and an open face (weak) grip. Learn by playing. Don't judge. Just try something and see what happens. That's how you REALLY learn, not by just having someone like me tell you what to do. John
I think that It would help to show the feet placement change for an inside out path vs a outside in path. For me the swing path is is best controlled by the stance alignment to the swing path. It may be that the pros can control the path of the swing from a square alignment to the target line, for me that is too complex. KIS I hope this is the easiest way to control the the ball spin.
Great explanation. The PGA of America dropped the ball on this one. Homer Kelley got it right 40 years ago! I still have a tough time convincing players about this. Ignorance executing its habit!
John I'm not sure that I understood you properly The flight of a golf ball is determined by Newtonian physics always has been and unless technology changes to negate that, it ALWAYS will! Club head path ALWAYS determines the initial ball direction and the angle of the club face to that path determines the side spin put on the ball...Therefore a shot hit with the club head path that goes straight down the target line with a club face that is square to the path will go straight down the target line....if the face is closed it will go straight and then left...if it is open then it will go straight and then right........If the club head path is right of target line the ball will start right with the same effects based on the club face angles.......the same applies to a club head path that is left of target line. That is why a slice starts out left and then moves right......How far right it moves through the air will be determined by the amount the angle and the loft of the club face That is call VECTOR forces and it is a LAW of motion!
Paul EJ, a very incorrect statement. You need to consider the eccentric forces on the ball due to rate of closure. Face and path square can mean ball starting 6 degrees left!
You're dead wrong. The clubface controls 80-85% of the starting direction. Try a dead straight putting stroke with your putter open 45 degrees and see where the ball starts
rackum44 Sorry Rackum but you have been lead down the same wrong path I was for years. We were given wrong info that was based on beliefs and not science. Trackman and Flightscope use science to prove that our beliefs were incorrect. Go to the range, open your club slightly to the target line and swing on an inside to out path (feel like you are swing to 1st base, not target) and watch the ball start right and then curve back to target. Thats a real draw.
The D Plane, D is for descriptive, is a simple description of the plane formed by the club path and the face. It was a very important understanding for sure. The ball climbs up the D plane then will curve right of left depending upon the face relative to the path.
if you want the ball to start right of target and draw you need to have a swing path inside to out, if you want it to start left of target and cut you need a swing path that is outside to in if you want it to start right at it yep a straight down the line path,,,, now you throw in 3 different face angles and 3 different releases, straght , draw , and cut release,wow it is hard to understand use draw release with cut shot plan wow better understanding we have easier it is.
Believe what you want, but what you say doesn't follow any logical physical laws. I will still advance my view and that of up-to-date golf instruction. As for the results of TrackMan, the ball will start between 80 and 90 percent of the angle where the club face is oriented and only 10 to 20 percent of the angle of the club path. And this is just because of the ball's compression right before separation, when the ball receives side spin from impact resilience.
When the spin axis is tilted, the ball curves, right? Which way is it tilted? Yes I realize it's not side-spin, but the spin axis is tilted to the side!
hitting a golf ball is like driving a vehicle backwards. Because you are working on the back of the ball things work the reverse of what the human brain is wired to comprehend.
All sounds so simple until you actually start hitting some balls.Any twitch in your muscular system could put you off. Impossible to hit a dead straight shot
Is that your way of hiding your hindsight or are you in no way able to change personal convictions? Then just say you keep your opinion and none of your "let's agree on my opinion". I didn't come here to spout off or show "just found knowledge" - I just wanted to back up pgampro and give reasonable and objective arguments as well as proof. I never wanted to impose my opinion on you, but offer additional understanding. I'm sorry if you felt defensive.
Incorrect there is no such thing as "side spin" only back spin! The reason a ball "slices,fades,hooks & draws" is due to the axis of the backspin rotation! Fact
Sorry John but it sounds like you don't have much faith in the inteligent's of the average golfer. I think I just explained spin axis in a very simple and understandable way and, hell, I'm just a caddie. I've used this explanation with a hundred amateur golfers over the last few years and not one of them didnt understand it. If your going to go as far as trying to explain the physics of the D plane to people why fudge on the scientific explanation on what makes the ball curve? I don't think anyone is served by obscuring a simple truth
You've got that backwards. The face directions influences about 80-85% of the starting direction of the ball. Path is about the other 15-20%. Trackman and high-speed video have absolutely proven this beyond a shadow of a doubt. Search this on TH-cam: eEHiY5iv5u4. Best high-speed vid I've seen. Physics doesn't lie.
Well, if she sick, I pray that your not so conceited to think that it's you and your 25000 leasons that's going to save her. The great game has been around for 300 plus years and will be a round long after you and I are finished with this peeing contest.
John, I'm a big fan of you and your teaching, but not on this video. I realize it was posted in 2009 and because of this outdate information, I would repost with the proper corrections or elimate it altogether. TrackMan would help to clear up this miss-information.
I think this video shows it should be taught by every golf teaching professional. Thank you John.
JOHN, finally an explanation of the interaction of the club, ball, and path. WOW!. Thanks for the detail explanation , the use of alignment rods and props to show what happens. The adjustment is only a few degrees depending on what type of shot one wants to work. Now I SEE. Went out last night and put the knowledge to the test. Using a 52 degree wedge hit not 1, 2, or 3, but 10 draws in a row between 80-100 yards. THANK YOU for sharing!
I sure needed to see this video .... "Thank You"
Thanks for visiting!
Nate, you are correct. However, the world of golf has no idea what D Plane, of which I am very well aware--I am a Trackman University Master--means whatsoever. This video was not made for a professional, but for a golfer wanting to gain a better understanding. I think the point gets across fairly well in the video, as so many viewers have mentioned.
Great point
I been hacking away for about five years and your visual lesson was very helpful and understandable I finally feel like I'm starting to play real golf, tks alot
This may be the BEST golf video on youtube!!! Best explanation of ball flight laws I've seen (neat: 3 club faces combined with 3 paths give you 9 possible shots)! Added to S&T, this makes a golfer formidable.
As a UK pga member I really enjoyed this video it's a great refresher for me no bullshit ideal regards sean
Thanks, Sean!
I really liked this video. It is one of the clearest explanations of how the club face and the club path affect the flight of the ball. Most of your videos are very easy to understand. I believe these are going to help me improve my golf game. thanks
Dean Ishmael
Mr. Dunigan. Great job on explaining proper ball flight laws. The PGA of America should be shaking their heads. They have taught thousands of teachers the wrong info. for years, including me, and have confused millions of golfers around the world. Maybe this will help increase the number of players and increase rounds played. I'll spread the word of this video.
@avancios for the pull-slice you would have to swing outside-to-inside and with an closed club face in relation to the target line (creating the left side launch) but with an open club face in relation to the swing path or impact angle (creating the right side spin). Both methods are taught by professionals and are considered a fade. Please correct me if there is only one real fade by definition.
For all the times Ive asked this question, this is the first time i got a detailed answer. Just yesterday I tried every possible swing borderlining on ridiculous and STILL couldnt hit a draw/hook. It was either straight or right.Im really hopind your advice helps me. That being said, i whole heartedly appreciate you taking the time to helping aspiring golfers such as myself
Great video. I have found swinging slow and doing half swings at the range the best method of changing both face and path, don't worry about length at all just getting the ball to different directions other than my usual slice was awesome.
hey John. I know this video was put up like 7 years ago. But I wish this was showed to every single golfer the first day they pick up a club. It took me 7 years of slicing the ball, then two swings after someone explained these exact principles to me to finally be able to shape the ball. FWIW I don't believe in hitting straight shots ever. I think most people will find it much much much easier to put the ball on a target if they hit a slight draw/fade/ whatever they are most comfortable doing. Appreciate the video though.
Great visuals. Thanks for posting. Those little bugs on your lens drove me nuts..lol
@PJRGOLF08 What tape are you listening to? He said the ball direction came off the face and the curvature was due to the differential to the face and the path. He did a great job explaining this!
I am looking forward to many teaching pros watching the video and passing on to their students.
excellent presentation great Job!
Tyler Theberge
awesome awesome video. i've never truly understood how to curve shots and so tried to avoid it. can't wait to get on the range to practice these concepts.
this really really helped. had one of those wake up moments.
went out and played much better, thank you
One of the better explanations on ball flight.
Thanks!
One of the best videos of this kind. Thank for posting it.
also ball can start well outside the triangle of the path and face lines. Face square, path slightly right. Ball can start LEFT of where face is pointing at separation.
Really helpful man!
Thank you! Doing my best to help. You may want to have a look at this: th-cam.com/video/UPew-iTYA98/w-d-xo.html
@fridrikgolf sure it will finish to the right, but it will also start (slightly) to the right. You won't be able to see this without high speed cameras. It's the same with billiard balls. If one ball hits another on its side, the other ball will start in the angle that was normal (perpendicular) to the collision or impact (and receives fractional side spin, due to minimal friction)
@fridrikgolf no, I didn't, but I see that we need to get the relations clear. I am always speaking in relations to the target line. So if you swing square or inside-to-inside and with an open club face (open in relation to the target line), the ball will start right and curve right (push-slice). If you swing outside-to-inside and with an square club face (square to the target line), the ball will start straight and curve right (straight-slice).
Great video! Where can I get that attachment that you used to demonstrate the face angle? Also, how does flipping/ loss of flying wedge affect the face angle? Thanks.
@imsuprised actually, you're mistaken. A straight push would mean that your clubface is pointed to the right at impact and your true path is the SAME direction as your face is pointed. If you were to square your face to the target at impact with your current path, you would actually hit overdraws with the ball starting essentially at the target and drawing to the left of it. Your face does need to be closed some - open to the TARGET but closed to the PATH. Push draw.
I have a question for you: If you think the path is responsible for the direction (x- & y-angles) where the ball starts, how do you explain that the ball doesn't also start into the direction of the z-angle (i.e. launch angle). The club face hits the ball normally (ideally) on its way down (before the low point) - according to you the ball starting direction is completely dependent on the club path. The ball doesn't know and doesn't differentiate between the three dimensions.
@pgampro I thought hitting down would move the club inward or left of target line through impact. Could you please explain how hitting more downward would move the club outward. Thanks
Awesome, good visualization tools! Thanks!!
This was very clear- Much appreciated!
I am a duffer and these visuals will help (I hope!)
Nice video thx for making it simple for me to understand.
D plane Doppler radar has redefined this information because as the angle of attack is constantly changing in a two plane motion (downward towards the ground level, to strike a ball forward of your side positioning). 70% of initial ball path will be towards where the the face is pointing at impact, and the swing path at impact has a 30% effect of the launch. The path has little effect in relationship but does influence. It produces the side spin that creates the curvature itself. If you strike a ball with any downward angle of attack, it strikes the ball prior to pointing at the target, so it launches right of target. To overcome that you must align your body to the left at address to have ANY chance of ever hitting the ball straight towards an intended target. The truth is where in the bottom of the swing when you strike the ball determines if it starts left, right or straight at the target itself. Is is about whether you are hitting down or not. So a driver you want a slightly upward strike, so now the club has closed to the target at impact (past level so club head is now moving upward inside of target line) , so you must set up more to the right at address to over come that point of the arc movement. Check out the explanation of the so called D plane.. it is a bit more informative in my opinion.
awesome vid, thanks for sharing. Always thought it was the other way around (the path controlled the takeoff)
Mr. Dunigan,when i set up to hit a draw,i close my stance relative to the target line,but i keep my club face angle perpendicular to target line.so i believe i am swinging inside to out on the downswing.I am left handed,and if i have struck the ball well,it will start out left of the target and curve back toward the target.so it seems to me that the initial flight path of the ball was primarily set up by my setup ,closed to the target,and not the clubface angle.what am i missing?thanks john
tiger said it is all in the release IN MY SWING it starts where my path is going and turns to face angle i bet this happens in tigers swing too. there is a lot of variables in this that goes unseen by some,,, but if you want to draw it i would not try a outside to inside swing path and if you want to cut it i would not have a inside to outside swing path if you want to hit it straight be sure to swing straight down the line with the face square thanks hitmanhawky
i think the ball sticks to the clubhead for a fraction of a second so this pulls or pushes the ball to the swing path line not face aim line for starting i think if you had vaseiline on the face it might start where the face is aimed but in my book it starts where the swing path is going and then curves to the face alignment, the spin comes from friction and the friction pulls or pushes the ball to swing path line for starting direction, 100 mph clubhead speed it will start on swing path period
This was misunderstood and therefore taught wrong for 130 years.. Only the physicists understood ball flight from clubface/swing path interaction. Trackman helped the average person understand this. This gentleman is explaining it correctly.
Reid Sheftall Yup!!!
Hitting down more does affect the amount of inside-out. If the club is traveling more downward, it is also going to be moving more outward. That's why you can see someone like Mark Calcavecchia throw his divot well left of the target, yet hit only a slight fade with his irons.
@avancios If you want to fade the ball there are two ways. The first is the easy method mentioned above, the straight-slice. It requires you to stand open to the target. The second is the difficult method, the pull-slice (see next comment)
Hi jon.. I have the official instructional publication of the us golf teachers federation and under the ball flight laws section of the book they explain the clubhead path provides initial direction and the club face angle at impact provides the curve of the ball towards the end of its flight.. Im a bit confused
Sheriss, those are outdated info. This is up to date.
@PJRGOLF08 thanks for your thoughts, i have played at a very high level for 25 years and strike it as well as anyone, i know with my swing it is how i discribed it . i can set up a test to show almost anything i want on ball flight ,,if it is done on a machine and with clubs that fit, trust me it will start where the path is going and curve to the face angle. it is funny but jack nicklaus and tiger think the way i do . but we all three have great swings i guess that is what it takes good day hm
@pgampro does the angle down into the ball matter??
John - great video - technically correct - can't believe the 'swing path initial direction' boys have yet to come out of the dark ages!
Good video. Well explained.
I know these masterclass series with Luke Donald. It doesn't matter what says, but what he thinks he does. He's been playing since he was 7 and back then teaching pros only taught it the old way. Just because he is saying he aims the club face to the target and his body left of the target doesn't mean the club face is square to target at impact. It is not as easy as that. Ball position and wrist rotation have a major share in closing the club face at impact.
@imsuprised yes, that would be my advice: Have a target - whether it be the flag or a ridge - and dial in your flight so that your ball should never cross the line [overdraw or overfade]. Makes misses more manageable. Good luck! Let 'us' know how it goes.
i agree fully with this. great understanding of golf face path!
Folks, when the spin axis tilts, does it tilt to the side? Listen, I KNOW it's spin axis tilt. After about 25000 lessons, I am certain that average golfers, those who we depend upon to keep the game afloat, understand much more readily the notion of sidespin as opposed to "tilted spin axis." That's why I use that description.
Could not agree more! After all we are instructing golfers not instructors! It's not their job to know the correct terminology.
I use the image of airplane wings. As the tilt the ball goes in the direction. This is easy for average players to grasp
You are perfectly write, John.
How dare you..............
Talk sense......
Thanks for sharing very helpful!
Still a great video after all this time
IF you check high speed camera footage, square face and path at impact is ALWAYS a hook. These ball flight laws are old, don't take into account rate of closure and many other things.
Mr. Dunigan, I agree with some other user's comments... I'll respectfully say that this video should be updated with correct information or be taken off completely. For example, the ball is not "rubbed with slice side spin". TrackMan data clearly shows otherwise...
Best video on TH-cam
Good video. There's no side spin ever produced. Just an FYI :-)
excellent, excellent video!
@Excaliburxxxxxx This info is not correct, the intial direction is not affected by speed. Have a look on the trackman website for more info. The initial direction varies between 65% in favour of face up to 90% in favour of face depending on face rough ness, ball type, mositure etc but virtually not at all to do with speed. If you use the approximation that the face is 75% responsible for initial direction you wont go too far wrong. :)
thanks very much, very informative and useful.
I get it now. Thank you. Finally.
I think this is a very helpful video however Trackman has taught us that path will not influence the initial direction of where the ball starts.
Awesome Information, John. It is a shame how many people don't know this.
Sorry....but the golf ball does not have side spin. The golf ball has back spin. Its the tilt of that back spin that makes the ball hook or slice. If the tilt is to the left the ball will hook, if the tilt is right the ball will slice. You can think of it like an airplane flying straight away, if the left wing then drops below the right wing the plane will bank to the left( hook) and if the right wing then drop below the left the plane will bank right.(slice). Apart from that this video is quite good.
No the video is correct ball flight laws have been re corrected since high speed camera clubface dictates for 85% the takeoff i would have used a half black half white ball to demonstrate spin though
To all:
Thanks for the kind comments. I have a strong request for you. Play around with the face angle. On the way back to the top, on the way down. Try holding the club with a closed face (strong) grip and an open face (weak) grip. Learn by playing. Don't judge. Just try something and see what happens. That's how you REALLY learn, not by just having someone like me tell you what to do.
John
I think that It would help to show the feet placement change for an inside out path vs a outside in path. For me the swing path is is best controlled by the stance alignment to the swing path. It may be that the pros can control the path of the swing from a square alignment to the target line, for me that is too complex. KIS
I hope this is the easiest way to control the the ball spin.
Great explanation. The PGA of America dropped the ball on this one. Homer Kelley got it right 40 years ago! I still have a tough time convincing players about this. Ignorance executing its habit!
John I'm not sure that I understood you properly
The flight of a golf ball is determined by Newtonian physics always has been and unless technology changes to negate that, it ALWAYS will!
Club head path ALWAYS determines the initial ball direction and the angle of the club face to that path determines the side spin put on the ball...Therefore a shot hit with the club head path that goes straight down the target line with a club face that is square to the path will go straight down the target line....if the face is closed it will go straight and then left...if it is open then it will go straight and then right........If the club head path is right of target line the ball will start right with the same effects based on the club face angles.......the same applies to a club head path that is left of target line.
That is why a slice starts out left and then moves right......How far right it moves through the air will be determined by the amount the angle and the loft of the club face
That is call VECTOR forces and it is a LAW of motion!
Paul EJ, a very incorrect statement. You need to consider the eccentric forces on the ball due to rate of closure. Face and path square can mean ball starting 6 degrees left!
wrong...back to school for you Paul!
You're dead wrong. The clubface controls 80-85% of the starting direction. Try a dead straight putting stroke with your putter open 45 degrees and see where the ball starts
How the ball takes off is swing path. What the ball does in the air is club face
Very wrong! Watch some high speed footage of impact.
Well I'll let micheal breed and Martin hall know they gave me false information
rackum44 Sorry Rackum but you have been lead down the same wrong path I was for years. We were given wrong info that was based on beliefs and not science. Trackman and Flightscope use science to prove that our beliefs were incorrect. Go to the range, open your club slightly to the target line and swing on an inside to out path (feel like you are swing to 1st base, not target) and watch the ball start right and then curve back to target. Thats a real draw.
TheShoresofPanama you are right,I was informed on new information regarding the face. Now they are saying how the ball takes off is the club face.
So then what’s the D-PLANE
The D Plane, D is for descriptive, is a simple description of the plane formed by the club path and the face. It was a very important understanding for sure. The ball climbs up the D plane then will curve right of left depending upon the face relative to the path.
Thank you all for your great comments. I appreciate the support very much.
JD
it helped me. txs
if you want the ball to start right of target and draw you need to have a swing path inside to out, if you want it to start left of target and cut you need a swing path that is outside to in if you want it to start right at it yep a straight down the line path,,,, now you throw in 3 different face angles and 3 different releases, straght , draw , and cut release,wow it is hard to understand use draw release with cut shot plan wow better understanding we have easier it is.
Believe what you want, but what you say doesn't follow any logical physical laws. I will still advance my view and that of up-to-date golf instruction. As for the results of TrackMan, the ball will start between 80 and 90 percent of the angle where the club face is oriented and only 10 to 20 percent of the angle of the club path. And this is just because of the ball's compression right before separation, when the ball receives side spin from impact resilience.
This might help...
Ball Flight Test
There is no sidespin on the golf ball.
When the spin axis is tilted, the ball curves, right? Which way is it tilted? Yes I realize it's not side-spin, but the spin axis is tilted to the side!
hitting a golf ball is like driving a vehicle backwards. Because you are working on the back of the ball things work the reverse of what the human brain is wired to comprehend.
15million rounds down in 2013 is not doing fine, lorne.
This is so incorrect. Not even going to get into it, I’d be here all day.
it's called a lie angle tool. Golf around the world will have them.
for some reason I'm doubting some of the science behind this explanation
@hitmanhawky You need to get on a trackman, you'll be amazed at how wrong you are.
All sounds so simple until you actually start hitting some balls.Any twitch in your muscular system could put you off. Impossible to hit a dead straight shot
why don't you talk about angular velocity and rate of rotation,,just to make it more confusing..I hope you don't try to teach many people !!
Is that your way of hiding your hindsight or are you in no way able to change personal convictions? Then just say you keep your opinion and none of your "let's agree on my opinion". I didn't come here to spout off or show "just found knowledge" - I just wanted to back up pgampro and give reasonable and objective arguments as well as proof. I never wanted to impose my opinion on you, but offer additional understanding. I'm sorry if you felt defensive.
Incorrect there is no such thing as "side spin" only back spin! The reason a ball "slices,fades,hooks & draws" is due to the axis of the backspin rotation! Fact
Sorry John but it sounds like you don't have much faith in the inteligent's of the average golfer. I think I just explained spin axis in a very simple and understandable way and, hell, I'm just a caddie. I've used this explanation with a hundred amateur golfers over the last few years and not one of them didnt understand it. If your going to go as far as trying to explain the physics of the D plane to people why fudge on the scientific explanation on what makes the ball curve? I don't think anyone is served by obscuring a simple truth
You've got that backwards. The face directions influences about 80-85% of the starting direction of the ball. Path is about the other 15-20%. Trackman and high-speed video have absolutely proven this beyond a shadow of a doubt. Search this on TH-cam: eEHiY5iv5u4. Best high-speed vid I've seen. Physics doesn't lie.
Incorrect. You need to learn about the D Plane.
Well, if she sick, I pray that your not so conceited to think that it's you and your 25000 leasons that's going to save her. The great game has been around for 300 plus years and will be a round long after you and I are finished with this peeing contest.
Just logic, not teaching anything....
John, I'm a big fan of you and your teaching, but not on this video. I realize it was posted in 2009 and because of this outdate information, I would repost with the proper corrections or elimate it altogether. TrackMan would help to clear up this miss-information.