Hard disagree on Black Maria. Purple is such a hard color to balance because of the don return. That's why most purple leaders are really bad. The only purple leaders (apart from Law who was just unreasonable from the start) which ever saw success were purely ramp based leaders like the Luffys. But purple decks which rely on reducing don every turn, without having a card like Black Maria, they are basically impossible to ever keep up. I am talking your Iceburg and Foxy and Z. Leaders that are designed to work anything like this (which as you put it is the very identity of purple) have no chance to ever even just work out without Black Maria. And she won't even be searchable in those decks either. So ban Black Maria and you ruin half of purple's color identity for the future. And yes, of course I am aware that none of those leaders I mentioned are viable at the moment but without Black Maria, there is even less potential for a deck like that to ever be viable in the future. And as a purple player myself, I find purely ramp decks way less interesting mechanically than don reduction style decks which basically break completely free from the fixed don curve.
Coming from Mtg what leaves a feel bad in my mouth playing against black isn’t all their removal, or recurring bodies from trash. It’s them removing my stuff while also adding substantial bodies to the board as well.
Ya black is so dumb. Like they constantly nerf black just to give them better tools next set. It's why they have been prominent for so long in the meta. Like how about nerfing Black and treating them like they treat green for a few sets
worst black ability is to force you to discard cards so you just sit there not playing for hours - how is that a fun game. and they made forced discard abilities only cost 1 mana on top of revealing your hand
I was playing my friends gecko moria deck and honestly playing him in that deck feels so fair. Its wild that they don't already leader lock these cards when so many other cards seem almost forced into their leaders without any real payoff (like majority of the minks beside carrot+pedro or the whitebeard package) Like if rebecca was only played in dressrosa or gecko moria was only thriller bark leaders, this would make so much more sense to me.
thats why you look to the decks that play the cards unfairly. dont ban the card because a single deck abuses it. ban the card that makes it broken in that deck. if gecko is busted in lucci, find the card that makes it busted in lucci, (spandine)
I think the logic comes from the show/manga. Whitebeard and his crew normally fought together and their reasons to fight was normally to protect each other so them being locked makes sense(Same with the Minks minus the ones listed, carrot was with strawhats a lot and pedro was on whole cake while the rest were still on Zou). Moria in the show does stuff that isn't just Thriller Bark and his most powerful shadows aren't from TB either so makes sense why he does for everything 4 and below. Also as the TCG progresses they will add more and more powerful cards to stop it like Blackbeard next set
If all 8+ cost cards were leader/type locked, that would have created a super diverse meta. A huge number of leaders would feel unique with their own identity and be viable.
@omercora I don't think that would be good for the game for anyone except fans of certain decks. A mix is fine, especially one really powerful ones like Moria or 10Mom, but others like 10Ace are really there just to make sure your color actually does something.
@@butregenyo_yavrusu one piece is still a very young TCG. So yes the more we get new leaders and different characters yes it would be more vastly different....
@@butregenyo_yavrusu Yeah but then you would just run into that with the decks that actually did get the tools to compete. You are just trading one problem for another and you will get the same result while alienating people. That would also put card value in the toilet, and potentially kill the game. Imagine if any of the Secrets from the last six sets were leader locked. No value and frankly less fun than the game is now, which is pretty fun still.
As you touched on in the video: the part I find most annoying, is that Bandai seems to always print counters to a colour in that colour. Sick of getting KO'd by effects? Play characters with effects that raise their cost making them harder to KO (all black), or cards like Borsa and Sabo blocker (both black). Sick of Sabo blocker protecting the board? Play cards that "trash" characters (which are also black). The counters to black (and every color) should be in a different colour, so that certain colours have a natural advantage. So if the meta is all black you could play, say, green or whatever, to naturally counter black.
I was playing Kalgara at locals the other day, and i played out the 6c Kalgara into 5c Noland heal combo. My opponent looked shocked, asked to read my cards, then made a comment along the lines of "6 don for 11 don worth of characters? Broken, Bandai made a mistake. Yellow can do everything". That was not a joke statement. I looked up at him, incredulously slow blinking, as he started his turn and proceeded to pop both my characters with an ice age/Moria combo. Black does feel very uncontrolled right now. I'd love to have leader locking, or type locking going on within these cards. The fact that Moria doesnt just revive thriller bark is crazy, and like it was mentioned in the video, Lucci's 'return 3 cards to deck' is not a cost, especially when they can be the Moria's you thought you didnt have to worry about anymore. I'm so shocked considering other cards in the archetype specify they return 'CP' cards only. My biggest complaint, and the reason i wont play black decks, is that so many black lists turn out similar with only a differently flavoured leader. I was so excited for ST14 Luffy, black decks were all over my locals and this seemed a decent counter. Imagine my horror, when my strawhat-centred build was abandoned for the most generic 46 black cards in existence, plus 4 of the ST14 Sanji. Even the stage is gone now in a lot of lists. Black decks have become unimaginative and boring, and these cards are a lot of the issue.
I'm waiting for op09 to play BB. My first black deck is will keep since gecko/rebecca/lucci won't be in the deck. The first black deck that will be fun to play imo
I usually play the JP Meta, but when I think about banning stuff I always look at other decks on the same collor that run those cards to see how well they are doing on the meta. Taking black as a example, we have Smoker that even using those 3 cards (yes, I've seen Lucci on Smoker's deck) can't compete at high level. Now we have Doffy being the biggest problem in Japan, the meta goes all around it, sometimes with Lucci coming right after it, cycling to Bonney/Shanks and after that BY Luffy/BlackBeard in a rock, paper, scizors loop. If you take all those cards from Doffy and use it with any other Leader (Boa/Zoro&Sanji), it will suffer the same fate as Smoker. It's true that some cards are extremelly strong all by itself, but for me it's the leader + those cards that breaks the game. If Lucci didn't trash 2 cards with every attack it would be harder to set up, and if Doffy wasn't able to bring another body with it's skill (2 if it pulls a Jinbei) every single turn, Jinbei wouldn't be set as broken.
This is true in all honesty. The leaders that become meta due to how well they abuse these cards are ultimately what is causing most of the problems, even if the support cards themselves are OP.
I like how it is. It's closer to how the actual character works in the anime/manga. I think to nerf it a little bit both characters can come in rested or it can work normally but only the active character gets on play effects or something similar
@ blue gecko is typed locked to revival already the precedent is established and doesn’t kill the card. Also it’s cool that some cards follow the anime/mangas abilities but cards do not have to emulate that every time.
@@JakeHayes44 well yeah we already have a gecko that's a staple card. Don't need another staple gecko card, so that makes sense the future one is locked especially when blue already has a lot of stables currently
@@Martyrules It should be locked to Thriller Bark leader, so they have to work to fill their trash in order to benefit from the effects of the other cards
@@chrislaalo3965 I rather it be restricted then locked or the suggestions I have prior. There's more busted blue cards that aren't locked. Every color has a busted stable card
I want to see a world where rebecca is banned before moria is because she is the enabler of the worst moria interactions. One of the positive sides of moria is that it enables really interesting combos in decks that are multicolored with black. And even in a black deck the choice of wether to remove something on your opponents board with lucci/absolom and cost reduction, or make a defensive play with a blocker plus a searcher is fine and is pretty comporable in power to say playing an 8 cost kid + rosinante, or ko'ing anything rested with shanks, or healing plus ko a chump with yamato. But when you get to both remove the opponents board AND establish a blocker AND draw a card AND are still playing a 9k body yourself, that is where the problem is. I always say that moria on his own is not the problem, but the targets he has are. Sanji has a similar problem but it's the opposite. He would be just as strong as moria if there were more powerful blue 9 cost cards. Even if 9 cost Mihawk could hit an 8/9 cost instead of 7, that would be a massive sanji buff. I don't agree that it is difficult to stack your deck in blue. Sure you have to plan for it, but also the color identity of blue is around stacking your deck, and many cards allow you to plan around that gameplan, if you don't like it on your turn 1 perona, you can bottom deck them and try again on your 3 don turn with doffy blocker, or your 5 don turn with ace, or any future cards that might support this gameplan in a world where blue recieves a meaningful boss character to synergize with sanji. And you can say the same thing about black not guaruntee'ing that the right cards will be in their trash for their moria play. Not likely the later the game goes, but not unreasonable to expect your 8/10 don morias to not be full force. That's a lot of yapping to just say I think moria is a really cool and interesting card, and the possibilities for his interactions with other cards and multicolored leaders is why he wasn't leader locked in the first place. It is just one part of an incredibly toxic combo and as the first card you play for the combo, it's easy to look at it and lay the blame on moria, and maybe rightfully so, but I think a large part of the frustration, as pointed out by others already, lies in the fact that counters to a type are given to the same color causing the problem. If more decks had access to momentary ko immunity, moria in general would be a lot weaker.
@alexmh1139 that's why you leader lock her to animal kingdom. The likelihood of some busted purple animal kingdom is not as likely as just a busted purple leader
Have Bandai said anything about their stance on limiting copies rather than bans? I feel like that would help in this scenario. Coming from ygo, limits just made sense to allow deck enabling cards but making them less consistent/oppressive. In this case gecko and similarly jinbe enables a lot of off meta decks to stand a chance. Would limiting these cards to 2-3 be more fair than straight ban?
These things are why our group play "faction locked One Piece" with small exceptions , for example pound (whole cake island) can be played in a Big Mom pirates deck. It also gives more "lore accurate" decks
Moria breaks blacks identity the most. Black is a mid-range combo color with resource management. The moment you play a 9k Boss Monster that re-creates your normal combo plays for free you basicaly broke the whole playstyle. Without Moria Black Decks would play very combo heavy with very little big bodys. The big bodys in black either setup the next turn or does the mid-range combo stuff but as one play and a bit stronger. Moria does both. You have very rarely a big body on the field in Black, because they directly contradict the combo playstyle.
The community almost entirely agrees in their dislike of nami, because you don't get to interact with the deck. Yet somehow they don't seem to have a problem with black making it so you barely ever get to untap your characters. People are really out here defending black and all it's nonsense. Card game communities have a problem with the way they think and this really highlights it.
I think spandine is a huge issue. Gecko plays should have to choose between blockers/value or removal, getting potentially 2 2ks back to hand and a blocker while removing 2 bodies is the biggest issue. Outside of the spandine combo gecko is still quite powerful but at minimum i think that combo needs to go.
I think Moria is their third biggest mistake. Bottom decking is their first and making Uta RP instead of GP was their second lmao. I agree, Moria would’ve been fine if there was a cost like play 2 cards then return a ton of cards from trash to prevent repeated Moria plays or just discard cards from hand to go neutral. And I think requiring you to rest your Black Maria to use her effect wouldve made her more balanced. And then there’s green. They’re given these two good effects (freeze and restanding/resting cards) but then are given almost no tools to use them. Why aren’t there more cards that can rest other cards (characters and don)? Or counters that can rest cards? Why do they constantly get archetype locked even when their effects aren’t even that strong? And why do they have to jump through so many hoops to use mediocre effects while every other color can just do things that are more game changing for similar or almost no cost. And why is resting a unit so cost restricted?
Vinsmoke Judge has a more powerful effect, but is fair because it involves more setup and is locked to Raiju, Judge is her thing. Gecko is... the opposite of that. Every black deck, EVERY SINGLE ONE, runs it at a 4 of. That indicates to me that it is actively broken. No card should be a straight up autoinclude.
-I think there's some good takeaways in here (answers for colors need to be printed in other colors, leader locking, etc)but also some overlooked information. for starters, Black only started seeing a solid road to viability in set 6 and beyond with the release of the thriller bark cards. Sure saka existed, but it was the blue cards that carried the deck. The ramp of what is considered "fair" for black cards to accomplish has risen as a direct result of poor rollout from Bandai in making black cohesive. We went through red, yellow, and now black being exclusively dominant with "broken" cards from each so it's not unreasonable at all for bandai to print a card like 8c moria at the time and think its more or less fine. -Additionally you had made a statement regarding 9c Sanji that the card isn't good because it requires setup that you might not have. the same can be said for any deck that needs to see specific pieces to work; Black being the poster child for this statement as it needs to 1) see 8c moria(unsearchable), 2) have the correct pieces in trash for the situation to make the combo effective, 3) must have pruned the board state prior to the Moria turn to ensure the combo gets there, and 4)(situational) have an additional piece of reduction in hand. That's an awful lot of setup and it requires so many concessions in deck construction that ultimately make you weaker to some matchups. prior to 8.5 Lucci lists are running 8-9 2ks max and relying on rebecca to recycle them. This means you often just have to take cheap shots. -regarding each individual card --rebecca- was printed during a format where the best she could do was play out a hina and add a 2k. this always required an additional card to combo with to be really effective. --lucci- again printed in an era where popping 2 low costs didnt really break the game, as katakuri was still top table. I do agree that it's too well stated and there isnt a real cost to using it. --moria- yes we know this card is amazing. Frankly it has to be if we want black to pay a hand cost to pop characters, as comboing with rebecca and cp/navy searchers is the only way black has to increase their hand size(recycling low # of 2ks especially). Again this is a deliberate choice you can't always make depending on the gamestate. The real challenge is that if we ban cards like this, how do we then supplement black to the point it can stand against the creature vomit of other decks without that solution feeling like another moria?
100% agree. Its a tough job designing a game with a good balance of cards that can go in any of that color and a number of leader locked. But gecko was a mistake
The time for most of these bans is well past us. The meta is moving away from Black as the top deck. Moria should be 2 per deck and be fine because you won't see back to back Moria, which is the real problem. One Moria isn't game-breaking. Discarding for black was never worth it. That's why Black wasn't good til Lucci.
This is the disagreement comment i'm most on board with. The powercreep in other colors is happening so that they can catch up with Moria. I think it's an interesting approach but it does feel like too little too late, we already went through 3 sets of black dominance. Re: black/Moria being pushed out of the meta, I think it's worth noting that all it takes is one starter or a couple good cards (Think ST13/BY Luffy) to re-break moria.
I've mentioned this in other comments, but coming from other card games, which I have heard is common for OPTCG, it is so strange to me that more people don't think black is a problem. Black didn't need Jack. Black didn't need who's who. I understand that they intended for King to be viable in OP08, and they added AK support, but why is there so little restraint shown for that color? That same attitude is what got RP Law banned. They will just keep getting themselves into these scenarios if they don't leader lock these cards. It is so insane how many people complain about Nami's "solitaire" when black is right there actively removing your board AND building theirs up in the mean time. They never even need to tap out. All their best guys have been less than 9C, so they always have 1 to 2 free don to poke you with WHILE ADVANCING THEIR BOARD AND HURTING YOURS! The most insulting part is that black's best counter IS ALSO BLACK!! Insane that OPTCG, Cardas and Bandai are just ignoring the dumpster fire that is black and what it is actively doing to this game. I'm really appreciative that my locals have enough sense to mostly not play black because it ruins the game for everyone until grinding season starts.
Black Maria is a problem because of a bigger design issue: Currently only Purple does -don stuff, when really this should've been one of the core concepts of the game. Think about it if you're fighting against a deck that keeps being at low don like say Reiju or Iceburg with Black Maria you're still forced to be at equal don with them at the end of your turn. Low Don decks should've been a thing for more colors. Bandai teased at this from the start with Starter Crocodile having a -4 don effect but for some reason Bandai walked the fuck back from that. Any problematic card would be way more reasonable if they had -1 or -2 tied to them. Imagine if Moria or Lucci or Rebecca had -2 don attached to whatever they do.
I was thinking about this lately myself. It would be nice to see more cards like 7C Jack with the +4 to cost text added to cards that is not black, or cards that say like "as long as this card is on the field your opponent cannot put cards into hand or play anything from trash", or red and blue cards that say "this card cannot be rested by your opponents effects". Giving other colors a way to counter a color.
@@OhNoACamera at least these cards are slowly rolling out. Next set we're getting the buggy that prevents 3 or 4 costs from attacking, we are getting Usopp leader the set after that will up cost and we have cards like Hawkings to prevent any removal if you meet the conditions. I will say though. Black doesn't need to get more tools right now. They keep removing black tools to give them better ones next set which is a little infuriating because why even ban the other thing then?
I saw the thumbnail and i was like yea I've only started playing a month ago and ive noticed that every black deck regardless of leader plays like the same cards because they're so generically good
I just think units with a cost 5 or less, so cards you can consistently play 2 of in a turn. Should only have 1 trait(rush, blocker, double attack, banish) and 1 additional effect(like recover or play card from grave, draw, search, play card, etc.) or a second trait. Exceptions would be cards that have a cost like black sabo which makes you discard 2 to activate its destruction protection. Yes it enables black but it can force them to potentially discard a key piece or counters in a risky situation. Unlike rebecca which gives you recovery and and an on play while also being a blocker, also that new boa is a whole other issue but rebecca has been annoying for longer and is an on going example of the bigger issue.
Agh so good to see a breakdown like this. Moria started something in the TCG that actually ruined the game for me. I was already a bit concerned with luchi but when moria came out that was it
So im mainly a digimon player who dabbles in one piece on the side(mainly play P kaido and rp luffy) so take it with a grain of salt but here's my take being halfway through the video. Small preamble colors in digimon are alot like colors in one piece in terms of what they do mechanically, though with digimon it has the added flavor of usually having specific types of digimon locked to specific colors(dragons in red, beasts in blue, bugs in green etc). And as a color black to my experience more or less works the same being deleting based on play cost and generally being on a defensive color(moreso in digimon). But it seems like they took black and purple from digimon(mainly messing with the grave and such) and just mashed them together which...yeah is alot. All this to say yeah black is wild, like I love moria on his own as a character and everything but man is his card insane. Like him rebecca and imo (5c)sabo is apart of what I like to call the three musketeers of black. In almost any black deck it feels like you're gonna be playing some combination of them just because they're way too good to pass up. To the point where it'd be tantamount to throwing the game to not be playing them. Sometimes even all three of them. In digimon we had something similar to what moria does in a deck called Anubis Merva which effectively did what moria did but you got to get guys on board that could attack the same turn, draw you a card, and pop something on board. Anubismon eventually was limited thank yggdrasil but is a good testament to why you really probably shouldn't print cards like moria or anubismon because we end up with stuff like this. Ps: please dont take away my black maria I need her so badly 😭
The Ideia of Gecko bringing characters from the trash is awesome fits very well with the history! But also in the history Moria's zombies are nerfed! Character could come with some down side like -1000 power, or "no on play can be activated when a zombie come to play" something like that maybe the card wasbt to Op
That's a great idea -- or just keep with the zombie theme and turn the resurrected cards in to generic beaters or somethings. Remove their on-plays, etc -- make it so it's more so used for getting 4/5k bodies on the board or something
Maybe a way to nerf Moria without bans or reprints would be to add a general rule that says something along the lines of "If a character enters the field rested it's on play abilities cannot be activated."
Well in that case OP09 Lim wouldn't even be a deck, since her characters are palyed rested. I like the idea, of restricting the on play abilities if a character comes into play as rested, but I don't think it would solve the problem.
New rebecca is a bad example because blue / rebecca leader has much better card draw that leader is built around having a big hand which is my bigger issue with banning to many of these cards i think there are actually a more cards you would have to get rid of; pilaf, edward weevil, reiju, although i do think an overhaul would make sense and replace gecko with leader locked replacements for by / gecko, make rebecca leader locked, make lucci leader locked etc
I think one thing that I feel like people don't talk about enough is how efficient black is able to reduce cost to perform these plays that people hate, like ice age is an insane card, could you imagine if red had a card that was 1 don reduce anything by 5k, or for 1 don if you have 2 or less life give a character -3k and draw a card
I think the problem is not moria using trash for free or having efficient ko like lucci... the problem lies in not giving equal means to compete to other colors like big card draw (we dont use trash but we have bigger hand), +cost to characters or cannot be ko effects
I agree with everything you said in this video. Even more so on Moria. Just too powerful a play. Now, my rant is: yellow is the new black, and it feels very bad. At the beggining, yellow's gimmick was "yay, trigger. Get me free blockers on board" Now its like "yay, trigger. Let's clear the enemy's board for free, build our board, heal ourselves, and even rest..." Like, wtf man... It's like yellow doesnt know what it wants to be, so it is a lot of everything. So overtuned cards and leaders. I despise the healing mechanic, but it was "alright" as it's sole thing (play around with lives). Right now it feels just bad knowing that yellow can pull a dozen tricks out of Doraemons bat.
def wish more leader locking was done for sure. I'm a fan of jank, so ofc that means I had to run a full Cipher Pol deck for the new Lucci leader. It's fun, but the difference between full Cipher Pol, adding rebecca, and then adding moria is insane. In it's own archetype, the cards feel fair bc your hand size actually shrinks, but altogether, its a bit of a mess and not very fun for anyone involved. Even just adding rebecca makes the deck so much better, now combine that with moria lmao
Well we saw that something like Rebecca and Moria hasn't happened again since op06(I don't count Black Maria because Law got the Axe), so they are paying more attention in character design. The Question is whether they keep Rebecca and Moria in the Game. In my opinion, they should ban them and give Moria and Rebecca a substitution. Yes, Black should be able to keep up afterwards, but i think having them out of the picture for one or two sets and figuring out how to balance those cards out helps the game in the long run
If the meta is flood the board then the game needs viable board wipes. if the meta is black's removal and trash recursion then there needs to be ways to interact with the trash and ways to protect your board that arent in black. the fact that sabo protects from k.o. while being in black is another card that rarely gets mentioned but is equally baffling card design
I would like to see a really systematic approach based on fun factor honestly. That includes mechanical uniqueness as well as hitting the fewest decks. The first hits I would like to see for black "recursion" for example is Spandine, then if that doesn't work ban Rebecca, then if that doesn't work ban Moria, making the intentions clear all along the way. Lucci should probably go away, but without Spandine I think he is a lot more reasonable.
Leader locking or setting a card limit to certain decks is better in my opinion. I say this with bias tho. As I have just traded for 4 black maria, only to use them in a zephr deck.
I only agree with Gecko leader locked. If you ban everything that's good then you're just going to complain about the next best thing. Leader locking actual problem cards would fix this.
Black maria isn't really doing anything. It can limit card design in the future but it definitely isn't a problem right now. People also hate on black really hard but if lucci didn't exist then law and dofy would have both been tier 0 decks and people would just complain about those. Card games will always have decks that are above the rest so I don't think anything needs to be done. It would be weird to hit the SECOND best deck lol. Nami needs to be addressed before anything else tbh. That deck is awful for the game imo
He’s not saying Lucci shouldn’t exist, but the cost to use his effect isn’t even a cost to begin with. Same with Moria. Everything should have a cost in this game because it’s based on value. But when you give one color the ability to use the trash for value, it throws off the balance of the game.
@@TacticalDimples lucci requires other cards to remove things and moria requires set up throughout the entire game. It's strong don't get me wrong but dofy is swinging for 7k and bringing out 8 don worth of characters for 1 don. How are we gonna address the SECOND best deck when dofy is doing that?
my issues with your arguments are this. black maria: its fine. no deck outside of AKP and reiju play her. the card isnt really relevant, and while yes she ramps a crazy amount, it still takes a whole turn to use her, or you play her and hope she doesnt die because her cost and power makes her the easiest card to remove for any color. rebecca: is fine. black as a whole suffers from its hand advantage issues, especially the navy archetype. this helps fix it. lucci: yes he has vanilla stats and can remove 2 characters. but like it still takes multiple cards for him to even think about doing that effectively. his "cost" is also fine when the decks that can play him often cycle or mill through their deck like crazy. its fine. gecko is also fine. its only certain combinations of cards that make gecko broken. its an 8c card. it should have a really good effect. its THE boss of the thriller bark archetype, and is a tool that black needed as a whole. outside of saka, black was mid. he only helps them do better. i argue that the problem is spandine. you remove that card and suddenly lucci cannot wall up and remove the board at the same time. gecko already has to choose. lucci should too. yes its frustrating to lose to them alot, but these cards are here to stay and i believe that they are not the worst things we can see played.
I don't think the bans are necessary, I feel its too late for that, but rather I feel they are only as ridiculously strong as they are due to leaders abusing them so easily (yes they are op alone, but leader abuse it pushes it too far). I feel that its time other colours got more cards and the ability to counter things outside of their own colour (why does black have the only counter to black etc?) I see what the issue is, however, and understand why people are wanting the bans, but I feel there is a better solution than to cripple an entire colour bc of a few strong cards 😅
I remember when i first started playing and someone was explaining the rundown of black. I go oh yeah black does black things like in magic... They had no idea thats what it did in mtg lol 😂
Agree to some aspects. I would agree that overtuning cards is terrible for the game. As making only fast decks would just make this game like hearthstone. Draw perfect curve or die. I would rather see them errattad then banned.
why would they not make black maria have to rest to activate her effect. if you do that she gets her effect maybe once, and the only way you get it again is if you invest a lot in defending or if your opponent decides to ignore it
100% agree. I’ve always brought up the fact that Lucci is broken and it’s overlooked by Moria. 4c, 6k, broken ability, and 1k counter?! Honestly! I don’t think Moria is anywhere near as effective without Lucci. However, in tandem, it’s near unbeatable. It can/will never be outclassed no matter what sort of power creep or card mechanics Bandai adds. You either get destroyed by a 9k&6k, or you run the risk of having Lucci come back repetitively to control board… Most of the time, Lucci isn’t even hard played. Good players will counter with him early just to ensure it comes out with Moria. You know it’s broken when the only win condition is getting lucky they don’t draw Moria. It’s not good game design.
Just chiming in that 4c lucci actually doesn’t have any counter, which makes it pretty bad in the hand sometimes, but I do agree it is very strong in many instances
Banning Moria? Absolutely, card shouldn't be in the game as it is given they released Judge and limited him to his own archetype in the same set. Lucci and Rebecca? At this point, nah. Lucci as of now is kinda specific and really only relegated to Lucci leader (who, because of his continued relevance going into OP09/10, might end up on the chopping block) since Eruption has left the game. Other black leaders like black Luffy, Smoker, etc can't use him well because they can't fill that grave quick enough the way decks like Sakazuki and 07Lucci did/do. Now that other colors are starting to get swarm and better removal, Rebecca feels a lot more fine than she did back in set 5 and 6 where she absolutely was 100% banworthy then.
I also agree with jinbe, or at least some seven warlords stuff. The fact that I'm seeing the seven warlords package in every blue deck on the sim should be a good indicator 😑.
Because he doesn't know what he is talking about. He is ignoring that Lucci has always been about returning cards to the trash and interacting with that trash- Bluno, 5 drop Kaku, new Kaku, spandine but yet 4 drop lucci is a problem card :/
Ehh I kinda disagree. Moria only seems broken because of Rebecca. After playing lucci alot lately it really does seem difficult to always get the proper cards in trash to get the spandine/lucci play off. Nerfing lucci would be terrible for the meta because doffy would completely run away with the meta. Doffy board spamming is way more broken in my opinion.
I would argue it's shown that they have learned that you need keep an eye on what you are releasing. It would be super busted if you could play the Black Sanji that KOs with him, both of which would be easy to play in the BP Luffy deck.
@kylemattinson7284 I would agree if they weren't doing this from beginning. 7 cost blue ivankov it's colored locked all the way back in set 2 but dident thin moria needed anything.
@roderickstevn in cases like that, where the card didn't see play, they might have found the card was undertuned, so they "turned the knobs" up on Moria, then turned them back down on Luffytaro.
Nah I think bandai would just give other colors more support at the end of the day it's a business and what's best for business is making more different cards that will produce more income into their pockets
They are never gonna ban moria, rebecca, or lucci bro, too many black decks revolve around these cards and if they got banned that would be gg for literally 80% of black decks. The only card i can see getting banned is black maria
I'm super new to the game, about a month, and I have no idea how black is allowed to do all of this. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong but against good players it feels unwinnable a lot of the times
A graveyard archetype could exist if it actually lessened your hand resource to recur. Moria, Rebecca and Lucci are all free cards that don’t lessen your hand size and are able to put multiple bodies whilst also removing 2 opponent bodies. They just do too much for pretty much no cost.
1:24 sooooo basically gut 3 of blacks best cards? You ban Rebecca you hurt ussop, you ban Lucci you hurt the lucci decks most balanced card, you ban moria you make black go back to rely on hard draw. Leader/type locking isn't going to work either because that just makes the game boring
Gecko is overtuned for sure but if we are targeting the two for one black cards shouldn’t jinbe be in the conversation too. Being able to drop a four cost at any turn after your 4 DON turn for two bodies that can pressure all leaders except for 3 I think.
@ jinbe is a 4 cost that plays a 4 cost. Brook is a 4 cost that plays a 3 or less. Kid has to rest himself allowing for you to clear him before he becomes an issue and requires an additional DON for his “protection” effect. Jinbe literally just plays an extra body. With that don’t look at these cards in a vacuum. What crazy film 3 cost is Brook playing? Also never said it should or has to be done but if you want to bring Rebecca into the conversation specifically then let’s talk about the cards that do something similar.
This video is a wild take. Just ban Lucci or Rebecca. I refuse to let anyone get away with black doesn’t get to be good while the Katakuri deck from set 3 has 900 triggers and big mom swing 7 every turn. Bonnie drags you through the mud and take away black KO and she just beats 8/10ths of the meta alone and she has Doffy which can solo swing a game into her favor from losing positions. It’s crazy for you to have these takes in this 8.5 meta going forward because Doffy is here and will unanimously be the best deck for the next 5 months. And it has a good matchup into Lucci. Want to do something else. Just ban lucci leader! It solves everything. You won’t have to play him. BY is hard checked by Doffy. Idk what you’re complaining about so hard when your savior doffy is here. Lucci in 8 was the best counter to law and Doffy in 09 for the East. The only reason you’re complaining about black now is cause Law isn’t here and Doffy has just begun. Wait, you’ll think Moria is perfectly fine. Cause they can’t even play him on 8 anymore. They just die to doffy.
I don't get how you can ask for Moria, Rebecca, and Lucci to be banned when you yourself admit that other colors are getting equal if not more powercreep in 09 and 10. I wonder if you will have this same take when OP11 comes around. Yeah, it sucks that these cards are OP, but let's not pretend that there aren't other cards like Blue 4c Jinbe that completely break the game even if they are somewhat restricted by comparison. To me, it feels like people just cry about Black, not because Moria, Rebecca, and Lucci are OP (weird you didn't mention Ice Age, which enables literally every other black card in existence), but because Black as a color feels bad for the opponent to play into, and this gets tunneled visioned upon the most problematic cards which are the aforementioned ones.
I don't think Jinbe is broken, it's that they printed a massive amount of 4c warlords in these recent starters that are specifically designed to work with doffy. Run warlords package in Boa and you still come up short against a ton of the meta. That being said, I absolutely think it's insane that they printed so much ridiculously powerful support for Jinbe in the new starter, but that's not really the fault of Jinbe's base design - they made these combos intending for them to be used this way which is Not a Good Decision imo. Re: Ice age, that card is mostly good because it combos with the archetype breakers. I do think it's overtuned numbers-wise, but it's much more fair than something like 4c lucci.
@@real_joshuaTV You have a good point about Jinbe having so much good support that it just feels like Jinbe is too strong, especially due to how it tailors to Doffy like you said. That feeling is kind of similar to Moria though, when you think about it. Of course, Moria is not restricted to Warlords, but still. I do expect this Warlords package to become a problem (at some point) even outside of Doffy. Ice Age enables a lot of bs, let's be honest here. -5 cost for 1 don is overtuned, and the trigger can be swingy in certain matchups. I'm 100% on board with Moria, Rebecca and Lucci being too strong, but considering Moria just got reprinted and Lucci Leader has not seen a ban for yet, and probably won't, I don't expect either Moria or 4c Lucci to get banned. Like, at all. Rebecca I could see being banned and I think she's the main issue the more I play the game, not only because of what the card does by itself but due to how it combos with Moria. The one thing that irritates me whenever this discussion comes up is that some people will say "Oh but it's fine if black is bad, black doesn't have to be a good color", like what kind of logic is that? You want Black to be weak while every other color also gets stronger? Pick one, either nerf black but keep the other colors in check or don't nerf black and powercreep the other colors. Some people seem to hate Black so much that at some point they're going to start asking for the entire color to be banned. I think banning Rebecca and/or limiting Moria is a good enough solution. It's not perfect, but it's better than the current state of affairs.
I was so excited to play smoker, but was instantly annoyed that I would have to still add Moria and Rebecca to be competitively viable. It's so boring, to see the same cards over and over again. And it's completely broken, let's be honest. What is wrong with Bandai?
@@HIMO37089 You can build without them but then yeah, your deck is becoming incredibly weak. That being said, staples cards exist for a purpose: to be good and to be massively played. Other colors also have absolute staples. Other card games too. You can't really get away from this except if you play for fun only and don't mind getting crushed at tournaments
Black Maria ain’t really a problem just pop her once kaido activates affect , I easily pop her same way every game then next turn they have no don then that’s game, with lucci they needa use most of there don to drop your cost down cause he only drops a 2c and 1 cost ain’t really a problem and Moria ain’t really a problem either I’ve never really had a problem play against him, Rebecca is only good with Moria , the biggest problems to me is blue sanji he drops another 9 cost , and green Zoro he basically attacks up to 3 times and finishes everytime , I use a basic non meta Belo Betty deck and my only problems are against green bonney , nami and doffy are easy for me , lucci and smoker are a lil hard but even and green Bonney and Yamato beat my ass lol
In all honesty the deckbuilding has gotten so stale for me in the game I'm losing interest. Right now every deck is just "Can it beat black?" and the answer is usually no. Even beyond that though, every meta deck is just running the same staples with a few variations. I'm just tired of seeing the same cards in every game, and 90% of the time when a new set drops it only introduces a handful of new cards, but with no rotation and the same decks being good for over a year now they just pick up a few new toys and you see the same cards over and over. Also I hate that Bandai is too afraid to print hard counters. If we don't get a way to interact with the graveyard in other colors, black will just keep being OP because they get 2 hands. The ONLY card we got is Brook (who is black btw) and they get to choose the card to put back in their deck. We NEED to be able to punish graveyard interactions in some meaningful way or it will always be the best strategy, every other TCG has learned this lesson at this point.
There's only 1 good black deck (by luffy its really not a 'black' deck) . Moria lucci and rebecca? You want people to never play black again i guess? Everyone who says this stuff is just someone playing horrible decks and getting crushed by lucci, thinking moria is the problem instead of their terrible deck. If moria lucci and rebecca where so good, then there'd be more black decks in the meta. ST 14 luffy uses moria, and its not even very good in that deck, doesn't even run lucci, and rebecca is very much meh there.
idk man i played smoker since the begining of the game. I like the black decks. You know black was really weak and kinda unplayable till gecko came out. Thats the only card in black which will give u some tempo. If you ban gecko and rebecca well GG you will kill all the black Decks. And in my opinion in the current meta and especially upcoming meta with op09 black will fall off.. There are a lot of hard matchups ... blue for example will have their whole board played out in round 4. Yellow will slowly trash your life. red rushes you extremely fast down. How do u imagine to keep up the tempo with black decks without Gecko?
Lol yeah i dont think maria is broken either, but man. I've lamented time and time again how loaded full of value it is. it's all minor things too like for starters For such a strong activate why in the world does she not rest herself XD , secondly and maybe more of a pet peeve. If her main drawback of Only being able to have 1 out, exists. WHY GIVE HER 2k counter man lmao. it's funny to me cus you NEVER feel punished by the fact you can only have 1. cus as soon as you play her you functionally just get to have 2k's in hand. I get the stipulation is because you dont want people to be able to +10 don!! but man. 2k???? really??? lmao in my personal opinion on paper i do like gecko thematically and the archtype he creates, however in practice it doesn't end up CREATING a new archtype it is a catalyst for already strong archtypes. I've never been opposed to leader locking cards honestly. I personally do like that you can kind of pin each color to have "that card" that is their powerhouse that you have to play around. The issue i find most with moria is the lack of truly playing in game around it effectively. The best you can do is hope they dont have it. Where realistically i CAN play around pudding or grav blade, I can play around triggers, and so on with a not so detrimental strat. with moria what do you do? not kill their guys so they dont get extra on plays down the road? GL having the counter to survive i guess. also for me personally I enjoy him as a staple piece to be a threat - the problem for me personally arises when gecko grabs a rebecca and breaks the cost parody that he is suppose to impose. and then leads to higher values than what gecko is suppose to be grabbing. This in tandem with decks like lucci then spandime cost climbing can get wild. I said this when i was getting into the game coming from magic - i kind of just wish there were more Low threat "answers" to some things. Realistcally outside interacting with opponents characters its incredibly hard to interact with someones gameplan. you kind of need to rely on you strat being stronger than theirs rather than having disruption. Maybe this is why when you see it in some places it feels so strong - like pudding. But i wish there was graveyard disruption in, and something that bugged me forever is how there isnt at least 1 card in each color that is just like a metiocre card - but can deal with a stage. I think stages generally best examplify the issue im talking about. I think you can count on 1 hand the number of cards that interact with opponent stages. as much as i can recall its just something in kalgara ya? not sure. so for some decks you can just make a turn 1 play, that will continually every turn generate value for you, that your opponent can't interact with unlike a character? and realistically the same can almost be said for graveyard based strategies. In magic there is a term, and funnily enough a deck archtype i was always fond of "Hatebears" a deck largely comprised of 2 drop 2/2 or lower mediocre cards, but each does something against some strategy. Effectively making the entire deck a toolbox of control based creatures. I wish we had a cycle of cards in OP with the similar idea, middling stat creatures, or events that can in some way hate out archtypes. I think they generally are healthy for games as it rewards the player and deckbuilder for having a grasp on their meta, which i feel matters more so in a BO1 format. and yanno sometimes you risk drawing that "ace in the hole" versus soemthing like a rush zoro deck, and low in behold it does NOTHING.
talks about sanji and other character being fair because you have to set it up, then says you play rob lucci and ko two characters. You have to set up every card, if you don't have enough cost removal, rob lucci is just a brick. The blue rebecca isn't black so it's not going to play from trash, blue does build trash. gecko is busted just like other cards.
i get Yourpoint about banning cards that generating to much value or doing to much in an Ressource based card game but you say basically all cards expect 3 cards of black and one card from purple are fine and i mean that is not entirely true and if you ban all of these 3 cards or change them the decks would not be worse there would be dead in an Meta way you could play these decks but not in the meta you would kill lucci smoker there would be fun decks and i mean other colours have otherways of generating a lot of value yellow life trigger etc and so on so you want to change something i get it but it is still not the correct way to ban these cards and colour idendity is a thing indeed but black always where removel and crap things from trash i mean it starts with rebecca and than there do gecko and black get most of the time only removal and filtering
While I agree that Moria and Rebecca should be type locked, at this point, most black decks can not function without them. So banning them is a lose/lose situation, and I doubt they will errata the cards at this point.
I do think cards like black maria shouldve been leader locked but also they shouldnt leader lock everything because why the fuck is charlotte angel leader locked bigmom pirates dont want to play that the other yellow decks arent gonna be playing it why cant I farm life in BY ace bandai literally the only leader it could see useful play in
Hard disagree on Black Maria. Purple is such a hard color to balance because of the don return. That's why most purple leaders are really bad. The only purple leaders (apart from Law who was just unreasonable from the start) which ever saw success were purely ramp based leaders like the Luffys. But purple decks which rely on reducing don every turn, without having a card like Black Maria, they are basically impossible to ever keep up. I am talking your Iceburg and Foxy and Z. Leaders that are designed to work anything like this (which as you put it is the very identity of purple) have no chance to ever even just work out without Black Maria. And she won't even be searchable in those decks either. So ban Black Maria and you ruin half of purple's color identity for the future.
And yes, of course I am aware that none of those leaders I mentioned are viable at the moment but without Black Maria, there is even less potential for a deck like that to ever be viable in the future. And as a purple player myself, I find purely ramp decks way less interesting mechanically than don reduction style decks which basically break completely free from the fixed don curve.
Coming from Mtg what leaves a feel bad in my mouth playing against black isn’t all their removal, or recurring bodies from trash. It’s them removing my stuff while also adding substantial bodies to the board as well.
Ya black is so dumb. Like they constantly nerf black just to give them better tools next set. It's why they have been prominent for so long in the meta. Like how about nerfing Black and treating them like they treat green for a few sets
@@Martyrules dude like i mean black is strong but why all people want black dead i mean people have fun at black so let them play what there want
Spot on
worst black ability is to force you to discard cards so you just sit there not playing for hours - how is that a fun game. and they made forced discard abilities only cost 1 mana on top of revealing your hand
I was playing my friends gecko moria deck and honestly playing him in that deck feels so fair. Its wild that they don't already leader lock these cards when so many other cards seem almost forced into their leaders without any real payoff (like majority of the minks beside carrot+pedro or the whitebeard package) Like if rebecca was only played in dressrosa or gecko moria was only thriller bark leaders, this would make so much more sense to me.
thats why you look to the decks that play the cards unfairly. dont ban the card because a single deck abuses it. ban the card that makes it broken in that deck. if gecko is busted in lucci, find the card that makes it busted in lucci, (spandine)
I think the logic comes from the show/manga. Whitebeard and his crew normally fought together and their reasons to fight was normally to protect each other so them being locked makes sense(Same with the Minks minus the ones listed, carrot was with strawhats a lot and pedro was on whole cake while the rest were still on Zou). Moria in the show does stuff that isn't just Thriller Bark and his most powerful shadows aren't from TB either so makes sense why he does for everything 4 and below. Also as the TCG progresses they will add more and more powerful cards to stop it like Blackbeard next set
If all 8+ cost cards were leader/type locked, that would have created a super diverse meta. A huge number of leaders would feel unique with their own identity and be viable.
@omercora I don't think that would be good for the game for anyone except fans of certain decks. A mix is fine, especially one really powerful ones like Moria or 10Mom, but others like 10Ace are really there just to make sure your color actually does something.
That also kills deck creating creativity
The deck creativity lol.. you mean the same 3 cards in the same 3 decks over and over again for 4 sets?
@@butregenyo_yavrusu one piece is still a very young TCG. So yes the more we get new leaders and different characters yes it would be more vastly different....
@@butregenyo_yavrusu Yeah but then you would just run into that with the decks that actually did get the tools to compete. You are just trading one problem for another and you will get the same result while alienating people. That would also put card value in the toilet, and potentially kill the game. Imagine if any of the Secrets from the last six sets were leader locked. No value and frankly less fun than the game is now, which is pretty fun still.
As you touched on in the video: the part I find most annoying, is that Bandai seems to always print counters to a colour in that colour. Sick of getting KO'd by effects? Play characters with effects that raise their cost making them harder to KO (all black), or cards like Borsa and Sabo blocker (both black). Sick of Sabo blocker protecting the board? Play cards that "trash" characters (which are also black).
The counters to black (and every color) should be in a different colour, so that certain colours have a natural advantage. So if the meta is all black you could play, say, green or whatever, to naturally counter black.
100% agree. Thats so stupid. In order to counter black you have to black too? So others have to play black to counter you. Like what?
Most banish cards are in yellow
I was playing Kalgara at locals the other day, and i played out the 6c Kalgara into 5c Noland heal combo. My opponent looked shocked, asked to read my cards, then made a comment along the lines of "6 don for 11 don worth of characters? Broken, Bandai made a mistake. Yellow can do everything". That was not a joke statement.
I looked up at him, incredulously slow blinking, as he started his turn and proceeded to pop both my characters with an ice age/Moria combo.
Black does feel very uncontrolled right now. I'd love to have leader locking, or type locking going on within these cards. The fact that Moria doesnt just revive thriller bark is crazy, and like it was mentioned in the video, Lucci's 'return 3 cards to deck' is not a cost, especially when they can be the Moria's you thought you didnt have to worry about anymore. I'm so shocked considering other cards in the archetype specify they return 'CP' cards only.
My biggest complaint, and the reason i wont play black decks, is that so many black lists turn out similar with only a differently flavoured leader. I was so excited for ST14 Luffy, black decks were all over my locals and this seemed a decent counter. Imagine my horror, when my strawhat-centred build was abandoned for the most generic 46 black cards in existence, plus 4 of the ST14 Sanji. Even the stage is gone now in a lot of lists. Black decks have become unimaginative and boring, and these cards are a lot of the issue.
I'm waiting for op09 to play BB. My first black deck is will keep since gecko/rebecca/lucci won't be in the deck.
The first black deck that will be fun to play imo
If c8 Moria was type locked (like the c4 moria from op09 that returns a 2 cost thriller bark) it would be a lot better for the game.
I usually play the JP Meta, but when I think about banning stuff I always look at other decks on the same collor that run those cards to see how well they are doing on the meta. Taking black as a example, we have Smoker that even using those 3 cards (yes, I've seen Lucci on Smoker's deck) can't compete at high level. Now we have Doffy being the biggest problem in Japan, the meta goes all around it, sometimes with Lucci coming right after it, cycling to Bonney/Shanks and after that BY Luffy/BlackBeard in a rock, paper, scizors loop. If you take all those cards from Doffy and use it with any other Leader (Boa/Zoro&Sanji), it will suffer the same fate as Smoker. It's true that some cards are extremelly strong all by itself, but for me it's the leader + those cards that breaks the game. If Lucci didn't trash 2 cards with every attack it would be harder to set up, and if Doffy wasn't able to bring another body with it's skill (2 if it pulls a Jinbei) every single turn, Jinbei wouldn't be set as broken.
This is true in all honesty. The leaders that become meta due to how well they abuse these cards are ultimately what is causing most of the problems, even if the support cards themselves are OP.
Gecko needs to be locked to only being able to revive “thriller bark” types
I like how it is. It's closer to how the actual character works in the anime/manga. I think to nerf it a little bit both characters can come in rested or it can work normally but only the active character gets on play effects or something similar
@ blue gecko is typed locked to revival already the precedent is established and doesn’t kill the card.
Also it’s cool that some cards follow the anime/mangas abilities but cards do not have to emulate that every time.
@@JakeHayes44 well yeah we already have a gecko that's a staple card. Don't need another staple gecko card, so that makes sense the future one is locked especially when blue already has a lot of stables currently
@@Martyrules It should be locked to Thriller Bark leader, so they have to work to fill their trash in order to benefit from the effects of the other cards
@@chrislaalo3965 I rather it be restricted then locked or the suggestions I have prior. There's more busted blue cards that aren't locked. Every color has a busted stable card
I want to see a world where rebecca is banned before moria is because she is the enabler of the worst moria interactions. One of the positive sides of moria is that it enables really interesting combos in decks that are multicolored with black. And even in a black deck the choice of wether to remove something on your opponents board with lucci/absolom and cost reduction, or make a defensive play with a blocker plus a searcher is fine and is pretty comporable in power to say playing an 8 cost kid + rosinante, or ko'ing anything rested with shanks, or healing plus ko a chump with yamato. But when you get to both remove the opponents board AND establish a blocker AND draw a card AND are still playing a 9k body yourself, that is where the problem is.
I always say that moria on his own is not the problem, but the targets he has are. Sanji has a similar problem but it's the opposite. He would be just as strong as moria if there were more powerful blue 9 cost cards. Even if 9 cost Mihawk could hit an 8/9 cost instead of 7, that would be a massive sanji buff. I don't agree that it is difficult to stack your deck in blue. Sure you have to plan for it, but also the color identity of blue is around stacking your deck, and many cards allow you to plan around that gameplan, if you don't like it on your turn 1 perona, you can bottom deck them and try again on your 3 don turn with doffy blocker, or your 5 don turn with ace, or any future cards that might support this gameplan in a world where blue recieves a meaningful boss character to synergize with sanji. And you can say the same thing about black not guaruntee'ing that the right cards will be in their trash for their moria play. Not likely the later the game goes, but not unreasonable to expect your 8/10 don morias to not be full force.
That's a lot of yapping to just say I think moria is a really cool and interesting card, and the possibilities for his interactions with other cards and multicolored leaders is why he wasn't leader locked in the first place. It is just one part of an incredibly toxic combo and as the first card you play for the combo, it's easy to look at it and lay the blame on moria, and maybe rightfully so, but I think a large part of the frustration, as pointed out by others already, lies in the fact that counters to a type are given to the same color causing the problem. If more decks had access to momentary ko immunity, moria in general would be a lot weaker.
I think if Black Maria was an On Play, it would be less egregious. like sure it would make her worse, but you'd get her effect a single time
Or just have her rested to use her effect.
@@TacticalDimplesExactly
Just leader lock maria to animal kingdom and then stuff like reiju can't abuse her on top of everything else she does
@RyanSchilling-u6m reiju is clearly not the problem. It's whatever is gonna come in 6 months to a year, that will abuse this that is the problem
@alexmh1139 that's why you leader lock her to animal kingdom. The likelihood of some busted purple animal kingdom is not as likely as just a busted purple leader
Have Bandai said anything about their stance on limiting copies rather than bans? I feel like that would help in this scenario. Coming from ygo, limits just made sense to allow deck enabling cards but making them less consistent/oppressive. In this case gecko and similarly jinbe enables a lot of off meta decks to stand a chance. Would limiting these cards to 2-3 be more fair than straight ban?
These things are why our group play "faction locked One Piece" with small exceptions , for example pound (whole cake island) can be played in a Big Mom pirates deck.
It also gives more "lore accurate" decks
Moria breaks blacks identity the most. Black is a mid-range combo color with resource management. The moment you play a 9k Boss Monster that re-creates your normal combo plays for free you basicaly broke the whole playstyle.
Without Moria Black Decks would play very combo heavy with very little big bodys.
The big bodys in black either setup the next turn or does the mid-range combo stuff but as one play and a bit stronger.
Moria does both.
You have very rarely a big body on the field in Black, because they directly contradict the combo playstyle.
the thing is, that playstyle is too slow. you cannot effectively set up combos when most other decks will out advantage you with their resource gain.
The community almost entirely agrees in their dislike of nami, because you don't get to interact with the deck. Yet somehow they don't seem to have a problem with black making it so you barely ever get to untap your characters. People are really out here defending black and all it's nonsense. Card game communities have a problem with the way they think and this really highlights it.
I think spandine is a huge issue. Gecko plays should have to choose between blockers/value or removal, getting potentially 2 2ks back to hand and a blocker while removing 2 bodies is the biggest issue. Outside of the spandine combo gecko is still quite powerful but at minimum i think that combo needs to go.
I think Moria is their third biggest mistake. Bottom decking is their first and making Uta RP instead of GP was their second lmao.
I agree, Moria would’ve been fine if there was a cost like play 2 cards then return a ton of cards from trash to prevent repeated Moria plays or just discard cards from hand to go neutral. And I think requiring you to rest your Black Maria to use her effect wouldve made her more balanced.
And then there’s green. They’re given these two good effects (freeze and restanding/resting cards) but then are given almost no tools to use them. Why aren’t there more cards that can rest other cards (characters and don)? Or counters that can rest cards? Why do they constantly get archetype locked even when their effects aren’t even that strong? And why do they have to jump through so many hoops to use mediocre effects while every other color can just do things that are more game changing for similar or almost no cost. And why is resting a unit so cost restricted?
Vinsmoke Judge has a more powerful effect, but is fair because it involves more setup and is locked to Raiju, Judge is her thing. Gecko is... the opposite of that. Every black deck, EVERY SINGLE ONE, runs it at a 4 of. That indicates to me that it is actively broken. No card should be a straight up autoinclude.
-I think there's some good takeaways in here (answers for colors need to be printed in other colors, leader locking, etc)but also some overlooked information. for starters, Black only started seeing a solid road to viability in set 6 and beyond with the release of the thriller bark cards. Sure saka existed, but it was the blue cards that carried the deck. The ramp of what is considered "fair" for black cards to accomplish has risen as a direct result of poor rollout from Bandai in making black cohesive. We went through red, yellow, and now black being exclusively dominant with "broken" cards from each so it's not unreasonable at all for bandai to print a card like 8c moria at the time and think its more or less fine.
-Additionally you had made a statement regarding 9c Sanji that the card isn't good because it requires setup that you might not have. the same can be said for any deck that needs to see specific pieces to work; Black being the poster child for this statement as it needs to 1) see 8c moria(unsearchable), 2) have the correct pieces in trash for the situation to make the combo effective, 3) must have pruned the board state prior to the Moria turn to ensure the combo gets there, and 4)(situational) have an additional piece of reduction in hand. That's an awful lot of setup and it requires so many concessions in deck construction that ultimately make you weaker to some matchups. prior to 8.5 Lucci lists are running 8-9 2ks max and relying on rebecca to recycle them. This means you often just have to take cheap shots.
-regarding each individual card
--rebecca- was printed during a format where the best she could do was play out a hina and add a 2k. this always required an additional card to combo with to be really effective.
--lucci- again printed in an era where popping 2 low costs didnt really break the game, as katakuri was still top table. I do agree that it's too well stated and there isnt a real cost to using it.
--moria- yes we know this card is amazing. Frankly it has to be if we want black to pay a hand cost to pop characters, as comboing with rebecca and cp/navy searchers is the only way black has to increase their hand size(recycling low # of 2ks especially). Again this is a deliberate choice you can't always make depending on the gamestate.
The real challenge is that if we ban cards like this, how do we then supplement black to the point it can stand against the creature vomit of other decks without that solution feeling like another moria?
100% agree. Its a tough job designing a game with a good balance of cards that can go in any of that color and a number of leader locked. But gecko was a mistake
The idea of to counter black use black.. its insane
The time for most of these bans is well past us. The meta is moving away from Black as the top deck.
Moria should be 2 per deck and be fine because you won't see back to back Moria, which is the real problem. One Moria isn't game-breaking.
Discarding for black was never worth it. That's why Black wasn't good til Lucci.
This is the disagreement comment i'm most on board with. The powercreep in other colors is happening so that they can catch up with Moria. I think it's an interesting approach but it does feel like too little too late, we already went through 3 sets of black dominance.
Re: black/Moria being pushed out of the meta, I think it's worth noting that all it takes is one starter or a couple good cards (Think ST13/BY Luffy) to re-break moria.
I've mentioned this in other comments, but coming from other card games, which I have heard is common for OPTCG, it is so strange to me that more people don't think black is a problem.
Black didn't need Jack. Black didn't need who's who. I understand that they intended for King to be viable in OP08, and they added AK support, but why is there so little restraint shown for that color? That same attitude is what got RP Law banned. They will just keep getting themselves into these scenarios if they don't leader lock these cards.
It is so insane how many people complain about Nami's "solitaire" when black is right there actively removing your board AND building theirs up in the mean time. They never even need to tap out. All their best guys have been less than 9C, so they always have 1 to 2 free don to poke you with WHILE ADVANCING THEIR BOARD AND HURTING YOURS! The most insulting part is that black's best counter IS ALSO BLACK!! Insane that OPTCG, Cardas and Bandai are just ignoring the dumpster fire that is black and what it is actively doing to this game. I'm really appreciative that my locals have enough sense to mostly not play black because it ruins the game for everyone until grinding season starts.
Black Maria is a problem because of a bigger design issue: Currently only Purple does -don stuff, when really this should've been one of the core concepts of the game. Think about it if you're fighting against a deck that keeps being at low don like say Reiju or Iceburg with Black Maria you're still forced to be at equal don with them at the end of your turn. Low Don decks should've been a thing for more colors.
Bandai teased at this from the start with Starter Crocodile having a -4 don effect but for some reason Bandai walked the fuck back from that. Any problematic card would be way more reasonable if they had -1 or -2 tied to them. Imagine if Moria or Lucci or Rebecca had -2 don attached to whatever they do.
I was thinking about this lately myself. It would be nice to see more cards like 7C Jack with the +4 to cost text added to cards that is not black, or cards that say like "as long as this card is on the field your opponent cannot put cards into hand or play anything from trash", or red and blue cards that say "this card cannot be rested by your opponents effects". Giving other colors a way to counter a color.
@@OhNoACamera at least these cards are slowly rolling out. Next set we're getting the buggy that prevents 3 or 4 costs from attacking, we are getting Usopp leader the set after that will up cost and we have cards like Hawkings to prevent any removal if you meet the conditions. I will say though. Black doesn't need to get more tools right now. They keep removing black tools to give them better ones next set which is a little infuriating because why even ban the other thing then?
I saw the thumbnail and i was like yea
I've only started playing a month ago and ive noticed that every black deck regardless of leader plays like the same cards because they're so generically good
I just think units with a cost 5 or less, so cards you can consistently play 2 of in a turn. Should only have 1 trait(rush, blocker, double attack, banish) and 1 additional effect(like recover or play card from grave, draw, search, play card, etc.) or a second trait. Exceptions would be cards that have a cost like black sabo which makes you discard 2 to activate its destruction protection. Yes it enables black but it can force them to potentially discard a key piece or counters in a risky situation. Unlike rebecca which gives you recovery and and an on play while also being a blocker, also that new boa is a whole other issue but rebecca has been annoying for longer and is an on going example of the bigger issue.
Agh so good to see a breakdown like this. Moria started something in the TCG that actually ruined the game for me. I was already a bit concerned with luchi but when moria came out that was it
So im mainly a digimon player who dabbles in one piece on the side(mainly play P kaido and rp luffy) so take it with a grain of salt but here's my take being halfway through the video.
Small preamble colors in digimon are alot like colors in one piece in terms of what they do mechanically, though with digimon it has the added flavor of usually having specific types of digimon locked to specific colors(dragons in red, beasts in blue, bugs in green etc). And as a color black to my experience more or less works the same being deleting based on play cost and generally being on a defensive color(moreso in digimon). But it seems like they took black and purple from digimon(mainly messing with the grave and such) and just mashed them together which...yeah is alot.
All this to say yeah black is wild, like I love moria on his own as a character and everything but man is his card insane. Like him rebecca and imo (5c)sabo is apart of what I like to call the three musketeers of black. In almost any black deck it feels like you're gonna be playing some combination of them just because they're way too good to pass up. To the point where it'd be tantamount to throwing the game to not be playing them. Sometimes even all three of them.
In digimon we had something similar to what moria does in a deck called Anubis Merva which effectively did what moria did but you got to get guys on board that could attack the same turn, draw you a card, and pop something on board. Anubismon eventually was limited thank yggdrasil but is a good testament to why you really probably shouldn't print cards like moria or anubismon because we end up with stuff like this.
Ps: please dont take away my black maria I need her so badly 😭
Honestly I feel that if Moria was limited to 1 it would solve everything that makes black broken
The Ideia of Gecko bringing characters from the trash is awesome fits very well with the history! But also in the history Moria's zombies are nerfed! Character could come with some down side like -1000 power, or "no on play can be activated when a zombie come to play" something like that maybe the card wasbt to Op
That's a great idea -- or just keep with the zombie theme and turn the resurrected cards in to generic beaters or somethings. Remove their on-plays, etc -- make it so it's more so used for getting 4/5k bodies on the board or something
Maybe a way to nerf Moria without bans or reprints would be to add a general rule that says something along the lines of "If a character enters the field rested it's on play abilities cannot be activated."
Well in that case OP09 Lim wouldn't even be a deck, since her characters are palyed rested. I like the idea, of restricting the on play abilities if a character comes into play as rested, but I don't think it would solve the problem.
New rebecca is a bad example because blue / rebecca leader has much better card draw that leader is built around having a big hand which is my bigger issue with banning to many of these cards i think there are actually a more cards you would have to get rid of; pilaf, edward weevil, reiju, although i do think an overhaul would make sense and replace gecko with leader locked replacements for by / gecko, make rebecca leader locked, make lucci leader locked etc
I think one thing that I feel like people don't talk about enough is how efficient black is able to reduce cost to perform these plays that people hate, like ice age is an insane card, could you imagine if red had a card that was 1 don reduce anything by 5k, or for 1 don if you have 2 or less life give a character -3k and draw a card
They should implement card limit on certain cards ( ie limit on Gecko 1-2 max instead of 4)
I think the problem is not moria using trash for free or having efficient ko like lucci... the problem lies in not giving equal means to compete to other colors like big card draw (we dont use trash but we have bigger hand), +cost to characters or cannot be ko effects
I agree with everything you said in this video. Even more so on Moria. Just too powerful a play. Now, my rant is: yellow is the new black, and it feels very bad. At the beggining, yellow's gimmick was "yay, trigger. Get me free blockers on board" Now its like "yay, trigger. Let's clear the enemy's board for free, build our board, heal ourselves, and even rest..." Like, wtf man... It's like yellow doesnt know what it wants to be, so it is a lot of everything. So overtuned cards and leaders. I despise the healing mechanic, but it was "alright" as it's sole thing (play around with lives). Right now it feels just bad knowing that yellow can pull a dozen tricks out of Doraemons bat.
def wish more leader locking was done for sure. I'm a fan of jank, so ofc that means I had to run a full Cipher Pol deck for the new Lucci leader. It's fun, but the difference between full Cipher Pol, adding rebecca, and then adding moria is insane. In it's own archetype, the cards feel fair bc your hand size actually shrinks, but altogether, its a bit of a mess and not very fun for anyone involved. Even just adding rebecca makes the deck so much better, now combine that with moria lmao
Well we saw that something like Rebecca and Moria hasn't happened again since op06(I don't count Black Maria because Law got the Axe), so they are paying more attention in character design. The Question is whether they keep Rebecca and Moria in the Game. In my opinion, they should ban them and give Moria and Rebecca a substitution. Yes, Black should be able to keep up afterwards, but i think having them out of the picture for one or two sets and figuring out how to balance those cards out helps the game in the long run
If the meta is flood the board then the game needs viable board wipes. if the meta is black's removal and trash recursion then there needs to be ways to interact with the trash and ways to protect your board that arent in black. the fact that sabo protects from k.o. while being in black is another card that rarely gets mentioned but is equally baffling card design
Could really benefit from some form of generic banishment/trash removal effect as black counter play methinks.
@@gee_woahwith how things are going, a card like that will be printed as a black card.
I would like to see a really systematic approach based on fun factor honestly. That includes mechanical uniqueness as well as hitting the fewest decks. The first hits I would like to see for black "recursion" for example is Spandine, then if that doesn't work ban Rebecca, then if that doesn't work ban Moria, making the intentions clear all along the way. Lucci should probably go away, but without Spandine I think he is a lot more reasonable.
Imo ice age is algo a problem. 1 don for a -5 is wayyy too much
Like how is my character now a -1 off a 1 Don card?
Leader locking or setting a card limit to certain decks is better in my opinion. I say this with bias tho. As I have just traded for 4 black maria, only to use them in a zephr deck.
I only agree with Gecko leader locked. If you ban everything that's good then you're just going to complain about the next best thing. Leader locking actual problem cards would fix this.
Black maria isn't really doing anything. It can limit card design in the future but it definitely isn't a problem right now. People also hate on black really hard but if lucci didn't exist then law and dofy would have both been tier 0 decks and people would just complain about those. Card games will always have decks that are above the rest so I don't think anything needs to be done. It would be weird to hit the SECOND best deck lol. Nami needs to be addressed before anything else tbh. That deck is awful for the game imo
He’s not saying Lucci shouldn’t exist, but the cost to use his effect isn’t even a cost to begin with. Same with Moria. Everything should have a cost in this game because it’s based on value. But when you give one color the ability to use the trash for value, it throws off the balance of the game.
@@TacticalDimples lucci requires other cards to remove things and moria requires set up throughout the entire game. It's strong don't get me wrong but dofy is swinging for 7k and bringing out 8 don worth of characters for 1 don. How are we gonna address the SECOND best deck when dofy is doing that?
8:03 i will say they shouldn’t ban it but ban the card that one cp that plays on top of rebbeca and will also stack to play lucci
Enjoyed the in-depth discussion about these problem cards. Good work.
my issues with your arguments are this.
black maria: its fine. no deck outside of AKP and reiju play her. the card isnt really relevant, and while yes she ramps a crazy amount, it still takes a whole turn to use her, or you play her and hope she doesnt die because her cost and power makes her the easiest card to remove for any color.
rebecca: is fine. black as a whole suffers from its hand advantage issues, especially the navy archetype. this helps fix it.
lucci: yes he has vanilla stats and can remove 2 characters. but like it still takes multiple cards for him to even think about doing that effectively. his "cost" is also fine when the decks that can play him often cycle or mill through their deck like crazy. its fine.
gecko is also fine. its only certain combinations of cards that make gecko broken. its an 8c card. it should have a really good effect. its THE boss of the thriller bark archetype, and is a tool that black needed as a whole. outside of saka, black was mid. he only helps them do better.
i argue that the problem is spandine. you remove that card and suddenly lucci cannot wall up and remove the board at the same time.
gecko already has to choose. lucci should too.
yes its frustrating to lose to them alot, but these cards are here to stay and i believe that they are not the worst things we can see played.
I don't think the bans are necessary, I feel its too late for that, but rather I feel they are only as ridiculously strong as they are due to leaders abusing them so easily (yes they are op alone, but leader abuse it pushes it too far).
I feel that its time other colours got more cards and the ability to counter things outside of their own colour (why does black have the only counter to black etc?)
I see what the issue is, however, and understand why people are wanting the bans, but I feel there is a better solution than to cripple an entire colour bc of a few strong cards 😅
I remember when i first started playing and someone was explaining the rundown of black. I go oh yeah black does black things like in magic... They had no idea thats what it did in mtg lol 😂
Black Maria isn't a problem. It's a necessity for High Don Return decks like ST Kaido and St Shanks
Agree to some aspects. I would agree that overtuning cards is terrible for the game. As making only fast decks would just make this game like hearthstone. Draw perfect curve or die. I would rather see them errattad then banned.
why would they not make black maria have to rest to activate her effect. if you do that she gets her effect maybe once, and the only way you get it again is if you invest a lot in defending or if your opponent decides to ignore it
100% agree. I’ve always brought up the fact that Lucci is broken and it’s overlooked by Moria. 4c, 6k, broken ability, and 1k counter?! Honestly! I don’t think Moria is anywhere near as effective without Lucci. However, in tandem, it’s near unbeatable. It can/will never be outclassed no matter what sort of power creep or card mechanics Bandai adds. You either get destroyed by a 9k&6k, or you run the risk of having Lucci come back repetitively to control board… Most of the time, Lucci isn’t even hard played. Good players will counter with him early just to ensure it comes out with Moria.
You know it’s broken when the only win condition is getting lucky they don’t draw Moria. It’s not good game design.
Just chiming in that 4c lucci actually doesn’t have any counter, which makes it pretty bad in the hand sometimes, but I do agree it is very strong in many instances
@ My mistake!! Well, they do it with 3c Brook. lol
Banning Moria? Absolutely, card shouldn't be in the game as it is given they released Judge and limited him to his own archetype in the same set.
Lucci and Rebecca? At this point, nah. Lucci as of now is kinda specific and really only relegated to Lucci leader (who, because of his continued relevance going into OP09/10, might end up on the chopping block) since Eruption has left the game. Other black leaders like black Luffy, Smoker, etc can't use him well because they can't fill that grave quick enough the way decks like Sakazuki and 07Lucci did/do.
Now that other colors are starting to get swarm and better removal, Rebecca feels a lot more fine than she did back in set 5 and 6 where she absolutely was 100% banworthy then.
Completely disagree with you on all bans. They need a semi limit list
Moria1-2
Rebecca2
Lucci 2
Black Maria 1-2
Why isn't Jinbe there? Or Ice Age?
I also agree with jinbe, or at least some seven warlords stuff. The fact that I'm seeing the seven warlords package in every blue deck on the sim should be a good indicator 😑.
@@jedwilson1233I’ve even seen some 7 warlords Rebecca.
Because he doesn't know what he is talking about. He is ignoring that Lucci has always been about returning cards to the trash and interacting with that trash- Bluno, 5 drop Kaku, new Kaku, spandine but yet 4 drop lucci is a problem card :/
Ehh I kinda disagree. Moria only seems broken because of Rebecca. After playing lucci alot lately it really does seem difficult to always get the proper cards in trash to get the spandine/lucci play off. Nerfing lucci would be terrible for the meta because doffy would completely run away with the meta. Doffy board spamming is way more broken in my opinion.
I find it funny that bandi color locks the new purple luffy from st18 but don't color or leader lock these crazy impactful cards.
I would argue it's shown that they have learned that you need keep an eye on what you are releasing. It would be super busted if you could play the Black Sanji that KOs with him, both of which would be easy to play in the BP Luffy deck.
@kylemattinson7284 I would agree if they weren't doing this from beginning. 7 cost blue ivankov it's colored locked all the way back in set 2 but dident thin moria needed anything.
@roderickstevn in cases like that, where the card didn't see play, they might have found the card was undertuned, so they "turned the knobs" up on Moria, then turned them back down on Luffytaro.
@kylemattinson7284 it's possible
Agree with banning those 4 and I would add blue pudding I think that card is also a problem, just make it to disard two like law or something
Nah, there's needs to be some hand disruption in the game. Drawing 5 is a fair hand, imo.
Nah, I'm right on this one
Only spandine needs a ban tbh that card makes lucci unmanageable
I wish blue had more 7-9 cost boss monsters
Nah I think bandai would just give other colors more support at the end of the day it's a business and what's best for business is making more different cards that will produce more income into their pockets
They are never gonna ban moria, rebecca, or lucci bro, too many black decks revolve around these cards and if they got banned that would be gg for literally 80% of black decks. The only card i can see getting banned is black maria
I'm super new to the game, about a month, and I have no idea how black is allowed to do all of this. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong but against good players it feels unwinnable a lot of the times
I think we should limit them first like limit 1 moria per deck cause black decks are awful to play as
So basically you just dont want a graveyard archetype to exist in the game.
A graveyard archetype could exist if it actually lessened your hand resource to recur. Moria, Rebecca and Lucci are all free cards that don’t lessen your hand size and are able to put multiple bodies whilst also removing 2 opponent bodies. They just do too much for pretty much no cost.
1:24 sooooo basically gut 3 of blacks best cards? You ban Rebecca you hurt ussop, you ban Lucci you hurt the lucci decks most balanced card, you ban moria you make black go back to rely on hard draw. Leader/type locking isn't going to work either because that just makes the game boring
11:32 BY LUFFY in set 10 can be a supernova package
Gecko is overtuned for sure but if we are targeting the two for one black cards shouldn’t jinbe be in the conversation too. Being able to drop a four cost at any turn after your 4 DON turn for two bodies that can pressure all leaders except for 3 I think.
You sound silly. At that point we have to ban film Brook and 8c Kid. Blue hasn't even been good yet, we got the STs like 5 days ago 🤔
@ jinbe is a 4 cost that plays a 4 cost. Brook is a 4 cost that plays a 3 or less. Kid has to rest himself allowing for you to clear him before he becomes an issue and requires an additional DON for his “protection” effect. Jinbe literally just plays an extra body. With that don’t look at these cards in a vacuum. What crazy film 3 cost is Brook playing?
Also never said it should or has to be done but if you want to bring Rebecca into the conversation specifically then let’s talk about the cards that do something similar.
This video is a wild take. Just ban Lucci or Rebecca. I refuse to let anyone get away with black doesn’t get to be good while the Katakuri deck from set 3 has 900 triggers and big mom swing 7 every turn. Bonnie drags you through the mud and take away black KO and she just beats 8/10ths of the meta alone and she has Doffy which can solo swing a game into her favor from losing positions. It’s crazy for you to have these takes in this 8.5 meta going forward because Doffy is here and will unanimously be the best deck for the next 5 months. And it has a good matchup into Lucci. Want to do something else. Just ban lucci leader! It solves everything. You won’t have to play him. BY is hard checked by Doffy. Idk what you’re complaining about so hard when your savior doffy is here. Lucci in 8 was the best counter to law and Doffy in 09 for the East. The only reason you’re complaining about black now is cause Law isn’t here and Doffy has just begun. Wait, you’ll think Moria is perfectly fine. Cause they can’t even play him on 8 anymore. They just die to doffy.
They missed the perfect time to ban these before prb 01 was teased. Should have banned at least lucci or moria.
coming what it coming in op09 and op10 its like you dididnt see the macth up in Japan...
Just leaderlock Gecko to Thriller, Rebecca to Dressrosa & Maria to APK ! It s not that hard...
Am I the only one that feels like one piece should add a limit and simi limited list of cards
I don't get how you can ask for Moria, Rebecca, and Lucci to be banned when you yourself admit that other colors are getting equal if not more powercreep in 09 and 10. I wonder if you will have this same take when OP11 comes around.
Yeah, it sucks that these cards are OP, but let's not pretend that there aren't other cards like Blue 4c Jinbe that completely break the game even if they are somewhat restricted by comparison.
To me, it feels like people just cry about Black, not because Moria, Rebecca, and Lucci are OP (weird you didn't mention Ice Age, which enables literally every other black card in existence), but because Black as a color feels bad for the opponent to play into, and this gets tunneled visioned upon the most problematic cards which are the aforementioned ones.
I don't think Jinbe is broken, it's that they printed a massive amount of 4c warlords in these recent starters that are specifically designed to work with doffy. Run warlords package in Boa and you still come up short against a ton of the meta.
That being said, I absolutely think it's insane that they printed so much ridiculously powerful support for Jinbe in the new starter, but that's not really the fault of Jinbe's base design - they made these combos intending for them to be used this way which is Not a Good Decision imo.
Re: Ice age, that card is mostly good because it combos with the archetype breakers. I do think it's overtuned numbers-wise, but it's much more fair than something like 4c lucci.
@@real_joshuaTV You have a good point about Jinbe having so much good support that it just feels like Jinbe is too strong, especially due to how it tailors to Doffy like you said. That feeling is kind of similar to Moria though, when you think about it. Of course, Moria is not restricted to Warlords, but still. I do expect this Warlords package to become a problem (at some point) even outside of Doffy.
Ice Age enables a lot of bs, let's be honest here. -5 cost for 1 don is overtuned, and the trigger can be swingy in certain matchups.
I'm 100% on board with Moria, Rebecca and Lucci being too strong, but considering Moria just got reprinted and Lucci Leader has not seen a ban for yet, and probably won't, I don't expect either Moria or 4c Lucci to get banned. Like, at all. Rebecca I could see being banned and I think she's the main issue the more I play the game, not only because of what the card does by itself but due to how it combos with Moria.
The one thing that irritates me whenever this discussion comes up is that some people will say "Oh but it's fine if black is bad, black doesn't have to be a good color", like what kind of logic is that? You want Black to be weak while every other color also gets stronger? Pick one, either nerf black but keep the other colors in check or don't nerf black and powercreep the other colors. Some people seem to hate Black so much that at some point they're going to start asking for the entire color to be banned.
I think banning Rebecca and/or limiting Moria is a good enough solution. It's not perfect, but it's better than the current state of affairs.
What happens to doflamingo if you ban all these cards
The little brothers in the by Luffy deck should be bottom decked instead of trashed to stop Moria plays.
The deck would be horrible if gecko didn't make it dominant. Just leader lock gecko and rebecca , or limit it to 1
@ it stops all the by loops but keeps it so that the deck can still function
i wish most cards were leader locked
I was so excited to play smoker, but was instantly annoyed that I would have to still add Moria and Rebecca to be competitively viable. It's so boring, to see the same cards over and over again. And it's completely broken, let's be honest. What is wrong with Bandai?
@@HIMO37089 You can build without them but then yeah, your deck is becoming incredibly weak. That being said, staples cards exist for a purpose: to be good and to be massively played. Other colors also have absolute staples. Other card games too. You can't really get away from this except if you play for fun only and don't mind getting crushed at tournaments
Black Maria ain’t really a problem just pop her once kaido activates affect , I easily pop her same way every game then next turn they have no don then that’s game, with lucci they needa use most of there don to drop your cost down cause he only drops a 2c and 1 cost ain’t really a problem and Moria ain’t really a problem either I’ve never really had a problem play against him, Rebecca is only good with Moria , the biggest problems to me is blue sanji he drops another 9 cost , and green Zoro he basically attacks up to 3 times and finishes everytime , I use a basic non meta Belo Betty deck and my only problems are against green bonney , nami and doffy are easy for me , lucci and smoker are a lil hard but even and green Bonney and Yamato beat my ass lol
In all honesty the deckbuilding has gotten so stale for me in the game I'm losing interest. Right now every deck is just "Can it beat black?" and the answer is usually no. Even beyond that though, every meta deck is just running the same staples with a few variations.
I'm just tired of seeing the same cards in every game, and 90% of the time when a new set drops it only introduces a handful of new cards, but with no rotation and the same decks being good for over a year now they just pick up a few new toys and you see the same cards over and over.
Also I hate that Bandai is too afraid to print hard counters. If we don't get a way to interact with the graveyard in other colors, black will just keep being OP because they get 2 hands. The ONLY card we got is Brook (who is black btw) and they get to choose the card to put back in their deck. We NEED to be able to punish graveyard interactions in some meaningful way or it will always be the best strategy, every other TCG has learned this lesson at this point.
@@uriarte411 Just print dimensional shifter in OPTCG lmao
There's only 1 good black deck (by luffy its really not a 'black' deck) . Moria lucci and rebecca? You want people to never play black again i guess? Everyone who says this stuff is just someone playing horrible decks and getting crushed by lucci, thinking moria is the problem instead of their terrible deck. If moria lucci and rebecca where so good, then there'd be more black decks in the meta. ST 14 luffy uses moria, and its not even very good in that deck, doesn't even run lucci, and rebecca is very much meh there.
idk man i played smoker since the begining of the game. I like the black decks. You know black was really weak and kinda unplayable till gecko came out. Thats the only card in black which will give u some tempo. If you ban gecko and rebecca well GG you will kill all the black Decks. And in my opinion in the current meta and especially upcoming meta with op09 black will fall off.. There are a lot of hard matchups ... blue for example will have their whole board played out in round 4. Yellow will slowly trash your life. red rushes you extremely fast down. How do u imagine to keep up the tempo with black decks without Gecko?
Lucci just won a major jp tournament
Yeah if they ban those cards black is done. Meanwhile you can slap a board full of characters in one turn using hardly any don and that okay lol
Yeah some people complain about anything but then use another more broken deck
Lol yeah i dont think maria is broken either, but man. I've lamented time and time again how loaded full of value it is. it's all minor things too like for starters
For such a strong activate why in the world does she not rest herself XD , secondly and maybe more of a pet peeve. If her main drawback of Only being able to have 1 out, exists. WHY GIVE HER 2k counter man lmao. it's funny to me cus you NEVER feel punished by the fact you can only have 1. cus as soon as you play her you functionally just get to have 2k's in hand. I get the stipulation is because you dont want people to be able to +10 don!! but man. 2k???? really??? lmao
in my personal opinion on paper i do like gecko thematically and the archtype he creates, however in practice it doesn't end up CREATING a new archtype it is a catalyst for already strong archtypes. I've never been opposed to leader locking cards honestly. I personally do like that you can kind of pin each color to have "that card" that is their powerhouse that you have to play around. The issue i find most with moria is the lack of truly playing in game around it effectively. The best you can do is hope they dont have it. Where realistically i CAN play around pudding or grav blade, I can play around triggers, and so on with a not so detrimental strat. with moria what do you do? not kill their guys so they dont get extra on plays down the road? GL having the counter to survive i guess. also for me personally I enjoy him as a staple piece to be a threat - the problem for me personally arises when gecko grabs a rebecca and breaks the cost parody that he is suppose to impose. and then leads to higher values than what gecko is suppose to be grabbing. This in tandem with decks like lucci then spandime cost climbing can get wild.
I said this when i was getting into the game coming from magic - i kind of just wish there were more Low threat "answers" to some things. Realistcally outside interacting with opponents characters its incredibly hard to interact with someones gameplan. you kind of need to rely on you strat being stronger than theirs rather than having disruption. Maybe this is why when you see it in some places it feels so strong - like pudding. But i wish there was graveyard disruption in, and something that bugged me forever is how there isnt at least 1 card in each color that is just like a metiocre card - but can deal with a stage. I think stages generally best examplify the issue im talking about. I think you can count on 1 hand the number of cards that interact with opponent stages. as much as i can recall its just something in kalgara ya? not sure. so for some decks you can just make a turn 1 play, that will continually every turn generate value for you, that your opponent can't interact with unlike a character? and realistically the same can almost be said for graveyard based strategies. In magic there is a term, and funnily enough a deck archtype i was always fond of "Hatebears" a deck largely comprised of 2 drop 2/2 or lower mediocre cards, but each does something against some strategy. Effectively making the entire deck a toolbox of control based creatures. I wish we had a cycle of cards in OP with the similar idea, middling stat creatures, or events that can in some way hate out archtypes. I think they generally are healthy for games as it rewards the player and deckbuilder for having a grasp on their meta, which i feel matters more so in a BO1 format. and yanno sometimes you risk drawing that "ace in the hole" versus soemthing like a rush zoro deck, and low in behold it does NOTHING.
Please dont ban Rebecca. I need her for my rebecca deck. Deck is viable because of rebecca. Imagine that. Lol.
talks about sanji and other character being fair because you have to set it up, then says you play rob lucci and ko two characters. You have to set up every card, if you don't have enough cost removal, rob lucci is just a brick. The blue rebecca isn't black so it's not going to play from trash, blue does build trash. gecko is busted just like other cards.
Green 7c Luffy can play 14 don!! Worth of stuff
In Chopper decks you can play 17 don worth
I want reject back but shandorian leader only
To be honest i think too moria has to be baned. Lucci too, at least put him on one. But rebecca is important. Without her Rebecca is doomed
i get Yourpoint about banning cards that generating to much value or doing to much in an Ressource based card game but you say basically all cards expect 3 cards of black and one card from purple are fine and i mean that is not entirely true and if you ban all of these 3 cards or change them the decks would not be worse there would be dead in an Meta way you could play these decks but not in the meta you would kill lucci smoker there would be fun decks and i mean other colours have otherways of generating a lot of value yellow life trigger etc and so on so you want to change something i get it but it is still not the correct way to ban these cards
and colour idendity is a thing indeed but black always where removel and crap things from trash i mean it starts with rebecca and than there do gecko and black get most of the time only removal and filtering
What if the just limited the cards ?
While I agree that Moria and Rebecca should be type locked, at this point, most black decks can not function without them. So banning them is a lose/lose situation, and I doubt they will errata the cards at this point.
BY Ace wins...?
if they ban all yellow cards aswell then sure if not then u are on something
all 3 need a rewrite or ban.
I do think cards like black maria shouldve been leader locked but also they shouldnt leader lock everything because why the fuck is charlotte angel leader locked bigmom pirates dont want to play that the other yellow decks arent gonna be playing it why cant I farm life in BY ace bandai literally the only leader it could see useful play in
I support all BY Ace Love. S tire video lol
Law did nothing wrong.
Love how this guy downplays other colors who can cheap out guys…
I just know u got whooped by a lucci meta deck before making this.😂😂