Thanks Ron, a good breakdown of the different bullet types. Years ago a good friend of mine got me on to the Barnes TSX bullets. I am mainly hunting white-tailed deer, but I found from my 7mm-08 that the performance on whitetails seemed to vary a lot. At times the deer would immediately drop, but most often they would run afterwards a fair ways. I heard that the TSX bullets were better suited to larger framed game, and that they may not have been expanding fully on white-tails to sufficiently dump the energy. Is there any merit to this claim? The main reason I switched away from them however was due to accuracy. I have not tried them again in that rifle for a long time, but I did load up some of the 100 grain TTSXs for my .257 Wby Mag, and they were the most accurate bullet I tested from that rifle. Right now I’m shooting Nosler Accubonds for everything, which I like. They are accurate and dependable. But I’m always game to try something different.
There is some merit to that claim, Aubrey, just as there is merit to some claims that (choose your bullet) sometimes "fails" because it didn't open or opened too much or... Notice the video clip of the Barnes bullet opening after passing through that apple, which is a bit smaller and lighter than a whitetail. But it has high water content. This created hydraulic pressure that forces open the hollow nose. Does this always happen on game? No. Perhaps some dirt or mud on the hide got in the nose cavity first. Perhaps the lungs were too insubstantial to initiate expansion. Perhaps... who knows. I have experienced it all with Barnes TSX, but the vast majority of times every Barnes bullet from the original X to TSX to TTSX have expanded well and terminated the target animal quickly. Some instantly, some after the usual short run (until blood pressure drops.) In the Dark Ages (1995) I fired 12 Barnes X bullets at 12 African animals sized from tiny steenbuck and duiker to kudu and eland. Each one expired. I did fire two more bullets as finishers on two as they lay expiring at our feet, but they were essentially done from the first hits. Now when I show up in Africa with Barnes the PHs (guides) say things like "Excellent. It's like a soft point and solid on one bullet." Can I guarantee every Barnes bullet will perform perfectly? NO. But I can't promise perfect performance from any bullet. Just too many variables with game. A big part of being a hunter is knowing how to track, and Barnes bullets generally punch through to leave a better blood trail for that.
Aubrey, in my answer I forgot to address your "dump the energy" question. Energy dump contributes little or nothing. Bow hunters know this. So do poachers who take deer with 22 rimfires. Energy beyond that required to expand the bullet (for more surface area to rip and tear vital tissue) and penetrate to/through maximum tissue (for increased hemorrhaging) is superfluous. The kinetic energy carried by the bullet is absorbed and dissipated by the animal's tissues. You've probably seen this in slow motion videos of game being hit. You see the flexing, warping, etc. of the body. And often the struck animal runs off. Normal stuff. A bigger wallop doesn't matter. I've had many coyotes absorb a 7mm Rem. Mag., 300 Win. Mag. and run off 20 to 40 yards before expiring. I've had 80-pound warthogs take three 300-grain 45-70s slugs from inside 50 yards and continue running until blood pressure dropped. The whump just isn't what many of us imagine it should be.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Thank you Ron! Your input as a man with much hunting experience is greatly appreciated. I especially loved in your video how you kept all the various recovered bullets from different hunts, what a great idea. Yes I agree, as I lifelong bowhunter myself - my goal when I am hunting with my bow is to get that arrow to pass completely through the animal. It increases the tissue damage done as well as the chance of recovery should the shot be less than perfect. Over the years I have adjusted what I use in terms of arrows and broadheads in order to maximize the chance of getting a pass through, and doing so when conditions are less than ideal (like hitting bone or the animal stepping or turning). Now with this in mind, this gives me a different perspective on how I should expect bullets to perform, in that what I want to achieve in either scenario is quick kills and recovered game. I have noticed with the Accubond bullets as well, only once did the deer almost drop immediately. The rest of the time the deer still did travel some distance. So all in all, not much different from how the Barnes bullets performed when I used them years ago. Another thing you mentioned was about bullet length and the rifling twist needed to stabilize the longer bullets. This got me thinking if this is perhaps what was causing the accuracy issues I experienced previously with my 7mm-08. Currently I am loading the 150 grain AB long range as the regular 140 grainers were impossible to find in my area for a while. The 150s do ok but don't group as tight as the 140s did - but I don't know if the 140 grain TSXs are the same length or longer than the 150 grain ABLRs. Now I am even more interested in trying out some of the 120 grain TTSXs to see how they will shoot! I will have to do some more digging and experimenting. But this is a part of why I love hunting and shooting so much, there is always more I can learn. Thank you again.
@@AbBowhunter You are thinking this through nicely, Aubrey. I find it curious that many rifle hunters think that broadheads and bullets kill differently, meaning that broadheads slice to create hemorrhaging, but bullets supposedly deliver some kind of knockout punch. But in this age of video we've all seen plenty of animals absorb 3,000 to 4,000 foot-pounds of bullet energy applied to the vital organs and run for several seconds before succumbing. Then, as blood pressure drops, so does the game. Bullets kill by hemorrhaging, too unless they strike the central nervous system from the withers forward. But the same thing happens when a broadhead hits the CNS. The confusion for many is this still unproven "hydrostatic," more accurately "hydrodynamic," effect in which a lung-shot animal flops over dead on the spot. Some insist this isn't shock, but another theory is that energy transfer via the blood circulatory system breaks vessels in the brain causing, in effect, a stroke. But this can happen as easily, if not more easily, with application of a frangible "varmint" style bullet at high velocity than a larger, heavier "dangerous game" bullet like a 400-grain at 2,200 to 2,400 fps. Many have their theories about "shock" kills, but I'm still looking for documented, scientific explanations for that phenomenon. In the meantime, I'll continue to depend on bullets that maximize hemorrhaging of vital tissues -- and blood trailing. Thanks for your observations, Aubrey.
Shot a black bear with a cup and core bullet (165 grain 308). Core separated from jacket after taking out a rib and neither exited the animal. There was a few drops of blood near where I hit it and basically no blood trail to speak of. Luckily, I actually saw where the bear dropped so recovery was a breeze, but I believe the lack of an exit wound would have made recovery impossible had I made a more marginal hit. Just something to keep in mind when hunting tougher animals with conventional cup and core bullets.
Good point, Clinton. While bullets that break up and stay inside can be lethal, animals with lots of subcutaneous fat and/or hair might be best addressed with a controlled expansion bullet that maximizes penetration. A sizeable exit hole can provide good blood trailing.
EXCELLENT! Like you, I've also hunted for 50 years. I live and hunt interior Alaska. I've used all copper bullets for the past decade or so....I like the penetration and exit holes. Exit hole especially for bears which have long hair that wicks up blood. I hand load my .270 Win with 4350 or RL22 and 110-130 gr monoliths like Barnes TTSX and 180gr Barnes TTSX or Nozler E-Tip and 4831 with my .300 H & H Magnum. I use monoliths for tiny Sika Blacktails up to huge bull moose. Each of my rifle shoots a different monolith best, so for best accuracy I try a couple different monoliths in my hand loads.
I've tried lots of different bullets barnes ttsx is my favorite. Deep penetration leaves a good blood trail if needed and the most accurate hunting bullet in most of my hunting rifles. Some guys I hunt with spend thousands a year on hunting gear but buy cheap ammo. Somehow I end up trying to help them track there game with no blood trail up and down hills through swamps with nothing to go on cause there cheap bullet broke up and didn't exit. I just don't understand how people can spend thousands and cheap out on the only thing that kills what there hunting.
Very good point. I have observed the same thing in archery as well, everybody wants this years flagship bow or new spendy gear then stick a cheapo broadhead on a Walmart set of arrows and call it good.
British shooter here. Been shooting for 22 years. Just wanted to say that i love your channel and the way you explain things. I'm humbled to say that ive already learnt ALOT from your channel. We as shooters and hunters must always be learning.
Ron, this was a great video with useful information on picking the correct bullet. The section explaining the all copper bullets was very timely as some jurisdictions are now requiring hunters to use lead free ammo. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience. Take care and be well.
I fought against monolithic bullets like the Barnes TSX and TTSX for years. When I finally fell for them, I fell hard. I use the Barnes and animals that I have shot have all had massive terminal damage and complete pass throughs. For example: the Barnes 110g TTSX out of a Tikka 270 at 3410 FPS gives complete pass through but it looks like a bomb went off inside the Whitetail. I still use lead core bullets for predator hunting but prefer the all copper for big game.
Great knowledgeable video Ron, here in Eastern Canada i'm a big fan of the Nosler Partition out of my 30-06 for hunting Whitetails, Black Bear and Moose works wonders evrey time! 💥
@Colin Miller i definitely eat bear there's nothing like a bear roast cooked in my slow cooker delicious 😋 if ever you want my recipe i'd gladly pass it along!
Mike Gaudet yeah man let me know, I’m a new hunter so I’m not even sure what’s good for meat although where I’m at I can hunt bobcat, nutria, squirrel raccoon possum. People really eat all of that??
@Celestial bear burgers are as good, if not better than axis burgers 😋 you need to explore your options when it comes to what is not just good, but it's so darn good that it will make you cry, just like the menudo at speedy Gonzales place in El paso does me.
Got my first deer this year and i was able to recover the bullet. I used the cheap herters hunting ammo and the lead core separated from the jacket. Didnt seem to matter as it was a heart shot amd he dropped where he stood. (Probably helps that he was only 15 yards away)
I learned a LOT more about monolithic bullets in this one video than everything I've heard since they came out in the 80's. I have to say that while my Go To projectile for my -06 has been a Sierra 180 grain BT GameKing, I just might have to look into trying those newfangled bullets now for both excellent accuracy as well as on-target terminal performance. Thank you, Sir, for the video. Even if I didn't see it for about a year after you posted it. God Bless.
Great video! Thank you very much. What I could never understand, yes Barnes bullets are expensive, is; the CHEAPEST yet most IMPORTANT part of a hunt is the bullet you send down range. I mean we all spend lot’s of $$$ on places to hunt, clothing, boots, calls, and so many other things, why would you bargain hunt for ammunition? It doesn’t make any sense.
Does anyone use copper bullets in 9.3x63? It is low speed caliber and i wonder if bullet will expand properly. Now all bullets have polimer tip for better opening. Another important question: in europe where driven hunt are common often second shot is a must. Shooting of sticks is easier than free hand and lead and expanding bullet helps to kill animal when shot is not perfect. I think than on driven hunt there will be more wounden, not recovered, wasted animals. Best wishes to All in New Year 2022
Another good bonus of bonded and copper projectiles is if you have to make a follow up Shot. Now I don’t condone shooting animals up the rear but if you put a poorly placed shot the first time, sometimes the only follow up shot you’ll get if from behind. With a bonded projectile you know for sure the projectile will punch far enough to hit vitals. With a cup and core you can’t be sure, it could penetrate 12 inches and not make any vitals
also, copper coated bullets came around cuz a pure lead bullet cannot withstand velocities of modern powders....the lead melts going thru the barrel. 40 grn .22 lr is often lead round nose while 36 grn .22 lr is almost always copper jacket...its higher velocity will melt lead.
I just realized why I enjoy your videos and find the content interesting. You seem to leave opinion by the wayside for the most part and focus more on numbers and data. I like that. Too many you-tubers try to make videos like this but don't really approach it scientifically. They shoot some stuff and sometimes validate their argument with some crazy story, but there is no real content or data behind it. I like the way your brain works. Keep up the good work!
I have been educating my self on this subject recently, and have decided to just stay from bullets like ballistic tip type bullets as well as burger type bullets and I'm gonna stick with bonded soft points, copper and partition type bullets
I have 130gr Barnes TTSX's that I reload for my .270. I find those to be extremely accurate! The twist rate of the barrel and the length of the bullet must be a good match!🇺🇸✝🇺🇸
Garrett For Christ. Good day Sir, hope you are well. I want to start loading the TTSX bullets in a few different rifles and one happens to be a 270Win. Do you recall how many thousandths of jump to the lands you found your best accuracy in the 270Win.? I know all rifles are different as to what they prefer, but cutting down on time and money while experimenting is part of my goal. Thank you in advance for any information and or advice you can lend a fellow hunter/shooter.
@@stevepuyear2738 I can tell you what I load for it, but I'm not recommending any loads. I use the 130 grain Barnes TTSX bullet and load it with 53 grains of Hybrid 100v. Your load might be slightly different for your barrel's twist rate. Again, I'm not recommending any loads. Consult your loading manual. I hope this helps.🇺🇸✝🇺🇸
@@garrettforchrist2700 Garrett thank you for the data. My son's name is also Garrett. I'm always cautious and drop 10% off any recommended loads after consulting manuals. I was curious mostly as to the burn speed range of powder you were finding to work well in your particular setup. Thanks again and good luck out there this season. Be safe as well!
When I use a lead core bullet, I try to run it at moderate velocities. Example, look at the 30-30. At 100 yards with a cup and core lead bullet, you can expect a fantastic kill if placed just right. I have used these in 30-06. Results? DRT, IF, and I say IF, you are running them at moderate speeds. Lets break it down. in a 308, I will run a 165gr cup and core bullet at about 2650 to 2700 fps. Result? DRT deer / hogs. How about the 30-06? Same idea, but they run a bit faster, 2700-2800 fps with a 165gr. I have used a lot of 180gr bullets in the 30-06 lately. Why? These run 2600-2700 and really penetrate, break bone better, and results are DRT deer / hogs. Listen to Ron on the shotgun slugs. He knows what he is saying. I ALWAYS strive for close shots. Less to go wrong. Bullet choice for close shots? ALL. Why? Close deer are easier to kill, period. Hit the vitals. This particular video is so spot on I say, do it. Listen to Ron. He has killed a lot of animals. Also, practice shooting, so that you, as a hunter, are the best YOU can be. I am 60 and I practice a LOT. The Marine Corps taught me that.
I absolutely love the Remington Core Lokt line!! I use it at 150g for my 30-30, 30-06, 308, 7mm mag, 300 Savage and 140g for my 6.5CM!! in the last 20 years I’ve hunted whitetail deer every year and take 6-10 a year and I’ve NEVER had one that didn’t drop within 40-50 yards at the very furthest!!! Normally with a double lung heart shot they drop on the spot (in my experience!!!) but I’ve had them run!! As always thank you so much for your time and sharing your knowledge and experience!!! Just wanted to share my thoughts with you!!! Ive been watching a heck of a lot of your videos lately just stumbled on you on TH-cam and gotta say I really enjoy the content!!!
Ron, Enjoyed the video regarding the all copper bullets. I started using the Barnes Vor-TX line of ammo about 4 years ago and have not looked back. I now use them in all of my hunting rifles and purchased some recently for a 41 Remington Magnum Ruger Super Black pistol I intend to hunt with this year. They have worked flawlessly on Alabama whitetails even in my smaller caliber rifles like 300 AAC Blackout and 6.5 Grendel. By the way the 6.5 Grendel is a CZ Model 527 and it shot a cloverleaf 3 shot group right out of the box on the first three shots @ 100yds. It has become my favorite whitetail rifle. All bullets recovered were perfect mushrooms with near 100% weight retention as you mentioned.
My Ruger American .270 shoots the Federal Power-Shok all copper really well. I was very impressed with them compared to the lead core that I’ve always used.
I shot a deer yesterday with my 6.5 Creedmoor shooting handloaded Barnes 127 grain LRX bullets. The shot was 100 yards quartering away, and the bullet completely smashed through the ribs, obliterated the lungs, and exited the front of the neck. He ran about 20 yards before piling up. I was surprised at how little meat was bloodshot.
NONSENSE. It is not the twist rate of a barrel that stabilize the bullet; it is the rate of rotation (RPM) of the bullet as it leaves the barrel. This is a function of not just the twist rate but the velocity. A 1:9 inch twist might be needed to stabilize a particular bullet when shot at 2,400 fps, but that same bullet used in a bigger case with more powder might stabilize with a 1:12 twist simply because it is moving at 3,200 fps. The rate of spin is the same 192,000 rpm, hence the amount of gyroscopic stabilization force is identical. A prime example of this is that 300BLK rifle uses a very fast 1:7 twist to stabilize heavy subsonic bullets like the 220gr SMK. That is because it is moving at mere 1000 fps. That same bullet will stabilize in a 1:12 or 1:13 on a 300 Win Mag or 300 WSM because it'll be leaving the barrel at 2,700~2,900 fps.
Regarding the ballistic coefficient of lead vs non lead, sometimes the longer non lead bullet can have a higher B.C. for the same weight. As you reach the maximum bullet length that a barrel can properly stabilize, the greater density of lead will give a higher B.C. Excellent video, Ron. Thanks for the thorough, concise, and easy to understand information.
I would much rather get a pass-through shop period due to the fact that if you only one hole it could clog up and you have no blood trap. I have seen it happen several times this hunting season with 30-30s and 35s and the 44 Magnum .
Excellent presentation, as usual. As a handloader also addicted to lever action rifles, I'm now tempted to try loading monolithic bullets in .45-70 Government, .30-30, .44 Remington Magnum. Any experience with these, or know of others who have? I hunt in the Northwest Territories. Moose, bear, wolf, wolverine, caribou, etc., and defense from dangerous game. Take care.
I've taken a couple of black bears with monolithics in 30-30. Hornady 160-gr. Monoflex. I shot kills. Did not find 300-gr. Barnes TSX in 45-70 Marlin 1895 to be a quick killer on two big warthogs. One ran 100 yards after perfect shot through the chest and required finisher. 2nd took 3 shots to chest. Bullets appeared to have opened properly, but even if they hadn't, 45-70 fans insist they are so wide that the big hole and big punch of the 45-70 should kill right then and there. I don't see where the all copper was too blame. Expansion is expansion, copper or lead. I will experiment additionally.
One thing I would like to add. If anyone out there is considering using monolithic bullets on Medium thin skinned game, I suggest using a bullet with a plastic tip. For some reason, I have had to many "Pencil through" situations with non tipped Barnes TSX's. Save those bullets for the large game.
Excellent! There is far too much chat about relative calibres and their effects and not about what bullet construction is best for different types of game depending up the nature of their hides, their size and whatever. @Ron please do a review of 6.5 and 7mm hunting bullets and tell us what is likely best for roe deer, red deer, wild boar (proper ones, not feral pigs) etc Love this channel, no b.s. and Ron doesn't have any dogmatic views, just evidence based understanding and experience. This and Hicock are my favourite shooting channels for sure.
Thanks Richard. As for best bullets, that's complicated and variable depending on impact velocities and shot placement. As a general rule, any bullet designed to expand 1.5 to as much as 2X while retaining sufficient mass to maintain momentum increases penetration. Bullets that "explode" shortly after impact (varmint bullets) can kill quickly if that fragmentation happens within the heart/lungs. Massive hemorrhaging. Intact bullets are more likely to lace completely through and retain sufficient integrity and energy to break bones and hide on the far side, leaving a large exit wound for blood trailing. I've found Barnes TSX and TTSX quite effective for all species in conjunction with the right cartridge/velocity, but in general game struck with them and all other controlled expansion bullets that retain most mass and penetrate deeply or completely through stand, walk, or run for 3 to as many as 10 seconds on average before "running out of air," meaning blood pressure drops and they faint, then expire. You typically see this as a wild dash, then vering off course, wobbling, stumbling, falling, a bit of kicking, done.
This is what I call full coverage a topic for any experienced level. I really love when you assist the hunter and give him or her the tools to make the best hunting experience. I've been hunting for a really long time and I learned a few things myself. I've always been a fan of the Nosler Partition. Ron, you've really loved a life of hunting and journalism that most of us could easily envy. My 20-year-old daughter has decided to be an outdoor journalist. What basic advice can you give her? God bless and thank you!
thank you Jeff. Tell your daughter to be hard working, authentic and honest, and persistent. Don't try to fool anyone and don't sell out for a quick buck. Best of luck.
Thanks for the reply. She's a great young lady and she is all of those things, with a lot of integrity. Her mother and I got blessed. She's actually right here reading your advice and she says, "Thank you very much". May God bless the Spomers...
In all of my hunting I've found caliber is more important than bullet construction. JUST use a good quality bullet and a gun up to the task. AND don't forget shot placement!
The collection of recovered projectiles and notes about them is the best data I’ve ever seen related to bullet performance in flesh. Almost every other thing I’ve seen on this topic amount to “cool story bro”; just random opinions and no data. Personally, I’ve used cup/core bullets (berger) for years and never had a bad experience, but I’m also very choosy about the shots I take, so that may be more of an anecdote than a data point. Not to mention my sample size is much smaller. I’ve shot everything from deer to moose with them and it’s always worked out, but I really appreciated how you compared the various outcomes with different projectiles. Top notch stuff.
Bought a new 243 couple months ago... finally got to try loads few weeks ago... found the gmx and h335 was best with a clover leaf... done a lot of research and was keen on switching to all copper.. I have hunted over 25 years with lead/copper.. I figured try the gmx and see how they do on deer this fall
Great video. I had the absolute test in Namibia. I got the chance to cull 20 Oryx. 338 RUM with 210 Barnes TSXs and 210 Swift Sciroccos. All chest shots. Every Oryx hit with a 210 TSX took a few steps. Or ran 50 yards plus. The Scirocco knocked them off their arse. Only 1 ran. Rest my case.
All the informative discussion about monolithic bullets, ballistic coefficients and why the 6.5 Creedmore does what it does is a great opportunity to teach people who otherwise ignored or didn't know about these factors that make for a great rifle. Even though ancient cartridges like the 7X57 and 30-06 are great, what we shoot is getting a century-long update.
The 165 -169 grain bullet's of various construction loaded in the 308 cartridge can be load developed reasonably enough to allow swapping between them for jump shooting in tbe forest through too open spaces with longer distances and the ensuing lower velocity impact. Nosler Partition, Hornady ELD, or BT's, and even bear driving Swift can all perform within their limits using the 308 cartridge.
I designed a tubular bullet that allowed a high ballistic co-efficient . It had a good sectional density too which would "buck the wind". It also had vertical slits to allow it to mushroom upon impact. The fact that the weight of such a bullet is distributed at the periphery means that it is gyroscopically stable too. Strangely most cartridge manufacturers do not seem to realise that tubular bullets could give optimum external and good terminal ballistics making them flat shooting, wind bucking and good humane performers. Great video Ron!
@@fruitfarmfords8243 There are three ways to make a tubular bullet seal. If the bullet is contained within a parallel case ,like a 45/70 then a simple rear base wad would suffice to drive the bullet out of the barrel. The bottleneck cased ammunition is more complicated. A rear sabot onto a reduced diameter base allows the bullet to be driven conventionally. The split sabot will blow clear after the spinning bullet exits the muzzle. My own solution includes an internal ball bearing that drives the tubular bullet along and is blown clear on exiting the barrel. In the 1970's the army tried a 50 calibre Browning tubular bullet which did 5000 fps and carried supersonically for greater ranges . I think it was too light on impact for military purposes. A tubular design allows great sectional density so slow loss of velocity, momentum and energy. It can also be driven faster because it is lighter in weight,
Hello Ron, I always enjoy watching your videos. I know you are fond of copper bullets. Which I think is awesome. I know it's not your channel, but I would encourage you to watch Meat Eater Copper vs. Lead bullets. It is really worth watching. They compare the copper, bonded lead bullet, and a cup in core bullet in the same cartridge for a fair comparison. I think you would enjoy seeing that. It is informative also. Anyway I saw this and wanted you to check that out. It kinda takes the arguments out of things. Thanks Ron, always a pleasure to watch you.
Informative video. Something is going on with your sound track, it sounds like there's some Doppler Effect going on, like you're talking through a pipe.
As an old fashioned hunter, I'll just stick with the tried and true winchester 100 gr. 243. The last 3 200 lb. Axis I've taken haven't even taken a step when hit smack dab through the ribcage with exit holes the size of a quarter, and tremendous damage to the heart and lungs. All of these Axis were shot just short of 200 yds broadside.
The line about these bullets being basically thrown rocks brought to mind the first minute video about the Japanese I-400 class submarines. Just me folks, you're all going to enjoy it th-cam.com/video/6rhauQxM6F8/w-d-xo.html
Glad I tried 100gr ttsx in my 25-06. Have not had a mule deer get away since we switched to them. Sample of almost a dozen so far. Won't ever go back to lead.
Really enjoyed this video. I don't shoot many all copper bullets but now know that if I do hunt with them, shoot within ranges with highest velocity to maintain proper expansion. Thanks for the heads up on this.
Ok I hate copper Jackets, they peel, scrape off causing all sorts of malfunctions in my action(s). Would the copper bullets perform the same? or does it hold its own not being electroplated or welded/glued or pressed on? I have to admit the performances shown are very close to the reason I prefer the lead bullet. Being Solid I would think they would be less prone to the issues of jackets.
I come asking “why do we use lead for bullets” I leafy asking “what elements could we use inside ammunition that would reach negatively to iron inside blood for maximum efficiency”
Ca hunters were forced to use copper bullets we found using a smaller grain bullet helped in expansion..That’s the biggest problem with copper rounds..lead core is still superior way bigger wound channel more expansion in long shots..
The one deer I have shot with an all copper bullet was a disaster. Shot hit the back of the head, just below the right ear and exited through the area of the tear duct near the left eye. 80 yards with a 243, Hornady GMX. Deer had to be dispatched as it was screaming and kicking. For now I think I will stick to the bonded core and partition style bullets. I do feel the all copper/gilding bullets are getting better but need more research to be as good as some lead style bullets.
Good thing I don’t live in a state that is copper only. All copper and bonded bullets have poor accuracy in every gun I own vs cup and core. Extensive hand loading in dozens of rifles and not one has shown acceptable accuracy.
That was a great, detailed video explaining the various differences and trade-offs between conventional lead core bullets and the all copper, monolithic options. A couple of things not mentioned are the higher cost of the all copper bullets, and the potential for greater accuracy with lead-core bullets, where more of the weight is toward the rear of the projectile. Something I have long wished for is a bullet that is much like the Nosler Partition, where a solid copper bullet has had the shank filled with lead. This would make the projectile heavier in the rear, increase the sectional density for any given length of bullet, and otherwise provide all of the key advantages of both bullet types.
The discontinued Winchester XP3 bullet had lead filled shank, hollow copper nose just as you describe. Barnes had an MRX like that, but with tungsten in shank. Talk about heavy! Seems to me there were or are others, but I'm drawing a blank from the memory bank at the moment. Anyone? Didsn't Federal have a hollow nose copper bullet with a lead shank once?
@@jasonbroom7147 The XP3s were indeed a great bullet. But sales were low due to high prices. Most hunters go with the cheapest ammo they can find so they have sufficient funds left over for beer. (Only half kidding.)
Our household eats plenty of game, and I'm not particularly fond of feeding my family lead. I'll stick to lead-free bullets for hunting. Thanks for dispelling ignorance about these types of projectiles, Mr. Spomer
Left smarter than when I came in.
Every Ron Spomer video.
I left 16:25 older.
Same
Right
Always with RSO!
Learnt a huge lot. Thank you so much
Thanks Ron, a good breakdown of the different bullet types. Years ago a good friend of mine got me on to the Barnes TSX bullets. I am mainly hunting white-tailed deer, but I found from my 7mm-08 that the performance on whitetails seemed to vary a lot. At times the deer would immediately drop, but most often they would run afterwards a fair ways. I heard that the TSX bullets were better suited to larger framed game, and that they may not have been expanding fully on white-tails to sufficiently dump the energy. Is there any merit to this claim?
The main reason I switched away from them however was due to accuracy. I have not tried them again in that rifle for a long time, but I did load up some of the 100 grain TTSXs for my .257 Wby Mag, and they were the most accurate bullet I tested from that rifle. Right now I’m shooting Nosler Accubonds for everything, which I like. They are accurate and dependable. But I’m always game to try something different.
I’m a accubonds fan as well. Love the 110s in my 257
There is some merit to that claim, Aubrey, just as there is merit to some claims that (choose your bullet) sometimes "fails" because it didn't open or opened too much or... Notice the video clip of the Barnes bullet opening after passing through that apple, which is a bit smaller and lighter than a whitetail. But it has high water content. This created hydraulic pressure that forces open the hollow nose. Does this always happen on game? No. Perhaps some dirt or mud on the hide got in the nose cavity first. Perhaps the lungs were too insubstantial to initiate expansion. Perhaps... who knows. I have experienced it all with Barnes TSX, but the vast majority of times every Barnes bullet from the original X to TSX to TTSX have expanded well and terminated the target animal quickly. Some instantly, some after the usual short run (until blood pressure drops.) In the Dark Ages (1995) I fired 12 Barnes X bullets at 12 African animals sized from tiny steenbuck and duiker to kudu and eland. Each one expired. I did fire two more bullets as finishers on two as they lay expiring at our feet, but they were essentially done from the first hits. Now when I show up in Africa with Barnes the PHs (guides) say things like "Excellent. It's like a soft point and solid on one bullet." Can I guarantee every Barnes bullet will perform perfectly? NO. But I can't promise perfect performance from any bullet. Just too many variables with game. A big part of being a hunter is knowing how to track, and Barnes bullets generally punch through to leave a better blood trail for that.
Aubrey, in my answer I forgot to address your "dump the energy" question. Energy dump contributes little or nothing. Bow hunters know this. So do poachers who take deer with 22 rimfires. Energy beyond that required to expand the bullet (for more surface area to rip and tear vital tissue) and penetrate to/through maximum tissue (for increased hemorrhaging) is superfluous. The kinetic energy carried by the bullet is absorbed and dissipated by the animal's tissues. You've probably seen this in slow motion videos of game being hit. You see the flexing, warping, etc. of the body. And often the struck animal runs off. Normal stuff. A bigger wallop doesn't matter. I've had many coyotes absorb a 7mm Rem. Mag., 300 Win. Mag. and run off 20 to 40 yards before expiring. I've had 80-pound warthogs take three 300-grain 45-70s slugs from inside 50 yards and continue running until blood pressure dropped. The whump just isn't what many of us imagine it should be.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Thank you Ron! Your input as a man with much hunting experience is greatly appreciated. I especially loved in your video how you kept all the various recovered bullets from different hunts, what a great idea. Yes I agree, as I lifelong bowhunter myself - my goal when I am hunting with my bow is to get that arrow to pass completely through the animal. It increases the tissue damage done as well as the chance of recovery should the shot be less than perfect. Over the years I have adjusted what I use in terms of arrows and broadheads in order to maximize the chance of getting a pass through, and doing so when conditions are less than ideal (like hitting bone or the animal stepping or turning). Now with this in mind, this gives me a different perspective on how I should expect bullets to perform, in that what I want to achieve in either scenario is quick kills and recovered game.
I have noticed with the Accubond bullets as well, only once did the deer almost drop immediately. The rest of the time the deer still did travel some distance. So all in all, not much different from how the Barnes bullets performed when I used them years ago.
Another thing you mentioned was about bullet length and the rifling twist needed to stabilize the longer bullets. This got me thinking if this is perhaps what was causing the accuracy issues I experienced previously with my 7mm-08. Currently I am loading the 150 grain AB long range as the regular 140 grainers were impossible to find in my area for a while. The 150s do ok but don't group as tight as the 140s did - but I don't know if the 140 grain TSXs are the same length or longer than the 150 grain ABLRs. Now I am even more interested in trying out some of the 120 grain TTSXs to see how they will shoot! I will have to do some more digging and experimenting. But this is a part of why I love hunting and shooting so much, there is always more I can learn. Thank you again.
@@AbBowhunter You are thinking this through nicely, Aubrey. I find it curious that many rifle hunters think that broadheads and bullets kill differently, meaning that broadheads slice to create hemorrhaging, but bullets supposedly deliver some kind of knockout punch. But in this age of video we've all seen plenty of animals absorb 3,000 to 4,000 foot-pounds of bullet energy applied to the vital organs and run for several seconds before succumbing. Then, as blood pressure drops, so does the game. Bullets kill by hemorrhaging, too unless they strike the central nervous system from the withers forward. But the same thing happens when a broadhead hits the CNS. The confusion for many is this still unproven "hydrostatic," more accurately "hydrodynamic," effect in which a lung-shot animal flops over dead on the spot. Some insist this isn't shock, but another theory is that energy transfer via the blood circulatory system breaks vessels in the brain causing, in effect, a stroke. But this can happen as easily, if not more easily, with application of a frangible "varmint" style bullet at high velocity than a larger, heavier "dangerous game" bullet like a 400-grain at 2,200 to 2,400 fps. Many have their theories about "shock" kills, but I'm still looking for documented, scientific explanations for that phenomenon. In the meantime, I'll continue to depend on bullets that maximize hemorrhaging of vital tissues -- and blood trailing. Thanks for your observations, Aubrey.
Copper is about 4 times more expensive than lead. Wait for the price rise of 400%………
Barnes TSX is the best hunting bullet ever made. I’ll never go back to lead core bullets.
Shot a black bear with a cup and core bullet (165 grain 308). Core separated from jacket after taking out a rib and neither exited the animal. There was a few drops of blood near where I hit it and basically no blood trail to speak of. Luckily, I actually saw where the bear dropped so recovery was a breeze, but I believe the lack of an exit wound would have made recovery impossible had I made a more marginal hit. Just something to keep in mind when hunting tougher animals with conventional cup and core bullets.
Good point, Clinton. While bullets that break up and stay inside can be lethal, animals with lots of subcutaneous fat and/or hair might be best addressed with a controlled expansion bullet that maximizes penetration. A sizeable exit hole can provide good blood trailing.
"Always hunt honest and shoot straight." Words to live by.
I shot straight and missed, In turn, I got hit by a curved bullet. - That's life, you need to account for elevation and windage.
Pointing at bullets with another bullet. Flippin sweet
EXCELLENT! Like you, I've also hunted for 50 years. I live and hunt interior Alaska. I've used all copper bullets for the past decade or so....I like the penetration and exit holes. Exit hole especially for bears which have long hair that wicks up blood. I hand load my .270 Win with 4350 or RL22 and 110-130 gr monoliths like Barnes TTSX and 180gr Barnes TTSX or Nozler E-Tip and 4831 with my .300 H & H Magnum. I use monoliths for tiny Sika Blacktails up to huge bull moose. Each of my rifle shoots a different monolith best, so for best accuracy I try a couple different monoliths in my hand loads.
I find this encouraging for use over in the Northwest Territories! I think I'll try loading some up.
This guy really knows his trade not a fake he's got a lot of good information
I've tried lots of different bullets barnes ttsx is my favorite. Deep penetration leaves a good blood trail if needed and the most accurate hunting bullet in most of my hunting rifles. Some guys I hunt with spend thousands a year on hunting gear but buy cheap ammo. Somehow I end up trying to help them track there game with no blood trail up and down hills through swamps with nothing to go on cause there cheap bullet broke up and didn't exit. I just don't understand how people can spend thousands and cheap out on the only thing that kills what there hunting.
Very good point. I have observed the same thing in archery as well, everybody wants this years flagship bow or new spendy gear then stick a cheapo broadhead on a Walmart set of arrows and call it good.
British shooter here. Been shooting for 22 years. Just wanted to say that i love your channel and the way you explain things. I'm humbled to say that ive already learnt ALOT from your channel. We as shooters and hunters must always be learning.
Ron, this was a great video with useful information on picking the correct bullet. The section explaining the all copper bullets was very timely as some jurisdictions are now requiring hunters to use lead free ammo. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience.
Take care and be well.
Only commiefornia requires them
Great video Ron. Thanks for passing along your considerable knowledge.
I’m a new shooter, and this video has been one of the most helpful and informative ones I’ve come across. Thanks 🍻
Absolutely excellent information. I loved that you x-sectioned and then had samples of actual bullets through game. Very well done.
Federal fusion are a bonded bullet with a lead core. For my guns they are on average 65 to 70 percent of the cost of Barnes or Nosler.
Glorified rock, Love it. haha
I fought against monolithic bullets like the Barnes TSX and TTSX for years. When I finally fell for them, I fell hard. I use the Barnes and animals that I have shot have all had massive terminal damage and complete pass throughs. For example: the Barnes 110g TTSX out of a Tikka 270 at 3410 FPS gives complete pass through but it looks like a bomb went off inside the Whitetail. I still use lead core bullets for predator hunting but prefer the all copper for big game.
Great knowledgeable video Ron, here in Eastern Canada i'm a big fan of the Nosler Partition out of my 30-06 for hunting Whitetails, Black Bear and Moose works wonders evrey time! 💥
What do you do with the bear you hunt? It seems crazy that people would actually eat it so I thought I’d ask.
@Colin Miller i definitely eat bear there's nothing like a bear roast cooked in my slow cooker delicious 😋 if ever you want my recipe i'd gladly pass it along!
Mike Gaudet yeah man let me know, I’m a new hunter so I’m not even sure what’s good for meat although where I’m at I can hunt bobcat, nutria, squirrel raccoon possum. People really eat all of that??
@@Thecelestial1 people est everything but I would strongly advise you to avoid eating possum or racoon or be extremely careful to prepare it properly.
@Celestial bear burgers are as good, if not better than axis burgers 😋 you need to explore your options when it comes to what is not just good, but it's so darn good that it will make you cry, just like the menudo at speedy Gonzales place in El paso does me.
Got my first deer this year and i was able to recover the bullet. I used the cheap herters hunting ammo and the lead core separated from the jacket. Didnt seem to matter as it was a heart shot amd he dropped where he stood. (Probably helps that he was only 15 yards away)
Good for you.
I learned a LOT more about monolithic bullets in this one video than everything I've heard since they came out in the 80's.
I have to say that while my Go To projectile for my -06 has been a Sierra 180 grain BT GameKing, I just might have to look into trying those newfangled bullets now for both excellent accuracy as well as on-target terminal performance.
Thank you, Sir, for the video. Even if I didn't see it for about a year after you posted it.
God Bless.
Thank you H?
Thank you Ron 😇👌. Great informative video 👍. God 🙏 Bless ✝️.
Great video! Thank you very much. What I could never understand, yes Barnes bullets are expensive, is; the CHEAPEST yet most IMPORTANT part of a hunt is the bullet you send down range. I mean we all spend lot’s of $$$ on places to hunt, clothing, boots, calls, and so many other things, why would you bargain hunt for ammunition? It doesn’t make any sense.
Does anyone use copper bullets in 9.3x63? It is low speed caliber and i wonder if bullet will expand properly. Now all bullets have polimer tip for better opening. Another important question: in europe where driven hunt are common often second shot is a must. Shooting of sticks is easier than free hand and lead and expanding bullet helps to kill animal when shot is not perfect. I think than on driven hunt there will be more wounden, not recovered, wasted animals. Best wishes to All in New Year 2022
Another good bonus of bonded and copper projectiles is if you have to make a follow up Shot. Now I don’t condone shooting animals up the rear but if you put a poorly placed shot the first time, sometimes the only follow up shot you’ll get if from behind. With a bonded projectile you know for sure the projectile will punch far enough to hit vitals. With a cup and core you can’t be sure, it could penetrate 12 inches and not make any vitals
Great video. Old school knowledge with modern scientific facts and data. Really loved this video. Definitely gonna subscribe
Thanks Lorenzo. Welcome aboard.
Dear Ron in good calibre and bullet weight
Cap and core bullets kills faster
And don't be afraid of lead shrapnels
We use leads in aquariums🤣
I really like the way you present this information. Great video, I’ll be watching more from your channel. Thank you
also, copper coated bullets came around cuz a pure lead bullet cannot withstand velocities of modern powders....the lead melts going thru the barrel. 40 grn .22 lr is often lead round nose while 36 grn .22 lr is almost always copper jacket...its higher velocity will melt lead.
Great video Ron.
I hope you have a wonderful hunting season this year.
Take care
The scandalous curtain weekly sip because plow namely skip worth a annoying libra. squalid, pushy milkshake
Wow. Great video. This guy knows his stuff. I learned a lot.
Great vid as always, but in this one, you really needed a lavalier mic!
I just realized why I enjoy your videos and find the content interesting. You seem to leave opinion by the wayside for the most part and focus more on numbers and data. I like that. Too many you-tubers try to make videos like this but don't really approach it scientifically. They shoot some stuff and sometimes validate their argument with some crazy story, but there is no real content or data behind it. I like the way your brain works. Keep up the good work!
I have been educating my self on this subject recently, and have decided to just stay from bullets like ballistic tip type bullets as well as burger type bullets and I'm gonna stick with bonded soft points, copper and partition type bullets
danietkissenle all have their uses though
Great content but your audio “blows chunks”. Sounds like your in a Greyhound Bus Station bathroom! IMO! 🤡
Sounds good on my end scooter. Must be on your end
I have 130gr Barnes TTSX's that I reload for my .270. I find those to be extremely accurate! The twist rate of the barrel and the length of the bullet must be a good match!🇺🇸✝🇺🇸
Garrett For Christ. Good day Sir, hope you are well. I want to start loading the TTSX bullets in a few different rifles and one happens to be a 270Win. Do you recall how many thousandths of jump to the lands you found your best accuracy in the 270Win.? I know all rifles are different as to what they prefer, but cutting down on time and money while experimenting is part of my goal. Thank you in advance for any information and or advice you can lend a fellow hunter/shooter.
@@stevepuyear2738
I can tell you what I load for it, but I'm not recommending any loads. I use the 130 grain Barnes TTSX bullet and load it with 53 grains of Hybrid 100v. Your load might be slightly different for your barrel's twist rate. Again, I'm not recommending any loads. Consult your loading manual. I hope this helps.🇺🇸✝🇺🇸
@@garrettforchrist2700 Garrett thank you for the data. My son's name is also Garrett. I'm always cautious and drop 10% off any recommended loads after consulting manuals. I was curious mostly as to the burn speed range of powder you were finding to work well in your particular setup. Thanks again and good luck out there this season. Be safe as well!
Me and the boys going furry safari hunting
When I use a lead core bullet, I try to run it at moderate velocities. Example, look at the 30-30. At 100 yards with a cup and core lead bullet, you can expect a fantastic kill if placed just right. I have used these in 30-06. Results? DRT, IF, and I say IF, you are running them at moderate speeds.
Lets break it down. in a 308, I will run a 165gr cup and core bullet at about 2650 to 2700 fps. Result? DRT deer / hogs. How about the 30-06? Same idea, but they run a bit faster, 2700-2800 fps with a 165gr. I have used a lot of 180gr bullets in the 30-06 lately. Why? These run 2600-2700 and really penetrate, break bone better, and results are DRT deer / hogs.
Listen to Ron on the shotgun slugs. He knows what he is saying.
I ALWAYS strive for close shots. Less to go wrong. Bullet choice for close shots? ALL. Why? Close deer are easier to kill, period. Hit the vitals. This particular video is so spot on I say, do it. Listen to Ron. He has killed a lot of animals. Also, practice shooting, so that you, as a hunter, are the best YOU can be. I am 60 and I practice a LOT. The Marine Corps taught me that.
I absolutely love the Remington Core Lokt line!! I use it at 150g for my 30-30, 30-06, 308, 7mm mag, 300 Savage and 140g for my 6.5CM!! in the last 20 years I’ve hunted whitetail deer every year and take 6-10 a year and I’ve NEVER had one that didn’t drop within 40-50 yards at the very furthest!!! Normally with a double lung heart shot they drop on the spot (in my experience!!!) but I’ve had them run!! As always thank you so much for your time and sharing your knowledge and experience!!! Just wanted to share my thoughts with you!!! Ive been watching a heck of a lot of your videos lately just stumbled on you on TH-cam and gotta say I really enjoy the content!!!
Thank God for another 300 savage
Ron,
Enjoyed the video regarding the all copper bullets. I started using the Barnes Vor-TX line of ammo about 4 years ago and have not looked back. I now use them in all of my hunting rifles and purchased some recently for a 41 Remington Magnum Ruger Super Black pistol I intend to hunt with this year. They have worked flawlessly on Alabama whitetails even in my smaller caliber rifles like 300 AAC Blackout and 6.5 Grendel. By the way the 6.5 Grendel is a CZ Model 527 and it shot a cloverleaf 3 shot group right out of the box on the first three shots @ 100yds. It has become my favorite whitetail rifle. All bullets recovered were perfect mushrooms with near 100% weight retention as you mentioned.
Every hunter should watch this video. Lots of good information. I didnt understand bullet construction until i watched this. Well done!
Thanks Lyndon.
My Ruger American .270 shoots the Federal Power-Shok all copper really well. I was very impressed with them compared to the lead core that I’ve always used.
Thanks for all your advice. It has been so nice to learn from experts like yourself, Jack O'Conner and Carmichael.
Thank you, Sam. You are welcome.
Do they make Copper Core Bullets non hollow point
I'll stick with lead
I shot a deer yesterday with my 6.5 Creedmoor shooting handloaded Barnes 127 grain LRX bullets. The shot was 100 yards quartering away, and the bullet completely smashed through the ribs, obliterated the lungs, and exited the front of the neck. He ran about 20 yards before piling up. I was surprised at how little meat was bloodshot.
Kyle Reynolds lol wait til you realize thats from velocity. 45/70 with hot loads never causes bloodshot meat
my experiance ron, those barns bullits work like hammers and they stay together. just my experiance. they are all i use
Very informative Ron! Thank you!
NONSENSE. It is not the twist rate of a barrel that stabilize the bullet; it is the rate of rotation (RPM) of the bullet as it leaves the barrel. This is a function of not just the twist rate but the velocity. A 1:9 inch twist might be needed to stabilize a particular bullet when shot at 2,400 fps, but that same bullet used in a bigger case with more powder might stabilize with a 1:12 twist simply because it is moving at 3,200 fps. The rate of spin is the same 192,000 rpm, hence the amount of gyroscopic stabilization force is identical. A prime example of this is that 300BLK rifle uses a very fast 1:7 twist to stabilize heavy subsonic bullets like the 220gr SMK. That is because it is moving at mere 1000 fps. That same bullet will stabilize in a 1:12 or 1:13 on a 300 Win Mag or 300 WSM because it'll be leaving the barrel at 2,700~2,900 fps.
Thanks for the fine details on spin, Dwight.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Just pointing out something that a lot of people are mistaken about.
Regarding the ballistic coefficient of lead vs non lead, sometimes the longer non lead bullet can have a higher B.C. for the same weight. As you reach the maximum bullet length that a barrel can properly stabilize, the greater density of lead will give a higher B.C.
Excellent video, Ron. Thanks for the thorough, concise, and easy to understand information.
👍🏻 I either shoot Barnes or Accubond. ♥️ both!!!
Great overview of alot of factors, thank you!
I would much rather get a pass-through shop period due to the fact that if you only one hole it could clog up and you have no blood trap. I have seen it happen several times this hunting season with 30-30s and 35s and the 44 Magnum .
Excellent presentation, as usual. As a handloader also addicted to lever action rifles, I'm now tempted to try loading monolithic bullets in .45-70 Government, .30-30, .44 Remington Magnum. Any experience with these, or know of others who have? I hunt in the Northwest Territories. Moose, bear, wolf, wolverine, caribou, etc., and defense from dangerous game.
Take care.
I've taken a couple of black bears with monolithics in 30-30. Hornady 160-gr. Monoflex. I shot kills. Did not find 300-gr. Barnes TSX in 45-70 Marlin 1895 to be a quick killer on two big warthogs. One ran 100 yards after perfect shot through the chest and required finisher. 2nd took 3 shots to chest. Bullets appeared to have opened properly, but even if they hadn't, 45-70 fans insist they are so wide that the big hole and big punch of the 45-70 should kill right then and there. I don't see where the all copper was too blame. Expansion is expansion, copper or lead. I will experiment additionally.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors thanks. I'll have to try them out. Happy hunting.
I really enjoy your videos and channel. Very Informative!
Don’t forget the Flex tip for tube mag guns, lever actions, etc. They keep the plastic tip advantages and keep the primers from going off in the tube.
Very well thought out and knowledgeable video.
Be blessed sir
I've seen a couple bullets stop on the far side of an elk hides. In my opinion that is perfect. Full penetration but no energy wasted
One thing I would like to add. If anyone out there is considering using monolithic bullets on Medium thin skinned game, I suggest using a bullet with a plastic tip. For some reason, I have had to many "Pencil through" situations with non tipped Barnes TSX's. Save those bullets for the large game.
Excellent! There is far too much chat about relative calibres and their effects and not about what bullet construction is best for different types of game depending up the nature of their hides, their size and whatever.
@Ron please do a review of 6.5 and 7mm hunting bullets and tell us what is likely best for roe deer, red deer, wild boar (proper ones, not feral pigs) etc
Love this channel, no b.s. and Ron doesn't have any dogmatic views, just evidence based understanding and experience.
This and Hicock are my favourite shooting channels for sure.
Thanks Richard. As for best bullets, that's complicated and variable depending on impact velocities and shot placement. As a general rule, any bullet designed to expand 1.5 to as much as 2X while retaining sufficient mass to maintain momentum increases penetration. Bullets that "explode" shortly after impact (varmint bullets) can kill quickly if that fragmentation happens within the heart/lungs. Massive hemorrhaging. Intact bullets are more likely to lace completely through and retain sufficient integrity and energy to break bones and hide on the far side, leaving a large exit wound for blood trailing. I've found Barnes TSX and TTSX quite effective for all species in conjunction with the right cartridge/velocity, but in general game struck with them and all other controlled expansion bullets that retain most mass and penetrate deeply or completely through stand, walk, or run for 3 to as many as 10 seconds on average before "running out of air," meaning blood pressure drops and they faint, then expire. You typically see this as a wild dash, then vering off course, wobbling, stumbling, falling, a bit of kicking, done.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors thanks Ron!
Happy hunting
Great info, thanks!
This is what I call full coverage a topic for any experienced level. I really love when you assist the hunter and give him or her the tools to make the best hunting experience. I've been hunting for a really long time and I learned a few things myself. I've always been a fan of the Nosler Partition. Ron, you've really loved a life of hunting and journalism that most of us could easily envy. My 20-year-old daughter has decided to be an outdoor journalist. What basic advice can you give her? God bless and thank you!
thank you Jeff. Tell your daughter to be hard working, authentic and honest, and persistent. Don't try to fool anyone and don't sell out for a quick buck. Best of luck.
Thanks for the reply. She's a great young lady and she is all of those things, with a lot of integrity. Her mother and I got blessed. She's actually right here reading your advice and she says, "Thank you very much". May God bless the Spomers...
Excellent overview, Ron. Thank you :-)
In all of my hunting I've found caliber is more important than bullet construction. JUST use a good quality bullet and a gun up to the task. AND don't forget shot placement!
The collection of recovered projectiles and notes about them is the best data I’ve ever seen related to bullet performance in flesh. Almost every other thing I’ve seen on this topic amount to “cool story bro”; just random opinions and no data.
Personally, I’ve used cup/core bullets (berger) for years and never had a bad experience, but I’m also very choosy about the shots I take, so that may be more of an anecdote than a data point. Not to mention my sample size is much smaller. I’ve shot everything from deer to moose with them and it’s always worked out, but I really appreciated how you compared the various outcomes with different projectiles. Top notch stuff.
Thank you Ron. Appreciate the experience & perspective.
Bought a new 243 couple months ago... finally got to try loads few weeks ago... found the gmx and h335 was best with a clover leaf... done a lot of research and was keen on switching to all copper.. I have hunted over 25 years with lead/copper.. I figured try the gmx and see how they do on deer this fall
Great video.
I had the absolute test in Namibia.
I got the chance to cull 20 Oryx.
338 RUM with 210 Barnes TSXs and 210 Swift Sciroccos.
All chest shots.
Every Oryx hit with a 210 TSX took a few steps. Or ran 50 yards plus.
The Scirocco knocked them off their arse. Only 1 ran.
Rest my case.
All the informative discussion about monolithic bullets, ballistic coefficients and why the 6.5 Creedmore does what it does is a great opportunity to teach people who otherwise ignored or didn't know about these factors that make for a great rifle. Even though ancient cartridges like the 7X57 and 30-06 are great, what we shoot is getting a century-long update.
The 165 -169 grain bullet's of various construction loaded in the 308 cartridge can be load developed reasonably enough to allow swapping between them for jump shooting in tbe forest through too open spaces with longer distances and the ensuing lower velocity impact. Nosler Partition, Hornady ELD, or BT's, and even bear driving Swift can all perform within their limits using the 308 cartridge.
I designed a tubular bullet that allowed a high ballistic co-efficient . It had a good sectional density too which would "buck the wind". It also had vertical slits to allow it to mushroom upon impact. The fact that the weight of such a bullet is distributed at the periphery means that it is gyroscopically stable too. Strangely most cartridge manufacturers do not seem to realise that tubular bullets could give optimum external and good terminal ballistics making them flat shooting, wind bucking and good humane performers. Great video Ron!
Ill bite, how does it seal in the barrel? Or is it not a complete tube??
@@fruitfarmfords8243 There are three ways to make a tubular bullet seal. If the bullet is contained within a parallel case ,like a 45/70 then a simple rear base wad would suffice to drive the bullet out of the barrel. The bottleneck cased ammunition is more complicated. A rear sabot onto a reduced diameter base allows the bullet to be driven conventionally. The split sabot will blow clear after the spinning bullet exits the muzzle. My own solution includes an internal ball bearing that drives the tubular bullet along and is blown clear on exiting the barrel. In the 1970's the army tried a 50 calibre Browning tubular bullet which did 5000 fps and carried supersonically for greater ranges . I think it was too light on impact for military purposes. A tubular design allows great sectional density so slow loss of velocity, momentum and energy. It can also be driven faster because it is lighter in weight,
Hello Ron,
I always enjoy watching your videos.
I know you are fond of copper bullets. Which I think is awesome. I know it's not your channel, but I would encourage you to watch Meat Eater Copper vs. Lead bullets. It is really worth watching. They compare the copper, bonded lead bullet, and a cup in core bullet in the same cartridge for a fair comparison. I think you would enjoy seeing that. It is informative also. Anyway I saw this and wanted you to check that out. It kinda takes the arguments out of things.
Thanks Ron, always a pleasure to watch you.
The best practical, nuts~N~bolts video on bullets I've had the pleasure to watch.
Thank you
Cartridge Case - Primer - Propellant - Projectile/bullet - Round
Informative video. Something is going on with your sound track, it sounds like there's some Doppler Effect going on, like you're talking through a pipe.
As an old fashioned hunter, I'll just stick with the tried and true winchester 100 gr. 243. The last 3 200 lb. Axis I've taken haven't even taken a step when hit smack dab through the ribcage with exit holes the size of a quarter, and tremendous damage to the heart and lungs. All of these Axis were shot just short of 200 yds broadside.
The line about these bullets being basically thrown rocks brought to mind the first minute video about the Japanese I-400 class submarines.
Just me folks, you're all going to enjoy it
th-cam.com/video/6rhauQxM6F8/w-d-xo.html
Glad I tried 100gr ttsx in my 25-06. Have not had a mule deer get away since we switched to them. Sample of almost a dozen so far. Won't ever go back to lead.
I learned something new today... good video
Really enjoyed this video. I don't shoot many all copper bullets but now know that if I do hunt with them, shoot within ranges with highest velocity to maintain proper expansion. Thanks for the heads up on this.
Ok I hate copper Jackets, they peel, scrape off causing all sorts of malfunctions in my action(s). Would the copper bullets perform the same? or does it hold its own not being electroplated or welded/glued or pressed on? I have to admit the performances shown are very close to the reason I prefer the lead bullet. Being Solid I would think they would be less prone to the issues of jackets.
I come asking “why do we use lead for bullets” I leafy asking “what elements could we use inside ammunition that would reach negatively to iron inside blood for maximum efficiency”
Distance,disrance,distance! Got to match your distane with your caliber and weight, and animal your hunting! Theres no one size fits all.
nice work
Ca hunters were forced to use copper bullets we found using a smaller grain bullet helped in expansion..That’s the biggest problem with copper rounds..lead core is still superior way bigger wound channel more expansion in long shots..
The one deer I have shot with an all copper bullet was a disaster. Shot hit the back of the head, just below the right ear and exited through the area of the tear duct near the left eye. 80 yards with a 243, Hornady GMX. Deer had to be dispatched as it was screaming and kicking. For now I think I will stick to the bonded core and partition style bullets. I do feel the all copper/gilding bullets are getting better but need more research to be as good as some lead style bullets.
Good thing I don’t live in a state that is copper only. All copper and bonded bullets have poor accuracy in every gun I own vs cup and core. Extensive hand loading in dozens of rifles and not one has shown acceptable accuracy.
That was a great, detailed video explaining the various differences and trade-offs between conventional lead core bullets and the all copper, monolithic options. A couple of things not mentioned are the higher cost of the all copper bullets, and the potential for greater accuracy with lead-core bullets, where more of the weight is toward the rear of the projectile.
Something I have long wished for is a bullet that is much like the Nosler Partition, where a solid copper bullet has had the shank filled with lead. This would make the projectile heavier in the rear, increase the sectional density for any given length of bullet, and otherwise provide all of the key advantages of both bullet types.
The discontinued Winchester XP3 bullet had lead filled shank, hollow copper nose just as you describe. Barnes had an MRX like that, but with tungsten in shank. Talk about heavy! Seems to me there were or are others, but I'm drawing a blank from the memory bank at the moment. Anyone? Didsn't Federal have a hollow nose copper bullet with a lead shank once?
@@RonSpomerOutdoors -- It seems to me like these would be ideal bullets. Were they not as good as I would think, or are they just too expensive?
@@jasonbroom7147 The XP3s were indeed a great bullet. But sales were low due to high prices. Most hunters go with the cheapest ammo they can find so they have sufficient funds left over for beer. (Only half kidding.)
Love the glorified rock that’s funny
I prefer balsa core bonded projectiles. They travel at light speed and completely vaporize the animal
That was the "executive summary " of bullet design. A great video with a wealth of information clear and concise.
Thank you Warren.
Outstanding!
Like with most things the right tools for the job makes all the difference.
Nice video!
Keep'em coming!
Our household eats plenty of game, and I'm not particularly fond of feeding my family lead. I'll stick to lead-free bullets for hunting. Thanks for dispelling ignorance about these types of projectiles, Mr. Spomer
I just learned a lot, thanks for the video!
This was helpful to me. I’ve hunted in the past. But always with others’ gear. Now I can make a more informed choice regarding what bullet to choose.
No other place to go to get in full perspective of field experience. Thank you, Ron. Brilliant!
Not to long for now, the military will use them to,if watch this video 🤗 they are going to electric tanks and plains as well 👍👍👍
I recommended this Video to a Forensic CSI person in the UK . Very interesting and important information. Thank You for Your research .