Hybrid Supercapacitor Car Battery Part 7 1 Month Update
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ย. 2017
- Sorry it took so long to make this update, it's more like a 6 week update.
there has been two minor modifications to the unit itself. Firstly, the relay power monitor has been disconnected and removed. There was a loose connection to the power shunt that ended up making the unit read power consumption incorrectly, causing the unit to disconnect the battery via the relay when in fact the unit was operating correctly. I really didn't feel like tracking down the issue with the unit, as it was only meant to be temporary anyways. With it removed, that removes a 50+ma parasitic load from the system.
Secondly, I replaced the decoupling resistor between the battery and the supercap array from 0.5Ω to 0.1Ω. This allowed enough current to flow in both directions to keep the battery charged, and still staying within the 15A maximum charging current the battery specifies. With the 0.5Ω in place, there wasn't enough charging current to top off the battery during my usual 20 minute commutes, and within a week the battery was fully discharged. This problem has been fixed with the 0.1Ω resistor and now the battery is fully topped off within 5-10 minutes of engine running.
Also, we tested the 5-cell 600F supercapacitor array by Amperics to see how well they have performed for the past 6 weeks since there is not a balancing circuit on them. There was only around 0.03v difference between the cells with the engine running and the array charged up to 14.4vdc. These cells must be perfectly balanced for their internal resistance.
My next plan is to purchase 2 more of the 600F 5 cell arrays from Amperics when they become available again, and use them to replace the lower capacity and bulkier 400F arrays that I custom built. This should allow me to fully shrink the unit, and possibly move it back to the engine bay.
We also saw today that at 23'F, the Hybrid Supercapacitor Car Battery could care less and operated just as well in cold weather without any loss in cranking power.
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You remind me of me! I built one for my Chevy Blazer and since it had a 406 Stroked Motor, I stepped it up.
I like your effort and would like to offer my 2 cents because I've already been there. I realize that there are many approaches so here's mine.
First, I built mine in a Plastic MTM 50 Caliber Ammo Storage Box " Ebay $12". It's the same size as the original Battery. There's exactly enough space for everything inside too.
I stepped up my LiFePO4 Battery size to a 35Ah w/500cca. It's just got more Reserve.
I used 6 Maxwell 2.7v@ 3000 Farad, which is Plenty of Cranking Power!!! I used a Remote Balancing Circuit. It's available for $16 on Ebay.
I also made Copper Side Post Terminals on the box. It looks like a Stock Battery with a recessed handle. It's very Simple and sits right in the Original Tray.
I realize you have to consider Cost. I wanted a system that was Heavy Duty. When you Strap those Caps together into a 6 Pack, it's the Nuclear Option...
May I add another note, You don't need a Resistor in the Circuit. The Alternator has a built in voltage regulator which is going to be sensing the Capacitors voltage and ramps down . The battery just goes along for the ride. Stick a meter on it and watch what happens.
Good Job to You
Very interesting! Love this content! Just subscribed. I do find it challenging to stay right with u tho. Hafta keep goin, "wait, what'd he say?". I'll find out quickly if it's the cold making u sound slightly like a slurring drunk or not, when start this playlist from video number 1.
Good job, keep updating, cheers.
Great information. I love watching what you've done with this project. At this point, do you see a need for the active balancing Mosfets that you added? I'm considering doing something similar with 6 Maxwell 3000F 2.5V capacitors.
So after all this time what do you think about Amperics supercaps? Their spec are a bit low compared to branded 600F ones but still they are cheap compared. Are They still Worth to this days? Are they still going Strong? Or have you other suggestions?
Hello, first at all, thank you for your excellent work and share it with everyone. I'm doing a project similar inspired in your work. I have a new car that has the S & S system. I have read that people, even if they have the system disconnected, has a lot of problems with the battery and dies in 2 years. This car (tsi 1.4 ACT 150cv) has an intelligent alternator (microhybrid system) which means that it works with 3 voltage levels, 12.4 V (no load) 13.5 V (medium load) and 14.65 V (full load) ). regulation is automatic and depends on the engine load, to improve fuel efficiency.
I have in mind to install the capacitor bank (16V and 83F) in parallel with the lead acid battery. I will put a fuse (200 A) before connecting to the battery to avoid any potential disaster with a possible short circuit in the capacitor system. My question is, as you can see, I'm going to have a lot of time charging at 14.65 V and suddenly the alternator voltage drops to 12.4 V. In this situation, the capacitors discharge the current to the battery quickly. If I have a jump voltage of 2 volts between 14.65 V and 12.4 V putting a series resistor of 0.5 ohm, I will limit the current to no more than 5 amps, right?
What do you think about this system? Will the capacitors improve the life of the battery with the S & S system? Any problem with the intelligent altenator system that can see?
Great job,I like it.Just for safety keep a good size fire extinguisher. I had a fire on something that was UL certified.You never know.
Thought this was a fun experiment, and thanks for doing these tests/ uploading. Here's my $.02, when you have a VCR or TV that goes out (or even your blower motor in your home hvac) what is usually the cause? A bloated/overheated capacitor on the power supply - get some cooling in that enclosure if your going to want those caps to last the 4-6 years of a regular la battery.
Also, and this seems to be the case with a lot of cap-used-as-battery vids on here: If you run into engine issues roadside you only have 2-3 tries to crank the car over, no? I doubt a 10Ah battery would take that full load after that.
That is a really great idea. Thanks for sharing the video!
Have you done a review on your multimeter?
great job, thanks for posting
Your explanation is super I love it
Thank you for the update. Great work. I think >700A is a bit unrealistic. I was expecting a draw in the range of 100-200A. My 3.5L Lexus engine draws about 230A for 3 seconds. If you get an update on the amperage draw later, please update us. Cheers
Maybe the overload was caused by the initial inrush peak current. I also expect somewhere around 200 A of actual current. But the first couple of milliseconds it might indeed be 600 A or more for just a very short period.
Frankhe78 you are probably right. See the ElecttoBOOM video where he uses a scope during crank. Couple miliseconds of inrush current exceeding 700A can be expected here too. th-cam.com/video/tKki89sq0XY/w-d-xo.html
Very nice video and project. I'm pretty sure using LiFePo batteries and charging them in near freezing conditions will destroy them. Also, one of the capacitors has it's protective wrapping broken next to what looks like a main pole, I know you probably figured it out about 3 years ago, but I'm looking at making all types of batteries and power projects. I saw something, I said something, lol, I hope you have a great day.
Question: May I change LiFePo4 battery to AGM/Gel? I couldn't find LiFePo4 12V battery in Poland... Greetings!
Can you give a parts list ? And where you picked up everything at ? That Would be awesome dude! Thanks in Advance:)
Howdy
Beautifully built!
Well done.
I need a unit of this expandibillity for my camper.
Currently 4 x 100watt solar panels driving a big pile of batteries.
Needs to run furnice, 4-6 hours per night (intermittently). For the worst case senario of coldest night in Jan.
Burrrrrrr! Now I'm cold.
I know you're busy so ThanQ for an just educated guess.
That would be grand.
Do you know how much wh or kwh the furnace uses per night?
No I dont. I will check it out. I had 4 x 6volt (series/parallel). = 2 x 12v.
It would have them down to 12.3v in the am.
@@thenavig8r956 Ah of the 6 volt cells? Deep cycle? Are you using an inverter to turn the DC to AC?
Buy a "kill A watt electricity usage monitor" set up to be at 0kwh plug in your load when you start to use and check in the morning how many kwh's was used over the night(if the load is AC).
@@thenavig8r956 A DC inline watt meter that shows wh or kwh can be used if the furnace is 12vdc.
Or is there US/Canada based company that sells ready hybrid replacement packs for regular cars/suv's?
Nice project. So i wonder just how long could you listen to the radio? IE... Have you tested the usable reserve capacity at like 20A draw?
Do you have heat blanket for your LiFePo4?
What is the weight saving comparing to the equivalent led acid?
This would be handy for cars with Star/Stop systems. I know someone who drives a Crosstrek Hybrid (original one) and that thing needs a new battery every year or two.
When supercapacitors are well matched and stored at a constant pack voltage, they tend to self balance, because higher voltage cells will leak current at a higher rate than the lower voltage cells. Balancing circuits are more crucial when a pack is subject to constant charge-discharge.
What balancing board do you need for 3× 18650 and 3xsupercaps to replace a lead battery for motorcycle?thanks
A prayer type as its not enough for component to handle
Curious.. what’s your one year update?
Hello and congratulations for the channel. I saw that on the positive of the supercaps you put a resistor you could tell me its characteristics, you could publish a diagram of all the components as soon as a relay appears to be connected to the output of the lifepo4 battery. Thank you very much I hope my English is understandable ...
think that's really cool. I would try something like that but I sit in my car at lunch and listen to the radio most of the time with out running it. something like this would be neet to try in a Toyota prius to replace the take off batteries. it would give it more of a boost at take off and recharge faster.
+Richard Best yes, the one disadvantage of this setup is you can't listen to music for hours in your car, as there is not a large reserve available like in a regular car battery.
You could always add more electricity storage batteries to this system
Thanks
Holy shit that started fast
Very cool setup! What vehicle is that? I'm surprised to see such a high starting current. My high compression V8 only draws around 350ish.
Sorry but i've had an almost dead (dropped to 10v under a load tester) battery start a 1.6L corolla @ 0degC like it was +20degC outside. So on that part i don't think you're stress testing enough.
I'm interested in this project for a Prius. Though i'd change the storage battery and the amount of supercaps. I'm thinking of using a 10ah 4s3p pack of 18650s, the idea is weight savings(
Just to check - I've got 120Ah of LiFePO4 in my van and some caps on order. There's a 6S balancing board which puts the voltage up to 16V. Would the board work with 5? Should I just use 5 and skip the board completely? Fixing 1/10 ohm resister between the caps and the batteries should recharge okay?
Basic questions, I know, but I'm learning as I go.
What voltage are your supercaps?
@@madelectronengineering 2.7V, 350F, 3 pin. Probably the wrong ones for the job but I figured I could use them on the bike if they didn't crank the van.
You could use solar panels to put a startup charge in them, then a DC charger in the car to keep them charged. Self contained battery pack for your electric car.
Clamp meter needs to be swapped direction to see current going out.. dc amp clamps are directional. Current supply should be front to back. So you have it on correctly to measure charge Current but not any drain.
it would be nice to make diagram for how to make resistor between the battery and Supercapacitor
how would it work on an old model v-8 engine(vehicle)
So here's the big question. Can you mass produce it for less than the cost of an SLA car battery? The way I figure it, the super caps and electronics should last the life of the vehicle. Hell if it didn't get too hot or cold, LiPO's could probably last too. You'd never have to buy a battery again. I'd love that.
If you take lifecycle into consideration the expense of the hybrid battery is initially more, but over time it is actually about the same or slightly cheaper then replacing lead acid batteries every few years.
Taking into account that during the life of a vehicle you will have to replace the lead acid battery at least twice. If the kit is twice the cost of a normal battery it is already worth it. Not mentioning the time saved by having to jumpstart the car and being late for your appointment. Sounds like a solid investment to me.
You forgot to take your pills dude.
Meds dude. Now.
Move along limey. We won. Get over it.
Why is it that you still need to add a battery on to charge the capacitor? Does the alternator isn't enough to charge the capacitor while it's on or running?
Two questions for those who have done it already:
1. Will it work similar with the existing SLA car battery?
2. What does the balancing board do when an individual SC fails, i.e. short or V
Similar to LFP battery, SLA battery keeps 12.7V instead of 13.5V. In this case, the capacitor pack loses 12% power storage. The good news is , each cell would be 2.54 V. According Eaton data sheet, 2.3-2.5V is the most stable stage for energy storage. The leak current is only 0.5mA. According to Electroboom, the least voltage for a 66.7F 12V pack is 9.8V to start a 4 cylinder car. That means it still can start the engine after one week even without SLA optimally. With a 10AH SLA, it may last months as the parasitic current(20-60mA) is far larger than 0.5mA. The second one is, The capacitors are in serial, If there is a board, one cap failure doesn't affect other caps cause the voltage would be cut off when it reaches 2.7V (or the limits), If there is not protecting board, one cap failure causes the whole voltage drop, then the whole serial cap charges to 13.5V. The result is only 4 caps( depend on your cap number) bears the load, each cap would be 3.38V. So all 5 caps crack and leak. The worse, I didn't see anyone tested overcharge a supercapacitor. Comparing a boom of lithium battery with boom of a supercapacitor : ).
Would this work in a situation where a constant or almost constant consumption is needed. I need to run my radio shack and at the moment I have a load of 10 amps peeking to 40amps when transmitting?
A Supercapacitor will definitely iron out those current peaks.
Christopher Warren The addition of a capacitor pack in parallel with your radio power supply is being done for high power. Xmtrs and is an excellent solution.
At the moment you will need a 40 A power supply to handle those peaks. When using the supercapacitor bank as buffer you would be able to size down your power supply to around the average current consumption. Lets assume that would be 20 A. Or you could still be using your 40 A supply knowing that it would be more stable and live longer because the peaks it sees are only half of what they were before. Only one thing you need to take into account when switching on the power supply. The voltage in the supercapacitor bank is very low, almost zero. It has to rise to the normal operating voltage of lets say 12 Volt or so. During this charge period the supercapacitor bank will draw a large current from the power supply. In the first couple of seconds it will basically look like a dead short. The simpel solution is to use a chunky series resistor to limit this initial current. The charge will probably take somewhere between 10 and 30 second before you reach the desired operational voltage. Depending on the size of the supercapacitor bank and the current the power supply can deliver. Make sure the resistor is able to handle the power it will be seeing.
Limiting the capacitor inrush is a good point, however if you use too high a resistor value your caps wont recharge fully before you are ready to reply and key up again. Maybe you could try a .1 ohm 25W resistor for say a 240mf 12v capacitor bank, but a better solution may be to just use a higher capacity bank that wont fully discharge during the power spike and let the power supply recharge it at its full capacity almost instantly.
Frankhe78 thank you for that explanation, it is much clearer now. I am using a 80amphr battery and a 230 wp solar panel. How many super capacitor banks will I require of say 2.7v 500f?
hi there.hope someone could give me an advice here.well i'm planning to built 6 of 2.7v 500F hook it on a balancing board and just wondering do i still need a 12v batt for these setup?by da way my car is a 3.0 lit 12v isuzu dmax truck..any of your sincere opinion is my great thank and appreciated..
When you charge lifepo4 batteries at below freezing temperatures, they will be ruined. Wouldn't it be better to use lead acid battery?
how do you keep the capacitors from draining the battery after sitting for a few days?
i have a setup just like this but i use a 12v solar panel to keep the supercaps charged. i have the 600f caps and use a solar charge controller connected to the capasitors .its been working for 4 years no problem and the solar panel just sits in the back window .
Capacitors do not draw anything after they reach the voltage charge threshold.
@@rollmeister They self-discharge though, and will drain the battery after some time if left connected.
Great content. I currently have Dyna-batt manufacturers ID 5575B its a 12V, dry cell battery, 16amps hrs, and it is 4 years old. I bought it for the weight savings and at $159, it was the best option. Now, the CCA on it is around 280 and I live in NE and on days where its under 50 degrees, the car struggles to start. I want to maintain the weight savings and I like the idea of a supercapacitor. What kind and how many would I need to help boost this battery? A schematic, or links to what I can buy would be awesome.
If you connect two of a 16.2V 500F modules connected in parallel that will handle min. 200A continuous. But at $350 ea. it's $700 for adequate caoacitors.
@Judge Dredd I bought a UCB450-30, 15 Volts 90 Farads Capacitor 900 Peak Amp Current for my car, and it works great. The car doesn't hesitate to start in cold temperatures.
i have 6x500F supercapacitors in series on board and i want to build a Lead acid replacement for my 4cylinders 750cc motorcycle. How should i connect 6 x18650 batteries i have, to charge the supercapacitors? Thanks!
you cant not change real battery with those shit. unless you drive where is always warm.
Awesome👍👍👍👍👍
awesome we got the lithium battery in today but we will be running 12 supercapacitors 2.85 3400 farad each so the bank will be capable of 17.1 amps @ 1100 farad battery for life!
i'm scared you used those string bean wires :O to pull 600ampsI would use no less then 3/0 wire for 600 amps running 10 feet
Hi I’m taking apart an conn organ. Should I save any of the electronics from it.
How about rain and getting wet issues with the mother board?
hi sir where can purchase this product?
I am a little confused. You are using a clamp on amp meter which according to Faradays law should not work using DC current. You should only get a reading the instant you start your engine which represents a fast alternating current then nothing.Only an AC current will give a continuous amp reading.
electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/341156/how-does-a-dc-clamp-meter-measure-current
How do you read DC amps with an AC amp clamp meter?
It does AC and DC clamp amps.
how is it working ? does anyone make this commercially ? it is now 2021
Can we run electric cycle
Did anybody have good information on how to remove generic bar battery, make empty box out of battery and fill it with capacitors and small battery?
just build wooden box.
Do you want to go to Alaska but would you consider taking it to an ice rink parking it inside overnight to achieve temperature you need Because if you can prove that cold isn’t a factor which I don’t think it will be because you’re using super capacitors your friend would be cold temperatures but I’d be curious to see what it does at -40-50 if those tests are good you can come up towards Canada And if you’re already I’m not sure where you are I haven’t researched this is my first time here my idea was just to see if you could get it in the -40 to -20 find someone who’s got a skating rink usually they have a Zamboni
Which means they’ll be a garage where you can park the car in the ice without being on the rink Find some with cold storage it’s an experiment you should be able to find someone willing to help the cause inquiring minds need to know
is this still working?
With the help of capacitor we can recharge by radio AM
Rather then using a coupling resistor, using a coupling inductor will be better.
The last 2 videos in this playlist have nothing to do with the Hybrid battery. Infact, they aren't even videos you made. Not sure if you knew this or not.
is this big clives lost younger brother?
why stick with a battery and not just build a super capacitor bank that can totally replace the battery completely?
did u try to count the cost?
@@pokwa906 did you?
@@raven4k998 yes.
in my country, this build cost 5 times more than normal battery car price.
roughly a car battery can last 2 years.
@@pokwa906 and what would it cost built out of 3400 farad capacitors and how long would it last in use in a car?
Even 3400F supercaps will drain in a few days. Supercaps have power density, but not energy density. The opposite us true of batteries. Have the two meet in the middle and you gave a robust system.
12vdc / .1ohm = 120Amps that 25watt resistor should fry..
Super capacitor can’t be over charge they stop taking charge when full at the rating volt that is if the voltage is higher then the bank voltage it will get hot but
What are the degree in C?
@Anders Jackson it is -5 degrees C, www.google.com/search?q=23+f+in+c&oq=23+f+in+c
c = (f-32)*5/9
f=c*9/5+32
I wish we could all agree on a system of units.
We have. The metric system.
That is not that cold. :-)
But water freezes at least, so it is sub zero in celsius.
We may agree but if I started talking in meters and degrees Celsius, where I live, everyone I know would ask what they are in inches/feet/yards and degrees Fahrenheit. We've been as slow to adapt as our unit of mass... the slug.
I'd just use 6- 3000F 2.7-3.0 volt super caps in series and forget about everything else. You are pushing a very complicated system and are going to be dealing with many failure points. I don't see any need for batteries, especially Lithium-Ion batteries.
I have Dodge Grand Caravan minivan with a roof rack and can mount a 160-watt solar panel with a diode on the roof to keep the caps charged if the car is not in use for an extended period of time. In full sunlight, it would provide 13.3 Amps at 12 volts, enough to power a radio.
Crank generators built into the axles of your car, every minute of forward motion would produce 3 minutes of available power.
0.1 ohm resistor.... Is that even necessary to have in a circuit lol
Very necessary! It limits the current being pulled from the battery to around 15 amps while actually starting the car. It also decoupled the battery from high amperage loads and allows the supercaps to do thier job and supply the bulk of the energy for starting your car.
@@madelectronengineering Have you considered putting an inductor in place of the resistor? It may serve the same purpose of isolating the battery during cranking
23 f and gasoline is A JOKE! Try -6F and diesel.
Great series. Have you had any issues charging the lithium battery when it is sub freezing outside? Thanks for sharing.