Handles or Grips on Swords? Misplaced Sword Pedantry
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ค. 2024
- Handles or Grips on Swords? What is the 'correct' name? Is there a correct name? This video is basically about misplaced sword-geek pedantry and semantics.
IPoistSwords Channel: / @ipostswords
KnightSquire (HEMA Douche): / @knightsquire - กีฬา
The mix of English, French and Italian used at the same time make me feel like I'm in starbucks.
If you really have a problem about people using the word handle to describe that part of the sword, you need to get a grip.
Be careful, or you might make them unsheath their rapier wit
meltedplasticarmyguy I doubt it'll do anything, most of them are small of wit.
"I hope this video helps END arguments on the internet."
Not gonna happen, Matt.
GrimBrotherIV we must end them rightly
Nah mate, you’re wrong!
I love how every English person seems to have the same accent for pedants.
Hi, Dara.
It's an approximation of a Monty Python character type if I'm not mistaken, but similar pedantic voices have been used throughout British comedic history.
Also, the association to the guy from Only Fools and Horses.
It's the train-spotter voice that Michael Palin puts on.
No no no no, it is not called a blade. Actual experts call it the pokey-bit.
Perunavallankumous and they tell ya to stick em with the pointy end lol
What about the choppy bit?
Nay sir, tis the stabberer.
As in. "Ofcourse I know how to use a sword. The pointy end goes into the other guy!"?
No no no, it is the Cutter, which is connected to the Protector, and the Handle, and that separate part is the Case.
When you finally grasp a perfectly balanced sword, you can almost hear the Hallelujah Chorus playing in the background. That's why they call it a handel.
i see what you did there... ba dum ting
Well done sir. Well done.
I salute your knowledge of classical music, while i slightly frown upon your rendering of the name "Händel". ^^
martialme84 except that Handel wasn’t a German - his fame and career were all in England.
Händel would be an example of hypercorrection - so eager to be right that it ends up being wrong.
"except that Händel wasn’t a German" Wait, what? ^^
Next time save yourself the embarrassment and google for 5 seconds beforehand, will ya? ;)
That is, i believe, pretty much what wikipedia was made for. Have a good one.
martialme84 next time, don’t rely on Wikipedia- or actually, do. They show his name without the umlaut, because that’s how it’s always written and pronounced in English, and the man had every opportunity to correct it given his long career in England.
The joke doesn’t even work with the umlaut, as it would be pronounced Hendel. If you’re going to insist on including the umlaut, at least understand what it means.
If the man himself didn’t use it, who are you to insist that he spell it differently?
Fantastic video, beautifully explained :) I should do this too but in Italian :3
what was that connection to male and female genitalia in regards to sword parts?
Metatron XD
i realize I'm quite randomly asking but does anyone know a good place to watch new tv shows online ?
@Jaxson Harrison Try flixzone. You can find it on google :)
@Jaxson Harrison i use FlixZone. Just search on google for it =)
Thank you, Matt! As a writer, this video has helped me be more sure about the terminology I'm using to describe the swords in my book - especially since sabres are the style being used.
Cool, good to hear it's useful as well.
That's a very nice slice-o-lever with what looks to be a very beautifully crafted holdy-bit, judging by the way you're handling it I'm guessing it was never service sharpened, or has it just become dulled?
Sometimes I clickity-clack on my letter pad interface to communicate on the program I use within my magic desk box to watch moving pictures.
Still effective communication if nothing else.
actually, that sounds rather nice. :-)
ericv00
Your way of saying words is fun to read.
I miss knight squire. Someone go resurrect him
What happened?
No idea, but he hasnt posted in forever
He's posted recently on his latest video. He's alive no worries
All i need is the blood of a virgin or 10 goats and a sword of some type
IIRC, the price is 1000 gold pieces and I'll need a flawless diamond for a material component.
As a language nerd, I can't give this video enough thumbs up.
Hehehe I saw the screenshot of the "handle vs grip controversy" on facebook, it's fun to watch the end here ;)
"hema twat.....? hema geek....?" 😂😂 made me lol ✌😊
I'm glad you've finally started flashing up memes and references to emphasise your points Matt. Good editing.
Great video, Matt. Did you know that there's actually a name for that concept you mentioned at the end? Where a person assumes they know a lot about a topic because they don't know enough to realize how LITTLE they actually know? It's called the Dunning-Kruger Effect. It's been studied. It's amazing how many problems in the world are caused by that little issue.
Sorry if this was a bit of a random comment, I just thought it was interesting.
Fascinating! I notice this even in my work life... I'm going to go and read more about this.
Yeah! That's basically the same reaction I had when I first learned about it. Happy to be of service. As always, thanks for the great videos!
the voice he did for the scabbard/sheath thing fucking made my day. amazing.
That voice you did to make fun of the pedants was really funny Matt. Well done
For me, I think of any hard shelled "sheathe" as a scabbard, and soft (like leather, any slappy kind) as a sheathe, but that is just so I can differentiate them in my thinking.
Sounds fair enough to me
For me, the difference is size. A sheathe is for a knife, whereas a scabbard is for a sword. Though TECHNICALLY, you CAN place a sword into a sheathe, and place a knife into a scabbard.
Whatever works for you, works for you and is all good (except pineapple on pizza)
Martin Ross exactly the same here (also about the pineapple on the Pizza)
thank you for taking the time to explain to us none blade types the different parts of the blade. And all the different names for same parts.
I bloody hate that Kevin Donnely.
Almost as much as you love Brian Danner.
I don't agree with everything he says, but he does make some good points.
Say what you will abut Kevin Donnely, but I hear he looks spectacular in jeans shorts
You are alive?
Such a douche-bag cannot agree more. Glad to see you here Ninja Eugene by the way and please don't hurt anyone - except for children under your rules sets-
I'm loving your editing in this vid Matt. It's just enough, and with great timing
This is seriously my second favourite video you've ever made.
Matt Triggered.
Not going to lie I really enjoyed this.
Taking about the naming of fuller, here is one interesting finding I had about fuller in Chinese - the simple answer is I don't know how was fuller been called in ancient Chinese. In Chinese historical martial community we are calling it 樋. But this is a Japanese word. To be honest we are using a lot of terminologies from Japanese because they have a more systematic way of describing things in martial art. I posted the question on Chinese martial art discussion board, did some research, and yet failed to find any historical document describing this stupid groove. It was not like such thing did not exist in china, there were a lot of actual swords, paintings, sculptures of swords with the grooves. But somehow people just didn't bother to mention it in writing. I found suspicious word like 脊线 (spine line). But the spine of sword was often used to describe the reverse side or central line of the blade. So I'm not quit sure could it also be used to describe the fuller.
If someone know better than me, please comment and give me answer with proof (only primary source please).
This video was very funny, and your editing skills have improved a lot! Congratulations.
The little thumbnail video on the outro is a great addition.
I'm excited for Metatron's pedantic response. On vidme... dammit, TH-cam.
Very elegant way to put someone in their place! Coodos to you, Matt. A real English gentleman.
"Grip" can refer to the covering of a handle. "Handle" can mean an entire lever on the human side if the fulcrum. The two words are thus somewhat interchangeable for clarity depending on context.
Great video! This is one that's been needed for a long time. And, yes, I've been guilty of being a snob in the past but you've really opened my eyes on this. Thanks Matt......
i always forget the word "grip" for some reason, and call that the handle - and then i call the guard the hilt for some reason.
Honestly, I'm surprised it took until now for you to have to make this video.
That being said, informative as always.
OMGs, THANK YOU! Just all of that is so very needed these days since HEMA and things like Forged in Fire have become mainstream.
HEMA, and practically anything with historical origins, benefits immeasurably from anthropological thinking. Great video as always.
In polish we call scabbard a "pochwa" which means... yes, you guessed it, also vagina.
...
^^
ZekeSinner same in Czech
Well, it IS a box you stick your "blade" in.
Same in german, it´s a "Scheide"
Same in Norwegian, "Skjede".... not too far removed from German
See I was always under the impression that there were three parts to a sword. The pokey bit, the holdy bit and the cutty bit.
In some respects you are correct, but not all swords poke or cut
Some swords even only have a pokey, or only a cutty bit.
Right around 3 minutes, this became my new favorite thing.
It's a frickin handle.
The pointy bit, the cutting bit, the grip and the metal condom - I am not an expert as you can see, but it works for all my experiences with swords.
wonderful teaching skills. Thank you Matt.
I think you should do an entire sword review, in your pedantic voice. Possibly for April fools day.
83 GT oh my god that would be amazing
A while ago in one of your videos you mentioned an exercise you did with some HEMA students of yours where you gave them 6 seconds to 'kill' each other with a knife. Could you video some similar fights and upload them? I think it would be really interesting to watch
That look on Matt's face when he says "penetrating", cracks me up.
Matt, your blood groove has some really lovely decoration. ;)
I exclusively use UNICEF recognized sword lingo
Only UNICEF?
ASPCA standards is where it's at.
SAE and ANSI standards supersede all your medieval nonsense.
Excellent discussion on the purpose of language, Matt!
Good God, Matt has discovered how to edit. God save us all.
This was hilarious!!! Great vid!!!
In old Swedish fencing manuals, the grip/handle is referred to as "kavel" which in modern language means a rolling pin. I don't know if it refers to it being an elongated, kind of rounded shape, or because rolling pins have handles attached to the longer "business end" like a sword. We can also call it "hjalt" meaning hilt, or "fäste" which means something like "fastening", probably referring to the fact that the blade is "fastened" at the hilt.
When last I awoke, the missus' handle was demanding I made haste toward the water closet!
Thanks for sharing.
Some other interesting things about language and weapons:
In modern Swedish, the word "värja" is used (in weapon terms) exclusively about the sword type "rapier". However, it is in other contexts used to mean "defend" or "fend off", which is more or less the original meaning.
I recently learned that the word "värja" was used in a historic military context about any hand weapon, including swords, spears and even firearms. They were occasionally distinguished by whether they were one- or two-handed weapons.
The Swedish word for "rifle" is "gevär" which is a direct loan of the German word "gewehr", which in my understanding has the same history in that it originally referred to any defensive hand-carried weapon.
You would essentially use the same word for a rapier and a rifle. I'm sure that wasn't in any way confusing.
Is KnightSquire dead? I miss his videos
I want him back
Miss him too - and Ninja Eugene -, the sketch Matt linked is so great. Hey HEMA guys - I hate them - I can beat a child "under my rule set".
He's not dead, he's working on a video actually.
John Tse
Nice to read this, looking forward to watch it, thank you for the piece of info
Still alive, and I'll be back to regular uploads really soon. Thanks guys
Where the hell is KnightSquire? Bring him back, please
I know right. I love his vids.
He's confirmed in this comment section that he's coming back! In replies to a comment by Redman A.
I have been waiting for you to poke something with sword point while you are holding a sword on your shoulder and finally it happened :D
A grip is a dedicated area where you are supposed to put your hand on a handle. Not all handles have one(spear or a plain axe), but rather can gee gripped/held whereever, some handles are only a grip (saber, sword). An axe or mace with a marked/modelled grip do have a dedicated grip, but could be held on an alternative grip anywhere on their long handle. And some handles have two or more grips (twohanded sword). In conclusion, a handle can have multiple grips, but a grip can only ever be part of one handle.
I don't know if it's a recent change or not but the audio quality of your voice has improved!
The explanation I got when I was little about sheaths and scabbard was the frogs and toads explanation. All scabbards are sheaths but not all sheaths are scabbards. The explanation was that a sheath is a scabbard if there is a hard bit inside of it or around it besides leather. Like my old dirk is in a sheath but my little sword, maybe five inches longer so not much, has a scabbard, and they called it a scabbard because it had a wooden core wrapped in leather.
Is that explanation wrong? Probably, but it did help me figure out some semblance of what it meant. By that explanation, scabbard always had a hard core, but really only larger sheaths needed a wood core or a metal casing, so basically it was always sword sheaths.
I loved your scabbard voice. Do that at a million times more.
I love the “you are wrong” part, that was hilarious
Excellent Context !
You sir, are a treasure to humanity
I'll take that. Thanks.
Fun fact: in Polish ricasso is called podkrzyże which translates as 'under the cross'. Communication achieved.
Well done Matt! Spank those internet trolls and verbal police. If you haven't already, you should do a more complete guide on the anatomy of various common and exotic melee weapons! That would be very interesting. Thanks!
Isn't "fuller" just short for "fuller groove"? I read that the tool used to make the groove is called a fuller.
Yes you are correct, the tool used to produce the groove is a fuller so technically a blade can be referred to as fullered when one or more fullers are used in its production. Blacksmiths use fullers for a range of tasks, not just fullering blades.
Dear Matt Easton! You said your favorite movie is Lawrence of Arabia. i watched it and i loved it!
could you please make a video talking about more historical movies you like?
My honest respect for you and your channel!
Hmmm in fencing sports(germany) we used to say "Glocke(Bell)" for the basket...
By the way... i llike your videos. Very informativ...
Moin
Oli
So... once again it all depends on the context?
Preach it, brother!
Calling a condom a sheath!! Seriously Matt you are on a roll this year
"You can call a condom a sheath!"
I busted out laughing lol
The linguistics nerd in me loved that.
As a boring pedant, I wholeheartedly agree with this message.
My fanon pedantry states the following:
1. The handle is the whole part that your hand holds onto, the grip is the front bit of the handle where your individuals fingers grasp.
2. A scabbard is a subtype of sheath that specifically protects from weather via enclosing the blade with metal or wood or both.
3. Yeah.
4. The 'blood' groove is only present in blades specifically made for one to hurt themselves on and have some of their own blood go down a specific path, most commonly found in fiction, prominent for instance in the plot of the Animu Blood +. Groove is groovy.
5. Ricasso is dumb, specifically because I personally do not like the word. Shoulder is better.
6. Prefer hood to backstrap. Backstrap could be confused for a strap on the back of the wielder. Butt is also a fine replacement for pommel.
Hey Matt, love your vids. I believe I own a sword similar to the middle sword off your right shoulder. Mine has Otto & Sohn Solingen etched etched under one the rain guards. Can you tell me anything about it? It has been in my family for a very long time. Thank you.
Great video Matt. If you're interested I'd love to talk to you about a project I'm in the early stages of fopr basically "hot rodding" an old cavalry training saber that appears to be made out of good steel just never sharpened or really hardened well into basically a functional (within the limits of the base object) PDW.
I call it "hot rodding" because I'm taking an old rusted out junker that seems to have a good backbone and rehabilitating it, hopefully beyond its original design specs. I'd appreciate any feedback if you're interested in hearing my details and seeing a couple photos.
the real question is, can u call a condon a scabbard? for that will very much amuse me...this double entendre makes this informative on many different ways.
You can tell Easton's voice and vocal intonations are different when doing this sort of angry or incredulous lecturing rather than his usual informational videos.
Have to say, in sport fencing, people say handle quite a bit. Depends a bit on shape. For straight handles (like sabre and french handles) a lot of people seem to say handles. For pistols and orthopaedic a lot of people say “Grip”. Doesn’t mean anything really, its just what sounds better coming out of our mouth.
Wow scabbards are like the least sexual part of a sword and he still managed to turn it into an innuendo
I have an idea for a great episode.
You could go around on the street and challenging ppl to sword duels. It would be so great seeing a master destroying ppl completely
One of the most common things that bugs me about any conversation about historical arms and armor is how up in arms people get about semantics, not realizing that the definitions are almost always very fluid and indistinct. Case in point: longsword vs hand and half sword.
I am looking to give a detailed description of three different arming swords in a piece of medieval/fantasy fiction. Can anybody point me in the direction of an article, scholarly work (preferably on the internet) or a specific book that details (preferably with illustrations) all the variations that can be found in swords? The variations in the blade cross sections, the variations in the blade tip, cross guard shaping and the different pommel types. I'm looking the for great detail that could used to flow like talking in Heraldry. Any help would be appreciated.
Actually, blood grove is used in a couple languages, but I think rather than a function, it is a description of reality, when stabbed into someone, the fuller is the part most likely to leak blood, as it applies the least pressure to surrounding flesh.
In hungarian, a Sheath or scabbard is "hüvely" or "kard hüvely" wich is a word used for a part of female genitalias. But we also use this word, "hüvely" for a part of a cigarette for example ( the paper part where the tobacco is, like a tobacco sheath lol )
interesting.
one thing i want to add:
that thing with sheaths and female genitalia does interestingly not only work in italian/latin (maybe all romance languages ??), but in several european languages, that have no ethymological connection to each other.
its the same for example in german, and also in polish.
please METATRON, correct me if I'm wrong. Now I'm italian and yes, one of the translations of "scabbard" in italian is actually vagina, which is written like in english, but the "i" is pronounced like an "e". The reason for this name is that the shape of the hole through which the blade goes into the scabbard reminds a bit the one of the vagina. Pay attention though, this is pheraps the less used term among common people. There are 2 other translations: "guaina", which is also not so much known, but does not make people think about female genitals, and "fodero", the most used one. If you have an italian friend and you're talking about swords and stuff like that use "fodero" when referring to a scabbard, cause if he's not a little bit into the topic he might in most cases think that you're using a woman to store your sword.
Scabbard: a choppy-metal-thing-carrying-thing!
Sword: a metal-choppy-and/or-stabby-thing!
And, interestingly, the term 'blade' can be used to refer to the entire, bloody thing! Holdy-grippy-bit, and sticky-out-hand-protecty-part, and all!
My problem with the Swedish sword typology is that the Fuller is in official sources called the "Blodränna" or Blood-runner (like a liquid will run down something). Which is not correct for what it does or what it's meant for.
also matt, on the moro kris swords you like so much what is the reason for the one bit above the handle(😂 yeahhh I said handle seeing as you said its all good id probs have called it the grip but you right man, it is indeed a handle 😊) that sticks out more than the other? is it purely aesthetic or is actually ergonomic in its nature? (i.e performs a specific function and is purposely desigend as such rather than just for the look of the form)
*designed....was gonna edit but thought it may be pedantic...(this is the topic of the vid)...😂 although I suppose doing it this way is perhaps even more so....😂
Matt, I gave a cheap, battle ready *cringe* sword (Cold Steel Shamshir) to a friend to complete his look for a costume for a Ren Fair (he's a Barbary Pirate) and well to put it lightly the blade was not taken care of. Rust covered damn near the entire length so he had some work done on it. The rust is gone and has a mirrored polish, save for some pitting it looks great. Now the the problem is due to the restoration the sword is now loose in the scabbard and will slide out. What would you recommend to make it fit snugger?
Maybe sticking a couple of leather strips to the inside of the scabbard throat will solve the problem.
Lesson of the video as I took it.
Dont have a go at someone on a technicality, but of their meaning
Avatar Mufasa shouldnt that be true of all life?
Indeed yes. just replace sword with item or topic X. And youve got a whole different subject
Sheath is most certainly a suitable term. I'm still looking for the literary masterpiece in which the protagonist unscabbards his sword to defeat his enemies.
Here in Czech Republic we use term "pochva" for scabbard and yes it's a term for female genitals (slavic language btw.).
I would also call the shell a "Knuckle Bow", especially if it was a smaller guard.
My teacher called the edge of a blade the blade, and the point of the blade the point. but the entire blade together he called the "Steel of the Sword" and then separated the entire blade into the strong, weak and center. conversations were so weird with him. Okay, now apply pressure to the center of the steel of my sword and you cross the flat of your steel across the spine of my steel. Now Pivot sliding your leading foot just so to gain the advantage of leverage, making sure to keep your steel between my blade and your fleshy bits....
Semi-serious question: Was the fuller named that by people who used swords or was it named that by the smiths who made the swords? I ask because there are several kinds of fullering tools used by smiths to make fullers in metal. Mine, for instance, is used to shrink tubing in order to make sockets for candleholders. The fuller is created in the circumference of the tube rather than the length of it, you see. I could use the same tool to make a fuller in a blade. And that leads me to an observation. A blade's fuller could also be called a flute.
What happened to KnightSquire? It has been more than 4 months since he posted the last video.
Ikr!
So a scabbard is not specifically a rigid sword-sheath?
It looks like there are large crosswise dents in the saber scabbard. If so how do you get them out?
You don't - it's 150 years old and they are part of its history. If someone wants a perfect scabbard it would be better to get a replica.
Buzz: one would use forms or 'mandrels' run into the sheath to force it back into shape perhaps with external hammering. There are many tutorials on YT about brass musical instrument dent repair which show methods. th-cam.com/video/9bothbuosSM/w-d-xo.html
The dents look large enough to cause structural problems.
Possibly, but in modern times it's a collectors item and not an active use weapon so potential weakness is not an issue, Given the fact it's also the scabbard, if it was 150 years ago and the sword was going to be taken into battle as a sidearm, the user would likely be even less concerned about a dent in the scabbard, so long as the blade still worked.
Or even "Look at that large dent! I'm pleased the scabbard was there to protect my blade!"
My opinion is, if the original owner would have made the repair, then there is no legitimate reason for the modern owner not to do so.
Many years ago a man took a hammer to Michelangelo's Pieta. That damage was historical, it was repaired. Should it not have been?
Just because something is historical doesn't make it valuable or even pertinent to the object it is associated with.
As to what the original owner's opinion might have been on utility, he was an officer, and for an officer in the Victorian Army appearances counted. Few if any officers of the time were so constantly at war that they could not have repaired their weapons.
Finally: Matt has several videos about repairing and cleaning swords. Should he not have repaired? Is the patina on a sword also historic? Should he not have cleaned them?
About scabbards and latin - in Polish, a word for scabbard is "pochwa", which is the exact same word, as "vagina" (yeah, there is "wagina", which also means vagina, but there isn't really much difference)