Medieval swords: How shiny were they?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2017
- Modern replicas of medieval swords feature a range of levels of polish, from quite rough satin finishes up to absolute mirror polishes. But how polished were actual medieval swords?
/ historicalfencing
/ eastonantiquearms - กีฬา
"the serpent in the steel..." If that's not a badass name for a metal album, I don't know what is!
"anyone can do it"
Time to have my 93 year old blind neighbour polish my sword.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
You live next to Rutger Hauer?
If it requires "a little bit of time", I don't think a 93 year old is your best option.
why? not like she's doing anything
Honestly I was going to put 3 year old at first but then I thought about the other meanings of polishing a sword and decided against it.
"You don't polish it!
It's not true! It's bullshit!
You don't polish it.
You do no-o-ot.
... Oh, hi Paul!"
"The Room" (Matt's room, 2017)
Anyway, how's your sex life?
Kek
bijad alqraish keK
Hai Doggie.
I'm so happy that you're my best friend and I love Lisa!
"These swords are richer for their iron than for the value of
the gold [which embellishes them]: for there flashes out from them such a polished
brilliance that they reflect with the utmost fidelity the faces of those who look at
them."- part of a letter written about a gift of swords in the 6th century. Mirror polishes were done even before the Medieval period.
Al M - well mirrors were commonly made of brass in ancient age so "mirror polish" existed in bronze age, thousands of years BC, long before the use of steel, and since the abrasives are available in nature, even for hardened steel, you can assumed it transitioned with the change of metal.
So much to contribute here. The polish you are talking about between satin and mirror is most likely what would today be most closely matched by a hand rubbed finish. Historically they may have just used coarser grits on their buffing wheel or earlier have given it a hand rubbed finish. Polishing a carbon steel blade as much as you can has (at least in theory) the advantage of reducing the surface area where rust can form. Satin finish is my favorite for a few reasons. You can get one by just grinding up to a 220 grit belt and then using a scotchbrite wheel (which is currently my favorite thing in my shop). That is the finish on the Albion sword you are looking at - it is achieved using scotchbrite. Polishing a sword to a hand rubbed near mirror polish takes just long enough for a piece of your soul to die, and then another piece dies as soon as the blade gets a scratch. More so for a mirror polish if hand work is involved. The last 10% of making a blade (the fit and finish) takes me more than 50% of the total time. But a satin finish hides the scratches somewhat better, it’s not as glaring of a contrast against a mirror polish, and Albion swords are mainly intended to be useable. So a mirror polish is pretty but if I had a sword I knew I would be using (half swording into armor, fencing, getting guts on), I would be happy to use one with file marks. Of note, blood is extremely corrosive unless you get the blade dry ASAP. Carbon steel hunting knives immediately take on a patina after field dressing a deer and they will rust if not dried completely.
Such a simple question yet you go on for 19 minutes that's a skill
One of the things helping the Medieval sword polisher (or engraver, or grinder) was the fact that the steel was in general a fair bit softer than a typical modern sword blade.
I've always thought that your Poitiers is perhaps the most beautiful arming sword I have ever seen, and the polish was a big reason behind that, it looks fantastic.
Matt, slight correction. You can mirror polish pattern welded blades and keep the pattern. The blade is etched until the contrasting steels form a relief, then buff the oxides off. The pattern remains, and the steel will have a different colour contrast with the more subtle colors of the steel/iron.
Man the painted styles of armour with heraldic patterns must have been amazing I’d just love to see some gothic plate armour painted in red or red and black
I fear some day Matt will cut a ear off by mistake.
Testacabeza ya
I think we could simply call it a reduction and move on
I wonder in which context
I've been tacitly waiting for this video forever. Thanks, Matt :D
BTW an exceptionally preserved 9th-10th century Viking sword was found in Oppland Norway.
secretsoftheice.com/news/2017/09/05/viking-sword/
Adam Koncz Its mindblowing, I have misplaced tools outside that, when they reappear are fare more rusty and worn than that sword.
Oh my! Have you held that majestic glorious gilded Maximillian sword? Id get a heart attack if I touched that!
Yeah, I'm so jelly now
Then be glad you didn't touch it, not jealous ;-)
Aldor ye
Did you and knight errant co-ordinate these armour-covering videos or was it just a coincidence?
It would have been interesting to hear you talk about the "Schwertfeger", or "Panzerfeger" in this context, which had been an iconic crafting guild since the 12th century, specializing in polishing blades, or armor. de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwertfeger
Thank you for clearing that up. I saw one video, where a guy demonstrated Viking "sword technology" with what was obviously a field find, if not a river find, and from this he concluded that Viking swords were roughly made, and unpolished. I wouldn't expect a 14th - 15th century level of finish in a Viking sword, but if it is in the least true that Vikings "worshiped" their swords, or even just viewed them with pride, I would expect them to at least be pleasing to the eye. Also, a bright finish is easily done by hand with primitive tools, and the same logic applies. Man appreciates beauty in all things. Throughout history, we tend to make our prized possessions as beautiful as we possibly can.
That was great! Much more than moderately interesting. Will watch again.
Ha ha that good old Sansa quote. Looking forward to listening to your opinions on this, cause I've been thinking of the pros and cons for a such a long time!
On another hand, great video and thank you for your explanations on the Pattern/Damascus field in particular.
And yeah always trust Fabrice! So much knowledge and talent
Love your channel. It took me forever to look up what you and other tubers meant by pattern welding because of your accents. So many of you are brits, aussies, or canadian and your accent does not pronounce Rs very well, so I spent tons of time trying to research "patton" or "pattent' welding. I believe it was one of your other videos that finally gave the R sound that allowed me to finally be able to research it.
Happy to hear you are going to talk about the Sansa leather comment....i tried to look it up but I couldn't figure out how to Google it that didn't result in leather armor
What the HELL? You answered the question within the first 90 seconds! A new record.
Man, that video reminded me of one of your older sabres, that had a real mirror polish. The video is called "Blade preservation on an antique military sword".
Weapons and armour probably looked very nice on campaign, and duller in peace. A serving soldier has little to do with his time for several months at least. The availability of really fine polishing materials would prohibit a really smooth finish but the mirror-ish finish on Matt's talwar there would be pretty achievable.
that tulwar and Kris (I don't recall it's proper name from your video on it) look fantastic on the wall. in my opinion they outshine the others they're displayed with.
TheBeelzboss
I agree 100%
I figured the art of making a sword lent itself to finishing a sword as polished before presenting it to the owner, depending on status. the richer the more fancy and polished Then it tarnished over time.
Ian LaSpina just did a video on decorating armor: th-cam.com/video/rdI6PoJXmZg/w-d-xo.html
The welded lines are said to only show when blown on the blade.
So they´d be highly polished too.
A high polish doesnt remove the pattern as i understand it.
There's also the plant Equisetum arvense (field horsetail), that contains a high amount of silicone and was sometimes used for polishing metals (pewter for example) due to its rough surface, similar to sandpaper but very fine.
TH-camVoice sorry to be pedantic, but it's "silica" that's in horsetail.
There's nothing wrong with making that correction like that. Silicon, silicone(s) and silica are completely different materials. They are NOT interchangeable.
was medieval combat as quick as they said it was
I remember having a conversation with a chap that believed all medieval armor was black or dark blued, and he used for evidence, and I shit you not, armor portraits from the 1500 and 1600s and...honestly...some people are amazing.
Got a Calvin Klein ad under the video. No Superdry? The heresy!
Fabric and painted armor would really open up options for movies and shows. You could have a lot cheaper props and more colorful characters, making them easier to tell apart and not so drab. Why do movies think everything was caked in mud and rust?
Would painting a sword help keep it from rusting? I'd worry that the sheath would wear it off in most cases depending on the weapon.
I hear that nighttime raiders would cover their swords in filth so they wouldn't give off a glint.
I cant remember where but I think I did read about some early medieval text which mentions breathing on a blade to reveal its serpent, suggesting at least some were polished rather than acid etched.
I heard some larp people use metal brush to go over metal parts and weapons for their costumes (like buttons) and weapons & armor to give it rougher darker look instead of cleaner modern or polished look. Polish is just a matter of time after all, anyone can make anything metal mirror like if they have enough material and time
I reckon that it would depend entirely on demand at the time. In low demand periods, the weaponsmith would polish all the swords until they were gleaming and as attractive as possible. When in war and high demand, the smith would not necessarily have time to polish all the swords that much.
you need to do a video about blacksmiths. common misconceptions, famous ones, ect.
You say that that's Lucy's tulwar. Darn! Lucy is more dangerous than she looks!
jmchez polished tulwar...oh mien
*That* is such a nice sword (the Albion sword, shiny polish or not). Eye candy for sword enthusiasts.
Thanks for another interesting video.
I'm a bit skeptical of the idea that one can't etch a mirror-finished sword. While I've never worked with swords, I've been a metallurgist for over 30 years. I've polished plenty of samples to a mirror finish and then given them macro and micro etches. A mirror-polished surface will take a macro etch with no problem. The thermodynamics of the acid-steel reaction are not inhibited by a mirror-smooth surface. When we are going to do a macro etch and have no interest in examining a sample at high power, we sometimes don't polish the surface as closely because we don't need to remove the finest scratches. For my work, I've never stopped at a "satin" finish, but I can see where that could be good enough for etching to show a bold pattern. If I were making a sword that would be used in battle, I probably wouldn't bother to polish further just to have someone go out and mar the finish in battle. However, further polishing shouldn't make etching more difficult.
Someone has probably commented on this already but the name of the damask pattern in silk just comes from the name of Damascus steel.
Obvious when you think about it.
Thanks for sharing all your awesome info and knowledge! Love watching your videos. What do you think about the armor / weapons of the trailer of knightfall on the history channel? Love to hear your input. Keep up the great work
I'm so poor, I can't afford a lower end Windlass sword.. lol. Good video Matt.....I was curious about the finishes on Medieval swords. You see mirror polishes on swords from the renaissance, especially side-swords and rapiers. Thanks!!!
This is the kind of nitty gritty I live for.
Hello Matt nice video as always.
There is just one point I have to disagree and that is about the pattern welding. Etching is in fact not the only way to show the pattern. A very fine abrasive polish (particularly loose powder polish iirc) will show a pattern as well although not quite as clearly as if it were etched.
There is even at least one period account that talkes about a blade like that. The writer stated that the blade was especially reflective and patterned at the same time and surmises that this is probably due to the special powder that was used.
I don't have the source of that account ready but I should be able to dig it up again if someone is interested. It was in German however.
Greetings
i believe medieval swords are polished recording to the shiningness of the user's head
sky4eyes with enough rubbing even one's small head can shine...
I've seen a talk here on TH-cam by Tobias Capwell where he talks about the finishes on armor, and one of the helmets he uses as an example has has a monster painted on it.
You can bring a blade to a high finish and etch to bring out the pattern. I've never had a problem doing so- you don't need a rough surface for the acid to work and the slower the etch, the better the look imho.
Obviously this is personal, but I prefer satin finish to mirror finish. Well with swords anyway, I think it looks badass on a sword.
Extensive polishing would add to the cost of the sword. That suggests swords for the common sort would not be highly polished. The fact that the user would have to maintain that polish suggests that many may have been at least slightly pitted because they occasionally got slightly rusty.
Now if you were rich and the servants did the maintenance of the blade you'd want a high polish to reflect you status and the work needed was worth it.
I would think that you never stopped polishing your sword. The older sword the shiner the sword. It could have been the mark of a veteran.
Most modern fighting knives and bayonets, as well as guns have coatings--bluing, phosphating (parkerizing), paint, etc. I think the biggest motivation is corrosion resistance. If they blued and painted armor of the period, why didn't they do this commonly to swords?
I think you answered the question best around the 16 min mark.
I think back then, just like today, It came down to price, the more you were willing to pay, the more polished you could have your sword.
It doesn't make sense to me that the most affordable sword would have any kind of polishing on it, I wouldnt care...
"Just make it strong and sharp enough to use, and I'll pick up a better one off a fallen foe... matter of fact, Just give me one of those hammers back there, and put a slightly longer handle on it"
I don't think that is the case at all, I think it would depend solely on how many swords the blacksmith was selling to how much time he had to polish. Remember this was before capitalism was invented, economic theory was not very advanced. They would consider it pointless to charge less for a sword that could be easily shined to be as good as the others.
hmm...Im not so sure,
maybe,
maybe not...
I think there was a very clear understanding of what cost/value and functional/artisan ratios were.
Or labour was just much cheaper, and making a sword was very laborious so polish didn't make much difference proportionally. And sharpness mattered, and some might wear the sword daily and it would be a status symbol.
Economically it made a lot of sense to polish swords in pre-modern times. As an anology, would you want an unpainted car? It's cheaper!
lol, I'm probably not the right person to ask that question to, lol
I'm such a frugal cheepskate I would totally go for the cheaper, no paint car and just spray the bare metal with that waterproofing spray people use on their shoes/clothes ;)
But I do see where you are coming from...
While I agree in general, I'd rather say that most high-end swords would have near-mirror polish, not most swords overall.
Because I believe that, just like munition grade armours were often just painted, if at all, most munition grade swords wouldn't have been polished at all as well, and just like munition grade armours, munition grade swords were made in greater quantities and so would represent the majority of the medieval/renaissance swords.
Yeah but, give someone with a lot of downtime (such as some kind of soldier) a strip of leather or a handful of sand and a sword, and that sword will be damn shiny soon enough.
Yeah, but why would he do that? Munition grade weapons and armour were just that - disposable, why waste time on something you might have to replace soon?
Because especially munition grade weapons were stored for long times and the more polished a blade is the less rust you will get. Polishing a blade doesn't require much skill at all, you can hand some abrasive material to any kid in a workshop and have it polish away if you don't have water-driven machinery anyway (as many big workshops pumping out big quantities of weapons would have). The end product will be a blade that is more resistant to rust and has consumed nothing more than unskilled labour and some fine sand, which doesn't cost much at all.
Basically, you pay a bit more for higher polish, or you pay a lot more for people to regularly clean and oil all your stored weapons, or they turn to rust rather quickly.
Why not just put oil on it and forget about it? Is polishing really needed in that case?
Oh wow you've reminded me of Ultima Online where you could get armor of different colors (made of different metals).
please do a full video on wootz. the pattern is absolutely gorgeous. also were there any armors specifically made to deal with cold weather?
I have a video on wootz, actually. Not amazingly good video, but the information should be useful.
Nice videos, mate. Subbed.
Well, you could live in England and you wouldn't have to worry about hot weather.
Sometimes you put some clothes (hood, furs) on top of armor instead, to protect it from rain or snow.
Cold weather armor? Gambison! It's literally a bunch of layers of fabric.
Excellent again, Matt! (Except we assume that "medieval" implies Europe, possibly including Russia.)
It would make sense that nobles and showmen would polish the crap out of their armour and actual veterans would have far grungier armour. But that's not to say that shiny armour was unheard of on the battlefield. Modern soldiers can be seen with both ragged and brand new gear all the time. Especially if their equipment is damaged it's likely that it would get replaced or upgraded periodically. As for swords it'd make sense that they'd maintain their weapon just like soldiers from any period of history, especially given the fact that they'd have to clean their weapons almost immediately after every contact with an enemy because you can't just put a blood-caked sword right back into the scabbard.
Looks at title. Looks at run time. Ah yes, this is a Matt Easton video.
So the short "answer" is "rather shiny" - @Mat: do say tho, have you and Ian conducted correspondence on this Topic lately as it seems you made two videos that complement each other quite nicely for those subscribing to both of your channels.
It might be easier to use terms like: Early Middle Ages (5th to the 10th century CE), High Middle Ages (11th, 12th, and 13th centuries) and Late Middle Ages ( which by convention end around 1500). All dates are approximate.
Matt please talk more about poleaxes or armor combating weapons in generall
there are also ways to polish a blade that make the pattern welding come out and it can still be done with a mirror polish as the base before etching, people do it today.
though im sure modern etch-ants help the process so thatd be up for debate.
also worth noting its the same in japan, you find swords that got dulled down or were left dull, apparently some people did this purposely to reduce chance of glare or whatever off the sword attracting anyone.
also my guess, people just like different things, some people prefer mirror finish, some people prefer a satin finish, or something in between, some people even like a rough look. and also what you can afford.
Questions:
1. Would the heat discoloration (yellow through blue) on the surface of a blade affect the blade's temper?
2. Is this a viable option to help the steel blade avoid rusting as easily?
3. Would the coloration have to be relatively even throughout the blade, or would it be feasible to have a battle ready blade with varying heat marks throughout (spots varying from yellow through blue)?
I imagine that the degree of shine varied in the time of the Middle Ages, in the dark age I tend to think that swords because they were only owned by people who could afford them, I.E members of nobility and so forth would have been well maintained and as a result sharp and shiny with of course a lot of them being pattern welded, of course though other bladed weapons like daggers, seaxes and axes would have been owned by the common freeman as they would have been much cheaper but because the commoners wouldn’t have had the money to hire craftsmen to keep the blades polished razor sharp and shiny to the degree that a rich nobleman could so they would have probably just done basic maintenance and leave it at that, as long as it could cut they would be happy and most would care less for pattern welding and shiny polishing, of course not all rich nobility may have bothered with the shining of the sword ether but most likely would have had it maintained to a pristine condition as a symbol of status, as we move on into the late medieval ages and early renaissance as swords become less expensive due to new methods of manufacturing them and as a result the sword would become more popular even with the common man, archers and common foot soldiers in the Hundred Years’ War for example would have carried a sword as their back up but just because swords were more available doesn’t mean that everybody would of maintained them to pristine glory, commoners without the money or the time would have not had shiny blades and their sword would be a very basic sword for that matter but rich nobility especially knights and lords would have again had the money to get finely decorated shiny swords that were polished every day by the craftsmen they hired to do so or their squire if they were a knight and the same would go for plate armour which unlike swords however would be only available to very rich men a full suit that is a commoner may have been able to afford parts of the armour in the late Middle Ages but certainly not a whole suit, all in all commoners would have basic unremarkable blades and parts of plate armour while rich nobility would have had finely polished lavishly decorated swords and armour to match once again as a symbol of status
I would like to have my armor to have the scale still on it, with maybe some sort of oil coating to protect from rust.
No,Albion use scotchbrite pads. And do it by hand. From the hilt to top in one motion. That is the only way to do it,or else you can not make the finish smooth. And this i know for a fact. I got 84-or 85 Albions and they are all a little different in the polish. Some are a even polished,and some are higher polished ,some you can see that the hand of the polisher has done it a little unnewen,so you can see the streaks down the blade.The hilts and especially on the pommels,they use circular or vertical mowments. They have different ways to polish different pommel types.Dont use a buffing wheel at all. Use SB without oil.That gives a higher polish then with oil,as Albion does it. And do you want a higher polish.Use the gray scotchbrite without oil,and use a polishing compound by handrubbing. Doing things by hand,allways looks nicer than with machines. Albion use grey SB with oil to make the satin polish. They have given the swords this polish because when you cut and get scratches in the blade. It is easy for people to fix it by themselves. So there you go:-)) But a great vid as allways Matt
I know mirror polishing reduces rusting of steel.
Yeah, less surface for reaction.
Doesn't matter a lot for the low carbon steels they used originally.
It does... Low carbon, high carbon, there's not much different because for both the carbon level is very low and they rust the same. I think pure iron rusts a bit less.
I mean it doesn't mean much as the low carbon steel will rust a lot anyway even if mirror polished unless you oil it or wax it well.
Less places to hold water and form the rust.
Are there any particular practical considerations or benefits of different levels of polishing?
Fabrice sounds like a perfect name for a bladesmith. Almost too coincidental.
Note the distinction of "white arms" (swords and such) versus "black arms" (guns and such). Due to the different polish?
That's a nice sword.
Hey I watched this video and thought little of it, but I gotta say that I now don't think your quite right (in the regard to expecting between a satin and mirror polish) I do some armature blacksmithing (very amateur mind you) and I decided to hand file and sand a knife I was making. I must say that tiny knife (only a few inches long) took forever to get to between a 150 and 100 grit finish. I dint clock it exactly but even when changing sand paper frequently to ensure preventing wearing down I probably spent somewhere around ten hours fighting with it. Mild steel is relatively easy to move but hardened steel does not sand readily. And while yes any bloke can sand and polish an object I don't think it's unreasonable for the majority of blades sold to lower class individuals to have a rough finish to save on time and money. I am of course still an amateur so feel free to correct me but it seems that lower finish blades would be just as effective and much easier to produce when compared to near mirror polished blades. (I mean with a file finish on this knife I was able to use it in carving out part of the handle before construction was complete so I don't think a rough finish really hurts a blade at all in terms of practicality).
Does anyone else prefer the satin polish?
I think I like it, because it hides blemishes a bit better.
It's 1:40 am in the morning Matt XD!
You would think that swords would be as polished as they could get them, it's not just a cosmetic thing, the higher a blade is polished the more corrosion resistant it is. No matter how much you clean an oil a blade corrosion will set in, especially if in contact with a highly corrosive substance, like blood, during a battle would be more than enough time. This guess is based on my experience with using carbon steel hunting knives, corrosion and staining can set in in the time it takes to field dress a deer, and on highly polished blades it takes a lot longer.
I think your average is only for the knights, I cannot imagine that foot soldiers and guards swords would be anything above satin because there are allot more of them than there are knights. Making all a high polish would be overly time consuming to make and to maintain for every one of their swords. A satin finish is much easier to maintain than a high polish and takes less skill to do, a common guard could maintain the finish by just oiling it before bed since the scratches would more or less blend in.
Could you do a fight review of the mountain vs the hound from s1 of GOT? I couldn't find it so im assuming you haven't done that yet.
hey Matt, where can I find good sources on Viking mythology surrounding the pattern in blades?
3:17 I already wondered why there is no video on that yet.
The Italian white armor was super shiny
Very interesting. I always assumed that the extremely shinny armour and swords in the movie Excalibur was bullshit, but apparently not.
What about burnishing with a steel tool? Nice videos by the way.
Wow! So G.R.R. Martin's descriptions of coloured armours isn't as fantastical as I thought. Perhaps less ubiquitous, but not unprecedented.
I imagine painted armour was good for maintaining the longevity
I have been told,the higher polish on a blade enhances its ablity to cut.your thoughts on this?
Tulwars are so sick
What sorts of oils for keeping the armor bright when not in use did they have back then. I thought they might have used animal fats, but something about that doesn't sound right. Perhaps it was fish oil? I am very curious.
Please talk about some of the armour in game of thrones, there are some really bad ones in there, although a couple are surprisingly good, just potentially mismatched against the other ones.
Last weekend I saw a scythe sword (the one depicted in the wikipedia article, or a good replica). What are your thoughts about those?
Can you talk a bit about animal use in warfare? what animals were used and in what contexts?
Boar riders?
Bulls?
Wasp basket grenades?
Dogs?
Birds?
Rhinos?
Dolphins?
Unicorns?
Is there known evidence of blades with a clear forge finish? Something like a completely unpolished backside where you can see the forging, with the actually ground blade?
Weren't some of the first mirrors high polished (mirror polished) bronze and then steel?
10:10 you forgot to mention scraping. That can be faster than filing.
Dude, is that a cars side-view mirror in the background to the right (behind and to the left of you)? If I recall correctly, Lindybeige has one too. What's up with that?
I want to know what the fencing pic on the wAll is from xD
What kind of acid would they have been used in migration - viking age?
Is it me or is the picture on the wall lopsided ? Really bugs me...
Did blackened swords exist in the middle ages?
Aldor I don't see why not. Oxide blackening isn't a difficult process.
That's what I was thinking as well. It's pretty easy to blue or oxidize a bit of steel, and it adds corrosion resistance.
I wander if some swords were painted crimson red