Surface Grinder Rebuild - part 3
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ส.ค. 2024
- Dovetail cutters are here!
In this installment we re-cut the dovetails & do more measuring.
Add clearances back in & talk about some other aspects of rebuilding.
Some people didn't like the machine sound during the sped-up
portions so I've taken the liberty to add some cheese -- let me
know what you think.
Also, apologies for any flicker. Not sure what I can do there.
Some say the grinder just fixed itself, others say it just worked after part 3. We'll never know the secrets the grinder will keep until part 4.
I've rewatched this rebuild a few times over the years, and I always forget that part 4 is missing. So here we are, once more. There's just something about early years TOT that reels me back in.
"Brazilian micrometer"... hehehe... I´v worked at Mitutoyo´s plant in Brazil where this micrometer was made. It was more than 25 years ago when I graduated from technical school.
Your videos are great. We notice as you get more relaxed and joyfull as long you release more videos in youtube. I´m just binge-watching them all.
So I just spent an hour and a half watching the first three videos of the freshening up of this surface grinder carriage/table....and there isn’t a completion video? You are a sick man Tony.
Tease!😂😂😂😂😂
I think he had to wait a bit, future Tony has a third hand to do the work and hold the camera at the same time but not back in 2014. Soon he'll get in the time machine, travel back, and upload the proper complete version.
@@bluepvp900 Not to mention a higher resolution camera. I'm looking forward to the completion in 4K and surround sound.
@@bluepvp900 He has a time machine. The lathe does time travel now. There's no excuse for this series not to be finished.
Your openness of trials .and tribulations are instructive and fun. And your discipline in staying away from the rabbit hole is a credit to you.
Stephen Metsch I
I've got one of those white grinding cups...they are definitely coconut, not lemon. Thanks for sharing your rebuild.
Blue Raspberry! Always!
Tony, I am also Tony, and like you I hate poorly greased machines, and watching three out of four videos of the best machine rebuild I've ever seen is like listening to a beautiful multiaxis mill table grind across it's ways due to lack of grease. Painful. Please, please, for the love of flatness, PLEASE SHOW US THE FOURTH VIDEO
Legend has it a part 4 is
I have been quite unwell this last few weeks and I'm not a good sick person I need to be out doing stuff ( I'm an aerospace engineer ) used to going working any place any time and getting on but you have kept me sane sir thank you I have had so much fun and enjoyment watching a true no BS engineer ps the nurf gun was just the best 👍🛠
Hey Tony,
Great video. Your video's are getting really good. Keep going we want to see this thing run!
cheers,
Tom
Man these machining/troubleshooting videos were so good. Just thorough explanation & presentation. I miss early yt machining.
As an apprentice 30 years ago we toured the G&L Plant in Fond Du Lac Wisconsin, they were doing a factory rebuilding job scrapping / truing what appeared to be a 70E4T horizontal boring bar probably a 84"×54"×6' travel machine identical to the one in our shop.
I love watching these machine tool rebuild videos and think what a daunting task it was to do machines of that size. If I remember correctly there were 3 or 4 full time guys who all they did was scrap. Was told years later by a G&L service technician that he could look at a scraped serfice and tell who scraped it by the pattern of the final hand scraping. Need to take the Richard King class before he hangs up his apron
I have a small, cheap lathe, and I have been trying to figure out how to scrape all the ways effectively to get a better bearing surface and reduce chatter. Thank you for showing how to measure and setup for scraping. I'm obviously not a machinist, and don't have any background in setting this stuff up. These vids have helped me a freaking ton in figuring out how to approach this. I know this is an old vid, but I'm just now starting this stuff, and this was really helpful. I like building my own tools instead of paying as much for a tool as my lathe costs. I do this for the fun, not production, so shop made is my lane. Great job, and thanks a LOT for the help.
man, I wish someone could tell this young guy about time machines and one inch punches; might boost his confidence
Great segment! I will most likely never perform this type of operation on any of my equipment but it is revealing to know how it is done and what effort it takes to do it. I appreciate your tenacity and enjoy your videos very much. Thanks for sharing your journey..... Fred
Really nice video series. This separates the men from the boys as far as diy projects go! I might have suggested a primary scrape pass removing the machines marks, then a good stoning prior to 1st fit and initial measurement. You may be surprised how much that changes the readings. Kudos to you for the way you think through each issue that arises. You are going to end up with one sweet grinder! Thanks Mike
You know considering what guys spend there it should be called McMistress.
but generally he's the one being bent over?
Simon Scott haha nice one
@@simonscott1121 pegged😂😂😂
This is a lot to follow having zero machining experience but you explain it well and I feel like I understand what’s going on. Thanks a bunch
Thank you for taking the time to record your project. I've been wanting to do some similar work on a small import mill that I have, but haven't had the guts or knowledge. I'm learning so much from watching your progress. Can't wait to see it done!
Where is part 4?
Hi excellent reflection on the ways to proceed with measures and setting up, good overview on scraping.
Well structured and well explained.
Thanks for showing,
Pierre
ToT, Great pun at 6:06. "My mill's got some funky wear in it. Funky for me...I'm sure they all wear in the same strange ways." Yep, they all wear in the ways. Some ways are stranger than others ;-)
Tot - as a new subscriber you should finish the series you started over 5 years ago.... It really is frustrating to not have a conclusion to this series even though we know you finished it... thanks and love your channel.
Meme ier Agreed. He’s a perfectionist though
You're probably well past this stage, but I thought I'd share my take on measuring dovetails 90 degrees from another axis to line it up with. I made a milling attachment for my lathe, and needed to cut the T-slots exactly 90 degrees to the dovetails. It was a similarly brain bending puzzle. Finally, this is what I came up with using a known accuracy engineer's square. I clamped and indicated in a square horizontal, in line with the axis I wanted to check against, then ran the milling attachment up and down and indicated off of the other side of the square.
Sounds confusing, but using your grinder saddle, I would do the same thing by placing dowels in the X axis dovetails (the ones you want to confirm), then clamp one end of the square to the dowels. Then just run the saddle in and out on the Y axis, with the indicator on the part of the square parallel to the Y axis, and watch if it moves side to side at all. If it doesn't, you're square with it!
Okay, i'm not a smart man, but that sounds promising
The algorithm hast threwn me deepeth into Thus Olde Tonee archives.
Terrific third segment and the Cheese was just fine. Really appreciate sharing your thinking processes on this monster project with us all. Some convoluted stacking/metrics/methodologies to work out..Nice Job. Looking forward to the next. Thanks...PJ
I never thought i was ocd but this incomplete series is killing me on the inside
Wow, that micrometer measures down to the brazillianth?
yep and its got no hair on it
I want to see Surface Grinder Rebuild Part #4 please
That 5SG46J is an absolutely fantastic wheel. I have one on my little surface grinder, and it wears well, cuts fast, and doesn't generate much heat.
Great video...enjoyed the table renew--- all three videos. Lots of great information for me. Learned some things. Thanks bud.
Just had a fun surprise of this Brazilian measurement. Happy to see that i'm not the only Brazilian man here
You and Kieth Fenner are the top two machinests on YT ive learned much,thanks.
Edad Martin have you ever watched Tom from ox tools?
Or Stefan Gotteswinter?
Everyone knows it's abom!
Abom is interesting, but by and large I learn more from Fenner and TOT videos. OxTools and BarZ are also great learning resources.
Searching for part 4... I love your content!
“Bone head move” ?
That was more than likely just a little nervousness on a borrowed machine .
Great videos Tony !!!
This is genesis of the This Old Funny.
You've got fun with measuring and sculpting, we have fun with watching your mistakes.
That moment when you run mill in low place twice after this whole two clips of rocket science fighting for a "thou" of dimensions was hilarious! 😂
Thank a lot for all explanations within the series. Got a lot of knowledge by watching them.
I saw those grinding wheels and I thought you were going to grind the ways. I can definitely hear that slitting saw running out as it's attempting to cut tru.
The solution I see to know the error of parallelism of your table, is 3D scanning service, most of the metrology systems, deliver very accurate measurements, in the US there are many who give the service and it is relatively cheap. Thanks for your videos
Wow your videos have come a long way sir. One of my most favorite channels now-a-days.
Damn, the tension in his voice makes this video like a top quality thriller movie, and i dont even joke! We re with you in spirit man, we re with you loll
Tony - if you had to do it all over again - wouldja? We're lucky to have you contributing this kind of valuable content round here. Thank you
I love Tony talking in serious manner
Watching this in 2021. The channel is quite a bit goofier now, but I enjoy both versions immensely!
Watching this again (4th time :-) ) now is like looking at TOT as you were evolving into him!
Hey Tony what happend to part 4 🤔 was really looking forward to watching it.
If I die before I get to watch part 4 I will make sure to haunt you Tony! Like slightly misaligning your lathe. You don't want that, do you?
sabziahun just watched all these and what a cliff hanger!
Nice! You're making him an offer he can't refuse...
Yes, very curious; How does the machine work?
I am pretty sure there was a part 4 at one point... sadly gone now
@@cmmartti It was taken down in the name of Social Justice and contained sensitive information from the Machinist Association of Brazil et al. He revealed the trade secrets and was silenced.
I think that was the most serious video I’ve seen from you.
Maybe a bit late but... Part 4?
Yes? was there a part 4, or did you abandon the project? (as i would totally understand)
This is great, I have to watch these videos a few times over before I more or less understand what is going on. But is is exiting to be able to bring back old machines to spec. New machines being totaly to expensive for me.
And BTW the quality of your videos is excellent.
Serious props for creative thinking here!
White grinding wheel is coconut
Part 4 coming back?
Hey this old tony. I look forward to your videos more than any other. Thank you and keep them coming. I know this is a very old post, but I couldn’t help but comment on it. I was wondering how much work you’ve been doing on the space shuttle or nuclear power plants in your area. I mean my god man, worrying about tens of thousands on a surface grinder ? Seriously ? A new surface grinder,,,maybe, but an old girl like that, I’d be happy with millimeters out of true. I must say, I admire your patience.
Is there a 4th and final video with the machine running?
Cant belive no one answered ur question.
I heard it got taken down by TH-cam.
I have became a different man after watching all three parts.
Thanks for the series! Contemplating doing this on my mill but feeling stuck between a massive scary project and a $4k quote to have someone else do it. Not sure I'm any closer to figuring that out, but at least I know how much pain I might be in for either way. 👍👍
I recently went to ask for a quote on a lathe refinish, the guy spat out 10K euro price... I looked at the guy and said, for scraping and measuring? Fuck ill do it myself, and when im done, i will have spent 2K in precision equipment that i will have great use of, a brand new machine and 8K for hookers and cocaine... He sourly tried to insult my ability to use micrometers and machinist levels by implying that he gobbles the knob so good that its worth the price... I told him i will bend over and gobble my own knob if i have to, as that is the spirit in which i bought these machines - to make my own shit that some rude cocksucker would rob me of an arm, a leg and a kidney for... We parted thereafter, him dissatisfied that he aint gonna get 10k, and me satisfied to know that i am going to scraping in every inch of my huge lathe with love, as for 10k i can get almost factory state lathes in same size, and i bought mine out of love for her, not outta expectation that i will get a factory state from a lathe twice my age... But apart from minor issues, she is in an amazingly good condition... But needs scraping in eventually, as she does have wear in the ways...
Tony! You have amazing patience!
I'm too late on this, but next time getting your ways perpendicular on the XY casting, I would stand it up on end on the block setting the machined(y?) way to 90 straight up. then you can run your indicator along the block insuring that you are perpendicular.
For the 90° squaring: affix a laser pointer to your square, and a laser pointer parallel with the other dovetail. Hang a sheet on the far side of the room for the points to land on, and compare the offset of the two.
Careful - I've had laser pointers where the beam was several degrees different from the body of the pointer. I don't think most of them are made to be precision measuring instruments.
@@Erhannis Calibration is a given. I didn't think anyone would rely on the body of the pointer for alignment.
@@victoriam586 Maybe I don't understand your setup, then. The dots cast by the lasers would be practically independent of the position and orientation of the pointer, in an absolute sense on a machinist's level of precision (though still dependent in a relative sense, like weird 3d dial indicators). Rolling the pointer 90* could shift the resulting dot by inches. How do you propose to calibrate such a system? There probably IS a way, given how particularly straight light is, but it sounds non-trivial, at best, and extremely difficult, at worst.
@@Erhannis Despite collimation, laser pointers' beams aren't one-dimensional and are somewhat spread out - you can use that to tell how parallel the beam is with an intersecting surface by the visibility of its line.
Align a couple pointers to a good surface plate at a far-away paper for a height reference. Bracket a pointer onto a 123 block at a known height and tweak until its dot is at the expected distance above the reference line for both pitch and yaw. Repeat as needed, and hey, laser square!
I know it's not laboratory precision but enough time investment should get plenty accuracy for a homeshop :V
@@victoriam586 I think I'm beginning to understand - or at least, beginning to see how you might measure how square two things are to each other. We're specifically talking about perpendicularity, right? And of which parts - the vertical axis to the front-back axis, or the left-right axis to the front-back axis? (And of which components of the table?) You might, say, put the machine in the middle of the room, clamp a square to the left-side face of the measured surface, clip two pointers to e.g. dial indicator stands on the left side of the room, and then aim them very carefully so that their beams respectively align with the left-right edge of the square and the left-right edge of e.g. one of the dovetails or whatever else you're trying to measure. Then you'd have e.g. a posterboard, and...let's see, set it up close to the machine, mark the laser locations, and the posterboard's position, then move it far away and measure how far you've, align one of the dots with its previous location, then mark the new position of the other. That might give you...how quickly the two lines are coming closer together or farther apart, but would not as readily show "twists", where the two beams might reach a closest point and then diverge again. And you'd likely need to ensure the posterboard stays perpendicular to at least one beam - likely the one you centered on after moving the posterboard. (If it were perpendicular, though, translations could likely be calculated out, and you could skip the "align the beam to its previous position" step, which _might_ let you keep your posterboard's rotation around the reference beam fairly constant without a lot of shenanigans.) I'm still not sure I know what setup you were trying to describe. Have you done this before? Would you happen to have a diagram or something?
Hi Tony, I'm re watching the surface grinder series but I can only find the first 3 episodes on your channel and a "private video" last on the playlist. Any chance you can re-upload the final instalment? Thanks for all the great content!
Yes! had to take it down but I plan to re-upload. My apologies.
Me too here. o/
Tony, i need closure with this series. please upload the last surface grinder video so I can move on with my feeble existence
This Old Tony upload the video already!!!
I'm gonna need part 4 soon man I can't end on a cliff hanger
multiple axis relationship galore!! Head spinning...
I like they way you switched to soft-porn background music when ooggling the Itawa mill !!!
Very nice to see the progress!
"The Rolls-Royce of dial indicators".... as in: almost nobody has one? As in: replacement parts are affordable?
Cute little bird at 3:09
I wish this surface grinder rebuild was in a playlist.
Gosh I subscribe to this channel for so long and just now I noticed your mike is from here, Brazil.
How cool!
"I'm not trying to go nuts here."
Can you re upload part four please?
Totally binging out on these vids man! Great work!
Really interesting. Thanks for posting this.
What ever happened to part 4? I Seem to remember watching it once, now that I am stuck in a vacation home with the in-laws for a better part of a week, this seemed like a nice time to revisit that old series... Has it been removed for some reason? Best wishes; a long time viewer from Denmark.
hope to have it back up soon!
@@ThisOldTony psssssst
Great Fun and interesting to watch Tony - thanks mate
Cheers
pete
Great video. I hope I never have to open up that can of worms.
Ooh an oldie.
Wow your hands have changed so much in 8 years 😂
Thanks for the series.
Please coe back to us, our leader!
My favorite part of this series so far is that watermelon slice with a shocked expression at 24:49. :o
We need that re upload of part 4....
When ToT had the filming abilities of AvE
thanks for video, ran into same situation - lathe: pinned headstock/ways/ = shimmed
Is this an old 1st this old tony video or a new one?
Either way I like it. You can hear in your voice the lack of confidence in yourself but you are pushing forward proving with a little know how and a lot of guts you can do anything.
It says it's from 2014, so certainly an older old Tony 😀
@@ollieb9875 I'm old so it took me a minute to notice there are dates of postings. But thanks for answering a stupid question. Lol
Great video/discussions
I'm scratching my head looking for the part 4 only to realize there's one. (T^T)
Great vid, very useful! Thank you.
Luiz Ally
It's now 2020 still no part 4! Anyone know if it's out somewhere?
I have been going though all of this old Tony’s videos because I’m damn sure he had one if changing his mag base on the grinder but I’ll be damned if I can find it
18:00 You could also have indicated something square like a parallel, on your mill table, then clamped that up on the bottom geometry, then using a pin in the dovetail and a precision square. Indicate the side of the square with the y travel of your mill. It wouldn't even matter if your mill wasn't perfect, because it is consistent with the way the master on the table was indicated. The part where the indicator on the precision square wasn't 0 is the place where the deviation is.
Bump for #4 tot please repost.
What happened to part 4?
Bump
bump again!!
Bump
bump
The reality check that you can't "rebuild' scrap machine tools into anything but better-looking scrap by "scraping' more metal off of worn-out metal "precision surfaces" finally got to the bank and couldn't clear because "machinists" like Tony here depend on being "experts" for their TH-cam/Patreon "living".
Is there no part 4 or is it mixed up somewhere among later videos?
Love the fruit flavoured grinding wheels. I did not notice one use of the TWB of the lathe even once. Great Video
@9:16 Barry White saying "Oh, Ya". Baby! Oh, your knees and ways! You spindle turnin', somethin' or other. You are my little Dovetail! She is GORGEOUS! Yes, Tony, I realize it is not yours. Does the owner of that machine tool have a Channel? No! It is only a matter of time before some filthy rich fan of yours sends you one. In the "box". Not me, unless I win Powerball. But he or she is out there. You deserve it. And this is an OLD video! You have evolved in an unexpected "way". (Tee Hee). You are Great.
Have you done any more work on the rebuild? Enough suspense already! Cant wait to see it make sparks.
Fun, interesting and informative, great again sir. P.S.: Could you speak to AvE, I know you guys are tight. If you could just get him to loosen up a bit, too prim and proper by twice I think. Always ready to stand corrected, Steve
At 8:58, I squinted when you brushed the metal shavings towards the camera. Safety Squints automatically engaged!
ImConstantlyConfused Same with welding shots haha
Anytime you introduce a right angle to a radius you always provide the ability for stress risers to form and cracks too follow. I dont think i would have used the slitting saw. I think i would have used some type of small end mill ball to eliminate the right angles.
Part four please good sir
Hey same
Arrrrgh. No Part 4?!