Honestly man, this is a great video. i’m a big fan of Anakin Skywalker and he’s honestly my favorite character in all of Star Wars but I have to agree. (And this is kind of long I’m sorry but please read this) To say that mace Windu hates Anakin is false, however if one wanted to make the argument that he didn’t trust him while necessarily not despising him, I would accept that. However, Mace actually has a lot of reasons to distrust Anakin that I fully understand. There is this saying that “ it takes a village to raise a child“ and if any blame was to be placed on Anakin‘s fall to the Dark side, part of that blame should go to the entirety of the council, not just Mace.I will acknowledge that they do lie to him to his face (example being the Obi-Wan undercover arc) and The issues surrounding Ahsoka regarding her arc where she was on trial, basically just giving her up for political convenience and at the time The evidence against her was overwhelming, so I get it. But back on Mace, looking from his perspective this is what I see: You are the leader of the Jedi order. In your title you are literally called Master Of The Order. essentially you are this organizations father. Every Jedi in the temple is your responsibility, including this emotionally unstable, erratic, and increasingly violent Jedi Who has no regard for rules and the Jedi code except when it suits him. As the days of war go on, you see how unstable he is becoming and how close he is becoming with Chancellor Palpatine which really doesn’t help. Even though Anakin is powerful, he does not have the discipline and patience that comes along with being a master yet. Just because you kill Dooku and rescue the chancellor doesn’t mean you get a seat on the council. Anakin constantly pines for more Power and privileges and that speaks volumes as to why Mace is so strict with him. This is not Jedi behavior and if Anakin can’t see that, that’s his problem. If you clearly see someone who is acting out of pocket, The last thing you would do is give them a promotion when they haven’t earned it and they display to you on multiple different occasions as to why you don’t have the position. Granted they should’ve got this dude a therapist because he was not well, but in the end Anakin‘s choices were all his own. No one in the Jedi council, especially not Mace, turned him to the dark side. No one forced him to kill children, no one forced him to slaughter everyone in the temple. No one forced him to choke out his pregnant wife and fight Obi Wan before getting cut up and burned. Just because you don’t have the support structure you need and are subsequently pushed right into the arms of your manipulator, it doesn’t give you a free pass to do a bunch heinous shit. ( Also Azula from ATLA is a good example of this) Every time I watch Anakin burn on Mustafar, there is always this feeling of “ you deserve this for all of the horrible things that you’ve done. You slaughtered 2 GROUPS OF INNOCENT CHILDREN who looked to you for help and thats only what we’ve seen, there could’ve been more. You have no one to blame but yourself”. Again, The boy is my favorite character but Mace is my second and can’t stand when people try to put blame on Mace Windu for not “being nice to him” or “not showing him compassion like Obi Wan or Ahsoka“ Real talk, some people need tough love. These two are like his brother and sister, while Mace is SUPPOSED to act like his father and not turn a blind eye when he acts out of line. But yeah those are my thoughts and again, great video!
Yo man this is beautiful. Seriously you really summed up what I was trying to say perfectly! (Actually your comment is way better than my rambling vid haha.) but I completely agree and love this reply. I had no idea this vid would get so much traction. I wish I put more effort to organize my thoughts better because I forgot to mention a lot of stuff like the Ashoka trial, Boba Fett, Zillo Beast etc. I might make a part 2 one day but for now seriously thank you so much! I’m going to pin this. :)
Just like you said,Mace acted like a father: Strict,but with the best of intentions on heart.I like to think that he may not like Anakin,but he still respected him as a warrior
The only way that mace truly contributed to Anakins choice was when he said the exact same thing palpatine, which Anakin had just learned was a sith, said. He didn’t understand the dark side, but was given a promise by palpatine, and once Mace said that Palpatine was too dangerous to be left alive, it pretty much solidified the concept that the sith and Jedi were just different perspectives, and that the sith actually cared about the lives of others and the Jedi didn’t, even if it wasn’t true. Edit: But had Anakin listened and stayed in the temple, that wouldn’t have happened.
Perfectly said. I love that part where you mentioned obi wan, ahsoka, and mace. Obi wan is like his big brother, ahsoka is like his little sister, but mace is like his father. I fully believe if Mace trained anakin, which he definitely should’ve instead of obi wan who was still way too inexperienced, he would’ve succeeded in preventing him from going to the dark side
People's hatred towards Mace Windu is tied in with the fanbase's misunderstanding of the Jedi. Mace did not hate Anakin. Fans portray Mace as this cold-blooded killer when that couldn't be further from the truth. Like we saw in Tales of the Jedi Mace was against killing. The only person Mace wanted to kill was Palpatine and that's because Palpatine controlled the courts. So no justice could be served because the system had become corrupt.
@@eatingpancakesrightnow2786 Nah, Mace deflected the first shot away and then the second one was a moment of self-defense. The episode shows Mace avoiding killing so it's unlikely he would have done that on purpose. Plus the guard was shooting his blaster when Mace had no intention of fighting.
@@matthewk4912 I don’t think Mace is a murder… but killing the guard was completely on purpose with shot 2… otherwise we just have to look at him like “oopsie teehee”. Mace is too skilled to have the deaths he causes be unintentional.
The projection you speak of applies also towards the fans' views on the Jedi. Fans say the Jedi were emotionless robots that didn't care about anyone about themselves. But we see the Jedi forming deep bonds with their masters, apprentices, fellow Jedi, the clones, and the people they protect across the galaxy. Their philosophy, though, is to not get too attached because that can cloud their judgement and put them at risk to making bad decisions. So the Jedi strive to focus on the greater good over personal feelings. They didn't forbid or look down on anyone from forming attachments or getting married, as long as they did it outside of the Jedi Order. This is like real life, like government and protector positions have strict requirements if you want to be in them.
the whole point of mace windu was that he was the representation of everything wrong with the jedi Thats why he and palpatine both say "He's too dangerous to be left alive" showing that the jedi aren't that much better than the sith Thats why he rushes in to face palpatine before telling the council, showing how the jedi don't think things through and aren't trusting each other Thats why he breaks the jedi code to kill palpatine, showing how the jedi are hypocritical Thats why his lightsaber is purple, its closer to red than all of the other jedi, showing how the jedi are getting closer to the dark side
One reason I've always thought as to why people didn't like Windu is because he's the one who told Anakin that he was allowed on the council but not given the rank of Master, when the decision had to have been agreed upon by the majority or entirety of the council, not just Mace.
Even Obi Wan didn't think Anakin was ready yet, though he did say to Anakin that he shouldn't overlook the honor he had been granted by getting a seat on the council even if it was under unusual circumstances. Obi Wan seemed to think that Anakin was close to being ready, but that he still had to get over a few hurdles to do so, and if Anakin didn't turn to the dark side he would have been correct.
Also the fact that people think Mace is just plain cold is 100% wrong. He shows so much care and love and respect for his fellow Jedi friends like Kenobi, Yoda, and his own padawan Depa and also the clones. He shows genuine sadness for when he says Even Piell will be missed after dying at the Citadel rescue. Even in the part where he’s kind of an a-hole to boba saying he’ll have to forgive him, you can tell he’s genuinely and actively listening to boba when confronted by him as he kneels down to eye level with him. Also he was able to tolerate jar-jar for a whole mission, more than most could ever do
the whole point of mace windu was that he was the representation of everything wrong with the jedi Thats why he and palpatine both say "He's too dangerous to be left alive" showing that the jedi aren't that much better than the sith Thats why he rushes in to face palpatine before telling the council, showing how the jedi don't think things through and aren't trusting each other Thats why he breaks the jedi code to kill palpatine, showing how the jedi are hypocritical Thats why his lightsaber is purple, its closer to red than all of the other jedi, showing how the jedi are getting closer to the dark side
@@minerpvpgaming2160 your still misunderstanding him, in the rots novel yoda already had approved Mace going to confront Palpatine. The only thing that changed is now Mace knew he HAD to be arrested. The council had already planned to confront Palpatine.
@@minerpvpgaming2160Yes, however, Palpatine was REALLY dangereous to be kept alive. He had full control of the senate, he was a literal sith lord, you cant just friendly arrest that guy. Well, you know what happened next. Thousands of Jedi were brutally assassinated, and for generations the galaxy suffered under Palpatine's command
I think its mostly cause Dave Filoni making Mace look bad as often as possible. For instance with the whole Ahsoka leaving the Jedi Order where Mace is first in line to just hand over Ahsoka to Palpatine. However, we know Mace is super Anti Palpatine and hates the Senate interfering in Jedi Business. So it makes no sense for him to be first in line to just do whatever Palpatine wants because he is afraid of the PR Hit or whatever.
Mace actually respected Palpatine once because he thought that Palpatine was the leader who could save the republic, but over the clone wars he sees Palpatine slowly amassing power and it becomes revealed that Dooku's statement about how the sith lord controlled the senate became true.
@@based4560At this point of the war (little over halfway iirc), Mace does not trust the Senate anymore. It’s complete character assanation to have Mace act like this. One of the main points of his character is that he doesn’t care what the public thinks if he feels he’s doing the right thing.
Mace Windu is a fucking chad and is one of my favourite Jedi. From what I've heard the lore reason for his saber and ship being purple is because his fighting style is far more aggressive and method of dealing with things is far more action orientated, and thus a middle ground between light and dark. And besides, I don't remember Anakin ever being striped of his lightsaber in a droid caused dust storm and using only his fists and the force to destroy an army of super battle droids after his clone forces were wiped out
Before watching I 100% have thought the same for years.Mace is at worst kind of rude to Anakin.He never showed any malice towards him.I plan to make a different video about why I don’t think mace is a bad guy on my Star Wars channel but our boy mace needs some more respect asap ! Edit amazing video VERY high quality content for a smaller channel 100% hit the nail on the head with discussing mace’s character
@@spacewizrd yes it is and thank you my friend !I only post on weekends usually cause of school so it will take a while but I’ll try to make it as soon as I can
the whole point of mace windu was that he was the representation of everything wrong with the jedi Thats why he and palpatine both say "He's too dangerous to be left alive" showing that the jedi aren't that much better than the sith Thats why he rushes in to face palpatine before telling the council, showing how the jedi don't think things through and aren't trusting each other Thats why he breaks the jedi code to kill palpatine, showing how the jedi are hypocritical Thats why his lightsaber is purple, its closer to red than all of the other jedi, showing how the jedi are getting closer to the dark side
@@minerpvpgaming2160 1 - true 2 - actually Mace did contact Yoda, but the scene was cut from movie and instead incorporated into novel. Tons of stuff was trimmed out in post production and it's one of the scenes, happened just before Anakin reveals identity of Sidious. Overall Jedi had a plan. After Kenobi kills Grievous, they would go to Palpatine and gauge his reaction, if he would lay down his emergency powers. Yoda did warn that Sidious was still out there somewhere and they would have to anticipate his reaction. Windu agreed and took with him 3 best Jedi he could find on Coruscant. All Jedi Masters with plenty of war experience, not some pushovers (they still died in few seconds). Yoda finally gave the OK. 3 - tied to previous point, Jedi got the OK from Yoda to march into office of chancellor and persuade him by looking menacing to lay down his powers, if not they would attempt a coup. News from Anakin didn't change the plan at all, as they were already going anyway. Only difference is that they knew they were going to meet a Sith Lord. With that said, he also accumulated full control of senate and courts, at this point Jedi were really out of options because they were simply too late and wake up call happened precisely when Palpatine wanted, to force them into morally compromised situation. Not too long ago they also sanctioned mission to assasinate Dooku with disastrous results, so attempting coup wasn't too far away in my book. 4- it's only because Sammy L Jackson wanted purple :P
About time someone said this. Lol. The one thing the Kenobi show did right was Vader saying Obi-wan didn't kill Anakin. The reason people project onto him is because if Mace and Palpatine are responsible for all of Anakin's crimes, then that means that they can blame all their awful behaviour on other people too. I saw the same thing happen when Bakugo apologised to Deku in My Hero Academia. Everyone who defended Bakugo's bullying had a big freak out when they realised that the point of his character was redemption and not approval. And that they could no longer justify their own attitudes.
Yeah a lot of yonger fans who grey up watching TCW have a very different idea of Anakin. That interpretation of Anakin was very different from what we saw in the movies and if that's your inital preception of the character, it would make sense to feel that way.
@@jupiterapollo4985certainly, i never really felt that he needed any changing but my home was turned into a junkyard by a natural disaster and i played in the junk and built stuff in it as well as having anger management problems at the time i viewed the movies so maybe i was just the perfect storm to find him compelling ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I also think the original version gelled better with the themes of the movies but its buddhism for 12 year olds so i dont think that tragically altruistic anakin is the end of the world.
Mace reminds me of Lucas from Stranger Things. Out of the trio of boys looking for their friend, he is the most realistic of the group. Both Mike and Dustin were quick to accept the fantasy of Eleven's powers, while he saw it as a waste of time. This eventually lead to a falling out because he also had suspicious feelings that Eleven had something to do with the disappearance of their friend. And he was half right. When he was on his own, he found some clues and went back to the group; and thus slowly accepted Eleven as a friend. Mace was a true Jedi and a frim believer in his cause. But he wasn't going to let fantasy words affect how he treats a padawan who "still has spots." Even when Anakin told him the truth about Palpatine, he still put him in his place because he wanted to be safe. Unfortunately for everyone, Anakin shares the fate of most child stars in reality; that they get used to the praise of their fame and potential that they grow up believing that they are to achieve so much with less time and effort as anyone else. Anakin always meant well; but he is hot headed, impatient, emotionally immature. He is young, and the only Jedi he ever seemed to respect was Yoda and of course Obi-wan. So Mace is like the strict teacher who is tough because he has to be taken seriously, but wants the best for all of his allies. From the start, he took Anakin's supposed "Christ-like" upbringing with a grain of salt. I do not believe it was him that ultimately lead Anakin to the Dark side, but it was too much emotional weight that Anakin was too frustrated to carry. Mace ultimately decided to break out the norm of the Jedi order to kill Palpatine because he realized how the Senator had been manipulating everyone. Everyone had been following the rules, making them predictable. He had the perfect opportunity to kill him, but Unlimited Power got the better of him. Keep in mind he still tried to protect Anakin much like how Snape protected the kids from the werewolf; despite their sour relationship. Priorities are kept up, and it was a tragic end for Windu. At least these are my two cents. Any thoughts?
Anakin fell from grace due to a multitude of issues but Mace certainly didn't help matters. He was also a jerk to Ashoka and threw her under the bus when she was falsely accused of terrorism. After Boba tried to assassinate him to avenge his father Mace essentially told him to get over it, not even attempting to apologize or the very least show a modicum of empathy. Mace isn't the most diabolical evil guy but his strictness and lack of compassion turns him into an obstacle.
Mace mishandling the case with Ahsoka was a completely different issue. It certainly had no bearing on his personal opinions about Anakin. And why exactly should Mace have apologized for defending himself against Jango's attempt to kill him? It's understandable that Boba would be upset about his dad being dead, but Windu was not in the wrong.
He should not apologize for killing Jango. That was extremely justified. And Boba has no right to judge either, he went out killing people himself and was fully on board with his fathers plans.
@@decepticonxhunter4850 He killed him fair and square. Jedi are meant to refrain from killing defenseless prisoners (it's a war crime after all and they are supposed to be honorable and somewhat chivalrous like knights were at least supposed to be). In the heat of battle kills do happen if you can swing a weapon which can cut through everything. Jango knew what he signed for.
@@ordo_draigo_assault_ham Not really, no. Also, that’s just a revenge line. Murder goes around killing people, finally loses to someone. His kid kills that someone, that someones kid kills the original murderers kid, and on it goes. Jango deserved to die, he was a Murderer and was actively aiming to kill Mace, but he failed because Mace killed him.
Thank you for saying this you are 100 PERCENT CORRECT. More people love Count Dooku who enslaved many of the people during the zygerian arc and the twileks of ryloth which Mace had to go and free them all because Mace was stern.
@@peralta8013 to make Ahsoka the golden jedi exemplary of "what a jedi should be". Had her dressed like Gandalf the White at the end of rebels. Has her connected to 'the daughter' who represents the light side. It is shameful at this point.
@@peralta8013 "1. He turned Grievous, who used to be a Jedi-killing machine and a master strategist who Thrawn greatly respected into a cowardly, mustache-twirling villain who flees at the very sight of an ever so slight challenge. One who's easily outclassed by Ahsoka Tano, a literal padawan, and a group of Gungans. 2. He took Ventress, someone who used to be able to go toe to toe with Anakin, and turned her into someone who barely challenges Ahsoka, again, a literal padawan. 3. He took Barriss Offee, someone who was so compassionate that her lightsaber style and/or form was one of defense and not offense, where she would rather deflect any oncoming attacks back at the aggressor and not actively engage the aggressor. Someone who was so compassionate that she ended up specializing as and being a healer and she was turned into a terrorist who then has her best friend framed for the attack. 4. He took Count Dooku, someone who had plenty of nuance and was an idealist who saw the corruption of the republic long before the Jedi Council, which included but is not limited to Mace Windu and Yoda himself, and turned him into another saturday morning cartoon Villain. 5. He took the story of Anakin Skywalker and ruined it by having him already be knighted a mere 2 months into the Clone War, which was immediately after he has been seen/shown disobeying direct orders from Obi-Wan Kenobi and Mace Windu. As if that wasn't bad enough, he then had to give him his own padawan learner. If the Prequel Trilogy has anything to go by, it's that the council never saw Anakin as ready enough to be officially recognized as a master by themselves. 6. They took Luke and turned him into someone who runs away from the problems he caused, someone who doesn't answer his sister's call for help, someone who doesn't even get to mourn his best friend, and someone who loses to a girl who literally had the existence of the Jedi verified and/or confirmed to her mere days ago and who was never trained in both the ways of the force and lightsaber combat. 7. The Clones and the inhibitor chips aren't in line with both the Prequel Trilogy and the EU. 8. He took the expansive enormity that is the Clone Wars Multimedia Project and shrunk it down to a show that's basically an "Ahsoka and friends" show. Seriously, we'd have to have fate on our side to have an episode that doesn't focus on the "A-team". A show that treats the war the way a child would. A "war" where the "good guys" win every battle of the war while also losing the war." Slightly altered and copy/pasted comment of mine.
Also I find it hilarious when people say "Mace never trusted Anakin" Well he was right 😂 Like did you not see the movie? He kills off 99% of the jedi order but Mace is the bad one for being right not to trust Anakin?
But why did anakin become that way it was because mace and many of the jedi never trusted him and they ignored his fears of losing people the jedi created the monster they feared
@@jyotirani8187 did you watch the movie? He turns for Padme, that is clear. He says "I need him" and betrays Windu. Then says to Palpatine "I'll do anything, just help me save Padme". I don't think that if Windu trusted him that would change Anakin's mind. He did kill Jedi at the temple that did trust him, even little kids who looked up to him. He did it out of selfishness, Windu was correct
I understand Mace Windu's actions and can justify them. At the same time I recognize the impact he had on Anakin's fall. Mace Windu not arresting Palpatine and opting to kill him makes sense not just for the reasons you stated but also how that trial would go. Even if they could prove Palpatine is a Sith Lord it technically wasn't illegal, hella suspicious, but not illegal. Meanwhile 4 Jedi Masters assaulting or fighting the Chancellor is very illegal.
Actually, TROS implied that being a practicing adherent of the Sith religion was in fact, illegal. That's precisely why Palpatine made effort not to expose himself to the Senate as a Sith before and after the Republic's fall, and it's also why the Jedi moved to arrest him once Anakin informed Mace that Palpatine was the Sith lord they were looking for.
@@decepticonxhunter4850 TROS novelization explicitly stated that being a Sith Lord was not a crime. Granted, it was Palpatine who said that but he did play the recording of Mace Windu accusing Palpatine of being a Sith before the Senate, and none of them batted an eye (although that could've been because they thought Windu was lying or didn't know what a Sith was). Nonetheless, Palpatine being the Sith Lord also meant he orchestrated the Clone Wars and the assassination attempts on Padme (which Anakin conveniently forgot about in ROTS), which would constitute espionage and high treason.
Even if it was illegal the Courts could just not convict him as Mace said. "He has control of the Senate and the Courts." Honestly the only way to stop what Palps was doing was to kill him. But fuck I've been listening to the RoS novelization and I'm just like. "ANAKIN YOU DENSE MOTHER FUCKER! If one of your three most important people is trying to turn you against the other 2 most important people it means that 1 is the toxic one!"
Dave Filoni went out of his way to villainize this character, while at the same time adding no layers to him despite having SEVEN seasons of a whole TV show to do so!
Its always easy to compliment yourself. And the internet does not count because everyone on the web is unhinged and will snap if you push their buttons just a little too much. It has something to do with the fact that we cant see eachothers faces and therefore cant really empathize with eachother. So yeah, too much internet can make you a sociopath lol.
You're making a very good argument and I agree. It reminds me of another analysis video (that I of course can't find right now) which talks about how Anakin was in the end still the one person at fault for his fall to the dark side. Yes, there was Palpatines manipulation, yes, the Jedi Order had flaws that pushed him away from them, but in the end it was him who made the crucial mistakes and dedisions. He was ambitous. He wanted to become the strongest Jedi while also being in a relationship. It was not allowed and he knew it, but he didn't care and tried to make it work anyway and it didn't. It wasn't only outside factors (Palpatine and the Jedi Order) that made him fall to the dark side, but mostly his own character flaws that he knew he had but failed to take care off properly, because he thought he could handle them or didn't consider them actual flaws.
Great video and Thank you!! Mace is NOT a bad person he just loyal to a system with flaws but one he genuinely believes in can do good. The rots novel has so much that’s helps him grow with stuff like “mace windu too has secret love, the republic.” Shows his genuine care for the republic In reference to anakin “he is the arguably the most powerful Jedi alive and his powers are still getting stronger.” Was not arrogant as he concluded inferiority to Anakin even defending him to obi wan who was doubting Anakin ability for a solo mission When Anakin arrives into the office he does even question it he just says “Anakin now is your chance.” And “”This is your destiny.” Showing he really thought Anakin was/is the chosen one If only he had trained Anakin I feel like they would have got on well after they understood each other
I like mace and I do think some ppl hate him without understanding him, but he really can come off as unlikeable at certain points, and I would say he definitely didn’t help Anakins decent, but he didn’t cause it either I think it’s probably somewhere in the middle
the whole point of mace windu was that he was the representation of everything wrong with the jedi Thats why he and palpatine both say "He's too dangerous to be left alive" showing that the jedi aren't that much better than the sith Thats why he rushes in to face palpatine before telling the council, showing how the jedi don't think things through and aren't trusting each other Thats why he breaks the jedi code to kill palpatine, showing how the jedi are hypocritical Thats why his lightsaber is purple, its closer to red than all of the other jedi, showing how the jedi are getting closer to the dark side
@@minerpvpgaming2160 I’d agree on most besides, the Jedi going to the dark, mace tapped into the dark side, every now and then and was more of a grey Jedi like qui-gon ( sorry if I misspelled ) but I think that was the problem with the Jedi and the sith, they relied too much on one side of the force rather than just using the force both light and dark perfectly balanced, but that’s jus my opinion
@@JewishSeaslug7575 I agree but I think the light side was supposed to be good and the dark bad and qui gon only used the light In canon the light is used by clearing ur mind and listening to the will of the force while the dark is forcing ur own will on the force which is why it requires using and amplifying ur emotions which is where your will comes from All of the people that died became part of the force so the light is pretty much doing what the universe and all dead people want u to do while the dark is being selfish So I think it’s the opposite and that they failed because they were pushing their own will and acting more selfish instead of just using the light like qui gon did Qui gon’s whole thing was following the will of the force rather than institutions like the Jedi and I feel like he represented what the Jedi were supposed to be I was referring to how in the clone wars barris says that the Jedi are fighting for the dark side and are corrupt and how in ROTS mace is the representation of that
@@minerpvpgaming2160 I can get behind that, but I do believe that true balance is what they needed, the dark corrupted some but light blinded others, I think following the will of the force could be having true balance is using light and dark, not leaning on one, I’m pretty sure true balance is having both, I mean that’s why there’s never only sith walking around, and vice versa, you need both
Im glad im not the only one who noticed Mace saw Anakin as a friend (of sorts) in his final moments. When Mace was talking to Anakin and Palpatine saying stuff like "he's too dangerous to be kept alive!" Mace was talking to Anakin matter of factly, telling Anakin this information as respected Jedi equals. He wasnt saying it to spite or anger Anakin. He was just talking to Anakin in a desperate and extreme situation, like how a Jedi would talk to his Jedi partner, or padawan, when facing a dangerous opponent together. Mace's attitude in this scene is greatly misunderstood. Fantastic video!
Mace’s trusted in Anakin after Shatterpoint. And I am sure part of the reason people don’t like Mace is because of TCW in the old legends stuff pre TCW Mace was definitely a more sympathetic character. The second strongest Jedi the guy who could have ended the war before it started. Also read the Novelization of RotS Mace is fighting not for himself or the Jedi order but for the Republic for normal people to live in peace. That’s the only reason he had to power to match Palps. He normally doesn’t have that power.
Honestly the arc for Windu is such an interesting element of episode 3 and Sam Jackson is so cool that I wish we got more Mace Windu content in the prequels, even though it's part of the story it's too bad his character is dead, would've been interesting to see what Mace Windu would've been up to after Episode III
I just think he is a Republic jedi in extreme way and that make him arrogant like we see after the Ahsoka trial and dosen't apologize because he thinks all was a test of the force or even when he catch up with Boba and say "Well you are going to forgive me" he does everything for the Republic instead of follow the will of the force even in the novel of revenge of the Sith(no really canon now but is interesting) there is a quote that say "Mace windu had a secret lover and that was the Republic". I dont hate Mace he is a cool jedi but he is also has problems.
Yeah it’s understandable why fans feel that way. I just wanted to stress why Mace not trusting Anakin wasn’t because he just didn’t like him. Mace said that because Anakin didn’t want to spy on the chancellor despite Palpatine’s suspicious behavior. Anakin’s close relationship with Palpatine was now a potential threat to the jedi order. Mace’s feelings are understandable imo
It's not really fair when ppl still can't be bothered to watch the deleted scene where that statement is put into its proper context, even though it's existence is common knowledge by now. Ppl just want to continuing pretending that Mace never said that so they can continue to argue that Mace hated Anakin.
I didn’t have a problem with Mace until the whole expelling Ahsoka story, and how he acted in that story, particularly including the way he spoke after her innocence is proven, basically ignoring the fact that they got it SO wrong. To top it, the way he was with Ahsoka after she captured Maul, snarkily calling her ‘citizen’ and refusing to tell her anything due to his own pride. These flaws are present across most of the council, but particularly in him. I was on team Windu before this though, when half of the fandom already hated him
its crazy that im getting recommended this video lol. cause i just had this same argument with a co worker just 2 days ago. I had to defend my boi mace against 2 co workers xD
Yes Anakin was manipulated. But ultimately he is also to blame for his actions. He made a decision to kill everyone to save Padme, which is selfish. Mace was kinda mean to Anakin. Yet people always victimise Anakin and blame Mace for everything. In the end Anakin screams "I need him!". So I'm pretty sure that even if Mace was nicer to Anakin, then everything would play out the same cuz Anakin was only thinking about saving Padme anyway
This video was 100% needed. Mace Windu has had 100% good intentions plus great discipline. Mace had the potential darkness that Anakin and Dooku had. But he controlled his and channelled it for good, whereas Dooku and Anakin bent the knee like DOGS to Sidious. How Mace Windu is seen as worse than mass murderers Dooku and Anakin is shocking for me. Until you realise that many fans try to both sides the jedi and the sith, want to be sith themselves and pretend that the Sith code doesn't promote evil inherently. Then use like 3 faux-sith to pretend that you can be a "good sith".
Yes and fans have also tried to blow up the "Gray Jedi" concept as being canon. But we have never seen Gray Jedi in anything. Qui-Gon and Ahsoka are considered to be Gray Jedi but they're not, they're still light-side Force wielders that focused on serving the light side of the Force over Republic politics. George Lucas says good guys use blue and green, bad guys use red lightsabers. It's the fans that try to both sides Star Wars.
the whole point of mace windu was that he was the representation of everything wrong with the jedi Thats why he and palpatine both say "He's too dangerous to be left alive" showing that the jedi aren't that much better than the sith Thats why he rushes in to face palpatine before telling the council, showing how the jedi don't think things through and aren't trusting each other Thats why he breaks the jedi code to kill palpatine, showing how the jedi are hypocritical Thats why his lightsaber is purple, its closer to red than all of the other jedi, showing how the jedi are getting closer to the dark side Hes not worse than dooku or vader but he is worse than the other jedi
@@minerpvpgaming2160 No he isn't you clown. Mace is an example of a GREAT jedi. Sidious was too dangerous to be left alive because they were literally incapable of taking him alive. He was also in control of the courts and the Republic army and had the approval ratings of the Republic. Star wars fans just stay spouting bullshit.
@@tahjsimon9058 maybe that’s true, but the intention of the movie was for mace to be seen as the corruption of the Jedi That’s why he and palpatine (the main villain) say the exact same sentence in a similar context to anakin which shows him that palpatine was right when he said that the sith and Jedi are similar in almost every way which leads to his turn
@@minerpvpgaming2160 where are you getting that from? The movies show Mace Windu as a wise, stern yet loving and caring leader of the jedi. Especially when you take into account the novelization of the movies. Mace Windu LOVES the Republic, he was worried about Anakin getting swallowed by the dark side and so told him to stay despite the prophecy all but guaranteeing that he would die if he did. Mace Windu took the risk because he knew that Anakin wasn't ready. Mace Windu heavily regretted not taking out Dooku on a mutual fatal strike so that the war and plot against the jedi would have ended. He was not going to make that mistake with Sidious. Mace Windu intended to take Sidious alive until he proved with his IMMENSE force lightning that even unarmed he is a monster. In the novelisation it says that Windu's blade was getting bent back. The same lightning that EASILY knocked Yoda's lightsaber out of his hand. There is literally nobody except Windu who could hold off that lightning. The jedi are not robots, the code doesn't exist without context and application. But the selflessness remains, Windu realising that there was no way of capturing Sidious alive had to weigh between running away like Yoda or killing him. Now recall the horror that occurred after Windu's death and after Yoda had to flee. That is what Windu was going to stop, it is the classic kill Hitler before WW2 concept. Anakin already came and Sidious was sinking his claws into him so in a way it would have saved Anakin from becoming Vader as well.
I'd like to add that in th books, Mace and Anakin are very alike when it comes to the people they love, With the former going to and almost risking the fall of Haruun kal just to save Depa Belaba. The major difference between the two is that Mace knew when to let go.
I liked Windu ever since the Clone Wars 03, he reminded me of Samurai Jack when he took down that army of droids. The way he talked to Ahsoka after the trial, that's when I said "F Mace Windu". I agree with how he was stern with Anakin and R2D2, Ahsoka was where I drew the line. Also, add the hypocrisy of the Council, and Windu bringing the B team to kill Darth Sidious.
Ngl “B-Team” made me laugh. To be fair tho, I don’t think there was anyone else available that would’ve stood a better chance against Palpatine. But I understand your point. :)
Wile I view mace did not hate Anakin or disliked him, but he did tell Anakin to his face that he did not have trust him in a way before he said Anakin earned his trust, basically telling him in the past the Jedi order did not trust him for a while, and Anakin mentally said he knew the order did not respect him(well he thinks for that part.) But never that they did not trust him. But mostly your right in my opinion, but Mace Windu did mess up a few ways on his own there, but Mace Windu mostly is a good man who did his best for the galaxy.
I remember back in like 2016, people loved mace windu alot more, then in like the 2020s his and even yodas portrayal shifted to a much more negative light in the fanbase... i have noticed star wars commentary youtube channels and threads on reddit change their opinions on them at some point maybe 2019... there where youtube titles going "why mace windu represents the worst aspects of the jedi" and stuff like that.
Hard agree with the video and additionally, I think one of the most absurd arguments regarding Mace Windu thus far has been the death of Jango Fett. News flash, it was a warzone and Jango threw himself into that conflict with the intent to kill any and all enemies he came across. Mace had absolutely no reason to try and take him prisoner when there’s so much going on as it is.
You've opened my eyes. I didn't hate Mace Windu as much as other people do, but I now understand him much better than I used to! I still think he's made some wrong choices, like killing Jango in front of his son, but that's still a pretty hard choice to make
Ayo! Let's go! I've been saying this. Mace is very much like Anakin. He has comics and books where he tries to save the "little guy" and was upset when Beaurcracy got in in the way. The problem is he would defer to Yoda. Mace trusted Anakin. He believed Anakin was the chosen one. In a deleted scene, Mace gave Obi-Wan advice on trusting Anakin and his instincts. And in RoTS he trusted Anakins intel and could feel conflict in Anakin about Palpatine, so telling him to stay behind is a good choice.
I don’t think Anakin ever had a list for power. This just doesn’t fit his character and who he was. On mortis he denies the Father’s offer to become a god like figure, he really only falls because of his attachments to Padme. That being said, Mace Windu was justified in his decisions. He didn’t want Anakin on the as a master because he was unstable, he had too much emotion. But his input was still important so he was offered a seat on the council.
He definitely didn't crave power before revenge of the Sith, and his motive was saving padme. But no matter how good your intentions are at the start, once your so deep in the dark side you love the power it gives you. That's why he didn't just leave with padme to naboo when she tried convincing him to on mustafar
4:06 Did you mean in Revenge of The Sith where Anakin wasn't really Anakin anymore, or Attack of The Clones where he was in a blind, uncontrollable rage and attacked anything and everything that moved?
People forget that Jedi during this era are SUPPOSED to be level-headed and detached. It’s the whole point of their ideology to NOT be too emotional. I think a large part of the misunderstanding is also the fact that Mace is neither grandfatherly like Yoda, nor is he witty like Obi-Wan etc. He is a particularly stern and impolite individual, traits that to many people in this day and age and that many don’t really know how to handle anymore irl.
I Got a love hate relationship. I hate the jedi's hypocracy and when mace speaks cause of his bluntness he spouts alot of it the loudest when the conversation arises leading me to hate him the most especially as it drives his sense of responsibility But then i also think he is pretty forward and cool and sensible but at the same time understand anakin is arrogant but also fails to realise he is too arrogant to fully understand anakin or the code he follows and the council he shadows
People definitely just want someone to blame for Anakins choices. No matter what, he himself chose the dark side in that moment and he has no one to blame but himself
I think mace is great but in the end it was Mace Windu that helped Palpatine take that last big step to turn Anakin to the dark side. Mace Windu represented the ideal Jedi at the time and when Anakin saw Mace Windu about to kill an unarmed prisoner and was about to break the Jedi code he snapped, which led of course to his death by Palpatine
In addition to that I honestly cant see Yoda running the Jedi temple so i imagine that all the bs that comes up in a monastic spiritual Order of space Wizards that can sometines see possible futures was Mace Windu's problem. And after dealing with whatever nonsense comes up he also has to deal with an active galaxy Spaning war, the hunt for the Sith lord, a chancelor who seams to get more power every other week and then at the end of the day Anakin Skywalker struts through the temple and all but demands to be made a Jedi Master. (Ok i may be exaggerating a bit but i think i got my point across). So i think we could excuse him being a bit short tempert and unwilling to entertain some things.
I liked mace windu and how cool he was, he was very powerful and he was wise. I always get sad before anakin betrays him to save Palpatine. Mace was a good jedi trying to do the right thing and stop the sith.
This makes sense! Great video but I do have one question: If Anakin has simply just been patient and controlled his emotions, would Mace have likely granted him the rank of master?
Anakin wasn't okay with killing younglings. The canonical comic Star Wars: Darth Vader #7 confirms the younglings' deaths caused Anakin grief, self-loathing, hatred and pain, fueling his descent even further into the dark side. He focused on his anger to try and drown out his conscience but it didn't completely work which is why we see him crying on Mustafar. He was doing all of this with the belief that he was going to save Padme and when he didn't, it left him broken, causing him to basically lose all hope that he could be redeemed and just doubled down on serving Palpatine no matter how much he loathed him
Well said. I always loved Mace but unfortunately all the Star Wars content creators I watch put a lot of the blame on mace windu for what happened with anakin and always calling him out as a big meanie and an arrogant prick. Some of their stuff I’ll admit rubbed onto me and I was kind of buying it. But I always knew that I liked him for a reason and you confirmed it. He still followed what the Jedi council said a little too much and in part did whatever the senate wanted so I still do think part of the Jedi’s destruction can be blamed on him but he should not be blamed for anakins downfall
Aside from Rex and Obi-Wan, Anakin is my favourite character because he exists to lay the foundation of star wars as much of the world knows it, sure there's been so many books released around the original trilogy, and building up before in the age of the old republic But i'm just biased towards liking the prequels because it's what I grew up with, so projection is on the money But I didn't really Hate Mace, I did see several other videos that had the idea he hated Anakin. Growing up you learn to not see the world in just black and white but in shades of grey, there's more to the picture than just hating or loving there's what's in between, I'm sure Mace had some modicum of respect for what Anakin represented, even during the clone wars he seemed to admire his ambition and creativity. But deep down he didn't fully trust him because of his dark history. That's kind of the takeaway I have that he wanted what was best for the jedi order but hesitated when he told himself he wasn't going to Also he's played by one of the most captivating actors of our age his purple lightsaber is cool as hell
Mace Windu was right about a lot of things, not everything though as he still subject to the dogmatic views commonplace among many Jedi at the time. He was right that Anakin wasn't ready to be a master yet and that his arrogance, impatience and emotional issues were concerning. There are things he could have handled a bit better, but he wasn't entirely wrong.
I never understood why people hate Mace. I myself don't really *like* him persay, but that's because I didn't know him as well as say.. Anakin, Obi-Wan, Yoda, yada yada. But I never hated him, because he was literally just a dude trying to do his job and keep order during a time when order was most necessary. He's smart, and has the balls to be *able* to tell someone like Anakin, who at the time was still considered a padawan iirc, that he can't be a Jedi Master just because he might be the chosen one. TL;DR I don't get why people hate Mace, he's just a dude doing what needs to be done.
Mace Windu was a true jedi master second best to Yoda and can eszyle keep up with Darth Sidious who was a master sith lord Anakin was a huge disappointment and should never became a jedi
I agree that Mace didn't hate Anakin per se, nor did he directly send him to the dark side, but he did have an element of arrogance and conceitedness which (especially with Ahsoka's trial) made his character unlikeable and contributed to the fall of Skywalker. I.e. most of the Jedi council (highly likely including Mace) voted to have her expelled completely (before having even entered court), then when found to be innocent, he never apologised to her like the others, only saying the whole thing was 'your great trial' and 'the Force works in mysterious ways'. Whether or not Ahsoka had already made her decision (Edit: to leave) or the effect of his response on it, he still tried to excuse his/the Council's/the Order's unjust treatment of her; although I agree that the Order should have temporarily suspended her rank (perhaps even her Padawan status) expelling her completely belies a lack of respect for someone who trusted the Order implicitly. If you ask me, the expulsion was a political move staged to limit the Jedi Order's culpability in the fallout from the Temple bombing, as an 'active' Jedi being convicted would have been so much worse for their public image, especially as at this point the opinions of the general populace were turning against the Jedi. Ahsoka's treatment both left Anakin unable to trust the Order/Council, and without someone close he trusted- nudging him closer to Palpatine. The powerlessness he felt in the trial and in his visions of Padme dying left him to crave the power Palpatine offered. I don't dislike Mace for his personality, because his worse aspects reflect what the Jedi were fast becoming: a bureaucratic branch of government too concerned with the Republic's ambitions (i.e. suddenly becoming military leaders despite a lack of training and objection to participation in war), and the Order's own traditions, formality, and public image to remember what it meant to be a Jedi- Yoda knew it was happening, and Ahsoka and Anakin both left the Order in some fashion as a result as well. Luke Skywalker's New Jedi Order in Legends really took this message in- allowing entrants at any age, marriage and having children- and did defend their members from public prosecution (e.g. Fate of the Jedi series).
Yes Dang it! I forgot to mention the Ahsoka trial but 100% yes. you explained it well. Mace voting to expel Ahsoka was definitely politically motivated and was a example of him only thinking about what's best for the image of the jedi order instead of the people within it. They essentially abandoned Ahsoka when she needed their support the most. I assumed that Mace was just to prideful/arrogant to admit he was wrong which is why he never gave a direct apology to Ahsoka. His pride is definitely a character flaw but even in this instance it's still understandable why he chose to vote Ahsoka out. Keeping her would fuel even more anti-jedi sentiment among the public/senate essentially making it seem like the jedi are above the law. I understand why people don't like Mace's decision (I didn't like it either) but even in this instance, his reasoning is understandable and not out of malice against Ahsoka personally. It's still consistent with his character.
@@spacewizrd you also forgot to mention the Jedi Council faked Obi-Wan's death the older one can go into stealth Mission and lied about that to Anakin I found out the Jedi Council lie to him and Mace Windu knew about this plan and never ever spoke out against it incident also made of not trust the Jedi
no, the whole point of mace windu was that he was the representation of everything wrong with the jedi Thats why he and palpatine both say "He's too dangerous to be left alive" showing that the jedi aren't that much better than the sith Thats why he rushes in to face palpatine before telling the council, showing how the jedi don't think things through and aren't trusting each other Thats why he breaks the jedi code to kill palpatine, showing how the jedi are hypocritical Thats why his lightsaber is purple, its closer to red than all of the other jedi, showing how the jedi are getting closer to the dark side
It’s purple because Samuel L Jackson liked purple. As for sidious, he had just proven he was too dangerous to be kept alive by wiping out several jedi masters. Not knights, *masters* and even having a nearly even fight against Mace himself. Sidious had all the political power and all the personal power to escape. And he’d committed so many awful acts executing him was well deserved. Also, “aren’t that much better” are you delerious? You think killing a dude who was leading both sides of a war resulting in countless deaths is equivalent to causing countless deaths, torture, and convincing people to join you and killing infants?
@@firstnamelastname9237 that influenced his character in episode 3 They could have cut of his arms and dealt with it he corruption legally I’m not saying that, I’m saying that anakin started to believe that after palpatine told him that they are the same in almost every way and when palpatine and mace say the same thing in the same context even though it’s something that goes against the Jedi code And mace is the second highest ranking Jedi which means he and the council probably could have made amendments to the code instead of just breaking it
@@minerpvpgaming2160 Thing is, that would only have cemented some idea of Jedi cruelty. If he could play on being terrible scarred by his own doing he could ABSOLUTELY play being dismembered as some horrific scene. I’m So no, it wouldn’t have worked. And that’s assuming Anakin wouldn’t have stopped Mace anyway. Also, even attempting such a thing might actually give sidious an opening to kill him. Any slip up and mace could die. He cannot trust anakin to help restrain sidious, and he can’t reliably do it himself. There really was little choice. Anakin’s mental issues and ability to be manipulated is not on Mace Windu. That’s on Anakin and on Palpatine. The code is older than even most hutts and likely many governments. It wouldn’t be easy to change. Additionally, he obviously could not do such a thing in the moment. So it’s irrelevant. Besides, Anakin was regularly willing to ignore the code. He did it constantly. So even if it was against the code, it doesn’t change much.
I personally do not think that Mace was rude to Anakin because he was like a parent to him or because he was just a jerk. Instead, i think he was jealous. He was 100% sure he was the chosen one. He stood out from the rest of the jedi in literally every way: he had incredible power in the Force, only second to Yoda, he had the unique ability to see shatter points that almost nobody else had, he created his own unique fighting style and became the second after Yoda duellist in the order, he had the highest after Yoda position in the council, even his lightsaber had unique color and was made form luxurious material. He was outstanding in every imaginable way but when a random boy with simply too many midichlorians appeared to steal his destiny he saw him as a rival. That's why he was always against Anakin, because Anakin's achievements could overshadow his own. That's why he prohibited Anakin to assist in Palpatine's arrest and also why he wanted to kill Palpatine right then and there - because he still believed that HE was the chosen one and HE must do it. Mace: I don't think the boy can handle it. I don't trust him. Obi Wan: with all due respect, Master, is he not the chosen one? Is he not to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the force? Mace: so prophecy says (implying that he doesn't agree) Yoda: a prophecy that misread could have been Mace: nods in approval
I honestly have mixed feelings about Mace Windu (I love Samuel L. Jackson, and he did a good job playing Mace Windu). I don't hate him, but he is not an angel, either. I do have respect for Windu, though. Windu is one of my dad's favorite characters. Like Obi-Wan Kenobi, Windu has some of the best/meme-able quotes. He is fun to play as in video games/have on your team (I play Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes, LEGO Star Wars Games, etc...). Mace has a great/unique Lightsaber, too (Samuel L. Jackson wanted to have a purple Lightsaber)! I do have to say I like his Lightsaber Fighting Style, too! Ki- Adi-Mundi is someone I do not like, though. I have read and watched videos on him. I did not like what I read/saw him doing. My respect for Mundi is very low.
I've always been a Mace windu fan. He's the perfect Jedi. He knew & faced & controlled his inner darkness. Yoda wasn't even aware of his inner darkness ( clone wars season 6). Anakin was powerful but NOT MATURE, something that's required as a Jedi
I like Mace, but was under the impression he did dislike Anakins arrogance and emotion, even with moderate knowledge of Canon. He reminds me of Darth Mar in the way that they use the 'dark' side for good, Mar genuinely, and Windu reversing their own negativity. The dudes a noble dark Jedi. The only reason he's a Jedi is the same reason he's a master. Self control
Honestly man, this is a great video. i’m a big fan of Anakin Skywalker and he’s honestly my favorite character in all of Star Wars but I have to agree. (And this is kind of long I’m sorry but please read this) To say that mace Windu hates Anakin is false, however if one wanted to make the argument that he didn’t trust him while necessarily not despising him, I would accept that. However, Mace actually has a lot of reasons to distrust Anakin that I fully understand.
There is this saying that “ it takes a village to raise a child“ and if any blame was to be placed on Anakin‘s fall to the Dark side, part of that blame should go to the entirety of the council, not just Mace.I will acknowledge that they do lie to him to his face (example being the Obi-Wan undercover arc) and The issues surrounding Ahsoka regarding her arc where she was on trial, basically just giving her up for political convenience and at the time The evidence against her was overwhelming, so I get it. But back on Mace, looking from his perspective this is what I see:
You are the leader of the Jedi order. In your title you are literally called Master Of The Order. essentially you are this organizations father. Every Jedi in the temple is your responsibility, including this emotionally unstable, erratic, and increasingly violent Jedi Who has no regard for rules and the Jedi code except when it suits him. As the days of war go on, you see how unstable he is becoming and how close he is becoming with Chancellor Palpatine which really doesn’t help.
Even though Anakin is powerful, he does not have the discipline and patience that comes along with being a master yet. Just because you kill Dooku and rescue the chancellor doesn’t mean you get a seat on the council. Anakin constantly pines for more Power and privileges and that speaks volumes as to why Mace is so strict with him. This is not Jedi behavior and if Anakin can’t see that, that’s his problem. If you clearly see someone who is acting out of pocket, The last thing you would do is give them a promotion when they haven’t earned it and they display to you on multiple different occasions as to why you don’t have the position.
Granted they should’ve got this dude a therapist because he was not well, but in the end Anakin‘s choices were all his own. No one in the Jedi council, especially not Mace, turned him to the dark side. No one forced him to kill children, no one forced him to slaughter everyone in the temple. No one forced him to choke out his pregnant wife and fight Obi Wan before getting cut up and burned. Just because you don’t have the support structure you need and are subsequently pushed right into the arms of your manipulator, it doesn’t give you a free pass to do a bunch heinous shit. ( Also Azula from ATLA is a good example of this) Every time I watch Anakin burn on Mustafar, there is always this feeling of “ you deserve this for all of the horrible things that you’ve done. You slaughtered 2 GROUPS OF INNOCENT CHILDREN who looked to you for help and thats only what we’ve seen, there could’ve been more. You have no one to blame but yourself”.
Again, The boy is my favorite character but Mace is my second and can’t stand when people try to put blame on Mace Windu for not “being nice to him” or “not showing him compassion like Obi Wan or Ahsoka“ Real talk, some people need tough love. These two are like his brother and sister, while Mace is SUPPOSED to act like his father and not turn a blind eye when he acts out of line.
But yeah those are my thoughts and again, great video!
Yo man this is beautiful. Seriously you really summed up what I was trying to say perfectly! (Actually your comment is way better than my rambling vid haha.) but I completely agree and love this reply. I had no idea this vid would get so much traction. I wish I put more effort to organize my thoughts better because I forgot to mention a lot of stuff like the Ashoka trial, Boba Fett, Zillo Beast etc. I might make a part 2 one day but for now seriously thank you so much! I’m going to pin this. :)
Just like you said,Mace acted like a father: Strict,but with the best of intentions on heart.I like to think that he may not like Anakin,but he still respected him as a warrior
The only way that mace truly contributed to Anakins choice was when he said the exact same thing palpatine, which Anakin had just learned was a sith, said. He didn’t understand the dark side, but was given a promise by palpatine, and once Mace said that Palpatine was too dangerous to be left alive, it pretty much solidified the concept that the sith and Jedi were just different perspectives, and that the sith actually cared about the lives of others and the Jedi didn’t, even if it wasn’t true.
Edit: But had Anakin listened and stayed in the temple, that wouldn’t have happened.
You basically explained all criminals ever and what is often accurate fatherless behavior mace windu sounded like a angry landlord half the time.
Perfectly said. I love that part where you mentioned obi wan, ahsoka, and mace. Obi wan is like his big brother, ahsoka is like his little sister, but mace is like his father. I fully believe if Mace trained anakin, which he definitely should’ve instead of obi wan who was still way too inexperienced, he would’ve succeeded in preventing him from going to the dark side
People's hatred towards Mace Windu is tied in with the fanbase's misunderstanding of the Jedi. Mace did not hate Anakin. Fans portray Mace as this cold-blooded killer when that couldn't be further from the truth. Like we saw in Tales of the Jedi Mace was against killing. The only person Mace wanted to kill was Palpatine and that's because Palpatine controlled the courts. So no justice could be served because the system had become corrupt.
Well, he brutally killed Jango Fett in front of his son.
@@Joao-ur7ey To be fair, Jango entered the arena to kill Mace. Mace also didn't know that Jango had a son.
Mace totally could've avoided killing that guard in tales of the jedi if he wanted to
@@eatingpancakesrightnow2786 Nah, Mace deflected the first shot away and then the second one was a moment of self-defense. The episode shows Mace avoiding killing so it's unlikely he would have done that on purpose. Plus the guard was shooting his blaster when Mace had no intention of fighting.
@@matthewk4912 I don’t think Mace is a murder… but killing the guard was completely on purpose with shot 2… otherwise we just have to look at him like “oopsie teehee”. Mace is too skilled to have the deaths he causes be unintentional.
Mace windu treated anakin like a adult while the other jedi treated him like a child
The projection you speak of applies also towards the fans' views on the Jedi. Fans say the Jedi were emotionless robots that didn't care about anyone about themselves.
But we see the Jedi forming deep bonds with their masters, apprentices, fellow Jedi, the clones, and the people they protect across the galaxy. Their philosophy, though, is to not get too attached because that can cloud their judgement and put them at risk to making bad decisions. So the Jedi strive to focus on the greater good over personal feelings. They didn't forbid or look down on anyone from forming attachments or getting married, as long as they did it outside of the Jedi Order. This is like real life, like government and protector positions have strict requirements if you want to be in them.
Yeah cuz they know nobody can really seperate home life from their professional life.
@Shan Ming Yes exactly, because they overlap with each other. Also, with the Jedi it wasn't really a job, it was more a way of life.
@@matthewk4912 yep and it caused their downfall.
And that’s exactly why people don’t understand the Jedi. The ideals of selflessness and the greater good are lost on people.
the whole point of mace windu was that he was the representation of everything wrong with the jedi
Thats why he and palpatine both say "He's too dangerous to be left alive" showing that the jedi aren't that much better than the sith
Thats why he rushes in to face palpatine before telling the council, showing how the jedi don't think things through and aren't trusting each other
Thats why he breaks the jedi code to kill palpatine, showing how the jedi are hypocritical
Thats why his lightsaber is purple, its closer to red than all of the other jedi, showing how the jedi are getting closer to the dark side
One reason I've always thought as to why people didn't like Windu is because he's the one who told Anakin that he was allowed on the council but not given the rank of Master, when the decision had to have been agreed upon by the majority or entirety of the council, not just Mace.
Yeah I agree, I’m sure it was a collective decision by the council yet Mace seems to catch most of the criticism as if it was solely his decision.
@@spacewizrd exactly.
Not to mention that making Anakin a Master would've meant allowing the Chancellor to run the Council, since he appointed Anakin a seat on the Council.
@@sciencesociety2919 And the fact that there was no way that Anakin could be a Master. He was literally a nut case.
Even Obi Wan didn't think Anakin was ready yet, though he did say to Anakin that he shouldn't overlook the honor he had been granted by getting a seat on the council even if it was under unusual circumstances. Obi Wan seemed to think that Anakin was close to being ready, but that he still had to get over a few hurdles to do so, and if Anakin didn't turn to the dark side he would have been correct.
The streets needed this one, Mace called it from the start.
Also the fact that people think Mace is just plain cold is 100% wrong. He shows so much care and love and respect for his fellow Jedi friends like Kenobi, Yoda, and his own padawan Depa and also the clones. He shows genuine sadness for when he says Even Piell will be missed after dying at the Citadel rescue. Even in the part where he’s kind of an a-hole to boba saying he’ll have to forgive him, you can tell he’s genuinely and actively listening to boba when confronted by him as he kneels down to eye level with him. Also he was able to tolerate jar-jar for a whole mission, more than most could ever do
the whole point of mace windu was that he was the representation of everything wrong with the jedi
Thats why he and palpatine both say "He's too dangerous to be left alive" showing that the jedi aren't that much better than the sith
Thats why he rushes in to face palpatine before telling the council, showing how the jedi don't think things through and aren't trusting each other
Thats why he breaks the jedi code to kill palpatine, showing how the jedi are hypocritical
Thats why his lightsaber is purple, its closer to red than all of the other jedi, showing how the jedi are getting closer to the dark side
@@minerpvpgaming2160 your still misunderstanding him, in the rots novel yoda already had approved Mace going to confront Palpatine. The only thing that changed is now Mace knew he HAD to be arrested. The council had already planned to confront Palpatine.
@@vfk_26 the novel is secondary to the movie
And even if that’s the case, both yoda and mace should have regrouped before attacking palpatine
@@minerpvpgaming2160 sure the jedi are not the best but siths are a thousand times worse than jedis
@@minerpvpgaming2160Yes, however, Palpatine was REALLY dangereous to be kept alive. He had full control of the senate, he was a literal sith lord, you cant just friendly arrest that guy. Well, you know what happened next. Thousands of Jedi were brutally assassinated, and for generations the galaxy suffered under Palpatine's command
I think its mostly cause Dave Filoni making Mace look bad as often as possible. For instance with the whole Ahsoka leaving the Jedi Order where Mace is first in line to just hand over Ahsoka to Palpatine. However, we know Mace is super Anti Palpatine and hates the Senate interfering in Jedi Business. So it makes no sense for him to be first in line to just do whatever Palpatine wants because he is afraid of the PR Hit or whatever.
Completely agree, you ignore TCW and Mace is a much better character.
Filoni likes to make him look foolish like with that droids scene in totj
Mace actually respected Palpatine once because he thought that Palpatine was the leader who could save the republic, but over the clone wars he sees Palpatine slowly amassing power and it becomes revealed that Dooku's statement about how the sith lord controlled the senate became true.
@@based4560At this point of the war (little over halfway iirc), Mace does not trust the Senate anymore. It’s complete character assanation to have Mace act like this. One of the main points of his character is that he doesn’t care what the public thinks if he feels he’s doing the right thing.
@@vfk_26 that's why I said he respected palpatine at the beginning of the clone wars, not during the middle of it
The dudes name is literally mace. Of course he's going to be blunt.
Mace Windu is a fucking chad and is one of my favourite Jedi. From what I've heard the lore reason for his saber and ship being purple is because his fighting style is far more aggressive and method of dealing with things is far more action orientated, and thus a middle ground between light and dark. And besides, I don't remember Anakin ever being striped of his lightsaber in a droid caused dust storm and using only his fists and the force to destroy an army of super battle droids after his clone forces were wiped out
Before watching I 100% have thought the same for years.Mace is at worst kind of rude to Anakin.He never showed any malice towards him.I plan to make a different video about why I don’t think mace is a bad guy on my Star Wars channel but our boy mace needs some more respect asap !
Edit amazing video VERY high quality content for a smaller channel 100% hit the nail on the head with discussing mace’s character
Nice, I completely agree! Is your channel Star Wars Danger? I just subbed and I'm looking forward to seeing it!
@@spacewizrd yes it is and thank you my friend !I only post on weekends usually cause of school so it will take a while but I’ll try to make it as soon as I can
@@11bluekitkats right Sam jackson need our help now
I stand on this forever. "The people who think Mace Windu hated Anikan have never had a black father figure in their lives."
the whole point of mace windu was that he was the representation of everything wrong with the jedi
Thats why he and palpatine both say "He's too dangerous to be left alive" showing that the jedi aren't that much better than the sith
Thats why he rushes in to face palpatine before telling the council, showing how the jedi don't think things through and aren't trusting each other
Thats why he breaks the jedi code to kill palpatine, showing how the jedi are hypocritical
Thats why his lightsaber is purple, its closer to red than all of the other jedi, showing how the jedi are getting closer to the dark side
@@minerpvpgaming2160 1 - true
2 - actually Mace did contact Yoda, but the scene was cut from movie and instead incorporated into novel. Tons of stuff was trimmed out in post production and it's one of the scenes, happened just before Anakin reveals identity of Sidious. Overall Jedi had a plan. After Kenobi kills Grievous, they would go to Palpatine and gauge his reaction, if he would lay down his emergency powers. Yoda did warn that Sidious was still out there somewhere and they would have to anticipate his reaction. Windu agreed and took with him 3 best Jedi he could find on Coruscant. All Jedi Masters with plenty of war experience, not some pushovers (they still died in few seconds). Yoda finally gave the OK.
3 - tied to previous point, Jedi got the OK from Yoda to march into office of chancellor and persuade him by looking menacing to lay down his powers, if not they would attempt a coup. News from Anakin didn't change the plan at all, as they were already going anyway. Only difference is that they knew they were going to meet a Sith Lord. With that said, he also accumulated full control of senate and courts, at this point Jedi were really out of options because they were simply too late and wake up call happened precisely when Palpatine wanted, to force them into morally compromised situation. Not too long ago they also sanctioned mission to assasinate Dooku with disastrous results, so attempting coup wasn't too far away in my book.
4- it's only because Sammy L Jackson wanted purple :P
They're emotional just like Anakin
and?
This is such an absurd take.
About time someone said this. Lol. The one thing the Kenobi show did right was Vader saying Obi-wan didn't kill Anakin. The reason people project onto him is because if Mace and Palpatine are responsible for all of Anakin's crimes, then that means that they can blame all their awful behaviour on other people too. I saw the same thing happen when Bakugo apologised to Deku in My Hero Academia. Everyone who defended Bakugo's bullying had a big freak out when they realised that the point of his character was redemption and not approval. And that they could no longer justify their own attitudes.
The canon does a poor job at characterisation him (Filioni). In the EU he was more complex and nuanced.
I wanna give Mace Windu a big hug
I feel like the big problem is that anakins motivation has been reinterpreted as way more altruistic than it actually was in the movies.
Yeah a lot of yonger fans who grey up watching TCW have a very different idea of Anakin. That interpretation of Anakin was very different from what we saw in the movies and if that's your inital preception of the character, it would make sense to feel that way.
@@jupiterapollo4985certainly, i never really felt that he needed any changing but my home was turned into a junkyard by a natural disaster and i played in the junk and built stuff in it as well as having anger management problems at the time i viewed the movies so maybe i was just the perfect storm to find him compelling ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I also think the original version gelled better with the themes of the movies but its buddhism for 12 year olds so i dont think that tragically altruistic anakin is the end of the world.
Mace reminds me of Lucas from Stranger Things. Out of the trio of boys looking for their friend, he is the most realistic of the group.
Both Mike and Dustin were quick to accept the fantasy of Eleven's powers, while he saw it as a waste of time. This eventually lead to a falling out because he also had suspicious feelings that Eleven had something to do with the disappearance of their friend. And he was half right.
When he was on his own, he found some clues and went back to the group; and thus slowly accepted Eleven as a friend.
Mace was a true Jedi and a frim believer in his cause. But he wasn't going to let fantasy words affect how he treats a padawan who "still has spots." Even when Anakin told him the truth about Palpatine, he still put him in his place because he wanted to be safe. Unfortunately for everyone, Anakin shares the fate of most child stars in reality; that they get used to the praise of their fame and potential that they grow up believing that they are to achieve so much with less time and effort as anyone else. Anakin always meant well; but he is hot headed, impatient, emotionally immature. He is young, and the only Jedi he ever seemed to respect was Yoda and of course Obi-wan.
So Mace is like the strict teacher who is tough because he has to be taken seriously, but wants the best for all of his allies. From the start, he took Anakin's supposed "Christ-like" upbringing with a grain of salt.
I do not believe it was him that ultimately lead Anakin to the Dark side, but it was too much emotional weight that Anakin was too frustrated to carry.
Mace ultimately decided to break out the norm of the Jedi order to kill Palpatine because he realized how the Senator had been manipulating everyone. Everyone had been following the rules, making them predictable. He had the perfect opportunity to kill him, but Unlimited Power got the better of him.
Keep in mind he still tried to protect Anakin much like how Snape protected the kids from the werewolf; despite their sour relationship. Priorities are kept up, and it was a tragic end for Windu.
At least these are my two cents. Any thoughts?
Anakin fell from grace due to a multitude of issues but Mace certainly didn't help matters. He was also a jerk to Ashoka and threw her under the bus when she was falsely accused of terrorism. After Boba tried to assassinate him to avenge his father Mace essentially told him to get over it, not even attempting to apologize or the very least show a modicum of empathy. Mace isn't the most diabolical evil guy but his strictness and lack of compassion turns him into an obstacle.
Mace mishandling the case with Ahsoka was a completely different issue. It certainly had no bearing on his personal opinions about Anakin. And why exactly should Mace have apologized for defending himself against Jango's attempt to kill him? It's understandable that Boba would be upset about his dad being dead, but Windu was not in the wrong.
He should not apologize for killing Jango. That was extremely justified. And Boba has no right to judge either, he went out killing people himself and was fully on board with his fathers plans.
@@decepticonxhunter4850 He killed him fair and square. Jedi are meant to refrain from killing defenseless prisoners (it's a war crime after all and they are supposed to be honorable and somewhat chivalrous like knights were at least supposed to be). In the heat of battle kills do happen if you can swing a weapon which can cut through everything. Jango knew what he signed for.
@@firstnamelastname9237Kill a kids dad and you do deserve to have the son take you down.
@@ordo_draigo_assault_ham Not really, no. Also, that’s just a revenge line. Murder goes around killing people, finally loses to someone. His kid kills that someone, that someones kid kills the original murderers kid, and on it goes.
Jango deserved to die, he was a Murderer and was actively aiming to kill Mace, but he failed because Mace killed him.
Thank you for saying this you are 100 PERCENT CORRECT. More people love Count Dooku who enslaved many of the people during the zygerian arc and the twileks of ryloth which Mace had to go and free them all because Mace was stern.
Star wars fans are cancerous. But Dave Filoni has been trying his hardest to character assassinate the jedi except for Qui-Gon and his pet Ahsoka.
@@tahjsimon9058Why did he want to assassinate the characters?
@@peralta8013 to make Ahsoka the golden jedi exemplary of "what a jedi should be".
Had her dressed like Gandalf the White at the end of rebels. Has her connected to 'the daughter' who represents the light side. It is shameful at this point.
@@tahjsimon9058 Why is it shameful? And what's the Golden example of what a Jedi should be?
@@peralta8013 "1. He turned Grievous, who used to be a Jedi-killing machine and a master strategist who Thrawn greatly respected into a cowardly, mustache-twirling villain who flees at the very sight of an ever so slight challenge. One who's easily outclassed by Ahsoka Tano, a literal padawan, and a group of Gungans.
2. He took Ventress, someone who used to be able to go toe to toe with Anakin, and turned her into someone who barely challenges Ahsoka, again, a literal padawan.
3. He took Barriss Offee, someone who was so compassionate that her lightsaber style and/or form was one of defense and not offense, where she would rather deflect any oncoming attacks back at the aggressor and not actively engage the aggressor. Someone who was so compassionate that she ended up specializing as and being a healer and she was turned into a terrorist who then has her best friend framed for the attack.
4. He took Count Dooku, someone who had plenty of nuance and was an idealist who saw the corruption of the republic long before the Jedi Council, which included but is not limited to Mace Windu and Yoda himself, and turned him into another saturday morning cartoon Villain.
5. He took the story of Anakin Skywalker and ruined it by having him already be knighted a mere 2 months into the Clone War, which was immediately after he has been seen/shown disobeying direct orders from Obi-Wan Kenobi and Mace Windu. As if that wasn't bad enough, he then had to give him his own padawan learner. If the Prequel Trilogy has anything to go by, it's that the council never saw Anakin as ready enough to be officially recognized as a master by themselves.
6. They took Luke and turned him into someone who runs away from the problems he caused, someone who doesn't answer his sister's call for help, someone who doesn't even get to mourn his best friend, and someone who loses to a girl who literally had the existence of the Jedi verified and/or confirmed to her mere days ago and who was never trained in both the ways of the force and lightsaber combat.
7. The Clones and the inhibitor chips aren't in line with both the Prequel Trilogy and the EU.
8. He took the expansive enormity that is the Clone Wars Multimedia Project and shrunk it down to a show that's basically an "Ahsoka and friends" show. Seriously, we'd have to have fate on our side to have an episode that doesn't focus on the "A-team". A show that treats the war the way a child would. A "war" where the "good guys" win every battle of the war while also losing the war." Slightly altered and copy/pasted comment of mine.
Also I find it hilarious when people say "Mace never trusted Anakin"
Well he was right 😂
Like did you not see the movie? He kills off 99% of the jedi order but Mace is the bad one for being right not to trust Anakin?
But why did anakin become that way it was because mace and many of the jedi never trusted him and they ignored his fears of losing people the jedi created the monster they feared
Maybe Anakin turned that way BECAUSE nobody trusted him?
@@jyotirani8187 did you watch the movie?
He turns for Padme, that is clear.
He says "I need him" and betrays Windu.
Then says to Palpatine "I'll do anything, just help me save Padme".
I don't think that if Windu trusted him that would change Anakin's mind.
He did kill Jedi at the temple that did trust him, even little kids who looked up to him.
He did it out of selfishness, Windu was correct
I understand Mace Windu's actions and can justify them. At the same time I recognize the impact he had on Anakin's fall.
Mace Windu not arresting Palpatine and opting to kill him makes sense not just for the reasons you stated but also how that trial would go. Even if they could prove Palpatine is a Sith Lord it technically wasn't illegal, hella suspicious, but not illegal. Meanwhile 4 Jedi Masters assaulting or fighting the Chancellor is very illegal.
Actually, TROS implied that being a practicing adherent of the Sith religion was in fact, illegal. That's precisely why Palpatine made effort not to expose himself to the Senate as a Sith before and after the Republic's fall, and it's also why the Jedi moved to arrest him once Anakin informed Mace that Palpatine was the Sith lord they were looking for.
@@decepticonxhunter4850 TROS novelization explicitly stated that being a Sith Lord was not a crime. Granted, it was Palpatine who said that but he did play the recording of Mace Windu accusing Palpatine of being a Sith before the Senate, and none of them batted an eye (although that could've been because they thought Windu was lying or didn't know what a Sith was). Nonetheless, Palpatine being the Sith Lord also meant he orchestrated the Clone Wars and the assassination attempts on Padme (which Anakin conveniently forgot about in ROTS), which would constitute espionage and high treason.
Even if it was illegal the Courts could just not convict him as Mace said. "He has control of the Senate and the Courts." Honestly the only way to stop what Palps was doing was to kill him. But fuck I've been listening to the RoS novelization and I'm just like. "ANAKIN YOU DENSE MOTHER FUCKER! If one of your three most important people is trying to turn you against the other 2 most important people it means that 1 is the toxic one!"
Dave Filoni went out of his way to villainize this character, while at the same time adding no layers to him despite having SEVEN seasons of a whole TV show to do so!
People hate Windu because he's a BMF it's even on his Light Saber , And Mace never choked his secret wife or kill younglings..
When you said that Mace Windu does what he thinks is right and doesn't care what others think of him, I was like, _Oh man, I'm a Mace Windu!_
Its always easy to compliment yourself. And the internet does not count because everyone on the web is unhinged and will snap if you push their buttons just a little too much.
It has something to do with the fact that we cant see eachothers faces and therefore cant really empathize with eachother. So yeah, too much internet can make you a sociopath lol.
a self admitted sociopath.
people see mace windu as the person who takes their job to serious
I just don’t understand why he says he doesn’t trust putting Anakin and Palpatine together but then proceeded to put them together
Me: *Just makes animatics of me playing music outside the Jedi Temple*
Palpatine was losing because Mace's shiny head blinded him
Other council members: Apologizing profusely to Ahsoka
Mace Windu: GrEaT tRiAl
You're making a very good argument and I agree. It reminds me of another analysis video (that I of course can't find right now) which talks about how Anakin was in the end still the one person at fault for his fall to the dark side. Yes, there was Palpatines manipulation, yes, the Jedi Order had flaws that pushed him away from them, but in the end it was him who made the crucial mistakes and dedisions. He was ambitous. He wanted to become the strongest Jedi while also being in a relationship. It was not allowed and he knew it, but he didn't care and tried to make it work anyway and it didn't. It wasn't only outside factors (Palpatine and the Jedi Order) that made him fall to the dark side, but mostly his own character flaws that he knew he had but failed to take care off properly, because he thought he could handle them or didn't consider them actual flaws.
Great video and Thank you!! Mace is NOT a bad person he just loyal to a system with flaws but one he genuinely believes in can do good.
The rots novel has so much that’s helps him grow with stuff like “mace windu too has secret love, the republic.” Shows his genuine care for the republic
In reference to anakin “he is the arguably the most powerful Jedi alive and his powers are still getting stronger.” Was not arrogant as he concluded inferiority to Anakin even defending him to obi wan who was doubting Anakin ability for a solo mission
When Anakin arrives into the office he does even question it he just says “Anakin now is your chance.” And “”This is your destiny.” Showing he really thought Anakin was/is the chosen one
If only he had trained Anakin I feel like they would have got on well after they understood each other
Bro, he wasn’t cool with killing children, he knew it was the only way to save Padmé
I like mace and I do think some ppl hate him without understanding him, but he really can come off as unlikeable at certain points, and I would say he definitely didn’t help Anakins decent, but he didn’t cause it either I think it’s probably somewhere in the middle
the whole point of mace windu was that he was the representation of everything wrong with the jedi
Thats why he and palpatine both say "He's too dangerous to be left alive" showing that the jedi aren't that much better than the sith
Thats why he rushes in to face palpatine before telling the council, showing how the jedi don't think things through and aren't trusting each other
Thats why he breaks the jedi code to kill palpatine, showing how the jedi are hypocritical
Thats why his lightsaber is purple, its closer to red than all of the other jedi, showing how the jedi are getting closer to the dark side
@@minerpvpgaming2160 I’d agree on most besides, the Jedi going to the dark, mace tapped into the dark side, every now and then and was more of a grey Jedi like qui-gon ( sorry if I misspelled ) but I think that was the problem with the Jedi and the sith, they relied too much on one side of the force rather than just using the force both light and dark perfectly balanced, but that’s jus my opinion
@@JewishSeaslug7575 I agree but I think the light side was supposed to be good and the dark bad and qui gon only used the light
In canon the light is used by clearing ur mind and listening to the will of the force while the dark is forcing ur own will on the force which is why it requires using and amplifying ur emotions which is where your will comes from
All of the people that died became part of the force so the light is pretty much doing what the universe and all dead people want u to do while the dark is being selfish
So I think it’s the opposite and that they failed because they were pushing their own will and acting more selfish instead of just using the light like qui gon did
Qui gon’s whole thing was following the will of the force rather than institutions like the Jedi and I feel like he represented what the Jedi were supposed to be
I was referring to how in the clone wars barris says that the Jedi are fighting for the dark side and are corrupt and how in ROTS mace is the representation of that
@@minerpvpgaming2160 I can get behind that, but I do believe that true balance is what they needed, the dark corrupted some but light blinded others, I think following the will of the force could be having true balance is using light and dark, not leaning on one, I’m pretty sure true balance is having both, I mean that’s why there’s never only sith walking around, and vice versa, you need both
Im glad im not the only one who noticed Mace saw Anakin as a friend (of sorts) in his final moments. When Mace was talking to Anakin and Palpatine saying stuff like "he's too dangerous to be kept alive!" Mace was talking to Anakin matter of factly, telling Anakin this information as respected Jedi equals. He wasnt saying it to spite or anger Anakin. He was just talking to Anakin in a desperate and extreme situation, like how a Jedi would talk to his Jedi partner, or padawan, when facing a dangerous opponent together. Mace's attitude in this scene is greatly misunderstood. Fantastic video!
The man has shatter point as an ability, he threw hands with battle droids, he’s goated.
Mace’s trusted in Anakin after Shatterpoint. And I am sure part of the reason people don’t like Mace is because of TCW in the old legends stuff pre TCW Mace was definitely a more sympathetic character. The second strongest Jedi the guy who could have ended the war before it started.
Also read the Novelization of RotS Mace is fighting not for himself or the Jedi order but for the Republic for normal people to live in peace. That’s the only reason he had to power to match Palps. He normally doesn’t have that power.
Thanks for making this. So glad this was in my recommended. My neurons fucking die every time I hear a fan bitch about how mean Windu was
Honestly the arc for Windu is such an interesting element of episode 3 and Sam Jackson is so cool that I wish we got more Mace Windu content in the prequels, even though it's part of the story it's too bad his character is dead, would've been interesting to see what Mace Windu would've been up to after Episode III
I just think he is a Republic jedi in extreme way and that make him arrogant like we see after the Ahsoka trial and dosen't apologize because he thinks all was a test of the force or even when he catch up with Boba and say "Well you are going to forgive me" he does everything for the Republic instead of follow the will of the force even in the novel of revenge of the Sith(no really canon now but is interesting) there is a quote that say "Mace windu had a secret lover and that was the Republic". I dont hate Mace he is a cool jedi but he is also has problems.
In TCW, Windu and Skywalker have a very chummy personality. Windu says "I don't trust him" in ROTS so it's fair that fans are divided.
Yeah it’s understandable why fans feel that way. I just wanted to stress why Mace not trusting Anakin wasn’t because he just didn’t like him. Mace said that because Anakin didn’t want to spy on the chancellor despite Palpatine’s suspicious behavior. Anakin’s close relationship with Palpatine was now a potential threat to the jedi order. Mace’s feelings are understandable imo
It's not really fair when ppl still can't be bothered to watch the deleted scene where that statement is put into its proper context, even though it's existence is common knowledge by now. Ppl just want to continuing pretending that Mace never said that so they can continue to argue that Mace hated Anakin.
@@decepticonxhunter4850what scene?
Almost changed my mind on him, then i remembered how much of a douche he was to Ahsoka.
I didn’t have a problem with Mace until the whole expelling Ahsoka story, and how he acted in that story, particularly including the way he spoke after her innocence is proven, basically ignoring the fact that they got it SO wrong. To top it, the way he was with Ahsoka after she captured Maul, snarkily calling her ‘citizen’ and refusing to tell her anything due to his own pride. These flaws are present across most of the council, but particularly in him. I was on team Windu before this though, when half of the fandom already hated him
its crazy that im getting recommended this video lol. cause i just had this same argument with a co worker just 2 days ago. I had to defend my boi mace against 2 co workers xD
Yes Anakin was manipulated. But ultimately he is also to blame for his actions. He made a decision to kill everyone to save Padme, which is selfish.
Mace was kinda mean to Anakin.
Yet people always victimise Anakin and blame Mace for everything.
In the end Anakin screams "I need him!". So I'm pretty sure that even if Mace was nicer to Anakin, then everything would play out the same cuz Anakin was only thinking about saving Padme anyway
This video was 100% needed. Mace Windu has had 100% good intentions plus great discipline.
Mace had the potential darkness that Anakin and Dooku had. But he controlled his and channelled it for good, whereas Dooku and Anakin bent the knee like DOGS to Sidious.
How Mace Windu is seen as worse than mass murderers Dooku and Anakin is shocking for me. Until you realise that many fans try to both sides the jedi and the sith, want to be sith themselves and pretend that the Sith code doesn't promote evil inherently. Then use like 3 faux-sith to pretend that you can be a "good sith".
Yes and fans have also tried to blow up the "Gray Jedi" concept as being canon. But we have never seen Gray Jedi in anything. Qui-Gon and Ahsoka are considered to be Gray Jedi but they're not, they're still light-side Force wielders that focused on serving the light side of the Force over Republic politics.
George Lucas says good guys use blue and green, bad guys use red lightsabers. It's the fans that try to both sides Star Wars.
the whole point of mace windu was that he was the representation of everything wrong with the jedi
Thats why he and palpatine both say "He's too dangerous to be left alive" showing that the jedi aren't that much better than the sith
Thats why he rushes in to face palpatine before telling the council, showing how the jedi don't think things through and aren't trusting each other
Thats why he breaks the jedi code to kill palpatine, showing how the jedi are hypocritical
Thats why his lightsaber is purple, its closer to red than all of the other jedi, showing how the jedi are getting closer to the dark side
Hes not worse than dooku or vader but he is worse than the other jedi
@@minerpvpgaming2160 No he isn't you clown. Mace is an example of a GREAT jedi.
Sidious was too dangerous to be left alive because they were literally incapable of taking him alive. He was also in control of the courts and the Republic army and had the approval ratings of the Republic.
Star wars fans just stay spouting bullshit.
@@tahjsimon9058 maybe that’s true, but the intention of the movie was for mace to be seen as the corruption of the Jedi
That’s why he and palpatine (the main villain) say the exact same sentence in a similar context to anakin which shows him that palpatine was right when he said that the sith and Jedi are similar in almost every way which leads to his turn
@@minerpvpgaming2160 where are you getting that from?
The movies show Mace Windu as a wise, stern yet loving and caring leader of the jedi.
Especially when you take into account the novelization of the movies.
Mace Windu LOVES the Republic, he was worried about Anakin getting swallowed by the dark side and so told him to stay despite the prophecy all but guaranteeing that he would die if he did. Mace Windu took the risk because he knew that Anakin wasn't ready.
Mace Windu heavily regretted not taking out Dooku on a mutual fatal strike so that the war and plot against the jedi would have ended. He was not going to make that mistake with Sidious.
Mace Windu intended to take Sidious alive until he proved with his IMMENSE force lightning that even unarmed he is a monster. In the novelisation it says that Windu's blade was getting bent back. The same lightning that EASILY knocked Yoda's lightsaber out of his hand.
There is literally nobody except Windu who could hold off that lightning.
The jedi are not robots, the code doesn't exist without context and application. But the selflessness remains, Windu realising that there was no way of capturing Sidious alive had to weigh between running away like Yoda or killing him.
Now recall the horror that occurred after Windu's death and after Yoda had to flee. That is what Windu was going to stop, it is the classic kill Hitler before WW2 concept.
Anakin already came and Sidious was sinking his claws into him so in a way it would have saved Anakin from becoming Vader as well.
Mace Windu is awesome but a flawed human being but he was far from a bad person.
I'd like to add that in th books, Mace and Anakin are very alike when it comes to the people they love, With the former going to and almost risking the fall of Haruun kal just to save Depa Belaba. The major difference between the two is that Mace knew when to let go.
I liked Windu ever since the Clone Wars 03, he reminded me of Samurai Jack when he took down that army of droids. The way he talked to Ahsoka after the trial, that's when I said "F Mace Windu". I agree with how he was stern with Anakin and R2D2, Ahsoka was where I drew the line. Also, add the hypocrisy of the Council, and Windu bringing the B team to kill Darth Sidious.
Ngl “B-Team” made me laugh. To be fair tho, I don’t think there was anyone else available that would’ve stood a better chance against Palpatine. But I understand your point. :)
Wile I view mace did not hate Anakin or disliked him, but he did tell Anakin to his face that he did not have trust him in a way before he said Anakin earned his trust, basically telling him in the past the Jedi order did not trust him for a while, and Anakin mentally said he knew the order did not respect him(well he thinks for that part.) But never that they did not trust him.
But mostly your right in my opinion, but Mace Windu did mess up a few ways on his own there, but Mace Windu mostly is a good man who did his best for the galaxy.
I remember back in like 2016, people loved mace windu alot more, then in like the 2020s his and even yodas portrayal shifted to a much more negative light in the fanbase... i have noticed star wars commentary youtube channels and threads on reddit change their opinions on them at some point maybe 2019... there where youtube titles going "why mace windu represents the worst aspects of the jedi" and stuff like that.
Hard agree with the video and additionally, I think one of the most absurd arguments regarding Mace Windu thus far has been the death of Jango Fett. News flash, it was a warzone and Jango threw himself into that conflict with the intent to kill any and all enemies he came across. Mace had absolutely no reason to try and take him prisoner when there’s so much going on as it is.
And Anakin did hesitate before slaughtering those younglings. There's a comic portraying Anakin's guilt about slaughtering younglings.
I’m Hella happy you made this video, the only thing you’re wrong old is mace Windu has no arrogance.
Hey man your videos are so cool how do you not have a larger following, keep up the work and you’ll blow ip
Thank you so much! :)
First thing good about Mace windu
Take a seat young skywalker
Second thing
He the Rock my gezz
4:09 Imperium of Man fans have something to say about this...
You've opened my eyes. I didn't hate Mace Windu as much as other people do, but I now understand him much better than I used to! I still think he's made some wrong choices, like killing Jango in front of his son, but that's still a pretty hard choice to make
Ayo! Let's go! I've been saying this. Mace is very much like Anakin. He has comics and books where he tries to save the "little guy" and was upset when Beaurcracy got in in the way. The problem is he would defer to Yoda.
Mace trusted Anakin. He believed Anakin was the chosen one. In a deleted scene, Mace gave Obi-Wan advice on trusting Anakin and his instincts. And in RoTS he trusted Anakins intel and could feel conflict in Anakin about Palpatine, so telling him to stay behind is a good choice.
I don’t think Anakin ever had a list for power. This just doesn’t fit his character and who he was. On mortis he denies the Father’s offer to become a god like figure, he really only falls because of his attachments to Padme. That being said, Mace Windu was justified in his decisions. He didn’t want Anakin on the as a master because he was unstable, he had too much emotion. But his input was still important so he was offered a seat on the council.
He definitely didn't crave power before revenge of the Sith, and his motive was saving padme. But no matter how good your intentions are at the start, once your so deep in the dark side you love the power it gives you. That's why he didn't just leave with padme to naboo when she tried convincing him to on mustafar
Hate =/= wanting to kill someone. Lmfao.
4:06 Did you mean in Revenge of The Sith where Anakin wasn't really Anakin anymore, or Attack of The Clones where he was in a blind, uncontrollable rage and attacked anything and everything that moved?
People forget that Jedi during this era are SUPPOSED to be level-headed and detached. It’s the whole point of their ideology to NOT be too emotional.
I think a large part of the misunderstanding is also the fact that Mace is neither grandfatherly like Yoda, nor is he witty like Obi-Wan etc. He is a particularly stern and impolite individual, traits that to many people in this day and age and that many don’t really know how to handle anymore irl.
I Got a love hate relationship. I hate the jedi's hypocracy and when mace speaks cause of his bluntness he spouts alot of it the loudest when the conversation arises leading me to hate him the most especially as it drives his sense of responsibility
But then i also think he is pretty forward and cool and sensible but at the same time understand anakin is arrogant but also fails to realise he is too arrogant to fully understand anakin or the code he follows and the council he shadows
He's Samuel L. Jackson. Pretty hard, to hate him. Anakin KILLED kids, I don't think Windu is the reason, for him going bonkers.
People definitely just want someone to blame for Anakins choices. No matter what, he himself chose the dark side in that moment and he has no one to blame but himself
Mace deserves some love and deserves more attention plus at the end he is right for not trusting Anakin.
I think mace is great but in the end it was Mace Windu that helped Palpatine take that last big step to turn Anakin to the dark side. Mace Windu represented the ideal Jedi at the time and when Anakin saw Mace Windu about to kill an unarmed prisoner and was about to break the Jedi code he snapped, which led of course to his death by Palpatine
In addition to that I honestly cant see Yoda running the Jedi temple so i imagine that all the bs that comes up in a monastic spiritual Order of space Wizards that can sometines see possible futures was Mace Windu's problem. And after dealing with whatever nonsense comes up he also has to deal with an active galaxy Spaning war, the hunt for the Sith lord, a chancelor who seams to get more power every other week and then at the end of the day Anakin Skywalker struts through the temple and all but demands to be made a Jedi Master. (Ok i may be exaggerating a bit but i think i got my point across). So i think we could excuse him being a bit short tempert and unwilling to entertain some things.
5:34
Lightsaver
lol my b
I liked mace windu and how cool he was, he was very powerful and he was wise. I always get sad before anakin betrays him to save Palpatine. Mace was a good jedi trying to do the right thing and stop the sith.
The minute he drops his guard down on Anakin and decides to trust him Anakin kills him 😅 damn man lol
This makes sense! Great video but I do have one question: If Anakin has simply just been patient and controlled his emotions, would Mace have likely granted him the rank of master?
I have a feeling like the Clone Wars did Mace dirty.
Anakin wasn't okay with killing younglings. The canonical comic Star Wars: Darth Vader #7 confirms the younglings' deaths caused Anakin grief, self-loathing, hatred and pain, fueling his descent even further into the dark side. He focused on his anger to try and drown out his conscience but it didn't completely work which is why we see him crying on Mustafar. He was doing all of this with the belief that he was going to save Padme and when he didn't, it left him broken, causing him to basically lose all hope that he could be redeemed and just doubled down on serving Palpatine no matter how much he loathed him
And the Sand People? He did do that and he didn't feel bad about it. In one of the comics he said he'd do it again.
Well said. I always loved Mace but unfortunately all the Star Wars content creators I watch put a lot of the blame on mace windu for what happened with anakin and always calling him out as a big meanie and an arrogant prick. Some of their stuff I’ll admit rubbed onto me and I was kind of buying it. But I always knew that I liked him for a reason and you confirmed it. He still followed what the Jedi council said a little too much and in part did whatever the senate wanted so I still do think part of the Jedi’s destruction can be blamed on him but he should not be blamed for anakins downfall
Great video
Just subscribed notifications bell on!!!
Aside from Rex and Obi-Wan, Anakin is my favourite character because he exists to lay the foundation of star wars as much of the world knows it, sure there's been so many books released around the original trilogy, and building up before in the age of the old republic
But i'm just biased towards liking the prequels because it's what I grew up with, so projection is on the money
But I didn't really Hate Mace, I did see several other videos that had the idea he hated Anakin.
Growing up you learn to not see the world in just black and white but in shades of grey, there's more to the picture than just hating or loving there's what's in between, I'm sure Mace had some modicum of respect for what Anakin represented, even during the clone wars he seemed to admire his ambition and creativity. But deep down he didn't fully trust him because of his dark history.
That's kind of the takeaway I have that he wanted what was best for the jedi order but hesitated when he told himself he wasn't going to
Also he's played by one of the most captivating actors of our age his purple lightsaber is cool as hell
If you wanna understand the real Mace Windu read Shatterpoint.
I found this video quite hard to watch with that effect you added that amade it look like an old style TV other than that great video
This is so underrated
Mace windu is up there with the best Jedi of all time
7:40 is that just a theory? When i saw the movie paying attention the first time I assumed it as true :(
Mace Windu was right about a lot of things, not everything though as he still subject to the dogmatic views commonplace among many Jedi at the time. He was right that Anakin wasn't ready to be a master yet and that his arrogance, impatience and emotional issues were concerning. There are things he could have handled a bit better, but he wasn't entirely wrong.
I never understood why people hate Mace. I myself don't really *like* him persay, but that's because I didn't know him as well as say.. Anakin, Obi-Wan, Yoda, yada yada. But I never hated him, because he was literally just a dude trying to do his job and keep order during a time when order was most necessary. He's smart, and has the balls to be *able* to tell someone like Anakin, who at the time was still considered a padawan iirc, that he can't be a Jedi Master just because he might be the chosen one.
TL;DR I don't get why people hate Mace, he's just a dude doing what needs to be done.
I haven't even watched the the video but bruhh i can't believe people actually think he hates Ani 😭😭
Bro clone Wars and Windu just spat on Ashoca, if he would have listen the order could survive
Mace Windu was a true jedi master second best to Yoda and can eszyle keep up with Darth Sidious who was a master sith lord Anakin was a huge disappointment and should never became a jedi
high quality ahh content
I was lazy editing this one lol but I'm going to work more to step up the quality. I have no idea why this vid got so many more views.
I do think Mace was the straw that broke the Camel’s back that caused Anakin to fall to the dark side.
I agree that Mace didn't hate Anakin per se, nor did he directly send him to the dark side, but he did have an element of arrogance and conceitedness which (especially with Ahsoka's trial) made his character unlikeable and contributed to the fall of Skywalker. I.e. most of the Jedi council (highly likely including Mace) voted to have her expelled completely (before having even entered court), then when found to be innocent, he never apologised to her like the others, only saying the whole thing was 'your great trial' and 'the Force works in mysterious ways'. Whether or not Ahsoka had already made her decision (Edit: to leave) or the effect of his response on it, he still tried to excuse his/the Council's/the Order's unjust treatment of her; although I agree that the Order should have temporarily suspended her rank (perhaps even her Padawan status) expelling her completely belies a lack of respect for someone who trusted the Order implicitly. If you ask me, the expulsion was a political move staged to limit the Jedi Order's culpability in the fallout from the Temple bombing, as an 'active' Jedi being convicted would have been so much worse for their public image, especially as at this point the opinions of the general populace were turning against the Jedi. Ahsoka's treatment both left Anakin unable to trust the Order/Council, and without someone close he trusted- nudging him closer to Palpatine. The powerlessness he felt in the trial and in his visions of Padme dying left him to crave the power Palpatine offered. I don't dislike Mace for his personality, because his worse aspects reflect what the Jedi were fast becoming: a bureaucratic branch of government too concerned with the Republic's ambitions (i.e. suddenly becoming military leaders despite a lack of training and objection to participation in war), and the Order's own traditions, formality, and public image to remember what it meant to be a Jedi- Yoda knew it was happening, and Ahsoka and Anakin both left the Order in some fashion as a result as well. Luke Skywalker's New Jedi Order in Legends really took this message in- allowing entrants at any age, marriage and having children- and did defend their members from public prosecution (e.g. Fate of the Jedi series).
Yes Dang it! I forgot to mention the Ahsoka trial but 100% yes. you explained it well. Mace voting to expel Ahsoka was definitely politically motivated and was a example of him only thinking about what's best for the image of the jedi order instead of the people within it. They essentially abandoned Ahsoka when she needed their support the most. I assumed that Mace was just to prideful/arrogant to admit he was wrong which is why he never gave a direct apology to Ahsoka. His pride is definitely a character flaw but even in this instance it's still understandable why he chose to vote Ahsoka out. Keeping her would fuel even more anti-jedi sentiment among the public/senate essentially making it seem like the jedi are above the law. I understand why people don't like Mace's decision (I didn't like it either) but even in this instance, his reasoning is understandable and not out of malice against Ahsoka personally. It's still consistent with his character.
@@spacewizrd you also forgot to mention the Jedi Council faked Obi-Wan's death the older one can go into stealth Mission and lied about that to Anakin I found out the Jedi Council lie to him and Mace Windu knew about this plan and never ever spoke out against it incident also made of not trust the Jedi
no, the whole point of mace windu was that he was the representation of everything wrong with the jedi
Thats why he and palpatine both say "He's too dangerous to be left alive" showing that the jedi aren't that much better than the sith
Thats why he rushes in to face palpatine before telling the council, showing how the jedi don't think things through and aren't trusting each other
Thats why he breaks the jedi code to kill palpatine, showing how the jedi are hypocritical
Thats why his lightsaber is purple, its closer to red than all of the other jedi, showing how the jedi are getting closer to the dark side
It’s purple because Samuel L Jackson liked purple.
As for sidious, he had just proven he was too dangerous to be kept alive by wiping out several jedi masters. Not knights, *masters* and even having a nearly even fight against Mace himself. Sidious had all the political power and all the personal power to escape. And he’d committed so many awful acts executing him was well deserved.
Also, “aren’t that much better” are you delerious? You think killing a dude who was leading both sides of a war resulting in countless deaths is equivalent to causing countless deaths, torture, and convincing people to join you and killing infants?
@@firstnamelastname9237 that influenced his character in episode 3
They could have cut of his arms and dealt with it he corruption legally
I’m not saying that, I’m saying that anakin started to believe that after palpatine told him that they are the same in almost every way and when palpatine and mace say the same thing in the same context even though it’s something that goes against the Jedi code
And mace is the second highest ranking Jedi which means he and the council probably could have made amendments to the code instead of just breaking it
@@minerpvpgaming2160 Thing is, that would only have cemented some idea of Jedi cruelty. If he could play on being terrible scarred by his own doing he could ABSOLUTELY play being dismembered as some horrific scene. I’m So no, it wouldn’t have worked. And that’s assuming Anakin wouldn’t have stopped Mace anyway.
Also, even attempting such a thing might actually give sidious an opening to kill him. Any slip up and mace could die. He cannot trust anakin to help restrain sidious, and he can’t reliably do it himself. There really was little choice.
Anakin’s mental issues and ability to be manipulated is not on Mace Windu. That’s on Anakin and on Palpatine.
The code is older than even most hutts and likely many governments. It wouldn’t be easy to change. Additionally, he obviously could not do such a thing in the moment. So it’s irrelevant. Besides, Anakin was regularly willing to ignore the code. He did it constantly. So even if it was against the code, it doesn’t change much.
Yes, mace windu hated anakin
Mace windu is my favorite Jedi.
I never thought he hated Anakin . I thought he was a little bit insensitive not unlike Batman but “hate” sounds like a ridiculous statement.
He was responsible because he did not grant Anakin the rank of master.
I personally do not think that Mace was rude to Anakin because he was like a parent to him or because he was just a jerk. Instead, i think he was jealous. He was 100% sure he was the chosen one. He stood out from the rest of the jedi in literally every way: he had incredible power in the Force, only second to Yoda, he had the unique ability to see shatter points that almost nobody else had, he created his own unique fighting style and became the second after Yoda duellist in the order, he had the highest after Yoda position in the council, even his lightsaber had unique color and was made form luxurious material. He was outstanding in every imaginable way but when a random boy with simply too many midichlorians appeared to steal his destiny he saw him as a rival. That's why he was always against Anakin, because Anakin's achievements could overshadow his own. That's why he prohibited Anakin to assist in Palpatine's arrest and also why he wanted to kill Palpatine right then and there - because he still believed that HE was the chosen one and HE must do it.
Mace: I don't think the boy can handle it. I don't trust him.
Obi Wan: with all due respect, Master, is he not the chosen one? Is he not to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the force?
Mace: so prophecy says (implying that he doesn't agree)
Yoda: a prophecy that misread could have been
Mace: nods in approval
I honestly have mixed feelings about Mace Windu (I love Samuel L. Jackson, and he did a good job playing Mace Windu). I don't hate him, but he is not an angel, either. I do have respect for Windu, though. Windu is one of my dad's favorite characters. Like Obi-Wan Kenobi, Windu has some of the best/meme-able quotes. He is fun to play as in video games/have on your team (I play Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes, LEGO Star Wars Games, etc...). Mace has a great/unique Lightsaber, too (Samuel L. Jackson wanted to have a purple Lightsaber)! I do have to say I like his Lightsaber Fighting Style, too! Ki- Adi-Mundi is someone I do not like, though. I have read and watched videos on him. I did not like what I read/saw him doing. My respect for Mundi is very low.
I've always been a Mace windu fan. He's the perfect Jedi. He knew & faced & controlled his inner darkness. Yoda wasn't even aware of his inner darkness ( clone wars season 6). Anakin was powerful but NOT MATURE, something that's required as a Jedi
I like Mace, but was under the impression he did dislike Anakins arrogance and emotion, even with moderate knowledge of Canon.
He reminds me of Darth Mar in the way that they use the 'dark' side for good, Mar genuinely, and Windu reversing their own negativity. The dudes a noble dark Jedi. The only reason he's a Jedi is the same reason he's a master. Self control