THis video looks at whether you should charge to 100% and if so how often. Also discusses Cell balancing. Other Atto 3 Videos atto3.blob.core.windows.net/a...
This is the best and most accurate and concise explanation that I've seen. Well done. I've had LFP cells in my offgrid power system for 9 years and have had to work all this out for myself.
Thanks, good work. Mine is Atto3 LiFePO3. I generally charge weekly, slow AC charge from 30% to 100%. About twice a year I do a calibration charge from
Bloody brilliant, the service centre couldn't explain why I went from 20km range indicated to 0 in a matter of minutes, just 6km short of my destination. Your video makes perfect sense and I'm now confident that I don't have an intermittent fault with the vehicle. Thankyou very much.
Thanks for the great efforts on this channel. Very insightful. This will be our third ev now, had a LEAF, now have polestar so both used li-on not lfp batteries but my home battery is lfp. I know u can charge daily to 100 with lfp but how long can u leave the car at 100? This will be for the mrs and I will generally manage charging myself. I don’t want to fully charge the car if she isn’t going to use it next day and leaving at 100 is detrimental. We are in the UK, u may get a few more viewers as Atto 3 is now on UK motability scheme in top design spec, with zero deposit. Utter bargain as it gives u the car inc. insurance, tyres, maintenance, tyres, free home charger or discounted public for around £250 a month in sacrificed disability benefit. Keep up the good work.
I use either 10 amps or 16 amps and nearly always the electricity is coming from the sun. At any rate I always charge to 100%. Every day. Best regards from Egypt. My car is the Atto 3.
Hello, thanks for the video, it's very instructive and helpful. I'm a Seres 3 owner and I sometimes have the similar issues. As far as I know, our battery is also LFP, so same instructions are valid I guess.
Under 10% is needed for BYD Blade LFP batteries, to help the BMS better show correct battery percentage. Also charge uninterrupted to 100% on AC from under 10%.
Thanks for the helpful video😊👍 My rant: 80% charge still help extend life beyond car life of 20yrs also keep range as far as possible 100% charge still shorten battery life & range quicker But as you pointed out need to charge 100% from time to time for rebalancing
@@BYD_Telsa Thanks u stand corrected on your info My commemts that is not to say your video is Not helpful in fact thanks to your video add more valuable info to BEV wirh LFP. 👍 mine is from various reading on LFP & ternary Li battery 80% charges will still lengthen battery life Obviously one has different habits and chargimg to 100% on LFP will still last time life of vehicle I'm stingy and frugal thus 80% charge is for me
Thank you for your video and hard work.😊👍 I'm just here making comments of my personal charging preference By tiring making sure BEV if I have one to last the 20yrs, nonetheless it's my rant I also have preference not to. Quick/fast Charge if possible, which will also shorten battery life even if it is LFP Again this is because I'm nutty & frugal
@@BYD_Telsa Initially the LFP charge to 80% will last near 3x its life compare to 100% over time, I take from Utube videos, some online articles, there were graphs presented Some was from Electric Viking channel which he promoted LFP (years before now) However he also stated that even if LFP charged to 100% everytime LFP although loosing life quicker will still last life of vehicle And LFP life is longer then ternary type battery NMA NMC NCA those dangerous instant inferno battery when compartment compromise / short circuit Therefore LFP is a must for those with safety in mind. Sodium battery may be even better supposedly they do not combust Draw back for BEV with safe battery is they are heavy and with lesser energy to weight ratio Safety of people & property is #1 priority #2 battery life
It's best for both Lithium Ion and LiFePO4 to leave at somewhere around 50% charge for long-term unused storage, preferably in a cool place. And, particularly with Lithium Ion, to keep fully charged or discharged for as little time as possible, ie fully charge just before that longer journey and recharge to half full ASAP from empty. This is completely different from the old lead-acid batteries which last much longer if kept fully charged all the time.
Better keep it in 80% for long term storage, when it drop to very low battery state can ruin Li battery - dead battery (same with Li battery ph) 80% can slowly drop to 50% Although some books say keep 50% charge for Li battery for unused Car will continue consume electricity thus drain down much faster Because car battery is attached While other Li battery like drone battery can be unattached & stored. Car battery pack are continuously drain over time
Thank you for the video. Quick question which battery capacity does your BYd Atto 3 has because it shows 480km range with a full charge. Mine is 420Km. Thanks
Thanks very good information. I don't like to sitt in the car to get this information Why isn't the calebration displayed in the software...and in the app during and after charging..so we know if the cells are calebrated.. hopeing for this update soon.
It's probably better if you can manage it, to do a single intermediate charge of 50%, eg from 30-80% as this allows the pack temperature to even out, I believe the optimal pack temp for fast charging is around 35C. What I do is one slow AC charge to 100% once per week (every Sunday). Around town, we do about 40km per day on average, sometimes a bit more. If I need additional juice during the week I wait till it reaches 30-35% and then DC fast charge to no more than 85%. This typically takes 35 minutes on the 50KW fast charger across the street. I normally do this at around 10pm when it's nice and cool and use the time to catch up on email etc. Outside of trips, I only use the fast charger about once per month. I think this routine helps keep the battery in good condition. But I am probably overdoing it. If you are doing a trip I recommend continuing the DC fast charge until you get charge rate roll back (usually between 85 and 95%). In my experience, from 95% the LR Atto easily does 300km cruising at 95-105kmh with 15% in reserve. However, energy consumption rises very quickly at speeds over 105kmh. The best range speed is about 85kmh.
Thanks ,well explained . It's clear to me the bhaviour when the battery is unbalanced but can you please explain how the battery get into unbalanced state on the first place , it sound like wrong/bug in the charging managment ?
It is due to slight differences in cell performance. After several trip cycles these differences accumulate. Fully charging and equalising removes the differences. If you didn't do this the differences would continue to accumulate and ultimately seriously impede performance.
Hi. Great video. Does the NMC battery require top up to a certain percentage for the management system to balance the battery? Tesla Model Y setting recommends charging to maximum 80% for daily driving. I’m just wondering whether to once a week or once a month, top up to 100% for recalibration (if that’s how it works for my Model Y type of battery, NMC is it?)
Wow, thanks for the video. What happens if I did not unplugged the charger after reaching 100%? Because I usually charge at night and I am not able to monitor the exact time that it reach 100%.
Almost all the manufacturers (NOT NISSAN) doesn't charge the cells to 100%, so you see charged 100% but it's not really at 4,30v at cell level, so is safe to charge it at full capacity. (I repeat NISSAN charges at maximun voltage at cell level, so you better not charge it al 100%)
thank you for explaning the cell balancing concept. i never charge my battery to 100%. I always use DC to charge my car to 70% and keep using it til ～15%. How often u recommend to full charge the battery so the atto 3 has a chance to balance its cell? to keep battery healthy and accurate mileage ? Thanks
Regularly fully charging an LFP battery will still cause increase in battery degradation over time yes considerably less than non LFP but still will cause an increase. Needs to be done every 1-2 weeks more for the BMS than anything due to the way the voltage drops and increases making SOC harder to calculate on LFP hence why Tesla recommends to fully charge their LFP batteries so not sure I would tell people to 100% charge after every trip, just my 2 cents Ps otherwise very informative 😊
The advice I have and my research suggests the battery likes to be fully charged. But I will say it prefers to be topped to 100% on the lower charge rate of the AC charges.
100% charge Once in awhile As LFP same like other li battery loose life quicker then 80% charge Although shorten LFP life will still supposedly last life time of car 15yrs Keep LFP in 80% charge unless long distance , will supposedly near have 3x life span then 100% charge each time Also 80% charge keep car max range longer
Hello, a basic question: how is it more correct to charge the batteries in a 61KWH electric vehicle. At low current let's say about 6AH for about 15 hours or 12AH for 7 hours.
Thanks for the very useful info. Out of interest, once you reach 100% on the Atto 3, should you be disconnecting the power from the vehicle, or is it ok to leave it connected until you next drive the car (even if that's days?)
Minimal fast charging only when needed As fast charging degrade battery life even LFP as it has Li Charge LFP 80% to keepn battery life near max, ramge also Charge to 100% to rebalanced as u indicated, it dies degrade LFP battery faster 100% charge by 3x however LFP still last lifetime car bit eill loose km range. Li ion inside
The AC sometimes provokes one, two or even three low banging sounds in the background when the battery is still "cold". But, as I was told, this is of little concern.
LFP can cause problems with giving an accurate range. If you think you will get 480km every time you charge and drive in the city, then go on a trip on the open road that 480km will not be achievable and you could get caught out in both speed and low temperature.
@@BYD_Telsa no your actuality wrong, LFP have a different voltage that drops at a different rate, that is the main reason that the battery needs to be charged to 100% as LFP is not even at discharging. People think LFP is a perfect battery but all batteries have their pros and cons and LFP is no different
@@BYD_Telsa Also LFP are much safer for thermal runaway but they are not immune to that, even the BYD Blade batteries have had some fires in their home country of China. The good old Nissan Leaf actually has had the best record of fires with over 500,000 sold as far as far as I have seen only a single fire has been reported and that fire no information on the cause. The nail test done on the blade battery is a little misleading as that battery is very long so that single nail was just a very small part of the battery. Having said that I am still very interested in the upcoming BYD Dolphin and its on my short list with its Atto 3 drivetrain and 60kwh battery!
LFP chemistry has its limits at 3.65V and 2.5V. Anything above and below that can degrade the cells and you won't be getting the expected life cycles which is around 10K.
Great.. now we know why... but if you charge to 110% and balance your battery then go on a long journey...how do you know if your battery is still balanced by the time you get to 20%?
Some batteries shouldn’t be charged past 80% as a rule unless a travel plan necessitates it. The Atto 3 battery is of a type that is happy to be fully charged.
Non of you talk about the battery buffer so take hyundai and kia 64kW battery this is available to use butvthe battery is actually 67.8kw so you never ever get to a point where you fully discharge. The battery has a buffer. Stellantis has 50kw but most have between 43.6 and 45.5kw avisble to use. So there is a big portion of the battery not being used so you never get to full discharge. The bms should be averaging out the cells and reporting the average charge. Also bms should not be allowing huge variations between cells. The bms are not that primitive. This was an issue in the very early car pre leaf but this should not be the case with post leaf vehicles. If this is happening then your bms software is faulty. Plus you have not covered the different charging type ac v dc . I have to say the owner manual on battery management in kia and hyundai is very comprehensive and there more in the digital version compared to printed . So I am very surprised you say there not much in atto 3 . I looked atvthe owners manual today there is 14 pages of information talking about different types of charging ac abd dc the temperatures about not going below 15% and avoid going above 95% on each charge. So for you to say there not much you are wrong.
This is the best and most accurate and concise explanation that I've seen. Well done. I've had LFP cells in my offgrid power system for 9 years and have had to work all this out for myself.
Thanks, good work. Mine is Atto3 LiFePO3.
I generally charge weekly, slow AC charge from 30% to 100%.
About twice a year I do a calibration charge from
Thanks for a great video, well illustrated and sound logic. Got my Atto3 3 days ago and loving it.
how do you feel like your BYD? is it good?
Many thanks for the detailed & very well explained video. Precise and to the point. Cheers. 😊😊
Great video! You’re a bloody legend mate.
Excellent explanation, very useful.👌👍
Nice work mate well explained thanks love my Atto 3 😁👍
Bloody brilliant, the service centre couldn't explain why I went from 20km range indicated to 0 in a matter of minutes, just 6km short of my destination. Your video makes perfect sense and I'm now confident that I don't have an intermittent fault with the vehicle. Thankyou very much.
I use the 15% buffer principle. Always works.
Great info, Thanks so much for explaining!
Thank you very useful
Thank you for a very helpful video. Keep up the good work.
Congratulations Ian on a great informative video.
It appears you really know your stuff😂
Thanks for the detailed explanation!
Great video! I get it! And now will charge to 100% each night after doing 120 kms weekdays. :)
Thanks for the great efforts on this channel. Very insightful.
This will be our third ev now, had a LEAF, now have polestar so both used li-on not lfp batteries but my home battery is lfp. I know u can charge daily to 100 with lfp but how long can u leave the car at 100? This will be for the mrs and I will generally manage charging myself. I don’t want to fully charge the car if she isn’t going to use it next day and leaving at 100 is detrimental.
We are in the UK, u may get a few more viewers as Atto 3 is now on UK motability scheme in top design spec, with zero deposit. Utter bargain as it gives u the car inc. insurance, tyres, maintenance, tyres, free home charger or discounted public for around £250 a month in sacrificed disability benefit.
Keep up the good work.
Thanks for Sharing and hard work to answer these question. Much appreciated ............
I use either 10 amps or 16 amps and nearly always the electricity is coming from the sun. At any rate I always charge to 100%. Every day. Best regards from Egypt. My car is the Atto 3.
Lovely. Ate there any charging stations in Egypt? Do you do intercity driving?
Thanks very helpful.
Hello, thanks for the video, it's very instructive and helpful. I'm a Seres 3 owner and I sometimes have the similar issues. As far as I know, our battery is also LFP, so same instructions are valid I guess.
Thanks for the useful information
Great video, thank you.
Very helpful, thanx. 🙂
Great video thank-you
abone oldum, çok değerli bilgiler, teşekkürler
Grand job 👍.
Thank you very nice info 👏👏
Great video thank you
What about draining the battery to
Under 10% is needed for BYD Blade LFP batteries, to help the BMS better show correct battery percentage. Also charge uninterrupted to 100% on AC from under 10%.
Thanks for the helpful video😊👍
My rant: 80% charge still help extend life beyond car life of 20yrs also keep range as far as possible
100% charge still shorten battery life & range quicker
But as you pointed out need to charge 100% from time to time for rebalancing
All information I have from BYD and Tesla says that you should charge to 100% at least once per week. Can you advise where you got this info. Cheers
@@BYD_Telsa Thanks u stand corrected on your info
My commemts that is not to say your video is Not helpful in fact thanks to your video add more valuable info to BEV wirh LFP. 👍
mine is from various reading on LFP & ternary Li battery
80% charges will still lengthen battery life
Obviously one has different habits and chargimg to 100% on LFP will still last time life of vehicle
I'm stingy and frugal thus 80% charge is for me
Thank you for your video and hard work.😊👍
I'm just here making comments of my personal charging preference
By tiring making sure BEV if I have one to last the 20yrs, nonetheless it's my rant
I also have preference not to. Quick/fast Charge if possible, which will also shorten battery life even if it is LFP
Again this is because I'm nutty & frugal
@@BYD_Telsa Initially the LFP charge to 80% will last near 3x its life compare to 100% over time, I take from Utube videos, some online articles, there were graphs presented
Some was from Electric Viking channel which he promoted LFP (years before now)
However he also stated that even if LFP charged to 100% everytime LFP although loosing life quicker will still last life of vehicle
And LFP life is longer then ternary type battery NMA NMC NCA those dangerous instant inferno battery when compartment compromise / short circuit
Therefore LFP is a must for those with safety in mind.
Sodium battery may be even better supposedly they do not combust
Draw back for BEV with safe battery is they are heavy and with lesser energy to weight ratio
Safety of people & property is #1 priority
#2 battery life
Nice video
This was soooo good. Ta so much!!!!
Very interesting thank you
It's best for both Lithium Ion and LiFePO4 to leave at somewhere around 50% charge for long-term unused storage, preferably in a cool place. And, particularly with Lithium Ion, to keep fully charged or discharged for as little time as possible, ie fully charge just before that longer journey and recharge to half full ASAP from empty. This is completely different from the old lead-acid batteries which last much longer if kept fully charged all the time.
Better keep it in 80% for long term storage, when it drop to very low battery state can ruin Li battery - dead battery (same with Li battery ph)
80% can slowly drop to 50%
Although some books say keep 50% charge for Li battery for unused
Car will continue consume electricity thus drain down much faster
Because car battery is attached
While other Li battery like drone battery can be unattached & stored.
Car battery pack are continuously drain over time
Thank you for the video. Quick question which battery capacity does your BYd Atto 3 has because it shows 480km range with a full charge. Mine is 420Km. Thanks
Thanks very good information. I don't like to sitt in the car to get this information Why isn't the calebration displayed in the software...and in the app during and after charging..so we know if the cells are calebrated.. hopeing for this update soon.
I have an Atto 3. Does it hurt to charge up in small amounts e.g. 20% here 40% there? Re are there limited cycles for the blade battery?
It's probably better if you can manage it, to do a single intermediate charge of 50%, eg from 30-80% as this allows the pack temperature to even out, I believe the optimal pack temp for fast charging is around 35C.
What I do is one slow AC charge to 100% once per week (every Sunday).
Around town, we do about 40km per day on average, sometimes a bit more. If I need additional juice during the week I wait till it reaches 30-35% and then DC fast charge to no more than 85%. This typically takes 35 minutes on the 50KW fast charger across the street.
I normally do this at around 10pm when it's nice and cool and use the time to catch up on email etc. Outside of trips, I only use the fast charger about once per month.
I think this routine helps keep the battery in good condition. But I am probably overdoing it.
If you are doing a trip I recommend continuing the DC fast charge until you get charge rate roll back (usually between 85 and 95%).
In my experience, from 95% the LR Atto easily does 300km cruising at 95-105kmh with 15% in reserve. However, energy consumption rises very quickly at speeds over 105kmh.
The best range speed is about 85kmh.
Thanks ,well explained . It's clear to me the bhaviour when the battery is unbalanced but can you please explain how the battery get into unbalanced state on the first place , it sound like wrong/bug in the charging managment ?
It is due to slight differences in cell performance. After several trip cycles these differences accumulate. Fully charging and equalising removes the differences. If you didn't do this the differences would continue to accumulate and ultimately seriously impede performance.
Thank you for this well presented and informative presentation. 12/01/2024
Hi. Great video. Does the NMC battery require top up to a certain percentage for the management system to balance the battery? Tesla Model Y setting recommends charging to maximum 80% for daily driving. I’m just wondering whether to once a week or once a month, top up to 100% for recalibration (if that’s how it works for my Model Y type of battery, NMC is it?)
Not sure, I think it is easier for the management to detect the individual cell charge level
Wow, thanks for the video. What happens if I did not unplugged the charger after reaching 100%? Because I usually charge at night and I am not able to monitor the exact time that it reach 100%.
Can I DC fast charge my Atto 3 to 100%? Or would it damage the car? I do it 100% AC but not sure about DC fast charging.
Almost all the manufacturers (NOT NISSAN) doesn't charge the cells to 100%, so you see charged 100% but it's not really at 4,30v at cell level, so is safe to charge it at full capacity.
(I repeat NISSAN charges at maximun voltage at cell level, so you better not charge it al 100%)
No margins eh? Probably want you to replace your battery early. Negates the point of having EVs.
thank you for explaning the cell balancing concept. i never charge my battery to 100%. I always use DC to charge my car to 70% and keep using it til ～15%. How often u recommend to full charge the battery so the atto 3 has a chance to balance its cell? to keep battery healthy and accurate mileage ?
Thanks
The recommendation from BYD is to charge to 100% at least once a week
What wall charger should I get, please? I have only one phase. Thanks
Great video. I charge mine to 100 regularly. How often to you advise to run it down to under 10%?
From my understanding there is neither an advantage or disadantage in dropping to 10%. So when you need to.
@@BYD_Telsa Sweet
When I charge mine it doesn't show calculating when it reaches 99% as your video shows. Ps do you have to run the battery down to
Regularly fully charging an LFP battery will still cause increase in battery degradation over time yes considerably less than non LFP but still will cause an increase. Needs to be done every 1-2 weeks more for the BMS than anything due to the way the voltage drops and increases making SOC harder to calculate on LFP hence why Tesla recommends to fully charge their LFP batteries so not sure I would tell people to 100% charge after every trip, just my 2 cents Ps otherwise very informative 😊
The advice I have and my research suggests the battery likes to be fully charged. But I will say it prefers to be topped to 100% on the lower charge rate of the AC charges.
100% charge Once in awhile
As LFP same like other li battery loose life quicker then 80% charge
Although shorten LFP life will still supposedly last life time of car 15yrs
Keep LFP in 80% charge unless long distance , will supposedly near have 3x life span then 100% charge each time
Also 80% charge keep car max range longer
Hello, a basic question: how is it more correct to charge the batteries in a 61KWH electric vehicle.
At low current let's say about 6AH for about 15 hours or 12AH for 7 hours.
Only question I have is that do i need to do calibration charge meaning twice a year, charge from
Thanks for the very useful info. Out of interest, once you reach 100% on the Atto 3, should you be disconnecting the power from the vehicle, or is it ok to leave it connected until you next drive the car (even if that's days?)
Ok to leave
Once the charger reaches the prescribed max voltage indicating 100% the built in car charging equipment will not accept anymore charge.
Minimal fast charging only when needed
As fast charging degrade battery life even LFP as it has Li
Charge LFP 80% to keepn battery life near max, ramge also
Charge to 100% to rebalanced as u indicated, it dies degrade LFP battery faster 100% charge by 3x however LFP still last lifetime car bit eill loose km range.
Li ion inside
What's the constant banging sound in the background?
The AC sometimes provokes one, two or even three low banging sounds in the background when the battery is still "cold". But, as I was told, this is of little concern.
LFP can cause problems with giving an accurate range. If you think you will get 480km every time you charge and drive in the city, then go on a trip on the open road that 480km will not be achievable and you could get caught out in both speed and low temperature.
Thats not an issue with the battery technology. It is the software that reports the range.
@@BYD_Telsa no your actuality wrong, LFP have a different voltage that drops at a different rate, that is the main reason that the battery needs to be charged to 100% as LFP is not even at discharging. People think LFP is a perfect battery but all batteries have their pros and cons and LFP is no different
,Cheers mate, thank you for your input. I would like to read more info on what you are saying. Can you point me to a source or publication. Appricate.
@@BYD_Telsa Also LFP are much safer for thermal runaway but they are not immune to that, even the BYD Blade batteries have had some fires in their home country of China. The good old Nissan Leaf actually has had the best record of fires with over 500,000 sold as far as far as I have seen only a single fire has been reported and that fire no information on the cause. The nail test done on the blade battery is a little misleading as that battery is very long so that single nail was just a very small part of the battery.
Having said that I am still very interested in the upcoming BYD Dolphin and its on my short list with its Atto 3 drivetrain and 60kwh battery!
Hi, when my battery charging near completion it doesn't show calculating what does that mean any problem thanks
No its good, my understanding is that the battery will not report 100% till it is balanced.
@@BYD_Telsa thanks for your help
LFP chemistry has its limits at 3.65V and 2.5V. Anything above and below that can degrade the cells and you won't be getting the expected life cycles which is around 10K.
Great.. now we know why... but if you charge to 110% and balance your battery then go on a long journey...how do you know if your battery is still balanced by the time you get to 20%?
It will not get out of balance in a single cycle, but over a few cycles
Thanks for clearing that one up. Off to buy one today in no small part because your videos have given me the confidence to do so.
Well, then why on some machines you can set the charge limit to 80%? for example zeekr 001, you can adjust the charge up to 80%
Some batteries shouldn’t be charged past 80% as a rule unless a travel plan necessitates it. The Atto 3 battery is of a type that is happy to be fully charged.
Manual says full charge once a week, and let it deplete to sub 10% every 3-6 months
factory should have calibration the SOC at 0 and 100 levels.
Non of you talk about the battery buffer so take hyundai and kia 64kW battery this is available to use butvthe battery is actually 67.8kw so you never ever get to a point where you fully discharge. The battery has a buffer.
Stellantis has 50kw but most have between 43.6 and 45.5kw avisble to use. So there is a big portion of the battery not being used so you never get to full discharge.
The bms should be averaging out the cells and reporting the average charge.
Also bms should not be allowing huge variations between cells. The bms are not that primitive. This was an issue in the very early car pre leaf but this should not be the case with post leaf vehicles. If this is happening then your bms software is faulty.
Plus you have not covered the different charging type ac v dc .
I have to say the owner manual on battery management in kia and hyundai is very comprehensive and there more in the digital version compared to printed . So I am very surprised you say there not much in atto 3 . I looked atvthe owners manual today there is 14 pages of information talking about different types of charging ac abd dc the temperatures about not going below 15% and avoid going above 95% on each charge.
So for you to say there not much you are wrong.