I’ll say that I’ve gotten some of the worst advise about felling trees by the people that taught me how to run a saw. Zero regard for safety or direction. Just cut it and hope it goes where you want it to. If not, cut it up wherever it lands. I’ve learned more about felling from professionals on TH-cam than anyone that has just cut firewood.
Same sort of upbringing as me then. Everyone cut firewood, but there were never any real obstacles. So they just let it go and wherever it ended up they’d deal with it from there. I have even seen them fell trees in which they were basically “peel-cutting;” that is, putting the back-cut in first against the lean, hoping the tree would peel-off the stump in the direction of the lean. I’ve seen them go backwards, too. But then most of the time they went down fine, but occasionally they went wrong and sometimes they got hung up. I think when you get away with it for so long, it just seems wasteful to take your time and aim a tree. Shame really.
Yeah cutting out the center is actually pretty common in production lumber in the east since it reduces the size of the hinge thus reducing the chance of the wood splitting preserving value. Dead wood is always going to be unpredictable. Personally I just borecut since I can set up a perfect hinge, I don't need to chase the hinge as the tree falls or make adjustments. Also I highly recommend chaps and a helmet.
Funny you say that because I asked Owen about this. He approved of everything I did here, except said I should get trousers and a throw line. He recommended arbortech. I ordered them already. Just so freaking expensive!
Having felled many dozens if not hundreds of dead ash I concur with your concerns about the potential for the top breaking out and about banging wedges. When there were no targets around, I personally have left dead ash standing assuming they would break off on their own within several years. Obviously I did not walk around your tree to see how the center of mass sat in the tree... From a technique perspective, in quite a number of cases I opted to not fell with the lower trunk lay or even the upper. Rather I opted to fell with the center of mass which could have been up to 90° to the lower trunk or top lay. That way I could avoid wedging. After creating the hinge your tree may have fallen over on it's own if that option was available... but then, arm chair analysis is always 20/20. 😉 BTW, your "bell" made my English Setter go nuts! Probably reminded him of upland bird hunting with a bell on his collar!
I probably should have just tossed a throw line in the tree and been done with it. I left this one for three-four years hoping it would blow over, but as you know they stand dead like that a long time. Sorry for upsetting the dog lol.
@@KevinsDisobedience Yeah.... breaking them off isn't a bad way to go sometimes. When I'm clearing hazard trees on the rail trails with my cutting partner we sometimes opt to rip stuff down with the truck... Nobody needs to get hurt!
@@KevinsDisobedience I get that... we went from drought with burn bans to soggy. I waited months and months to burn the tops and small limbs from last winter/spring's storm damage. When they lifted the burn ban I had to build the fires on a large stump/root swell surrounded by standing water! I've had 4 fires so far... I'd venture I spent 24-28 hours tending them. I think one more fire will finish the job. I noodled the rounds and pulled them up the hill with a hand truck as bringing the splitter down to the rounds, or picking up the rounds down there, surely would have resulted in a stuck vehicle. Seems there is no good conditions on that piece of property! Then again, between the storms and emerald ash borer I'd estimate that we've lost about 80% of the trees... the area is starting to look like the old dairy farm fields that were there when I was a little kid... so maybe it doesn't matter! Big maples were involved... the kind of stuff that would have destroyed me if I used the Bison to split it! I've got some smaller oak that I can bust up with that.😉
Well done! I had to hollow the hinge like that once on an axe-cut, dead straight, 14 inch grey gum a few years ago. Live tree but had almost no crown, and after the face and back cuts were in, it just stood there. Eventually with the hinge hollowed, the wind was just enough to take it where it needed. One of the freakiest trees I've ever felled. That ash timber looks nice, like that cant hook too👍
I’ve use it before on dead trees, especially when they’ve already shed most of their crown like this one. I honestly didn’t know it was a thing people did until more recently when I saw FarmCraft demonstrate it. I was like I do that too! My dad’s advice was when in doubt, gun it out.
You made the right call. I’ve had to take out the center of my hindge many a times the hinge is still doing it’s job and keeping that from laying over sideways. Sometimes fathers can be stubborn. Just ask my boys. Now the fun stuff… what was that Maine wedge there?
It’s a technique I’ve used before on dead trees just like this one. I was just surprised with the lean this one wouldn’t go over with the wedge. The Axe is a Snow & Nealy. Here’s a vid in which I give it a little swing: th-cam.com/video/37jBIGJhzQM/w-d-xo.html
I'm a complete amateur but I have learned a bit and the entire point of the hinge is so the tree has something to guide it to where you want it to go. I've only felled 1 tree with a chainsaw so I really am very inexperienced but I just don't see any circumstance where that's a good idea on a tree that's big enough to kill you. Even if you can get away with it. Just not something I would ever want to be comfortable doing. You were talking about the Humboldt undercut. I very much agree with you. That's the only face cut I've tried and it was not easy to line it up correctly for me. Next time I will try conventional.
Honestly, in the situation, with the lean in the direction of the lay, and the wedge in the back, you could slowly cut through the hinge as evenly as you could and it would mostly likely go where it was aimed, but it’s such bad practice I wouldn’t recommend it. Taking out the center of the hinge is a technique I e used before and much softer than “when it doubt, gun it out.” I use a humboldt when I want the tree to slid off the stump smoothly and keep it close, or when I want to save out as much log as possible; otherwise, for firewood, I suggest the conventional cut for the reasons I mentioned.
I agree, although the old man would have gotten away with his “when in doubt, gun it out” in this case. It’s just such bad practice, I couldn’t justify it.
Tough call on who's right. Your dad's way probably would work but could go side to side if you cut the hinge unevenly. Your way obviously worked but your in the direction of the fall when cutting. I guess 20/20 hindsight says cut the center of the felling notch before you start the backcut. Anyway you it got done and you both went home unscathed! Nicely done sir!
Honestly, cutting through the hinge in this case would have most likely worked-but don’t tell my dad. It’s just such bad practice I chose to take out the center instead of slowly cutting through it as even as I could.
Not going to comment on the felling except to agree with you, but the scariest thing to me is what looks like a poison ivy vine going up the trunk😱 I'm pretty sensitive to the stuff and the thought of spraying ☣poison ivy sawdust☣ everywhere... nope nope nope
Dead trees are the scariest to take down. Like you said they like to break off. As to cutting the hinge it's a risk if you don't cut it straight the tree can twist when it falls. But any tree down safely is a win.
Left or right right or wrong...nobody got hurt. We don't have a lot of hardwood in the PNW so I won't comment...just glad she didn't barber-chair on ya. Cheers.
I’ve never seen a dead ash barber chair, but I have seen plenty stand on the stump like this. That’s why I scooped the middle out. Had to do it before.
These dead ash hold on till there is almost no hinge wood left. I’ve taken quite a bit of ash stumps( 30-40ft) down after my boss tops them with bucket and almost all of them wanted to hang on.
Yeah, unfortunately we have a lot of them too because of the boring beetle, so I’ve fought them too. That’s why is took the center out. I’ve had some that have more or less stood on the stump until I pushed them over. Scary stuff to fall.
Great video. Loved your real discussion with Dad. Ha,ha,ha! Sounded like "discussions,"" with my old man. Smile on my face...
I’ll say that I’ve gotten some of the worst advise about felling trees by the people that taught me how to run a saw. Zero regard for safety or direction. Just cut it and hope it goes where you want it to. If not, cut it up wherever it lands.
I’ve learned more about felling from professionals on TH-cam than anyone that has just cut firewood.
Same sort of upbringing as me then. Everyone cut firewood, but there were never any real obstacles. So they just let it go and wherever it ended up they’d deal with it from there. I have even seen them fell trees in which they were basically “peel-cutting;” that is, putting the back-cut in first against the lean, hoping the tree would peel-off the stump in the direction of the lean. I’ve seen them go backwards, too. But then most of the time they went down fine, but occasionally they went wrong and sometimes they got hung up. I think when you get away with it for so long, it just seems wasteful to take your time and aim a tree. Shame really.
Yeah cutting out the center is actually pretty common in production lumber in the east since it reduces the size of the hinge thus reducing the chance of the wood splitting preserving value. Dead wood is always going to be unpredictable. Personally I just borecut since I can set up a perfect hinge, I don't need to chase the hinge as the tree falls or make adjustments. Also I highly recommend chaps and a helmet.
Yeah, I know, I know. I just bought some chainsaw trousers. Helmet next. I’ve never done a bore cut. Might have a go at one sometime. Thanks
You should ask Ben or Owen about chainsaw stuff. I think they are both professional arborist.
Funny you say that because I asked Owen about this. He approved of everything I did here, except said I should get trousers and a throw line. He recommended arbortech. I ordered them already. Just so freaking expensive!
Nice job. I think you handled it well. Looking forward to seeing more of the Muller.
Thanks Brett, I just have to shape the handle.
Having felled many dozens if not hundreds of dead ash I concur with your concerns about the potential for the top breaking out and about banging wedges. When there were no targets around, I personally have left dead ash standing assuming they would break off on their own within several years.
Obviously I did not walk around your tree to see how the center of mass sat in the tree... From a technique perspective, in quite a number of cases I opted to not fell with the lower trunk lay or even the upper. Rather I opted to fell with the center of mass which could have been up to 90° to the lower trunk or top lay. That way I could avoid wedging. After creating the hinge your tree may have fallen over on it's own if that option was available... but then, arm chair analysis is always 20/20. 😉
BTW, your "bell" made my English Setter go nuts! Probably reminded him of upland bird hunting with a bell on his collar!
I probably should have just tossed a throw line in the tree and been done with it. I left this one for three-four years hoping it would blow over, but as you know they stand dead like that a long time. Sorry for upsetting the dog lol.
@@KevinsDisobedience Yeah.... breaking them off isn't a bad way to go sometimes. When I'm clearing hazard trees on the rail trails with my cutting partner we sometimes opt to rip stuff down with the truck... Nobody needs to get hurt!
Yep, if the ground wasn’t wet I might have taken the dump down there and pulled it over.
@@KevinsDisobedience I get that... we went from drought with burn bans to soggy. I waited months and months to burn the tops and small limbs from last winter/spring's storm damage. When they lifted the burn ban I had to build the fires on a large stump/root swell surrounded by standing water! I've had 4 fires so far... I'd venture I spent 24-28 hours tending them. I think one more fire will finish the job.
I noodled the rounds and pulled them up the hill with a hand truck as bringing the splitter down to the rounds, or picking up the rounds down there, surely would have resulted in a stuck vehicle. Seems there is no good conditions on that piece of property! Then again, between the storms and emerald ash borer I'd estimate that we've lost about 80% of the trees... the area is starting to look like the old dairy farm fields that were there when I was a little kid... so maybe it doesn't matter!
Big maples were involved... the kind of stuff that would have destroyed me if I used the Bison to split it! I've got some smaller oak that I can bust up with that.😉
how is the beefy Bison holding up?
Well done! I had to hollow the hinge like that once on an axe-cut, dead straight, 14 inch grey gum a few years ago. Live tree but had almost no crown, and after the face and back cuts were in, it just stood there. Eventually with the hinge hollowed, the wind was just enough to take it where it needed. One of the freakiest trees I've ever felled. That ash timber looks nice, like that cant hook too👍
we use it a lot in arb work to knock out stems. Makes it a lot easier to get the over whilst still maintaining directional wood in the hinge
I’ve use it before on dead trees, especially when they’ve already shed most of their crown like this one. I honestly didn’t know it was a thing people did until more recently when I saw FarmCraft demonstrate it. I was like I do that too! My dad’s advice was when in doubt, gun it out.
Glad to hear it’s a thing professionals do.
calculated and steady despite the doubt and a nagging family member. Well managed.
Thanks, heart was going on the backcut.
That was tense, but good job in the end. Looking forward to the Muller
My heart was pounding, I can tell you that.
You made the right call. I’ve had to take out the center of my hindge many a times the hinge is still doing it’s job and keeping that from laying over sideways. Sometimes fathers can be stubborn. Just ask my boys. Now the fun stuff… what was that Maine wedge there?
It’s a technique I’ve used before on dead trees just like this one. I was just surprised with the lean this one wouldn’t go over with the wedge. The Axe is a Snow & Nealy. Here’s a vid in which I give it a little swing: th-cam.com/video/37jBIGJhzQM/w-d-xo.html
I'm a complete amateur but I have learned a bit and the entire point of the hinge is so the tree has something to guide it to where you want it to go. I've only felled 1 tree with a chainsaw so I really am very inexperienced but I just don't see any circumstance where that's a good idea on a tree that's big enough to kill you. Even if you can get away with it. Just not something I would ever want to be comfortable doing.
You were talking about the Humboldt undercut. I very much agree with you. That's the only face cut I've tried and it was not easy to line it up correctly for me. Next time I will try conventional.
Honestly, in the situation, with the lean in the direction of the lay, and the wedge in the back, you could slowly cut through the hinge as evenly as you could and it would mostly likely go where it was aimed, but it’s such bad practice I wouldn’t recommend it. Taking out the center of the hinge is a technique I e used before and much softer than “when it doubt, gun it out.” I use a humboldt when I want the tree to slid off the stump smoothly and keep it close, or when I want to save out as much log as possible; otherwise, for firewood, I suggest the conventional cut for the reasons I mentioned.
Kevin's Tree Service. Nice work.
In another life, maybe. In this one I’ll stick to remodels lol
Hinge is only thing giving you any degree of control over safety. I 100% agree with you.
I agree, although the old man would have gotten away with his “when in doubt, gun it out” in this case. It’s just such bad practice, I couldn’t justify it.
Tough call on who's right. Your dad's way probably would work but could go side to side if you cut the hinge unevenly. Your way obviously worked but your in the direction of the fall when cutting. I guess 20/20 hindsight says cut the center of the felling notch before you start the backcut. Anyway you it got done and you both went home unscathed! Nicely done sir!
Honestly, cutting through the hinge in this case would have most likely worked-but don’t tell my dad. It’s just such bad practice I chose to take out the center instead of slowly cutting through it as even as I could.
Not going to comment on the felling except to agree with you, but the scariest thing to me is what looks like a poison ivy vine going up the trunk😱 I'm pretty sensitive to the stuff and the thought of spraying ☣poison ivy sawdust☣ everywhere... nope nope nope
It is poison ivy. I’m very sensitive to. Just gotta be careful where your reach and wear gloves.
The dead, dried trees don't have much weight up top so they don't fall as readily.
Nah, they’re always a bitch.
Felling trees and using a chain saw in general is a great way to get maimed or killed. Good job!
It is that.
That's what I call "good enough". 👍
Dead trees are the scariest to take down. Like you said they like to break off. As to cutting the hinge it's a risk if you don't cut it straight the tree can twist when it falls. But any tree down safely is a win.
Yep, safely down is what matters in the end.
Those little neotech saws work good for the money
So far so good
Sometimes you have to be the adult. Dead ash trees can shatter and drop dead limbs even when you aren't cutting them.
That’s for sure. Cut a lot of these in the last five years, what, with the boring beetle. Just not sure who the adult was here…
Left or right right or wrong...nobody got hurt. We don't have a lot of hardwood in the PNW so I won't comment...just glad she didn't barber-chair on ya. Cheers.
I’ve never seen a dead ash barber chair, but I have seen plenty stand on the stump like this. That’s why I scooped the middle out. Had to do it before.
Not bad at all for a novice brotha good job
Good enough for a painter
Yeah scary. What if you roped the top and did a tractor pull? Is that cheating? Or is that stupider?
Not cheating. Just smart. Throw-line is a great idea. I just thought it wasn’t necessary because of the lean. But would have been safer.
@@KevinsDisobedience Okay. Thanks. Great video , I learned something. That's added to my list of totally bogus ways to die...
The title was a bit deceptive, no idiot...nice falling...great job...
Well, no Buckin Billy Ray, but it’s on the ground and bucked up for firewood anyway.
Dad WRONG, He was advising you to practice / exicute thee number one rookie mistake on perpose
Okay thanks.
Gday Kevin, when you were having a disagreement with your father did he tell you not to be so disobedient ? Ishman.
Lol good one. No it’s just our report. Might seem like we’re fighting, but we’re just giving each other a hard time is all.
Second!
First?
nah the free girls in you city guy beat us all this time hahaha
Hahaha they did hit us up first
Haha
These dead ash hold on till there is almost no hinge wood left. I’ve taken quite a bit of ash stumps( 30-40ft) down after my boss tops them with bucket and almost all of them wanted to hang on.
Yeah, unfortunately we have a lot of them too because of the boring beetle, so I’ve fought them too. That’s why is took the center out. I’ve had some that have more or less stood on the stump until I pushed them over. Scary stuff to fall.