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There is a risk with fabric flocking material. I haven’t flocked any of my scopes. However I’ve owned a couple of William Optics scopes with fabric flocked dew shields and one of the biggest issues with them is that over time fibres from the flocking material have shed onto the objective lenses. Combine that with moisture in the air and it’s ended up with a mess on the objective lenses which can’t be sorted with an air blower. I guess it could be the same for mirror based scopes. I personally would stay away from flocking and use matt black paint to reduce reflections. I certainly wouldn’t use flocking material on the inside of an SCT. I hope this helps. Good luck 👍
depends on the material. when you buy cheap shit, sure......but i use a self-adhesive velour foil from dc-fix, that holds up for years on my scopes. i just use a dust roller from time to time and even after years i have barely any particles on it, after the first usage of this self-adhesive dust roller after application of that foil.
Rather than stick paper to the outside of the camera (I don't feel that much heat dissipates from the outside, rather from the heatvanes ... I think I would make a sleave, or 3D print that slides over the camera, leaving the heatsink openings open.. flock that and see how it goes... then you can slide the flocking flocking on and see the effect without sticky paper all over my nice camera.
That's a great idea! One thing I don't like about sticking paper on the camera will be the increase in the camera diameter... And thus the central obstruction for this particular telescope!
Doing this made a substantial difference in my images taken with a Newtonian reflector. In that case the side of the tube opposite the eyepiece (behind the secondary) is the prime spot that needs it, but the entire tube wasn't a big deal to do.
I just went through applying Edmund Optics flocking sheet to the inner tube, inside/outside of the secondary mirror hood, and the central baffle tube on my 6SE. The factory internal coating is like gray paint rather than black! And it's not even fully matte either, its actually somewhat reflective! Just pointing a flashlight inside and taking a look will show you how bad it is. Rather than taking the corrector plate out on its own, It's far easier to remove the dovetail bar and then remove the 4 screws around the corrector plate end housing which then just slips off the central tube. This lets you remove the entire corrector plate housing with the corrector plate still installed, and they're countersunk screws which pull the end housing back into the exact same rotational/axial location once retightened so you won't lose collimation. Also, because the dovetail bar will only mount in one position where the mounting screw holes are lined up between the rear and front assemblies, you can't screw up the optical alignment during reassembly. You can remove all 4 screws from the corrector plate assembly to get that out of the way, and then remove the 4 screws around the rear mirror assembly as well, which will then let you pull the center tube section away by itself without any risk of damage while working near the mirror. Looking into the scope from the front after applying the flocking is like looking into a black void with a mirror floating in the bottom lol. It seems to have given me a nice improvement in contrast, though I didn't take any ADU measurements before/after as I was fairly convinced the original coating was so bad it had to be causing contrast issues along with my other problems. If you weren't using the hyperstar, flocking the inside of the baffle tube will cut down on a ton of internal reflections too. This most notably solved the "diamond ring" internal reflection when looking towards a bright star just out of frame. My subs seem to have much less overall field brightness after flocking everything I could, like the objects pop from a now-darker background. When taking some test shots during the day the improvement was pretty significant too, much more contrast rather than a grey washed out photo. I could probably strip the scope down again in
I flocked the inside of an old C8 using ProtoStar's product. I chose that deliberately because it has a plastic backing that wants to lie straight. This meant I could curl it up inside the tube and its trying to spring open would hold it in place. Precise cutting (admittedly requiring much trial and error fittings) helped to reinforce its staying in place. I never did any A-B comparisons but subjectively it felt like it improved contrast. OTOH a car often feels newer after visiting the mechanic even though what was done has nothing to do with anything. ;)
I put flocking paper in my SCT long ago. To make it removable I attached the paper to a large laminated map I had and cut it into a rectangle that would form a cylinder inside the SCT with seam edges tightly pushing together holding it in place. The trick is getting the edges aligned and shaved down. I did this to my SCT 20 years ago and it is totally removable and still working great. The laminated map tries to straighten itself but it is held back by the interior cylinder of the scope. The cut edges press against each other further helping to keep the shape.
Hi Cuiv, Jaime from Chile, I think a good solution and reversible could be to get a radiography, large one, measure the perimeter of the inside of your c6 and cuttings to the proper depth, then flocking the radiography and paste with a masking tape from outside to make a tube which can be place inside the telescope tube. This way is easy and if you don't like the result, you just remove the "flocking tube". Greetings from "BelloCielo" backyard observatory.
I flocked the inside of my homemade 6" F8 newtonian yrs ago (40?)... It was extremely hard to lay the paper down and get it aligned properly in 4 feet of tubing. It has overlapping seams and some bubbles where the paper did not contact the tube. If I had to do it over I would have sprayed it with flat black paint. I noticed the other day that some of the edges have started to come up as the adhesive has dried. I have been thinking of putting the tube in a long tray, like a section of gutter, and soaking it in paint thinner to dissolve the rest of the adhesive and then I will just paint it like I should have done.
You spoke about heat dissipation, but I think it would be okay as long as the ventilation is clear for the heatsink on the camera, PLUS it could add a minor amount of insulation to keep the camera from being affected by outside temperature fluctuations. It probably wouldn't change much, but it could be worth testing at the very least, I imagine!
@Cuiv, The Lazy Geek well it would certainly be an interesting test in any case! Would it be worth the cost of a few mm of obstruction to achieve less reflective light, you think? I know every spare mm is precious when you have that big of a camera, but maybe 5mm max would be something to consider!
Internal use of the adhesive flocking on the SCT I’d worry about outgassing from the adhesive fogging the optics. Flocking your camera sounds like a good direction, but if it cools by radiant transfer, that might be a problem - of course don’t cover any vents. Because both images have that strong fogging to the lower right there is something you’re missing… the drawer knob might be the best culprit. Good results. Thanks for sharing.
Cuiv, I just lined the inside of my Astrozap dew shield with the same very light felt paper that you used which I already had. The only trouble that had installing it was that it is so non-reflective that even with a bright light I had a hard time seeing what is was doing! I have used this same felt paper on other objects on my scope that gets hot in Idaho summers and had no trouble with it coming up. I'm looking forward to a clear sky to try it.
Flocking undoubtedly improves contrast. In my experience it’s less noticeable in refractors. I wouldn’t bother on high end scopes that have baffles. It’s almost mandatory on newtonian and catadioptric systems.
If the camera body itself gets hot (ie the body is a heatsink), then maybe flocking it won't be a good idea. Otherwise (it all the heat is dealt with via the vents) then sure why not right? You know what else is reflective? The push-pull bolts of the Hyperstar. Would it be possible to create a very thin, double-flocked (both inside and outside diameter) shroud that won't add to your central obstruction? Finding an attachment point might be tricky though; maybe via double-sided tape around the body? The white nylon washers complicates it since it's jutting 1mm away from the thread. Huh - I wonder if there are replacement black anodized bolts and black nylon washers in the market. You're in Tokyo after all, a hotspot for all hobbies out there. Then just hit those black bolts with a matte topcoat spray paint for gunpla. While unattached to the OTA of course XD The matte topcoat trick might also work for the filter drawer knob, if you can remove it from the drawer itself.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek makes sense; if doing something on the drawer knob solves that weird reflection right? If that still doesn't work, I guess finding+buying the anodized bolts and black washers now and putting a note on their packaging to spray them with gunpla matte topcoat (so you don't forget) might be something to consider, given it is inevitable that you'd have to collimate the scope again in the near future eg to clean it, etc.
@Cuiv. $8 ?!?!? What, are you made of money?!?!? I cut up an old wetsuit and used the black neoprene that I glued to the inside of a cut up beer can to make a dew shield. It works very well.
I did it on my Celestron 8SE a few years ago. I was nervous giving it a whirl but it’s not as difficult as u may think. Cut it to rough size (Bit bigger) of what u need. Get it in place then peel the backing slowly working your way around. Cut your overlap and done. I never did a before and after to see if results were better but I know I couldn’t make it worse😂. Glad I did it and looks great. I also did my Celestron dew shield.
Try printing a baffle for the camera. It should keep glancing light reflections from going directly into the corrector. Combined with a black material, whether matte paint or flocking material, you'll bring down the brightness of that surface. It may also prevent reflections off the knob of the filter drawer.
I did some in my Newtonian. For your camera you might want to consider some matt black vinyl. That will dissipate heat and give you the improvement your looking for.
One thing to be careful about with flocking material is the bazillion little fibers which can come loose. I had some bad quality flocking in a telescope cap and it would always deposit lots of tiny hairs on the glass. Might help blow/vacuum the material before applying it.
I've flocked 3 telescopes 2 Newtonians & a RASA 11, the RASA 11 was done out of necessity due to the water damage it suffered with & the pain used being damaged & in some places washed away. As for the 8" Newtonian if there was a difference it was very minor, as for the RASA well that might have to be done again as the felt like what you used didn't stick inside particularly well, it seems ok for now but I'll be keeping an eye on things. I don't think I'd want to flock a camera if I'm honest maybe try some of the felt but instead of sticking it cut it & hold it in place with a rubber band & try a test run that way you could determine if the camera itself is causing reflections, one thing I have done to my camera is put tape over the LED's not sure if its made a difference to the RASA but it definitely helped with doing some dark frames.
I have recently had great success by painting the inside of 3D printed dew shields and lens hoods (like for the Dwarf II) with Musou Blackest Black, non-reflective, water-based acrylic paint (available on Amazon for ~$25 per 100ml bottle). The Musou Blackest Black is specifically recommended for application to plastic surfaces. I used an airbrush to apply a thin coat of the paint to matte black PLA 3D printed parts but the paint can also be applied with a brush. They are so non-reflective now that it is sometimes difficult to visually discern the surface at all. By using the paint, I am not adding any appreciable weight and I avoid all of the potential problems with the fibers that can exist with many black felt adhesive papers. Of course, I don't think I would try spraying any paint inside my OTA under the corrector plate without somehow protecting all of the optics. BTW... I originally did flocking of the inside of telescopes more than 50 years ago by applying a coating of adhesive to the inside of the tube and then dusting the adhesive with black flocking powder or fibers. That was a real mess.
Great, was almost going to buy the flocking material. Is there also a spray paint version of these blacks? That would cut out a lot of time. Lastly did you find any problems with paint chipping/falling off after some time? Appreciate your answer
Flocking causes the light to go in different directions so it would seem to be a smearing approach whereas a baffled dew tube in effect reflects the light back up the tube. My results with baffled dew tubes have been very encouraging and as I have mentioned before the fact is the Hubble Space Telescope uses the baffling and although I have not found their notes as to why I expect it was a matter that they deeply looked into before going with such an approach...I dont know how one could turn up their notes but one could expect they may have quantified the improvement. I have all the materials to make a baffled dew tube for my RASA 11 but unfortunately my cancer is sidlining me, I am not complaining just giving a reason why it is not getting done ( along with other stuff) but I lost three weeks having more radiation treatment and three weeks is not easy to make up for an old guy like me...I have an Askar 130 on its way and I will probably build a baffled dew tube for it first...and at some point quantify the improvement...I am thinking about how to " flock" the camera in effect and I tend to think that small baffles on the camera may work ... to do this perhaps use a thin metal jacket with rings every mm that are only mm high...this way I could see the jacket and rings able to dissipate heat efficiently... OK it's over kill but I love over kill... I love all your videos and thank you for doing such a great job bringing astrophotography to the world.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Is the dew shield design available somewhere? Nevermind saw your other comments, maybe a good idea if you could put the form in the links or pin it, would spare you a lot of time responding to people.
You always bring up some great ideas Quiv, well I did flock my dew shield about three weeks ago but didn't have the change to test it yet due to very bad weather in our region. I did it on an astrozap dew shield for my edge HD 8, I also used flocking paper but I bought it on a roll of about 1meter wide and 2 meters long It's as you say not easy, but I had it perfect in one try. But I wouldn't trust it to do the inside of my edge ... About the camera, I don't know if it would make any change in your setup because if it would then you would see the reflection also after you flocked your dew shield. At your setup I would look and search where those lines come from
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I haven't measured this specifically, but my guess would be that the increase in wind sensitivity due to this additional area would be much less than the improvement from stray light reduction. Especially as you have a sturdy mount. You can always mitigate wind in other ways too.
I do leather work, mostly belts and custom bags. I make my own dew shields out of 3mm thick vegetable tanned leather, cut it to size dampen it to 75% saturation and tool a decorative border along the edges. Shape it into a cylinder shape and let dry, it keeps its the shape after drying. I use Velcro or brass snaps to fasten it. After it is done I then dye the inside of the shield black and since the flesh side of leather is like suede it absorbs light as well as black velvet does. The outside I dye in a variety of ways. I then seal the leather with an acrylic satin finish on the inside and possibly a gloss finish on the outside that waterproofs it. I was surprised at how many people wanted me to make them a dew shield for their SCT/MCTs with matching carry bags. One lady asked if I could put constellations on it with little stars (I did).
Cuiv, can you take a sky flat just to make sure the issue is not with your flat panel? You can also compare the panel flat to your sky flat to see it there are any differences.
Calibrated frames don't show any artifacts unless the moon is out and either super bright or relatively close to the target, so I don't think it would be the flat panel! I'll see what sky flats could teach me though
@@CuivTheLazyGeek the moon can cause these issue for sure but I thought you had these types of gradients in other images from other videos which was why I suggested sky flats as a try to narrow down the problem. I never had flat issues with my rasa 8 and hyperstar 11 in my bortle8 skies even on bright moon nights so something else could be causing your bad gradient in your final stack. 2 days ago I was shooting M101 and the moon was behind the scope so I know light was not getting directly in the dew sheild. I didn't see any strange gradients in the final stack caused by the moon light sky either. Sorry Cuiv, just trying to brain storm this for ya, lol. I hope you get this sorted. Question, do you think you are getting light leaks from the uniform spacing you did on your hyperstar collimation? I would have to go look at mine but I assume they have a light block in the design.
Excellent project, Cuiv! -- I agree with you about *not* flocking the inside of the OTA. Imagine the complications if it ever got wet inside there again (rain, dew, etc.), with felt soaked, adhesive infused precipitation getting all over the primary mirror and inside of the corrector plate. It sounds like a nightmare to me. I would avoid that like the plague. It should work great on the dew shield though. Very nice project and video!
If you want try blacking out your camera I would recommend a paint called black 3.0 it's called the blackest paint in the world. It would be good for inside the telescope tube as well.
I've done the inside small refractors and it helped contrast as well as ghost flares tremendously. I understand the hesitancy of dealing with the inside of SCTs and around mirrors. The question is how does the inside look now. It pays to look for 'shine everywhere. I found the a focuser the was smooth and shiny. It stuck out because everything and it was baffle threaded. But caution to those going inside their scopes. There's a lot you can mess up if you're not careful. I like using yoga mat material for dew shields. The 3D print looks good. You could just print groves on the inside of it. How big can you go on your printer 😅? Take care!
A fun project! I noticed that the screw on the filter drawer looks quite reflective; have you thought about painting that matte black, or maybe even just removing it? On mine I find that I can remove the drawer by its edges instead of having to use the screw. Perhaps that is contributing to the corner reflection that you are seeing.
You should reprint a second due shield and run the experiment on the same night comparing images with the flocked dew shield and the naked one. It would remove many of the variables you encountered.
Have you considered getting some Vanta Black paint to cover the camera and shield. I have not tried it but I believe that one of the drawback of Vanta Black is its tendency to scratch easily. I am not sure if a coat of matt clear will help keeping it in tack.
I wouldn't think it would affect the cooling system as long as the venting has flow. The vent baffles are dark and don't look too reflective as the cyan base coating does.
I’d be interested to see if covering the filter access hole with flock and cutting a simple cross slit to push the filter through instead of flocking the sliding draw? This might get rid of that last reflection in the flats.
Interesting comparison. It seems that you have a source of reflections, so the flocking seems that it makes it more apparent. So, you would want to do some detective work. Even black plastic can be reflective - try to shine a light into your system and check for reflections and highlights in plastic parts. Most probably, your camera body is shining (I would use matte black paint in order to reduce it, it should not cause a trouble with heat transfer).
I had heard that the interior of an SCT isn’t as prone to internal reflection as a Newtonian, so flocking won’t get you much back. Your instinct about flocking the dew shield and other shiny bits is likely to bring you some results. Interesting as alway Cuiv.
ESA faced stray light issues with Gaia and Euclid space telescopes. If you want good observations or photos use flocking. I tried for light baffles, but the calculator says that my 8" tube needs only one light baffle and I got it from Backyard Universe with the new spider.
Hi Cuiv, today I will not troll, jajaja, I will say that I have flocked my SC6 and is a piece of cake, I know you don't ask for help so, its just removing the dovetail screws and the four phillips screws, and that removes the steel ring so collimation is retained, you flock it and close it up, in two hours if you are really slow you are done, do it, no fear!
My main OTA is a home-made 150mm f8 achromat refractor. I used adhesive and flocking powder inside all the tubing, including the focuser. I also want to do some knife edge baffles, but not got round to it yet. When you mentioned the Peltier cooler, it made me wonder if the warm air flow off the element doesn't cause heat eddies within the dew shield, and cause distortion?
instantly my brain went for black 2.0 😁 you can prob make a "cap" with having black material on, but have cutouts for the heat from the fan area should not affect the camera temp.
Great idea. For the camera, what about some kind of spray? Maybe not paint specifically but similar to a flex seal type matte spray? Some disassembly required
Great video Cuiv. I designed and 3d printed a similar dew shield to yours for my edgeHD8 with a hyperstar. I have several revisions with different features. Some have built-in curved wire guides, some have the wire guides as an optional piece. I also have a cap with a built-in bahtinov mask. I did design in baffle rings to do the flocking -- I haven't tried them yet though. I either use flat black filament or flat spray paint to reduce reflections. My design is strong so I am able to keep the hyperstar installed while I store it away with the dew shield attached.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Thanks! I can't seem to include a link to the details. You can find my journal including links to the files with google by searching for "astropifi blog" Details in an older post titled "Hyperstar!"
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I also purchased some "Black 2.0" paint that is supposed to be one of the most "black" paints possible. I was going to use it but heard that it flakes off sometimes so I chickened out!
@jamieamendolagine205, would you mind sharing your design? I'm planning on drawing something similar up for a 150mm newtonian. I don't know where Cuiv got this design from but it's cool and I want something similar :)
Hi Cuiv, we used to get "Blackboard paint" in the UK - yes I'm old enough to remember 'chalk' & blackboards - IIRC this was a thick non toxic strongly matt paint, it could be useful for this application,esp for awkward ,hard to do, areas where the flocking would be a PITA to apply, either that or Tamaya used to do a flat black paint for models used for radar domes on aircraft. Either that or how about some of the "ultra black" paints... Great vid as always
One thing to be wary of is getting good adhesion to the interior surface. Although I took great care when preparing the plastic surface of my homemade 6” reflector, I was plagued with small flecks of the blackboard paint landing on the mirror :( There was no internet at the time, so advice was scarce, and maybe today there are better preparation techniques nowadays.
@@IMCDundee Sound advice. That particular scope,however is a long time gone. At the time it was an affordable way into astronomical tourism, but if I were getting back into the hobby today, I would buy rather than build at today’s prices.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Thanks, also it's quite easy to do the inside of the tube if you want, just take off the front and rear cells with the 4 screws. I did mine like that and when reassembling the collimation didn't change.
Something I've heard about flocking paper is that it's a "furry time bomb". At some point the velvet hairs on the paper will start to fall off and can be a pain to remove. With removable things like a dew shield is fine, I've seen people line the inside of their reflectors with it, only for it to start shedding 10 years into the future.
@@ishanr8697 I think paint is the best way to go for a long term solution. My understanding is ultra flat black spray paints are the best with a few caveats. There are paints “blacker” out there (that also absorb IR), but they are also harder to apply and way more expensive than spray paint. Now I’ve not done this, though I really want to try it in the future, but one solution to flocking is to use sand. Coat the inside of the OTA with a spray adhesive, then dump a bunch of fine grain sand inside the tube and roll the tube until it's covered in sand. Then take the spray paint and paint over the sand. The fine sand grains act the same way as the velvet should, scattering the light in random directions, and the flat black paint absorbs most of the incident stray light. I think Celestron use to do this in the 90’s, but I don’t see anyone do it anymore. Maybe they found this also has a longevity issue?
I am wondering if your dew shield is 3-5 (maybe more) cm too short. For Hyperstar and RASA systems (not in an observatory), the dew shield needs to extend past the cables coming out of the back of the camera. The cables can cause a bunch of reflections.
Hmm interesting. To me, the unflocked one looks much better/smoother/flatter/clearer but only within that circle. The flocked one has another part circle to the left plus that 'bar' on the right is terrible. I'm sure the theory is right though. I'd definitely do the camera as that is much closer to the action. Surely the inside of the Celestron has an anti-reflective coating? I'd expect any half decent OTA to have that. btw, do you have Amazon UK affiliate links - I'm thinking particularly of the mini PC :)
Great timing for me! I'm in the middle of designing a dew shield for my 8" SCT and it included baffles which I planned to paint matte black. This felt paper method I think will do a much better job. Thank you!
At least I would sand the interior surface with some medium grade (say 220 grit) paper, preferably wet or dry used wet. Very low cost and not much work involved, and any remaining reflections would be much more diffused and evenly spread throughout the field.
Hi from Norway. Love you videos. Have you ever presented a schematic or wire diagram of your rig? It would help noobs like me to easier understand how things are connected.
OK, tell me what you think or have observed. I am of the opinion that a dew shield on a hyperstar/RASA combined with a fan cooled camera doesn't need a dew strip - air movement caused by the fan suffices for dew abatement.
It sounds likely, but i've never run mine without a dew strip. i run my cables under the dew strip to hold them in place so they don't move if/when i take the dew shield off. Since it's already in place i might as well have it switched on. I also get far too few cloudless nights (and soon it won'y even get dark enough) for me to potentialy waste one doing testing.
Am wondering if that reflection in both images is really light leaking in from the "drawer window" in the new dew shield as I don't recall you mentioning that issue with your old dew shield.
One day manufactures might pre-flock their OTAs with 'Vantablack' paint. ;-) Until then black felt is the way to go. Having 'flocked' my microphotography image train can attest to the improvement of contrast and removal of spurious reflections. Am on the cusp of doing this with my Maksutov - first the dew shield as a test as you have done then all the internals of the OTA and light baffles too. Re your camera and reflections - maybe all you need is a 'shadowing ring' that is the same diameter as the hyperstar bolt array and would sit like a collar over the camera, therefore not in contact with the camera housing causing heat build up. One thing I'm wondering (separately but related) is how does the hyperstar camera effect IR captures ... would it produce a radiative heat glow in one's IR imaging?
Hi, Cuiv are you planning to publish your dew shield? It looks Nice and very functional I have nearly the same setup and I'm in the process of designing one for myself so some inspiration would help :)
I did the exact same thing yesterday, flocking my 3D printed dew shield for my C8 Hyperstar ! I used the exact same paper as you (bought on Amazon), and also put a nice carbon fiber style sticker all around the exterior of the dew shield for look + maintaining the 2 parts of my dew shield together (I couldn't print a 230mm radius in one part)
10:23 c'est dommage que tu n'as pas pris 2 series de photo le même soir assez proche. Il y a tellement de facteurs qui influencent autrement (qualité du ciel, angle à l'horizon où tu pointes, autres sources de lumière etc). Quand je fais un tel test, je sais que je n'aurais pas la plus belle image possible, du coup je préfère prendre des séries plus courtes (eg 15-30mn chaque) mais qui seront plus facilement comparables. PS: pour la blague par contre, tu m'as fait penser pourquoi mon sony 200-500 avait plus de problèmes de reflets que mon nikon 200-500... Le sony et son par soleil sont blancs, nikon noir :D Je testerai à l'occasion
C'est beaucoup plus important si je compare des filtres et SNR par exemple (j'essaye alors d'avoir juste avant et après le méridien), mais pour des réflexions, ça m'a paru beaucoup moins important (au final les deux périodes étaient quasiment à la même heure d'un soir à l'autre). Et comme plus le temps de pose est long plus les réflexions seront visibles, je voulais maximiser cela! Et wow, des pare-soleil blancs! Intéressant !
I think you could easily paint the drawer's knob with black marker, and maybe doing the same to the camera? I'm very interested on the 3D printed dew shield. I have a C5 with the heater ring, having something like yours where there's a slot to let those cables go through and be able to place the lid would be awesome.
Unfortunately no, sorry... I'm unable to print this design (which isn't mine) for sales, and anyway new tax laws in Japan have made selling stuff occasionally more trouble than it is worth
If you use a flat black or a matted black, the part is not shiny at all. There is no need for flocking. I keep at least one role on hand for astronomy.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Wow, that looks like a nice one. I just ordered a 3D printed dew shield for my Takahashi Epsilon for a reasonable price. The maker recommended anti-reflex paint. Did you look into using that instead of flocking?
I recommend flocking the very front of your dew shield. If any part of your corrector plate is visible at any angle to the 3d printed material, it will result in reflection hitting your sensor. The very top edge of your dew shield, where the lens cap fits in the indent, is still exposed. Flock it :) There is a 3d print filt that is a sleeve that covers the camera perfectly, I printed it, and flicked the sleeve, leaving the camera untouched. This was a BIG Hyperstar helper. Cameras are painted so shiny, that flocking the dew shield only fixes half your reflection problem. Flock the camera! Flock flock flock 😅😊
I painted my Newtonian inside. It is very effective in blocking stray lights from school I have next to my balcony ;) What you have to take into consideration is that matt paints may be kind of like a powder if not applied correctly - test on some similar surface as one you want to paint because you may end up with that powder flying around and sticking to your mirror or corrector plate.
@@studywithme8055 clean the surface and apply according to the paint's instruction. Nothing very special but I used wrong angle when I was applying the spray paint and I had some problems, especially in humid air conditions.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Great, I'll try again. I flocked my Dob & the results were clearly better. Full disclosure, I don't do astrophotography. My OTA is old & it was 'shiny' inside, & it needed to be cleaned. I used Flocking Material from ScopeStuff. It is a black acrylic flocking on a non-woven fabric so water should not be an issue & I've seen very little 'shedding', only during the application. NASA uses this flocking on the WB-57, a high altitude jet used during shuttle launches to gather imagery of the ascent. Unfortunately, it cost almost 5Xs as much, at $39US but I got 12.7% more material. Honestly I was pretty impressed w/ how much darker my views were. BTW, I'm not one of those high-$ snobs, I use a 140 oz plastic bowl, (~$2US) modded & painted flat black as an observing shield. That's great tip for visual observers. Have a GREAT day, Neighbor!
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There is a risk with fabric flocking material. I haven’t flocked any of my scopes. However I’ve owned a couple of William Optics scopes with fabric flocked dew shields and one of the biggest issues with them is that over time fibres from the flocking material have shed onto the objective lenses. Combine that with moisture in the air and it’s ended up with a mess on the objective lenses which can’t be sorted with an air blower. I guess it could be the same for mirror based scopes. I personally would stay away from flocking and use matt black paint to reduce reflections. I certainly wouldn’t use flocking material on the inside of an SCT. I hope this helps. Good luck 👍
Thanks for the tip! I'll make sure to replace the felt if it looks like it's ageing!
depends on the material. when you buy cheap shit, sure......but i use a self-adhesive velour foil from dc-fix, that holds up for years on my scopes. i just use a dust roller from time to time and even after years i have barely any particles on it, after the first usage of this self-adhesive dust roller after application of that foil.
Rather than stick paper to the outside of the camera (I don't feel that much heat dissipates from the outside, rather from the heatvanes ... I think I would make a sleave, or 3D print that slides over the camera, leaving the heatsink openings open.. flock that and see how it goes... then you can slide the flocking flocking on and see the effect without sticky paper all over my nice camera.
That's a great idea! One thing I don't like about sticking paper on the camera will be the increase in the camera diameter... And thus the central obstruction for this particular telescope!
Doing this made a substantial difference in my images taken with a Newtonian reflector. In that case the side of the tube opposite the eyepiece (behind the secondary) is the prime spot that needs it, but the entire tube wasn't a big deal to do.
Oh right that makes sense for Newts!
You can also get Matt 3d printer filament, I used it for a guidescope and it makes a huge difference.
Yep, I realized that later :) but I don't have the energy to print that shield again!
I just went through applying Edmund Optics flocking sheet to the inner tube, inside/outside of the secondary mirror hood, and the central baffle tube on my 6SE. The factory internal coating is like gray paint rather than black! And it's not even fully matte either, its actually somewhat reflective! Just pointing a flashlight inside and taking a look will show you how bad it is.
Rather than taking the corrector plate out on its own, It's far easier to remove the dovetail bar and then remove the 4 screws around the corrector plate end housing which then just slips off the central tube. This lets you remove the entire corrector plate housing with the corrector plate still installed, and they're countersunk screws which pull the end housing back into the exact same rotational/axial location once retightened so you won't lose collimation. Also, because the dovetail bar will only mount in one position where the mounting screw holes are lined up between the rear and front assemblies, you can't screw up the optical alignment during reassembly. You can remove all 4 screws from the corrector plate assembly to get that out of the way, and then remove the 4 screws around the rear mirror assembly as well, which will then let you pull the center tube section away by itself without any risk of damage while working near the mirror.
Looking into the scope from the front after applying the flocking is like looking into a black void with a mirror floating in the bottom lol. It seems to have given me a nice improvement in contrast, though I didn't take any ADU measurements before/after as I was fairly convinced the original coating was so bad it had to be causing contrast issues along with my other problems. If you weren't using the hyperstar, flocking the inside of the baffle tube will cut down on a ton of internal reflections too. This most notably solved the "diamond ring" internal reflection when looking towards a bright star just out of frame. My subs seem to have much less overall field brightness after flocking everything I could, like the objects pop from a now-darker background. When taking some test shots during the day the improvement was pretty significant too, much more contrast rather than a grey washed out photo.
I could probably strip the scope down again in
Thanks for the detailed instructions! This comment section is gold!!
I flocked the inside of an old C8 using ProtoStar's product. I chose that deliberately because it has a plastic backing that wants to lie straight. This meant I could curl it up inside the tube and its trying to spring open would hold it in place. Precise cutting (admittedly requiring much trial and error fittings) helped to reinforce its staying in place. I never did any A-B comparisons but subjectively it felt like it improved contrast. OTOH a car often feels newer after visiting the mechanic even though what was done has nothing to do with anything. ;)
If it felt like refreshing the equipment, then it was worth it!
I put flocking paper in my SCT long ago. To make it removable I attached the paper to a large laminated map I had and cut it into a rectangle that would form a cylinder inside the SCT with seam edges tightly pushing together holding it in place. The trick is getting the edges aligned and shaved down. I did this to my SCT 20 years ago and it is totally removable and still working great. The laminated map tries to straighten itself but it is held back by the interior cylinder of the scope. The cut edges press against each other further helping to keep the shape.
That's a great way of making it removable. Thanks!
Hi Cuiv, Jaime from Chile, I think a good solution and reversible could be to get a radiography, large one, measure the perimeter of the inside of your c6 and cuttings to the proper depth, then flocking the radiography and paste with a masking tape from outside to make a tube which can be place inside the telescope tube. This way is easy and if you don't like the result, you just remove the "flocking tube".
Greetings from "BelloCielo" backyard observatory.
That's a cool idea too, thank you!
I flocked the inside of my homemade 6" F8 newtonian yrs ago (40?)... It was extremely hard to lay the paper down and get it aligned properly in 4 feet of tubing. It has overlapping seams and some bubbles where the paper did not contact the tube. If I had to do it over I would have sprayed it with flat black paint. I noticed the other day that some of the edges have started to come up as the adhesive has dried. I have been thinking of putting the tube in a long tray, like a section of gutter, and soaking it in paint thinner to dissolve the rest of the adhesive and then I will just paint it like I should have done.
Yeah, inside the tube I'd be a bit wary... The dew shield is far safer :)
You spoke about heat dissipation, but I think it would be okay as long as the ventilation is clear for the heatsink on the camera, PLUS it could add a minor amount of insulation to keep the camera from being affected by outside temperature fluctuations. It probably wouldn't change much, but it could be worth testing at the very least, I imagine!
Thanks! Another thing I'm wary about is adding a couple mm to the central obstruction while doing so!
@Cuiv, The Lazy Geek well it would certainly be an interesting test in any case! Would it be worth the cost of a few mm of obstruction to achieve less reflective light, you think? I know every spare mm is precious when you have that big of a camera, but maybe 5mm max would be something to consider!
I flocked my C5 a few years ago... it is a remarkable improvement on just a painted tube assembly.
Internal use of the adhesive flocking on the SCT I’d worry about outgassing from the adhesive fogging the optics. Flocking your camera sounds like a good direction, but if it cools by radiant transfer, that might be a problem - of course don’t cover any vents. Because both images have that strong fogging to the lower right there is something you’re missing… the drawer knob might be the best culprit. Good results. Thanks for sharing.
Yep, the drawer knob is next! Thank you!
Cuiv, I just lined the inside of my Astrozap dew shield with the same very light felt paper that you used which I already had. The only trouble that had installing it was that it is so non-reflective that even with a bright light I had a hard time seeing what is was doing! I have used this same felt paper on other objects on my scope that gets hot in Idaho summers and had no trouble with it coming up. I'm looking forward to a clear sky to try it.
Hope it works well for you!
Flocking undoubtedly improves contrast. In my experience it’s less noticeable in refractors. I wouldn’t bother on high end scopes that have baffles. It’s almost mandatory on newtonian and catadioptric systems.
absolutely loving these recent tutorial / exepriment videos Cuiv. Keep them coming as they are super interesting and informative.
Thanks so much Andrew!! Will do :-)
You should have tried the Blackest Black paint ;)
I looked at it! Then looked at price and shipping and.... No :p
If the camera body itself gets hot (ie the body is a heatsink), then maybe flocking it won't be a good idea. Otherwise (it all the heat is dealt with via the vents) then sure why not right?
You know what else is reflective? The push-pull bolts of the Hyperstar. Would it be possible to create a very thin, double-flocked (both inside and outside diameter) shroud that won't add to your central obstruction? Finding an attachment point might be tricky though; maybe via double-sided tape around the body? The white nylon washers complicates it since it's jutting 1mm away from the thread.
Huh - I wonder if there are replacement black anodized bolts and black nylon washers in the market. You're in Tokyo after all, a hotspot for all hobbies out there. Then just hit those black bolts with a matte topcoat spray paint for gunpla. While unattached to the OTA of course XD The matte topcoat trick might also work for the filter drawer knob, if you can remove it from the drawer itself.
That's a good point - maybe I should just paint those things. But we'd be getting into the lower ROI operations...
@@CuivTheLazyGeek makes sense; if doing something on the drawer knob solves that weird reflection right? If that still doesn't work, I guess finding+buying the anodized bolts and black washers now and putting a note on their packaging to spray them with gunpla matte topcoat (so you don't forget) might be something to consider, given it is inevitable that you'd have to collimate the scope again in the near future eg to clean it, etc.
Another brilliant video, and I like the colour of your hoodie so just ordered one from the Aussie store. Keep up the great work
Thanks! I hope you enjoy the hoodie!
@Cuiv. $8 ?!?!? What, are you made of money?!?!? I cut up an old wetsuit and used the black neoprene that I glued to the inside of a cut up beer can to make a dew shield. It works very well.
Yeah it was an extravagant expense :)
I did it on my Celestron 8SE a few years ago. I was nervous giving it a whirl but it’s not as difficult as u may think. Cut it to rough size (Bit bigger) of what u need. Get it in place then peel the backing slowly working your way around. Cut your overlap and done. I never did a before and after to see if results were better but I know I couldn’t make it worse😂. Glad I did it and looks great. I also did my Celestron dew shield.
Well done on your 8SE :-) I'll probably abstain for now! :D
Try printing a baffle for the camera. It should keep glancing light reflections from going directly into the corrector. Combined with a black material, whether matte paint or flocking material, you'll bring down the brightness of that surface. It may also prevent reflections off the knob of the filter drawer.
I did some in my Newtonian. For your camera you might want to consider some matt black vinyl. That will dissipate heat and give you the improvement your looking for.
Thanks!
One thing to be careful about with flocking material is the bazillion little fibers which can come loose. I had some bad quality flocking in a telescope cap and it would always deposit lots of tiny hairs on the glass. Might help blow/vacuum the material before applying it.
Thanks for the tips! I'll definitely check how it holds up, although I assume it can't be worse than the Japanese Cyprus pollen!
I've flocked 3 telescopes 2 Newtonians & a RASA 11, the RASA 11 was done out of necessity due to the water damage it suffered with & the pain used being damaged & in some places washed away. As for the 8" Newtonian if there was a difference it was very minor, as for the RASA well that might have to be done again as the felt like what you used didn't stick inside particularly well, it seems ok for now but I'll be keeping an eye on things. I don't think I'd want to flock a camera if I'm honest maybe try some of the felt but instead of sticking it cut it & hold it in place with a rubber band & try a test run that way you could determine if the camera itself is causing reflections, one thing I have done to my camera is put tape over the LED's not sure if its made a difference to the RASA but it definitely helped with doing some dark frames.
Oh the LEDs on the camera have long been taped over - that made a huge difference, even with just light frames!
I have recently had great success by painting the inside of 3D printed dew shields and lens hoods (like for the Dwarf II) with Musou Blackest Black, non-reflective, water-based acrylic paint (available on Amazon for ~$25 per 100ml bottle). The Musou Blackest Black is specifically recommended for application to plastic surfaces. I used an airbrush to apply a thin coat of the paint to matte black PLA 3D printed parts but the paint can also be applied with a brush. They are so non-reflective now that it is sometimes difficult to visually discern the surface at all. By using the paint, I am not adding any appreciable weight and I avoid all of the potential problems with the fibers that can exist with many black felt adhesive papers. Of course, I don't think I would try spraying any paint inside my OTA under the corrector plate without somehow protecting all of the optics. BTW... I originally did flocking of the inside of telescopes more than 50 years ago by applying a coating of adhesive to the inside of the tube and then dusting the adhesive with black flocking powder or fibers. That was a real mess.
Great, was almost going to buy the flocking material. Is there also a spray paint version of these blacks? That would cut out a lot of time. Lastly did you find any problems with paint chipping/falling off after some time? Appreciate your answer
Flocking causes the light to go in different directions so it would seem to be a smearing approach whereas a baffled dew tube in effect reflects the light back up the tube.
My results with baffled dew tubes have been very encouraging and as I have mentioned before the fact is the Hubble Space Telescope uses the baffling and although I have not found their notes as to why I expect it was a matter that they deeply looked into before going with such an approach...I dont know how one could turn up their notes but one could expect they may have quantified the improvement.
I have all the materials to make a baffled dew tube for my RASA 11 but unfortunately my cancer is sidlining me, I am not complaining just giving a reason why it is not getting done ( along with other stuff) but I lost three weeks having more radiation treatment and three weeks is not easy to make up for an old guy like me...I have an Askar 130 on its way and I will probably build a baffled dew tube for it first...and at some point quantify the improvement...I am thinking about how to " flock" the camera in effect and I tend to think that small baffles on the camera may work ... to do this perhaps use a thin metal jacket with rings every mm that are only mm high...this way I could see the jacket and rings able to dissipate heat efficiently...
OK it's over kill but I love over kill...
I love all your videos and thank you for doing such a great job bringing astrophotography to the world.
I'll have to see if I can design a baffle inside for the dew shield :)
Flocking doesn't reflect the light in random directions, it absorbs visible light and reemits it as infrared.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Is the dew shield design available somewhere? Nevermind saw your other comments, maybe a good idea if you could put the form in the links or pin it, would spare you a lot of time responding to people.
You always bring up some great ideas Quiv, well I did flock my dew shield about three weeks ago but didn't have the change to test it yet due to very bad weather in our region.
I did it on an astrozap dew shield for my edge HD 8, I also used flocking paper but I bought it on a roll of about 1meter wide and 2 meters long
It's as you say not easy, but I had it perfect in one try. But I wouldn't trust it to do the inside of my edge ...
About the camera, I don't know if it would make any change in your setup because if it would then you would see the reflection also after you flocked your dew shield.
At your setup I would look and search where those lines come from
Thanks for the advice Siegfried! I really hope you get clear skies soon!!
I would double the length of the dew shield. This will significantly decrease the amount of stray light coming in the first place.
But at the cost of more wind sensitivity!! It's a tough choice!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I haven't measured this specifically, but my guess would be that the increase in wind sensitivity due to this additional area would be much less than the improvement from stray light reduction. Especially as you have a sturdy mount. You can always mitigate wind in other ways too.
I do leather work, mostly belts and custom bags.
I make my own dew shields out of 3mm thick vegetable tanned leather, cut it to size dampen it to 75% saturation and tool a decorative border along the edges. Shape it into a cylinder shape and let dry, it keeps its the shape after drying. I use Velcro or brass snaps to fasten it.
After it is done I then dye the inside of the shield black and since the flesh side of leather is like suede it absorbs light as well as black velvet does. The outside I dye in a variety of ways. I then seal the leather with an acrylic satin finish on the inside and possibly a gloss finish on the outside that waterproofs it.
I was surprised at how many people wanted me to make them a dew shield for their SCT/MCTs with matching carry bags. One lady asked if I could put constellations on it with little stars (I did).
Now those sound like amazing dew shields!!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Ought to see my custom belts. Made one with 30 roses carved into the leather.
Cuiv, can you take a sky flat just to make sure the issue is not with your flat panel? You can also compare the panel flat to your sky flat to see it there are any differences.
Calibrated frames don't show any artifacts unless the moon is out and either super bright or relatively close to the target, so I don't think it would be the flat panel! I'll see what sky flats could teach me though
@@CuivTheLazyGeek the moon can cause these issue for sure but I thought you had these types of gradients in other images from other videos which was why I suggested sky flats as a try to narrow down the problem. I never had flat issues with my rasa 8 and hyperstar 11 in my bortle8 skies even on bright moon nights so something else could be causing your bad gradient in your final stack. 2 days ago I was shooting M101 and the moon was behind the scope so I know light was not getting directly in the dew sheild. I didn't see any strange gradients in the final stack caused by the moon light sky either. Sorry Cuiv, just trying to brain storm this for ya, lol. I hope you get this sorted. Question, do you think you are getting light leaks from the uniform spacing you did on your hyperstar collimation? I would have to go look at mine but I assume they have a light block in the design.
Excellent project, Cuiv! -- I agree with you about *not* flocking the inside of the OTA. Imagine the complications if it ever got wet inside there again (rain, dew, etc.), with felt soaked, adhesive infused precipitation getting all over the primary mirror and inside of the corrector plate. It sounds like a nightmare to me. I would avoid that like the plague. It should work great on the dew shield though. Very nice project and video!
If you want try blacking out your camera I would recommend a paint called black 3.0 it's called the blackest paint in the world. It would be good for inside the telescope tube as well.
Awesome! Can you put a link to the 3D printed dew shield?
In the earlier video he mentioned that the creator of the dew shield will sell the sty file.
The creator of that design has an interest form here: forms.gle/a6vqKjWgB5QWVMXt5
I've done the inside small refractors and it helped contrast as well as ghost flares tremendously. I understand the hesitancy of dealing with the inside of SCTs and around mirrors. The question is how does the inside look now.
It pays to look for 'shine everywhere. I found the a focuser the was smooth and shiny. It stuck out because everything and it was baffle threaded.
But caution to those going inside their scopes. There's a lot you can mess up if you're not careful. I like using yoga mat material for dew shields. The 3D print looks good. You could just print groves on the inside of it. How big can you go on your printer 😅?
Take care!
A fun project! I noticed that the screw on the filter drawer looks quite reflective; have you thought about painting that matte black, or maybe even just removing it? On mine I find that I can remove the drawer by its edges instead of having to use the screw. Perhaps that is contributing to the corner reflection that you are seeing.
Yep, thinking about it!
You should reprint a second due shield and run the experiment on the same night comparing images with the flocked dew shield and the naked one. It would remove many of the variables you encountered.
Have you considered getting some Vanta Black paint to cover the camera and shield. I have not tried it but I believe that one of the drawback of Vanta Black is its tendency to scratch easily. I am not sure if a coat of matt clear will help keeping it in tack.
I wouldn't think it would affect the cooling system as long as the venting has flow. The vent baffles are dark and don't look too reflective as the cyan base coating does.
Multiple slicing of the the felt, post fitment, with a sharp blade eliminates the risk of lifting particularly on small aperture scopes...
I think you should paint your camera matt black.
That's something I've considered indeed!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Musuo black. Absorbs 99.4%. Insanely black.
I’d be interested to see if covering the filter access hole with flock and cutting a simple cross slit to push the filter through instead of flocking the sliding draw? This might get rid of that last reflection in the flats.
I saw that kind of reflection with my old dew shield as well, so likely not this!
Interesting comparison. It seems that you have a source of reflections, so the flocking seems that it makes it more apparent.
So, you would want to do some detective work. Even black plastic can be reflective - try to shine a light into your system and check for reflections and highlights in plastic parts.
Most probably, your camera body is shining (I would use matte black paint in order to reduce it, it should not cause a trouble with heat transfer).
I had heard that the interior of an SCT isn’t as prone to internal reflection as a Newtonian, so flocking won’t get you much back. Your instinct about flocking the dew shield and other shiny bits is likely to bring you some results. Interesting as alway Cuiv.
Thank you!
Great job, thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching!
ESA faced stray light issues with Gaia and Euclid space telescopes. If you want good observations or photos use flocking. I tried for light baffles, but the calculator says that my 8" tube needs only one light baffle and I got it from Backyard Universe with the new spider.
Hi Cuiv, today I will not troll, jajaja, I will say that I have flocked my SC6 and is a piece of cake, I know you don't ask for help so, its just removing the dovetail screws and the four phillips screws, and that removes the steel ring so collimation is retained, you flock it and close it up, in two hours if you are really slow you are done, do it, no fear!
My main OTA is a home-made 150mm f8 achromat refractor. I used adhesive and flocking powder inside all the tubing, including the focuser. I also want to do some knife edge baffles, but not got round to it yet. When you mentioned the Peltier cooler, it made me wonder if the warm air flow off the element doesn't cause heat eddies within the dew shield, and cause distortion?
It's possible - but then I'm already in Tokyo (with terribly seeing) on a rooftop balcony. So I don't think it makes a difference for me :)
instantly my brain went for black 2.0 😁
you can prob make a "cap" with having black material on, but have cutouts for the heat from the fan area should not affect the camera temp.
Black 3.0 is quite expensive to get in Japan, but I'll look into it :)
Great idea.
For the camera, what about some kind of spray? Maybe not paint specifically but similar to a flex seal type matte spray?
Some disassembly required
I'll have to think of possibilities:-)
Great video Cuiv. I designed and 3d printed a similar dew shield to yours for my edgeHD8 with a hyperstar. I have several revisions with different features. Some have built-in curved wire guides, some have the wire guides as an optional piece. I also have a cap with a built-in bahtinov mask. I did design in baffle rings to do the flocking -- I haven't tried them yet though. I either use flat black filament or flat spray paint to reduce reflections. My design is strong so I am able to keep the hyperstar installed while I store it away with the dew shield attached.
That sounds like an excellent design! I'd be very curious about how effective the baffles will be!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Thanks! I can't seem to include a link to the details. You can find my journal including links to the files with google by searching for "astropifi blog" Details in an older post titled "Hyperstar!"
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I also purchased some "Black 2.0" paint that is supposed to be one of the most "black" paints possible. I was going to use it but heard that it flakes off sometimes so I chickened out!
@jamieamendolagine205, would you mind sharing your design? I'm planning on drawing something similar up for a 150mm newtonian. I don't know where Cuiv got this design from but it's cool and I want something similar :)
Hi Cuiv, we used to get "Blackboard paint" in the UK - yes I'm old enough to remember 'chalk' & blackboards - IIRC this was a thick non toxic strongly matt paint, it could be useful for this application,esp for awkward ,hard to do, areas where the flocking would be a PITA to apply, either that or Tamaya used to do a flat black paint for models used for radar domes on aircraft. Either that or how about some of the "ultra black" paints... Great vid as always
One thing to be wary of is getting good adhesion to the interior surface. Although I took great care when preparing the plastic surface of my homemade 6” reflector, I was plagued with small flecks of the blackboard paint landing on the mirror :( There was no internet at the time, so advice was scarce, and maybe today there are better preparation techniques nowadays.
@@StepDub try mixing in a very small amount of PVA glue to add elasticity
@@IMCDundee Sound advice. That particular scope,however is a long time gone. At the time it was an affordable way into astronomical tourism, but if I were getting back into the hobby today, I would buy rather than build at today’s prices.
Black 3.0 paint works awesome on my 3d printed shield, I'd send you a picture but I can't upload to here...happy to email
That's great to know! That paint is expensive to get in Japan!!
Glad you tried it and it worked out! Has the file for that dewshield been released?
Here's the interest form from the designer! forms.gle/a6vqKjWgB5QWVMXt5
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Thanks, also it's quite easy to do the inside of the tube if you want, just take off the front and rear cells with the 4 screws. I did mine like that and when reassembling the collimation didn't change.
How about the super reflective green camera? Are you planning to change it to black too?
Edit.. I wrote this comment before finishing the video😅
Something I've heard about flocking paper is that it's a "furry time bomb". At some point the velvet hairs on the paper will start to fall off and can be a pain to remove. With removable things like a dew shield is fine, I've seen people line the inside of their reflectors with it, only for it to start shedding 10 years into the future.
Good point - glad I stopped at the lens hood!!
Interesting, maybe could replace it every 8 years or so? It's cheap and easy to do. Matt black paint could work instead.
@@ishanr8697 I think paint is the best way to go for a long term solution. My understanding is ultra flat black spray paints are the best with a few caveats. There are paints “blacker” out there (that also absorb IR), but they are also harder to apply and way more expensive than spray paint.
Now I’ve not done this, though I really want to try it in the future, but one solution to flocking is to use sand. Coat the inside of the OTA with a spray adhesive, then dump a bunch of fine grain sand inside the tube and roll the tube until it's covered in sand. Then take the spray paint and paint over the sand. The fine sand grains act the same way as the velvet should, scattering the light in random directions, and the flat black paint absorbs most of the incident stray light. I think Celestron use to do this in the 90’s, but I don’t see anyone do it anymore. Maybe they found this also has a longevity issue?
I am wondering if your dew shield is 3-5 (maybe more) cm too short. For Hyperstar and RASA systems (not in an observatory), the dew shield needs to extend past the cables coming out of the back of the camera. The cables can cause a bunch of reflections.
Thanks for the tip! The shield does extent one cm past the cables, but I could make it longer indeed!
excellent encore...!
Merci!
Hmm interesting. To me, the unflocked one looks much better/smoother/flatter/clearer but only within that circle. The flocked one has another part circle to the left plus that 'bar' on the right is terrible. I'm sure the theory is right though. I'd definitely do the camera as that is much closer to the action. Surely the inside of the Celestron has an anti-reflective coating? I'd expect any half decent OTA to have that.
btw, do you have Amazon UK affiliate links - I'm thinking particularly of the mini PC :)
Interesting analysis!
Thanks for asking on the Amazon UK affiliate links!! I currently don't have any, sorry :-(
Great timing for me! I'm in the middle of designing a dew shield for my 8" SCT and it included baffles which I planned to paint matte black. This felt paper method I think will do a much better job. Thank you!
Ooh but baffles could be amazing as well!
Cuiv, very timely video...could you post your 3d printer file for the dew shield? Thanks.
It's not my design! A subscriber made it he has an interest form here: forms.gle/a6vqKjWgB5QWVMXt5
Where can one buy the STL for the shield?
Just wondering if the straight line is some interference from your filter slider
Like from the knob that lets me take it in and out? That's a possibility for sure...
@@CuivTheLazyGeek yep it may have some weird reflections, the only reason I suspect this is due to the localized nature of the reflection
Do you have stl files for your 150 newtonian 3d printed dew shield
At least I would sand the interior surface with some medium grade (say 220 grit) paper, preferably wet or dry used wet. Very low cost and not much work involved, and any remaining reflections would be much more diffused and evenly spread throughout the field.
That's a great idea as well...
Rustoleum Camouflage Ultraflat black worked well for me when I needed a flat paint. Otherwise, the flocking paper is great.❤
Thank you!
“Astrophotography tax” lol 😂
This tax is more likely in Canada where we have a fascist government
😁
Hi from Norway. Love you videos. Have you ever presented a schematic or wire diagram of your rig? It would help noobs like me to easier understand how things are connected.
I'll think about this :)
OK, tell me what you think or have observed. I am of the opinion that a dew shield on a hyperstar/RASA combined with a fan cooled camera doesn't need a dew strip - air movement caused by the fan suffices for dew abatement.
It sounds likely, but i've never run mine without a dew strip. i run my cables under the dew strip to hold them in place so they don't move if/when i take the dew shield off. Since it's already in place i might as well have it switched on. I also get far too few cloudless nights (and soon it won'y even get dark enough) for me to potentialy waste one doing testing.
I haven't used the scope over wet grass to be able to have a proper opinion - I'd still have a dew band just in case!
I flocked the inside all my telescope including the draw tube on the focuser, anything including spacers inside.
Am wondering if that reflection in both images is really light leaking in from the "drawer window" in the new dew shield as I don't recall you mentioning that issue with your old dew shield.
It was also there with the old dew shield :-) especially with the felt paper the drawer doesn't let any light through !
Thanks ❤
One day manufactures might pre-flock their OTAs with 'Vantablack' paint. ;-) Until then black felt is the way to go. Having 'flocked' my microphotography image train can attest to the improvement of contrast and removal of spurious reflections. Am on the cusp of doing this with my Maksutov - first the dew shield as a test as you have done then all the internals of the OTA and light baffles too. Re your camera and reflections - maybe all you need is a 'shadowing ring' that is the same diameter as the hyperstar bolt array and would sit like a collar over the camera, therefore not in contact with the camera housing causing heat build up. One thing I'm wondering (separately but related) is how does the hyperstar camera effect IR captures ... would it produce a radiative heat glow in one's IR imaging?
I wish they'd all use Black 3.0 or preflock their scopes! And good point on IR imaging... I have no idea!
Hi, Cuiv are you planning to publish your dew shield? It looks Nice and very functional I have nearly the same setup and I'm in the process of designing one for myself so some inspiration would help :)
It's not mine! One of my subscribers designed it and he has an interest form here:
forms.gle/a6vqKjWgB5QWVMXt5
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Thanks, I am interested indeed :)
Tnx
I did the exact same thing yesterday, flocking my 3D printed dew shield for my C8 Hyperstar ! I used the exact same paper as you (bought on Amazon), and also put a nice carbon fiber style sticker all around the exterior of the dew shield for look + maintaining the 2 parts of my dew shield together (I couldn't print a 230mm radius in one part)
Sounds excellent!!
10:23 c'est dommage que tu n'as pas pris 2 series de photo le même soir assez proche. Il y a tellement de facteurs qui influencent autrement (qualité du ciel, angle à l'horizon où tu pointes, autres sources de lumière etc). Quand je fais un tel test, je sais que je n'aurais pas la plus belle image possible, du coup je préfère prendre des séries plus courtes (eg 15-30mn chaque) mais qui seront plus facilement comparables.
PS: pour la blague par contre, tu m'as fait penser pourquoi mon sony 200-500 avait plus de problèmes de reflets que mon nikon 200-500... Le sony et son par soleil sont blancs, nikon noir :D Je testerai à l'occasion
C'est beaucoup plus important si je compare des filtres et SNR par exemple (j'essaye alors d'avoir juste avant et après le méridien), mais pour des réflexions, ça m'a paru beaucoup moins important (au final les deux périodes étaient quasiment à la même heure d'un soir à l'autre). Et comme plus le temps de pose est long plus les réflexions seront visibles, je voulais maximiser cela!
Et wow, des pare-soleil blancs! Intéressant !
@@CuivTheLazyGeek pas faux ! bref, j'ai quelques réflexions à chasser aussi à l'occasion mais j'ai eu la flemme.. donc kudos pour tenter ^^
I think you could easily paint the drawer's knob with black marker, and maybe doing the same to the camera? I'm very interested on the 3D printed dew shield. I have a C5 with the heater ring, having something like yours where there's a slot to let those cables go through and be able to place the lid would be awesome.
The designer has an interest form here: forms.gle/a6vqKjWgB5QWVMXt5
Why dont you get some Black 2.0 or 3.0 paint. Then do the camera and knob with it.
It was expensive in Japan :/
Can I buy a 3D printed dew shield from you?
Unfortunately no, sorry... I'm unable to print this design (which isn't mine) for sales, and anyway new tax laws in Japan have made selling stuff occasionally more trouble than it is worth
If you use a flat black or a matted black, the part is not shiny at all. There is no need for flocking. I keep at least one role on hand for astronomy.
All the matte rolls I found had pretty bad reviews... :-( at least on Amazon Japan
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Try Prusament Matte Black- Great!
Durable felt or other micro fibers are better than painting or coating the inner tube or d shield. They are good dust collectors. Micro baffles
What 3D printer do you use?
Prusa MK3S+!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Wow, that looks like a nice one. I just ordered a 3D printed dew shield for my Takahashi Epsilon for a reasonable price. The maker recommended anti-reflex paint. Did you look into using that instead of flocking?
TH-cam: He is saying Flocking.
Do not de-monetize.
I hope TH-cam understood - for now it's still monetized :D
That light pollution! WOW. Bortle 7 looks like dark skies compared to Bortle 9. Did you have the same terrible background with Vixen Newton?
Yep, always the same background, Tokyo is fun!
I recommend flocking the very front of your dew shield. If any part of your corrector plate is visible at any angle to the 3d printed material, it will result in reflection hitting your sensor. The very top edge of your dew shield, where the lens cap fits in the indent, is still exposed. Flock it :)
There is a 3d print filt that is a sleeve that covers the camera perfectly, I printed it, and flicked the sleeve, leaving the camera untouched. This was a BIG Hyperstar helper. Cameras are painted so shiny, that flocking the dew shield only fixes half your reflection problem. Flock the camera! Flock flock flock 😅😊
Oh the very front of the dew shield was also flocked! And understood on the camera :-)
Grab sheet of 150 grit paper, sand the inner surface, then spray with flat black paint. Done in 5 minutes.
That should work too :)
I painted my Newtonian inside. It is very effective in blocking stray lights from school I have next to my balcony ;) What you have to take into consideration is that matt paints may be kind of like a powder if not applied correctly - test on some similar surface as one you want to paint because you may end up with that powder flying around and sticking to your mirror or corrector plate.
Good to know on this paints thank you!
How do you apply it correctly if I may ask?
@@studywithme8055 clean the surface and apply according to the paint's instruction. Nothing very special but I used wrong angle when I was applying the spray paint and I had some problems, especially in humid air conditions.
Ohh that i thought something else 😁
For a moment I thought you said the F word. 😂 Great video, informative as always 👍
Sorry!:)
Make sure you clean the surface with 99% alcohol before putting the flocking paper down.
Also good to do a practice run on a sonotube/cardboard tube of similar size.
Thanks for the tip!!
Keeping a straight face watching this video is very hard 😅
I achieved my main goal to make everyone cringe then 😁
TEST!, TESTING!, 1, 2, 3, TESTING!
Posted TWICE, both gone.
So this test.
I see this one!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek
Great, I'll try again.
I flocked my Dob & the results were clearly better.
Full disclosure, I don't do astrophotography.
My OTA is old & it was 'shiny' inside, & it needed to be cleaned.
I used Flocking Material from ScopeStuff.
It is a black acrylic flocking on a non-woven fabric so water should not be an issue & I've seen very little 'shedding', only during the application.
NASA uses this flocking on the WB-57, a high altitude jet used during shuttle launches to gather imagery of the ascent.
Unfortunately, it cost almost 5Xs as much, at $39US but I got 12.7% more material.
Honestly I was pretty impressed w/ how much darker my views were.
BTW, I'm not one of those high-$ snobs, I use a 140 oz plastic bowl, (~$2US) modded & painted flat black as an observing shield.
That's great tip for visual observers.
Have a GREAT day, Neighbor!
Niiice
AP Tax - ha-ha-ha
👍👍
It is reflective but...
...it's ribbed.
So the light is actually reflected back out of the dew shield, not bounced down it into the sensor.
Ideally that'd be the case, but these aren't proper baffles - the light can get bounced about randomly...
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I had a further think and it's not really ribbed, is it, because the layer edges have a curved profile?
Man, you kind of need to "Beep" your audio if your going to repeat the work "Flocking" like that...It is not office safe...
No way! I like to make everyone cringe!