Why don't I use the ASIAIR? Simple reason - and complex reasons!
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Mr. Cuiv, with respect, the reason I watch your videos, is simple - YOU ARE HONEST AND CALL IT AS YOU SEE/EXPERIENCE IT. I'm old, I don't have millions of disposable dollars to WASTE on equipment from reviewers who misrepresent that equipment. Therefore, I depend on your honesty, as I purchase based on your honest reviews. To me, this is extremely valuable. Other reviewers, receive free equipment (and lots of it), and one fellow, reviewed a piece of equipment from one manufacturer - which I also own, and he states that it's great, and I can tell you it's CRAP - total CRAP. He's a paid stooge to the manufacturer who keeps him supplied and stocked with FREE equipment. So, please continue with your HONEST down to earth, real reviews. I thank you. YF. JB.
Thanks Jonathan! I really try to be honest, and I don't rely on money from manufacturers! Of course this video only presents my own reasons for not using the ASIAir, and it does work great for a lot of people - but only my point of view here :)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek i am sure that someone famous once said "do or do not, there is no try".
This! 🙌
Cuiv, always love your videos. I’m a devotee of ASIAIR Plus. I appreciate your honest and objective assessment. The way I see it there are two classes of astro-imagers, tech savvy people like you and totally tech-challenged people like me. I’m sure you’ll appreciate the fact that, for me, if it weren’t for the ASIAIR, I would have given up this hobby long ago. And for me, because of the AIR I can do things that I only dreamt of in the 90’s. It really feels like cheating, LOL. I wish I had your grasp of the tech side of all of this, but like I said, that will never happen (truly, I am a perpetual bumbler-stumbler with all this). ASIAIR has been a tonic to my previous frustrations and I’m delighted that you can compare NINA with the AIR and not make me feel any less competent. Keep up the great work and once again, welcome back to making your valuable videos.
I couldn’t agree more, if it wasn’t for the ASIAIR I would have given up, I even stack with it, it’s the total package for me.
Yep. I have laptops. I run NINA. I've got a NUC. I've got another PI running Stellarmate.
The ASIAIR's ease of use and user friendliness really keeps me going back to it more often than not.
I have been forced to learn NINA, since I have no ZWO equipment. I have started from Sharcap and manual capturing. Then, switched to NINA for automation. I am still learning NINA, but it is only way.
I couldn't agree more too! After 12 hour of constrction work there's nothing better than opening my Observatory, turn on everything in 10 minutes, let the Asiair plus do it's thing all night long and next day you have hours of data in your sd card. Thank you Asiair plus!
I'm extremely tech-savvy (running Linux servers etc. for 25 years now and not afraid of soldering irons)... still I'm using the ASIAIR. Why? Because I don't want to have to deal with tech crap. :)
When I started into AP a couple years ago, the ASIAIR was a life-saver. I had too many learning curves (mount, camera, computer, software - not to mention the new field of astronomy) and the ASIAIR flattened several of the hills for me. It was very helpful. I've since left it. Why? The precipitating incident was a problem with my guiding: random sharp DEC spikes that caused me to throw out 1/3 of my subs each night of imaging. Solving that problem required me to go through every part of my setup in careful detail. When I got to the guiding, the ASIAIR became a roadblock rather than a help because it didn't give the logs and analysis tools for guiding that were available in the full PHD2 program. To gain that, I had to find a way to connect a windows computer to my setup. So I mounted a Mele Q2 on my scope, loaded NINA and PHD2, and worked through the guiding assistant to locate the problem and resolve it. Along the way I discovered the expanded capabilities of NINA, the full PHD2, the Advanced Sequencer, The Plug_Ins, etc. My ASIAIR is in a closet, ready for back-up duty if needed. I was glad for its help along the way, and am even more happy with my current setup and its enhanced capabilities.
That's really a good progression - and yes the ASIAIR has really such strengths as to make everything simpler when people are struggling - in the end it's whatever works for each at that particular moment in time :)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I should have added, Cuiv, that it was your very good videos on NINA and the Mile Q2 that helped me make the jump. *Thanks* for what you do!!
I fully agree with your position. Manufacturers that monopolize their products always limit their market. Some understand this, most fall into the trap of their greed. Greed is always limited development. ZWO could turn their ASI AIR product into a separate universal tool for managing any setup and only benefit from it. I would gladly purchase a specialized astro minicomputer and would not mess with crutches in the form of minicomputers, I think there are more than one thousand people like me in the World. But the ZWO are large - they "know better"
@tradde11 It would be a different product, like a cross-platform device for astro setups. I do not see any problems with software maintenance of devices from different manufacturers. The same NINA or APT perfectly supports different manufacturers, this is not a problem now.
@tradde11 The world is beautiful with its diversity, who prevents ZWO from leaving Linux for a cross-platform concept?
Absolutely Cuiv! I’ve used Nina for a shot time myself. Asiair gave me that preference. More power to your videos👍🏼
Agree with you 100% Cuiv. Choice , freedom and openness are so important. And the Nina advanced sequencer is just amazing!
The NINA advanced sequencer is just unique and amazing. I think many are scared of it and I understand the feeling, but man is it amazing!
As always! You are one of the best!
I use NINA and the ASIAIR, they are both great in their own respects. There have been some very nice enhancements in the latest firmware for the ASIAIR and I believe it will only continue to get better in time. Thanks for another great video and Clear Skies!
Completely agree! In the end, whatever works!
Same, I use NINA to drive my dual telescope rig on a permanent pier, and I use the ASIAIR for a small portable RedCat 51 rig.
I find it comforting to hear that I'm not the only one who lives with extended periods of crappy weather...chin up lad, there's bound to be a good night eventually.
Yep, waiting for that good night!
Hi Cuiv. I started astrophotography in 2021 and, thanks to your excellent videos, I am now able to sleep all night long while my little setup works outside imaging several targets. My cameras and my auto focuser are all red and I’m happy with them. But I agree 100% with your philosophy and I will definitively stay with my mini PC and with N.I.N.A. which is such a wonderful piece of software for the lazy/sleeply/chilly geeks. Good to see you back Cuiv. You’re the busiest lazy geek on this earth !
Thanks Daniel and glad my videos were useful!!
Nice video. You are clear and concise. Frank and honest.
Thanks John!
Your videos are a breath of fresh air with your honest opinions and deep knowledge of astrophotography. It seems like a lot of astro channels lose their integrity once they get a lot of followers and start trying to make money from it.
Anyways, I've got the best of both...I use the ASIAIR plus on one rig and a mini pc/nina(which I'm still learning) on the other.
The air is easy to get going and gives consistent results while I tweak and get the other system tuned up. I had contemplated getting another air but have since decided not to.
Thanks for this Kevin! I really do my best to keep my integrity! And yeah I have a day job so I'm not desperate for sponsorship money :)
Glad the ASIAir works for you! In the end, it's whatever works :)
I'm very grateful for the honesty and forthrightness in your videos, Cuiv. I really love the ASIAir (and the rest of the ZWO stuff I HAVE to use 🙃), but I genuinely value your very informed and thoughtful opinions. In truth, I really don't like closed ecosystem products like the ZWO products, Apple products, etc., but I found the ZWO equipment so dependable and the integration of it all so easy, I was hooked. And as a relative newcomer to astrophotography, it made things so much easier. But as I get more experience (and pay off everything I've bought so far!), perhaps I'll think about branching out and I'm sure I'll come back to rewatch your video. Thanks again for the great information and different perspective!
In the end, it's whatever works for you! If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
I agree 100%. I have a similar PC and set up to yours and the flexibility a mini pc brings to the table ellipses the ASIAIR.
In the end it's all about what works best for each!
Hello Cuiv thank you for this video. I was an asiair user for many years and was used during my first experiences with astrophotography I then upgraded my setup to a cem 70 and an 8 inch sct and started having lots of guiding issues since I never had an issue with my gem 45 and asiair I thought I just had a lemmon. So I sent back to ioptron they looked at it and said nothing wrong with the mount so I decided to con3ct to a laptop to diagnose and just by connecting and using guiding assistant the fixed all issues ith out anyother intervention I went from consistent 1.5 rms guiding to now .5 to .8 guiding. What's more is I tried to use nina and am now hooked such a powerful peice of software. Over the past 2 weeks I sold my asiair and now have a mele quieter 3 on the way to replace the asiair and the laptop. Anyway I appreciate all of your honest no nonsense I depth videos and just find this one ironic do to my described situation. Thank you again from a fan
Thanks for the feedback! I hope the Quieter3 works well for you!
Another good video Cuiv. My wife wants to say thanks for convincing me not to get the ASIAIR and saving her some money. I will continue using NINA 2.x.
Hahaha, glad I was able to help! If you're already using NINA successfully, I wouldn't think you need an ASIAIr, except maybe for a secondary portable setup for instance!
Hi Cuiv, excellent video as always but a slight omission I think: The ASIAir does log everything it does. For each sequence I run on my ASIAir I get a PHD2-Guidelog as well as an Autorun-Log that documents things like autofocus runs, meridian flips and much more. I've used these logs extensively in the past for bugfixing. But other than that, I agree that a solution with NINA is more powerful and flexible. Keep up the good work and thank you!
Thanks for the precision! I wanted to test some more for the video, but no ZWO camera meant no testing....
Spot on, I've gone down the route of open source Kstars and Astroberry due to just starting in the hobby and at that point I didn't want to invest a lot in case it wasn't for me. 2 years later and I'm still using the system and it does everything I need it to. Granted, there's lots of figuring out and troubleshooting but I'm also an engineer so I was able to work through those issues.
Cuiv, I appreciate this video. I started the hobby in 2021 with ASIAIR. Last night, I tried using N.I.N.A. and PhD2 for the first time. My meridian flip failed, so I’ll be trying again tonight. Overall, I’m impressed by N.I.N.A., and I’m looking forward to using your videos to increase my knowledge. Thank you!
What happened exactly with the meridian flip?
@@marpro1824 Unfortunately, I don’t know. I’m used to configuring the ASIAIR to run a sequence and then go to bed. I thought I had N.I.N.A. configured properly, but I must have made mistakes somewhere.
I hope you figure out the issue - you can drop on the NINA Discord for instant support! There are ways to test the meridian flip during the day so you don't waste imaging time at night
@@CuivTheLazyGeek That sounds like an excellent idea for your next video! :) I use NINA and have had successful Meridian flips - but - always nice to see an expert do it and illustrate the test process during the day and not loose any clear night time sky!
(Patriot Astro has a video as I recall but NINA has been evolving so fast - maybe good to see your perspective?)
I learned about the ASCOM Sky Simulator and gave it a try this evening. I was able to configure my mount’s meridian flip settings and use the Sky Simulator program to test a meridian flip in my house. It worked! I can’t believe how amazing this community is and how helpful the tools are. I’m quite happy! I think it’s time to celebrate with a glass of scotch. Cheers!
Cuiv, great video. The ASIAIR has grown a lot since you initially reviewed it. I find it perfect for my small portable setup. It still doesn't have all the functionality of Nina, but for based on a raspberry Pi I am impressed. One thing is for sure the simplicity of use with the ASIAIR will bring more people into the hobby which is a good thing.
Yep, I agree - whatever works for each individual user!
Note, though, that you can run a whole PC-based stack on a raspberry pi, such as KStars/Ekos
@@sophietaylor9753 I have run astroberry on a Pi, it works but overall it's not near as user friendly as the ASIAIR (when I tried it) . I think this is a real selling feature for ZWO, the ultimately simplicity of use with the ASIAIR. Bottom line is whatever people like and it works for them is a good thing. Thanks for bring up the option of Astroberry with Kstars/Ekos though many may not even be aware that is also an option for a very portable setup.
ASI Air has per default open network shares that can be connected via Windows,Mac or Linux. Every “storage”like inside mmc, cf card or usb drive has its own open share. This works in AP mode as well as with infrastructure mode via your home wifi or Ethernet connection. Of course, many of your other points are very true ,especially about the closed eco system - that’s why the Hardware and optimized software is relatively cheap for an out of the box solution… it “encourages” you to buy their other stuff. For remote control I highly recommend a VPN connection from your mobile device into your home router - this is a smart procedure for protected surfing anyways. Thank you for this video, it’s important to share different perspectives and opinions ,that’s what the internet is for and people need to know about all pros and cons. CS and can’t wait to see more videos from you in the future!
Good to know about the drive access and idea on the VPN to home router!
I'm with you Cuiv. I have a QHY268C with an 8" Celestron Edge HD and a Celestron CGX mount. I think the mount might work with the ASIAIR but my Moonlite focuser will not. And my SCOPSOAG will not work with it as well. And I don't want to be locked into just the ZWO system. That's why I sold my ASIAIR Pro and why I'm not getting the ASIAIR Plus. It they just opened it up to more vendors, I might be interested. But for now, I'll just haul around my battery box which houses my battery and minpc and use NINA. I use a 100 Amp Hour LiFEPO4 battery which will run my set up for days. It's my version of the ASIAir but works with all my gear. ;o)
Yeah the focuser is a really annoying point. ZWO has some of the best cameras on the market so at least on that front I can understand, but the EAF is really, really no great....
The discord channels I subscribe to are littered with people having driver / software / compatibility / laptop issues and I smile as “ it just works ! “ Appreciate your honest assessment but for me the Air is a lifesaver
Yep that's completely valid too!
Totally fair commentary. I use both an Asiair and a PC based control system (APT). I use the Asiair (when its working) on my travel rig, does excellent job on simple imaging processes and without a laptop. At home I use my pc based programme for complex sequences I want with all the bells and whistles and with a Moonlite focuser motor, the only one that fits on my Moonlite focuser.
That's a great way of using both!
When a company tries to tie me up like Apple I immediately resist. I agree with all of this video 100%. NINA is the best AP software available for the Amateur right now.
I've been using APT since version 3.0 and its worked well for me. Can you give a bit of an analysis between the two? Some of the strong points for switching? Thanks, Sammy
@@sammyairlines9307 Hi Sammy, I would suggest just installing it and giving it a try. It's free and it's easy to setup and use. It would take me 30 min to type out all of the pluses. IMHO it's not even close. I used APT when I started out and it's fine but NINA is a step up in every direction. They have an extremely helpful discord too.
@@EODHammer Thanks, I installed it last night and will start with Cuiv's videos.
Hey Cuiv......totally true, nice video!!!!
Thank you!
I will provide another view here, as a particular case: Why did I choose AsiAir? Well, for roaming. When it comes the day when I have my own backyard or rooftop, then I will be able to deploy a static setup but for now, I drive 100km away from Berlin to find a dark place and 100km to get back home. I must mount and demount everything. Battery. EQ5 mount, scope, goodies and turn my car into a camper and back into a car each time :)
-Offline: In the fields there is no network to upload files. I do need to extract the SD card and dump it once I get home.
-Set up times: I have no place for a static setup. No remote connection from restaurant. Session times include then drive time and setup montage time.
-Power consumption: I rely on a battery for a whole night. AsiAir system is designed so that no remote desktop session is needed. The way it communicates with the app is less consuming and the device itself is less consuming than a windows system or a laptop.
And don't get me wrong: I would like to escape the platform lock. For what I paid for my ZWO camera, I could get a better one in another brand. Same with the filter wheel. The EAF focuser, though, is the cheaper of the market. I just pray so they don't decide to lock it only for ZWO AM mount :D
NINA advanced sequencer is nice! Coming from Kstars, I really enjoyed simple adjustability and a greater stability. So for me it was an easy change. Oh, and I also got RisingCam after Cuiv's videos. Using it with SCT8+hyperstar. Very good indeed. Many thanks!
Sounds like an awesome setup!
Thoughtful as alway Cuiv. For much the same reasons you outline, I use a PC and, in my case, NINA, Firecapture, Sharpcap, etc, with a variety if ZWO and non-ZWO gear. I have 2 wide field kits that the Asiair runs. Being widefield, I get a little more latitude with things like guiding. However, there's an issue that I wish the PC world would address (it's flawed too). As someone else mentioned in the comments, drivers and USB port conflicts are a pain. If everything runs on a given night (or day when I'm doing solar) I feel like I won the lottery. So the Asiair just works and the PC doesn't just work all the time. So I run a couple of rigs every time I'm out. The Asiair guarantees I'll get good results to work on and who knows what I'll get out of my PC controlled system. I'll get everything running an hour or two before dark then, when it's time, I start a session and...the ASCOM errors come in. The errors are unintelligible. I have a PhD, but not in IT, and I can't translate what they mean. Logs don't help me but at least I can send a log to a support system. One ASCOM error will ruin a session. It's generally my focuser. Sometimes my mount. It's constant trouble shooting. I have a SkyShed observatory so at least I can leave everything set up. Astrophotography is for masochists and I wish someone would devise a system as seamless as the Asiair yet as flexible as a PC controlled system so I can stop therapy 😉. At least I can dream!
That's very interesting - I never (and I do mean never) get such ASCOM issues. I wonder what the root cause is. The annoying ASCOM issues I've seen on NINA forums usually stemmed from bad USB cables (the flat cables ZWO provides do have a tendency to have issues). I can see how the ASIAIR can be far better for people with such issues!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Your experience is reassuring. Thanks. I may never know the root cause but it could be my power supply. I'm using long extension cords. I've been waiting for 4 months for the electrician to install permanent power. It also could be because I'm a Mac guy at heart and the gremlins are taking it personally 😉. Thankfully I'm patient by nature. I've eliminated a source of error by connecting my CEM120 to my computer by ethernet a couple of days ago. Now the errors have stopped (for now). Ironically, the skies are really clear tonight, but it's exceptionally windy and turbulent. I may try anyway.
Excellent video and I agree. I use the PrimaLuceLab Eagle 4 with my preferred software loaded on it. For cameras I like Player One Astronomy solar cameras
Hey Cuiv - I also do have an ASI Air but I've found myself really gravitating towards NINA and the advanced sequencer. Also I just enjoy having the real estate of the screens to manage my sessions. I actually found a mouse and keyboard saves me a lot of calories I don't have to burn pressing the screen so many times to be mega lazy 🤣. I think also for people from an ICT background I also don't like being locked into a system. For example I often might use Sharpcap, NINA & Stellarium in the same session using each for their strengths. Anyway I'm rambling! Clear skies soon 👍
I am bound to learn both systems, as I now have both. I still need cameras for ASIAIR and the focus motor. I am learning how to load a NUC pc for my other rig that is ready. ASIAIR needs a DC to power tank setup so it can be portable.
I have a similar opinion, but my preference is to use the ekos/kstars/indi software stack. I've also contributed to the project to fix issues with equipment that I own. Very satisfying, to have this control over the software that I use.
That's also an incredible stack :)
Thank you very much for explaining about your preference in what software you prefer. And I understand 👍 but it seems that I need to write zwo and forward this video to them!! If the want your support they need to work a bit harder to aquire it!! Big Smile 😀 I am a new astronomer and an old one I am sad to say and I just can't get my hear around the complexities of nina, and other well known platforms. And you are really a great astronomer and very technically advanced. I am very glad you are because your humble as well AND that will keep me loyal no matter what you support! Holiday blessings to you my friend from a mountain top in Tennessee
Thanks Keith! I think ZWO is doing a great job with roadmap management for the ASIAIR and they're aware of everything :)
A very interesting discusion as always. I love the power of N.I.N.A. but I have in recent months converted all my rigs to ASI Air. It was a hard decision to make as N.I.N.A., as you said, can do so much more and I have some very nice non-ZWO equipments. However, for me, who always go to darksites to shoot and set up three rigs each time, ASI Air makes things so much easier. If the condition allows, I can set up a rig and start shooting in 20 minutes. (ASI Air does have the most efficient polar alignment tool that I have used.) With a PC I had to connect many things, and quite often need to debug on the connections or software setups, pull and insert usb cables repeatedly to see where the problems are. In general, it simply requires much more work using NINA in the field when I have to set up many things in the dark. So I have concluded, at least for me, NINA is a much better option if I had a fixed location setup. Going out in the field, on the other hand, ASI Air works better and more efficient for me. By the way, I run three instances of Bluestacks on my laptop, so I can control all three rigs from one computer. With NINA I would have to have three computers.
Having said all these, I do miss the flat wizard, framing assistant, advanced sequencer, filter offset, more comprehensive fits header keywords, and all other powerful functions, oh, and my Pegasus Advance Powerbox, PrimaLuceLab focuser, and QHY guide camera. So I am now thinking of leaving one rig for a PC/NINA setup...
Hahaha choices choices!
I like ASIAIR while I am learning NINA. ASIAIR power management is a big plus.
Everything you say makes perfect sense and still I'm using Asiair. I even have a mini pc that I bought for telescope control purposes, it has Nina and all the needed drivers etc. installed and still I use Asiair. I really would like to migrate to using the pc, but with busy family life and really rare cloudless skies it just doesn't seem to happen. First setup process just seems to be too much for me, when the sky is clear I just carry my telescope outside and let Asiair do it's thing.
Maybe someday...
Complete understand, and it's really with the ASIAir shines!
I have the original ASIAIR. I tried it when first purchased and it did everything advertised and worked fine. It lacks Solar and Lunar tracking modes so I rarely used it.
When the updates added all star polar alignment I started using it again as my primary viewing location does not let me see the South Celestial Pole. I would generally do a drift align that was good enough.
Now I use the ASIAIR every session during set up to get the polar alignment accurate. It works really well for this and in my case is worth the money just for this feature alone.
Once the mount is aligned I disconnect and use a laptop with ASCOM, Sharpcap, PHD etc. For solar and lunar guiding I use LuSol Guide which always nails it.
Interesting use of the ASIAir as a polar alignment tool! It's true that it's a great little tool for that as well!
My MiniPC sometimes runs 2 rigs at the same time: Meade LX90 8" for Lunar/Planetary and SW EQM35 with 6" Newt for DSOs. It is powerful enough to even process some .SERs while gathering DSO subs. I have PixInsight installed on it too, along planetarium and Photoshop. When not outside on the mount it doubles as entertainment PC hooked up to TV. But same as Cuiv I have a mix of camera brands. If versatility is your game no ASI Air for you.
But I get why it is so popular and nothing wrong with it, the more folks in this hobby the better for everybody.
Yep, excellent summary!
A very pertinent opinion! I was just studying your other tutorials, regarding NINA and how to work with this program. I am a frequent user of ASIAIR and in general I am very satisfied with the simplicity of working with this device. But of course there is. and frustrations, especially due to the blockage that ZWO applies in using other astro cameras, apart from those from ASI. Especially because, I received for testing an Omegon veTEC 571 camera which is equivalent to the ASI 2600MC-Pro, only that it is cheaper by 1000 EUR. Of course it doesn't connect with ASIAIR, which tempts me to leave it aside, but the big price difference makes me think again. I would like to suggest you, if you could make a video tutorial, in which you show exactly your alternative version to ASIAIR, the computer you use, and how you loaded all the necessary drivers and programs into it, so that the mobile solution should be ok, and giving up ASIAIR should not be a burden. Also, I would ask you, if possible, to specify how you load all the necessary data into NINA for this program to work well together with the equipment used. I mean the databases for Plate solving, for example, or the drivers that must be installed for different mounts and how they must be connected. If you will do these tutorials, thank you in advance!
Interesting take on things! - As someone who uses both systems every clear night I've gotta say I like both almost equally! I reckon if I was forced to pick only one, I'd go with NINA at this point for home use though, PC's are just natively more versatile I guess 👍 (for a portable or grab and go rig though, asiair for me, no contest!)
I too use both but honestly tend to go the ASIAir lazy way for most nights. I do have to say, I was on vacation recently with my ASIair and my skyhunter and it worked seamlessly.. hauling some gear around greece I was happy with my ASI.
Cuiv great video as always. I was just about ready to reply pretty much what Luke said. I use NINA for my setup that resides in the astroshed and the ASIAIR for my grab and go stuff - although I consider my rig that I have setup and take down every night as portable even though I am home. Cheers
I would assume your new camera would have trouble with the ASIAir! But yes I completely agree, in the end it's whatever works! :-)
Thank you Lazy Geek! I was considering an ASIAIR Plus, but have bought QHY cameras (533M and the little 5L-II-M) which are not supported. It looks like a nice neat on-OTA package, but I will likely stick to my PLL EagleCore for its excellent guiding, and fixed cables for APT/Nina to laptop. Appreciate the in depth comments.
Glad I could help!
I'm not very tech savvy I have to admit but through watching your channel and some others I've learnt NINA. I only use the simple sequencer simply because I can't go fully remote that and the fact I don't image with ZWO gear either. NINA for me has been a real game changer and while I like the ASI air I don't like being forced to use one brand especially as I've had some very good deals with equipment. Keep up the good work clear skies.
Thanks for the feedback, and glad that you have a solution that works for you!
Great explanation. I think ASIAIR is great especially if you have all ZWO equipment and/or you are new to AP. I like the idea of a NUC PC to give you many options to explore as far as software even if you have ZWO equipment.
Thanks Barbara! Completely agree, that's basically it in a nutshell :)
Cuiv, very much appreciate your opinion. I have tried everything from using a laptop to a NUC. However, when the ASIAIR Pro got released, it did provided a constant working astophotography session. To be honest (and maybe because I am lazy), I wouldn't know how to decipher the logs if I was having a problem with either NINA or PHD2. I do agree with you that it does keep one in the ZWO ecosystem. Hmm, much like Apple. Keep up the great work.
Hahaha if it works for you, it's the right choice!
I couln't be more agree :) I've zwo cameras but I use Ekos on Linux over a RPI because I'm of those who hate when a machine you own doesn't allow you to go into cables and wires and tune things and diagnose when necessary :-) I want to have full control of my setup, I'm who decide what to do with it, not the machine - it should be only a slave for my will. So, I could not be happy with such a closed solution as ASIAIR who decide everything for you and doesn't let you do as you want with your own hardware and software.
Yep, in the end it's all about what works for each individual:-)
ASIAIR is ZWO centric and for very minimalist / light setup. Like you my main camera is a QHY268C, and my guide camera is QHY5II. Furthermore NINIA's advanced sequencer allows me to create complex sequences.
Cuiv, I couldn’t agree with you more. I have plenty of ZWO equipment including cameras and a Focuser and they all work great with NINA. But I just like the fact that I can debug problems better on a Windows platform liked you mentioned with various logs from NINA and PHD2. By the way I am just replacing my Windows machine with the Mele Quieter 3. I would recommend taking off that Windows sticker to make your Mele run cooler.
Oh yes I heard that about the sticker! I'll get around to it :)
THANK You Cuiv! (I am actually also a N.I.N.A user for the same reasons you described it well )
Great discussion, doesn't come across as a rant to me! Horses for courses as they say. For me, as a (currently) occasional and mobile astrophotographer the ASIAIR fits the bill, but when I can have my own more permanent set up then a system with more control might be better, I will reassess at the time. Although the ASIAIR might do everything by the time I have a permanent setup ;)
Completely agree! As long as it works!
I appreciated these automation videos, which educated me a lot. I am new to astronomy with a Windows IT career and have been a photographer for 40 years with Nikon equipment. Keep changing my mind on what scope to buy. I had a C6 in backorder; I can't go wrong with that to start and later be probable if the hobby is continuous. Ordered a StarSense Explorer with smartphone interaction was excellent, but only a little after this and related videos. StarSense Explorer is going back to Amazon. ASIAIR vs. NINA sounds like Apple (Wall garden) vs. PC/Android debate. As an engineer, NINA is attractive with a learning curve. ASIAIR sounds more straightforward with integration if I get all ZWO products. They have a good review in general.
The ASIAIR is also excellent - it really depends on what you prefer :)
Hi Cuiv, Great video as always! I was wondering how you manage to take flats after every session / filter without having to come up to the camera. Is there a lazy way that you could share? Thanks
Use NINA's flat wizard-it's magical
Yep, the NINA flat wizard - also I only take new flats if I change the filter in the filter drawer :-) so not after every session!
Like you, I have a simple reason: an Altair camera and a Rigel Systems focuser, so no ASIAir for me. But more than that, I'm loving the advanced sequencer in NINA as well as the plugins. Text messages (OK, Telegram) on error? Yep. Auto-copy to my NAS? Yep, that too. Turn off my sprinklers when I start an imaging run? Yeah, it does that too.
What do I miss? Live stacking.
Great video like usually! I'm agree that ASIAIR is great for not so technical people. I also prefer to control everything, so I'm using Astroberry/Stellarmate (maybe NINA is great, but is only Windows version, which make unusable for me).
It's also great for tired techies too :D in the end whatever works for each person :)
I have ASIAIR on one rig (RedCat51 and swap with RASA 8) and Eagle and Nina on my 127 rig. Both will join and copy via network cable.
I just picked up a used ASI Air Pro a few weeks ago and have used it a few times with excellent results. The only pain in the rear is if you lose power and the SD card won't boot anymore. I've had it happen twice in two weeks. My mini-PC doesn't suffer the same issue.
I think they fixed this with the Plus and the Mini!
Always appreciate your videos. Some time ago you did some automation that prompted me to get a couple of Pi4s to run Stellamate which I notice doesn't even get a mention here. Interested in your thoughts on it given I believe it would work with your rig. Regards
Yep, I really wanted to answer the question of why I'm not using the ASIAir vs what I currently use. Getting into other solutions would have muddied the discussion
@@CuivTheLazyGeek thanks for prompt reply and understand remaining focused on the response. Still interested in your thoughts on Stellar mate and assume your response for ASIAir is valid for that too.
Nina is a complicated program that’s not user friendly, at least not for me. I love taking photos, I hate fighting with laptop processing. ASIAIR does everything I need, it’s for the non geek.
ASIAIR is also for geeks - in the end it's all about what fits the user needs :-)
Totally agree about the focus routine on the ASIAIR. There isn’t enough control to achieve focus on certain scopes and the backlash is ridiculous
I think everyone has a different experience! But yes I agree with that
Thanks for another super informative video, Cuiv. I am sure you've mentioned this somewhere but in emulating your laziness i shall simply ask here: what sort of micro PC are you using, and how are you powering it?
th-cam.com/video/asSfA6HVHAc/w-d-xo.html
Hey Cuiv, Love your videos. Just a quick question, what kind of small mini computer is that on the CEM60?
I got started on the ASI Air Pro. I loved it. But I quickly moved on to NINA and a PC. NINA's advanced sequencer is just so powerful. And then others create plugins to add additional features. Plus, the team is great and are always answering questions on Discord.
PHD2 can be a pain at times, but it's also very powerful once you get it going.
I use a Moonlite Nitecrawler focuser/rotator. ASI Air is not an option with that. But I'm with you that even if I had a 100% zwo setup, I'd stay with NINA. Like you, I also use the robocopy plugin and I synchronize during imaging.
Yep, the focuser part is annoying. If ZWO made high quality focusers I'd understand better...
First Cuiv! 100% true, if ASIAIR supported all of those other items and sell for more money! What I NEED as well as others is a focus presets for Filters...
What would lead you to a PrimaluceLab Eagle for example.
Get Premalucelab Eagle then
In the end it's all about your needs vs the solutions offered!
One thing for sure it’s better than stellarmate, Astrophotography with ASIAIR plus has been a breeze from polar aligning to taking pictures. just a question Cuiv have you’ve gone back to using Stellarmate? By the way I enjoy your videos I can’t wait on your follow up video on the dwarf 2.
I haven't use the Stellarmate in a long time at this stage...
I could never get Stellarmate to work reliably! So many wasted nights and I got tired of raising tickets and being asked to update the software. Port conflicts and issues with polar alignment, plate solving and meridian flip not working consistently.
It also just crashes every now and again! I persisted with it and if the bugs were ironed out it would be an excellent product. Some people swear by it. I was never able to get it working properly. I get the impression it doesn't have a lot of development resources.
I have a mini PC with NINA (which I really like) but I've just ordered an ASIAIR Plus too.
I'll certainly give the ASIAIR a proper workout. The feedback from people on my local astronomy society has been excellent.
I'm an engineer by background so I enjoy the technical aspects of astroimaging (to a degree) and I can get excellent polar alignment and guiding in NINA/PHD2 and otherwise the software easy to use with good reliability. Still needs some TLC/configuration and is not completely free from bugs though but as Quiv says it's got some powerful tools and is customisable.
Excited to see how I fair with the ASIAIR plus! And in the long run I can always choose to migrate back to NINA/mini PC if needs be (I'll be using it for my Celestron Edge HD rig in any case).
I totally agree, I don't use one for the same reason. Hopefully this will change, but I'm not holding my breath.
I am happy to be "locked into ZWO" . I run three scopes (RASA 11 with ZWO OSC 2600, 115mm triplet with ZWO 2600 MM and 80mm with ZWO 1600 mm) and all at once and each has an Asiair plus...without them I don't know how it could be done (at this point at least). I have NINA on my laptop so maybe in time I can at least look at it but I am so happy to have the three scopes working so I can concentrate on other things like automating the observatory roof... I love being able to gather up the three USB drives and take them to my van for processing...and the WiFi works great so I lay on my bed monitoring the scopes visually via two security cameras...it's only taken me half a life time to do all this and Asiair Plus is what made it finally happen...guiding and focus are great..so far. I do think you are highly invested in NINA just as I am heavily invested in ZWO and so one will think ones choice was a wise one.
I do like seeing your adventures and have no idea how you can do it from such a big city...me 10 klms out of a country town that has 7 street lights...but you just don't notice cause there are many hills hiding them.
Completely understand and agree! In the end, it's really to each their own!
Cuiv, love your videos but I actually find the simple all in solution of ZWO a great benefit. Up until recently I ran a remote 17” Planewave on an MEII with the most complicated software suite possible. Now that I am back to backyard imaging, I want to turn it on, have it work and run it all from the comfort of my IPad. Until NINA offers that, I’ll stick with the ASIAir. All the best, Jim
In the end, it's whatever works for each - of course you can absolutely control NINA from a tablet or phone, which is something I routinely do from my couch :)
Great video Cuiv!
You bring here a beautiful philosophical point 13:05
Because you are not just "lazy" but also "geek" (as in "obsessive enthusiast" rather than "unfashionable or socially inept")
Maybe there should be a new word in the dictionary for "lazy-geek"
For a non-geek lazy person that doesn't want any of the tinkering I think that best solution would not be to buy the ASIAIR, but an all inclusive solution like Stellina or Unistellar.
In my case I think the ASIAIR would be a good fit for me (I'm a geek to but I think you are even geeker)
However I already bought a QHY290 camera old stock very cheap, and then the Player One Saturn-C, because at the time it was the only non-cooled camera using the IMX533C sensor, hence the road to the mini PC is paved...🙃
Good point on lazy-geek as a term :D although I also am unfashionable and socially inept, as a huge introvert - but that's another topic :p
You're an artiste' Cuiv!
I like to use QHY cameras and have the same problem with using ASIAir, what I ended up doing is installing Steallarmate OS on the ASIAir Hardware.
This is very easy to do as the ASIAir is just a raspberry pi 4 with some extra hardware for the power connectors
Stellarmate works great and has much more functionality, also it WORKS WITH the ASIAir power connectors!
For example, it has the sequencing functions you like in NINA and much more
with stellarmate i can set up my sequence plan and it will automatically warm up the camera, plate solve and slew to target, perform the auofocus, start guiding, shoot frames for each filter i need (automatically refocus between filters), and will also perform the meridian flip. It will also shut down and park the telescope as it gets close to dawn.
everything is based on Kstars which has pretty deep planetarium features as well as its own guiding software (or you can tell it to use PHD)
Yep, I've used Stellarmate - I'd say NINA and Stellarmate are on par for sequencing (what you describe is what I also do in NINA!), although I did have some autofocus issues with Stellarmate as well!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Stellarmate's autofocus routine is much better now, but i do agree that NINA is ahead of the curve on that one.
My main factor is portability and power draw from the raspberry pi is way better for portable power than dealing with a laptop
@@chinard Autofocus should be greatly improved in the next couple of months :)
Hi Cuiv, great video! I love using both, AsiAir with my small Apo fully equipped with ZWO gear. It utilizes a 2600MC Pro, 120MM Mini and the EAF.
My other telescope, a 6" Newtonian, I am running with NINA as it is fully equipped with imaging and guiding cameras from Omegon (also build by Touptek like the RisingCam).
Both systems have their own pros and cons. With the AsiAir I am quicker to start my imaging session because of less complexity. With Nina I can adjust the imaging session if needed on the fly.
Maybe you could do another TH-cam Short how to create an own instruction in the Advanced Sequencer. So far have been failing to do so. I have to load my template, go to Sky Atlas, go to Framing Assistant (or import co-ordinates from Stellarium), copy and paste the co-ordinates to the Advanced Sequencer and update the target name. So I really would like to lear how to get lazier in this process that I can just select a target and direct do the automated way to bring it to a saved instruction in the Advanced Sequencer.
I would like to have an instruction set with all my Gobal Instructions, preparations, imaging session and session closure.
I think the best advanced sequencer guide is from the channel Patriot Astro, check it out!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Thanks a lot! I am going to check it out.
Thank you for this video. I currently have one setup with Nina and another one with Asi air. I’ve been thinking about fully committing to one set up or the other. Do you have a video where you explain how to set up Chrome Remote Desktop to see from your phone ?
The ASIAIR has had PHD2 guiding logs for a long time as well, and you can use PHD2 Log Viewer on a computer to analyze the logs. When you have the ASIAIR connected to your home wifi via station mode, you can wirelessly pull all the files your imaging to another PC or server without ever touching the ASIAIR, thats how I get my files to my PC everytime. Granted though its not automatically done, I'd have to write a script to automate it but would be relatively simply to do. There's no doubt NINA is much more powerful, and feature rich....but the ASIAIR is still a good little box that works amazing most of the time.
Cuiv, I don’t know if you noticed on another video that you uploaded recently about PHD2 using the log viewer, that I replied to your reply that you can obtain the log files from the ASIAIR. When you go to your data folders to look at your autorun light files etc. there’s also a folder called logs and your PHD2 log file is in that folder. I downloaded the PHD2 log viewer for my Mac OS and opened the log files from the ASIAIR and the viewer plotted it perfectly like you had shown in your other video a month or so ago. Just an FYI for you and your viewers!
I probably promptly forgot about it! Ok that is great to hear then!! Thank you!
I use my ASIAIR in winter, it's quick to setup, not that my mini PC is hard but it has FAR more options, but it does take a bit longer. When it's -15c out I don't want to mess around and the ASIAIR is quick PA and I'm done. I have my gripes about the Air but its more UI issues that I don't like. ZWO is the Apple of the astrophotography world, it's not a bad thing but definitely locks you down. Hell I even bought an AM5 though you can use it with a PC too.
And that's a great use case too!
Thanks!!!
Spot on to me! But, I am sure we all agree we should each use what we like, in SW and equipment. There is never one right way or system we should all use.
Exactly! I was just detailing my own reasons!
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder Cuiv. My next door neighbour is an artist - a professional artist and reasonably well know despite still being alive! He sees things differently to me, he sees different things within what we may both be looking at. AP end results are to a large extent art. Enhancing, saturating colours is art to achieve something that is pleasing to you (and maybe your audience). I'll admit to being somewhat conservative with my own images and to be honest, I don't like the Hubble Pallete because it's not real, is it. 😀 But, just like my neighbour, I produce images that are pleasing to me and Joe Public can say what they want - if they want different they just need to start taking their own subs! Just because lots of new tools exist doesn't mean they have to be used. I'm not sure that if and when I can afford Russell Croman's excellent tools I'll spend the money. I'm happy with what I achieve.
May I ask, what mini computer do you use? ...and thank you for another very informative video!
It's a The Mele Quieter 2 - see this video where he explains the features th-cam.com/video/asSfA6HVHAc/w-d-xo.html
@@jpwilliamsj Thank you!
Hi! Love the video , a few questions if I could , What’s the mini Pc you are using ? Where do I get one and how many usb ports (3&2.0 does it have ?
It's a Melee Quieter 2, it has 4 USB ports, I think all of them are USB3 as far as I remember
Hey Cuiv love your channel. Always very informative. There is a simple an effective way to transfer files wirelessly from ASIAIR to your computer. No need to use usb memory sticks.
Yep, others have told me! It's still a batch download though as far as I understand - that would be more painful than manual transfer. Just having the files locally on my processing computer without having to do anything is really useful :)
I went back SGpro, especially with mono crome. Had issues with plate solving and the polar alignment could had been better. For my personal experience it’s was frustrating, so I through it out the window from my car at 70 mph.
I hope you didn't actually throw it out the window of a running car!
I also used both NINA and ASIAir quite a lot and if I were to choose one, I'd go with NINA without a 2nd thought. Way more customizable and once you set it up properly, it just works and it's very reliable. ASIAir is still full of bugs, both in the firmware and the android app. When it works, it's fine, simple to use but it's not customizable enough and it's not reliable for off hands imaging nights. A big con for me is also AF. It just doesn't work as well as it should.
Totally agreed. I recently switched from ASIair to Min PC-based Astrophotography for same reasons.
File transfer is pretty straightforward when using the ASiAir over ethernet, it's basically drag and drop in file manager.
Another limitation with the ASIAir is the total lack of multiple synchronised imaging camera support which ZWO has said previously they will not be adding. Sometimes I like to piggyback a DSLR for wide field on my main scope & sync the dithering like other apps (N.I.N.A & APT) provide.
That's is true as well, synchronized dither is a must for multi scope setups but I don't think ZWO would prioritize that user base...
Thanks Cuiv. I had no idea you couldn’t run NINA on the ASI air. (I assumed it was a mini PC). That would be a definite dealbreaker for me, since NINA is fantastic. I’d never give that up. So I’m sticking with my long USB cable back to my laptop.
If NINA is PC-based, ASIAIR is Raspberry Linux-based and lock. So they are not exchangeable in an effortless manner.
I appreciate your honest opinion on astrophotography, but as a relative newbie to this art, I found NINA to be far too complex for my old brain,especially as I’m am trying to learn post-processing, so I find ASIAIR to be a life saver for me. It does what I want it to do and that works for me as someone who has been into astrophotography for less than a year. I’m sure there are, perhaps, better ways to get the data, I have no time to delve into something more complex at this stage. Great videos though.
I prefer N.I.N.A / PC myself, just because of how versatile that combination is. But, I completely understand the value of AsiAir and just how many who've been introduced to astrophotography because of it. It is indeed a wonderful device, even if I do not see any personal value of getting one.
Hey Cuiv, out of curiosity with your risingcam camera do you take dark calibration frames? If so, do you notice a large number of hot pixels in those frames?
Hello Cuiv, like you I like to tinker. I was using Astrophotography Tool on my laptop next to my HEQ5 mount. Then I heard about Astroberry which I am glad I tried appreciating the advantage of having a small Linux based computer attached to my mount with much better cable management a sort of poor man's ASIAir. Now I fancy a Windows based small computer so I bought a Latte Panda 3 Delta but I'm still tinkering with that to get it working wirelessly without a screen, keyboard or mouse. Hopefully I'll get there and be able to try Nina for the first time. 'Enjoy your videos, thanks.
Good luck with the PC and NINA!
I've had the ASIAIR for quite a few years...I've used it maybe twice. I much prefer my NUC with NINA....to many reasons to list why.
Hi Cuiv, great video! One question, can you point me to one of your videos (or someone else's) with more info on the mini PC you're using? Currently I'm using NINA on a laptop, but I'm considering getting a dedicated mini PS to mount on the scope. Thank you so much.
Mele Quieter 2 should be a video on the channel from a year ago or so!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Found it! Thank you very much!
Hi Cuiv. The new v2.0 of asiair uses PHD2. I noticed it in the logs and wondered whether the developers knew. One of them saw my post and answered me. They worked with ZWO to change the system to integrate it. However, I have had so many issues since that I bought a mini PC. My issues were losing the mount, turning it upside down during imaging, constant disconnections (which resolved in beta version of 2.1), and a few more. This was enough for me.
Very interesting! I definitely wish the ASIAIR the best, I hope they make it better and better (and I hope someone will be able to jailbreak it hehe)
I started with SGP+PhD 2 and used that for several years. Enjoyed the tinkering and necessary debugging on a continuous basis… Ultimately however, the time and overhead necessary to get things setup started conflicting with life and so I stopped imaging…
I recently got back into the hobby and the ASI air has made imaging much smoother, fast and reliable. I am also using a miele PC as well to deal with my flip flap. Installed NINA to test it out and spent a lot of time to get my focusing working but still failing to get focus as good as I get on the ASI… The user interface is better than SGP but still very cluttered and complex compared to an ASI which makes the hobby much more accessible to a greater number of people which can only benefit astrophotography. It might be business driven but ZWO should be commanded for the simple integration and “just works” ecosystem. I know we enjoy flexibility (I am a computer engineer and deal with complexity everyday) but ZWO has innovated where others have not. The ecosystem issue is a fair one but limiting the number of devices is what allows such reliability and integration.
Being able to control your gear from a phone, tablet, computer (blue stacks) transparently is amazing and more manufacturers or the open source should be embracing mobile devices. I will continue to use both the ASI and a PC but I think the ASI air has brought many people into the hobby. We really need more innovation in the gear control ecosystem and this will bring more people and kids into the hobby. Thank you for the great videos as always. Tu es vraiment paresseux…
Completely agree! ZWO truly did something new in the space, that was and is a complete game changer! At the same time, they're building their kind of locked ecosystem, which is great business wise (for them) and that's where I couldn't follow in the end :)
Hi Cuiv, Thanks for the informative videos! This is our next step with our school rigs, we where thinking to use a Macbook does having an on board computer make things easier?
I personally would avoid MacBooks for astrophotography, unless they're just used to access a Windows machine mounted on the scope... A lot of software (including NINA) is Windows only...
@@CuivTheLazyGeek oh we are a 1-1 Macbook school, hard to avoid!
I migrated from the AAP to a mini pc and NINA. I feel much better about being able to use non ZWO equipment, and morally using open source software directly, as I believe the AAP does internally anyway. NINA and phd2 etc is just more fun, giving more fidelity of what's going on. I love it.
Awesome to hear!
Encore une vidéo superbe avec une analyse perninente... c'est agaçant....hihihihi. Pour ma part j'ai les deux systèmes. Il est difficile de les départager, NINA me convient très bien sur mon poste fixe car il me permet par exemple de piloter mon dôme ce que ne c'est pas faire l'AISIAIR PLUS. Sur ma deuxième configuration (ASKAR FR400) j'utilise l'ASIAIR PLUS car il est facile d'utilisation, rapide dans la mise en oeuvre de toutes les fonctionnalités comme l'alignement polaire, centrage de l'objet, le séquenceur et surtout les fonctionnalités comme le live stacking très efficace en Visuel-assisté lors de soirées educatives pour les enfants. Encore merci et bon NOEL!!!
J'aime agacer les gens! :D
I have experience in both sides of the camp (pro/anti ASI air) but hear me out. By education I'm a physicist and by trade I'm an engineer, so I like to think myself as tech savy and with good understanding on how to use complex equipment and software. I started my astro journey 2yrs ago with the ASI Air and I was really impressed at how simple and great it was. At the time, I only had an ASI533MC and an EAF so pretty entry level stuff where the use of a mini-PC was unnecessary. When my rig expanded and I wanted non-ZWO equipment, I made the plunge into the mini-PC world and I'm happy to admit that I was completely confused with all the extra things I needed to replace the ASI Air software with (NINA, PHD2, ASCOM, all the equipment drivers, Cart-du-Ciels). What used to be a "one stop shop" was now a whole new learning curve using this new software. This is coming from someone who was supposidly "switched on" so I can only feel what less tech savvy people are like. With that being said, having used my mini-PC rig for the past year I feel could NEVER go back to the ASI Air. I'm using the NINA advanced sequencer with multiple plugins including DIY meridian flip, Hocus Focus and the use of automated scripts. NINA works with any astro device which has an ASCOM driver and I can set up plans offline, which is a feature which has requested of the ASI Air for years without any progress from ZWO. I have complete control over my imaging routines and equipment and don't feel the need to buy products from one vendor. Great video Cuiv, and thanks for staying honest!
In the end it's whatever works for a user. ASIAir is definitely friendlier for beginners in particular and I completely understand why people use it even after gaining experience!
To simplify....N.I.N.A......That is all. There is nothing better in my opinion. Thanks for helping me get my N.I.N.A set up going. And thanks for all you do for the community.
My pleasure, glad it's helpful!
Hello to Cuiv and all your viewers. I started in AP with the AsiAir in 2019 but this year I “evolved” and now I use NINA and in the first tries it already paid off. I had one night with the ASiair and everything was setup, ready, went to sleep and in the morning I realized 95% of my subs were trash because as soon as I went to bed, clouds came and the framing moved a lot. That thing happened again, with NINA, but guess what, NINA was able to plate solve, and re-center after it drifted and also a pushover msg plus a red colored bulb light warned me and I was able to check and make sure that NINA auto corrected it. It is still challenging to me as I am in my first stages but this alone was worth the change.
Yeah, it's a "corner case" that can happen a lot. I get the feeling ZWO will add a similar feature at some point