Andrew Tate and Ancient Ideas About Women

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 846

  • @Bizarro69
    @Bizarro69 ปีที่แล้ว +712

    The infuriating thing with Tate is that despite his mother being the one who did all of the heavy lifting of actually being a present parent for their entire life he absolutely ADORES his father who not only abandoned his mother but often verbally abused her in front of the kids, letting her know that he didn't stay around because she had expectations!
    The crime of demanding your partner to be exactly that, a partner!!!
    He wanted a servant and she refused to bow.
    How funny that Tate has become a man who demands the same of women that his father failed to get out his mother.
    The role bad fathers play in their son's development must not be under stated.

    • @julietfischer5056
      @julietfischer5056 ปีที่แล้ว +96

      He has nothing but contempt for people who do the heavy lifting in society. It's all about being bigger, badder, and wealthier than every other man on the planet. Proving himself to his father.

    • @Steven-ze2zk
      @Steven-ze2zk ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I think the main problem with Tate is that he has a black parent.

    • @julietfischer5056
      @julietfischer5056 ปีที่แล้ว +75

      @@Steven-ze2zk- And out comes the racism.

    • @dcollins4679
      @dcollins4679 ปีที่แล้ว +77

      @@Steven-ze2zk He had an irresponsible, abusive and absent father. What ever his ethnicity he was a poor excuse of a man, partner and father.

    • @Steven-ze2zk
      @Steven-ze2zk ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@julietfischer5056 It was just a joke, man. Don't take it seriously.

  •  ปีที่แล้ว +515

    What I hate the most of Tate's (and others') discourse is that force men to fit in a very restricted role. It's a "if you don't like this you're not a man" type of model which is terribly damaging to men themselves. We're all humans and as humans we have many dimensions and many ways to go about things. Telling someone if you're not this you're nothing it's horrible.

    • @CowMaster9001
      @CowMaster9001 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Unlike feminism, which brands you toxic and tries to destroy your life if you don't fit their role.

    • @Jack-zf3rz
      @Jack-zf3rz ปีที่แล้ว +65

      @@CowMaster9001 lol, what? Are strawmen arguments the only thing you're capable of?

    • @moodyonroody5313
      @moodyonroody5313 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      he rips men off in his Ponzi scheme .... he's no even pro-men just pro himself

    •  ปีที่แล้ว +41

      @@CowMaster9001 Uh? Who said anything about feminism?

    • @robertblume2951
      @robertblume2951 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      If trans is correct then so are Tate and the others either being masculine is a certain set of traits and a role or its genetic. Pick one.

  • @heatherfaust7643
    @heatherfaust7643 ปีที่แล้ว +587

    There’s not much out there that makes me as giddy as an educated woman ripping misogynist arguments to shreds with facts

    • @lesliemoiseauthor
      @lesliemoiseauthor ปีที่แล้ว

      ^^^^^

    • @harrys919
      @harrys919 ปีที่แล้ว +30

      @@teddiemack8071 what

    • @bludluva
      @bludluva ปีที่แล้ว +27

      As long as you’re equally giddy when misandrists disguised as feminists get equally ripped to shreds with said facts, I couldn’t agree more

    • @Brittanyem
      @Brittanyem ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Making you “giddy” suggests a lack of compassion for the fact that even those labelled “misogynists” are human beings worthy of empathy. This traditional value is what most of these “vacuums” are eluding to but unfortunately there is so much prejudice against this point of view that any support quickly has you slapped with a label and your voice silenced.

    • @julietfischer5056
      @julietfischer5056 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@teddiemack8071- You met a couple of women who didn't like you, so all feminists hate men?

  • @mariafernandaaviles2384
    @mariafernandaaviles2384 ปีที่แล้ว +88

    I really enjoyed this video. Sometimes I struggle to describe how being a feminist doesn't mean you don't care about men's issues, you did a great job with that.

    • @CowMaster9001
      @CowMaster9001 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      And being part of the anti-abolition movement doesn't mean you don't care about the problems your slaves have.

    • @Jack-zf3rz
      @Jack-zf3rz ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@CowMaster9001 wow dude, are you even able to make a coherent and rational argument?

    • @clwho4652
      @clwho4652 ปีที่แล้ว

      Being feminist men's yo care about men because men's issues can effect women.

    • @woodlandthing
      @woodlandthing ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@clwho4652 Everyone is negatively affected when the people we love or our wider community suffer, not just women. Maybe I’m just lucky not to be surrounded by bad people.

    • @clwho4652
      @clwho4652 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@woodlandthing That is part of what I was saying. Its like the old saying "no man is an island".

  • @evildead167
    @evildead167 ปีที่แล้ว +227

    Excellent work! I found this part to be especially powerful: "We have seen through the rise of the popularity of people like Andrew Tate that the cultural task of helping men grow and prosper cannot be neglected. And the opportunity to write a new pro-social script for masculinity, one that is empowering, supportive, and celebratory of men, is necessary."

    • @jtl-en4yx
      @jtl-en4yx ปีที่แล้ว

      Honestly society is so terrible I do not even want to see what this new masculinity it would create would be! One thing you can be sure of, it will be about control!

    • @l.s.d.5863
      @l.s.d.5863 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      I'd rather see a script that's supportive and celebratory of humans. Some division of perception and ideal along gender lines is inevitable as long as men and women have considerably different experiences in society, but I think the closer we can get to having a universal script of what a decent human is, instead of having to measure ourselves by gender or allot aspects of character by gender, the better for everyone.

    • @ylimeyh
      @ylimeyh ปีที่แล้ว +21

      I agree, but it's frustrating. I liked the portion on male malaise. Women and minorities have had to work harder achieve what they have, and their success is well-deserved. I do think men need something positive to work towards, but it often feels like they feel "entitled" to success without putting in the work towards achievement or merit. I'm wondering where these young men's fathers are and why they end up going to Tate for advice. I feel like other men should be the ones to write this new "script for masculinity" but I don't see a lot of men stepping up to the plate in this regard.

    • @petereames3041
      @petereames3041 ปีที่แล้ว

      Men are constantly demonised and criticised by the mainstream. Is it really a surprise that so many young men are drawn to figures like Tate when he is one of the few figures that actually supports them?

    • @ylimeyh
      @ylimeyh ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@petereames3041 I really don't think that is true. At least not any more than women and minorities are. Problematic men, like Tate, are criticized for their actions and words, and that's to be expected. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. Tate very openly demonizes and criticizes women. Just because men are being held to higher standards doesn't mean men should just become reactionary and hateful. Tate doesn't even "support" men, he cons them out of money and grooms them.

  • @lesliemoiseauthor
    @lesliemoiseauthor ปีที่แล้ว +161

    I'm in awe of your masterful understanding of historical context, and how clearly you relate the past to the present.

    • @CinziaDuBois
      @CinziaDuBois  ปีที่แล้ว +15

      thank you lovely Leslie!

    • @lesliemoiseauthor
      @lesliemoiseauthor ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@CinziaDuBois You're very welcome. You're great!

  • @matthewhines9787
    @matthewhines9787 ปีที่แล้ว +51

    I'm in tears right now. Thank you so very much, Cinzia.
    I am a liberal, white, cis, gay man. I was raised in a heteronormative but not overtly oppressive nuclear family. My father was well-meaning but often unsure what to do with me because even though he wasn't all chest beating aggressively macho, he was a Navy man who liked to work on cars, build things, tinker with electronics, drink beer, and occasionally make misogynistic jokes. However, he also loved folklore, fantasy novels, renaissance festivals, arts & crafts, and had taken ballet off and on for most of his minority. In short...he was from Oregon.
    The point is, I grew up feeling like I wasn't masculine enough...not a revelation for a gay guy to have issues with feeling like a man. However, because the version I had in my life to emulate was less Andrew Tate and more...if Bob Ross and Mike Rowe had a love child, my role model of masculinity seemed attainable...at least subconsciously. It has been like a carrot dangling in front of me on a string. This has led to a weird sort of limbo where I readily and enthusiastically ally myself with the feminist cause, but I also have some base need to be a protector, provider, and/or engineer of chivalry in the lives of women around me.
    The way you spoke of men who feel left behind and unsure of their place in the wake of the rise of women's freedom and success, but are also emotionally and mentally invested in that swell of liberation for women, made me feel seen. This feeling of wanting the best for a group that I know, academically, is marginalized; but also never being completely sure if I am overstepping or being domineering is almost like a condition I feel I am chronically masking in order to not offend. it's like a limerence in a non-romantic way.
    Thank You for seeing me.

    • @dragonfox2.058
      @dragonfox2.058 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      thank you Matthew. all we ask is that men listen to us. we aren't all crazy

    • @matthewhines9787
      @matthewhines9787 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@dragonfox2.058 Hell, even I ask more than that for women. It's not enough to just listen.
      Also, I never even intimated that women are crazy.

    • @dragonfox2.058
      @dragonfox2.058 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@matthewhines9787 thank you..of course you didn't intimate that...many men do however think that we're all sorts of things we're not. And that stems from patriarchal propaganda whcih also hurts men

  • @andrewkeeton4781
    @andrewkeeton4781 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    I’ve got a friend who took the bait hard. His girl left him and he’s in a bad custody battle which is just adding fuel to the fire I’ve tried to talk sense into him but he just won’t let go of the whole “I should be able to sleep with anyone but she can’t” bullshit and I’m just like dude what about your kid? He’s started to not care if he misses his days with his son and it’s all just really sad like he was a really great guy and had an awesome life.

    • @C12341
      @C12341 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      I hope things turn around for your friend. Tate's philosophy will absolutely destroy the lives of normal men, I hope people start realizing that. Only uber rich can pull off what he's doing and even then they seem to be failing at what matters most because they don't think of the consequences of multiple women and children without present dads - think of Elon Musk - he has all those kids from different women and a child has already emancipated themselves from him. Clearly all the money and worldly success meant nothing to that kid. Rather be poor with an involved father who isn't a slave to their lusts like a hungry ghost

  • @scooteroz5337
    @scooteroz5337 ปีที่แล้ว +69

    It's refreshing to see a nuanced take on what is such a complex issue. It's not an us versus them issue, men and women are all in this together.

  • @mshearn3198
    @mshearn3198 ปีที่แล้ว +100

    Tate is a funny guy, like really funny, unintentionally speaking. There's a video where he complains about his brother eating sushi, where he claims that easting T-bone stake makes you tougher than someone eating sushi. He's the epitome of fragile masculinity, a complete clown.

    • @petereames3041
      @petereames3041 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      I’m pretty sure that was a joke...

    • @BlackPanther-qo2tv
      @BlackPanther-qo2tv ปีที่แล้ว

      So glad I'm not on your side of the fence. You sound like a broken person.

    • @rynemcgriffin1752
      @rynemcgriffin1752 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@petereames3041Sure it was

    • @e.tezani3877
      @e.tezani3877 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      This.. same with Joe Rogan fans who are seeing the twilight of the gods apon them and their ideals.

  • @timothyhopper4956
    @timothyhopper4956 ปีที่แล้ว +150

    I only first heard of Tate a few weeks ago, and much as I immediately didn't like him, I was still truly shocked by the recent revelations of his (alleged) crimes. How the hell did someone like that ever have a public profile for months or years without those things ever coming to light?

    • @RussellTurner
      @RussellTurner ปีที่แล้ว +20

      Because they are so clearly fabricated.

    • @youtherthyfproduction5005
      @youtherthyfproduction5005 ปีที่แล้ว +68

      Bribes. He said him self that he constatly bribes the police and specifically moved to romania because it is easier to bribe the police there + harder for women(a.k.a his victims) to get help

    • @RussellTurner
      @RussellTurner ปีที่แล้ว +14

      @@youtherthyfproduction5005 No he didn’t. He said that every country in the world is corrupt to a certain extent. In Romania though bribery is more accessible to poor people and not just the rich like in The West.

    • @lizjolly5454
      @lizjolly5454 ปีที่แล้ว +32

      @@RussellTurner Why are you even here?

    • @RussellTurner
      @RussellTurner ปีที่แล้ว +11

      @@lizjolly5454 Errrr, because I am a subscriber to the channel. Is that ok with you or not?

  • @IncandescentLightbulb00
    @IncandescentLightbulb00 ปีที่แล้ว +67

    You make a very important point at the end. We absolutely cannot allow for this “us” vs “them” rhetoric. It is scary to think that there are people out there that think like Andrew Tate and agree with him. It’s scary to think that young men who lack direction find this kind of awfulness appealing. But if we don’t approach this with compassion and understanding then I really fear that there is a huge threat of regression. I can see that young men are struggling to find the right places that feel welcoming yet don’t peddle this anti-women sentiments, however they do exist. I work in a very male dominated field and I have many male friends and I wish that more of the guys who think that women are just “good for one thing” understood that actually the most rewarding relationship that you can have with anyone is the one when you can talk about things that interest you without thinking about whether the other person will eventually sleep with you.

    • @morgannyan2738
      @morgannyan2738 ปีที่แล้ว

      you can thank feminism for the us vs them mentalitiy thats the scary part

    • @JoseRamirez-vb1sk
      @JoseRamirez-vb1sk ปีที่แล้ว

      My opinion is that both a patriarchy and a matriarchy can be equally opressive. But I got no ideas on what would be an alternative to both.

  • @writethroughtheheart
    @writethroughtheheart ปีที่แล้ว +20

    What an unexpected and brilliant topic! I love that you mention that we need to also bring men up with us. To leave them aimless with their old paradigm destroyed helps no one.

  • @Soilfood365
    @Soilfood365 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    The idea that Alexander the Great and all his assembled armies worked on the drunken whims of one persuasive lady does have amusing echoes of Lysistrata...

  • @jeffbrownstain
    @jeffbrownstain ปีที่แล้ว +34

    Good thing someone is smart enough to have the conversations I'm too dumb for.

    • @MrGorillafist
      @MrGorillafist ปีที่แล้ว +2

      You're not dumb at all. The reason I know this is you're willing to listen and learn. Always something to be applauded.

    • @jeffbrownstain
      @jeffbrownstain ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@MrGorillafist Dumb-to-Smart is a 4-Dimensional Tesseract-shaped spectrum that exists in 3 planes of reality.
      I am indeed to dumb to speak about misogyny in prevty much any regard or form, yet that I'm smart enough to learn and do better is irrelevant in my opinion.

  • @sweetrolldealer
    @sweetrolldealer ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Honestly, society makes wanting to live off-grid look very tempting

  • @FanaticalJ1
    @FanaticalJ1 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Brilliant work! The necessary work of transforming traditional views of masculinity is key. Thank you for calling us all to this work (from a man getting on in years...).

  • @Elvertaw
    @Elvertaw ปีที่แล้ว +14

    Really enjoyed the video. I’ve never thought of the emancipation of men on that level. Your right. We do need a new script for men but I’m afraid that script may be a long time coming because some men seem to be too scared to change the narrative. 😥

  • @jamielondon6436
    @jamielondon6436 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Powerful statement at the end!
    Yes, we can only do this together.

  • @lebunnie
    @lebunnie ปีที่แล้ว +24

    Wonderful video, Cinzia! Thank you for speaking on this. I love the part at the end where you point out that it's the "old script for masculinity" (aka what we call "toxic masculinity") that is holding men back and not the new found rights for women.
    I've been thinking about this for years, and you've summed it up so eloquently!!

  • @Matt_The_Hugenot
    @Matt_The_Hugenot ปีที่แล้ว +31

    It's difficult for me to get beyond the words disgusting individual and, unfortunately, man, when thinking about Tate so I appreciate your creating a positive video starting with him. Hopefully it will help contribute to a more rational discourse.

    • @phuckU3621
      @phuckU3621 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

  • @jameswarden2691
    @jameswarden2691 ปีที่แล้ว +27

    I love the part where you discussed men working off a different script in a time when the script has changed. Does anyone have recommendations for influencers who are getting it right but are also popular? I'd love to see examples who can reach that teen to young adult demographic without sacrificing the message.

    • @chaoticreckless
      @chaoticreckless ปีที่แล้ว +19

      It's not really his focus at all, but the youtuber Ordinary Things mentioned Tate in his 2022 recap and said "Andrew Tate sells money, lust and power, but my dad would tell you that's just surface level sh*t, real men go after success, love, and responsibility. I know the difference seems subtle, but it's important, work hard, learn to take responsibility for your actions and make sure the people around you know how you feel about them. That is what being a man is all about"

    • @estellerobicheau852
      @estellerobicheau852 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Check out the speach prof.

    • @wildcatste
      @wildcatste ปีที่แล้ว +9

      My recs don’t focus only on masculinity but they cover it often and even have a few videos as the focus. And they don’t just talk about what’s toxic but what a healthy and whole masculinity can look like: FD signifier, cinema therapy, cold crash pictures, T1J, pop culture detective, and the speech prof. Also Trevor Noah has a video reflecting on/ discussing men and intimacy that I think is great.

    • @l.s.d.5863
      @l.s.d.5863 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@chaoticreckless I have mixed feelings about that kind of message. Sure, it's definitely a more positive take on masculinity than what's offered to young men by people like Tate (though admittedly, it'd take some kind of interdimensional limbo champion to get under that bar), but I think the underlying implications of that kind of gender division can still be lowkey insidious. In a way, it suggests that those things, such as hard work and personal responsibility, are the province of men. I appreciate the aim for genuinely admirable and healthy qualities, and in general I do think OT is probably a much more positive role model than a lot of the options out there, especially no doubt for the flood of fans that came from Internet Historian, whose audience base sadly tends on the misogynistic and socially/emotionally immature side. However, ideally I think it best for men, and for everyone, that rather than ascribing a new social script to men specifically in the form of some masculine ideal, no matter how well intended or conscientiously crafted, that everyone, regardless of gender, is guided not to be a great man or a great woman, but a great person. That upholding principles of responsibility, honesty, courage, humility, hard work, etc., is not and should not be a gender-specific pursuit. It's just being a decent human. Period. And we should all try to.

    • @l.s.d.5863
      @l.s.d.5863 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@wildcatste All good recommendations.
      I'd add to that Danny Gonzalez and the Green Brothers, neither of whom specifically cover gender issues, but who generally put forth principles and display behavior that I think sets a very positive example.

  • @chaoticreckless
    @chaoticreckless ปีที่แล้ว +45

    It's so nice to see someone treat the situation of young men in today's world with a level head. Normally I just get either people telling me all women are just evil, which is ridiculous, or people making fun of men and saying we're all pathetic, it got so bad I started questioning if an actual human connection could be made or if every woman I meet would just be obsessed with hating me for how I was born (which has happened to me multiple times with girlfriends or female friends eventually showing how much they truly despise me) so this video restores a bit of my faith in humanity

    • @l.s.d.5863
      @l.s.d.5863 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      I've never met a woman who fits the raving man-hater stereotype. Ever. Do they exist somewhere? Sure, yeah. Every type of person exists somewhere. But if every woman you know, including your own partners and friends, *hate you,* it's time to stop blaming ¨angry feminism¨ and look inward, friend. : P

    • @chaoticreckless
      @chaoticreckless ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@l.s.d.5863 I deleted my previous response because I didn't feel like explaining myself to a complete stranger, I understand what you're saying, and with the limited information I gave, it's a totally reasonable response, but suffice it to say it's much more complicated than that

    • @cmm5542
      @cmm5542 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      I hope you find the connection you are looking for, and good for you for not accepting unbalanced extremes that define one half or the other as one certain way. We're all individuals and need to connect as individuals! Wishing you all the best. 🙂

    • @maewest68
      @maewest68 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@l.s.d.5863 if all the men start hating you, time to look inward, "friend".

  • @coronin8587
    @coronin8587 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I really just don't understand what happened to the idea that we, as a species, should (not choose, but just simply do) treat one another with the equality and respect due unto them.

  • @TheRunningLeopard
    @TheRunningLeopard ปีที่แล้ว +72

    As a trans-masc person, the last two section of this video really hit my cord. I've never had a positive male figure (father or not), and if I as a non-cis man have struggled with it, I can't imagine the struggle of people who are raised to be "manly men" who repress their emotions.

    • @trenae77
      @trenae77 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      I didn’t have a perfect father, but I had one who tried in his own way, and raised a son (my brother) who views marriage as a partner and an equal.

  • @sophiaisabelle027
    @sophiaisabelle027 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    We look forward to more insightful content from you. Keep up the good work.

  • @Astrianaut
    @Astrianaut ปีที่แล้ว +19

    I feel like Andrew Tate watched one day a documentary about how women were treated in the early 20th century and was like: yes, that's great, why don't we do that nowadays as well?

  • @MrAaroncissell
    @MrAaroncissell ปีที่แล้ว +13

    If that was a thought process then Bravo. Well put together and informative. Thanks

  • @Dloin
    @Dloin ปีที่แล้ว +22

    Of course the Lady of the Library rips the "I hate Books" Dude to shreds :D very well done.

  • @sue-anngouvea3464
    @sue-anngouvea3464 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Your discussion at the end is such a good way to charactise things we need to understand better.
    The very impressed new subscriber

  • @acegard7801
    @acegard7801 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Thank you for this perspective, it opened my eyes to make issues I've struggled to comprehend.

  • @DavidMacDowellBlue
    @DavidMacDowellBlue ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I have been a fan of yours for some time now.
    I am now even a bigger fan, for your wit and intelligence, your honesty and for your wisdom (fueled, as such nearly always is, by compassion).

  • @noodletribunal9793
    @noodletribunal9793 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    i felt so heard in the male malaise bit and onward. man it just dont feel good for a lot of us. it would be nice to know that someone cared. it really is so tiring.

  • @cramerfloro5936
    @cramerfloro5936 ปีที่แล้ว +31

    You translating "εταίρα" as "cool girl" is so based! Have you ever thought about making a video on hetairai in general or on a particular one, like Rhodopis/Dorica?

    • @CinziaDuBois
      @CinziaDuBois  ปีที่แล้ว +19

      sorry I’m afraid I can’t take credit for that at all. I said “call girl” 😅 I’m not based at all

    • @sebdhaese
      @sebdhaese ปีที่แล้ว +13

      @@CinziaDuBois lmao, I thought you were saying "cool girl" as well. Your lovely accent makes people hear things that aren't there, I guess. 🤣

  • @leahlynch1578
    @leahlynch1578 ปีที่แล้ว +45

    This is a fantastic message and supports the well being and rights of all people. Wonderful video!
    Keep reading :)

  • @Strider_Shinryu
    @Strider_Shinryu ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Wonderful video as always. I have to say, though, that what I enjoyed most was the bit at the end. There are some really powerful statements there that I feel should be the biggest takeaway from this discussion, and the biggest driver of discussion on the topic in the future. Rather than outright condemnation, some level of understanding and support.

  • @BookishTexan
    @BookishTexan ปีที่แล้ว +33

    I think this is great and I agree that we need to create a new paradigm for masculinity. I don’t think that it is the responsibility of women to do that though of course their leadership and ideas are essential. I think it is the fault of men (including me) who know that Tate & Conare peddling misogyny and toxic masculinity to offer alternate, positive views.

    • @Jack-zf3rz
      @Jack-zf3rz ปีที่แล้ว +6

      His cultists I try to challenge them on getting a trade and getting into construction. Too me the typical "real mans" job is in construction or manual labor. That's not to say women shouldn't be getting into construction as well. I just don't see any of his cultists actually getting into traditional Masculine careers. They all seem to want to get into the internet influencer of his line of business.

    • @mariaquiet6211
      @mariaquiet6211 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Or just toss the gender thing out and let people be.

    • @hyperboliccancers3269
      @hyperboliccancers3269 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@mariaquiet6211 They would not change much as you think. A "genderless society" would fuel these people to no end.

    • @heiskanbuscadordelaverdad8709
      @heiskanbuscadordelaverdad8709 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I think the term toxic masculinity doesn't help because it feels like an insult and that not only makes men more angry but also prevents them investigating about it thus perpetuating the ignorance

    • @BookishTexan
      @BookishTexan ปีที่แล้ว

      @@heiskanbuscadordelaverdad8709 So what you are saying is that men are so fragile that we have to be careful not to associate anything negative with masculinity because if we do they will react childishly and refuse to examine negative things that men do that make things bad for women....

  • @LuisTheFilmHack
    @LuisTheFilmHack ปีที่แล้ว +18

    At about 28:00 you mention how important it is for women to care about the well being of men. I think I fell in love with you when you said that! I've been thinking and saying that for years. Thank you for pointing this out Cinzia!

    • @miller_niki1982
      @miller_niki1982 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Men also need to stop shaming men for having basic human emotions and acknowledge that anger is an emotion. Men need to let each other cry, grieve and geek out when they need to. Women want men to be happy and healthy; we don’t want men to be broken, unhappy and lonely. But men need to do the work to get there. I’m happy to walk the road with you and encourage you when the road gets hard, just don’t make me responsible for the map.

    • @gilgameshkingofheroes5903
      @gilgameshkingofheroes5903 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@miller_niki1982
      In fact, men aren't the only ones who seem to forget how anger is an emotion.
      Everytime I hear women say they want their men to me more emotional it's only about sadness. And I mean ONLY sadness.

    • @LuisTheFilmHack
      @LuisTheFilmHack ปีที่แล้ว

      @@miller_niki1982 Please practice what you preach. Show some compassion to a man who's having a rough time.

    • @miller_niki1982
      @miller_niki1982 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@LuisTheFilmHack I’m so sorry you’re having a rough go of it, I genuinely am.

    • @miller_niki1982
      @miller_niki1982 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@gilgameshkingofheroes5903 Well, that’s not very helpful of those women. I’m not really interested in dating men, but I am raising two boys and I want them to be emotionally intelligent and open with how they’re feeling, be able to properly understand consent, and set healthy boundaries. I don’t shame or mock them for crying, showing joy when they’re happy or being angry. I explain my emotions when they are confused. (Mom’s not angry, she was just scared because she couldn’t find you and sometimes scared can look like mad.) I accept that my boys and all men are people and I want them to function like people who care about others and themselves.

  • @kieleleron85768
    @kieleleron85768 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    what a great message you are right that men seem to be left behind when it comes to this new world of equality that we are trying to create. The idea that we need to write a new script for men is absolutely essential and I appreciate that this is the conclusion that you came to rather than the more misanthropic suck it up version that is often heard online

    • @cmm5542
      @cmm5542 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      I wish somebody would realize that it's not about past vs present but right vs wrong. I am so tired of people arguing that things are wrong because they're 'outdated'. Being 'old' has nothing to do with whether it's right. There have been plenty of societies with healthy views on men and women in the past; there are plenty of NEW views that our oppressive. The answer isn't to tell men 'discard all past conceptions of masculinity and invent a new one', but 'choose the good versions of masculinity to emulate regardless of what time period they are from, not the bad ones.' And the same for women. It's not rocket science really, and it's also not really historical.

  • @douniamessaoudi
    @douniamessaoudi ปีที่แล้ว +13

    You are so articulate and engaging it's inspiring! Thank you for your wonderful content

  • @SlvtSammichArchive
    @SlvtSammichArchive ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Excellent video, as somebody who is very passionate about feminism, sociology and history, this was a wonderful blend. Would be keen on more retrospective analysis of modernity through the lens of history in the same vein.

  • @elizabethmcfadden3615
    @elizabethmcfadden3615 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    So looking forward to this! I’ll always wait for your content!

  • @Just.a.person59
    @Just.a.person59 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people - Eleanor Roosevelt

  • @Gojirosan
    @Gojirosan ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Exceptional video. Thank you, Cinzia, this was important x

  • @winterburden
    @winterburden ปีที่แล้ว +92

    Thank you so much Cinzia, let's hope that sometime in the future all these misogynists can be relegated to ancient history!

    • @Jack-zf3rz
      @Jack-zf3rz ปีที่แล้ว +6

      I honestly love how they claim to be "alphas" and "real men" and have never swung a hammer in their lives.

    • @trollymctrollface
      @trollymctrollface ปีที่แล้ว +5

      What does swinging a hammer have to do with sex or gender or social status?

    • @Jack-zf3rz
      @Jack-zf3rz ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@daviga1 yes and no. I also mean it literally. They've never done the jobs they claim only men can do. I'm proud of being a man myself. I also treat others with respect, I'm always willing to listen to opposite sex, I try to push for more women in tbe trades, and I've actually worked hard manual labor since 12 years old. I'm hard like a man should be, but soft hearted and caring as well. But I raised by my grandfather who had strong work ethics and was very progressive in his way of thinking. I like to think of myself of a hybrid between old school and new school ways of thinking.

    • @trollymctrollface
      @trollymctrollface ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@Jack-zf3rz "hard like a man should be," seems like an ableist sentiment- at best, tbh

    • @Jack-zf3rz
      @Jack-zf3rz ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@daviga1 oh absolutely, the hardest workers on site are often women lol. My first journeyman was a woman. She worked harder then most men I know lol.

  • @joaofld
    @joaofld ปีที่แล้ว +27

    I found your channel today and I find this subject very interesting. I also studied gender issues in my graduate school, but from a male perspective: how patriarchy affected father-son relationships. I studied this by looking at the relationship between characters in contemporary Brazilian novels that have this relationship at the center of their plot.
    I was very interested in the bibliography of your study. If you can share some reading recommendations, I would be very grateful.

    • @susanfraase3750
      @susanfraase3750 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Read about Harry and king Charles

    • @l.s.d.5863
      @l.s.d.5863 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      If you're unaware of it, you might find interest in Frederick the Great of Prussia, and his father. And perhaps Alexander the Great and his father, though there's far less detailed and reliable information to be had in the latter.

    • @auroramacula
      @auroramacula ปีที่แล้ว +2

      você poderia compartilhar tua bibliografia? quais romances que focam neste relacionamento como tema central?

    • @joaofld
      @joaofld ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@auroramacula OI, Aurora. Vou escrever em português e usar o google tradutor pra postar uma resposta em inglês.
      Na minha tese estudei 3 romances: O Filho Eterno, de Cristovão Tezza; Ribamar, de José Castello; e Galileia, de Ronaldo Correa de Brito.
      Mas, tb, acabei de ler Diário da Queda, de Michel Laub.
      Todos esses livros tratam da relação pai e filho.
      Hi, Aurora. I will write in Portuguese and use google translator to post an answer in English.
      In my thesis I studied 3 novels: O Filho Eterno, by Cristovão Tezza; Ribamar, by José Castello; and Galileia, by Ronaldo Correa de Brito.
      But, also, I just read Diary of the Fall, by Michel Laub.
      All these books deal with the father-son relationship.

  • @kmcg959
    @kmcg959 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    This was a fantastic video, thank you. I'm a teacher and we're dealing with a number of teenage boys who are influenced by Tate et al. It's incredibly difficult to know how to handle it and, honestly, not to be angry when they're spouting sexist rhetoric, especially when I've also got plenty of girls and LGBTQ+ students in the same room.
    All we can do is try and educate about why this philosophy is flawed but it is immensely difficult. I wish there was an easy answer. At least now I feel somewhat fore-armed with some historical facts to combat the misinformation!

    • @marrymejohn
      @marrymejohn ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Just out of curiosity how popular is Tate amongst teen boys? I am a 30 y.o. man and really the extent to which young men are being radicalized is a bit of a question mark for me. Like I get that grifters like Tate and Peterson exist but have no idea the extent of penetration.

    • @kmcg959
      @kmcg959 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @Bish_Bosch Honestly, I've been a little bit surprised by how pervasive it is. There's been a lot of media hype, as there ever is with teenage fads, but we have definitely been dealing with quite a few boys who seem to be buying in to the rhetoric.
      For context, I work in quite a small rural secondary, so we probably don't see the numbers that other schools might, and it isn't like every other child is on the turn, but definitely a notable change - I've only personally dealt with one in my lessons but he was quite vocal and insistent about it. It wasn't pleasant! I know of at least half a dozen other incidents of varying levels thst colleagues have dealt with, and this is all just since Christmas (we've been back a week and a half!)
      On the flip side, there are plenty of kids - more than those who support it by a long shot - who mock Tate and openly disparage his views, so that's positive!

  • @thefrenchmode
    @thefrenchmode ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Very insightful and resourceful video as always

  • @leftcoaster67
    @leftcoaster67 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Maybe we should set him up with Bear Ears, what a dynamic duo that would make!

  • @andreafranke8771
    @andreafranke8771 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Once again you have hit it out of the park girl! So all well stated!

  • @macb6528
    @macb6528 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    this was a very good video. you have a very nuanced take

    • @CinziaDuBois
      @CinziaDuBois  ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I appreciate that!

    • @phuckU3621
      @phuckU3621 ปีที่แล้ว

      🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

  • @dicorockhimself
    @dicorockhimself ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I mean when you where mentioning the things that Romain empire I always remember the fact they drank from led cups...lol

  • @barlow949
    @barlow949 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    This is the last channel I expected to talk about Tate, and yet it is the one I appreciate the most

  • @dgetzin
    @dgetzin ปีที่แล้ว +3

    it isn't Cleopatra's fault that Marc Antony was an idiot. Julius Caesar seemed to get along quite well with her.

  • @ac8123
    @ac8123 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Unrelated to the video but I absolutely love your voice

    • @CinziaDuBois
      @CinziaDuBois  ปีที่แล้ว +2

      aw thank you (:

    • @phuckU3621
      @phuckU3621 ปีที่แล้ว

      🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 sure

  • @LeoOwnsWwe
    @LeoOwnsWwe ปีที่แล้ว +10

    As a Muslim, I found his pathetic little stunt of 'joining' Islam to try and clean his image a total disgrace. He's a sad little man who will hopefully rot for eternity in a Romanian prison.

    • @cad5017
      @cad5017 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I’m not religious, but yes, Andrew Tate is definitely an insult to not only religion but an insult of men / the human race as well.

  • @edwardturner5075
    @edwardturner5075 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I'm actually looking forward to this video. never thought that I would utter those words when Andrew Tate in the title😂

  • @norcimorci
    @norcimorci ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I forgot how much I enjoyed watching your videos. Thank you!

  • @stormGod9999
    @stormGod9999 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    very well put. from a previous red piller myself, before things took am far right turn, I believe your perspective brings a lot of light and truth to a perspective that is going down a very dark dark place. woman should never be the only blame when life takes a left turn. so many factors at play a healthy individual can never truly put the blame on one side or gender.

  • @DaglasVegas
    @DaglasVegas ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This has become my favorite TH-cam channel, even when the subject matter is repellent, it's a joy to see a new video is out.

  • @dreamsofhoya
    @dreamsofhoya ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Such a refreshing perspective. Love it! Newer subscriber and thoroughly enjoying your content thus far :) Keep up the amazing work!

  • @cramerfloro5936
    @cramerfloro5936 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    I’m glad for your conclusion analysis on the necessity of creating a new model of masculinity. If certain issues are recognised and confronted by ignorant monsters like Tate, who don’t understand how to solve them except for "going back", we’re never gonna get over them.

  • @jessicalubenko4802
    @jessicalubenko4802 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    A much needed and beautifully done video ✨chef's kiss✨

  • @danalden1112
    @danalden1112 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Such a great discussion with detailed and sourced arguments 👏

  • @darthfiende1
    @darthfiende1 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    Thank you for this. It's so refreshing to see a woman address misogyny without resorting to misandry.

  • @afabfemboymusic
    @afabfemboymusic ปีที่แล้ว +15

    this was an absolutely lovely video that went in directions i was not expecting

  • @Boggythefroggy
    @Boggythefroggy ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I’m going to just say this - there are a ton of people talking about a healthier masculinity not caged within conservative masculinity - and those people are feminists. I know a lot of people don’t know this for some reason but it’s out there, and not to mention queer, leftist and trans men talk a lot about this! I’ve watched countless videos of men going over how masculinity is a prison the way it is constructed and why it doesn’t need to be like this etc but it just doesn’t get picked up in the algorithm for some reason. I know FD Signifier’s videos discussing the manosphere got some traction I believe but I just wish people paid more attention.

  • @jemborg
    @jemborg ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Great work as per usual. I really love your work... So enlightening.

  • @bludluva
    @bludluva ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Ohhh, I can’t WAIT for this one!!! 😆

  • @kristinapaxton9686
    @kristinapaxton9686 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    People point to past empires like the Romans as the ideal - citing examples that citizens didn't need to work etc....they forget they may not have had to work because they had slaves.

  • @mattrosvally9030
    @mattrosvally9030 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I love your video. Thank you for sharing this.

  • @libbylee9722
    @libbylee9722 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I have no idea who Tate is but listening to your argument is awe inspiring. The breakdown you give is so compelling and well researched not to mention a delight to listen to.

  • @TheEdmond30
    @TheEdmond30 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    .....when you eat both pills and just get high...

  • @noodletribunal9793
    @noodletribunal9793 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    i care very much about the damage people like tate do to the world and i want to stress that this is far from a "white male" thing. the 3 young men in my life with the misfortune of falling into this man's step are black or hispanic. i worry that relegating this to a "straight white male" problem comes off as like a strawman and makes it harder for people to take seriously.
    though there is probably something to it with race since all 3 of these acquaintances are very race focused in different ways. idk you gotta be superficial and think in over generalized terms to believe in misogyny in the first place. not far from racism at all

  • @clwho4652
    @clwho4652 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    These people keep looking at the past, wanting to go back to that past. But that past led to the present, the problems of the past lead to the problems of the today.
    Women went into the work place because they wanted more opportunities, but women also needed to. Stagnating wages meant that families couldn't survive as they had been, on a single income. Today this means if a woman _or man_ who want to be a stay at home parent cant afford to they need two incomes to survive. When women entered the work force they faced opposition harassment, opposition and harassment they are still facing to this day which is what led to the Me Too movement.
    Conservative culture puts a greater emphases on masculinity, they are also more anti-intellectual, not valuing and sometimes looking down on knowledge and education. We live in a world where education is becoming more necessary even for work that didn't need it in the past. Those raised in anti-intellectual communities and or families didn't get the education they needed, this holds them back, reduces their potential income and increases theirs and societies problems.
    Through out all of this, the old rich white men who run congress, the senate, and the corporations are benefiting from this. They don't value the employee, the customers, or the people, they value the shareholder, the executive, and wealth. They benefit from racism, sexism, transphobia, anti-intellectualism, nativism, and nostalgia. They use these to distract people from the real problems and their causes (them), to create scapegoats for problems, and to keep people from seeing them as what thy are, the real problem in the modern world. People like this Andrew Tate are nothing more but their pathetic pawns.

  • @Blindriverside
    @Blindriverside ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I don’t know how to explain why the tone and phrasing when you call him “this chap” sounds to my ears like the most grievous burn I’ve ever heard 😂🖤👏

  • @Paradoxical_96
    @Paradoxical_96 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    As a straight, white man I am of the opinion that this man should be stripped of his platform and tried for hate crimes. This is a prime example of what happens when "free speech" is abused. People like this make me sick, and it's very cathartic to see someone call him out. Keep up the wonderful work Lady of the Library, your videos are always delightful.

    • @maheenm.k1015
      @maheenm.k1015 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Oh hun, he is being tried for a looot more than sex crimes. He is being tried for human trafficking and succh offenses.

  • @gracewheeler20
    @gracewheeler20 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What I find so interesting is when one asks, what does it mean to be a woman? The answer is incredibly unrestrictive and continually expanding, but when it comes to what it means to be a man, the answer is rigidly narrow and shrinking. Excellent video.

  • @glittercans6786
    @glittercans6786 ปีที่แล้ว

    from 24:45 onward perfectly incapsulates my feelings and thoughts on this subject!
    wonderfully put.

  • @gozer87
    @gozer87 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wow, thorough breakdown and excellent conclusion.

  • @jessthemess2284
    @jessthemess2284 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Fantastic video - more people need to see this.

  • @Nkosi766
    @Nkosi766 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You summed it up perfectly.

  • @biancaprofiran4076
    @biancaprofiran4076 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    My cats gathered around to listen to you! you are absolutely right and i loved your arguments.

  • @299meena
    @299meena ปีที่แล้ว +22

    I was just talking to my uncle about this yesterday and he sighed and said, "He's just a western version of the Taliban, I wonder how people don't see that!"

  • @alien6147
    @alien6147 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The comment section being so imaginative💀☕️
    Chill sisters or atleast watch whole podcasts instead of seeing watching tiktoks

  • @anthonyproffitt5341
    @anthonyproffitt5341 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video with a great message to close it.

  • @lynnoorman2144
    @lynnoorman2144 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    An interesting explanation of the Andrew Tate issue. Thank you. I refused to engage with the sensationalist media storm but your explanation was clear as is your suggestion that men now need our compassion. I am the mother of 2 young men suffering because of these idenity issues and empowered agressive women who have had lighted them for years. The sooner we can all become people with differing skill sets and attributes the better!

  • @RU81111
    @RU81111 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    The title has me really excited for this vid!

  • @jimbrittain402
    @jimbrittain402 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Can I say one more time that I love the music of your voice? The scholarship and information isn't bad, either, but the sound is just a delight.

  • @AliensAreNoobs
    @AliensAreNoobs ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I knew what I was going to find by sorting comments by newest, yet I did it anyway. And it was _still_ worse than I expected.

    • @fr0stw0lf97
      @fr0stw0lf97 ปีที่แล้ว

      What do you mean by that?

  • @carly885
    @carly885 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Very excited for this 😅

  • @ZyllasAthenaeum
    @ZyllasAthenaeum ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Great video, Cinzia!

  • @stephaniex90
    @stephaniex90 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Absolutely wonderful video

  • @vanyakalinka8305
    @vanyakalinka8305 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    If Andrew Tate is freed, I hope to see a sit down long form talk with him and Cinzia and have Cinzia lecture him about misogyny and "toxic masculinity". That'd be a riot.

  • @MQuadrucci
    @MQuadrucci ปีที่แล้ว

    Daaaaaaaaaamn. I've heard the passion, logic, sense before, but I don't think I've heard this subject worded quite so splendidly (the last five minutes or so... your concluding thoughts)!

  • @mayaflici374
    @mayaflici374 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    You're doing the lord's work here 💖

  • @justmechilling...
    @justmechilling... ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks!

  • @cadenceclearwater4340
    @cadenceclearwater4340 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The library is definitively open 👓

  • @donovangomez8114
    @donovangomez8114 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    You fight a war, tell me how it goes

    • @susanfraase3750
      @susanfraase3750 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Against Putin,. Bad...just sayin

  • @ReincarnatedMystic
    @ReincarnatedMystic ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thank you