Why it's so hard to hover an FPV racing drone
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Why is it so hard to hover an FPV racing drone? This video will go over all the reasons it's hard to maintain altitude and hover, including some suggestions about how to fix it.
Thanks to Liftoff Drone Racing Simulator for building a model of my house so I can fly in the sim on days when it's nasty outside. If you want to fly at my house, Liftoff is available on Steam at: store.steampow...
This made me feel much better, I have been able to fly around pretty well. But I found a tutorial to learning to fly and lesson 1 was hovering with some drills and I barely was able to do that, and I thought I just overall sucked haha. Thank you for explaining ground effect and everything in this video!
Good instructions and explanations. I trained a lot by hovering line of sight, then "walking the drone", then flying a lot in the sim FPV. I also had the impression that that flying simple race courses in a simulator after the initial stages is a good way to practice because you are somewhat forced to fly first this turn, then that turn and so on. In the beginning you crash maybe 30 times after the first gate, then you manage two gates, then more and more, then a whole lap for the first time (yayyy!), then you shout out because you crash 100 times just before finishing the third round (and the race) and then you manage your first recorded finishing time (congratulations! :-)).
Great discussion. I'm learning Acro in sims (to fly my Mobula8, which I've taken out twice and will again this weekend) and am loving it. I started in DRL and Velocidrone and when I was starting to get the hang of it and getting frustrated with the map sizes, I treated myself to Tryp. I absolutely love Tryp. The big, diverse maps have given me lots to look at and fly around and through. I was originally flying with 20 degrees, but moved to 40 degrees last night. I feel like 40 has given me a greater speed range (and/or I'm just getting better). I've been spending 30-60+ minutes a day in the sim and I see improvements every day.
This Liftoff level (Bardwell's Yard) is how I found JB. After I flew around it a few times I was like "Who's this Bardwell guy? And why does he get his own map?"
I get it now. Great map too. Small but effective. Something poetic about that.
Wow Liftoff Joshua has more hair and green grass and leaves. Glad you're doing this, it will help a lot of new pilots.
More sound effects to add to the list. Really want to see a JB edition of Open TX sounds/narrations for my Tx16s
No No No Joshua! The quad doesn’t fly because it shoves air molecules down into the ones below them! That’s a side effect! The blade creates a low pressure area above it, the atmospheric pressure below actually pushes up on the blade to try to equalize the pressure. It’s all Bernoulli. It happens on both sides of the blades, that’s why blades, wings, ect often are curved along their length, allowing the top surface to have slightly more length, and therefore slightly more area to create negative pressure along the top; IE Lift. Love your work bro! Couldn’t have gotten anywhere without you!
Conservation of momentum is also a contributor to creation of lift. You can still generate lift with a flat fan blade that is not an airfoil and has no Bernoulli Effect.
Waiting on my first drone/nanowhoop to show up now. I appreciate you and your channel for helping me thus far. I already want to build a o3 3" to explore the neighborhood
Good luck!
Back in 1994 I started flying RC helis. I blew a fortune on spares and repairs. Thankfully the CSM flight sim arrived before I threw the towel in and within an hour of firing it up, I was hovering (although nose in would take considerably more time to master). As Joshua says, honing your skills on a sim is one of the most prudent financial decisions you'll ever make! And the RC heli / quad skillset transfers directly to flying full size helis too. 😉
I recently started using Liftoff and I’ve been getting a kick out of virtually flying at your house!
I must have learned to hover back in my RC heli days. Nose-in LOS felt like a big step!
Me too, totally agree on nose in learning.
Thanks so much for this video! I am just learning to fly acro and look forward to using your drill to be able to fly more smoothly and with better control. Thanks for taking the time to help us newbies, I really appreciate your clear explanations!
Best way I learned to hover FPV in Acro is with a shovel. Stick the shovel in the ground about 20 feet away from another vertical object (like a tree or fence post), then hover directly in front of the shovel keeping your altitude constant and keeping the other object lined up directly behind the shovel.
This is called using a parallax and its how I trained myself. Excellent technique for learning.
That shovel is going to have some dents lmao.
Joke apart, that's a good idea, i'll be doing that.
Thanks! Was just defeated with my drones and just decided to work on my ground effect control to get used to smaller adjustments. Got through 2 packs just balancing and working on finding that happy place it likes to float. A+ video
Yup like flying at your house! You've taught me most of what I know about quadcopters,thanks. I bought liftoff through your link, hope it helps. Just started the sim yesterday. Thanks for all the tips! Really help
Perfect timing. Got my friend started in fpv. Sim and whoops for now. Sending him this lesson now. Happy flying. 🤓
Hardest part of this is not being able to see forward. I have flown for 1.5 years and still can barely do this in fpv. If you need to hover for safety or something and can't land, just go a bit higher and do little dives to see down. Or you can circle
Hey Joshua, quick correction from an aircraft mechanic:
The believe that lift comes from the air being redirected downwards so that after newtons law there’s an equal reaction pushing the airfoil up is wrong but very common due to the intuitiveness of that explanation.
That effect of course takes place but only creates a small amount of lift or in case of a propeller thrust.
In fact, simplified most of the thrust comes from the difference in airspeed below and above the airfoil since due to profile and angle of attack the air has to travel further on at the top, lowering the static pressure since the dynamic pressure increases and the total pressure must remain the same.
That way the airfoil / propeller blade is sucked up much rather than pushed up. In fact the relation between these forces is as high as 80ish % of thrust only being the result of the „suction“.
There have been people arguing that this is not the source of lift since air molecules of course can’t communicate with each other and tell the one going over the top „hey buddy, you need to hurry up so we meet at the back“.
So why to the molecules over the top accelerate?
The answer is the starting vortex. When the airfoil first starts moving, respectively when the prop starts turning; in the VERY first moment there is air being pushed downwards at the trailing edge because of the angle of the airfoil.
This creates a starting vortex that line a whirlpool curls up and vortexes.
That starting vortex detaches from the airfoil but what remains is the induced circular flow around the airfoil. This flow flows around the airfoil or propeller blade as long that it moves through air and flows like this:
On the underside it flows to the front of the airfoil and on the topside it flows to the back of the airfoil.
THAT is what slows the airflow dune underneath the airfoil and makes it accelerate on top of it.
ok timmy
thank you, very interesting
@@MANZY-cp3ls You don’t have to learn stuff. You can stay dumb. No one forces you. But in this hobby a lot of people are actually interested in the physics behind flying. So that comment wasn’t for you.
@@sioul2006 idk it sound like a thing a timmy would say
Josh, I have been using your land in lift off. Thank god you dont have to replace all the window and hole in the roof I made for you with lift off. :)
That Roma F5 is missing some parts from the camera cage. Looks like it's been through some testing lately :)
Taking off the throttle-ratchet was exactly what my flying needed. Hovering is now smooth, as opposed to really sketchy yesterday. Thanks!
4:24 how do you write reaches like the thing I should remove
I've found a good way to hover and fly slowly and precisely.
I've set a switch to have Angle mode, very low rates, 10 degree tilt limit, 50% scaled throttle and max expo on it.
It's almost perfect to maneuver it through tight spots and land it precisely. I'm able to take off and land it from my car's roof, and reach it through the sunroof.
I wish betaflight had a good altitude hold mode, to use with a barometer. Then it would be perfect.
Newbie here would appreciate learning how to do this, esp getting one switch to do all this in mid flight
Excellent idea thanks !
I know many people don't like curved response curves; but personally, I like setting up throttle expo and mid so that at the center of the throttle stick the thrust is at about neutral buoyancy when the quad is flat, and with the expo adjusted so that there's a bit more fine-grained control around that throttle point. It does take a bit of trial and error to get it just right though.
this is good video explaining how quads fly. too many people who fly still don't understand. good job Joshua
I knew that was your house, freakn awesome with the hole on the fence you always fly through.
Fantastic explanation thank you 💚
Throttle management is key on a quad, use of a Eachine E010 is great to understand it, and get the necessary muscle memory.
Another thing is throttle résolution: it took 3 years for the community to understand it was stupid to have 1200°/s of rates, but it seems they still haven't understood you need expo on throttle...
Motor torque is huge at low Rpm, and linearly decreases with Rpm,so you need more résolution at the bottom of the stick than at the end, you need expo!
HOLY F joshua. I have never really been a fan of yours. I have not flown in or watched FPV videos in a year or more. I thought I wouls see what you are upto and you look fricken ripped man. Well done.
I'm a noob and I can go thru some of the race tracks in lifhtoff 100kmh but cant do it slow hover 5kmh lol
I hovered mine right into the side of my head. I think I need to round out the curves big time! And maybe clipping the top ends like training wheels.
Yoooo you quad racing guys are utterly crazy. You controll fine movements of drones inside a 1mm distamce of stick movement on controller. Why???? I respect all those guys who are capable of doing this and I will spend as much time as it takes to be able to fly my drone in acro mode. I dont give up and I adjust controller set up to the point when I float my drone as a feather. It wont happen in the near future but real men are up for fix difficulties :-) thanks for the video it helps a lot
Guess who is going to have the coolest dad at career day.
Nice tip on the ratchet mechanism. I’ve got my Taranis sorted now 🙏🏻✌🏻🇬🇧
Soooo damn cool to have your home featured in the sim. I really enjoy learning in that map.
OMG! you got me.... I was like "what kind of camera is he using? Everything looks so green and vibrant! Almost digital" lol
2:05 quadcopters fly because of the 3rd law of Newton. `Every action has an equal and opposite reaction`. When you push the air molecules down with 100N you will also receive 100N in the opposite direction
You are a don, thank you very much. I am removing throttle ratchet immediately from my X9D Plus. In LiftOff I am so rubbish, I am more concerned about being able to pilot than in successfully building my drone. My AOS UL7 EVO should should arrive in five days - then the fun begin. Thanks again...
I fly around your house on LiftOff. I have a song I sing when flying at your house. Over the Chicken coop through the woods around Bardwells house we fly..... LOL. Aww that poor Roma looks so sad lol I just finished building my 2nd Roma F5 a few hours ago and I put Shark Byte and Crossfire on it. I love the Roma so much that I bought two and I just got Shark Byte two days ago and I put it on both. I really Like the Shark Byte I have never used DJI so with only analog to judge with its AMAZING. I caught myself just staring at the geese on the pond the first day and being amazed at how beautiful the view was.
Quads fly via an equal and opposing Newtonian reaction to the quads action of accelerating air downward.
Firs time drone user. Bought an entry level drone and can't trim it. As soon as I raise it off the ground it starts racing forward and doesn't respond to trim inputs. Seems like I should throw it in the bin.
Is there any fpv drones that can do freestyle right out of the box no bets flight or anything?
Yep, buy a DJI.
I spent 4 months practicing in the sim before my first real life flight. It took some time to get the hang of things after flying irl. Also, in the sim, you have nothing to lose but irl, you can end up in $100s in damages if you crash so I tend to be more careful. Anyway, my point is that learning in the sim was super worth it. I now dive mountains and do flips and rolls without thinking too much. I think I should start an fpv channel
Fantastic tips, Joshua! Thanks a lot! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
You need 💎🙌 to maintain throttle control lol
Haha YES
I mean just hold right?
HODL
That's why flying below zero is always a challenge
Hodl the throttle like your $GME ! Or ask other apes to help
"Ratcheting stick" 😂 is that the technical term i should look up not an anlog stick as compared to a controller with a digital stick.....this is not a negative, thank you for making the hobby far more easily approachable. Your videos got my 9 year old nephew into the hobby. Its been funny having something i love so much that my nephew is interested in. 👍🏼😁
Thank you, best tutorial for pratice from 0 skill 😅. I'm from Brazil and you help me a lot.
In physics the thrust vector would be drawn in the direction of the force, so up, not down, and forward not back. Like you are being pulled, not pushed.
Physics helps immensely unless, like me, you overthink it. But a diagram of all forces thrust, gravity and air drag can cut right to what’s actually going on in, say, a power loop.
Joshua ! you do have a ratcheted throttle stick on your current Radiomaster TX16S !
I opened mine to fine tune it, you have one for the tension and one for the ratcheting. Just letting you know !
Great video man
I know it has a ratchet, but I have removed it.
@@JoshuaBardwell I didn't know you could do that ! Thank you !
I’ve been flying for a few years now and hovering didn’t start getting easy until I learned tuning lol. Stock pids are great but let’s be honest they just get you in the air and handle decent. I have yet to find any stock tune that isn’t loose feeling at idle much less flying
I love flying around your house. Lol its awesome you make better use of the layout better than me and man its hard to hit that fence gap . I feel like it would be easier in real life.
Propeller is rotating wing and you forget the Bernoulli's principle part of the lift, ground effect rises pressure underside of the wing...
Although this video is not for me.
I love how you explained what the props are doing at 2:00 by mentioning "pushing on the air molecules below it" instead of talking about the higher air pressure on one side of the props and lower pressure on the other and so on... 😴
This tutorial is very good. I assume like many new comers to your channel, exploring your vast library is well worth the effort. Could you recommend several Simulators to learn on? Unless I just can not find it, do you have tutorials on learning to fly? Like this one... it really will be watched several times. Thanks.
Try velocidrone. Search TH-cam for velocidrone how to fly they have a tutorial series.
You are such a nice mentor, i just bought Liftoff because of your guidance and Rotor Riot history, new on the fpv world, but can you share your rates if is possible?
First rule of the Rates Club: You don't talk about your rates. Jokes aside, someone other's rates will almost never help you getting a stick feel you like. I would suggest starting with 800 deg/s on all axis, flying 20 packs (over several sessions), doing some changes, rinse, repeat. Rates are strictly personal preference. Some freestylers fly 1200 deg/s, some racers 400 deg/s, some have very high expo (not necessarily the value called "expo" but something that makes the sticks less sensitive in near the center) some use linear rates.
@@Gosuminer oh! thanks a lot for your explanation and advice, i will do that starting today, im on baby steps on this FPV world at this moment, highly appreciate it!
you should do #3Packsaday liftoff edition. thatd be dope
Nice beginner pilot video. Another nice one could be how to start in liftoff: which quad? what rates?
This is good JB. I appreciate videos like this since I'm trying to learn to fly acro.
That's awesome . the layout of your property is 3d rendered as part of the simulator .
The "Uncrashed" simulator is pretty awesome too. Unreal Engine graphics - just wow.
You know you're the bomb when you get your own land in a game 🎮
Had the idea I was going into go out and flip roll and do all kind of stunts straight after practicing tons on the simulator. How I was so wrong! Drift and bounce is something you really don’t experience in simulator and the nerves of crashing makes you sketchy, the slightest of wind can cause massive drift.
Joshua's map does not have a high degree of difficulty but I'm constantly crashing into the trees. I still haven't control of the tighter levels. I'm way better at the wide open spaces like the golf course and construction site levels. I can't seem to get the same type of performance with my Liftoff either. The sim flies so much slower.
I just made a video about throttle control as well ! Mines assuming your alittle more advanced then this but im sure it will help !
Very nicely explained! All beginners need to watch this
Like driving a car on a straight road.
You make small left and right steering to go straight.
If you just held the steering wheel and did not move it at all you would eventually drive of the straight road.
Not an issue with most dji drones. But of course they are slow AF compared to racing drones. I'm looking for a receipe of speedybee/betaflight that emulates position hold like a dji.
Will, keep updating this comment as the video plays out. My questions are being answer as you go.
The little one is why I am a patron, my wife feels you can not be making money” flying all those toys. Around “ouch” whilepatrion I am spending thousands crashing them. She says you look like a great dad, so your son should want for nothing, started at at $1, pation, my wife say I have to atleast buy him a Big Mac , so she pushed me to $5. A month. I see more expense coming, we need a code word when my wife walks in and And you can hide kid. 😳 just kidding about your boy but not abound our monthly membership. You are worth every buck I push you way. I think your cool and very honest, you doing awesome work. Well if you can’t tell sleeping pills kicking in. Night
Thamnks Joshua, You break this down so well. I learnt something today.
Thank you! I was having a hard time but this video helped me understand better
haha, funny @ the end :-) Nice and thanks for this learning advice.Maybe good to add some advice for how to set up the simulator (which settings, which drone)?
Is there a firmware that enables us to hover automatically?
What would be required to add this feature?
Inav would do that, with GPS and compass sensor.
This is why I got liftoff in the first place ;) thanks for all the tips
13:19 do the noises help with maintaining precise throttle control? Or are the benefits limited strictly to when flying in your own garden (as in away from members of the public 🤫)?
Such beautiful property Joshua 👏💚
When I start drifting badly do a yaw spin and it shows my angle of my quad as u can see the horizon move up and down with camera tilt. Do a lil spin and I can get Into hovers alot easier.
Teaching my brother to fly, I told him.so many times, the reason you having trouble is because you too close to the ground, get it In the air before you start going all over the place..... he got it eventually....
Wow, thank you this have been having similar problem in another sim.
My first touch of the sticks I literally lost it it flew so high😂 but thanks to your videos I had a beeper on it
Thank you Josh for the great advice
Thanks so much! I’m beginning and it explains what I was experiencing
I was wondering if I suck or that is the nature of this. Thanks for clarifying.
i dont wanna seem creepy but they missed som foliage and that tree out front with the Y branch for knife edge gaps. thats how familiar your property is to me. lol great channel joshua
I've often found myself stifled in maneuvering around a moving object, in the world of FPV and not being able to fly backwards effectively. there's always the tilt up loose the object dynamic that's a pain in the ass. I think when DJI comes out with their proprietary FPV, they'll solve that issue with the ability to tilt the gimbal forward to compensate.
race drones were not made to fly backwords most shots where a drone is flying backwords is either video being rewound or people using the weight of the drone and its more being thrown back instead of flying thats why they have the octogon drones to move in all direction
@@myles8251 yeah, so I gather
I always thought that lift was because the air above the wings was moving faster than the air below the wings . Is it not the same for props on quadcopters ?
I think what you are referring to would be an asymmetrical air foil.
A prop is actually grabbing the air and throwing it in a direction
It's called vertical and horizontal component of lift. As the horizontal component of lift increases, the vertical component decreases.
Great video!! This helps me a lot as a beginner in FPV flight! :-) And the best of this video is this cute baby at the end of your video!! ;-) Best regards from Germany!!!
🤔I wonder if josh practices on the simu to be able to fly around his real home, or if he practices around his real home to be able to fly in the simu...
And above all, what happen if he decides to fly both at the same time? WIll he be capture in an other dimension like TRON ?
Is that a digital replica of Drew?
Great throttle control, the last frontier!
8:52 The Liftoff Bardwell house even has the missing rail on the fence!!! Wut?!?!?!
I like your narration in this video. You've selected few little cases and described them in the way which makes them simple. Great educational value!
If I ever have to live in a pod, and "own nothing and be happy", then at least I can play Liftoff and pretend I'm Joshua Bardwell from 2021 and before.
But you won't own a computer or a controller so you won't be able to play, sorry.
@@mapolinski r/whoosh
That was very helpful for a beginner thanks!
Hi Joshua. Great video for a beginner like me. I don´t want to invest in all the stuff just jet. Can you recommend a cheap controller for practicing in the sim? Later on I´d like to fly a cinewhoop for film making. I´m not going for hardcore acro or racing.
Thanks in advance!
just my opinion, to make hovering easy, i pump the throttle mid rate to 66 or 77, so that im hovering at 20-30% stick
without my contacts i actually couldn’t tell you weren’t flying outside.
At 2:10 my inner physicist facepalmed so hard I forgot how to do linear algebra. I even made an excuse for JB cuz I respect him so much. This teeny-weeny Newtonian lapse was that you actually meant to say: “air pressure differential causes the ground effect, only”.❤️. (Disclaimer, I’m not actually very good at linear algebra)
At 2:10 I was describing the source of lift, not the source of ground effect.
Joshua, so for indoor real state maybe Avata is a better choice than Cinelog ? Tks
So hovering an FPV drone in 3rd person? Much easier than in the google. All this stuff you talked about is valid, except that there is a new issue when you put the goggle on. Camera Angle. The biggest thing to overcome is getting used to your camera angle. It's obviously easier to do with a low angle. But even a slight angle has a drastic effect on your perception and flying. If you look straight forward and level, your going to be moving and going to have to increase thrust. When I started out this was a huge hurtle for not only hovering, but also landing. I had quite a few 5 foot or better disarms. BEEP............ THUD! What I did in the beginning, I used a reference point. My self. I would launch my quad pointing at me. Made a mental note of it. Hovered a bit. Took off. Landed. This way I could build a gauge in my head of where and how the quad was in space based on my self in the cam. When I cam in for a landing using this, I was able to very quickly set the quad down softly on the ground. However, general flight and stick time, you end up just getting to the point where you can hover and land in the goggle without even thinking. As you practice, you learn. Things get easier. Maneuvering the quad starts to get more effortless. Spaces which seemed small tend to get bigger. As in, a gap you thought was really tight, as you practice becomes less tight and more open. Initially it was hard to fly in tight closed in area's, and now it doesn't matter. I never started out with a Sim. Just built my quad, and flew it in Airmode from the start. Of course I slammed into my own head at like 40 MPH because I got cocky and thought I could buzz past my self, but using a sim has helped later on. It's stick time.
For a shaky beginner, would you recommend setting expo on my transmitter, or tweaking something in the flight controller's settings?
Hey Jb my radiomaster TX16S has some very wierd mulufunctions i have a video on my channel showing them. Please I really need help. I have to get flying again
If this doesn't help you, nothing will: th-cam.com/video/0RvQFaq-Pg8/w-d-xo.html - I do believe you have either corrupt SD card (or defective, that's a possibility and it's quite common), or corrupt installed firmware. Find a new SD card, and follow Joshua's advice. In that video, he even used the same radio I believe.
@@AddictedQuadroner I tried all of that and even swiched the SD card but still not working