This episode was made through no free will of my own 😉 Thanks for watching! 🤝 Spotify 🎧 podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/jsquinn X 🗣 x.com/JS__Quinn Crypto 📈 www.youtube.com/@WolvesOfCrypto_
So you are saying you are a determinist, and you use the word “determined” / “pre-determined” for the book that is you. So if you continue this logic then am I right to say you must believe in a writer of that book or one that has pre-determined your fate? Also aren’t your thoughts contextualised by your environment? Like the country you think of isn’t just random, your environment/past actions had an impact on why it came to mind. Your actions bring about change which you decide, not the other way around. Todays actions will be the building blocks of tomorrows thoughts.
@@clowny82 I am agnostic on the idea of a “writer of that book”. I accept the fact that I don’t know, and don’t try to pose an answer to a questions that humans can’t understand or prove. All of the posed “writers” are exceptionally flawed in my view. Yes, your thoughts are contextualised by your environment, but you don’t choose your environment and you don’t choose for specific thoughts to arise based on it or for absent thoughts to not. You simply receive the thoughts you recieve. Your reactions to these random thoughts are determined by your countless things, all of which out of your control, and exponentially more so if you trade the chain of causality.
@QUINN-JS also if i were you, I wouldn't leave your response to the hitler backlash youre likely to get to fate. Up the anzacs brother wolf gonna re listen to this.
It's half-true. If God is all-knowing, then fate is predetermined. God is the metaphysical precondition of causality. But within God's plan, we are able to make decisions freely due to our ability to make judgements. Forasmuch as man is rational, is it necessary that man have a free-will. These answers are not in competition with each other. Each explains a different aspect of the situation. You should expect a paradoxical answer from a Trinitarian.
Hey J so I am in 18 minutes in but I just wanted to say… I don’t believe in oracles however if there was to be such a power, what if she made the prediction based on the choice the father made?! So if he killed the child would any of this happened?! Thinking that no one is responsible for their actions or mannerisms would lead the world into chaos!!! Because everyone would do the most horrible things then claim that it was fate!!! Also, if your hypothesis was true that means that God is not fair!!! Because based on ones actions they would have eternity in heaven or in hell… If I was predestined for hell and there was nothing I could do about it then what was the purpose of life on earth?! We might as well have started in heaven or hell!!! We are here to be tested and based on our choices we are either rewarded or punished. So this is how I understand fate and free will. There are things that you can’t change… your parents, where you are born for example!!! however on daily basis you are given choices and you get to chose what to do or how to react!!! You pass a hungry beggar on the street you could get out of your way and go buy them a drink and a sandwich or just act like you didn’t see them and say I don’t have enough money to spare!!! Just because the so called since says that your brain knows what choice you will take but you don’t realize it on a conscious level yet that is based on your preferences and what you are comfortable with!!! That doesn’t prove anything!!!! If you wanted to pick a glass from the table your brain will decide give the order to your hand and there will be delay till you actually move… Demons can influence your thoughts and they can hear your thoughts however you have to make a choice at the end go to the gym or go to a brothel it is on you!!! Other wise on judgement day if god says I am going to hell I can object and say no you made me do this?! So why should I be punished?!
Also what if the oracle told the father that because she knew he wouldn’t kill the kid?! If one knew how a person thinks and how they are and know what options they will be faced with they can probably predict how things would turn out!!! However most oracles are liars because we are simpletons and want to hear things that would make us feel good about our selves and our choices!!! Only God knows the predestination of creation! If some one treated you badly you could have fought your self and programming and stood up for your self… Trust me you didn’t do the only thing you could have done! But that explanation could make you feel better about the past but it might fuck with your future
Few things, I don’t believe in god, many religions are hypocritical on the topic of free will, you will see a brief argument for this mid way through I’d encourage you to watch the rest, everything you mentioned on the negative implications of a deterministic universe is cleared up It’s important to remember that even if you disagree that the implications are positive, that doesn’t mean determinism isn’t true As for the Libet experiments, You're right that the brain has to process information and prepare for actions before they are consciously carried out. However, while it’s natural that the brain starts working before an action, Libet’s experiment challenges the idea that the conscious "you" is the true origin of your actions. It suggests that decisions might be made unconsciously, with conscious awareness coming afterward. This is akin to you thinking you made a choice when you merely have just become aware of the fact that a choice has been made, you didn’t actually make it as the brain and conscious mind are not the same.
You should think about that book you are talking about more like 7 or 10 books each has a different outcome based on different choices made!!! It is said that when one dies they actually get to meet their best self… they one who made all the best choices that they could have taken!!! It doesn’t matter how bad the past has been it is not too late for some one to get as close to the best self in the future…. If free will doesn’t exist then why did God make hell man?! God is perfectly just and he won’t punish the innocent man!!! If what you just described was true then that means God is not fair!!! And I would accept anything except that!!! GOD IS PURE PERFECTION AND PURE JUSTICE, PURE LOVE AND MERCY… Trust me you don’t got it right
Religion is mostly irrelevant here, focus on the actual philosophy. If the philosophy is incompatible with your religious beliefs that gives you something to flesh out on the quest for truth. If your religious beliefs trump everything else, even things you would otherwise agree with, then you can never be an honest thinker on any topic.
@@uncleboy01 you don’t know the whole story!!! The devil choose to corrupt people because God choose Adam over all beings he created to rule them all… but the devil thought he was better because he was made out of fire and Adam out of earth… he already thought he was better than angels because he was amongst them and they were made out of light… Like I said free will!!! Angels don’t have free will how ever humans and jinn do… not sure about animals and birds but that is what I know
You're disregarding Occam's Razor by proposing an overly complex hypothesis filled with unnecessary assumptions, rather than accepting the simpler explanation that we have free will. I completely disagree with this approach. The question you're posing is ultimately unanswerable because it's fundamentally impossible to verify. When you start questioning the very nature of reality, how can you expect to arrive at any solid conclusion when there's no means of proving it? The only reason you're holding onto this view is because you find some utility in it, but that doesn’t guarantee its correctness. If a hypothesis is inherently unverifiable because it questions unanswerable truths, then its validity should rest on its simplicity (in line with Occam's Razor) and the practical utility it offers. Rather than leading to definitive answers-since such certainty is unattainable-the goal should be to adopt a 'philosophy of life' or Weltanschauung that guides how we act and make decisions. In this way, the value of the hypothesis lies not in absolute truth, but in the framework it provides for living meaningfully. I believe in free will not because I can prove it with absolute certainty, but because it's a simpler assumption-we experience reality as if we have free will, and that belief provides far greater utility. On the other hand, embracing determinism offers little more than nihilism, which serves no productive purpose. You claim that determinism doesn't lead to nihilism, but you contradict yourself by immediately framing determinism as a form of 'liberation.' Isn't this supposed 'liberation' itself just another aspect of nihilism? The idea that 'you couldn’t have done otherwise' fosters passivity and discourages forward-thinking, which has profoundly negative effects on both character and morale. It undermines personal responsibility and ambition. A major flaw in your argument is that it directly contradicts human nature. Ignoring the complexity of situations and acting as though we have no agency goes against the way our brains have evolved to process the world. Natural evolution has wired us to analyze, plan, and engage with our environment. To reject that is to fight against fundamental biological truths, like stubbornly swimming against the current of reality itself. Your argument regarding 'prediction,' such as through AI, based on a deterministic view also doesn't hold up. Algorithms work by approximating probabilities using available data, but that doesn't equate to predicting the future in a deterministic sense. Humans do the same thing. If I see a rock falling, I can reasonably predict that it will hit the ground, because the probability of that outcome is extremely high. But how does that prove determinism? It's simply probability, rooted in the laws of nature and the reality we observe-not a confirmation that everything is predetermined. Predicting outcomes based on probability doesn’t imply that events are determined in advance; it merely reflects the likelihood of certain outcomes given the current conditions. Probability and determinism are not the same. Overall, I see a fundamental flaw in the way you're associating concepts that are in no provable way tied together. The leap from probability-based predictions to determinism is unwarranted. Furthermore, I see no practical utility in adopting determinism over free will. Free will not only aligns better with our lived experience but also offers a more empowering and meaningful framework for how we navigate life. Determinism, on the other hand, provides no clear advantage-neither in understanding reality nor in offering a better way to live.
I understand your points and disagree with them. Ockham razor is faulted in that it can apply differently depending on point of reference. I would claim that we already act with cause and effect in mind in most categories of human endeavors and hence the most simplistic explanation is that this cause and effect also applies to ourselves in full. "I only hold this view because I find utility in it" - how do you know? Free will is probably less provable than determinism. We utilize the chain of causality everywhere, just as the illusion of free will is built into us naturally, so is the understanding that actions have effects. In my view, the determinist argument has nothing to do with nihilism. If anything, it amplifies the magnitude of your actions and ensures that you take cause and effect very seriously. As for the probability disagreement, probability is only relevant to us because there's no way we can perfectly predict the future. Probabilities are guesses due to the fact that there are unpredictable variables. Us using probabilities as mortal, omnipotent humans, doesn't debunk the existence of a determined future - it just means we don't know for certain what that determined future is. I'm not sure if we'll find agreement, but thanks for watching and commenting mate! 🤝
@@QUINN-JS You can think of spirituality like a "genetic" trait-some people are more naturally inclined towards it than others. Just because you may not be good at football, it doesn’t mean it’s not fun. You’re an intelligent man, Quinn, and you know the odds are in your favor if you try this: pray to God and ask for the proofs you need to believe in Him. Do it sincerely, at least once. Sooner or later, He will answer. If He isn’t there, you’ll have only lost a few seconds or minutes of your time. But He is there and He will respond sooner or later, because He loves you! And your life will change! God bless you, man!
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This episode was made through no free will of my own 😉 Thanks for watching! 🤝
Spotify 🎧 podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/jsquinn
X 🗣 x.com/JS__Quinn
Crypto 📈 www.youtube.com/@WolvesOfCrypto_
interesting topic, one that I think philosophers have argued about over the centuries
If we believe in Free Will what are we trying to get free from and why?
So you are saying you are a determinist, and you use the word “determined” / “pre-determined” for the book that is you. So if you continue this logic then am I right to say you must believe in a writer of that book or one that has pre-determined your fate?
Also aren’t your thoughts contextualised by your environment? Like the country you think of isn’t just random, your environment/past actions had an impact on why it came to mind.
Your actions bring about change which you decide, not the other way around. Todays actions will be the building blocks of tomorrows thoughts.
@@clowny82 I am agnostic on the idea of a “writer of that book”. I accept the fact that I don’t know, and don’t try to pose an answer to a questions that humans can’t understand or prove. All of the posed “writers” are exceptionally flawed in my view.
Yes, your thoughts are contextualised by your environment, but you don’t choose your environment and you don’t choose for specific thoughts to arise based on it or for absent thoughts to not. You simply receive the thoughts you recieve. Your reactions to these random thoughts are determined by your countless things, all of which out of your control, and exponentially more so if you trade the chain of causality.
Whens the next vid coming
If i rewind and i dont know that i have ill watch it, if i rewind and i know that have i wont because i already watched it.
You wouldn’t have listened to the podcast if the universe was exactly the same upon rewinding, which is entailed in rewinding
Hha yo wolf responded, good stuff very analytical like your TA..
@QUINN-JS also if i were you, I wouldn't leave your response to the hitler backlash youre likely to get to fate. Up the anzacs brother wolf gonna re listen to this.
It's half-true. If God is all-knowing, then fate is predetermined. God is the metaphysical precondition of causality. But within God's plan, we are able to make decisions freely due to our ability to make judgements. Forasmuch as man is rational, is it necessary that man have a free-will.
These answers are not in competition with each other. Each explains a different aspect of the situation. You should expect a paradoxical answer from a Trinitarian.
Hey J so I am in 18 minutes in but I just wanted to say…
I don’t believe in oracles however if there was to be such a power, what if she made the prediction based on the choice the father made?! So if he killed the child would any of this happened?!
Thinking that no one is responsible for their actions or mannerisms would lead the world into chaos!!! Because everyone would do the most horrible things then claim that it was fate!!!
Also, if your hypothesis was true that means that God is not fair!!! Because based on ones actions they would have eternity in heaven or in hell…
If I was predestined for hell and there was nothing I could do about it then what was the purpose of life on earth?! We might as well have started in heaven or hell!!! We are here to be tested and based on our choices we are either rewarded or punished.
So this is how I understand fate and free will. There are things that you can’t change… your parents, where you are born for example!!!
however on daily basis you are given choices and you get to chose what to do or how to react!!!
You pass a hungry beggar on the street you could get out of your way and go buy them a drink and a sandwich or just act like you didn’t see them and say I don’t have enough money to spare!!!
Just because the so called since says that your brain knows what choice you will take but you don’t realize it on a conscious level yet that is based on your preferences and what you are comfortable with!!! That doesn’t prove anything!!!!
If you wanted to pick a glass from the table your brain will decide give the order to your hand and there will be delay till you actually move…
Demons can influence your thoughts and they can hear your thoughts however you have to make a choice at the end go to the gym or go to a brothel it is on you!!!
Other wise on judgement day if god says I am going to hell I can object and say no you made me do this?! So why should I be punished?!
Also what if the oracle told the father that because she knew he wouldn’t kill the kid?!
If one knew how a person thinks and how they are and know what options they will be faced with they can probably predict how things would turn out!!!
However most oracles are liars because we are simpletons and want to hear things that would make us feel good about our selves and our choices!!!
Only God knows the predestination of creation!
If some one treated you badly you could have fought your self and programming and stood up for your self…
Trust me you didn’t do the only thing you could have done! But that explanation could make you feel better about the past but it might fuck with your future
Few things,
I don’t believe in god, many religions are hypocritical on the topic of free will, you will see a brief argument for this mid way through
I’d encourage you to watch the rest, everything you mentioned on the negative implications of a deterministic universe is cleared up
It’s important to remember that even if you disagree that the implications are positive, that doesn’t mean determinism isn’t true
As for the Libet experiments, You're right that the brain has to process information and prepare for actions before they are consciously carried out. However,
while it’s natural that the brain starts working before an action, Libet’s experiment challenges the idea that the conscious "you" is the true origin of your actions. It suggests that decisions might be made unconsciously, with conscious awareness coming afterward. This is akin to you thinking you made a choice when you merely have just become aware of the fact that a choice has been made, you didn’t actually make it as the brain and conscious mind are not the same.
@@QUINN-JS I have watched the whole thing!!! So who do you think is in control of the brain that makes decisions then if you don’t believe in God?
You should think about that book you are talking about more like 7 or 10 books each has a different outcome based on different choices made!!! It is said that when one dies they actually get to meet their best self… they one who made all the best choices that they could have taken!!! It doesn’t matter how bad the past has been it is not too late for some one to get as close to the best self in the future…. If free will doesn’t exist then why did God make hell man?! God is perfectly just and he won’t punish the innocent man!!! If what you just described was true then that means God is not fair!!! And I would accept anything except that!!!
GOD IS PURE PERFECTION AND PURE JUSTICE, PURE LOVE AND MERCY…
Trust me you don’t got it right
God allowing the devil to corrupt us doesn't seem perfect.
Or just
Or pure
Religion is mostly irrelevant here, focus on the actual philosophy. If the philosophy is incompatible with your religious beliefs that gives you something to flesh out on the quest for truth.
If your religious beliefs trump everything else, even things you would otherwise agree with, then you can never be an honest thinker on any topic.
@@uncleboy01 you don’t know the whole story!!! The devil choose to corrupt people because God choose Adam over all beings he created to rule them all… but the devil thought he was better because he was made out of fire and Adam out of earth… he already thought he was better than angels because he was amongst them and they were made out of light…
Like I said free will!!! Angels don’t have free will how ever humans and jinn do… not sure about animals and birds but that is what I know
You're disregarding Occam's Razor by proposing an overly complex hypothesis filled with unnecessary assumptions, rather than accepting the simpler explanation that we have free will. I completely disagree with this approach. The question you're posing is ultimately unanswerable because it's fundamentally impossible to verify. When you start questioning the very nature of reality, how can you expect to arrive at any solid conclusion when there's no means of proving it? The only reason you're holding onto this view is because you find some utility in it, but that doesn’t guarantee its correctness. If a hypothesis is inherently unverifiable because it questions unanswerable truths, then its validity should rest on its simplicity (in line with Occam's Razor) and the practical utility it offers. Rather than leading to definitive answers-since such certainty is unattainable-the goal should be to adopt a 'philosophy of life' or Weltanschauung that guides how we act and make decisions. In this way, the value of the hypothesis lies not in absolute truth, but in the framework it provides for living meaningfully.
I believe in free will not because I can prove it with absolute certainty, but because it's a simpler assumption-we experience reality as if we have free will, and that belief provides far greater utility. On the other hand, embracing determinism offers little more than nihilism, which serves no productive purpose. You claim that determinism doesn't lead to nihilism, but you contradict yourself by immediately framing determinism as a form of 'liberation.' Isn't this supposed 'liberation' itself just another aspect of nihilism? The idea that 'you couldn’t have done otherwise' fosters passivity and discourages forward-thinking, which has profoundly negative effects on both character and morale. It undermines personal responsibility and ambition.
A major flaw in your argument is that it directly contradicts human nature. Ignoring the complexity of situations and acting as though we have no agency goes against the way our brains have evolved to process the world. Natural evolution has wired us to analyze, plan, and engage with our environment. To reject that is to fight against fundamental biological truths, like stubbornly swimming against the current of reality itself.
Your argument regarding 'prediction,' such as through AI, based on a deterministic view also doesn't hold up. Algorithms work by approximating probabilities using available data, but that doesn't equate to predicting the future in a deterministic sense. Humans do the same thing. If I see a rock falling, I can reasonably predict that it will hit the ground, because the probability of that outcome is extremely high. But how does that prove determinism? It's simply probability, rooted in the laws of nature and the reality we observe-not a confirmation that everything is predetermined.
Predicting outcomes based on probability doesn’t imply that events are determined in advance; it merely reflects the likelihood of certain outcomes given the current conditions. Probability and determinism are not the same.
Overall, I see a fundamental flaw in the way you're associating concepts that are in no provable way tied together. The leap from probability-based predictions to determinism is unwarranted. Furthermore, I see no practical utility in adopting determinism over free will. Free will not only aligns better with our lived experience but also offers a more empowering and meaningful framework for how we navigate life. Determinism, on the other hand, provides no clear advantage-neither in understanding reality nor in offering a better way to live.
I understand your points and disagree with them.
Ockham razor is faulted in that it can apply differently depending on point of reference. I would claim that we already act with cause and effect in mind in most categories of human endeavors and hence the most simplistic explanation is that this cause and effect also applies to ourselves in full.
"I only hold this view because I find utility in it" - how do you know?
Free will is probably less provable than determinism. We utilize the chain of causality everywhere, just as the illusion of free will is built into us naturally, so is the understanding that actions have effects.
In my view, the determinist argument has nothing to do with nihilism. If anything, it amplifies the magnitude of your actions and ensures that you take cause and effect very seriously.
As for the probability disagreement, probability is only relevant to us because there's no way we can perfectly predict the future. Probabilities are guesses due to the fact that there are unpredictable variables. Us using probabilities as mortal, omnipotent humans, doesn't debunk the existence of a determined future - it just means we don't know for certain what that determined future is.
I'm not sure if we'll find agreement, but thanks for watching and commenting mate! 🤝
Are you telling me that the Bible is not the word of God? 🤔
Yes
@@QUINN-JS You can think of spirituality like a "genetic" trait-some people are more naturally inclined towards it than others. Just because you may not be good at football, it doesn’t mean it’s not fun. You’re an intelligent man, Quinn, and you know the odds are in your favor if you try this: pray to God and ask for the proofs you need to believe in Him. Do it sincerely, at least once. Sooner or later, He will answer. If He isn’t there, you’ll have only lost a few seconds or minutes of your time. But He is there and He will respond sooner or later, because He loves you! And your life will change! God bless you, man!