Carvana didn't understand they needed 2 very important positions to accurately and quickly process the paperwork; 1. office managers and 2. DMV clerks, without them nothing gets accomplished.
And how much do you want to bet the positions they cut are in the administrative departments that handle DMV interactions and legal compliance because they don't see immediate returns from those positions the way they do with positions with a directly involved with generating sales.
@@mattstorm360 That's the 21st century business climate: Gimmicks. It's as if they believe that what something really is, is not as important as what it looks like...
actually the problem is they couldn't clear the leins in timely manner. can't sell a car without a clean title void of leins. we deal with it all the time. causes a perfectly fine vehicle to sit because of consumers high need for financing.
I had the exact same thing happen! I drove 30 minutes to a used car dealer for a particular car, it was "sold", and they proceeded to offer a much less desirable car. I was angry to say the least. But I kept my composure, agreed to the other car, we went through the paperwork for the other car, and at the last minute before signing, I simply got up and left. I later got a text and asked if I was still interested in the car that was sold - no kidding! So I responded to the text that I was not interested, but I inquired if they had available the less desirable car, to which the text replied that they did. So I arranged a time to come pick it up but I never showed up. Thank goodness I never heard from them again. They were probably tired of me lying to them like a used car salesman!
@@robeddy3722 Congratulations! You just picked the daily double. And the answer for today's daily double: this man is actually a woman. Oh, sorry, that is not the right response. The question we were looking for is: who is Rob Eddy? Yes, Rob Eddy. She used to go by Roberta. Unfortunately that puts you at $0 because you wagered everything. And that means you will be going home today. But at least you won't be leaving empty-handed, as we will be giving you the consolation prize of an Alex Trebek poster and his memories because he is no longer with us. Thanks for playing Jeopardy!
My daughter and her husband bought a car from Carvana and they kept sending them temporary tags from other states and couldn't produce the title. Sounds like a broken record!! The worst thing is that they kept their trade in so my daughter had no car to drive. Crazy!! Poor execution on their part. Thanks Steve!
Carvana has had their dealer license suspended in several states for failure to produce titles and documentation on vehicles they sold. I read about that nearly a year ago.
@@donreinke5863 They really screw people over when they do that. It ruins their reputation and eventually no one will buy from them and that's what is happening.
so in a nutshell, Carvana looked at the used car model of shady salesmen ripping people off and thought they could do it more efficiently with a computer.
@r_nelly…They paid me more than i owed on the used car…” that doesn’t tell us anything! Maybe you were close to payoff of your loan… Remember to compare apples to apples. What is the book value of the car you traded in? What did they give you?
Here’s a story along that vain. The vacation home community that my family belongs to recently tried to force people to eat at the clubhouse restaurant to stop it from going under. They asked my Dad - who runs a small business - to explain why it was financially necessary to the members. When my Dad took a look at their books, he found that it was so mismanaged that the cost of food was higher than the price they were charging to eat there. I still remember the long conversation with the chairman where we tried to convince her that she couldn’t make it up in volume.
Jackson Letts i worked for a company where a guy said they couldn't make money selling services at time and material rates. My response was "that's a pricing problem."
It seems to be a constant in car dealer advertisement, that the dealer that's been in business for 50 years tries to convince you that it's run by a bunch of incompetent idiots.
To your story, 10+ years ago my daughter found a car online in Peoria, IL. I called the dealer to make sure the vehicle would be available that evening to see. The salesperson said it would. We made the 2-1/2 hour drive. Did not see the car on the lot, and went in to see the salesperson. They happened to have taken the afternoon off…….we spoke with another salesperson that tried to show us another car because they sold that car in the morning. Even though I confirmed it’s availability at1pm. Within the next half hour I had $40 gas money and swore I would never recommend their dealership to anyone. In regards to Carvana, both of my children worked for them and both were able to leave prior to the fall. They saw the writing on the wall over a year ago.
I think I've been stood up for all my car dealer appointments, except one. I bought my car from that one. How these people keep their jobs is beyond me.
I worked at a dealership back in the day (early-mid 90s). One company had 6 Dealerships and all of the DMV paperwork for all Dealerships was done by a single person. We never had issues.
Until that one person took a two week vacation ... LOL But all jokes aside, yes, I get your point. Sometimes the less chefs in the kitchen, the better the recipe turns out.
Worked at a dealership and we had our F&I get the paperwork done with the customer and an assistant get it ready for the Ministry of Transportation (Canadian). Things went smoothly while I was there.
I saw a car online at BMW on Friday afternoon. I had a trade in. I was driving by Monday. It was a new vs used car transaction but I don’t see the car purchase drama. My dad has owned nothing but used - never an issue. He used the car for work and the elements just made a new car unreasonable. Maybe, because he paid cash?
Cavana, in theory, dealt with 48 State's DMV (actually RMV in 2). I would be surprised if the 6 dealership operation regularly dealt with more than 2 States.
@@arcanondrum6543 Actually we dealt with 3 regularly (Delaware, Maryland and Virginia). I am just saying, it shouldn't have been difficulty to have 1 person cover a state for carvana. Specifically now-a-days. Remember, we did this back in the 90's before computer automation was so fleshed out.
I worked for Carvana for about a year. It always shocked me that we had 5 Human Resources managers in our production center, but nobody working on getting titles for the cars. Carvana was mismanaged from the top down. I realized that and left thank god. *Small Edit- It seems to me that from what I saw working for the company the CEO and his father never had a plan to actually keep the company long term. Just wanted to pump it for as many dollars as they could then nose dive it so they could offload it.
I became aware of them a few years ago when I was looking for a new used car. Seemed dodgy from the start, practically an invitation to getting ripped off and/or tormented with paperwork hassles. I could never imagine that anyone would actually spend thousands of dollars on their "service".
I take my son with me to those places. He worked for a short time at a used car dealership and really gives the dealership a run for their money. So much so, that the guy upstairs that they always leave to talk to will come down and speak to him personally.
After spending over 20 years in the used car business, people often want me to go with them and be the "third baseman" as its called in the business. Ive seen every trick, and will head them off at the pass before they get two sentences out. I also have many years of experience in vehicle repair, ( I also did that for used car dealers) so I can give a vehicle an inspection for issues/potential problems in short order.
I think we caught a dealership in the bait and switch once and got a good deal out of it, though it was a bait and switch on price, not on the entire car. The last time I bought a car, which is now going on just over 20 years, it was some used 2003 Malibus that we went to look at that were used as a rental cars for 1 year and then got picked up at auction by the dealership. They showed on their website they wanted $9,000 for them and they had a few to choose from. So my dad and I went to the dealership. Well, they didn't have any from the $9,000 batch left, but they had an $11,000 batch of the 'same exact cars', 2003 Malibus, about 4 of them. Hmm, odd. I did test drive one and I liked it, it had about 24k miles on it and seemed great, but I didn't like that the price was 2k more than what the website said. Kind of felt like they were just lying to us about the $9,000 batch already being sold. But, the sales guy kept telling us that yeah the website was wrong, they only have them for $11,000. We ended up leaving, sort of hoping that they'd bargain with us to keep us from leaving but, they didn't. My dad saw later the same day the website still said $9,000 for the cars, so he called the dealer back up, asked if the manager could confirm this was true or not, and the manager said "Oh that sales guy doesn't know what he's talking about, come back in we'll sell you one for $9,000". Well, we went there and you could see it on the manager's face as he came out the doors when we arrived, he knew he'd screwed up. He admitted that yeah, they actually didn't have any for $9,000 but since he'd told us himself that they did, he'd let us have one of the $11,000 ones for $9,000. He asked if there was any particular color I didn't want and I said "anything but white" knowing that there was 1 that was tan, and 3 that where white, and the tan one was the car I had test drive earlier that I really wanted. You could see for a split second he was considering if he should try to argue his way out of it, but then he said, "Ok" and I got my 2003 Malibu for $9,000. Still runs great today in 2022.
That dealer is a fascinating mix of integrity and shadiness. He arguably went above and beyond in the end the make it right, but he was still scummy enough to lie to you.
@@peteparadis1619 not in the grand scheme of things. I hyperbolicly agree with you though. If you have 2-3 grand to spend on a car like this, you can get a lot more for your money by buying something like a Bonneville or a Buick (that would ironically include notably more performance with the same fuel economy... It sorta blows my mind that my Bonnie has 240 HP and better gas mileage, so in that regard, yes, I guess a 2003 Malibu is a "terrible car". I've met people who think my Bonnie is a "terrible car" even though it has features that their modern car doesn't have though, so each to their own. I would be a bad person if I faulted someone for driving and enjoying a car that I thought was bad. I love driving a mid 90s Ford Taurus wagon because let's face it, they're very ugly and very iconic (never been anything like it, never will again). I know most people disagree with me that it's truly cool to drive something like that, so I totally understand the "I love cars Mont people don't" thing.
We have a 2003 Malibu that my GF purchased brand new. So we have owned it for almost 20 years. I do all the work on the car myself. They are not a bad car for what they are. They came with the 3100 buick engine that performs well. I have done some engine work on it. However, Thats to be expected. I have repaired two rocker bolts that blew out of the heads. Not a tough job with inserts. I put in new manifold gaskets and while I was in there I replaced the injectors. This is an economy/ inexpensive car. It does decent on gas and its quite easy to work on. Because she kept it in the garage most of its life there is minimal rust on it too. She now has 180K on it and it runs like new. If you want a real nightmare of a car then look at all the big three car companies that are blowing timing chains, turbos that grenade the engines and poor transmissions like the cvt. I drive a 2008 Buick Lucerne with the 3800 engine. Best engine Buick ever made in my opinion. I have now 160k on it and it runs great.
This is unfortunate. I bought a car from Carvana and it was the best car buying experience I ever had. I picked it out online, paid for it, they brought it to my door, I inspected it and took it for a short drive and it was as advertised, I signed the paperwork and the deal was done. I never had to deal with some immoral thief at a car lot constantly trying to add on extras for 30 minutes after the agreement. I have seen uninformed people pay thousands more for a car than they should from shady salesmen, unfortunately I was one of them on my very first car purchase decades ago.
The frequent stories of Carvana simply not processing the the registration paperwork kept me away from them. Processing the paperwork is the most basic part of selling a car. That would be a nightmare to deal with if it happened to me, and that tells me they are probably overlooking other areas of the process.
I buy used from private party now. Dealers play too many games, try to get you to buy a different model or color, and add on so many extra costs that you won't get from a private party. Also, be weary of sellers who claim to be private but are really turning around inventory!
About three years ago I was looking for a new vehicle. Saw one I had some interest in. Went to the dealership and could not find the vehicle on the lot. Inquired inside with a sales rep. It was in the corner of the lot. We went to test drive the vehicle and it wouldn't turn over. The battery was dead. I then asked how long the vehicle had been on the lot. I didn't get a straight answer. Which tells me it had been sitting for a while. Which is also why it had been diverted to a less trafficked section of the lot. I did not buy it. I wasn't about to trust something that had been left sitting this long with no potential buyers. The vehicle I would end up purchasing was sold by a chain dealership. They had a habit of moving inventory from one lot to another if it didn't sale within 30 days. When I had bought it, it had just been transferred to this dealership after having sat for 30 days at another. Based on the carfax, the vehicle had just been acquired by the dealership. One previous owner. It has been good to me so far. No complaints. The irony though I hadn't even owned the vehicle a year when COVID went into full bloom and use vehicle inventory dried up. I got a call from the dealership asking how I like the vehicle and if I was interested in selling it back for a profit. I looked into the blue book of the vehicle value. I then looked at similar make, model, and year vehicles to mine. You couldn't touch my vehicle anywhere for less than six thousand above what I initially paid for it. And because it was low mileage they probably would have tacked on another 2 - 4 thousand on top of that. (Speculation on my part for sure.) There was no way I could have replaced my vehicle if I did sale it back, so I didn't hesitate to tell them no thank you.
I was shopping online earlier this year and on Facebook Marketplace, it was actually a breath of fresh air to encounter a scammer. Most of the people posting in the private seller section were either dealership employees or independents dealer license sellers all pushing salvage rebuilt cars they got from auction. Or stuff that was title washed.
Daughter found a car for a very low price on Carvana and placed a down payment. For the next several days they tried to convince her to bail , told her car had a scratch and asking if she was sure. Apparently they had priced it too low. Daughter didn’t give up and got a very good deal
I had a similar experience when I was looking for a used SUV to haul my boat. I told the dealerships I wanted an 8-cyl SUV wi a Class 2 hitch, towing package and 3- row seats. Most showed me V-6, Class 1 hitches and no 3rd row seating " because that's what was on the lot." I asked the salesmen what part of my explicit requirements didn't they understand as I left
We went to a dealership a few years back looking for a used Challenger or Mustang for the, then wife. The genius salesman didn't have one and thought it would be smart to open the door and ask us to check out a $70,000 1ton Ram. We left.
There's a good chance they didn't actually have what you wanted, so they tried to sell you what they had. SUV's, with the exception of a few models, aren't what they used to be. SUV's used to be built mostly on a truck chassis, with a ladder frame, truck type suspension, and a V-8 availabe. Most of the "SUV's" sold in the last several years are really front wheel drive or all wheel drive station wagons, built on a compact or mid-size car platform. They're great for taking the kids to soccer practice, or hauling lots of groceries, and they're pretty good in snow (especially if you buy the AWD option), but if you want something you can take off road, or tow your boat or camping trailer, forget it.
@@Saiyijon I went to check out a Ford Raptor at a dealer earlier this year and when I felt unsatisfied with the truck they offered me a mini cooper and an older Lexus ES350. I told him that I was disappointed that it didn't feel as exciting as I had hoped despite how much I liked everything else about the truck. Him bringing up the Lexus was when I said I might like something more sporty. It's a frickin luxury car! It is not sporty! The guy was clueless.
The used car market sales tactics are just what Steve say it is. Just two weeks ago me and wife went to see a used MB 350. We had gone the week before and it "was at a different location but we'll get it here". Fine; we go back and the car is there. Mind you its a 2017 with decent mileage but so beat up I asked the salesperson "I thought you said the car was in excellent condition". Not only that but its currently being used by either a salesperson or the manager and he has all his personal crap in the car. The gas filler door was broken (off), all the tires were different and pieces of trim were missing. I just shook my head and walked out. This is the second one I looked at (the first at a different dealer had a huge oil leak with oil all over the front of the engine). So yes if Carvana could figure a way to get around this nonsense and waste of time, I'm all in !
A friend of a friend of a friend works for Carvana driving their cars around he said he drove a car over two hours so a guy could see it in person. The guy took one look and said “no that ain’t the right color.” Carvana paid this driver to drive 4-5 hours and spend gas for nothing. He said that was a common occurrence. Bankrupt? Yeah, probably.
I was looking for a new truck and went to many different lots in the area, it was very stressful, very frustrating, and we had several things pulled on us over that time period, but I did hold out for one I wanted, and I ended up with a great truck. We later bought an SUV from Carvana a and the experience was so much nicer than dealing with used car salesmen. Smooth, no stunts pulled, price was what we were quoted, etc. So, as you say, it's a good concept. It's unfortunate they don't look like they're going to make it work.
They'll make it. Too many people enjoy the concept for them to let it fail. They'll either restructure the debt or claim bankruptcy and keep it moving. The good thing about their debts is its only owed by a few people so it's alot easier to figure out between let's say 20 people versus 100 people
I was a finance manager at a Saturn store back in the nineties. We had the 30 day 1500 mile moneyback guarantee on all of our new cars. I think we took back five or six in the five years I worked there. The process wasn't a nightmare at all. Most of the folks returning their cars left with another Saturn. Either they wanted a different color or some options. Every manufacturer and used dealer should have a no haggle return policy.
The difficulty lies in the fact that the state (Michigan) collects the sales tax almost instantly now. It is collected electronically at the point of sale before you get your plate and way before the banks coff up the funding. The state is not in the business of refunding sales tax and they usually make more profit on a car than an actual car dealer. $20,000 car the state gets $1200 sales tax, plate fee ($200-400 avg) CVR fee ($24). title fee ($15) and no refund!
Thanks Steve, Carvana could not change the shady image and there are too many horror stories from dissatisfied customers having to do with registration and title issues.
This seems to be a theme with out-of-state car purchases in general. I bought my current car from a reputable dealer out-of-state that's part of a nationwide chain, similar to CarMax, and they were barely able to get me the paperwork I needed in time to register the car here. Carvana's inability to navigate this situation has been killing them.
Sad to hear. I've been buying all of my vehicles from Carvana and have been extremely pleased. I guess it's where I live; we haven't had the problems so many others have had with the paperwork. Every purchase I have had with them has been seamless. Great cars, good prices, excellent service.
While a vast majority of Carvana’s sales went through with no problems, it was their “business plan” that did them in. Except for one quarter, they lost money on every sale they made. The Father sure made out well though!
I assumed that Carvana got most of their used inventory from car auctions. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm right. But regardless, you have a representative bidding on something that they themselves could only give a walk around inspection on. I've seen some shady stuff with used vehicles. Underbelly being spray painted to cover up excessive rust. Interior that was detailed more than once to hide flood exposure. Poor body work to cover up body problems and imperfections. And on new model vehicles usually less than 5 years old. And I'm sure a company like Carvana probably has the new vehicles delivered to a location so that the can go through an inspection. But if this is the case I could also see the mechanics rushing through it. Hell, I once many years ago took my vehicle to the dealership for routine service and I could tell that the mechanic didn't go through the normal inspection process that all vehicles are supposed to go through. So if "Bob" is swamped or having a bad day, most if not all the vehicles he touched is probably not been checked out like they should. Then in up in one of those glass kiosks waiting for a buyer who simply doesn't know any better.
But that's the other part of their problem - they're losing money on the good transactions like yours. Sure, it worked out great for you and probably many others, but Carvana has been losing money on those transactions hand over fist. In order to provide the service to you that they did, the cars you bought would have needed to have been priced higher in order to cover their operating expenses.
Once I drove over 2 hours to an out-of-town dealership to look at and purchase a car. Before I set off, I called the sales department, was assigned to a sales person who verified that the car WAS there. Two hour drive later.... When I arrived, the car was gone. Yeah, I was pissed for sure.
I usually don't bother an 1-hour drive. In that case I'll stand right beside their lot and call them. If they claim car is there then tell them ok I‘m right outside. Come out let's talk.
I wish they would do something with new car dealerships as well. A dealer adds no value to the transaction. They just cost me more money. I don't need someone to show me how the radio works. I already decided on which car I want and which options I want it to have. Last new car I bought the dealer did not have one on his lot. He called me and said they got one in for me. I went there and it had a sun roof I specifically said I didn't want and it was the wrong color. I'm pretty sure I didn't stutter and was specific about what I wanted and didn't want. He ended up getting the right car and then we went through the BS about financing. When I told him I would just pay cash now they wanted a higher price. So I walked and they ended up calling me back and said they would sell it for the price I wanted. So much BS. Just let me buy from the manufacture and have it delivered to my door like Tesla does.
Bait and switch is common, they have the cars they advertise, but they are shared between a few dealers, so will be used as the bait for a week or three, then sold after being used as bait. Done because the salesdroid does not get the full commission if he has to get the vehicle from another dealership, but full fat on anything on their lot.
I bought two vehicles from two separate dealership back in 2020. My wife's vehicle was showing sold practically as soon as we pulled it off the lot. My vehicle was still being offered for sale well over a week later. As was another vehicle I had seen some interest in at the same time but got beat out on the sale. I literally had to communicate with the dealership management that what they were doing was unscrupulous and likely illegal and they both needed to remove the vehicle from their website. Both claimed the same thing. A delay in updating their website. Both dealerships did pull their associated sold vehicle from their webpage by the next day. Sometimes, you just have to call them out on their practices.
Lawyers, Guns, & Money is a local band up here in NWPA. The organizer is now retiring as president judge of the county court system. All the members are practicing attorneys. They have built up quite a following too.
I love the example of wanting a Ford and being shown a Saturn. I ran into that last summer when I was looking for my Jeep, and I had a very specific reason because it was going to be my towed rig as well. More than one place showed me a Jeep that couldn't be towed, and when I pointed it out they tried to show me a Toyota SUV or similar - that clearly couldn't be towed the same way as a Jeep could. I walked away from more than one dealership on that sojourn.
I went to Markquart Toyota in Lake Hallie Wisconsin to look at a Camry . I told the salesman i wanted a Toyota Camry car and he walks over to a chevy van and starts talking about this van. I walked off he lost a sale that day.
I have to add my 2 cents : Carvana bought my 2013 Cruze in 2020 for $1500 OVER blue book. I went to their website and got an offer. I liked the offer so I called and set up an appt to bring it in. They drove the car around the building and said 'Okay, we'll get the paperwork ready." I signed the papers and then they called and PAID for an Uber ride to get me home. Mind you this whole process at the 'vending machine' took all of 15 mins, and that INCLUdES the 5 mins I waited for the Uber. Unreal and I was very happy the way it turned out.
Carvana didn't mind shipping the vehicle to a section of the country with higher prices. What is $1500 over blue book is probably $3k under blue book somewhere else.
@@superdave8248 Also, in 2020 used car prices were in the process of going crazy IIRC. For a couple years, you could buy a car at or above blue book, hold it,... and then sell it for a profit.
@@jamesdagmond That and they bought too many vehicles in a short amount of time that they cannot sell now. A car they paid 20K for and trying to sell it for 23K is now only worth 15k for example, huge losses with how everything else is going on with rates etc.
Look at your experience, they bought your car after driving it around the block. Coulda been so much wrong with that vehicle. Granted, a lot of used car lots get cars from auctions where they don't drive em at all, but thats why I don't buy cars from those places.
Went through the "process" a couple of weeks ago. One dealer had no new cars available (big Japanese brand) and tried to sell me a used car at a new car price plus addons I didn't want or need. Second dealer of same brand had 2 cars within my budget but had over $2,000 of "extras" they thought I had to have. $299 for nitrogen in tires, $1,000 for fabric and paint protection, etc. Third dealer of a smaller company (think zoom zoom) had two cars (one a 2023), didn't play any games and I purchased the 2023 car the next day. I did purchase two packages after the car sale was complete, and the fabric/paint package was a third of the other quote.
@@russlehman2070 My thought exactly. I've stumped a few sales people saying I use a special blend of 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen and 1% argon. I get a puzzled look and a "sorry, I've never heard of that".
How timely, I saw a Carvana truck on the road this weekend and thought "huh, gonna be a lot of cheap flatbeds hitting the market soon." They've also built one of those car vending machines near me very recently, I don't think it's even had a chance to operate yet - guess those will be on the market soon as well. New Airbnb category incoming?!
Just because they go bankrupt does not mean they will go under. I would not be surprised if someone else picks up Carvana on the cheap out of bankruptcy court, restructures it and then continues to operate the business. The sharelders of course will be wiped out.
I think I got a handle on the situation...MOST companies fear thieft from their vending machines...Carvana put the thieft into the "machines" to try and "cut out the middleman"...yeah, RIGHT!
Ten months ago, I bought a used Lexus on Carvana. The purchase experience was great and I loved the car. Unfortunately it turned into a 6 month nightmare of countless hours to get the title. I finally got them to give me a full refund only after reporting them to my state's and Arizona's Attorney General. I consider myself lucky in getting my money back, because I knew it was only a matter of time they would implode.
Yep. My Coworker bought a Subaru from them in Feb. I bought mine somewhere else in Jan My car is titled Registered etc & I drive it I think she is on her 4th month w a rental. No Title
@@stephaniehowe0973 Yeah it's unfortunately a common story. They should tell you upfront that registration takes 3-10 months on average and you should have a lawyer available for the duration of your ordeal.
What happened to your friend at that dealership is similar to what happened to me one time. I was looking to buy a Mercedes Benz E350. Lived in the Cat panhandle, and saw a dealership in NJ had a nice late model used one. I drove 2 hours through NYC traffic to get down there, and when I arrived at the dealer, I was looking around the showroom, couldn't see the car. When I met the salesman, he told me that car had been sold, and handed me off to another guy who showed me an old BMW 3 Series that was in rough shape. They also did the whole, take your keys to "appraise your trade in" , so I had to be really forceful in asking for my keys back. I said, it's late afternoon, I need to get back to Connecticut before im stuck in rush hour traffic. This was about 10 years ago, so I wasn't as savvy in the car buying process I am now. If you're wondering the name of the dealer...21st Century Auto Group. Stay away from that place.
I wonder if artificial scarcity is playing a role here? When a new player like Carvana comes into the market, it can exacerbate a shortage of used vehicles as the company builds their inventory. But once they *have* a substantial inventory, they have to be prepared for prices to drop again. You see the same thing with landlords buying up affordable housing and then allowing units to go vacant for months or even years on end while they hold out for higher rents. Eventually there comes a breaking point where 2-3 whole families start sharing one house and tent cities start popping up in parks every night despite there being thousands of vacant rental units. Eventually, a bunch of houses come onto the market at once and break the back of the artificially high property values.
@@richardtodd6843 -- I'm not sure, but I think I'm just describing "the business cycle". They say recessions happen every 8-12 years. 2020, 2008, 2000, 1987, etc. The general idea is that the wealthiest segment of the population invests when interest rates are high and then buys a fixed asset like houses right when interest rates are falling back toward zero. Then, they rent the property out, borrow against it, and only sell it on to someone else once interest rates start going up. Preferably before the fixed-rate period is up. That period is normally up to 10 years. See how that works? It's basically a self-fulfilling prophecy. 2032 is going to be an _interesting_ year.
I had almost fallen for the bait-and-switch at a used car dealership in Vallejo, CA (outside Mare Island) way back in '89. I went in looking for a specific Toyota I'd seen, but they tried to steer me into a Rabbit. Thank God 19 year old me had the presence of mind to walk away.
I actually had a similar experience with real estate not long ago. Was looking for an apartment to buy because I needed to move. Found a good one, sent the guy an offer, and his reply was "sorry it's already sold". So I kept searching for other places for about two weeks, when the real estate agent calls me and asks if I still wanted that first apartment, apparently it wasn't sold? Either way, I'm living here now so at least it ended well lol
That's not always a scam. Sometimes a buyer makes an offer, the listing agent considers it sold or pending, then the buyer can't get financing, and the deal falls through.
My Wife and I were looking at houses, all paperwork done, knew our limit, and NO HOA! Realtor kept trying to show us places 20k-30k more than limit, or in an HOA. "Nope, at our limit or Lower" AND, no HOA! Realtor finally got the message and bought a place met OUR criteria............
My state, Texas, has a buyers remorse law that requires any car dealer to accept a return on a new car within 3 business days from the sell date. So the return policy for carvana basically is the same thing
CarMax is great, but you just gotta realize you will "usually" pay a bit more. But it's faster, easier and safer than going to dealers or the private market.
@Lawrence E true. I paid 18k for my 2018 LT Volt in 2021, including taxes and fees. Only 30k miles on it. When the washer fluid reservoir was found to be broken, they fixed it right away, with no charge. Other than that, zero issues with Carmax. 10/10.
We inherited a 13yo Dodge minivan...drove nice, had scratches all over the place. AC needed work. Didn't feel like dealing with putting it online locally and having people come and pick the thing apart. Did the Carvana thing, sent them pics and got an offer in 30 seconds for waaaaaay more than I should've. Accepted it and just waited for them to come pick it up and start picking it apart, lowering their offer by the minute. Nope...check was already printed when some guy showed up in an Uber to pick it up. Gave me the check, I gave him the keys and that was it. Saw it a few weeks later listed on their site...they paid me $11k...they were selling it for $13k.
Carvana was in the business of selling loans, not cars. They vastly underestimated what paperwork was needed to sell cars, then ignored the laws surrounding it. Amusing, because it takes so much paperwork for loans, and they could have hired a used car salesman as a consultant to identify this issue early.
I’m kinda sad Carvana is going under. I had a great experience with them. They had the best price on the car I bought and multiple years, mileages, trims, and colors to pick from. It only took me about 30 minutes to pick it up at their location and the staff was nice. No problems at all and the best car buying experience I have had. Hopefully someone can make this car business model work.
That's how it always is with failed businesses. It's not that they failed for everyone, they just failed for a lot of people, which is obviously way too many. Get prepared for a very long time to wait, as Carvana largely failed because it requires you to ignore basic common sense etiquette for purchasing a car (it's very rare that anyone should be buying a car sight unseen since it makes it significantly easier to be ripped off if you do).
@@awesomeferret - This is false. It doesn't require you to ignore anything and you're not buying a single thing sight unseen. Once the car is dropped off, you have a 7-day return period where you can return it for any reason (or no reason). This gives you plenty of time to get a PPI, drive the car around for a few hundred miles and decide if you still want it. I bought a car from them in July and it passed a pre-purchase inspection without issue. I am in agreement with Daniel that I will be sad to see Carvana go. I had a better experience with them than I've had at any conventional car lot.
Yeah, I have had used car dealers do me the same way and they all got the same result for as you said I care about the car I came there to buy, you know the car I was interested in, not some other make and model I have no idea about so we walked out. Same deal in that the car was there but magically got sold after a appointment to buy the car had already been made only to inform us as we were in route to take a look at the car like 5-10 minutes before we arrived to look at the car of interest. All this experience did to me was to have me add them to a never buy from list for wasting my time and money having to drive an hour to get there as that two hours of time plus the cost of fuel and wear and tear on the car we drove up there in. This "No Buy from List" I have is for as long as I live but it seems this is the risk they are willing to make to rip people off instead of providing a good car buying experience to people.
There are plenty of things that sink a business, but the most common one you hear with these huge companies is simply expanding too fast. They usually finance it through debt, and even if business volume is still decent, they now have to adjust their resources and processes for issues that arise (which probably explains the quality/paper work/customer satisfaction issues), in addition to owing a lot more money.
After a tornado in 2011 I was in need of a vehicle, in the mean time I was driving a company van so there was no particular rush. I finally found a 2002 Mustang GT 5 speed in auto trader that was at the low end of my price range, had comparable MPG as other cars I was considering and best of all it was at a dealer in my town. The state was buying my property for a bypass but I didn't have the money yet and I absolutely fell in love with that Mustang when I test drove it. I told the salesman my situation but he couldn't hold it for me, which I understood, so I was on pins and needles waiting for the money from my property sale. When I finally got word that the money was here and they were just waiting to set up a closing date I went straight to the dealer and told them. They let me write a check (not post dated) and I got a great car for $7,400 out the door, then some days later, I called them when I had deposited the state check and told them they could send my check in. Well, that's my used car story. I replaced some parts and flushed and changed all the fluids about 6 months ago and it still runs and looks great. 😁
Caravan looked hokey to me the first time I saw one of their commercials. I guess I'm and old school see it, feel it, and touch it kind of guy when it comes to buying cars and banking. Liked your story about your friend. If you really want to learn about how these used car dealers like to screw you, just look up Ralph Williams Ford in Los Angeles area back in the 60's and early 70's. This guy was a piece of work to say the least.
I thought it looked like a cool idea, back when it was an exotic vending machine selling exotic cars in Dubai. Thought it sounded dubious for expansion though - how many people are going to buy their car from a vending machine.
That's not old school, that's just good consumer etiquette because it notably reduces the chances of you being taken advantage of. Caravana failed because their business model relied on breaking one of the number one rules of buying a car responsibly. Yes, I know they advertised free returns, but that's not how that always worked (I get the feeling that you would be less likely to get a refund from Carvana than you would be from a shady dealer, since the shady dealer would actually have incentive to do something about your problem.
I sold cars for years, just left the business to go work with my brother in financial services. I can say that I never did that shady stuff in terms of telling someone a car was available when it wasn't. If I knew it was sold I'd be straight up with people. Also if it wasn't sold, but someone was looking at it and had a pending deal (just needed to sign a contract). I would level with people and ask if they'd like a call back if the other buyer decides not to purchase. Most were cool. Occasionally we'd get that person who would think, well that's just a tactic they say to get you to rush in and buy the car. In that case, I'd be honest but there's no way to actually look good and you just hope someone doesn't leave a negative review because they didn't believe the truth. But that usually didn't happen. But I'll also say that the only reason that I could be truthful to people is because management didn't instruct or enforce me doing anything else. There are plenty of nice, helpful people with a lot of personal integrity out there who decide to jump into the car business, but if the owner or the general manager or the sales manager (different levels at different shops) don't want you to be helpful and have a lot of personal integrity, they will fire you. It's important, then, to hold dealerships accountable from the top down. If you don't like this stuff, in online reviews, call out the people running the place for allowing and encouraging such behavior. Those bad reviews by name will follow them anywhere in the car business, instead of just saying that you won't do business at Store X and they can go anywhere else and say that they didn't work that deal. Eliminate the plausible deniability for the management and that's how you positively affect the business.
Hell, I'm thankful that my experience with buying my most recent car wasn't like that. Since I was younger I fell in love with Pontiac Azteks (I know I'm weird). My parents had one growing up and when I turned 16 the family Aztek became my first car with 150k miles. High school, college, first, second, third, fourth job, 120k miles later, she's starting to fall apart bad. Got to love that road salt rusting out the undercarriage. I was looking at buying an actual new car, but for shits and giggles I typed Pontiac Aztek into market place. And what shows up three hours away at some shady ass dealer in Virginia, an Aztek that looks just like the one I already owned, but with a sunroof and the upgraded sound system with only 95k miles. They were asking for $4,500 for it. We were able to talk them down to $3,500 since it had been sitting on their lot for over six months (and the check engine light came on during the test drive). I had my scan tool. It was for something really simple and common on the car. Drove it off the lot and once I got back to Maryland, threw historic tags on it and have been enjoying it ever since.
Thankful I bought from them when things were sane three years ago, because it actually did work for me and was essentially flawless. Car is still great and I got truly a fantastic deal. But I wouldn't buy a mousetrap from them now.
You would have to be a fool to buy a used car online sight unseen without negotiating….and who the hell was going to do maintenance, warranty work and service?
That morning at their "sales meeting", the boss might have said "And the guy that sells that Cordoba that has been on the lot for 375 days, they get this half-full bottle of bourbon". So everybody tries to sell that turkey of a car.
Last year when I sold my 2018 VW GTI. It had under 30,000mi on it. Caravan’s best offer was $10,000 not even half of what the car was worth. Total ripoff! Ended up selling it to a VW DEALER for $23,000. Don’t know why anyone would sell them a car when a stealership will give you double. No wonder they are going out of business.
Love your T-Shirt, Steve! Someone should buy the assets for pennies! When will the endless amt of $$ being invested in bad business models that make the owners/top management, billionaires and the investors, paupers!
I had a horrible experience with them. They wanted me to pay $35,000 for a 10 year old car. And the week of trial like they say, they wouldn't accept me not liking the car unless I had a specified issue with the car. And there were tens of thousands of dollars worth of issues with the car and they wouldn't lower the price.
They also own drive time and they also own the finance company that they process you thru Before running your credit to see if you get the best interest rate
I actually Had Stock in Carvana company. Had 25 shares of stock from them back in 2019. Glad I sold all of it back in july of 2021. I needed the extra fund back then. if I remember was like roughly $30 a share when i bought it so $750 ish for 25 shares. came out with roughly $7,800. Needed some repairs done on my home. so needed cash. but Now its like $5 a share at moment.
@@JSonder143 Not sure about that. Not certain of their financing. Something is going on. Too many people complaining they paid off but the title is not in the mail.
I had a positive experience with Carvana, my Jeep Grand Cherokee cracked its drive shaft at 3am on a California freeway. While waiting for AAA tow truck I went on Carvana website and purchased an Acura TSX, and picked it up at the Vending Machine one day later. No problems with paperwork and tags, plus great after sale help with keys. They sent a locksmith to my house - no charge. I'm sorry to see this happen.
They didn’t care. They knew a couple dozen office workers couldn’t keep up with the thousands of sales and titles a day in all 50 states but they continued to do things as they did to maximize profits.
When I was looking for a used car here locally in Jacksonville, I had that said to me three times. I had my heart set on a particular car and it took me several weeks of chasing it down.
I would have never used their service, but I started to see more and more Carvana trucks hauling cars in this area and I thought the company actually took root. Did not realize they had so many problems. I thought the used car market was thriving.
I had a dealer pull the "We sold that car you're here to buy" trick on me. But it was Feb 27th, and not leap year. I didn't need the car, so I just said OK and was going to leave. They asked if I'd be interested in another. I wasn't, really. They ended up selling me a car that was 8k in kbb value over what I was going to pay for the other car, for what I agreed to pay for the other car. 10 years later I still have it and it runs great.
How many of the 500 people who are going to ask you to come along when they buy a car, are you going to go with? It could open up a whole new genre of videos for you. Maybe study episodes of Undercover Boss, Columbo, and Dragnet before embarking on the adventure!
I bought a great little GTI from Carvana a few months back. The entire experience was wonderful, the price was bang on the expected resale price, and their warranty coverage has stepped in for the few non-obvious issues on the car.
@@kennethsanderson1172 the warranty is through SilverRock, so whatever's going on with Carvana has no impact on that. The only involvement from Carvana has been an exception approval for a cosmetic repair.
I'm curious what will happen to those "vending machines" once Carvana is gone. I'd say automated parking but none of them I've seen are in ideal locations.
Here in Sherwood Arkansas I watched as they converted an old dealership into a Carvana and parked 20 delivery trucks on the lot never once had a single car in their vending setup. Literally nothing the year I watched it go up and then go right back down. Now it has zero graphics and just a bunch of trucks. I'll be driving by today and update the lot....
Just from reading the title of this video (gonna watch it later), I'll bet good money that somehow, a lot of upper management will somehow manage to get VERY LARGE bonuses/severance packages for doing such a "good job" during such "hard and trying times" as we've seen the last few years! These "deals" will be as close to what is legally allowed - if not MUCH higher! If they get caught, who's gonna go to jail?? My question: was Carvana designed to be a scam from the get go?
I personally feel that there should be laws (if there aren't already) that prevent high level executives from receiving large checks from companies that are failing under the premise "You sunk this ship, you get to fail financially with it."
Part of it is often a "well, the boat is going down, let's take a few things with us" thing. If you were in that position, you'd be debating it a lot more than you are now. It's human nature to want to salvage things. Yes, it's unfair, but that's the mentality, and it's easier to emphasize with than you think (would you really turn down a large bonus from a company that soon will no longer exist? Seriously ask yourself that, you might surprise yourself).
I keep seeing Carvana cars all over California with temp plates from states far, far from California. Like I saw one yesterday with OK. It's become a new game, "guess the state tag on the Carvana car" when stopped in traffic....
Where I live, we have a huge company called Carmax… They are a national company but they sell used cars… I went into one of their facilities. It was rather impressive… They have every car go through 25 stations where they go over the entire car and check it with a fine tooth comb… If they can do it, then Carvana should be able to do it as well….
I looked at CarMax they said what I wanted did not exist A bare bones long bed 2wheel drive standard cab 1/2 ton pickup truck. With a gas motor. And manual 5 speed preferred.
@@jerrykinnin7941 Good luck buying a manual transmission vehicle. I had to special order my Honda. Nobody in the US want's manual transmissions anymore. Europe, completely different story. So it's not that they aren't making the vehicles, you just can't get them.
@@jerrykinnin7941 there haven't been manual transmissions in 1/2 ton trucks for at least a decade. The last light duty truck you could get with a manual was a 2018 ram 3/4 or 1 ton with a diesel.
Carmax also doesn't negotiate. The price is the price and is always is on the upper end of the spectrum. A friend of mine worked for them for years. It is insane how many vehicles his location sold a month. Frankly, I don't even know how they managed to keep a steady flow of inventory. If I remember what he told me, they averaged about 700 vehicle sales a month. But to be fair, it has been more than few years since we talked on the subject so I might have the numbers wrong.
When you and your friend witnessed the "Bait & switch", I wonder if the car WAS sold, but was then brought back (?with a problem?). I think I would have stayed far way!
The shirt: does it say "send lawyers guns and money", or does it say "send lawyers, guns, and money"? Both have their charms, but enquiring minds want to know!
Too bad... Carvana just made a huge investment in a processing center (not an actual vending machine), but a center where cars are processed here in Lorain, Ohio. About 150 employees or so. Transformed the entire area as the city expanded the road and installed 2 stoplights. A few locals were bitchin' on Facebook about how it was too bad that the orchard that was there was gone.... Well, the owners died, and their children sold the land to Carvana. Me personally, I was glad to hear about it as it was 150 good paying tax paying employees to the area. I even considered buying a used car from them, but the lowest price car was $10k for a 13 year old car, no thanks.
Carvana didn't understand they needed 2 very important positions to accurately and quickly process the paperwork; 1. office managers and 2. DMV clerks, without them nothing gets accomplished.
But they built their car vending machine. The wacky idea and advertising took priority.
And how much do you want to bet the positions they cut are in the administrative departments that handle DMV interactions and legal compliance because they don't see immediate returns from those positions the way they do with positions with a directly involved with generating sales.
@@mattstorm360 That's the 21st century business climate: Gimmicks. It's as if they believe that what something really is, is not as important as what it looks like...
actually the problem is they couldn't clear the leins in timely manner. can't sell a car without a clean title void of leins. we deal with it all the time. causes a perfectly fine vehicle to sit because of consumers high need for financing.
You're right, they came up with a winning concept. But, badly executed it. Promising services they didn't set themselves up to follow through with.
I had the exact same thing happen! I drove 30 minutes to a used car dealer for a particular car, it was "sold", and they proceeded to offer a much less desirable car. I was angry to say the least. But I kept my composure, agreed to the other car, we went through the paperwork for the other car, and at the last minute before signing, I simply got up and left.
I later got a text and asked if I was still interested in the car that was sold - no kidding! So I responded to the text that I was not interested, but I inquired if they had available the less desirable car, to which the text replied that they did. So I arranged a time to come pick it up but I never showed up. Thank goodness I never heard from them again. They were probably tired of me lying to them like a used car salesman!
I like what you did! That's Karma!
"Things that didn't happen" for $600, please Alex.
@@robeddy3722 Congratulations! You just picked the daily double.
And the answer for today's daily double: this man is actually a woman.
Oh, sorry, that is not the right response.
The question we were looking for is: who is Rob Eddy? Yes, Rob Eddy. She used to go by Roberta.
Unfortunately that puts you at $0 because you wagered everything. And that means you will be going home today. But at least you won't be leaving empty-handed, as we will be giving you the consolation prize of an Alex Trebek poster and his memories because he is no longer with us. Thanks for playing Jeopardy!
My daughter and her husband bought a car from Carvana and they kept sending them temporary tags from other states and couldn't produce the title. Sounds like a broken record!! The worst thing is that they kept their trade in so my daughter had no car to drive. Crazy!! Poor execution on their part. Thanks Steve!
Your daughters husband, hmm. How long will they have to be married before you call him your son-in-law?
Carvana has had their dealer license suspended in several states for failure to produce titles and documentation on vehicles they sold. I read about that nearly a year ago.
@@donreinke5863 They really screw people over when they do that. It ruins their reputation and eventually no one will buy from them and that's what is happening.
If anyone buys from carvana or vroom, then you kinds deserve the hornets nest of problems youre walking into.
so in a nutshell, Carvana looked at the used car model of shady salesmen ripping people off and thought they could do it more efficiently with a computer.
😂 spot on!
The CEO is a former shady used car dealer owner who's been to prison for bad business practices.
@r_nelly…They paid me more than i owed on the used car…” that doesn’t tell us anything! Maybe you were close to payoff of your loan… Remember to compare apples to apples. What is the book value of the car you traded in? What did they give you?
@r_nelly they're also hemorrhaging a lot more by the millions on state-level fines for title law violations.
@r_nelly people have been having cars totaled in crashes and getting more than they paid for them, too.
I am reminded of the slogan at Honest Bob's Preowned Conveyance Emporium: "we lose a dollar on every sale, but we make up for it in volume."
This made me laugh out loud for real.
Here’s a story along that vain.
The vacation home community that my family belongs to recently tried to force people to eat at the clubhouse restaurant to stop it from going under. They asked my Dad - who runs a small business - to explain why it was financially necessary to the members.
When my Dad took a look at their books, he found that it was so mismanaged that the cost of food was higher than the price they were charging to eat there.
I still remember the long conversation with the chairman where we tried to convince her that she couldn’t make it up in volume.
Jackson Letts i worked for a company where a guy said they couldn't make money selling services at time and material rates. My response was "that's a pricing problem."
It seems to be a constant in car dealer advertisement, that the dealer that's been in business for 50 years tries to convince you that it's run by a bunch of incompetent idiots.
To your story, 10+ years ago my daughter found a car online in Peoria, IL. I called the dealer to make sure the vehicle would be available that evening to see. The salesperson said it would. We made the 2-1/2 hour drive. Did not see the car on the lot, and went in to see the salesperson. They happened to have taken the afternoon off…….we spoke with another salesperson that tried to show us another car because they sold that car in the morning. Even though I confirmed it’s availability at1pm. Within the next half hour I had $40 gas money and swore I would never recommend their dealership to anyone.
In regards to Carvana, both of my children worked for them and both were able to leave prior to the fall. They saw the writing on the wall over a year ago.
I think I've been stood up for all my car dealer appointments, except one. I bought my car from that one. How these people keep their jobs is beyond me.
@@kerryedavis
There was no guarantee they’d even show up to look at the car.
Bait and switch , it’s the American way
@@kerryedavis No bird in hand in my example - they weren't even at work despite making an appointment. No good salesperson stands up a prospect.
Truth
I worked at a dealership back in the day (early-mid 90s). One company had 6 Dealerships and all of the DMV paperwork for all Dealerships was done by a single person. We never had issues.
Until that one person took a two week vacation ... LOL
But all jokes aside, yes, I get your point. Sometimes the less chefs in the kitchen, the better the recipe turns out.
Worked at a dealership and we had our F&I get the paperwork done with the customer and an assistant get it ready for the Ministry of Transportation (Canadian). Things went smoothly while I was there.
I saw a car online at BMW on Friday afternoon. I had a trade in. I was driving by Monday. It was a new vs used car transaction but I don’t see the car purchase drama. My dad has owned nothing but used - never an issue. He used the car for work and the elements just made a new car unreasonable. Maybe, because he paid cash?
Cavana, in theory, dealt with 48 State's DMV (actually RMV in 2). I would be surprised if the 6 dealership operation regularly dealt with more than 2 States.
@@arcanondrum6543 Actually we dealt with 3 regularly (Delaware, Maryland and Virginia). I am just saying, it shouldn't have been difficulty to have 1 person cover a state for carvana. Specifically now-a-days. Remember, we did this back in the 90's before computer automation was so fleshed out.
I worked for Carvana for about a year. It always shocked me that we had 5 Human Resources managers in our production center, but nobody working on getting titles for the cars. Carvana was mismanaged from the top down. I realized that and left thank god.
*Small Edit- It seems to me that from what I saw working for the company the CEO and his father never had a plan to actually keep the company long term. Just wanted to pump it for as many dollars as they could then nose dive it so they could offload it.
I became aware of them a few years ago when I was looking for a new used car. Seemed dodgy from the start, practically an invitation to getting ripped off and/or tormented with paperwork hassles. I could never imagine that anyone would actually spend thousands of dollars on their "service".
I take my son with me to those places. He worked for a short time at a used car dealership and really gives the dealership a run for their money. So much so, that the guy upstairs that they always leave to talk to will come down and speak to him personally.
Your son could have quite the side hustle if he wanted too.
I'd definitely pay someone who actually knows this stuff to come with me.
After spending over 20 years in the used car business, people often want me to go with them and be the "third baseman" as its called in the business. Ive seen every trick, and will head them off at the pass before they get two sentences out. I also have many years of experience in vehicle repair, ( I also did that for used car dealers) so I can give a vehicle an inspection for issues/potential problems in short order.
"I was gambling in Havana. I took a little risk."
"Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money ...
The shit has hit the fan."
I think we caught a dealership in the bait and switch once and got a good deal out of it, though it was a bait and switch on price, not on the entire car. The last time I bought a car, which is now going on just over 20 years, it was some used 2003 Malibus that we went to look at that were used as a rental cars for 1 year and then got picked up at auction by the dealership. They showed on their website they wanted $9,000 for them and they had a few to choose from.
So my dad and I went to the dealership. Well, they didn't have any from the $9,000 batch left, but they had an $11,000 batch of the 'same exact cars', 2003 Malibus, about 4 of them. Hmm, odd. I did test drive one and I liked it, it had about 24k miles on it and seemed great, but I didn't like that the price was 2k more than what the website said. Kind of felt like they were just lying to us about the $9,000 batch already being sold. But, the sales guy kept telling us that yeah the website was wrong, they only have them for $11,000. We ended up leaving, sort of hoping that they'd bargain with us to keep us from leaving but, they didn't.
My dad saw later the same day the website still said $9,000 for the cars, so he called the dealer back up, asked if the manager could confirm this was true or not, and the manager said "Oh that sales guy doesn't know what he's talking about, come back in we'll sell you one for $9,000". Well, we went there and you could see it on the manager's face as he came out the doors when we arrived, he knew he'd screwed up. He admitted that yeah, they actually didn't have any for $9,000 but since he'd told us himself that they did, he'd let us have one of the $11,000 ones for $9,000. He asked if there was any particular color I didn't want and I said "anything but white" knowing that there was 1 that was tan, and 3 that where white, and the tan one was the car I had test drive earlier that I really wanted.
You could see for a split second he was considering if he should try to argue his way out of it, but then he said, "Ok" and I got my 2003 Malibu for $9,000.
Still runs great today in 2022.
That dealer is a fascinating mix of integrity and shadiness. He arguably went above and beyond in the end the make it right, but he was still scummy enough to lie to you.
It's not who you know, it's who you blow.
Great story
Those are terrible cars
@@peteparadis1619 not in the grand scheme of things. I hyperbolicly agree with you though. If you have 2-3 grand to spend on a car like this, you can get a lot more for your money by buying something like a Bonneville or a Buick (that would ironically include notably more performance with the same fuel economy... It sorta blows my mind that my Bonnie has 240 HP and better gas mileage, so in that regard, yes, I guess a 2003 Malibu is a "terrible car". I've met people who think my Bonnie is a "terrible car" even though it has features that their modern car doesn't have though, so each to their own. I would be a bad person if I faulted someone for driving and enjoying a car that I thought was bad. I love driving a mid 90s Ford Taurus wagon because let's face it, they're very ugly and very iconic (never been anything like it, never will again). I know most people disagree with me that it's truly cool to drive something like that, so I totally understand the "I love cars Mont people don't" thing.
We have a 2003 Malibu that my GF purchased brand new. So we have owned it for almost 20 years. I do all the work on the car myself. They are not a bad car for what they are. They came with the 3100 buick engine that performs well. I have done some engine work on it. However, Thats to be expected. I have repaired two rocker bolts that blew out of the heads. Not a tough job with inserts. I put in new manifold gaskets and while I was in there I replaced the injectors. This is an economy/ inexpensive car. It does decent on gas and its quite easy to work on. Because she kept it in the garage most of its life there is minimal rust on it too. She now has 180K on it and it runs like new.
If you want a real nightmare of a car then look at all the big three car companies that are blowing timing chains, turbos that grenade the engines and poor transmissions like the cvt.
I drive a 2008 Buick Lucerne with the 3800 engine. Best engine Buick ever made in my opinion. I have now 160k on it and it runs great.
This is unfortunate. I bought a car from Carvana and it was the best car buying experience I ever had. I picked it out online, paid for it, they brought it to my door, I inspected it and took it for a short drive and it was as advertised, I signed the paperwork and the deal was done. I never had to deal with some immoral thief at a car lot constantly trying to add on extras for 30 minutes after the agreement. I have seen uninformed people pay thousands more for a car than they should from shady salesmen, unfortunately I was one of them on my very first car purchase decades ago.
"If it seems too good to be true it probably is." I will always remember that little gem.
The frequent stories of Carvana simply not processing the the registration paperwork kept me away from them. Processing the paperwork is the most basic part of selling a car. That would be a nightmare to deal with if it happened to me, and that tells me they are probably overlooking other areas of the process.
they are bots from competitors... I had a great experience with Carvana without any problem I can strongly recommend them
I buy used from private party now. Dealers play too many games, try to get you to buy a different model or color, and add on so many extra costs that you won't get from a private party. Also, be weary of sellers who claim to be private but are really turning around inventory!
About three years ago I was looking for a new vehicle. Saw one I had some interest in. Went to the dealership and could not find the vehicle on the lot. Inquired inside with a sales rep. It was in the corner of the lot. We went to test drive the vehicle and it wouldn't turn over. The battery was dead. I then asked how long the vehicle had been on the lot. I didn't get a straight answer. Which tells me it had been sitting for a while. Which is also why it had been diverted to a less trafficked section of the lot. I did not buy it. I wasn't about to trust something that had been left sitting this long with no potential buyers.
The vehicle I would end up purchasing was sold by a chain dealership. They had a habit of moving inventory from one lot to another if it didn't sale within 30 days. When I had bought it, it had just been transferred to this dealership after having sat for 30 days at another. Based on the carfax, the vehicle had just been acquired by the dealership. One previous owner. It has been good to me so far. No complaints.
The irony though I hadn't even owned the vehicle a year when COVID went into full bloom and use vehicle inventory dried up. I got a call from the dealership asking how I like the vehicle and if I was interested in selling it back for a profit. I looked into the blue book of the vehicle value. I then looked at similar make, model, and year vehicles to mine. You couldn't touch my vehicle anywhere for less than six thousand above what I initially paid for it. And because it was low mileage they probably would have tacked on another 2 - 4 thousand on top of that. (Speculation on my part for sure.)
There was no way I could have replaced my vehicle if I did sale it back, so I didn't hesitate to tell them no thank you.
I was shopping online earlier this year and on Facebook Marketplace, it was actually a breath of fresh air to encounter a scammer. Most of the people posting in the private seller section were either dealership employees or independents dealer license sellers all pushing salvage rebuilt cars they got from auction. Or stuff that was title washed.
@@peterangles3059 LOL I see I missed typed. To clarify, "new to me". Sorry for the confusion there.
Buy used from a neighbor/ relative/ friend who has a three year old car that’s about to go off lease when you know they took good care of it.
Daughter found a car for a very low price on Carvana and placed a down payment. For the next several days they tried to convince her to bail , told her car had a scratch and asking if she was sure. Apparently they had priced it too low. Daughter didn’t give up and got a very good deal
I had a similar experience when I was looking for a used SUV to haul my boat. I told the dealerships I wanted an 8-cyl SUV wi a Class 2 hitch, towing package and 3- row seats. Most showed me V-6, Class 1 hitches and no 3rd row seating " because that's what was on the lot." I asked the salesmen what part of my explicit requirements didn't they understand as I left
We went to a dealership a few years back looking for a used Challenger or Mustang for the, then wife. The genius salesman didn't have one and thought it would be smart to open the door and ask us to check out a $70,000 1ton Ram. We left.
There's a good chance they didn't actually have what you wanted, so they tried to sell you what they had. SUV's, with the exception of a few models, aren't what they used to be. SUV's used to be built mostly on a truck chassis, with a ladder frame, truck type suspension, and a V-8 availabe. Most of the "SUV's" sold in the last several years are really front wheel drive or all wheel drive station wagons, built on a compact or mid-size car platform. They're great for taking the kids to soccer practice, or hauling lots of groceries, and they're pretty good in snow (especially if you buy the AWD option), but if you want something you can take off road, or tow your boat or camping trailer, forget it.
@@Saiyijon I went to check out a Ford Raptor at a dealer earlier this year and when I felt unsatisfied with the truck they offered me a mini cooper and an older Lexus ES350. I told him that I was disappointed that it didn't feel as exciting as I had hoped despite how much I liked everything else about the truck. Him bringing up the Lexus was when I said I might like something more sporty. It's a frickin luxury car! It is not sporty! The guy was clueless.
@@anthonyantoine9232 I would guess the new sales person was previously employed at Mattress Discounters down the street.
Love the t-shirt!!! One of my favorite songs!!!
The used car market sales tactics are just what Steve say it is. Just two weeks ago me and wife went to see a used MB 350. We had gone the week before and it "was at a different location but we'll get it here". Fine; we go back and the car is there. Mind you its a 2017 with decent mileage but so beat up I asked the salesperson "I thought you said the car was in excellent condition". Not only that but its currently being used by either a salesperson or the manager and he has all his personal crap in the car. The gas filler door was broken (off), all the tires were different and pieces of trim were missing. I just shook my head and walked out. This is the second one I looked at (the first at a different dealer had a huge oil leak with oil all over the front of the engine). So yes if Carvana could figure a way to get around this nonsense and waste of time, I'm all in !
A friend of a friend of a friend works for Carvana driving their cars around he said he drove a car over two hours so a guy could see it in person. The guy took one look and said “no that ain’t the right color.” Carvana paid this driver to drive 4-5 hours and spend gas for nothing. He said that was a common occurrence. Bankrupt? Yeah, probably.
and they keep advertising on TV
Bro I want that job, it sounds sick AF.
@@vastowen4562 what about food home delivery, isn't that more crazy?
I was looking for a new truck and went to many different lots in the area, it was very stressful, very frustrating, and we had several things pulled on us over that time period, but I did hold out for one I wanted, and I ended up with a great truck. We later bought an SUV from Carvana a and the experience was so much nicer than dealing with used car salesmen. Smooth, no stunts pulled, price was what we were quoted, etc. So, as you say, it's a good concept. It's unfortunate they don't look like they're going to make it work.
They'll make it. Too many people enjoy the concept for them to let it fail. They'll either restructure the debt or claim bankruptcy and keep it moving. The good thing about their debts is its only owed by a few people so it's alot easier to figure out between let's say 20 people versus 100 people
How long did it take to get your Title?
@@stephaniehowe0973 Didn't buy outright, but the loan company did take a good two months to receive it, I believe.
@@Skorpeyon
I was just curious my coworker bought from Vroom in Feb
She is on her 4 month w a rental.
Still no title
Homosexuals invading society.
I was a finance manager at a Saturn store back in the nineties. We had the 30 day 1500 mile moneyback guarantee on all of our new cars. I think we took back five or six in the five years I worked there. The process wasn't a nightmare at all. Most of the folks returning their cars left with another Saturn. Either they wanted a different color or some options. Every manufacturer and used dealer should have a no haggle return policy.
The difficulty lies in the fact that the state (Michigan) collects the sales tax almost instantly now. It is collected electronically at the point of sale before you get your plate and way before the banks coff up the funding. The state is not in the business of refunding sales tax and they usually make more profit on a car than an actual car dealer. $20,000 car the state gets $1200 sales tax, plate fee ($200-400 avg) CVR fee ($24). title fee ($15) and no refund!
Thanks Steve, Carvana could not change the shady image and there are too many horror stories from dissatisfied customers having to do with registration and title issues.
This seems to be a theme with out-of-state car purchases in general. I bought my current car from a reputable dealer out-of-state that's part of a nationwide chain, similar to CarMax, and they were barely able to get me the paperwork I needed in time to register the car here. Carvana's inability to navigate this situation has been killing them.
Reputation is the first obstacle to overcome/embrace before I even hear/see the product/service, but I guess thats just me.
Sad to hear. I've been buying all of my vehicles from Carvana and have been extremely pleased. I guess it's where I live; we haven't had the problems so many others have had with the paperwork. Every purchase I have had with them has been seamless. Great cars, good prices, excellent service.
Where is that? How many vehicles did you get from them?
While a vast majority of Carvana’s sales went through with no problems, it was their “business plan” that did them in. Except for one quarter, they lost money on every sale they made. The Father sure made out well though!
I assumed that Carvana got most of their used inventory from car auctions. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm right. But regardless, you have a representative bidding on something that they themselves could only give a walk around inspection on. I've seen some shady stuff with used vehicles. Underbelly being spray painted to cover up excessive rust. Interior that was detailed more than once to hide flood exposure. Poor body work to cover up body problems and imperfections. And on new model vehicles usually less than 5 years old.
And I'm sure a company like Carvana probably has the new vehicles delivered to a location so that the can go through an inspection. But if this is the case I could also see the mechanics rushing through it. Hell, I once many years ago took my vehicle to the dealership for routine service and I could tell that the mechanic didn't go through the normal inspection process that all vehicles are supposed to go through. So if "Bob" is swamped or having a bad day, most if not all the vehicles he touched is probably not been checked out like they should. Then in up in one of those glass kiosks waiting for a buyer who simply doesn't know any better.
The warranty is worth nothing now, you wasted your money. Sorry matey
But that's the other part of their problem - they're losing money on the good transactions like yours. Sure, it worked out great for you and probably many others, but Carvana has been losing money on those transactions hand over fist. In order to provide the service to you that they did, the cars you bought would have needed to have been priced higher in order to cover their operating expenses.
Once I drove over 2 hours to an out-of-town dealership to look at and purchase a car. Before I set off, I called the sales department, was assigned to a sales person who verified that the car WAS there. Two hour drive later.... When I arrived, the car was gone. Yeah, I was pissed for sure.
thats why i shop local for my car purchases .
I usually don't bother an 1-hour drive. In that case I'll stand right beside their lot and call them. If they claim car is there then tell them ok I‘m right outside. Come out let's talk.
I wish they would do something with new car dealerships as well. A dealer adds no value to the transaction. They just cost me more money. I don't need someone to show me how the radio works. I already decided on which car I want and which options I want it to have. Last new car I bought the dealer did not have one on his lot. He called me and said they got one in for me. I went there and it had a sun roof I specifically said I didn't want and it was the wrong color. I'm pretty sure I didn't stutter and was specific about what I wanted and didn't want. He ended up getting the right car and then we went through the BS about financing. When I told him I would just pay cash now they wanted a higher price. So I walked and they ended up calling me back and said they would sell it for the price I wanted. So much BS. Just let me buy from the manufacture and have it delivered to my door like Tesla does.
I'm still pissed that the cash for clunkers got rid of the only cars I can afford.
No car is worth a car payment.
years ago, I chewed out a dealer in front of other customers for overpromising and not delivering.
Bait and switch is common, they have the cars they advertise, but they are shared between a few dealers, so will be used as the bait for a week or three, then sold after being used as bait. Done because the salesdroid does not get the full commission if he has to get the vehicle from another dealership, but full fat on anything on their lot.
I bought two vehicles from two separate dealership back in 2020. My wife's vehicle was showing sold practically as soon as we pulled it off the lot. My vehicle was still being offered for sale well over a week later. As was another vehicle I had seen some interest in at the same time but got beat out on the sale. I literally had to communicate with the dealership management that what they were doing was unscrupulous and likely illegal and they both needed to remove the vehicle from their website. Both claimed the same thing. A delay in updating their website. Both dealerships did pull their associated sold vehicle from their webpage by the next day.
Sometimes, you just have to call them out on their practices.
Lawyers, Guns, & Money is a local band up here in NWPA. The organizer is now retiring as president judge of the county court system. All the members are practicing attorneys. They have built up quite a following too.
I love the example of wanting a Ford and being shown a Saturn. I ran into that last summer when I was looking for my Jeep, and I had a very specific reason because it was going to be my towed rig as well. More than one place showed me a Jeep that couldn't be towed, and when I pointed it out they tried to show me a Toyota SUV or similar - that clearly couldn't be towed the same way as a Jeep could. I walked away from more than one dealership on that sojourn.
4Runners in the Off road trim have a manual transfer case. With a neutral
I went to Markquart Toyota in Lake Hallie Wisconsin to look at a Camry . I told the salesman i wanted a Toyota Camry car and he walks over to a chevy van and starts talking about this van. I walked off he lost a sale that day.
I have to add my 2 cents : Carvana bought my 2013 Cruze in 2020 for $1500 OVER blue book. I went to their website and got an offer. I liked the offer so I called and set up an appt to bring it in. They drove the car around the building and said 'Okay, we'll get the paperwork ready." I signed the papers and then they called and PAID for an Uber ride to get me home. Mind you this whole process at the 'vending machine' took all of 15 mins, and that INCLUdES the 5 mins I waited for the Uber. Unreal and I was very happy the way it turned out.
Carvana didn't mind shipping the vehicle to a section of the country with higher prices. What is $1500 over blue book is probably $3k under blue book somewhere else.
@@superdave8248 Also, in 2020 used car prices were in the process of going crazy IIRC. For a couple years, you could buy a car at or above blue book, hold it,... and then sell it for a profit.
This is a big reason they aren't making any money. They pay too much for the product.
@@jamesdagmond That and they bought too many vehicles in a short amount of time that they cannot sell now. A car they paid 20K for and trying to sell it for 23K is now only worth 15k for example, huge losses with how everything else is going on with rates etc.
Look at your experience, they bought your car after driving it around the block.
Coulda been so much wrong with that vehicle.
Granted, a lot of used car lots get cars from auctions where they don't drive em at all, but thats why I don't buy cars from those places.
Went through the "process" a couple of weeks ago. One dealer had no new cars available (big Japanese brand) and tried to sell me a used car at a new car price plus addons I didn't want or need. Second dealer of same brand had 2 cars within my budget but had over $2,000 of "extras" they thought I had to have. $299 for nitrogen in tires, $1,000 for fabric and paint protection, etc. Third dealer of a smaller company (think zoom zoom) had two cars (one a 2023), didn't play any games and I purchased the 2023 car the next day. I did purchase two packages after the car sale was complete, and the fabric/paint package was a third of the other quote.
If anybody wants to charge me $299 for nitrogen in the tires, I'l tell them that 80% nitrogen is good enough for me.
@@russlehman2070 My thought exactly. I've stumped a few sales people saying I use a special blend of 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen and 1% argon. I get a puzzled look and a "sorry, I've never heard of that".
How timely, I saw a Carvana truck on the road this weekend and thought "huh, gonna be a lot of cheap flatbeds hitting the market soon." They've also built one of those car vending machines near me very recently, I don't think it's even had a chance to operate yet - guess those will be on the market soon as well. New Airbnb category incoming?!
A glut of NPR trucks on the market would be great
A B&B with an elevator and glass walls
Now, that's different.
Maybe they should rent them out to the "van life" crowd.
Just because they go bankrupt does not mean they will go under. I would not be surprised if someone else picks up Carvana on the cheap out of bankruptcy court, restructures it and then continues to operate the business. The sharelders of course will be wiped out.
@@sonictech1000 Bad idea, will the rent be cheaper than the Walmart parking lot?
Ben planking on top of mic #2, Steve's RHS
I think I got a handle on the situation...MOST companies fear thieft from their vending machines...Carvana put the thieft into the "machines" to try and "cut out the middleman"...yeah, RIGHT!
Warren Zevon is smiling in heaven over that t-shirt🤗
Ten months ago, I bought a used Lexus on Carvana. The purchase experience was great and I loved the car. Unfortunately it turned into a 6 month nightmare of countless hours to get the title. I finally got them to give me a full refund only after reporting them to my state's and Arizona's Attorney General. I consider myself lucky in getting my money back, because I knew it was only a matter of time they would implode.
Vroom is right on their tail, one of the worst experiences buying a car for so many people.
Edit: Also, nice Zevon shirt.
Yep.
My Coworker bought a Subaru from them in Feb.
I bought mine somewhere else in Jan
My car is titled Registered etc & I drive it
I think she is on her 4th month w a rental.
No Title
@@stephaniehowe0973 Yeah it's unfortunately a common story. They should tell you upfront that registration takes 3-10 months on average and you should have a lawyer available for the duration of your ordeal.
What happened to your friend at that dealership is similar to what happened to me one time. I was looking to buy a Mercedes Benz E350. Lived in the Cat panhandle, and saw a dealership in NJ had a nice late model used one. I drove 2 hours through NYC traffic to get down there, and when I arrived at the dealer, I was looking around the showroom, couldn't see the car. When I met the salesman, he told me that car had been sold, and handed me off to another guy who showed me an old BMW 3 Series that was in rough shape. They also did the whole, take your keys to "appraise your trade in" , so I had to be really forceful in asking for my keys back.
I said, it's late afternoon, I need to get back to Connecticut before im stuck in rush hour traffic. This was about 10 years ago, so I wasn't as savvy in the car buying process I am now.
If you're wondering the name of the dealer...21st Century Auto Group. Stay away from that place.
I wonder if artificial scarcity is playing a role here?
When a new player like Carvana comes into the market, it can exacerbate a shortage of used vehicles as the company builds their inventory. But once they *have* a substantial inventory, they have to be prepared for prices to drop again.
You see the same thing with landlords buying up affordable housing and then allowing units to go vacant for months or even years on end while they hold out for higher rents.
Eventually there comes a breaking point where 2-3 whole families start sharing one house and tent cities start popping up in parks every night despite there being thousands of vacant rental units.
Eventually, a bunch of houses come onto the market at once and break the back of the artificially high property values.
I think you're describing low-end single-family rentals in Cincinnati, and with interest rates rising, maybe a correction is coming.
@@richardtodd6843 -- I'm not sure, but I think I'm just describing "the business cycle".
They say recessions happen every 8-12 years. 2020, 2008, 2000, 1987, etc.
The general idea is that the wealthiest segment of the population invests when interest rates are high and then buys a fixed asset like houses right when interest rates are falling back toward zero.
Then, they rent the property out, borrow against it, and only sell it on to someone else once interest rates start going up. Preferably before the fixed-rate period is up.
That period is normally up to 10 years.
See how that works? It's basically a self-fulfilling prophecy.
2032 is going to be an _interesting_ year.
Thanks for the update. From Michigan
I had almost fallen for the bait-and-switch at a used car dealership in Vallejo, CA (outside Mare Island) way back in '89. I went in looking for a specific Toyota I'd seen, but they tried to steer me into a Rabbit. Thank God 19 year old me had the presence of mind to walk away.
I actually had a similar experience with real estate not long ago.
Was looking for an apartment to buy because I needed to move. Found a good one, sent the guy an offer, and his reply was "sorry it's already sold".
So I kept searching for other places for about two weeks, when the real estate agent calls me and asks if I still wanted that first apartment, apparently it wasn't sold? Either way, I'm living here now so at least it ended well lol
When they're caught in their own lie, best time to negotiate! I hope you offered even less.
That's not always a scam. Sometimes a buyer makes an offer, the listing agent considers it sold or pending, then the buyer can't get financing, and the deal falls through.
My Wife and I were looking at houses, all paperwork done, knew our limit, and NO HOA! Realtor kept trying to show us places 20k-30k more than limit, or in an HOA. "Nope, at our limit or Lower" AND, no HOA! Realtor finally got the message and bought a place met OUR criteria............
My state, Texas, has a buyers remorse law that requires any car dealer to accept a return on a new car within 3 business days from the sell date. So the return policy for carvana basically is the same thing
I love your videos, you always have an interesting story to go along with the video subject.
Carmax is what Carvana was trying to emulate. Wife and I have bought several cars from them. Always had a great experience.
Carmax is the bomb...
Carmax is lovely. They treat their customers so well! I would buy from them again.
Carmax has been great at Bain my used cars
CarMax is great, but you just gotta realize you will "usually" pay a bit more. But it's faster, easier and safer than going to dealers or the private market.
@Lawrence E true. I paid 18k for my 2018 LT Volt in 2021, including taxes and fees. Only 30k miles on it. When the washer fluid reservoir was found to be broken, they fixed it right away, with no charge. Other than that, zero issues with Carmax. 10/10.
We inherited a 13yo Dodge minivan...drove nice, had scratches all over the place. AC needed work. Didn't feel like dealing with putting it online locally and having people come and pick the thing apart. Did the Carvana thing, sent them pics and got an offer in 30 seconds for waaaaaay more than I should've. Accepted it and just waited for them to come pick it up and start picking it apart, lowering their offer by the minute. Nope...check was already printed when some guy showed up in an Uber to pick it up. Gave me the check, I gave him the keys and that was it. Saw it a few weeks later listed on their site...they paid me $11k...they were selling it for $13k.
Carvana was in the business of selling loans, not cars.
They vastly underestimated what paperwork was needed to sell cars, then ignored the laws surrounding it.
Amusing, because it takes so much paperwork for loans, and they could have hired a used car salesman as a consultant to identify this issue early.
Been enjoying your channel for months now. Appreciate it Steve.
I’m kinda sad Carvana is going under. I had a great experience with them. They had the best price on the car I bought and multiple years, mileages, trims, and colors to pick from. It only took me about 30 minutes to pick it up at their location and the staff was nice. No problems at all and the best car buying experience I have had. Hopefully someone can make this car business model work.
That's how it always is with failed businesses. It's not that they failed for everyone, they just failed for a lot of people, which is obviously way too many. Get prepared for a very long time to wait, as Carvana largely failed because it requires you to ignore basic common sense etiquette for purchasing a car (it's very rare that anyone should be buying a car sight unseen since it makes it significantly easier to be ripped off if you do).
@@awesomeferret - This is false. It doesn't require you to ignore anything and you're not buying a single thing sight unseen. Once the car is dropped off, you have a 7-day return period where you can return it for any reason (or no reason). This gives you plenty of time to get a PPI, drive the car around for a few hundred miles and decide if you still want it. I bought a car from them in July and it passed a pre-purchase inspection without issue. I am in agreement with Daniel that I will be sad to see Carvana go. I had a better experience with them than I've had at any conventional car lot.
My wife and daughter both bought cars through Carvana and everything went smoothly. They are very happy with their cars. I guess they were lucky.
Yeah, I have had used car dealers do me the same way and they all got the same result for as you said I care about the car I came there to buy, you know the car I was interested in, not some other make and model I have no idea about so we walked out. Same deal in that the car was there but magically got sold after a appointment to buy the car had already been made only to inform us as we were in route to take a look at the car like 5-10 minutes before we arrived to look at the car of interest.
All this experience did to me was to have me add them to a never buy from list for wasting my time and money having to drive an hour to get there as that two hours of time plus the cost of fuel and wear and tear on the car we drove up there in. This "No Buy from List" I have is for as long as I live but it seems this is the risk they are willing to make to rip people off instead of providing a good car buying experience to people.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you Steve and your family. 😀
There are plenty of things that sink a business, but the most common one you hear with these huge companies is simply expanding too fast. They usually finance it through debt, and even if business volume is still decent, they now have to adjust their resources and processes for issues that arise (which probably explains the quality/paper work/customer satisfaction issues), in addition to owing a lot more money.
After a tornado in 2011 I was in need of a vehicle, in the mean time I was driving a company van so there was no particular rush. I finally found a 2002 Mustang GT 5 speed in auto trader that was at the low end of my price range, had comparable MPG as other cars I was considering and best of all it was at a dealer in my town. The state was buying my property for a bypass but I didn't have the money yet and I absolutely fell in love with that Mustang when I test drove it. I told the salesman my situation but he couldn't hold it for me, which I understood, so I was on pins and needles waiting for the money from my property sale. When I finally got word that the money was here and they were just waiting to set up a closing date I went straight to the dealer and told them. They let me write a check (not post dated) and I got a great car for $7,400 out the door, then some days later, I called them when I had deposited the state check and told them they could send my check in. Well, that's my used car story. I replaced some parts and flushed and changed all the fluids about 6 months ago and it still runs and looks great. 😁
Caravan looked hokey to me the first time I saw one of their commercials. I guess I'm and old school see it, feel it, and touch it kind of guy when it comes to buying cars and banking. Liked your story about your friend. If you really want to learn about how these used car dealers like to screw you, just look up Ralph Williams Ford in Los Angeles area back in the 60's and early 70's. This guy was a piece of work to say the least.
Same. I just didn't understand their business model. I also don't understand people buying cars like they are ordering clothes online from Amazon.
I thought it looked like a cool idea, back when it was an exotic vending machine selling exotic cars in Dubai. Thought it sounded dubious for expansion though - how many people are going to buy their car from a vending machine.
That's not old school, that's just good consumer etiquette because it notably reduces the chances of you being taken advantage of. Caravana failed because their business model relied on breaking one of the number one rules of buying a car responsibly. Yes, I know they advertised free returns, but that's not how that always worked (I get the feeling that you would be less likely to get a refund from Carvana than you would be from a shady dealer, since the shady dealer would actually have incentive to do something about your problem.
@@muninrob Oh yeah, Dubai is the pinnacle of square dealing, I'd definitely rely on that example.
@@awesomeferret They'd screw up the paperwork and pass the savings on to you!
I sold cars for years, just left the business to go work with my brother in financial services. I can say that I never did that shady stuff in terms of telling someone a car was available when it wasn't. If I knew it was sold I'd be straight up with people. Also if it wasn't sold, but someone was looking at it and had a pending deal (just needed to sign a contract). I would level with people and ask if they'd like a call back if the other buyer decides not to purchase. Most were cool. Occasionally we'd get that person who would think, well that's just a tactic they say to get you to rush in and buy the car. In that case, I'd be honest but there's no way to actually look good and you just hope someone doesn't leave a negative review because they didn't believe the truth. But that usually didn't happen.
But I'll also say that the only reason that I could be truthful to people is because management didn't instruct or enforce me doing anything else. There are plenty of nice, helpful people with a lot of personal integrity out there who decide to jump into the car business, but if the owner or the general manager or the sales manager (different levels at different shops) don't want you to be helpful and have a lot of personal integrity, they will fire you. It's important, then, to hold dealerships accountable from the top down. If you don't like this stuff, in online reviews, call out the people running the place for allowing and encouraging such behavior.
Those bad reviews by name will follow them anywhere in the car business, instead of just saying that you won't do business at Store X and they can go anywhere else and say that they didn't work that deal. Eliminate the plausible deniability for the management and that's how you positively affect the business.
Never could figure out how they stay in business.
Elon Musk levels of hype among investors leaning heavily on the word 'disruptive'.
That hundo is hidden really well. Just the very edge is visible.
Hell, I'm thankful that my experience with buying my most recent car wasn't like that. Since I was younger I fell in love with Pontiac Azteks (I know I'm weird). My parents had one growing up and when I turned 16 the family Aztek became my first car with 150k miles. High school, college, first, second, third, fourth job, 120k miles later, she's starting to fall apart bad. Got to love that road salt rusting out the undercarriage. I was looking at buying an actual new car, but for shits and giggles I typed Pontiac Aztek into market place. And what shows up three hours away at some shady ass dealer in Virginia, an Aztek that looks just like the one I already owned, but with a sunroof and the upgraded sound system with only 95k miles. They were asking for $4,500 for it. We were able to talk them down to $3,500 since it had been sitting on their lot for over six months (and the check engine light came on during the test drive). I had my scan tool. It was for something really simple and common on the car. Drove it off the lot and once I got back to Maryland, threw historic tags on it and have been enjoying it ever since.
Must've been Walter White's special, repainted and with an interior from junkyard.
thanks steve, as usual, your oration skills are excellent, its a pleasure to watch your content.
Thankful I bought from them when things were sane three years ago, because it actually did work for me and was essentially flawless. Car is still great and I got truly a fantastic deal. But I wouldn't buy a mousetrap from them now.
Excellent T-Shirt. Warren would be pleased.
You would have to be a fool to buy a used car online sight unseen without negotiating….and who the hell was going to do maintenance, warranty work and service?
That morning at their "sales meeting", the boss might have said "And the guy that sells that Cordoba that has been on the lot for 375 days, they get this half-full bottle of bourbon". So everybody tries to sell that turkey of a car.
🤪 started watching their ticker when Steve reported this behavior.
MAN,,, watching Steve for stock tips pays off. 👍👍
Were you shorting the stock?
@@jC-kc4si there's no up
Last year when I sold my 2018 VW GTI. It had under 30,000mi on it. Caravan’s best offer was $10,000 not even half of what the car was worth. Total ripoff! Ended up selling it to a VW DEALER for $23,000. Don’t know why anyone would sell them a car when a stealership will give you double. No wonder they are going out of business.
Love your T-Shirt, Steve! Someone should buy the assets for pennies! When will the endless amt of $$ being invested in bad business models that make the owners/top management, billionaires and the investors, paupers!
Whooo Hooo! A new video!! Hi from Canada!
I had a horrible experience with them. They wanted me to pay $35,000 for a 10 year old car. And the week of trial like they say, they wouldn't accept me not liking the car unless I had a specified issue with the car. And there were tens of thousands of dollars worth of issues with the car and they wouldn't lower the price.
"Dad, get me out of this." One of the most awesome song lyrics ever.
Ben on top of the second mic from the left.
Good morning Steve 🌞🌞 happy monday!
They also own drive time and they also own the finance company that they process you thru Before running your credit to see if you get the best interest rate
It’s a father/son endeavor. the father started drive time. The son started Carvana.
I actually Had Stock in Carvana company. Had 25 shares of stock from them back in 2019. Glad I sold all of it back in july of 2021. I needed the extra fund back then. if I remember was like roughly $30 a share when i bought it so $750 ish for 25 shares. came out with roughly $7,800. Needed some repairs done on my home. so needed cash. but Now its like $5 a share at moment.
If (when) Carvana goes bankrupt, will there be customers that never get legal ownership papers on their cars?
Most likely
Don’t the banks own the cars? Bridgecrest is carvana’s finance company so I think they’ll have the titles.
@@JSonder143 Not sure about that. Not certain of their financing. Something is going on. Too many people complaining they paid off but the title is not in the mail.
Not at all tons of companies go bankrupt and continue on. Thats just a tactic to clear the debt
@@gabrielgalaxygh Yep. just another way for the rich to steal from the poor. Like President Trump.
I had a positive experience with Carvana, my Jeep Grand Cherokee cracked its drive shaft at 3am on a California freeway. While waiting for AAA tow truck I went on Carvana website and purchased an Acura TSX, and picked it up at the Vending Machine one day later. No problems with paperwork and tags, plus great after sale help with keys. They sent a locksmith to my house - no charge. I'm sorry to see this happen.
Ben - Atop mic 2 (Steve's right, top shelf).
Good eye.
Love the Warren Zevon T-Shirt!!!
It's most likely for the best, as they can't get things together or much less care.
They didn’t care. They knew a couple dozen office workers couldn’t keep up with the thousands of sales and titles a day in all 50 states but they continued to do things as they did to maximize profits.
Steve, love the content and the T-shirt! Thanks.
I used Carmax last summer and have been completely satisfied. Similar concept but excellent execution. Why didn't you recognize this?
You got ripped off.
you bought a car before you drove it?
Because it is a one off.
carmax also has a return policy and it hasn't killed them either.
My brain thought they were the same for 5 seconds after reading that
When I was looking for a used car here locally in Jacksonville, I had that said to me three times. I had my heart set on a particular car and it took me several weeks of chasing it down.
I would have never used their service, but I started to see more and more Carvana trucks hauling cars in this area and I thought the company actually took root. Did not realize they had so many problems. I thought the used car market was thriving.
I can't wait to see what creative things people are going to do with the Carvana "vending machines."
I had a dealer pull the "We sold that car you're here to buy" trick on me. But it was Feb 27th, and not leap year. I didn't need the car, so I just said OK and was going to leave. They asked if I'd be interested in another. I wasn't, really. They ended up selling me a car that was 8k in kbb value over what I was going to pay for the other car, for what I agreed to pay for the other car. 10 years later I still have it and it runs great.
Nothing chases me away from a company faster than an attempt at bait and switch.
How many of the 500 people who are going to ask you to come along when they buy a car, are you going to go with? It could open up a whole new genre of videos for you. Maybe study episodes of Undercover Boss, Columbo, and Dragnet before embarking on the adventure!
If they pay hourly lawyer rates.
I bought a great little GTI from Carvana a few months back. The entire experience was wonderful, the price was bang on the expected resale price, and their warranty coverage has stepped in for the few non-obvious issues on the car.
Well, there goes your warranty!
@@kennethsanderson1172 the warranty is through SilverRock, so whatever's going on with Carvana has no impact on that. The only involvement from Carvana has been an exception approval for a cosmetic repair.
I'm curious what will happen to those "vending machines" once Carvana is gone. I'd say automated parking but none of them I've seen are in ideal locations.
Burn them.
Bulldozed is the more likely scenario
They'll just be demolished
Maybe Carmax could buy them.
Would be rad to have one as a garage to store cars
Here in Sherwood Arkansas I watched as they converted an old dealership into a Carvana and parked 20 delivery trucks on the lot never once had a single car in their vending setup. Literally nothing the year I watched it go up and then go right back down. Now it has zero graphics and just a bunch of trucks. I'll be driving by today and update the lot....
Just from reading the title of this video (gonna watch it later), I'll bet good money that somehow, a lot of upper management will somehow manage to get VERY LARGE bonuses/severance packages for doing such a "good job" during such "hard and trying times" as we've seen the last few years! These "deals" will be as close to what is legally allowed - if not MUCH higher! If they get caught, who's gonna go to jail?? My question: was Carvana designed to be a scam from the get go?
I personally feel that there should be laws (if there aren't already) that prevent high level executives from receiving large checks from companies that are failing under the premise "You sunk this ship, you get to fail financially with it."
Part of it is often a "well, the boat is going down, let's take a few things with us" thing. If you were in that position, you'd be debating it a lot more than you are now. It's human nature to want to salvage things. Yes, it's unfair, but that's the mentality, and it's easier to emphasize with than you think (would you really turn down a large bonus from a company that soon will no longer exist? Seriously ask yourself that, you might surprise yourself).
I keep seeing Carvana cars all over California with temp plates from states far, far from California. Like I saw one yesterday with OK. It's become a new game, "guess the state tag on the Carvana car" when stopped in traffic....
Maybe they can sell their cars to Herrtz and then start that process
Great T-shirt.
“Your sh**’s f***ed up, it’s shot to hell.”
Where I live, we have a huge company called Carmax… They are a national company but they sell used cars… I went into one of their facilities. It was rather impressive… They have every car go through 25 stations where they go over the entire car and check it with a fine tooth comb… If they can do it, then Carvana should be able to do it as well….
I looked at CarMax they said what I wanted did not exist
A bare bones long bed 2wheel drive standard cab 1/2 ton pickup truck. With a gas motor. And manual 5 speed preferred.
@@jerrykinnin7941 Good luck buying a manual transmission vehicle. I had to special order my Honda. Nobody in the US want's manual transmissions anymore. Europe, completely different story. So it's not that they aren't making the vehicles, you just can't get them.
@@jerrykinnin7941 there haven't been manual transmissions in 1/2 ton trucks for at least a decade. The last light duty truck you could get with a manual was a 2018 ram 3/4 or 1 ton with a diesel.
@@jerrykinnin7941 I saw a joke with a lot of truth in it: The best auto anti-theft device around today is a manual transmission......
Carmax also doesn't negotiate. The price is the price and is always is on the upper end of the spectrum. A friend of mine worked for them for years. It is insane how many vehicles his location sold a month. Frankly, I don't even know how they managed to keep a steady flow of inventory. If I remember what he told me, they averaged about 700 vehicle sales a month. But to be fair, it has been more than few years since we talked on the subject so I might have the numbers wrong.
When you and your friend witnessed the "Bait & switch", I wonder if the car WAS sold, but was then brought back (?with a problem?). I think I would have stayed far way!
I’m one of the seemingly few Carvana success stories. If they go under, I will miss being able to buy rare sports cars for under market price 😢
The shirt: does it say "send lawyers guns and money", or does it say "send lawyers, guns, and money"?
Both have their charms, but enquiring minds want to know!
Listen to the Warren Zevon song with that title and you’ll have your answer. You’ll also never go home with a waitress.
Here is a tip for buying used cars..
1-Buy a Toyota
2- If no Toyota Buy a Honda...
3-Dont even look at any other brand.
Too bad... Carvana just made a huge investment in a processing center (not an actual vending machine), but a center where cars are processed here in Lorain, Ohio. About 150 employees or so. Transformed the entire area as the city expanded the road and installed 2 stoplights. A few locals were bitchin' on Facebook about how it was too bad that the orchard that was there was gone.... Well, the owners died, and their children sold the land to Carvana. Me personally, I was glad to hear about it as it was 150 good paying tax paying employees to the area. I even considered buying a used car from them, but the lowest price car was $10k for a 13 year old car, no thanks.