So I don't think Muddstah mentioned it, but my Liesa deck is kind of stax/group slug but based all around the number 2. Every drain and stax effect costs 2 life or mana, all my rocks tap for 2, I run Monologue Tax, Infernal Grasp which pings me for 2, etc etc. Was a cool and fun way to build around a specific theme for me! :)
Ivy triggers whenever any creature is targetted with a spell, so you could have copied Em Jae's mutates and turned them against them, especially since they started with the Shoreshark. Just a thing of note if you choose to build an Ivy deck
5:07 Em Jae should’ve drawn a card since the Garruk’s Packleader token sees the original one ETB, but I guess it didn’t make that much of a difference since they got wiped quickly
Heads up for 7:19 - Thought Prison does not care about card type, but rather CMC. So while both Green and Blue spells will trigger it, Instants will not, and in this case all CMC=3 spells will also trigger it.
Ive never been super clear on the interaction, but shouldnt Auspicious Sterix get a total of 5 triggers when it gets copied? The first trigger happens, then a copy is made which gives 2 triggers, then the original triggers again for 2 as it triggers each time it mutates for a total of 5.
Creating a copy does trigger etb, but mutate but it does know it's previously mutate, if u mutate again. At least that's how how I play it in my play group
Pretty close to correct. Starrix and Starrix Copy are on stack. Starrix copy goes on first and triggers on mutate. It sees 1 mutation count so looks for 1 permanent. Original Starrix hits second, OG and Copy both trigger on mutate. Both see that theyve mutated twice in total, so OG will find 2 permanents, Copy will find 2 permanents. So their On Mutate triggers will trigger a total of 3 times but will find 5 permanents in total.
I love Ivy as my mutate deck. You miss out on the other colors but get the primary ones as well as make the entire rules interactions and tokens a headache. Especially if you start making nonlegendary clones.
8:53 Because Tawnos copied the starrix, it would actually payout 3 times, not 2. The starrix copy would resolve on mutate, then the original would mutate and see that the first (copied) starrix has already mutated once, so it would payout twice more for a total of 3.
likewise, with the shoreshark (who is a beast) you would be able to bounce three creatures opponents control, and would get 7 auspicious starrix triggers
they also overlooked that Ivy triggers on _any player_ targeting a creature other than Ivy, which means each time Em Jae targeted something with a mutate, Andrew could have copied that mutate onto his Ivy, which could/would have turned the match quite a bit, I believe.
I recommend Otrimi since I like using Muldrotha with Ivy and Tawnos. However playing as Ivy gives more leeway with enchantments, Slippery Bogle and instant target shenanigans is cool too. I've been bouncing between ivy and Otrimi and still perfer Otrimi.
Cromat could also be good, since it can protect itself with regenerate and bouncing itself and its mutate pile to top of library (or itself to command zone and the rest of the pile to top of library), and it can give itself evasion, pump itself, and threaten to destroy creatures attacking you that it could block or creatures that would block it before combat damage (so it doesn't even have to worry about first strike or deathtouch or anything like that)
Merely having a copy enter the battlefield as a copy of a mutated creature will not trigger "when this mutates" triggers, as the number of times something has mutated is not a copiable characteristic. They only trigger when a mutating creature spell merges with a permanent on the battlefield. The copy though will be a mutated creature with all its characteristics, so if you play another mutate on it, it will trigger the first mutate as well.
More Eisenhorn please! It's a bit innocuous. Has a lot of value to be had..lots to build around. Never seen a Dimir deck that benefits from the swords and a Sakashima/Mirror Box at the same time
I still think tawnos is the weak brother of Volo.. It cost 1 more mana and care only about beasts and birds, ok the copies are artifacts in addition, but is this good enough to play instead of volo?
IIRC, a lot of mutate creatures (especially in Simic) share types, especially beast, so I think Volos actually struggles to create a solid mutate strategy. Also, Em Jae's deck looks more beast tribal, with mutate being a bonus.
@@DarkEinherjar for me mutate its absolutely useless in a 2 colour deck... why would you waste your mana on mutate creatures when you can copy things like apex devastator, terastodon, craterhoof behemoth, consecrated sphynx, astral dragon ecc... the kind of stuff that win or threat to win the game you know.. all those creatures don't share types and they are preatty free to include in volo, but not in tawnos.. with tawnos you are preatty restricted on the types you can play, and you can't abuse that stupid strong combination of colours that is simic.
@@papanurgle1169run both think of mutate ad copying spells. Why run kadamas reach when u can run migratory greathorn and put 3 basics to the field for the same cost
Tawnos mutate is so silly. Everytime I play it it pretty much gets all lands and permanents onto the battlefield. I had to start running lab man just because 😂
So I don't think Muddstah mentioned it, but my Liesa deck is kind of stax/group slug but based all around the number 2. Every drain and stax effect costs 2 life or mana, all my rocks tap for 2, I run Monologue Tax, Infernal Grasp which pings me for 2, etc etc. Was a cool and fun way to build around a specific theme for me! :)
Generic comment so people see this. Cool deck btw.
I guess you could say you made this comment to give your two cents? 🙃
@@DarkEinherjar I've never felt so hopeless for humanity
Nice to meet you Number 2 🙂
Ivy triggers whenever any creature is targetted with a spell, so you could have copied Em Jae's mutates and turned them against them, especially since they started with the Shoreshark. Just a thing of note if you choose to build an Ivy deck
5:07 Em Jae should’ve drawn a card since the Garruk’s Packleader token sees the original one ETB, but I guess it didn’t make that much of a difference since they got wiped quickly
Heads up for 7:19 - Thought Prison does not care about card type, but rather CMC. So while both Green and Blue spells will trigger it, Instants will not, and in this case all CMC=3 spells will also trigger it.
came here to mention this.
"The birds and the beasts"
What kind of toys you making there Tawnos?
Ive never been super clear on the interaction, but shouldnt Auspicious Sterix get a total of 5 triggers when it gets copied? The first trigger happens, then a copy is made which gives 2 triggers, then the original triggers again for 2 as it triggers each time it mutates for a total of 5.
Creating a copy does trigger etb, but mutate but it does know it's previously mutate, if u mutate again. At least that's how how I play it in my play group
This is correct.
Pretty close to correct. Starrix and Starrix Copy are on stack. Starrix copy goes on first and triggers on mutate. It sees 1 mutation count so looks for 1 permanent. Original Starrix hits second, OG and Copy both trigger on mutate. Both see that theyve mutated twice in total, so OG will find 2 permanents, Copy will find 2 permanents. So their On Mutate triggers will trigger a total of 3 times but will find 5 permanents in total.
I'm only partway through the video, but Thought prison doesn't care about the imprinted card's type. It only pings based on color and cmc
I love Ivy as my mutate deck. You miss out on the other colors but get the primary ones as well as make the entire rules interactions and tokens a headache. Especially if you start making nonlegendary clones.
Hahaha, the one list I wanted to look at hasn't been posted yet. Great vid, i hope it comes up soon
I’d love a list for that Tawnos deck. Looks super fun
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tawnos-birds-beasts-artifacts-galore/?cb=1675714877
8:53 Because Tawnos copied the starrix, it would actually payout 3 times, not 2. The starrix copy would resolve on mutate, then the original would mutate and see that the first (copied) starrix has already mutated once, so it would payout twice more for a total of 3.
likewise, with the shoreshark (who is a beast) you would be able to bounce three creatures opponents control, and would get 7 auspicious starrix triggers
they also overlooked that Ivy triggers on _any player_ targeting a creature other than Ivy, which means each time Em Jae targeted something with a mutate, Andrew could have copied that mutate onto his Ivy, which could/would have turned the match quite a bit, I believe.
And then the original would see it for mutated again and trigger for 2 more for a total of 5 triggers
For mutate (if you don't mind losing blue) i've been running Tana+Ravos for a few months now and i can rcommend it.
I'm current building a Tawnos Mutate deck, its nice to see just what it can do
Yes! Great video as always
Oooh Eisenhorn! Was really curious to see how that one plays.
Sadly the Merciless Eviction from Nick was at least 1-2 turns too early.
Might need to add an Isolation Cell to my Liesa deck :)
I'm always up for supporting mutate decks.
I wish I had Em Jae's deck-building talent. I love seeing decks go off like a spring box!
You should build a door to nothingness deck with jegantha at the Helm. I'm curious what your take on it would be.
Weird question. What playmat is em jay using?
I found that ironic too, that Tawnos mutated more than your Ramos... Ivy also seems to be a better mutate commander.
LOVE to see Tawnos being shown off with what he can do
I'm trying to make Otrimi work ever since it was out. I'd be curious on Muddstah's take on it.
Why not swing with creeping tar pit??
hello thank u for these
Great show :) thanks friends
4:50 why did Liesa die there? She's a 5/5 blocking a 4/4 with no other effects
The best time of any Monday
prison works on midway. But after prison is gone, mutated deck is on Rampage XD
I recommend Otrimi since I like using Muldrotha with Ivy and Tawnos. However playing as Ivy gives more leeway with enchantments, Slippery Bogle and instant target shenanigans is cool too. I've been bouncing between ivy and Otrimi and still perfer Otrimi.
No Eisenhorn list?
I'm surprised that Max missed with the chance to kill Em Jay on the last turn with his Creeping Tar Pit.
I still have my ramos mutate, but I do wonder what other 5 color commanders would work.
Cromat could also be good, since it can protect itself with regenerate and bouncing itself and its mutate pile to top of library (or itself to command zone and the rest of the pile to top of library), and it can give itself evasion, pump itself, and threaten to destroy creatures attacking you that it could block or creatures that would block it before combat damage (so it doesn't even have to worry about first strike or deathtouch or anything like that)
As a mutate commander, you mean? Jegantha or Morophon, maybe?
I was considering progenitus. I want to get all the Godzilla variants in one deck and progenitus might as well be a kaiju
@@FightinTheGorlax sucks you can’t mutate onto him though
@@ivernedit I knowwwwwwwww, though getting out a 10 mana creature, then starting to mutate onto it sounds like a looooooong game ha
I did NOT know copying a Mutating creature causes it to also be mutating. Thats so cool!
Merely having a copy enter the battlefield as a copy of a mutated creature will not trigger "when this mutates" triggers, as the number of times something has mutated is not a copiable characteristic. They only trigger when a mutating creature spell merges with a permanent on the battlefield. The copy though will be a mutated creature with all its characteristics, so if you play another mutate on it, it will trigger the first mutate as well.
@@nikos731 that much i figured. Tried to clarify "mutatING"
More Eisenhorn please! It's a bit innocuous. Has a lot of value to be had..lots to build around. Never seen a Dimir deck that benefits from the swords and a Sakashima/Mirror Box at the same time
Y no tawnos deck list?!
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tawnos-birds-beasts-artifacts-galore/?cb=1675714877
The E is silent isn't it so it is pronounced LIsa right?
How can you not see Simic coming? Green and blue can be so ridiculous by themselves, and worse together.
That was nasty. Holy crap
I still think tawnos is the weak brother of Volo..
It cost 1 more mana and care only about beasts and birds, ok the copies are artifacts in addition, but is this good enough to play instead of volo?
IIRC, a lot of mutate creatures (especially in Simic) share types, especially beast, so I think Volos actually struggles to create a solid mutate strategy.
Also, Em Jae's deck looks more beast tribal, with mutate being a bonus.
@@DarkEinherjar for me mutate its absolutely useless in a 2 colour deck... why would you waste your mana on mutate creatures when you can copy things like apex devastator, terastodon, craterhoof behemoth, consecrated sphynx, astral dragon ecc... the kind of stuff that win or threat to win the game you know.. all those creatures don't share types and they are preatty free to include in volo, but not in tawnos.. with tawnos you are preatty restricted on the types you can play, and you can't abuse that stupid strong combination of colours that is simic.
@@papanurgle1169 Maybe they are playing to have fun
@@its_chris2323 fair enough
@@papanurgle1169run both think of mutate ad copying spells. Why run kadamas reach when u can run migratory greathorn and put 3 basics to the field for the same cost
Tawnos mutate is so silly. Everytime I play it it pretty much gets all lands and permanents onto the battlefield. I had to start running lab man just because 😂
Ooga booga
Let’s get it love it andrew
Great game!
Karnstruct... I C WAT U DID THAR
Otrimi makes a decent Mutate commander. It's nice to have black for tutors. Mutating on an Insidious Mist feels so good