Very good. One thing i have realized is that nobody has all correct theology. There are foundational truths but outside of those everybody has different views. The trouble comes when you want to renounce everyone who doesn't believe it what you believe.
That's it! I feel sullied listening to JP harshly judge other believers. I think his standard for error and false teachers is anyone who doesn't believe exactly what he believes.
@@RuslanKD I can’t comment on the abuse situations. I have no inside information on that. (I do not trust Julie Roy’s like apparently you do. She is not middle of the road.) But your representation of MacArthur’s wealth and lifestyle was inaccurate.
"Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil. Cling to what is good." So where is the middle of the road? Sam Storms gushing over Mike Bickle in numerous videos that have been now scrubbed?
If Paul himself openly called out people by name for wrongdoings... how much more should we the modern day church when EVERYTHING is recorded via video and we can see the false teachings openly aired. Love you guys!
We must dicipher the difference btw 'faults' & even gross cultural blindspots AND pervasive patterns of deception, sin, manipulative misuse of truth in abusive ways. Labeling those dynamics & forbidding reinstatement of power over people officially IS NOT condemning them to hell.
36:57-38:20 was so refreshing to hear from Michael. I got saved in the charismatic church and am now reformed, and I have repeatedly over the years seen a refusal to condemn false teaching, and beyond that, basically telling those who do that they’re being too critical for doing so. And also letting sin slide and not walking through Matthew 18 church discipline. Rountree basically described what I’ve experienced consistently over the years
The critics in the Reformed church seem to, usually, think the worst of those with whom they disagree. ”Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.“ 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 ESV Not suggesting that love tolerates false doctrine. But, maybe gives your brother the benefit of the doubt.
It's not just Reformed. I've been in holiness churches, Arminian Baptist churches, and AG churches. *Everyone* finds it easier to throw rocks at another tradition than their own.
They don't normally think the worst..... some do. You are being the critic now. Do you not hear Brown criticising - he's rather ferocious? Often big church leaders criticise the more traditional churches as boring, as pharisees, .... not having the spirit, dead ... It's a shame. It would be better if discussions were more productive and in good faith. just remember, a wolf won't be looking like a wolf. What does a sheepskin look like?
So I consider myself a Calvinist for the most part, but I think this is my new favorite channel! I have felt so much unrest between charismatics and secessionists that I have not been able to reconcile the two. Both should show compassion and graciousness from one to the other and I think this channel does just that. Thank you guys so much! Finally!!!!!!
I have listened to a couple recently. Nothing wrong with what I heard at all. He did not preach prosperity or anything weird. He preached on salvation and did an alter call and a few hundred people accepted Jesus as their savior. He read from the Bible. I always thought he seemed weird. He was not that day. He could have been any other pastor.
That is the average price of a house in Toronto. It is not all that much money anymore. These guys also donate million of their own money usually. We are told to checl the fruits and not the money. Are people getting saved?
44:00 Roundtree may be the most level-headed in the group. Stop being afraid to call someone out for false teaching. That's how wolves enter the flock. Be loving. Be like Jesus.
Martin Luther is dead. We can't rebuke him. Benny Hinn and the leaders of Bethel are alive. We can rebuke them still. Whether or not we call them "false teachers" or not, we need to rebuke them and point out their false teachings.
I enjoyed this conversation. I certainly believe that the Internet has opened the door for more Christians to, at times, carelessly throw people out of the Kingdom under the guise of false teaching. We should be so practiced in our knowledge of scripture that we recognize truth when we hear or read it and not throw the baby out with the bath water over tertiary issues.
Im curious... I attend Michael's church and have loved it there, and to me it seems he honors Benny enough to allow him to teach on specific things. Do you find a big disconnect between their ethos's?
@@goodtogaz Interesting. Would you say it's because you're uncertain that he'll start sneaking in false doctrines into his teachings? Or his overall teaching style? I think recently, he's started preaching in a similar vein as Orthodox pastors, which tends to be pretty declarative and assertive of Christology (which I personally like).
@tobiassednef4977 I don't follow him as much. My wife used to listen to him more, maybe about a year ago, and my parents did attend a service at Jesus Image. Unfortunately that service was basically a business meeting about the new facility plans. So my perspecive is very much limited. Though, when I have heard him preach is strikes me as a lot more to appeal to individual expressionism and much less to full exegesis of the Word, which is what I strongly prefer. Some of the music and my external, limited perceptions of the nature of the church gives me unsettled feelings. And I'm definitely a flaming charismatic! Grew up in AG and now at a 3rd wave church. I'd take what I'm saying with a grain of salt, but yeah that's the best I can explain it.
There is a movement coming out of Charismatics where the Word of God will be equally valued as the Spirit of God. Preaching in power with demonstrations of power.
I hope you are right. This comes from being saved in a reformed baptist church and then getting caught up in a charismatic church for 11 years. Now I am in a covental reformed church because of craziness that I called out and was told to leave.
@@MrRudymancha the Bible absolutely says to desire spiritual gifts. Nowhere in the Bible does the Word of God say the gifts ceased. Nowhere does the Bible say certain gifts were for the Apostles only. This does not excuse the abuse and misuse of the gifts, or the faking of these gifts.
@@righteousrebelmedia5934 I agree . I pray in a tounge . I do believe that spiritual gifts are real only when God says so to use. I don't believe that people have a gift of healing. I believe that we are to pray for the sick and God decides if they get healed or not.
@@MrRudymancha I guess we differ a little. I believe in all 9 gifts still in operation today. But I won’t harp on minor issues. We are living in the last days, the most important thing right now is to reach the lost and loved ones our Lord Jesus Christ. God Bless.
I think if you guys were to do a review on Benny Hinn, be sure to factor in his interactions with Michael Koulianos (Jesus Image), his son-in-law. I know everybody talks about Costi Hinn's story, but I think Michael's also deserves some attention, as he's taken the opposite way of interacting with Benny while still leading a very gospel and Christ centric movement. I've been a part of Jesus Image Church for the past year and have been very satisfied with the worship, teaching, and culture there, especially among charasmatics. Everything that is done is done for the glory of God and the magnification of Christ. For the most part, they skip over all the "weird" parts of Charismania while upholding the supernatural; they are also expressively do not teach word of faith or prosperity gospel doctrine. Yet because Michael has been so close to Benny since childhood, he's been a regular leader and voice in the church. As he teaches at the church monthly (and also at the school), I haven't heard him utter any false teachings (even in my skepticism). Maybe misapplication/interpretations of some verses, but nothing worthy of "false teacher". I can't speak for his past or his current living conditions, but as of the past few years, if Jesus Image is trusting him to speak regularly, then I think we should be careful with how we label him. Maybe faulty, but very reverant of Christ and the Holy Spirit. I know people will listen to all the critiquing voices, but I think reverse perspectives like these should challenge how we accuse people and ministers. @The Remnant Radio Please consider looking into this if you make a video about Mr. Hinn in the future. Blessings!
I’d say the exact opposite about Micheal and Jesus image hence why they still partner with Hinn. You can’t take scripture serious and support Hinn, hence why Costi left.
@NicholasLove-vc5qq Have you listened to or been around Jesus Image? Because I would say that they too highly observe the scriptures, and yet are much kinder to Benny Hinn. I'm saying that even if he's had his faults, he wouldn't be on their platform if he was an obvious charlatan. That's what I'm saying: Mr. Hinn is too complex to simply throw into "heresy," thus a more comprehensive treatment is needed.
Agreed. I follow Jesus Image weekly from Tennessee, and Pastor Michael goes out of his way to address the excesses he sees in the charismatic movement. In fact, the last sermon I heard he said that he doesn’t care about prophecy or gifts whatsoever if the focus is not on Jesus and Him crucified. Also, concerning Benny Hinn, does anyone have recent evidence of poor fruit? The sermon that Pastor Hinn gave a couple weeks ago on the blood of Christ was the strongest and most profound message I’ve heard on the subject in any circles, period. And I grew up in a Baptist church that was all about the blood. The charismatic movement needs godly course correction in some areas, yes, but I don’t appreciate the mob mentality I see online where they gleefully send anyone they deem as a “heretic” or “false teacher” to hell as judge, jury, and executioner: “the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God.” James 1:20. It’s honestly disheartening to see how vicious and hypocritical believers can be online, and how in the fervency of their “defense of the church” they can completely ignore the humility and grace Jesus commanded us to walk in. Who do they think Paul served when he had to discipline the church? Jesus Christ. Paul said that there were teachers in his time who were using the platform to not only attack him personally, but did so out of envy and self-gain and YET, he did not label them as “false teachers” because he knew Christ was being preached. I’m not saying that as a free pass for non-orthodox teachings in the charismatic movement, I’m just saying that if we slowed down from the cesspool, fever pitch of social media we may benefit from godly patience and wisdom on these matters. And I’m sorry, but “hours of TH-cam videos” is not exactly a biblical model for determining these matters. Some of these creators and online critics literally propagate their own name based on attacking other Christians, often without proper context, and without any humility or repercussions when they get it wrong. I think Paul would be absolutely shocked by what social media has done to the body overall. If we want to gauge fruit, that may be a good place to start. We are in uncharted waters when it comes to social media platforms, and the amount of self-righteous behavior, accusation, and biased propaganda that is disguised as “godly correction” is alarming. I don’t believe one can reap good spiritual fruit on a diet of hours and hours of social media videos attacking others believers, whether their claims are true or not. God is our judge, and He will protect and Shepard His church. Before we can even discuss reform, we need to focus on the carnality in our midst (self-righteousness, slander, anger, bitterness, etc). Thank God for His mercy and patience with us for if we had to depend on that from other believers in this age we would be in serious trouble. God bless you and keep looking up! Colossians 3:1-2 👆🏻
@@tobiassednef4977 yes, hence my comment. They don’t value scripture or the teachings of Jesus. It’s extremely clear. I’m sure with your logic you’d also support the LDS church and other cults. As Justin mentioned, if you can’t label Hinn a false prophet then the term has no meaning. This is extremely clear.
@@vintagebowtieguy1436 ah man. It’s so clear. It’s actually sad. This movement isn’t Christian. It’s word of faith/nar. Call it what it is. These men are liars and charlatans to the extreme level. People of this stream, fyi are viewed in the same light as LDS or JW’s.
I think you should bring Benny Hinn on your show to truly find out what he believes. I know when I was younger, God used Benny Hinn to challenge me to draw closer to God. What I would hear him preaching about was the importance of the Holy Spirit in our lives.
I agree. Having Hinn on would be helpful if they put his feet to the fire and don’t let him cower into vaguery. I agree with Sam most of the time, but his refusal to call the flat out heresy of Hinn is unfortunate.
Benny Hinn was caught having an affair with Paula White.There are pictures of them holding hands and waltzing around Europe.They were both married to others at the time.
Keep in mind the pin up boy for integrity from Storms and Brown was Bickle. Supposedly the #1 guy with impeccable credentials. Decades of abuse, and not one phrophetic, vision, dream, or whispering from God about this man being a serial sexual predator. The charismatic movement's idolatry to man is exposed yet again. This time with disastrous consequences.
Mike Bickle, Todd Bentley, baby Olive - in the case of Bethel claiming the ability to raise people from the dead, the 2020 pandemic and the presidential election - for all the self-proclaimed prophets out there... It is all judgement for the charismatic movement.
Just curious, do you apply this standard to every person or group of people? If so, then you must agree that there is no way we could trust Peter or John, the disciples of Jesus (and thus, must throw out several books in the Bible). After all, they traveled with a man for three years and had no idea he would betray Jesus. Of course, that would be silly to say we can't trust the other disciples of Jesus because they missed the deception of Judas. Yet, that is what you are here advocating for. Perhaps it would be best if you didn't assume these things. If we are being honest, I think we all could agree we have been deceived in some form or fashion in our lives. Whether by people, ideas, or cultural norms. When you trust someone and are close, it is tough to see their faults. Or if you do recognize a fault, you are quick to give grace because you have seen the good in them as well. I'm sure they both wish they had known about this when it actually happened. However, I find it despicable that you are using this situation to try and condemn two other men because you disagree with their theology. It's fine to call out Mike Bickels sin but it's wrong to try and make two others guilty by association. Especially when it is clear you have an ulterior motive in making them look bad.
@@chris2614-f5c the disciples were not given the prophetic gift. At least not until sometime after Pentecost. Sam Storms and others say you are sinning if you don't seek prophecy.
@michaeljguy They had the power of the Holy Spirit bestowed on them, that is clear. After all, they were able to cast out demons and see people healed. Why then didn't they hear from the Lord about Judas? Could it be the Lord chose not to reveal it them? Again, we have to be consistent in our standards we use. It's ironic that you say they didn't have the gift of prophesy but is that the only way we can known about someone being false?
Please, Remnant guys, if you make a video about Benny Hinn, also adress David Diga Hernandez. His present teachings seem to sound, but when i saw the video of him honoring Benny, that was a hard Pill to swallow. It makes me question which charismatics i can trust. The season of a believer in which he doesn't know who to trust and where to get good teachings, are very difficult.
They've interviewed him before. If you haven't seen it I suggest you do. No answer as to benny hinn but they seem to agree for the most part with david
So thankful for y’all! You have a great level of humility that is a good example for young, aspiring ministry leaders like me. Not many people are able to recognize their own faults and see how they can learn from the other side
Bethel leadership hasn’t repented from, “all that stuff.” Because one of them says, “we don’t…” then goes after and not only does it, teaches it, and writes how to do it is not repentance. That’s a wolf.
Bill said he will NEVER teach a doctrine that says healing is not God's will in every case, but they closed their healing rooms for Covid. Jmac is in the most leftist wack California territory, and his church stayed open!
Yall are amazing! Judgment should not be rendered and retribution should not be demanded further than what you yourself would deem fair to pay back yourself if you were in that position. And mercy triumphs over judgement.
I make judgments everyday! The Bible tells us to judge. It’s very easy to watch Hinn and know that he is not a Christian and he should be excommunicated from the church at large.
45:58 I do agree people should be called out. I don’t agree that is any one person’s responsibility or that it needs to be every person’s responsibility. The way that Sam and Michael are criticized is that they should just agree with these two other men on the spot or be condemned which is just ridiculous and not a Biblical standard. They have a right to disagree or say they don’t know.
After watching Peter’s and the Kozars and several others expose some of this madness and false teaching I don’t even want to be called a charismatic, continuationist is fine and I’m looking for a Lutheran church to attend because I can’t be a reformed Calvinist and I can never be a charismatic again without serious serious reform with permanent over-site.
Question for you guys. In this video you have an example of how a progressive teacher denied orthodoxy by denying penal substitution. I agree. How then can you guys consider the Eastern Orthodox to be “brothers” in Christ when they deny the same doctrine (among other things)? (You’ve done interviews with them and have talked about your longing for unity)
@@tpw7250 in the interview itself, their guest explains that they don’t believe PSA, Michael pushes back with his understanding, she explains her rejection of PSA again, yet there’s a call for unity. I just doesn’t make sense.
I teach PSA. But understand, nobody taught the satisfaction theory clearly prior to Anselm. And nobody taught full fledge PSA before 200 years ago. All the ECFs taught a combination of the ransom theory and the restored icon theory. Which is why the EO continued to teach those ancient approaches today. The EO thing is to not change one’s theology from the early church. They still follow the liturgy of John, Chrisistom, an eastern contemporary of Augustine.
@@chaddonal4331 so in that comment are you saying that Jesus paid the price for our sins on the cross or not !! You are sounding like Tom Wright ! As far as I can see PSA is in the bible written 2000 years ago unless you are Tom Wright who says Romans has nothing to do with salvation, Im not sure how he gets there !!
In no way condoning mockery toward any of you guys. I see the temperamental nature of the Paul guy as well. However, when it comes to sincere false prophets and bad guys, Elijah doesn't seem to pull any punches 🤔"About noontime Elijah began mocking them..." (1 Kings 18:27).
Was that a consistent pattern to Elijiah's ministry or a single occurence? And why is it so fashionable for people to use this historical account as some type of prescription for how we are to behave? There is nothing in that passage that says "Elijiah did this to the prophets of Ba'al, so Christioans mock to your heart's content!" Mockery and scorn are not supposed to be our default positions, and when we are dealing with siblings in Christ, we are supposed to deal with them in love in order to correct and restore.
My point was in regard to denoting mockery in itself as a sin, for that would be to ascribe the action of Elijah as sin 🤔 Everything else you said has nothing to do with my point and is probably best reserved for whoever the "fashionable people" are that you mentioned 🤷♂@@ericedwards5034
My point was in regard to denoting mockery in itself as a sin, for that would be to ascribe sin to the action of Elijah 🤔The other parts had nothing to do with my point and/or position; I literally said in regard to "false prophets and bad guys." I find your approach to be straw-manning the argument at best 🤷♂ @@ericedwards5034
There are many people who have siblings that they love very much, but would never allow them to look after their children. The church has many brothers and sisters like this as well. Still siblings, but not trustworthy. That's a third category.
By Dr. Brown and Dr. Storms’ standards there are no false teachers and no ways of discerning false teachers. You aren’t a false teacher unless you have done worse than Luther’s worst sins. Also, they won’t look into even the most obvious rejections of the gospel: Copeland and Hinn’s statements which Justin even played for them
@@collin501 Storms has said in the past he’s convinced Hinn is a brother in Christ. Maybe they should do some research so they could benefit those in the body of Christ who listen to these false teachers.
Brilliant. Recently found RR. I don't agree with every position you take, but thats true for every person's plethora of positions I've considered. The heart posture does more to invite response, contemplation and repentance than the words themselves. Very interesting about Luther. Very interesting about Hinn, very interesting about peddlers. Recently read The Didache. Interesting perspective re false teachers and prophets is presented there. Thanks again
Some great comments on this video, that as charismatics we should define the bounds of orthadoxy and call people out who stray. Well done mr miller for making a stand at 40:54; that takes guts especially when u r a speaker at a conference. God will reward you... 😊 ...with discernment.. which is far more valuable than gold !!
32:27 You are spot on. "Say nothing against" is a ridiculous tenent to hold. Holding people accountable is not a bad thing. It is a biblical thing. Don't be weak. Correct your brothers and sisters. Be strong with love and sound biblical doctrine.
Thanks for doing what you do. I want to explain all the reasons why I appreciate it but sometimes these comment sections can get a bit testy. So for now, thank you for your humility and love of the word and spirit even when under fire. I gain a lot from hearing the different perspectives you present on this channel.
15:45> OF COURSE one is a false prohet if they get even ONE prophecy wrong. Bc that is a declaration that God told them (whatever it is). God doesn't lie. One ought not say "I predict..." bc that's soothseeing. APPROACH is extremely important, too, when calling ppl out.
Josh, who is usually rock solid on doctrine, is in his “wayward phase” brought on by an unhealthy admiration for apologists like Sam Storms. I mean, comparing someone like Benny Hinn to Apollos is not a comparison that Josh would make if he were thinking straight. On the other hand, Miller has been preaching the Word in the last two podcasts. As for the other Mike, relinquishing his leadership role in his church seems to have removed veils from his eyes. For someone who once said “those who are cautious but open is treading close to my red line” to agree with Justin Peters on anything is an encouraging sign. His citing of Zacchaeus regarding restitution was spot on, yet Josh immediately undercut his point. Josh made a valid point but his timing was suspect. Why the compulsion to immediately “balance” what others say? And his joshing about Miller has morphed into borderline revenge mocking. But Josh is a mighty man of God, and he will seamlessly right the ship when he has learned all the lessons he is supposed to learn from this stormy season of his life. Josh, as a young man who loves God and rightly divides His Word with such passion and zeal gives hope to a weary soul like mine. Maranatha
@@TreeOfLifeWoodworking If you don’t take a big lead, you cannot swipe a base. On the other hand, if you take a big lead, you could get picked off. One of life’s many conundrums. Shalom
@@TreeOfLifeWoodworking If you do not take a big lead you cannot steal a base. On the other hand, if you do take a big lead you could be picked off. Just one of life’s many conundrums. Maranatha
If someone is making and keeping millions for preaching and there are people who have needs in their congregation, they have a serious problem on Judgment day.
This is good! I love how these guys show respect for those who they disagree with. Just an observation. Those 'poor widows' that Peters says supported Hinn had their own free will to give or not. If they had been reading their bibles they would have understood that they could not buy God. Hinn is part of the WOF and it was the prosperous followers of WOF that supported Hinn. They had the faith to believe that God wanted to bless them in their jobs and businesses. The Bible says its by faith that we please God not by our works lest any man should boast. (I am not a supporter of Copland or the extreme position of WOF.) I am an older widow with limited funds and take great joy in being able to support the ministries that I do. God has blessed me.
A pastor who poured so much into my life had a very poor widow in his previous church who gave him tithes and offerings. Her children excoriated him for taking it so pastor told her to keep because she needed it worse. She was horribly hurt and asked if why, if he loved her, would he deny her the blessings of God from obedience to his word. Pastor said I fell to my knees before her and begged her forgiveness and prayed that God would open fountains of blessings and provision over her. Lesson learned!
Benny Hinn taught Finis Dake teaching 3 spirits 3 bodies 3 souls That's the context But it's hypocritical of Trinitarians to say thrones are 3 literal and not possibly consider this view.
Heresy hunting reminds me of this and preceding verses; Matthew 23:24 NASB1995 [24] You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel! Their indignation is not righteous. Nothing wrong with identifying errors, but it should not be a vocation.
Where in the Bible does it say that you can’t have a TH-cam channel teaching people how to discern and show them why a teaching is false? These preachers are out there in public on a regular basis. They need to be called out publicly and consistently. My dad has given tens of thousands to Hinn. Hinn, whether we like it or not, is the visible church.
51:49 I think restitution and forgiveness go hand-in-hand. If you don’t admit that you did something wrong and it doesn’t cost you something to write that wrong then I don’t feel like there’s true repentance. Like when we turn from our wicked ways, it cost us relationships things we could enjoy, but has become sin in our lives. but like the rich guy that came to Jesus wanting to be a disciple and he said sell all of your things and follow me. He couldn’t do it. And I honestly believe Benny wouldn’t be able to do it either therefore, he cannot truly be a disciple of Christ. somewhere along the way money has become his one true God, and if he doesn’t stop worshiping him, he will never let that idle go
Tell that to God, who gave us salvation absolutely free. Have you paid Him back? Also, the story of the rich young ruler was Jesus asking him if he loved God more than his wealth.
..yes i would agree. they say, if that its true then we condemn them but it feels like they are side stepping. Storms is definitely dishonest anyway (regarding the bob jones prophesies) so he is not going to want to call anyone out...
My spiritual father, in the faith, who has been for many years, and who also has a doctorate in ministry, says it this way. He divides between doctrinal disagreement, heresy, and damnable heresy. Doctoral disagreement could be an Audi opera issue that we can talk about and discuss as believers. Heresy would be a division from the body of Christ, and something that could hurt or harm people, but not send you to hell. This would be like snake handling, teaching, that we should refuse medical treatment, because we trust God, or something that could be potentially hazardous to our spiritual health. Damnable heresy would be something like those who teach that everyone will automatically be saved. That could send people to hell if they logic that out and live as though that is the case denial of the deity of Christ, denying the efficacy of the blood of Jesus, denial that Jesus Christ is the son of God, believing that Jesus is not God manifested in the flash, etc. So I think having three categories is a great idea… Doctoral disagreement, heresy and damnable heresy, that which could potentially send someone to help.
I agree there definitely has to be a line drawn between orthodoxy and those cross that line and those who cross the line need to be called out for it in love especially those in the charismatic circles.
Benny has been preaching some Sunday nights at Jesus Image. He actually is a very good teacher of the Word in that setting. Its when he does his own appearances or crusades where things get really wacky. Jackets swinging and people dropping and cessationists with more material for their YT channel.
Regarding 9 persons in the Trinity, Hinn likely got the idea from Finis Dake. Who applied the idea of humans being tripartite to the Godhead. That all 3 persons each had 3 constituent parts. Dake also said heaven is described as a place so it's a planet in outter space. He had a (seemingly) supernatural memory of scripture, but his interpretations were sus.
Exactly, Benny clarifies that in an interview. He read that in Dake's book and liked it. After the backlash he took it back. It's a weird idea but I wouldn't say it's heretical. We know Jesus was a tripartite being, there're arguments to be made regarding the Father and Spirit from scripture. Obviously doesn't meant there are 9 parts to the God head and not saying I believe that but the logic isn't completely unfounded.
I would have called myself a continuationist/charismatic up until I moved to Malawi (a wonderful country in Africa) as a missionary. Around 2022, I started to change my mind. The sheer destruction that charismatic teachings from North America have leveled on Malawian churches is disgusting. Everyone and their dog speaks in "tongues" leading to disruptive chaos, and every other church leader is an "apostle" or "prophet" who engages in some of the most illicit practices I have ever heard of. All of this done in the name of Christ. Slowly but surely I let go of my need to hold on to the 'sign gifts' and the whole world made more sense and I was able to say, "all of that hocus pocus is fake." If by some chance it is still out there, those who truly have the 'sign gifts' seriously need to stand up. They are such a disservice to the body of Christ hiding and letting Benny Hinns and other false teachers purport this chaos in the body of Christ.
@remnantradio I thought you guys did a great job. Not easy taking criticism and doing introspection of your traditions/movement but thought you were very objective and fair. I am cessationist but appreciate your views here and devotion to Christ and truth as fellow believers.
I don't know man. Ive heard them say they have to police their own movement more for years...with little result. All that's come out of that are these awful new years testing the prophets videos. Then I hear them lifting up how god fearing they are in reaction to Roseborough and how mockingly he acts in return. I'm not defending Chris, but RR needs to see this more clearly. Putting a torch to the word cessationism in a thumbnail is no less mocking than calling a person who clearly obfuscates a Dr of such practices. The issue will continue to be the conflict many see with Jesus words of many false teachers being in the world and RR definitions that appear to make it near impossible to be called one.
@@JBly4 I get you. I used to be Pentecostal and I often wonder now how I accepted some of the things I believed back then. Tradition is a powerful force. Im hoping the RR guys continue to think critically about and expose some of these guys in the movement like Benny Hinn as clear false teachers.
How many Benny Hinn shows do you need to watch to know he’s a false teacher? It takes five minutes. Stop using the excuse that you don’t have time to do an exhaustive study.
That is, if you "clip" him and find all the wrong bits of his past teachings. Having had the chance to listen to him teach multiple times within the last year, I would say all his teachings (I've heard) have been pretty orthodox and scripture-infused. Definetly nothing false
@alstroemeria227again4 I'm not. Have you had the chance to listen to more than a dozen full lengthened sermons of him? People have made such a caricature of him that it's a bit disrespectful to the completeness of what he believes. Granted, I'm not saying he's perfect in teaching or act, but I would push back and say he's a lot more orthodox than people would believe.
@@tobiassednef4977 I’ve followed him for years, decades. Every sermon is chock full of heresy. So he says some truthful things at times. How many false teachings does it take to be a false teacher? One!
Pastors and teachers are held to a higher standard. We will all have to give an account, but the mantles of Teaching & Pastor (Shepherd) come with greater responsibility. Not that believers are not free from what they say, but that if you are going to teach something(doctorine) as truth then you better know it's true. If your constantly having to retract your teachings, then everyone will be confused. And those knowing teaching contrary to the Word of God are false teachers. Examples of false prophets, Acts 13:6, Jeremiah 28-Hananiah, false prophets of Baal-1Kings 18.
Just on your comments about Benny Hinn no longer being as popular or influential than he was 20-30 years ago: Benny has shared the stage ministering publicly with several popular and prominent leaders in more recent times including Francis Chan and Bill Johnson. He describes Bill as “a dear friend.”
What about unfulfilled prophesy? Many Jews reject Jesus because of prophesies about the messiah that were not fulfilled during his earthly ministry. Was Isaiah a false prophet because not everything was fulfilled in his life time?
@@BrianLasseklet’s make this easy. If you prophesied Trump was going to win the 2020 election you are a false prophet. If Isaiah prophesied that Jesus would not be pierced he would have been a false prophet. But Isaiah prophesied accurately
This is why we are only to have 1 teacher, everyone else is just giving an opinion. ... But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.
You all Need to look into Benny Hinn, his daughter & son-in-law are operating Jesus Image. They look to be the new and upcoming movement we are talking stadium events on the coasts. With Benny as one of the headliners
I think Jody Dillow would be an interesting interview in terms of the third category you’re proposing. His work on texts like Matthew 7 (never knew me) would be interesting since he takes the position that Jesus is talking to believers that He never approved of (in terms of life an ministry, that’s how that word can be used). But the punishment, although the language is harsh, isn’t hell. I think the doctrine of rewards and the Bema puts into perspective this type of disobedient believers.
So what's a term we can coin? "Disqualified Teacher?" Man, some of these "Christian" teachers aren't Apollos, some are Simon or Balaam. This idea that a "false teacher" can't be saved is a challenge. I might be blind, but can someone share the scripture that makes that a rule? As charismatics in particular we err massively on the side of tolerating fraud and immorality, let alone poor teaching and demonic practices. I don't want a free for all, but I'm very tired of us making excuses for people and even continuing to honor their legacies if they are evidently dishonest or heretical.
Also, really getting tired of leaders treating egalitarianism as equivalent to heresy. What do these guys do with someone like Craig Keener? This is one subject that should be left to the jurisdiction of local churches and the conscience of individuals.
Benn Hinn was caught parading around Europe holding Paula Whites hand.They were both married to others at that time. I guess they thought no one in Europe would know them. You should be able to google and find that picture.
Eh. MacArthur has owned that home for 35yrs. Even assuming modest rate of improvement, he's had plenty of time to make it valuable. That's before we talk about Cali property values. I didn't know a person has to house flip into less valuable property to be a pastor. Julie Roys isn't always a straight shooter.
There are countless entire communities in California where every homeowner has millions of dollar homes. Doesn’t mean they bought them for that. People who took on a 30 year $200k modest house in a decent location 3 decades ago and never moved now own million dollar property.
Charismatics are the ones being called false teachers by these guys. I watched that first guy mocking and making fun of people. Dude was gnashing teeth and manifesting a demon on his own radio show. That Peters guy. I call him on it on his own channel. He blasphemed the Holy Spirit and horribly slandered people.
On the Luther vs Hinn debate of tue four…. Our label of false teacher needs to be applied at the time of their error. Luther was correct during the 95 thesis. But he may have been false at an old age of 95! Guessing his age. The point is discern in the moment.
Just a thought. I agree that on some level Benny Hinn and Martin Luther should be called "false teachers". I think that's the debate here - the definition of what that is. Both taught things that were seriously wrong. And I personally would not have a problem agreeing that they are both - in some sense - false teachers. However, looking at the arc of lives, they can't be put on the same level. Luther was coming out of the shackles of the Roman system - and all the theological and political implications that came with that. So while it doesn't justify what he called for, it does give it a different context from Hinn's deceitful practices. One was sincerely wrong, the other can't be said to be so (watch the different documentaries on Hinn to see a long-held pattern that is troubling). The other thing is that Luther is dead. That Hitler picked up on what he said is cherry picking. Hitler just found something someone said to justify his own warped view. So to lay that at the feet of Luther is stretching things a bit. That said, anti-semitism is still anti-semitism. Luther's teachings have been separated out so that we recognize the bad and have kept (I hope) the good. Luther cannot ACTIVELY corrupt the church with more bad doctrine. Hinn, however, can. Hinn can also repent - something that is beyond Luther's ability (as far as I know). And I think that's part of the difference between the two. But again - both are (and were) in some sense "false teachers". I just don't think the side-by-side comparison is entirely helpful.
@@somemedic8482 That's one reason I like Remnant Radio. They have meaty topics and are (as far as I can tell) reasonable. I don't always agree with them but iron definitely sharpens iron....
They've addressed this numerous times as have many others. You sound like a catholic that goes on about 44,000 protestant denominations. Is your next trick to pull out the debunked view that 1 Cor 13 says tongues has ceased because the Bible has come
Nah, he just owns three expensive properties, took full time salaries from TMU/S, GCC, and GTY for years, and prctices nepotism in handing out hefty service contracts....all while condemning others for rolling in dough.
@@ericedwards5034he’s been living in Cali for 40 years! His property values went up with time. I have a property in NYC that I bought low and now is worth three times as much. In ten more years, it will be worth more. That’s how it works.
Jesus said in Matthew 7:1: judge not. He also said in that same chapter: "You would know a false prophet by their fruit" which is their words or actions. Therefore, he clearly claimed we should judge a false prophet by the things he says and does in view of his warning to judge not. So it must be SAFE to use those metrics to judge a prophet as false. Why are we so afraid to believe him on this point?
I Believe a Points being missed.. ! 1. Is New Christians.. MAYBE misled! 2. People who are seeking Christ in 4th World Countries.. MAYBE asked for Money! 3. Sick People, Who are told THEY (MAY )not have enough Faith, when they Go For Healing, if they Not healed!
Benny Hinn taught the nine Persons doctrine back in October 1990. He then became an Assemblies of God minister in 1994, and left the AoG in 1996. Hinn would not have been permitted to hold to a 9-Person Trinity while with the AoG denomination.
My limited understanding of his comment on that isn't that he advocated a DOCTRINE of such, but made a speculative comment about that, and later distanced himself from that comment... because it wasn't a doctrine.
If you watch the clip, @@ravissary79 , Hinn was instructing/teaching with authority. Not only that, they had to pull first printing of Hinn's "Good Morning, Holy Spirit" book because he was teaching (in the book) that every little sin a believer commits -- causes Holy Spirit to leave one's body until it's repented of. Frankly, Hinn taught a lot of whacky stuff back in the early 90's.
Can we condemn ppl to hell anyway? We can call out false teaching/error. we can mark and avoid. We can say they are not qualified to teach or be an overseer based on biblical stds. We can call for repentance/call out sin.... But we are often not even doing these things. Much damage is done to the body i the meantime.
At 32 minutes it is suggested that a third category is needed between true and false teacher. The biblical solution is just what you suggest, that not all believers should be followed. The answer comes out in the Corinthian dilemma in 1 Corinthians 1 - 4. In chapter 3, Paul indicates that there is only one foundation (Jesus Christ and him crucified) but we must be careful how we build. Straw will be burned up. Nothing built by some will survive, BUT, they will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames. Not all who teach false doctrine are unrepentant, persistent, automatically headed to hell. I believe Brown is mistaken here. It is his making, not Peters and Osman, or Scripture. Simon Peter said that Jesus would not die and Jesus said "get behind me Satan." He was talking to Peter! the same Peter of whom Jesus had just said "Blessed are you Simon, son of John. This was revealed to you by my father in heaven." Peter denied Jesus. Peter died for Jesus. Michael Brown uses this false narrative as an accuse to not rebuke some false teachers. 1 Timothy chapter 1, the first instruction given to Timothy is to command certain men to teach false doctrine no longer. You guys definitely seem to be moving further in that direction in acknowledging and encouraging by example that this must be done in the body of Christ. Then, however, you endorse Brown with his unequal measures rabbit trail, and you repeat the unequal measures line repeatedly. James and John wanted to call down fire from heaven on Samaritans that refused to welcome Jesus. Lutheresque? Jesus rebuked them for it and yet wants them with him praying in the garden of gethsemane the night before he dies. Luther is no longer alive so rebuke his statements as Jesus would. Luther lashed out against unbelieving Jews in the flesh. Luther also was led by the Spirit in much of his doctrine and ministry. A veritable jar of clay. Brown's focus on the fruit of Luther's flesh and not even a mention of his conversion, sound doctrine, 95 thesis, here I stand, reforming of the church, hymns, etc. show that he is in the flesh trying to win an argument and not being led by the Spirit like he is when he is faithfully witnessing to Jews and fighting the good fight of faith against fierce opposition like Tovia Singer. Is Brown a brother in Christ? Based on his confession of faith and foundational teaching, ABSOLUTELY. Like Paul suggests in 1 Cor. 3, he may be building with Christ as the foundation with some materials that are precious and with some that are not, and will not remain when tested with fire. This is an important word for all of us. Be careful how you build.
Benny Hinn has a healing ministry but his teaching contains lots of heresy. His recent endorsement from TB Joshua, to most recently Prophet Lovy Elias and Passion Java seems to show there is a lack of discernment. But it's always hard to judge as on the other hand When he ministers and teaches at Jesus image school ministry the feedbacks have been mostly positive but when he hang out with some foreign pastors or old school word of faith preachers it's different
No that's not true at all you can check online Jesus image is Michael and Jessica's ministry. Let's be accurate. You can check anywhere. Benny Hinn is not the Head
@@IAM2388lol, yeah his name isn’t on the building, but he built the building, it used to be his church that he founded, and now his daughter and son in law are the seniors. lol. Yeah you’re right, let’s be accurate.
*RE: BENNY HINN* *Go back and review your interview with Francis Chan discussing meeting Benny.* C’mon man he knew EXACTLY who Francis Chan was when he walked in that room. 😂🙄 It’s been a while but when I was listening to Mike Winger’s exhaustive review…. almost the same exact words he had said to Francis came up. C’mon man. TIME IS SHORT! YOU GOTTA KICK THAT DEMON OUT AND GET RIGHT WITH THE LORD, BENNY. SERIOUSLY. Unpopular Opinion: I actually believe he’s a brother and he’s in SERIOUS bondage and in SERIOUS danger….appears as though he took the bait (the love of money & the cares of this life) as a young man and has never been able to truly break free (just like a drug addict). 😞
Justin Peterson’s list of what Benny Hinn would say and do if he was truly repentant was CLEARLY an angry rant from Justin’s own heart. No one would actually say it like that about themselves and their own ministry. Peterson was saying that Hinn would renounce all his teaching and admit that he was lying for years and years. That’s not what Benny Hinn or what anyone believes about their own ministry and that level of deception means that everyone except those who agree with Justin knew that Benny Hinn’s ministry was pure lies and that everyone else is fully deceived. He is literally dead set on demonizing everything in Benny Hinn’s ministry and he claim’s to know the intentions of Benny Hinn’s heart which is clearly overstepping the line and playing God. I do not agree with Benny Hinn’s ministry, but I could feel or sense an overstepping judgment al spirit in what JP was saying. It was a ridiculous standard to set that he would not set for himself. He was reading all his own condemnations and anger into it. No bueno
Exactly! Glad that Josh pushed back with his statement about setting an impossible standard. That's one of the issues with these types of interactions. The cessationist will set up a standard that no one can reach, yet feels perfectly justified not having nearly that standard for his own camp. That's why it was so telling when Dr. Brown brought up Martin Luther. Immediately the standard for what constitutes a false teacher morphed so that one of the Reformed "heroes of the faith" can still be put on an ungodly pedestal, while Benny Hinn can still be held in contempt.
Justin's contention that Hinn's ministry must be shut down is from the sheer magnitude of wealth Hinn has gleaned from the poor, the sick, and the desperate with his "sow a seed to get your miracle" routine, with his ministry being the receiver of the seed. If Hinn truly repents, he can't in good conscience just sit on his pile of money and enjoy it. It is also not feasible to track down every recipient and return it, hence the donating the funds to Biblically-based ministries. Peters is also fair. He's made offers that if he can demonstrably be proved wrong, he will shut his ministry down as well.
When I think of hucksters in the ministry I think about those people who are commercializing the teaching of Christ and unfortunately there seems to be a lot of that happening today and many seems to be charismatic but to say that all charismatics are that way would be far from being true.
I don't think anyone says all charismatics do those things. Many would argue that most charismatics allow others to do them ad nauseum without repercussions though...
..well interestingly I did one of their theology modules during lockdown and they were coming against the atonement... I have studied theology previously and you do have certain theologians that do this eg Tom Wright and they used theologians like that to support their argument.... Hillsong typically are just very lose in their theology so anyone gets to speak, there is no discernment. Bethel are into dominion theology (latter rain, NAR) and the new age through their book The PHysics of Heaven so they are quite intentional with their false doctrine.... However (apart from the atonement which is pretty serious) they just let anyone come and speak so they move in the same circles as Bethel and so you would get some of their teaching...
Very good. One thing i have realized is that nobody has all correct theology. There are foundational truths but outside of those everybody has different views. The trouble comes when you want to renounce everyone who doesn't believe it what you believe.
That's it! I feel sullied listening to JP harshly judge other believers. I think his standard for error and false teachers is anyone who doesn't believe exactly what he believes.
Love you guys addressing this middle of the road approach. I really thought I was out here alone 😂😂😂
I’d call you middle of the road if you didn’t falsely represent John MacArthur
@@carsonsnavely4641this is nonsense. MacArthur has a long history of mishandling church abuse. Denying this shows you clearly lack just scales.
@@RuslanKD I can’t comment on the abuse situations. I have no inside information on that. (I do not trust Julie Roy’s like apparently you do. She is not middle of the road.) But your representation of MacArthur’s wealth and lifestyle was inaccurate.
"Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil. Cling to what is good." So where is the middle of the road? Sam Storms gushing over Mike Bickle in numerous videos that have been now scrubbed?
The Kozar's showed that you lied about the Cessationist movie, via refusing to watch it and have any idea what you were talking about.
If Paul himself openly called out people by name for wrongdoings... how much more should we the modern day church when EVERYTHING is recorded via video and we can see the false teachings openly aired. Love you guys!
We must dicipher the difference btw 'faults' & even gross cultural blindspots AND pervasive patterns of deception, sin, manipulative misuse of truth in abusive ways. Labeling those dynamics & forbidding reinstatement of power over people officially IS NOT condemning them to hell.
36:57-38:20 was so refreshing to hear from Michael. I got saved in the charismatic church and am now reformed, and I have repeatedly over the years seen a refusal to condemn false teaching, and beyond that, basically telling those who do that they’re being too critical for doing so. And also letting sin slide and not walking through Matthew 18 church discipline. Rountree basically described what I’ve experienced consistently over the years
The critics in the Reformed church seem to, usually, think the worst of those with whom they disagree.
”Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.“
1 Corinthians 13:4-7 ESV
Not suggesting that love tolerates false doctrine. But, maybe gives your brother the benefit of the doubt.
amen, brother!
Correcting in God's love is key. Going to your brother is protocol....., was this done by these men beforehand?
It's not just Reformed. I've been in holiness churches, Arminian Baptist churches, and AG churches.
*Everyone* finds it easier to throw rocks at another tradition than their own.
@@v.maiden483It’s not needed because these false teachers are speaking publicly. It’s being done out in the open not behind closed doors.
They don't normally think the worst..... some do.
You are being the critic now.
Do you not hear Brown criticising - he's rather ferocious?
Often big church leaders criticise the more traditional churches as boring, as pharisees, .... not having the spirit, dead ...
It's a shame. It would be better if discussions were more productive and in good faith.
just remember, a wolf won't be looking like a wolf.
What does a sheepskin look like?
So I consider myself a Calvinist for the most part, but I think this is my new favorite channel! I have felt so much unrest between charismatics and secessionists that I have not been able to reconcile the two. Both should show compassion and graciousness from one to the other and I think this channel does just that. Thank you guys so much! Finally!!!!!!
When Miller told Roundtree that he could tell he gained weight, I spit out all my coffee 😂😂😂
Allen Parr utilizes three categories when assessing pastors/teachers: recommended, not recommended, and false. That may suffice for you guys as well.
Life long pentecostal here. I have never listened to any sermon from benny hinn.
Same.
I have listened to a couple recently. Nothing wrong with what I heard at all. He did not preach prosperity or anything weird. He preached on salvation and did an alter call and a few hundred people accepted Jesus as their savior. He read from the Bible. I always thought he seemed weird. He was not that day. He could have been any other pastor.
@@paulmerritt2484 I try my best but when I listen to JP when he’s in discernment mode I cringe inside and can feel creeping death come upon me
It’s refreshing to hear your biblical approach and I appreciate the comments by other listeners who track with you rather than take detours.
I don’t know guys, I’m tired of the honorariums for preachers that live in $1-2M homes
It think it depends where you live. Down here in Miami right now, my father's normal 4-2 smallish home is worth almost $1 million. Far from lavish.
That is the average price of a house in Toronto. It is not all that much money anymore. These guys also donate million of their own money usually. We are told to checl the fruits and not the money. Are people getting saved?
44:00 Roundtree may be the most level-headed in the group. Stop being afraid to call someone out for false teaching. That's how wolves enter the flock. Be loving. Be like Jesus.
Martin Luther is dead. We can't rebuke him. Benny Hinn and the leaders of Bethel are alive. We can rebuke them still. Whether or not we call them "false teachers" or not, we need to rebuke them and point out their false teachings.
I enjoyed this conversation. I certainly believe that the Internet has opened the door for more Christians to, at times, carelessly throw people out of the Kingdom under the guise of false teaching. We should be so practiced in our knowledge of scripture that we recognize truth when we hear or read it and not throw the baby out with the bath water over tertiary issues.
Grace and Mercy , we all need it.
Michael Kolianos should never have allowed Benny to be a part of his ministry. He’s seen 1st hand the gross crap of his father-in -law
Im curious... I attend Michael's church and have loved it there, and to me it seems he honors Benny enough to allow him to teach on specific things. Do you find a big disconnect between their ethos's?
Michael Kolianos makes me nervous. I can't place it, but something just seems... off.
@@goodtogaz Interesting. Would you say it's because you're uncertain that he'll start sneaking in false doctrines into his teachings? Or his overall teaching style? I think recently, he's started preaching in a similar vein as Orthodox pastors, which tends to be pretty declarative and assertive of Christology (which I personally like).
@tobiassednef4977 I don't follow him as much. My wife used to listen to him more, maybe about a year ago, and my parents did attend a service at Jesus Image. Unfortunately that service was basically a business meeting about the new facility plans. So my perspecive is very much limited. Though, when I have heard him preach is strikes me as a lot more to appeal to individual expressionism and much less to full exegesis of the Word, which is what I strongly prefer. Some of the music and my external, limited perceptions of the nature of the church gives me unsettled feelings. And I'm definitely a flaming charismatic! Grew up in AG and now at a 3rd wave church. I'd take what I'm saying with a grain of salt, but yeah that's the best I can explain it.
Thank you so much for this approach to working through these issues and conflict.
I really enjoy your discussions they seem to be very on point and similar to my own beliefs so thank u for being a breath of fresh air
There is a movement coming out of Charismatics where the Word of God will be equally valued as the Spirit of God. Preaching in power with demonstrations of power.
Oakchurch, I don’t understand. Are you saying that demonstrations of the gifts of the Spirit as is talked about in the Bible?
I hope you are right. This comes from being saved in a reformed baptist church and then getting caught up in a charismatic church for 11 years. Now I am in a covental reformed church because of craziness that I called out and was told to leave.
@@MrRudymancha the Bible absolutely says to desire spiritual gifts. Nowhere in the Bible does the Word of God say the gifts ceased. Nowhere does the Bible say certain gifts were for the Apostles only. This does not excuse the abuse and misuse of the gifts, or the faking of these gifts.
@@righteousrebelmedia5934 I agree . I pray in a tounge . I do believe that spiritual gifts are real only when God says so to use. I don't believe that people have a gift of healing. I believe that we are to pray for the sick and God decides if they get healed or not.
@@MrRudymancha I guess we differ a little. I believe in all 9 gifts still in operation today. But I won’t harp on minor issues. We are living in the last days, the most important thing right now is to reach the lost and loved ones our Lord Jesus Christ. God Bless.
I think if you guys were to do a review on Benny Hinn, be sure to factor in his interactions with Michael Koulianos (Jesus Image), his son-in-law. I know everybody talks about Costi Hinn's story, but I think Michael's also deserves some attention, as he's taken the opposite way of interacting with Benny while still leading a very gospel and Christ centric movement.
I've been a part of Jesus Image Church for the past year and have been very satisfied with the worship, teaching, and culture there, especially among charasmatics. Everything that is done is done for the glory of God and the magnification of Christ. For the most part, they skip over all the "weird" parts of Charismania while upholding the supernatural; they are also expressively do not teach word of faith or prosperity gospel doctrine.
Yet because Michael has been so close to Benny since childhood, he's been a regular leader and voice in the church. As he teaches at the church monthly (and also at the school), I haven't heard him utter any false teachings (even in my skepticism). Maybe misapplication/interpretations of some verses, but nothing worthy of "false teacher". I can't speak for his past or his current living conditions, but as of the past few years, if Jesus Image is trusting him to speak regularly, then I think we should be careful with how we label him. Maybe faulty, but very reverant of Christ and the Holy Spirit.
I know people will listen to all the critiquing voices, but I think reverse perspectives like these should challenge how we accuse people and ministers. @The Remnant Radio Please consider looking into this if you make a video about Mr. Hinn in the future. Blessings!
I’d say the exact opposite about Micheal and Jesus image hence why they still partner with Hinn. You can’t take scripture serious and support Hinn, hence why Costi left.
@NicholasLove-vc5qq Have you listened to or been around Jesus Image? Because I would say that they too highly observe the scriptures, and yet are much kinder to Benny Hinn. I'm saying that even if he's had his faults, he wouldn't be on their platform if he was an obvious charlatan. That's what I'm saying: Mr. Hinn is too complex to simply throw into "heresy," thus a more comprehensive treatment is needed.
Agreed. I follow Jesus Image weekly from Tennessee, and Pastor Michael goes out of his way to address the excesses he sees in the charismatic movement. In fact, the last sermon I heard he said that he doesn’t care about prophecy or gifts whatsoever if the focus is not on Jesus and Him crucified.
Also, concerning Benny Hinn, does anyone have recent evidence of poor fruit? The sermon that Pastor Hinn gave a couple weeks ago on the blood of Christ was the strongest and most profound message I’ve heard on the subject in any circles, period. And I grew up in a Baptist church that was all about the blood.
The charismatic movement needs godly course correction in some areas, yes, but I don’t appreciate the mob mentality I see online where they gleefully send anyone they deem as a “heretic” or “false teacher” to hell as judge, jury, and executioner: “the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God.” James 1:20.
It’s honestly disheartening to see how vicious and hypocritical believers can be online, and how in the fervency of their “defense of the church” they can completely ignore the humility and grace Jesus commanded us to walk in.
Who do they think Paul served when he had to discipline the church? Jesus Christ. Paul said that there were teachers in his time who were using the platform to not only attack him personally, but did so out of envy and self-gain and YET, he did not label them as “false teachers” because he knew Christ was being preached. I’m not saying that as a free pass for non-orthodox teachings in the charismatic movement, I’m just saying that if we slowed down from the cesspool, fever pitch of social media we may benefit from godly patience and wisdom on these matters. And I’m sorry, but “hours of TH-cam videos” is not exactly a biblical model for determining these matters. Some of these creators and online critics literally propagate their own name based on attacking other Christians, often without proper context, and without any humility or repercussions when they get it wrong.
I think Paul would be absolutely shocked by what social media has done to the body overall. If we want to gauge fruit, that may be a good place to start. We are in uncharted waters when it comes to social media platforms, and the amount of self-righteous behavior, accusation, and biased propaganda that is disguised as “godly correction” is alarming.
I don’t believe one can reap good spiritual fruit on a diet of hours and hours of social media videos attacking others believers, whether their claims are true or not. God is our judge, and He will protect and Shepard His church. Before we can even discuss reform, we need to focus on the carnality in our midst (self-righteousness, slander, anger, bitterness, etc).
Thank God for His mercy and patience with us for if we had to depend on that from other believers in this age we would be in serious trouble.
God bless you and keep looking up!
Colossians 3:1-2 👆🏻
@@tobiassednef4977 yes, hence my comment. They don’t value scripture or the teachings of Jesus. It’s extremely clear. I’m sure with your logic you’d also support the LDS church and other cults. As Justin mentioned, if you can’t label Hinn a false prophet then the term has no meaning. This is extremely clear.
@@vintagebowtieguy1436 ah man. It’s so clear. It’s actually sad. This movement isn’t Christian. It’s word of faith/nar. Call it what it is. These men are liars and charlatans to the extreme level. People of this stream, fyi are viewed in the same light as LDS or JW’s.
I think you should bring Benny Hinn on your show to truly find out what he believes.
I know when I was younger, God used Benny Hinn to challenge me to draw closer to God.
What I would hear him preaching about was the importance of the Holy Spirit in our lives.
That’s actually a good idea though I bet they’d be hated for platforming him.
Some start well, but don’t finish well.
I agree. Having Hinn on would be helpful if they put his feet to the fire and don’t let him cower into vaguery.
I agree with Sam most of the time, but his refusal to call the flat out heresy of Hinn is unfortunate.
Benny Hinn's book, "Good Morning Holy Spirit" helped me early in my walk. I'd like to see Benny on this show as well...
Benny Hinn was caught having an affair with Paula White.There are pictures of them holding hands and waltzing around Europe.They were both married to others at the time.
Keep in mind the pin up boy for integrity from Storms and Brown was Bickle. Supposedly the #1 guy with impeccable credentials. Decades of abuse, and not one phrophetic, vision, dream, or whispering from God about this man being a serial sexual predator. The charismatic movement's idolatry to man is exposed yet again. This time with disastrous consequences.
Fascinating point.
Mike Bickle, Todd Bentley, baby Olive - in the case of Bethel claiming the ability to raise people from the dead, the 2020 pandemic and the presidential election - for all the self-proclaimed prophets out there... It is all judgement for the charismatic movement.
Just curious, do you apply this standard to every person or group of people? If so, then you must agree that there is no way we could trust Peter or John, the disciples of Jesus (and thus, must throw out several books in the Bible). After all, they traveled with a man for three years and had no idea he would betray Jesus.
Of course, that would be silly to say we can't trust the other disciples of Jesus because they missed the deception of Judas. Yet, that is what you are here advocating for. Perhaps it would be best if you didn't assume these things. If we are being honest, I think we all could agree we have been deceived in some form or fashion in our lives. Whether by people, ideas, or cultural norms. When you trust someone and are close, it is tough to see their faults. Or if you do recognize a fault, you are quick to give grace because you have seen the good in them as well. I'm sure they both wish they had known about this when it actually happened.
However, I find it despicable that you are using this situation to try and condemn two other men because you disagree with their theology. It's fine to call out Mike Bickels sin but it's wrong to try and make two others guilty by association. Especially when it is clear you have an ulterior motive in making them look bad.
@@chris2614-f5c the disciples were not given the prophetic gift. At least not until sometime after Pentecost. Sam Storms and others say you are sinning if you don't seek prophecy.
@michaeljguy They had the power of the Holy Spirit bestowed on them, that is clear. After all, they were able to cast out demons and see people healed. Why then didn't they hear from the Lord about Judas? Could it be the Lord chose not to reveal it them? Again, we have to be consistent in our standards we use.
It's ironic that you say they didn't have the gift of prophesy but is that the only way we can known about someone being false?
Please, Remnant guys, if you make a video about Benny Hinn, also adress David Diga Hernandez. His present teachings seem to sound, but when i saw the video of him honoring Benny, that was a hard Pill to swallow. It makes me question which charismatics i can trust. The season of a believer in which he doesn't know who to trust and where to get good teachings, are very difficult.
They've interviewed him before. If you haven't seen it I suggest you do. No answer as to benny hinn but they seem to agree for the most part with david
@@chrisgood2goThanks, I saw the video and they agree on who the Holy Spirit is and that part is ok. But he should address the elephant in the room
So thankful for y’all! You have a great level of humility that is a good example for young, aspiring ministry leaders like me. Not many people are able to recognize their own faults and see how they can learn from the other side
"Frequency of error" ~ well put.
Bethel leadership hasn’t repented from, “all that stuff.” Because one of them says, “we don’t…” then goes after and not only does it, teaches it, and writes how to do it is not repentance. That’s a wolf.
Bill said he will NEVER teach a doctrine that says healing is not God's will in every case, but they closed their healing rooms for Covid. Jmac is in the most leftist wack California territory, and his church stayed open!
Yall are amazing!
Judgment should not be rendered and retribution should not be demanded further than what you yourself would deem fair to pay back yourself if you were in that position.
And mercy triumphs over judgement.
"Ya'll are amazing!"
How judgemental of you.
I make judgments everyday! The Bible tells us to judge. It’s very easy to watch Hinn and know that he is not a Christian and he should be excommunicated from the church at large.
45:58 I do agree people should be called out. I don’t agree that is any one person’s responsibility or that it needs to be every person’s responsibility. The way that Sam and Michael are criticized is that they should just agree with these two other men on the spot or be condemned which is just ridiculous and not a Biblical standard. They have a right to disagree or say they don’t know.
After watching Peter’s and the Kozars and several others expose some of this madness and false teaching I don’t even want to be called a charismatic, continuationist is fine and I’m looking for a Lutheran church to attend because I can’t be a reformed Calvinist and I can never be a charismatic again without serious serious reform with permanent over-site.
I’m in the same boat. My church is getting crazy. Now they are saying that you must speak in tongues to be a Christian. I’m also looking at Lutheran.
I have a word from the Lord for you guys a prophecy. It starts in Genesis and ends in Revelation
Question for you guys. In this video you have an example of how a progressive teacher denied orthodoxy by denying penal substitution. I agree. How then can you guys consider the Eastern Orthodox to be “brothers” in Christ when they deny the same doctrine (among other things)? (You’ve done interviews with them and have talked about your longing for unity)
I'd assume that they may not know that was the case. Even so, there are other issues regarding EO that are concerning
@@tpw7250 in the interview itself, their guest explains that they don’t believe PSA, Michael pushes back with his understanding, she explains her rejection of PSA again, yet there’s a call for unity. I just doesn’t make sense.
@@AmericanGospel That's not good. PSA is a major doctrine
I teach PSA. But understand, nobody taught the satisfaction theory clearly prior to Anselm. And nobody taught full fledge PSA before 200 years ago. All the ECFs taught a combination of the ransom theory and the restored icon theory. Which is why the EO continued to teach those ancient approaches today. The EO thing is to not change one’s theology from the early church. They still follow the liturgy of John, Chrisistom, an eastern contemporary of Augustine.
@@chaddonal4331 so in that comment are you saying that Jesus paid the price for our sins on the cross or not !! You are sounding like Tom Wright !
As far as I can see PSA is in the bible written 2000 years ago unless you are Tom Wright who says Romans has nothing to do with salvation, Im not sure how he gets there !!
In no way condoning mockery toward any of you guys. I see the temperamental nature of the Paul guy as well. However, when it comes to sincere false prophets and bad guys, Elijah doesn't seem to pull any punches 🤔"About noontime Elijah began mocking them..." (1 Kings 18:27).
Was that a consistent pattern to Elijiah's ministry or a single occurence? And why is it so fashionable for people to use this historical account as some type of prescription for how we are to behave? There is nothing in that passage that says "Elijiah did this to the prophets of Ba'al, so Christioans mock to your heart's content!" Mockery and scorn are not supposed to be our default positions, and when we are dealing with siblings in Christ, we are supposed to deal with them in love in order to correct and restore.
My point was in regard to denoting mockery in itself as a sin, for that would be to ascribe the action of Elijah as sin 🤔
Everything else you said has nothing to do with my point and is probably best reserved for whoever the "fashionable people" are that you mentioned 🤷♂@@ericedwards5034
My point was in regard to denoting mockery in itself as a sin, for that would be to ascribe sin to the action of Elijah 🤔The other parts had nothing to do with my point and/or position; I literally said in regard to "false prophets and bad guys." I find your approach to be straw-manning the argument at best 🤷♂ @@ericedwards5034
False prophets are not siblings in Christ to be restored 🤦♂ @@ericedwards5034
Eric, false prophets are not siblings in Christ.
Good video guys. Thanks.
Thank you, Brothers 🌹⭐🌹
There are many people who have siblings that they love very much, but would never allow them to look after their children. The church has many brothers and sisters like this as well. Still siblings, but not trustworthy. That's a third category.
By Dr. Brown and Dr. Storms’ standards there are no false teachers and no ways of discerning false teachers. You aren’t a false teacher unless you have done worse than Luther’s worst sins. Also, they won’t look into even the most obvious rejections of the gospel: Copeland and Hinn’s statements which Justin even played for them
They both said if Peter’s statements about Hinn were right then they agreed he’s a false teacher. Why do you think they are off on their standards?
You should read Holy Fire by Dr Brown. He's clear regarding bad and sinful practices within charismatic circles
@@collin501 Storms has said in the past he’s convinced Hinn is a brother in Christ. Maybe they should do some research so they could benefit those in the body of Christ who listen to these false teachers.
The same with RR. It’s very sad.
What are you even talking about?
Mike Winger will be doing a video about Benny Hinn on 4/1/24
Brilliant. Recently found RR. I don't agree with every position you take, but thats true for every person's plethora of positions I've considered.
The heart posture does more to invite response, contemplation and repentance than the words themselves.
Very interesting about Luther. Very interesting about Hinn, very interesting about peddlers.
Recently read The Didache. Interesting perspective re false teachers and prophets is presented there.
Thanks again
Some great comments on this video, that as charismatics we should define the bounds of orthadoxy and call people out who stray. Well done mr miller for making a stand at 40:54; that takes guts especially when u r a speaker at a conference. God will reward you... 😊 ...with discernment.. which is far more valuable than gold !!
32:27 You are spot on. "Say nothing against" is a ridiculous tenent to hold. Holding people accountable is not a bad thing. It is a biblical thing. Don't be weak. Correct your brothers and sisters. Be strong with love and sound biblical doctrine.
Thanks for doing what you do. I want to explain all the reasons why I appreciate it but sometimes these comment sections can get a bit testy. So for now, thank you for your humility and love of the word and spirit even when under fire. I gain a lot from hearing the different perspectives you present on this channel.
15:45> OF COURSE one is a false prohet if they get even ONE prophecy wrong. Bc that is a declaration that God told them (whatever it is). God doesn't lie. One ought not say "I predict..." bc that's soothseeing.
APPROACH is extremely important, too, when calling ppl out.
Josh, who is usually rock solid on doctrine, is in his “wayward phase” brought on by an unhealthy admiration for apologists like Sam Storms. I mean, comparing someone like Benny Hinn to Apollos is not a comparison that Josh would make if he were thinking straight. On the other hand, Miller has been preaching the Word in the last two podcasts. As for the other Mike, relinquishing his leadership role in his church seems to have removed veils from his eyes. For someone who once said “those who are cautious but open is treading close to my red line” to agree with Justin Peters on anything is an encouraging sign. His citing of Zacchaeus regarding restitution was spot on, yet Josh immediately undercut his point. Josh made a valid point but his timing was suspect. Why the compulsion to immediately “balance” what others say? And his joshing about Miller has morphed into borderline revenge mocking. But Josh is a mighty man of God, and he will seamlessly right the ship when he has learned all the lessons he is supposed to learn from this stormy season of his life. Josh, as a young man who loves God and rightly divides His Word with such passion and zeal gives hope to a weary soul like mine.
Maranatha
You are way off base
@@TreeOfLifeWoodworking If you don’t take a big lead, you cannot swipe a base. On the other hand, if you take a big lead, you could get picked off. One of life’s many conundrums. Shalom
@@TreeOfLifeWoodworking If you do not take a big lead you cannot steal a base. On the other hand, if you do take a big lead you could be picked off. Just one of life’s many conundrums. Maranatha
😂
The current urgent issues also requires great distinction btw 'calling a brother' versus reinstating onto a platform of authority in ministry
If someone is making and keeping millions for preaching and there are people who have needs in their congregation, they have a serious problem on Judgment day.
Its crazy Because alot of us do not want to let go of certain beliefs, Until you open the Bible and read daily for yourself you will be easily misled.
I really would like you guys to make a video about Bill Hamon. Everytime the subject of apostle and prophets are mentioned it seems he's forgotten.
YES HE IS DEFINITELY A BIG NARite... A Founder i would say....
This is good! I love how these guys show respect for those who they disagree with. Just an observation. Those 'poor widows' that Peters says supported Hinn had their own free will to give or not. If they had been reading their bibles they would have understood that they could not buy God. Hinn is part of the WOF and it was the prosperous followers of WOF that supported Hinn. They had the faith to believe that God wanted to bless them in their jobs and businesses. The Bible says its by faith that we please God not by our works lest any man should boast. (I am not a supporter of Copland or the extreme position of WOF.) I am an older widow with limited funds and take great joy in being able to support the ministries that I do. God has blessed me.
A pastor who poured so much into my life had a very poor widow in his previous church who gave him tithes and offerings. Her children excoriated him for taking it so pastor told her to keep because she needed it worse. She was horribly hurt and asked if why, if he loved her, would he deny her the blessings of God from obedience to his word. Pastor said I fell to my knees before her and begged her forgiveness and prayed that God would open fountains of blessings and provision over her. Lesson learned!
Hinn committed adultery with Paula White.He doesn't need to be teaching.He needs to sit down ,shut up and repent!
Benny Hinn taught Finis Dake teaching
3 spirits 3 bodies 3 souls
That's the context
But it's hypocritical of Trinitarians to say thrones are 3 literal and not possibly consider this view.
My face when the cessationist position is misrepresented in the first 2 minutes.
How was cessationism misrepresented?
@@ZacMac21 “(Cessationists), who believe healing is not for today”
Heresy hunting reminds me of this and preceding verses;
Matthew 23:24 NASB1995
[24] You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
Their indignation is not righteous. Nothing wrong with identifying errors, but it should not be a vocation.
Where in the Bible does it say that you can’t have a TH-cam channel teaching people how to discern and show them why a teaching is false? These preachers are out there in public on a regular basis. They need to be called out publicly and consistently. My dad has given tens of thousands to Hinn. Hinn, whether we like it or not, is the visible church.
51:49 I think restitution and forgiveness go hand-in-hand. If you don’t admit that you did something wrong and it doesn’t cost you something to write that wrong then I don’t feel like there’s true repentance. Like when we turn from our wicked ways, it cost us relationships things we could enjoy, but has become sin in our lives. but like the rich guy that came to Jesus wanting to be a disciple and he said sell all of your things and follow me. He couldn’t do it. And I honestly believe Benny wouldn’t be able to do it either therefore, he cannot truly be a disciple of Christ. somewhere along the way money has become his one true God, and if he doesn’t stop worshiping him, he will never let that idle go
Tell that to God, who gave us salvation absolutely free. Have you paid Him back? Also, the story of the rich young ruler was Jesus asking him if he loved God more than his wealth.
I am a Charismatic, but Brown, and Storms embarrassed themselves. They won't call anyone a false teacher.
Have you watched the video mate
..yes i would agree. they say, if that its true then we condemn them but it feels like they are side stepping. Storms is definitely dishonest anyway (regarding the bob jones prophesies) so he is not going to want to call anyone out...
The discussion of Bible "hucksters" brings to mind the Bible salesman in "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?"
My spiritual father, in the faith, who has been for many years, and who also has a doctorate in ministry, says it this way. He divides between doctrinal disagreement, heresy, and damnable heresy. Doctoral disagreement could be an Audi opera issue that we can talk about and discuss as believers. Heresy would be a division from the body of Christ, and something that could hurt or harm people, but not send you to hell. This would be like snake handling, teaching, that we should refuse medical treatment, because we trust God, or something that could be potentially hazardous to our spiritual health. Damnable heresy would be something like those who teach that everyone will automatically be saved. That could send people to hell if they logic that out and live as though that is the case denial of the deity of Christ, denying the efficacy of the blood of Jesus, denial that Jesus Christ is the son of God, believing that Jesus is not God manifested in the flash, etc. So I think having three categories is a great idea… Doctoral disagreement, heresy and damnable heresy, that which could potentially send someone to help.
I agree there definitely has to be a line drawn between orthodoxy and those cross that line and those who cross the line need to be called out for it in love especially those in the charismatic circles.
Benny has been preaching some Sunday nights at Jesus Image. He actually is a very good teacher of the Word in that setting.
Its when he does his own appearances or crusades where things get really wacky. Jackets swinging and people dropping and cessationists with more material for their YT channel.
Regarding 9 persons in the Trinity, Hinn likely got the idea from Finis Dake. Who applied the idea of humans being tripartite to the Godhead. That all 3 persons each had 3 constituent parts.
Dake also said heaven is described as a place so it's a planet in outter space. He had a (seemingly) supernatural memory of scripture, but his interpretations were sus.
Exactly, Benny clarifies that in an interview. He read that in Dake's book and liked it. After the backlash he took it back. It's a weird idea but I wouldn't say it's heretical. We know Jesus was a tripartite being, there're arguments to be made regarding the Father and Spirit from scripture. Obviously doesn't meant there are 9 parts to the God head and not saying I believe that but the logic isn't completely unfounded.
I would have called myself a continuationist/charismatic up until I moved to Malawi (a wonderful country in Africa) as a missionary. Around 2022, I started to change my mind. The sheer destruction that charismatic teachings from North America have leveled on Malawian churches is disgusting. Everyone and their dog speaks in "tongues" leading to disruptive chaos, and every other church leader is an "apostle" or "prophet" who engages in some of the most illicit practices I have ever heard of. All of this done in the name of Christ. Slowly but surely I let go of my need to hold on to the 'sign gifts' and the whole world made more sense and I was able to say, "all of that hocus pocus is fake." If by some chance it is still out there, those who truly have the 'sign gifts' seriously need to stand up. They are such a disservice to the body of Christ hiding and letting Benny Hinns and other false teachers purport this chaos in the body of Christ.
Thank you for this one!
@remnantradio I thought you guys did a great job. Not easy taking criticism and doing introspection of your traditions/movement but thought you were very objective and fair. I am cessationist but appreciate your views here and devotion to Christ and truth as fellow believers.
I don't know man. Ive heard them say they have to police their own movement more for years...with little result. All that's come out of that are these awful new years testing the prophets videos. Then I hear them lifting up how god fearing they are in reaction to Roseborough and how mockingly he acts in return. I'm not defending Chris, but RR needs to see this more clearly. Putting a torch to the word cessationism in a thumbnail is no less mocking than calling a person who clearly obfuscates a Dr of such practices.
The issue will continue to be the conflict many see with Jesus words of many false teachers being in the world and RR definitions that appear to make it near impossible to be called one.
@@JBly4 I get you. I used to be Pentecostal and I often wonder now how I accepted some of the things I believed back then. Tradition is a powerful force. Im hoping the RR guys continue to think critically about and expose some of these guys in the movement like Benny Hinn as clear false teachers.
How many Benny Hinn shows do you need to watch to know he’s a false teacher? It takes five minutes. Stop using the excuse that you don’t have time to do an exhaustive study.
That is, if you "clip" him and find all the wrong bits of his past teachings. Having had the chance to listen to him teach multiple times within the last year, I would say all his teachings (I've heard) have been pretty orthodox and scripture-infused. Definetly nothing false
@@tobiassednef4977 😮 please tell me you are being sarcastic or funny.
@alstroemeria227again4 I'm not. Have you had the chance to listen to more than a dozen full lengthened sermons of him? People have made such a caricature of him that it's a bit disrespectful to the completeness of what he believes. Granted, I'm not saying he's perfect in teaching or act, but I would push back and say he's a lot more orthodox than people would believe.
@@tobiassednef4977 I just told you my history. I’ve seen too many times. Hinn is a thief and a false preacher. I’m glad I was never taken in by him.
@@tobiassednef4977 I’ve followed him for years, decades. Every sermon is chock full of heresy. So he says some truthful things at times. How many false teachings does it take to be a false teacher? One!
Pastors and teachers are held to a higher standard. We will all have to give an account, but the mantles of Teaching & Pastor (Shepherd) come with greater responsibility. Not that believers are not free from what they say, but that if you are going to teach something(doctorine) as truth then you better know it's true. If your constantly having to retract your teachings, then everyone will be confused. And those knowing teaching contrary to the Word of God are false teachers. Examples of false prophets, Acts 13:6, Jeremiah 28-Hananiah, false prophets of Baal-1Kings 18.
Just on your comments about Benny Hinn no longer being as popular or influential than he was 20-30 years ago: Benny has shared the stage ministering publicly with several popular and prominent leaders in more recent times including Francis Chan and Bill Johnson. He describes Bill as “a dear friend.”
Yes, one false prophecy makes you a false prophet, by biblical definition.
Why is this SO HARD to understand!? And I'm not against "charismania" as I was in that camp. Blessings everyone.
What about unfulfilled prophesy? Many Jews reject Jesus because of prophesies about the messiah that were not fulfilled during his earthly ministry. Was Isaiah a false prophet because not everything was fulfilled in his life time?
Prophecy is not the same as being a Prophet. Two totally different things.
@@BrianLasseklet’s make this easy. If you prophesied Trump was going to win the 2020 election you are a false prophet. If Isaiah prophesied that Jesus would not be pierced he would have been a false prophet. But Isaiah prophesied accurately
@@BrianLassekWhich prophecy was that? The only one I am aware of is his second coming.
This is why we are only to have 1 teacher, everyone else is just giving an opinion.
...
But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.
..yes thats in terms of attitude; we are supposed to have apostles (small a), prophets, teachers etc...
Its just finding the good ones eg Derek Prince
Back in the basement! At least it’s got more light now
Helpful show!! Love in Christ, from Scotland
You all Need to look into Benny Hinn, his daughter & son-in-law are operating Jesus Image. They look to be the new and upcoming movement we are talking stadium events on the coasts. With Benny as one of the headliners
I think Jody Dillow would be an interesting interview in terms of the third category you’re proposing. His work on texts like Matthew 7 (never knew me) would be interesting since he takes the position that Jesus is talking to believers that He never approved of (in terms of life an ministry, that’s how that word can be used). But the punishment, although the language is harsh, isn’t hell.
I think the doctrine of rewards and the Bema puts into perspective this type of disobedient believers.
So what's a term we can coin? "Disqualified Teacher?" Man, some of these "Christian" teachers aren't Apollos, some are Simon or Balaam. This idea that a "false teacher" can't be saved is a challenge. I might be blind, but can someone share the scripture that makes that a rule? As charismatics in particular we err massively on the side of tolerating fraud and immorality, let alone poor teaching and demonic practices. I don't want a free for all, but I'm very tired of us making excuses for people and even continuing to honor their legacies if they are evidently dishonest or heretical.
Also, really getting tired of leaders treating egalitarianism as equivalent to heresy. What do these guys do with someone like Craig Keener? This is one subject that should be left to the jurisdiction of local churches and the conscience of individuals.
Isn't by the very definition of the word ‘false’, a cessationist teacher a false teacher?
Benn Hinn was caught parading around Europe holding Paula Whites hand.They were both married to others at that time. I guess they thought no one in Europe would know them. You should be able to google and find that picture.
Eh. MacArthur has owned that home for 35yrs. Even assuming modest rate of improvement, he's had plenty of time to make it valuable.
That's before we talk about Cali property values. I didn't know a person has to house flip into less valuable property to be a pastor.
Julie Roys isn't always a straight shooter.
There are countless entire communities in California where every homeowner has millions of dollar homes. Doesn’t mean they bought them for that. People who took on a 30 year $200k modest house in a decent location 3 decades ago and never moved now own million dollar property.
Charismatics are the ones being called false teachers by these guys. I watched that first guy mocking and making fun of people. Dude was gnashing teeth and manifesting a demon on his own radio show. That Peters guy. I call him on it on his own channel. He blasphemed the Holy Spirit and horribly slandered people.
On the Luther vs Hinn debate of tue four…. Our label of false teacher needs to be applied at the time of their error. Luther was correct during the 95 thesis. But he may have been false at an old age of 95! Guessing his age. The point is discern in the moment.
Just a thought. I agree that on some level Benny Hinn and Martin Luther should be called "false teachers". I think that's the debate here - the definition of what that is. Both taught things that were seriously wrong. And I personally would not have a problem agreeing that they are both - in some sense - false teachers. However, looking at the arc of lives, they can't be put on the same level. Luther was coming out of the shackles of the Roman system - and all the theological and political implications that came with that. So while it doesn't justify what he called for, it does give it a different context from Hinn's deceitful practices. One was sincerely wrong, the other can't be said to be so (watch the different documentaries on Hinn to see a long-held pattern that is troubling). The other thing is that Luther is dead. That Hitler picked up on what he said is cherry picking. Hitler just found something someone said to justify his own warped view. So to lay that at the feet of Luther is stretching things a bit. That said, anti-semitism is still anti-semitism. Luther's teachings have been separated out so that we recognize the bad and have kept (I hope) the good. Luther cannot ACTIVELY corrupt the church with more bad doctrine. Hinn, however, can. Hinn can also repent - something that is beyond Luther's ability (as far as I know). And I think that's part of the difference between the two.
But again - both are (and were) in some sense "false teachers". I just don't think the side-by-side comparison is entirely helpful.
Thank you for being reasonable. That’s a trait that’s difficult to come by these days .
@@somemedic8482 That's one reason I like Remnant Radio. They have meaty topics and are (as far as I can tell) reasonable. I don't always agree with them but iron definitely sharpens iron....
I appreciate the nuance
Isn’t Deuteronomy 18:22 clear about how to test prophecy?
They've addressed this numerous times as have many others. You sound like a catholic that goes on about 44,000 protestant denominations. Is your next trick to pull out the debunked view that 1 Cor 13 says tongues has ceased because the Bible has come
John MacArthur doesn't say to send money so he can get a new plane.
Nah, he just owns three expensive properties, took full time salaries from TMU/S, GCC, and GTY for years, and prctices nepotism in handing out hefty service contracts....all while condemning others for rolling in dough.
@@ericedwards5034he’s been living in Cali for 40 years! His property values went up with time. I have a property in NYC that I bought low and now is worth three times as much. In ten more years, it will be worth more. That’s how it works.
The Industry of faith. It produces many mansions and fancy cars
Jesus said in Matthew 7:1: judge not. He also said in that same chapter: "You would know a false prophet by their fruit" which is their words or actions. Therefore, he clearly claimed we should judge a false prophet by the things he says and does in view of his warning to judge not. So it must be SAFE to use those metrics to judge a prophet as false. Why are we so afraid to believe him on this point?
Well then, read the novel “Where Do Ee Go Now, LORD? - Burke.” Advanced, yet a fun page-turner. Enjoy!
Too soft from the cessationists and too harsh from the charismatics--just right!👌👌
I Believe a Points being missed.. !
1. Is New Christians.. MAYBE misled!
2. People who are seeking Christ in 4th World Countries.. MAYBE asked for Money!
3. Sick People, Who are told THEY (MAY )not have enough Faith, when they Go For Healing, if they Not healed!
Benny Hinn taught the nine Persons doctrine back in October 1990. He then became an Assemblies of God minister in 1994, and left the AoG in 1996.
Hinn would not have been permitted to hold to a 9-Person Trinity while with the AoG denomination.
the tri-trinity
My limited understanding of his comment on that isn't that he advocated a DOCTRINE of such, but made a speculative comment about that, and later distanced himself from that comment... because it wasn't a doctrine.
If you watch the clip, @@ravissary79 , Hinn was instructing/teaching with authority. Not only that, they had to pull first printing of Hinn's "Good Morning, Holy Spirit" book because he was teaching (in the book) that every little sin a believer commits -- causes Holy Spirit to leave one's body until it's repented of. Frankly, Hinn taught a lot of whacky stuff back in the early 90's.
Are there true prophets in the Bible who get it wrong?
Can we condemn ppl to hell anyway?
We can call out false teaching/error. we can mark and avoid. We can say they are not qualified to teach or be an overseer based on biblical stds. We can call for repentance/call out sin....
But we are often not even doing these things. Much damage is done to the body i the meantime.
Condemnation and judgement are different. Only God can condemn. We need to judge and separate from wolves.
@@alstroemeria227again4 Agree. Hence that argument from Brown and Storms (they can't condemn someone to hell) is just derailing this serious subject.
@@BeatriceLillian Agree!
At 32 minutes it is suggested that a third category is needed between true and false teacher.
The biblical solution is just what you suggest, that not all believers should be followed. The answer comes out in the Corinthian dilemma in 1 Corinthians 1 - 4. In chapter 3, Paul indicates that there is only one foundation (Jesus Christ and him crucified) but we must be careful how we build. Straw will be burned up. Nothing built by some will survive, BUT, they will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
Not all who teach false doctrine are unrepentant, persistent, automatically headed to hell. I believe Brown is mistaken here. It is his making, not Peters and Osman, or Scripture. Simon Peter said that Jesus would not die and Jesus said "get behind me Satan." He was talking to Peter! the same Peter of whom Jesus had just said "Blessed are you Simon, son of John. This was revealed to you by my father in heaven." Peter denied Jesus. Peter died for Jesus. Michael Brown uses this false narrative as an accuse to not rebuke some false teachers. 1 Timothy chapter 1, the first instruction given to Timothy is to command certain men to teach false doctrine no longer. You guys definitely seem to be moving further in that direction in acknowledging and encouraging by example that this must be done in the body of Christ.
Then, however, you endorse Brown with his unequal measures rabbit trail, and you repeat the unequal measures line repeatedly. James and John wanted to call down fire from heaven on Samaritans that refused to welcome Jesus. Lutheresque? Jesus rebuked them for it and yet wants them with him praying in the garden of gethsemane the night before he dies. Luther is no longer alive so rebuke his statements as Jesus would. Luther lashed out against unbelieving Jews in the flesh. Luther also was led by the Spirit in much of his doctrine and ministry. A veritable jar of clay. Brown's focus on the fruit of Luther's flesh and not even a mention of his conversion, sound doctrine, 95 thesis, here I stand, reforming of the church, hymns, etc. show that he is in the flesh trying to win an argument and not being led by the Spirit like he is when he is faithfully witnessing to Jews and fighting the good fight of faith against fierce opposition like Tovia Singer. Is Brown a brother in Christ? Based on his confession of faith and foundational teaching, ABSOLUTELY. Like Paul suggests in 1 Cor. 3, he may be building with Christ as the foundation with some materials that are precious and with some that are not, and will not remain when tested with fire. This is an important word for all of us. Be careful how you build.
Benny Hinn has a healing ministry but his teaching contains lots of heresy. His recent endorsement from TB Joshua, to most recently Prophet Lovy Elias and Passion Java seems to show there is a lack of discernment. But it's always hard to judge as on the other hand When he ministers and teaches at Jesus image school ministry the feedbacks have been mostly positive but when he hang out with some foreign pastors or old school word of faith preachers it's different
Ah it’s because Jesus Image is Hinns ministry. He’s the founding pastor.
No that's not true at all you can check online Jesus image is Michael and Jessica's ministry. Let's be accurate. You can check anywhere. Benny Hinn is not the Head
@@IAM2388lol, yeah his name isn’t on the building, but he built the building, it used to be his church that he founded, and now his daughter and son in law are the seniors. lol. Yeah you’re right, let’s be accurate.
Many of our church fathers did not have it right. That's why jesus gave us the holy spirit to teeth to correct to comfort and more.
*RE: BENNY HINN*
*Go back and review your interview with Francis Chan discussing meeting Benny.*
C’mon man he knew EXACTLY who Francis Chan was when he walked in that room. 😂🙄
It’s been a while but when I was listening to Mike Winger’s exhaustive review…. almost the same exact words he had said to Francis came up. C’mon man.
TIME IS SHORT!
YOU GOTTA KICK THAT DEMON OUT AND GET RIGHT WITH THE LORD, BENNY. SERIOUSLY.
Unpopular Opinion: I actually believe he’s a brother and he’s in SERIOUS bondage and in SERIOUS danger….appears as though he took the bait (the love of money & the cares of this life) as a young man and has never been able to truly break free (just like a drug addict). 😞
Justin Peterson’s list of what Benny Hinn would say and do if he was truly repentant was CLEARLY an angry rant from Justin’s own heart. No one would actually say it like that about themselves and their own ministry. Peterson was saying that Hinn would renounce all his teaching and admit that he was lying for years and years. That’s not what Benny Hinn or what anyone believes about their own ministry and that level of deception means that everyone except those who agree with Justin knew that Benny Hinn’s ministry was pure lies and that everyone else is fully deceived. He is literally dead set on demonizing everything in Benny Hinn’s ministry and he claim’s to know the intentions of Benny Hinn’s heart which is clearly overstepping the line and playing God. I do not agree with Benny Hinn’s ministry, but I could feel or sense an overstepping judgment al spirit in what JP was saying. It was a ridiculous standard to set that he would not set for himself. He was reading all his own condemnations and anger into it. No bueno
Agreed!
Exactly! Glad that Josh pushed back with his statement about setting an impossible standard. That's one of the issues with these types of interactions. The cessationist will set up a standard that no one can reach, yet feels perfectly justified not having nearly that standard for his own camp. That's why it was so telling when Dr. Brown brought up Martin Luther. Immediately the standard for what constitutes a false teacher morphed so that one of the Reformed "heroes of the faith" can still be put on an ungodly pedestal, while Benny Hinn can still be held in contempt.
Justin's contention that Hinn's ministry must be shut down is from the sheer magnitude of wealth Hinn has gleaned from the poor, the sick, and the desperate with his "sow a seed to get your miracle" routine, with his ministry being the receiver of the seed. If Hinn truly repents, he can't in good conscience just sit on his pile of money and enjoy it. It is also not feasible to track down every recipient and return it, hence the donating the funds to Biblically-based ministries.
Peters is also fair. He's made offers that if he can demonstrably be proved wrong, he will shut his ministry down as well.
Ah, doesn’t he have a right to be angry? Also, I know several people that have done exactly what Justin prescribed.
His own nephew would say the same , have you heard of Costi Hinn he used to work for him. The fake healings ?...
When I think of hucksters in the ministry I think about those people who are commercializing the teaching of Christ and unfortunately there seems to be a lot of that happening today and many seems to be charismatic but to say that all charismatics are that way would be far from being true.
I don't think anyone says all charismatics do those things. Many would argue that most charismatics allow others to do them ad nauseum without repercussions though...
..yes the problem is you cant make money by doing holiness seminars !! 🙂
I’m interested to know your opinion on Hillsong’s theology. Are they similar to Bethel Church?
..well interestingly I did one of their theology modules during lockdown and they were coming against the atonement... I have studied theology previously and you do have certain theologians that do this eg Tom Wright and they used theologians like that to support their argument....
Hillsong typically are just very lose in their theology so anyone gets to speak, there is no discernment. Bethel are into dominion theology (latter rain, NAR) and the new age through their book The PHysics of Heaven so they are quite intentional with their false doctrine....
However (apart from the atonement which is pretty serious) they just let anyone come and speak so they move in the same circles as Bethel and so you would get some of their teaching...
If you read the law, it does demand four times restitution
...yep but just a small bit of restitution would be something... like you are actually sorry for the harm you have caused people....
How about Benny Hinn and the prosperity Gospel, he’s never repented of that?
What? Hinn is huge!!!
Luther anti-Semitism must be completely condemned I'm not Lutheran but I've always respected some of the reformed theology not all of of it though.
The Lutheran church has condemned him for those beliefs many times. Also, Lutherans are not reformed or calvinists.
Carnal Christian or unholy Christian is the label I would use teaching the doctrines of devils.