Sorry about the hats. I did not intend for them to be as big a distraction as they are to many viewers. I was cold and they hid our lavalier microphones but also managed to divert many viewers attention from the topic of the Ursa Mini Pro. Lesson learned.
The hats are fine. The only tiny problem I have is with the orange things you have hung on the back wall. They are red on the close ups ! You can't talk about a camera designed for color grading and don't do a little of it yourself :p
Tom! I’m a little star struck I get to interact with you sir. I think after late night texts to my big brother, your videos are one of my favorite sources of info/education. Looking forward to talking & hope to see you at NAB this year.
Hey guys, I've been overly enjoying this camera for a few months now. Great video, well said. I would like to comment on the "low light" matter. An other guy said in his video "There is a difference between "low light" and "no light."" I tried the Ursa mini pro at night outside with only the street lamps or in the park with the solar lamps - no issues with this camera. In the park i even had one ND filter up by mistake, forgot to take it off. The noise you might get is very well cleaned with Resolve. I recommend this camera to anyone who is contemplating over it. Forget Sony FS7, RED Raven or whatever... Upwards of this the next stop maybe is an Amira and that is many times the price. :)
Great job Curtis, I love mine and had pretty good success with BM customer service as my touch screen had to been replaced. One thing about the UMP that people don't realize is that in Raw the data rate actually low compared to RED since it is loseless and(4:1or 3:1) and the media is so much cheaper compared to RED mags if you were to shoot even 4:1 on red the data rate at 5k is around 895mps. I get haters all the time when I compare the epic 5k to Ursa. But the skin tones are so much better on the Ursa. Also for single operators who don't have the budget for a 1st AC the Ursa mini pro is by far the best out there. Thanks Curtis
Useful and interesting session. Good to hear about the challenges in moving to real cinema quality production. Thanks to both of you for taking the time to put it together.
If you have the dongle version of resolve contact BMD and they will give you a serial number so that you can get rid of your dongle. Great review guys.
Another review that achieves your high standard, this one is particularly gratifying because it agrees with my impressions as a three week UMP owner. Yes, confirmation feels good. The color rendering is to die for, especially with good glass. I love this camera, but I have one "con" to add: the placement of the physical volume controls. In ENG situations having the camera is on my shoulder (9kg with a Fujinon zoom), I have a hard time making recording volume adjustments. Already I have had two situation outdoors with street interviews of people who turned out to be loud speakers. Loud speaking is good for interviews in noisy places, but in their cases I am just lucky they did not clip. One more small quibble: Why would I need a high frame rate key next to two function keys? It would be much better to have the programmable function key on the camera body.
The freefly movi pro will handle the ursa mini pro. I recently purchased one myself however it is pia to balance. Of course I'm running a misfit atom mattebox with 4x5.65 glass filters, zeiss cp2 lenses, wireless follow focus, carbon fiber rods, both side and upper cheese plates, dual external ssd's with the required cfast breakout cables as well as xlr to tap for power and xlr to dc and sdi for monitor. It takes a seriously long time to configure the balance but when done works pretty great. It is heavy tho. Just picked up a ready rig gs which is a spine savior. It's definitely not a rig set up for the timid or budget baller but filming gimbal shots with the ursa mini pro is pretty awesome.
Hi Curtis and Cary. Thanks. It was the 'Production' focus - particularly the need for interior lighting set ups - along with the size/weight that took this off my candidate list. Otherwise it was VERY attractive and you've covered all the considerations it took me many months to analyse very well! At the price it is exceptionally good value - for the right sort of work. Bob.
This is a great point that maybe we should’ve gone more in depth on. I was fortunate that Curtis upgraded from his GH4 to a GH5 and sold me his GH4 at a deep “family discount”. If I were able to only have one camera (I also have a Nikon D750), there’s a high probability it wouldn’t be the UMP. I’m learning a lot about lighting (by the grace of Curtis) because of it though.
I really enjoyed this, even though I will never be in the market for a "real" video camera, I understand now a lot better why they exist and why real videographers use them whenever possible. Great job, once again.
Perfect timing on this one for me, Curtis... current BMCC 2.5k and BMPCC shooter, planning on the UMP upgrade shortly... been fighting off pals who are recommending the Canon C200... while I can’t say I dislike the color science & DR on the c200, something about that UMP image, like your brother stated... also, like you mentioned, that workflow with the Cinema Raw Light, meh. I chose the BMCC because the 2.5k spoke to me; it had an image that when shot/graded properly, I did not see in other cameras in that range... also, it reminds me (when sets/shots are lit properly) about everything I love about & think about when I hear the term ‘cinema.’ Nothing clinical, plenty of range when shooting raw. Looking fwd to using the Nikon glass & SSD’s with the UMP after the recent additions! Thanks for a great video and the stories from customer service as well.
Sludgetail you’re a man after my own heart. I was camera poor when I first got my UMP, but had a lot of Nikon glass I’ve been adapting. I’m not sure if it’s my ignorance, but I really like the ump in combination with the older Nikon glass. I could do w/o the breathing while focusing, but it looks really good to my eyes. The closeup on Curtis is my UMP+an old Nikon 50mm 1:2.0
hey brother you're in the market for the right camera, I actually am *not selling mine, in fact, I bought another MFT because I'm seriously in love with the image and everything you're able to do in post when shooting raw. the good news is, they've got another used MFT -- mine came in the box, with resolve, great condition and at a crazy price. shoot me an email via contact on elbyseafilms.com and i'll get you linked up so you can check the specs on the other used one they have :)
Thanks! I added a link to a separate piece where I evaluated the microphone inputs. The analogue preamps are noisy but the fact that the inputs also support AES digital in is very useful. I can use my Sound Devices 633 to do the heavy lift and then send a digital AES signal to the Ursa Mini Pro to record with picture. Very nice.
I'm on my second viewfinder and my second lcd screen with my Ursa Mini Pro. Obviously there is a quality control issue with these cameras. Image quality is superb. I had the same screen issue with mine, and they said they replaced the lcd. I haven't had the problem since. My experience with customer service was not so great this last time (the lcd screen). I was without a camera for two weeks. I asked for a loaner while they were fixing mine and they said no. It also cost me $100 in shipping with the insurance. Not happy about that at all.
I am also experiencing random LCD freezes since the last two updates. I have 2 UMPro's, one sometimes freezes completely and a power down and letting it cool is the only fix. Not funny on set. Will RMA, but still love the cam.
Vj One I feel your pain. My next big acquisition will likely be a second UMP body. Primarily for shooting two angles, but also as insurance while the bugs are worked out.
This kind of freeks me out . I have a video Productions company (just started) . We do live music videos and do takes also. But if a camera started (stopping) from over heating it would ruin the shoot.
Some feedback: This video is great, and I’m wondering if there’s anyway you could do an informal BTS of this style video. It would be invaluable to me to see how you setup your lights, audio, camera angles, focal lengths, b-roll, etc since I’m getting into this style of filmmaking. I realize that would be a lot of work on your end, but perhaps it would be beneficial to you since you’d get two quality TH-cam videos out of essentially just one shoot. Either way, I’ve been subscribed for a long time and benefited a ton from your content, so thank you. Best of luck in 2018!
I think we were just using window light. There’re two 4’x6’ frosted windows in that room that face east so it makes some pretty nice light in the morning. I can’t remember if we used any supplemental lighting. Curtis?
For those who don't know. Moiré patterns are the extra lines and patterns that appear when you have two similar, but slightly different patterns laid on top of each other. if you put the word moiré patterns into TH-cam you'll get a video from Tom Scott that explains it a lot better
I bought an Ursa Mini Pro last December and have come across a strange sensor issue. I first noticed strange vertical lines in my mid day skies on some shots. Contacted BMD, they asked me to shoot a properly exposed clip at 4.6k Uncompressed raw to see if its a sensor issue or just compression artifacts. And when they received the clips they agreed something was wrong and asked me to ship it back. after a week of them trying to fix it they told me they couldn't fix it so they sent me a new one. Second one arrived I tested it, same issue. I went trough the process again and they noticed that indeed there was some artifacts. They guided me through a process of doing a thorough sensor calibration, warming up the camera for about an hour with the bodycap on and running a sensor calibration. It helped but the lines were still there and worst in prores and a strange band of light magenta on the bottom of the image. They then agreed to take it in for inspection and I shipped it to them. After another week they said they improved the image and they shipped it back to me. I got it back and the vetical lines were worse. After another week of going through the same process they sent a strange generic response of how the camera is performing within expectation and that FPN is normal when pushing dark images. Funny thing is that every frame they got from me was of bright day light sky and never anything dark. I asked them what dark images they were talking about and asked for them to help me fix the issue or find a solution because I had lost an important client because of this issue and I had just bought the camera new 5 months ago. As of now I have been dealing with this for over 4 months and Blackmagic Design is now just ignoring the problem and just giving me the run around. After begging, literally by email, they agreed to replace the camera once again and i haev a feeling that if the new camera has the same issue they are most certainly going to just say that its working as intended instead of just admitting to this as a sensor issue, like the first Production 4k camera fiasco about FPN that was denied and ignored until enough people voiced their frustration and they finally admitted that it is in fact the sensor and not user error. here is a small sample of the first Ursa mini Pro I had. its simple. Shoot outside, blue sky, native Iso( recommended by BMD), expose a little to the right( recommended by BMD), apply BMD 4.6k 709 Lut( recommended by BMD), and adjust color and contrast to your liking and 8 out of 10 chances are that you'll see vertical FPN in your sky and acording to BMD its within spec. th-cam.com/video/gYngDGUsdgg/w-d-xo.html Second Ursa Mini Pro( i have a ton of examples of the second one, this was a quick one I did for the UMP group in Facebook) th-cam.com/video/O3n2FgxX5EI/w-d-xo.html In conclusion with an Ursa Mini Pro/4.6k: Be cautious with your darks, be cautious with your mid-to-highs , expose to the right always, and hope you don't have a defective sensor/have it within "spec"
Question: If you get the big LCD "studio monitor" (or whatever they call that gizmo), can that do everything the "eyepiece viewer" accessory supports? Also, does one or both of them let you view the image magnified 4x or more so you can absolutely, positively get perfect focus?
I'm making many shorts and a full length feature I am almost done with with the Ursa Mini Pro! I love it and I am new to cinema cameras! I actually sold Cary his camera haha.
Hey Curtis fantastic overview! But tell me how you got those Anton Bauer G90 batteries to charge, I recently bought them and none of my chargers can change them. Anton Bauer sold me a firmware chip assuring me that's all I needed for my twin charger and nothing. Do I need the newer Anton Bauer performance charger or something?
Oh lawwd, $800 more. I knew it but thought I could avoid that. Thank you so much for confirming that, now I know what I have to do and won't cut corners.
On the bright side, it is a very nice charger - with the touch screen you see its memory, charge cycles, and lots of other info that is useful. Best wishes!
One of the better "reviews" of the UMP I have enjoyed so far. Did I understand from this that you can record raw on the SSD and simultaneously record proxy files on the SD cards? other quality Pro Res on the SD?
Hi John, thanks. No, the UMP is not capable presently of recording separate proxy files at the same time it records raw or ProRes, unfortunately. This is not a good camera for proxy workflow unless you don't mind making the proxies from raw or ProRes in post before the edit.
Hi Joseph, I assume you are asking about the SSD recorder add on and where to find it? If so, B&H has it here: bhpho.to/2Cs5eNP If you are asking how to configure the SSD recorder, it is a matter of first attaching it to the Ursa Mini Pro (the screws are torx, not allen/hex). Then you connect the two cameras. Then on the camera's screen, you select the SSD recorder as the card to record to. Best wishes!
Thanks for the review, that was a lot of great info. One hat would have been no problem, your brother was pulling it off, but i get it that your sound wouldnt have been as good , but think the lesson learned for filmmakers is about production design and is it helping to tell your story or distracting
Great summary! I was shooting on the ursa mini this week and have been blown away by how sharp the images are (especially compared to a dslr). Is this because for HD the camera does a full sensor read out and then down samples? Do any dslrs do this (e.g. The upcoming z6)? The images really are so much more detailed (in colour too, of course!), but I generally hugely prefer the nimbleness of a dslr...
Good questions. I believe that the Ursa Mini (and pro) goes into a windowed mode when shooting HD meaning it does not use the entire sensor but does a full readout of a portion of the sensor. Many of the older DSLRs do funky line skipping which can definitely result in moire issues and potentially some softness as well. The GH series from Panasonic and many of the Sony alpha cameras read out the entire sensor.
@@curtisjudd very useful to know! The detail you get is really incredible - looks like a whole other resolution! I'm guessing it's too early to say whether the nikon Z series do this though? I have nikon glass and am resisting a switch!
I though it was interesting when you described colour adjustment at the end of the vid- Personally I'm not a fan of LUTs, and have no problem working with "milky" looking log footage. I tend to use (read "always" use) a colour chart when slating, and shoot in S-log (or even the Technicolor Log if shooting with a DSLR); then the first thing I do in Resolve is correct with the chart to get what I call "Really-real-reality". I find it very fast, and the results are stunning, every single time. After that I'm doing colour-correction to either correct/balance the look, or to adjust the mood of the piece. I've yet to hear about anyone using this kind of workflow, but I seem to get amazing results with it. Did I mention it's fast? ;) Any thoughts?
Hi Ross, I only use the LUT to manage the color transforms. I still do all the grading to optimize the lift, gamma, and gain, etc. Using a color chart is another way to do it that is completely legitimate though doesn't necessarily take into account all of the color science and non-linear transforms of the camera being used. That said, I do it sometimes as well and it can be a nice complement to using the stock LUT to manage the color transforms: th-cam.com/video/xJjY3Djj0Wg/w-d-xo.html
Hello there, loved your impressions. I'm kind of new to cinematography and I was wondering if you could answer a question. I understand that with this camera a lot of the work is done post production, at least to get it to a cinematic look. But when you say its not that great for low light, do you mean it would be a bad camera for lets say a horror/vampire/night movie or are you saying that as long as you step it up on the lighting department and do your due diligence, you'll be alright? Thanks again.
My take is that if you light, this camera does great, even for low-key work like in a horror movie. When most people talk about "low light performance," they often talking about situations where they just use existing light in a place where there isn't much light at all. You can still get a very dark look if you light properly.
I'm looking into upgrading to a new camera from my Nikon D610. Would love the Ursa Mini Pro but my budget is only $4000. I was looking at the Nikon D850 or Panasonic GH5 or would you save up for the Ursa mini pro?. Can you give me any suggestions on stepping up to a 4k camera to shoot a feature film. I have a set of Nikon AIS lenses (28mm, 50mm, 85mm, 105mm). I respect your opinion on which route would you take if you was in my shoes?
Hi Staylo, That's a tough call. You've identified 3 very different cameras with different sensor sizes. I'd probably go for the GH5 and that's coming from an owner of the D750, Ursa Mini Pro, and GH5. I'd scratch the UMP due to cost ($6000 is the base cost and you'll still need batteries, media, adapter, possibly shoulder rig, cinema/eng tripod quick release, etc.) I'd scratch the D850 from an ergonomics point of view and use the D610 for shots where I want the full-frame sensor look (i.e., "beauty and hero shots"). The GH5 with an adapter for those AiS lenses can produce some very nice pictures. Best wishes!
Curtis Judd Thank you for replying. I want to commend you. I feel this is what's its all about. Helping others. Continue with the things you do. I have learned a lot from you and I appreciate it.
Hi! Thanks for the awesome review/talk. I own the UMP 4.k and the pro. You mentioned the “LUT that ships with it” and how it’s something that needs to be utilized. Would you mind telling me where that is located? Thanks!!
Hi Curtis. Excellent insights! I debated between this camera and the C100 mkII after the price drop. I've heard some concerns about the Ursa Mini Pro outside of controlled conditions and I ultimately went with the Canon for its versatility. But it sounds like the Ursa produces some wonderful images. With that being the case, what do you personally prefer: a camera that can do a little bit of everything like the C100 or a camera like this that can produce some wonderful cinematic images? Thanks!
Hi David, thanks! I prefer a camera that efficiently and elegantly works in the type of shooting the owner does. If one needs autofocus as a priority, the Canons will undoubtedly be a better choice. For me, working with ProRes is central to my corporate video workflow. The AES digital inputs for sound and timecode inputs also fit my audio priorities so they were factors too. I have been tempted a thousand times to add a C100mkII to my kit and may still! But either way, I think it comes down to the shooter’s priorities and projects. They’re both great cameras.
I'm going to upgrade from my GH4/5 in the next few months (but keep them). The FS7, the Ursa Mini Pro, the Canon c200, and the EVA1 are all under consideration.
Scott Slotterbeck I’m really interested in getting my hands on an EVA. I’m betting we’ll be seeing & hearing a lot about that camera. I think if it had been an option when the Ursa Mini Pro came out I’d have been looking pretty seriously at that one as well.
Yhanks guys great info. Is there any chance you could do some multi part videos on how to use DaVinci Resolve as the stuff that is out there is not great and I would love to be able to use it.
Thanks Curtis, great video. One issue I have not yet been able to sort out on my Ursa Mini Pro is working to a fixed line level audio input. For those who don’t know, Mic inputs on the Pro allow levels to be adjusted (as you would expect) but for some reason line level inputs (like from an audio mixer) are fixed and cannot be adjusted. This has my sound man pulling his hair out when he sends a tone and cant balance it! Any thoughts on this as I know you work a lot with sound? Cheers, Si
Hi Si, Let me do some experimenting when I have a little time. I'm generally using the inputs as AES digital in where this is not an issue. That's the ideal solution but I understand that some mixers don't have digital output options.
Thanks for this video! Did you shoot this video on two Ursa Minis? I'm curious (not criticizing) why the color was so different between the two. The angled shot seemed to capture the reds better. The 2-shot seemed too cyan, with a hint of green. Very helpful information in this video.
Hi Curtis, Not the first time I am watching this great footage from a camera I think you replaced with the C200 since. I do location sound and I have recently brought a couple Tentacle Sync E (TSE) on a filmset, tried to connect any of them to the URSA Mini Pro G2 (UMP2) TC IN port with a 3.5mm to BNC cable and there was just nothing popping up on the UMP, like nothing. I have eliminated the potential suspects: tried all 3 TSE boxes that I own, tried different output level settings on the TSE (MIC/LINE/AUTO levels). From what I found on the user manual, it should be as easy as plugging it in TC IN (or even SDI IN). There is documented evidence online that some other people ran into the same problem trying to use external TC with no real solution. Just wondering if you personally had (or heard of) any problem using timecode on the UMP and whether you were using Tentacle Sync OEM cables or a different brand. Thank you so much, Charles
Hi Charles, many timecode cables are uni-directional. My experience is that if the cable is wired to feed from the 3.5mm TRS side to the BNC end of the cable, it worked flawlessly for me.
@@curtisjudd Thanks Curtis, very helpful as always. Interesting perspective: I knew that some cables were uni-directional but I thought that 3.5 to BNC cables were bi-directional and that the wiring would work both ways. tentaclesync.com/files/documents/tts_pinout_bnc.pdf . I'll probably just end up buying Tentacle Sync's OEM cable just to eliminate the possibility of a faulty design from this other cable I have been using. Thanks again.
Totally off topic for this review which I thank you both because it was very educational. My question is; do you have an opinion on the DVX200. I'm planning on upgrading and understand the 4.2.2 and unchangeable lense. Just interesting in your opinion. Tks
Haha! Yes, of course! I think for a lot of shooters, 4K is for acquisition but they still usually finish in HD. For my clients, that is often the case. But for TH-cam, I'm happy to upload 4K.
Hi Curtis, thanks for your amazing videos. I have a question. What’s the best video exporting setting for pal 25 fps 576*720? I shooting HD 1080*1920 59.94 fps. Is the target bit rate in premiere some to do with the quality?
Hi Edmond, yes, the target and max bitrates place limits on the quality. It depends on how much action there is in the footage. If it is more of a talking head or interview type of piece where the camera isn't moving, you could go with a fairly low target and max and still get good results. I would experiement starting with 10mbps.
Curtis Judd ، the original footage is very smooth it’s 59.94 fps but when exporting to PAL the problems starts to happen. Thanks for your time and tips, it really helps a lot. I learned a lot from you.
Ah, there's the issue: Converting from 59.94 to 25 will stutter because the conform is not evenly divisible. You want to look into tutorials on how to conform from 59.94 to 25 fps. I'm not familiar with the intricacies or even possibilities of making that clean and smooth. Best wishes!
Hi Allen, I mounted the mics to our foreheads near the hairline using Rycote Stickies and then pull the hats over the mics. My favorite place to hide lavs because it makes them into tiny, self booming mics. Sounds better than mounting on the chest in most cases.
That was the only way I could figure looking at the video and hearing what I heard. I'll remember that. But then of course there are those hats on your heads... :)
hi, wondering are you still using the ursa or have you upgraded? i m looking on to buying a 12k but read few bad things about quality and service where they have to change your whole camera. sounds scary especially when the warrenty finishes. i heard also that hdmi ports are frying on canon cinema cameras so not sure what to do haha
No, the Ursa was a bit too much for my work. I had it for a couple of years and then sold it. I use mostly a Canon C70 today. I haven't had any issues with my copy or the 5 that we use at work in terms of HDMI ports and we use the ports all the time.
I've given you some homework Curtis, if you have a moment I would like to hear what you think of the Olympus LS-P2 .. I love it .. has a screw socket built in , ... over to you !
Hi S Who, I don't have the budget to buy another audio recorder after buying this camera. ;-) But I've heard good things about using the Olympus voice recorders as an affordable solution for better sound. Can be used in lieu of wireless with a lavalier microphone which is something I've done with my Zoom H1 on occasion. Cool little devices!
Considering how Blackmagic focused on features and ergonomics going from the Mini to the Pro, would simple ergonomic and feature changes you discussed be enough for you to want to upgrade from your current setup assuming all specs stay the same. Usually, people don't make the switch unless there are sensor or software specs that justify the cost of switching, but since Blackmagic seems to be settling on what they are already offering, what would be the tipping point for you that would tempt you to upgrade?
Fine question Jesse. I don't know since I did NOT buy the Mini but waited for the Pro. Actually, I was waiting for the C100mkIII but when the Pro was announced, decided to go for it. Whether ergonomics alone would be enough to upgrade, I think that depends on how much those features are worth to a particular shooter and how much one could sell their original Mini for. I opted NOT to buy the Mini because it would have been too time consuming to shoot with for my particular type of work. The Pro solved most of those problems for me.
re editing in Resolve/something else... what did you edit in? FCP? If so what do you think of the new 10.4 colour system? Would that mean you wouldn't round trip to resolve? If you even did that? Maybe a video on how you edit, on what, and why? Happy New Year, BTW!
Hi Tim, I still mostly edit with FCPX. For short pieces, I usually grade in Resolve, output to ProRes, then cut in FCPX. That's just for short pieces where I generally just have one take of the main storyline and B-roll. I generally only color the main storyline in Resolve. Then in the final edit, I'll do a final color pass using Color Finale in FCPX. Happy new year!
Might be worth checking 10.4 as the new colour wheels and grading just got much better in FCPX. You can now use LUTS easily in FCPX, too. Might save a lot of faffing around round tripping! ALTHOUGH.... there does seem to be an anomaly with it. See Simon Ubsdell's YT channel for info on an oddity with the new colour correction tools...th-cam.com/video/8lU35F1Q2Q4/w-d-xo.html and then the follow up.
The more I look at cinema rigs, from the camera to the lenses to the rigging and to the audio, not to mention the batteries, data storage (and processing), and lights, the more the camera seems like just a part of a modular system, i.e., if you can start out with a good plan. Otherwise, you're constantly changing stuff you should hopefully only have to buy once, mistakes or evolution aside. And considering how fast technology is changing, it seems that if you can get five to eight years from the camera, you're ahead of the game. Hence, isn't the cost of the camera more a matter of amortization than "how much" in isolation, especially considering how much extra work one camera may cause over another? Also, I don't think you've ever done a video on lenses. It would be interesting to hear your philosophy on the question of whether it's wiser to spend more on the camera or the lenses.
Agree on all fronts. And looking at the amount I earn from my jobs, a $6000 camera body was about the sweet spot to ensure I actually make some money rather than just pay for gear. I'd like to say that lenses and audio gear and lighting is a much better place to invest, with the camera falling to priority just below these. The truth is that I've actually done that on the lighting and audio gear front, but I haven't spend as much on lenses (still shooting with a full complement of very old, manual aperture Nikon lenses and one EF mount Sigma photo zoom). That's why you haven't seen any Curtis Judd lens reviews. :) My experience is that it'll be tough to get 8 years from a camera. Even my 2.5 year old Panasonic needed a repair that involved sending it to Texas for 8 weeks. From my point of view, you can expect the most service years from the following in this order. Things closer to the top are probably better investments in terms of years of service vs price paid (assuming you buy pro and not consumer grade): 1) microphones 2) lenses (assuming mounts don't change or can be adapted) 2.5) audio recorders 2.6) lighting 3) Wireless audio gear 4) cameras - these break earlier than the others and technology is moving a lot faster here than with the others
Never forget that if you buy your equipment for business use, the tax deduction effectively means that the government is paying about one-third of the cost.
Hi Kenneth, we each wore a lavalier microphone under our hats at the top of the forehead. Mine was a Voice Technologies VT500, Cary's was a Sanken COS-11D. Both were transmitted wirelessly with Sennheiser G3 systems to a Sound Devices 633. Links below for details. Thanks for asking! Voice Technologies VT500 Lavalier: bhpho.to/2zyUfAo Sanken COS-11D Lavalier: bhpho.to/2Biex11 Sennheiser G3 Wireless kit: bhpho.to/2Bif3w2 Sound Devices 633 Recorder/Mixer: bit.ly/2tEHGRa
I am obviously new to Raw recording. So let me ask, Is it possible to shoot in Raw at a lower resolution, say HD 1080, on either the UMP or Canon C200 in order to minimize file size for projects that you want the grading capabilities of Raw but may not need 4K? Is this possible? Would this be a silly waste or would it be a proper idea?
Thanks. You are greatly helping me understand the capabilities of the cameras I am considering. Though I started as a film shooter and still own my 16mm Aaton, I've been shooting mostly Canon DSLR lately and am trying to figure which camera might best allow me to expand my potential market. I'd like to be able to move from Facebook/web vids to Corporate, Commercials, Music Vids etc. Trying to avoid ending up with another paperweight like my Aaton. I guess every piece of gear becomes obsolete sooner or later.
Yes, cameras are a horrible investment that have to be replaced about every 3 years nowadays. You might consider renting per job unless you do a large volume of jobs.
Great video as usual! Love how the both of you are wearing northface hats like it’s totally normal. Great subtle product placement. .... I am just joking. Great content!
Wow- that response was fast! I am watching your other video with your discussion of the C200 proxy workflow. I am REALLY torn between these two cameras...
First let me say that I am by no means unhappy with the Ursa Mini Pro like every camera, it has its weaknesses. First let me outline those and then explain why the C200 might have been a better option for my particular circumstances. Weaknesses: - While it's name is "Mini", the UMP is anything but mini once it is kitted out. It is not light weight either. - While the UMP has a lower price on the body, once you add a viewfinder, you're in the same price range as the C200. - Not great in low light and only goes to ISO 1600. This is sort of a hot-button topic and I usually light for my shoots so it is not generally an issue for me. But on the rare occasion that I do need a little more ISO, it would be nice to have it and avoid the rare, but somewhat unpredictable noise that results at ISO 1600. - Burns through batteries. I get 4 hours on a 150wH Anton Bauer whereas my friend Jacob gets about the same time on a much, much smaller proprietary Canon battery. - I like the Canon color science better than the UMP color science in most cases. This is highly subjective The C200 is much smaller and quite a bit lighter. I have found over time that I very rarely need raw. In some respects that makes the UMP a better option, but I'm betting that for many of the day-to-day jobs I do, even the low bitrate Canon codec would be enough and the raw light is there for those special shots where I need more latitude and control over the image. The UMP is better suited for shoulder shooting but I have also found that I rarely ever need to do that for my work. Having a smaller camera I could hold in my hands would work just as well or even better. I'm not trying to suggest that one of these cameras is better than the other because I don't think that's the case, it is more a matter of finding which fits your projects and workflow better than the other, which factors are highest priority for you, etc. I hope that gives some context... For the record, in talking with Cary, I'm pretty sure he would still choose the UMP for his work shooting music videos and in the context of his post workflow.
Hi Simon, I did consider RED for a short time, but was too much for my budget. There is a link to a review of the audio inputs I did in the upper right corner of the video. Since then I have also used the AES feature of the inputs which is an amazing feature if you've got a mixer with AES digital output. I am able to get Sound Devices sound quality directly into the UMP without any syncing in post!
I can’t for the life of me remember if we added any lights. That’s the audio room at the Wormhole and it has two east facing 4’x6’ frosted windows. I get a few hours in the late morning/early afternoon that make for great light conditions. Curtis, did we end up using any extra lights?
Hi Zilvinas, I haven't flown my Ursa Mini Pro yet but I can say with confidence that it requires one of the larger 2-handle gimbals. More to come once I figure it out.
I just found this ProAim Jib, which should probably fit the Ursa Mini Pro: www.proaim.com/proaim-14ft-video-dslr-camera-jib-stand-with-jr-pan-tilt-head.html
Hi Would you recommend buying or would buy an ursa mini pro 4.6k if you need one now over all others including c200? I am also looking into good used Blackmagic production camera 4k until BMPCC 4K comes out. Of course BM cannot compare with C200 or others for auto focus and low light but for everything else ursa mini pro looks great. I have seen people shoot weddings and other events and features regularly very successfully with ursa mini pro. For its price, features, ergonomics and video quality ursa mini pro seems great. I returned my GH5S due to limitation of codecs and autofocus issues at its price point. Kindly advice. Cheers.
Hi Amit, I could go either way. Great results can be produced by either of these cameras. May as well include Sony FS5 as well (especially with the mark II version's new color science).
Curtis Judd Hello and thanks very much for your kind and quick reply. I have watched many comparison videos between UMP and c200 and read on forums and now fs5 ii is coming up as well as you mentioned. I really like the UMP mainly due to its special film like look and codecs and ssd recording etc. I'll be using either of these cameras for events as well as for feature films and music videos and I have also preordered the upcoming BMPCC 4K. I believe c200 yet don't have 10 bit 422 internally but I like it's build quality and size mainly it's low light and autofocusing capabilities. For price, features etc I still think UMP might be better but then I need your advice as you are a pro on this topic with lots of experience. Out of these 3 and others, for feature films and events which one would you buy and why? Thanks again very much for your time. Regards
Hi Amit, for shooting events, I would prefer the C200 or FS5mkII. The Ursa Mini Pro isn't very "mini" once it is rigged out. The beauty of the C200 and FS5 is that you can operate them handheld with a very minimal build out. Then of course they can also be used for narrative film. That being said, I don't do a lot of event, on-the-shoulder work so the UMP fits nicely. I do mostly educational and corporate work so I've almost always got the camera on sticks. Love the codecs and recording to SSD. The option to shoot RAW is, of course, quite useful though not something I do all the time. So for me, the decision would come down to what one shoots most often. If events, I'd probably want to rent a C200 or FS5 just to see how that works. On the other hand, if you like to combine your workouts with shooting events, the UMP could be a great choice. ;-)
Curtis Judd Thanks very much Curtis I really like the UMP but people advice against it for events mainly due to its low light and autofocusing issues other than that it's definitely a great cinema camcorder with great codecs and ssd recording. Does it really suffer in low light? Sorry but one last advice if you can, would you consider a good used Blackmagic production camera 4k for now for some events and music as well as narrative films instead of buying expensive UMP or c200 etc? Would it be a decent choice? Thanks again Curtis. Regards.
I don't have first hand experience with the 4K production camera so I'm not sure. As far as low light is concerned, I usually light in my work so it isn't an issue for me. But if your only option was to work with whatever light was already there, then yes, I would expect to run into some pretty noisy results. A Panasonic GH5s is worth considering for event work. Definitely less expensive on its own, but can be outfitted with an ATOMOS recorder to get the ProRes codecs and it does internal 4:2:2 10-bit. The only thing you'd give up is raw and the larger super35 sensor size.
Sorry about the hats. I did not intend for them to be as big a distraction as they are to many viewers. I was cold and they hid our lavalier microphones but also managed to divert many viewers attention from the topic of the Ursa Mini Pro. Lesson learned.
Curtis Judd You guys look like cool hip twins in those hats. Not distracting at all. Great review!
Thanks!
The hats were not a problem, people wear hats.
That's what I thought when we were setting up for the shoot. But evidently a bunch of viewers disagree. :-/
The hats are fine. The only tiny problem I have is with the orange things you have hung on the back wall. They are red on the close ups ! You can't talk about a camera designed for color grading and don't do a little of it yourself :p
LOL I totally thought you cloned yourself at first as a joke
No artificial cloning involved, just regular old genetics. Wait until we do an episode with all three Judd brothers!
ha haaaaaaa, me too. Was figting with his clone
I was so glad the voices and shaving habits are different.
Let's see, Curtis, Cary, another 'C' name?
No way man, I’m the short-fat-funny Judd brother! You can’t tell though cause we’re sitting down.
-CJ3
Great video Curtis. I've also had a great experience with Blackmagic Design support and I love all of their cameras.
Thanks Tom, good to hear from you! Hope you have a happy new year!
Tom! I’m a little star struck I get to interact with you sir. I think after late night texts to my big brother, your videos are one of my favorite sources of info/education. Looking forward to talking & hope to see you at NAB this year.
yeah but the stocking hats... whats up w that? Lose the hats.
Always good to see brothers coming together. Happy New Year
👍 Happy New Year to you!
Best reviews on TH-cam hands down.
Thanks Shawn!
Been using this camera for my work at a studio for the past 3 months. absolutely love it. would love to own my own.
Thanks for your input Gareth. It's been a great camera for us as well.
Nice to see you both doing a video together. Identical twins. Both with great personalities. Loved the information in this video. Thanks
Thanks!
You're welcome
Great video. And yes I think it always Australian summer with them.
Haha! Thanks Alex. Good to hear from you and I hope you have a happy new year!
Hey guys, I've been overly enjoying this camera for a few months now. Great video, well said. I would like to comment on the "low light" matter. An other guy said in his video "There is a difference between "low light" and "no light."" I tried the Ursa mini pro at night outside with only the street lamps or in the park with the solar lamps - no issues with this camera. In the park i even had one ND filter up by mistake, forgot to take it off. The noise you might get is very well cleaned with Resolve. I recommend this camera to anyone who is contemplating over it. Forget Sony FS7, RED Raven or whatever... Upwards of this the next stop maybe is an Amira and that is many times the price. :)
Thanks vesocsm.
Great job Curtis, I love mine and had pretty good success with BM customer service as my touch screen had to been replaced. One thing about the UMP that people don't realize is that in Raw the data rate actually low compared to RED since it is loseless and(4:1or 3:1) and the media is so much cheaper compared to RED mags if you were to shoot even 4:1 on red the data rate at 5k is around 895mps. I get haters all the time when I compare the epic 5k to Ursa. But the skin tones are so much better on the Ursa. Also for single operators who don't have the budget for a 1st AC the Ursa mini pro is by far the best out there. Thanks Curtis
Hey Jared, thanks. Good points we didn't even think to cover!
Ok I seriously watched this two+ minutes thinking this was the most awesome side-by-side clone job with voice changing.
:)
Mine gets here tomorrow. Watching again just to review :)
Awesome! I hope you love it!
Thanks for the thoughts! This one is definitely on my radar for eventual upgrade. For now, two G7s fits my budget better.
Thanks! Yes, the G7s are hard to beat for the price!
Nice to see your thoughts after 6 months on this camera. Happy New Year.
Thanks BFM and happy new year to you!
Useful and interesting session. Good to hear about the challenges in moving to real cinema quality production. Thanks to both of you for taking the time to put it together.
Thanks!
Way better than TH-camrs reviewing products used to review products on TH-cam
Thanks.
If you have the dongle version of resolve contact BMD and they will give you a serial number so that you can get rid of your dongle. Great review guys.
Thanks Mike - I will! Would love to ditch that dongle!
This is fantastic information and a testament to their customer service. Thank you!
What these guys have done is nothing short of amazing. With R14 I was finally able to dump Premiere. It's just crazy what they give away for free!
Another review that achieves your high standard, this one is particularly gratifying because it agrees with my impressions as a three week UMP owner. Yes, confirmation feels good.
The color rendering is to die for, especially with good glass.
I love this camera, but I have one "con" to add: the placement of the physical volume controls. In ENG situations having the camera is on my shoulder (9kg with a Fujinon zoom), I have a hard time making recording volume adjustments. Already I have had two situation outdoors with street interviews of people who turned out to be loud speakers. Loud speaking is good for interviews in noisy places, but in their cases I am just lucky they did not clip.
One more small quibble: Why would I need a high frame rate key next to two function keys? It would be much better to have the programmable function key on the camera body.
Thanks Owen, good to get your insights on the UMP as well!
Thanks guys, love your work :) picking mine up next week, can't wait.
Thanks Michael. I hope you enjoy the new camera!
Always freaky to see the both of you together in the same space at the same time...
Sorry, didn't mean to freaky you out! :)
Totally agree with everything. I love my UMP! Happy New Year Curtis!
👍
Nice seeing your brother Curtis. Wish you the best ❤️
Thanks Michael. Happy new year!
Great info on the Ursa Mini. As always great job Curtis.
Thanks Rudy!
The freefly movi pro will handle the ursa mini pro. I recently purchased one myself however it is pia to balance. Of course I'm running a misfit atom mattebox with 4x5.65 glass filters, zeiss cp2 lenses, wireless follow focus, carbon fiber rods, both side and upper cheese plates, dual external ssd's with the required cfast breakout cables as well as xlr to tap for power and xlr to dc and sdi for monitor. It takes a seriously long time to configure the balance but when done works pretty great. It is heavy tho. Just picked up a ready rig gs which is a spine savior. It's definitely not a rig set up for the timid or budget baller but filming gimbal shots with the ursa mini pro is pretty awesome.
Great info, thanks Aaron! Looks like the Movi has come way down in price since I last looked. Bonus!
Curtis you make some of the best videos out there! Keep up the good work
Thanks Victor, will do!
Hi Curtis and Cary. Thanks. It was the 'Production' focus - particularly the need for interior lighting set ups - along with the size/weight that took this off my candidate list. Otherwise it was VERY attractive and you've covered all the considerations it took me many months to analyse very well! At the price it is exceptionally good value - for the right sort of work. Bob.
Thanks Bob. And yes, we agree - if high ISO shooting is something one will do often, this isn't the right camera. Best wishes and Happy New Year!
This is a great point that maybe we should’ve gone more in depth on. I was fortunate that Curtis upgraded from his GH4 to a GH5 and sold me his GH4 at a deep “family discount”.
If I were able to only have one camera (I also have a Nikon D750), there’s a high probability it wouldn’t be the UMP. I’m learning a lot about lighting (by the grace of Curtis) because of it though.
"Im usually in there trolling his comments and fighting anyone that puts him down" - That ambushed me in the feels.
LOL
david Unoi I appreciate it. I find myself fighting my brotherly instincts at times 😆
I really enjoyed this, even though I will never be in the market for a "real" video camera, I understand now a lot better why they exist and why real videographers use them whenever possible. Great job, once again.
Thanks Joe!
This was the most helpful review I found. Thanks, guys!
Thanks Reggie!
Good recap.
Thanks Dave. Happy new year!
Perfect timing on this one for me, Curtis... current BMCC 2.5k and BMPCC shooter, planning on the UMP upgrade shortly... been fighting off pals who are recommending the Canon C200... while I can’t say I dislike the color science & DR on the c200, something about that UMP image, like your brother stated... also, like you mentioned, that workflow with the Cinema Raw Light, meh. I chose the BMCC because the 2.5k spoke to me; it had an image that when shot/graded properly, I did not see in other cameras in that range... also, it reminds me (when sets/shots are lit properly) about everything I love about & think about when I hear the term ‘cinema.’ Nothing clinical, plenty of range when shooting raw. Looking fwd to using the Nikon glass & SSD’s with the UMP after the recent additions! Thanks for a great video and the stories from customer service as well.
Thanks! Best wishes with the UMP and keep making awesome stuff!
Sludgetail you’re a man after my own heart. I was camera poor when I first got my UMP, but had a lot of Nikon glass I’ve been adapting. I’m not sure if it’s my ignorance, but I really like the ump in combination with the older Nikon glass. I could do w/o the breathing while focusing, but it looks really good to my eyes. The closeup on Curtis is my UMP+an old Nikon 50mm 1:2.0
Are you selling your BMCC? I'm looking for an MFT mount!
hey brother you're in the market for the right camera, I actually am *not selling mine, in fact, I bought another MFT because I'm seriously in love with the image and everything you're able to do in post when shooting raw. the good news is, they've got another used MFT -- mine came in the box, with resolve, great condition and at a crazy price. shoot me an email via contact on elbyseafilms.com and i'll get you linked up so you can check the specs on the other used one they have :)
Great overview. One area that surprised me you didn't touch on was the internal audio, and quite a bit of noise in the pre-amps.
Thanks! I added a link to a separate piece where I evaluated the microphone inputs. The analogue preamps are noisy but the fact that the inputs also support AES digital in is very useful. I can use my Sound Devices 633 to do the heavy lift and then send a digital AES signal to the Ursa Mini Pro to record with picture. Very nice.
Cary? What a pleasant surprise.
👍
I'm on my second viewfinder and my second lcd screen with my Ursa Mini Pro. Obviously there is a quality control issue with these cameras. Image quality is superb. I had the same screen issue with mine, and they said they replaced the lcd. I haven't had the problem since. My experience with customer service was not so great this last time (the lcd screen). I was without a camera for two weeks. I asked for a loaner while they were fixing mine and they said no. It also cost me $100 in shipping with the insurance. Not happy about that at all.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Sounds like BMD definitely has some work to do on reliability!
I only wish they made an E-mount version. And gave us the Global Shutter option they initially promised too.
Good points!
I am also experiencing random LCD freezes since the last two updates. I have 2 UMPro's, one sometimes freezes completely and a power down and letting it cool is the only fix. Not funny on set. Will RMA, but still love the cam.
Vj One I feel your pain. My next big acquisition will likely be a second UMP body. Primarily for shooting two angles, but also as insurance while the bugs are worked out.
Definitely not funny on set. Hopefully Blackmagic is able to up their game in the reliability realm soon.
This kind of freeks me out . I have a video Productions company (just started) . We do live music videos and do takes also. But if a camera started (stopping) from over heating it would ruin the shoot.
What a fantastic review. Thanks
Thanks!
Some feedback: This video is great, and I’m wondering if there’s anyway you could do an informal BTS of this style video. It would be invaluable to me to see how you setup your lights, audio, camera angles, focal lengths, b-roll, etc since I’m getting into this style of filmmaking. I realize that would be a lot of work on your end, but perhaps it would be beneficial to you since you’d get two quality TH-cam videos out of essentially just one shoot. Either way, I’ve been subscribed for a long time and benefited a ton from your content, so thank you. Best of luck in 2018!
Thanks Alex, that's a fine idea. Will add it to the list!
I think we were just using window light. There’re two 4’x6’ frosted windows in that room that face east so it makes some pretty nice light in the morning. I can’t remember if we used any supplemental lighting. Curtis?
Nope, just window light in this case.
For those who don't know. Moiré patterns are the extra lines and patterns that appear when you have two similar, but slightly different patterns laid on top of each other. if you put the word moiré patterns into TH-cam you'll get a video from Tom Scott that explains it a lot better
Thanks John.
I bought an Ursa Mini Pro last December and have come across a strange sensor issue. I first noticed strange vertical lines in my mid day skies on some shots. Contacted BMD, they asked me to shoot a properly exposed clip at 4.6k Uncompressed raw to see if its a sensor issue or just compression artifacts. And when they received the clips they agreed something was wrong and asked me to ship it back. after a week of them trying to fix it they told me they couldn't fix it so they sent me a new one. Second one arrived I tested it, same issue. I went trough the process again and they noticed that indeed there was some artifacts. They guided me through a process of doing a thorough sensor calibration, warming up the camera for about an hour with the bodycap on and running a sensor calibration. It helped but the lines were still there and worst in prores and a strange band of light magenta on the bottom of the image. They then agreed to take it in for inspection and I shipped it to them. After another week they said they improved the image and they shipped it back to me. I got it back and the vetical lines were worse. After another week of going through the same process they sent a strange generic response of how the camera is performing within expectation and that FPN is normal when pushing dark images. Funny thing is that every frame they got from me was of bright day light sky and never anything dark. I asked them what dark images they were talking about and asked for them to help me fix the issue or find a solution because I had lost an important client because of this issue and I had just bought the camera new 5 months ago. As of now I have been dealing with this for over 4 months and Blackmagic Design is now just ignoring the problem and just giving me the run around. After begging, literally by email, they agreed to replace the camera once again and i haev a feeling that if the new camera has the same issue they are most certainly going to just say that its working as intended instead of just admitting to this as a sensor issue, like the first Production 4k camera fiasco about FPN that was denied and ignored until enough people voiced their frustration and they finally admitted that it is in fact the sensor and not user error.
here is a small sample of the first Ursa mini Pro I had.
its simple.
Shoot outside, blue sky, native Iso( recommended by BMD), expose a little to the right( recommended by BMD), apply BMD 4.6k 709 Lut( recommended by BMD), and adjust color and contrast to your liking and 8 out of 10 chances are that you'll see vertical FPN in your sky and acording to BMD its within spec.
th-cam.com/video/gYngDGUsdgg/w-d-xo.html
Second Ursa Mini Pro( i have a ton of examples of the second one, this was a quick one I did for the UMP group in Facebook)
th-cam.com/video/O3n2FgxX5EI/w-d-xo.html
In conclusion with an Ursa Mini Pro/4.6k: Be cautious with your darks, be cautious with your mid-to-highs , expose to the right always, and hope you don't have a defective sensor/have it within "spec"
Thanks for the info Michael. Sounds like a rough go. I hope the third one works out.
Question: If you get the big LCD "studio monitor" (or whatever they call that gizmo), can that do everything the "eyepiece viewer" accessory supports? Also, does one or both of them let you view the image magnified 4x or more so you can absolutely, positively get perfect focus?
Yes, I’m not sure whether it is exactly 4x but you can definitely zoom for critical focus.
I'm making many shorts and a full length feature I am almost done with with the Ursa Mini Pro! I love it and I am new to cinema cameras! I actually sold Cary his camera haha.
Hey Kody, good to hear from you! Good luck on your feature!
Awesome video Curtis
Thanks Alex.
Hey Curtis fantastic overview! But tell me how you got those Anton Bauer G90 batteries to charge, I recently bought them and none of my chargers can change them. Anton Bauer sold me a firmware chip assuring me that's all I needed for my twin charger and nothing. Do I need the newer Anton Bauer performance charger or something?
Hi dsa, I use the Performance dual charger: bhpho.to/2C85910
Oh lawwd, $800 more. I knew it but thought I could avoid that. Thank you so much for confirming that, now I know what I have to do and won't cut corners.
On the bright side, it is a very nice charger - with the touch screen you see its memory, charge cycles, and lots of other info that is useful. Best wishes!
Wow that’s great thanks so much. Can’t wait!!’
👍
One of the better "reviews" of the UMP I have enjoyed so far. Did I understand from this that you can record raw on the SSD and simultaneously record proxy files on the SD cards? other quality Pro Res on the SD?
Hi John, thanks. No, the UMP is not capable presently of recording separate proxy files at the same time it records raw or ProRes, unfortunately. This is not a good camera for proxy workflow unless you don't mind making the proxies from raw or ProRes in post before the edit.
Hey, please, how make configuration from ursa mini pro camera, i need recorder in SSD. please
Hi Joseph, I assume you are asking about the SSD recorder add on and where to find it? If so, B&H has it here: bhpho.to/2Cs5eNP
If you are asking how to configure the SSD recorder, it is a matter of first attaching it to the Ursa Mini Pro (the screws are torx, not allen/hex). Then you connect the two cameras. Then on the camera's screen, you select the SSD recorder as the card to record to. Best wishes!
Thanks for the review, that was a lot of great info. One hat would have been no problem, your brother was pulling it off, but i get it that your sound wouldnt have been as good , but think the lesson learned for filmmakers is about production design and is it helping to tell your story or distracting
Thanks for the feedback. I guess we cannot just do a casual conversation. Our audience has very high expectations for us. 😀
Great summary! I was shooting on the ursa mini this week and have been blown away by how sharp the images are (especially compared to a dslr). Is this because for HD the camera does a full sensor read out and then down samples? Do any dslrs do this (e.g. The upcoming z6)? The images really are so much more detailed (in colour too, of course!), but I generally hugely prefer the nimbleness of a dslr...
Good questions. I believe that the Ursa Mini (and pro) goes into a windowed mode when shooting HD meaning it does not use the entire sensor but does a full readout of a portion of the sensor. Many of the older DSLRs do funky line skipping which can definitely result in moire issues and potentially some softness as well. The GH series from Panasonic and many of the Sony alpha cameras read out the entire sensor.
@@curtisjudd very useful to know! The detail you get is really incredible - looks like a whole other resolution! I'm guessing it's too early to say whether the nikon Z series do this though? I have nikon glass and am resisting a switch!
I though it was interesting when you described colour adjustment at the end of the vid- Personally I'm not a fan of LUTs, and have no problem working with "milky" looking log footage. I tend to use (read "always" use) a colour chart when slating, and shoot in S-log (or even the Technicolor Log if shooting with a DSLR); then the first thing I do in Resolve is correct with the chart to get what I call "Really-real-reality". I find it very fast, and the results are stunning, every single time. After that I'm doing colour-correction to either correct/balance the look, or to adjust the mood of the piece. I've yet to hear about anyone using this kind of workflow, but I seem to get amazing results with it. Did I mention it's fast? ;) Any thoughts?
Hi Ross, I only use the LUT to manage the color transforms. I still do all the grading to optimize the lift, gamma, and gain, etc. Using a color chart is another way to do it that is completely legitimate though doesn't necessarily take into account all of the color science and non-linear transforms of the camera being used. That said, I do it sometimes as well and it can be a nice complement to using the stock LUT to manage the color transforms: th-cam.com/video/xJjY3Djj0Wg/w-d-xo.html
Ross Goodfellow “really-real-reality” sounds like a term I would use. I love it!
I love the Lavalier strategy 😉.
👍 No fuss, no muss.
Nice review! Thank you!.
Thanks Remus.
Hello there, loved your impressions. I'm kind of new to cinematography and I was wondering if you could answer a question. I understand that with this camera a lot of the work is done post production, at least to get it to a cinematic look.
But when you say its not that great for low light, do you mean it would be a bad camera for lets say a horror/vampire/night movie or are you saying that as long as you step it up on the lighting department and do your due diligence, you'll be alright?
Thanks again.
My take is that if you light, this camera does great, even for low-key work like in a horror movie. When most people talk about "low light performance," they often talking about situations where they just use existing light in a place where there isn't much light at all. You can still get a very dark look if you light properly.
I'm looking into upgrading to a new camera from my Nikon D610. Would love the Ursa Mini Pro but my budget is only $4000. I was looking at the Nikon D850 or Panasonic GH5 or would you save up for the Ursa mini pro?. Can you give me any suggestions on stepping up to a 4k camera to shoot a feature film. I have a set of Nikon AIS lenses (28mm, 50mm, 85mm, 105mm). I respect your opinion on which route would you take if you was in my shoes?
Hi Staylo, That's a tough call. You've identified 3 very different cameras with different sensor sizes. I'd probably go for the GH5 and that's coming from an owner of the D750, Ursa Mini Pro, and GH5. I'd scratch the UMP due to cost ($6000 is the base cost and you'll still need batteries, media, adapter, possibly shoulder rig, cinema/eng tripod quick release, etc.) I'd scratch the D850 from an ergonomics point of view and use the D610 for shots where I want the full-frame sensor look (i.e., "beauty and hero shots"). The GH5 with an adapter for those AiS lenses can produce some very nice pictures. Best wishes!
Curtis Judd Thank you for replying. I want to commend you. I feel this is what's its all about. Helping others. Continue with the things you do. I have learned a lot from you and I appreciate it.
Thanks Staylo! Will do!
So in love with the image it produces. Wish I had the money to buy one! *cries in a corner
Don't cry. Get out and earn some money shooting on what you have until you can justify it. That's what we did. :)
Hi! Thanks for the awesome review/talk. I own the UMP 4.k and the pro. You mentioned the “LUT that ships with it” and how it’s something that needs to be utilized. Would you mind telling me where that is located? Thanks!!
Hi Toby, the LUT is included with DaVinci Resolve. I use the Blackmagic Ursa Mini 4.6k V3 LUT. Best wishes!
Hi Curtis. Excellent insights! I debated between this camera and the C100 mkII after the price drop. I've heard some concerns about the Ursa Mini Pro outside of controlled conditions and I ultimately went with the Canon for its versatility. But it sounds like the Ursa produces some wonderful images.
With that being the case, what do you personally prefer: a camera that can do a little bit of everything like the C100 or a camera like this that can produce some wonderful cinematic images?
Thanks!
Hi David, thanks! I prefer a camera that efficiently and elegantly works in the type of shooting the owner does. If one needs autofocus as a priority, the Canons will undoubtedly be a better choice. For me, working with ProRes is central to my corporate video workflow. The AES digital inputs for sound and timecode inputs also fit my audio priorities so they were factors too. I have been tempted a thousand times to add a C100mkII to my kit and may still! But either way, I think it comes down to the shooter’s priorities and projects. They’re both great cameras.
I stuck with the Sony FS7 after careful considerations. For me its been a wise choice.
The Ursa Mini pro is a good camera though 👍
Chris Bishop FS7 is an awesome camera! It was on my shortlist when I was considering the Ursa. In a perfect world I’d own both 🙃
Sony's FS line seems really good to me as well. 👍
I'm going to upgrade from my GH4/5 in the next few months (but keep them). The FS7, the Ursa Mini Pro, the Canon c200, and the EVA1 are all under consideration.
Scott Slotterbeck I’m really interested in getting my hands on an EVA. I’m betting we’ll be seeing & hearing a lot about that camera. I think if it had been an option when the Ursa Mini Pro came out I’d have been looking pretty seriously at that one as well.
Thanks for this, really helpful.
👍
Awesome Curtis
Thanks Mychal!
Yhanks guys great info. Is there any chance you could do some multi part videos on how to use DaVinci Resolve as the stuff that is out there is not great and I would love to be able to use it.
I’m working on the Fairlight portion of your request. I’ll leave the edit/color portion to Jacob.
Very usefull and nice to see, a cool combination with that "interview/doku-style". But these skull-caps in that situation...?
Thanks. It was about 9 degrees F that morning and we hid lavalier microphones under the hats. :)
Curtis Judd Ok, so I will forgive you...🤗 And a happy new year from Germany
Thanks Curtis, great video. One issue I have not yet been able to sort out on my Ursa Mini Pro is working to a fixed line level audio input. For those who don’t know, Mic inputs on the Pro allow levels to be adjusted (as you would expect) but for some reason line level inputs (like from an audio mixer) are fixed and cannot be adjusted. This has my sound man pulling his hair out when he sends a tone and cant balance it! Any thoughts on this as I know you work a lot with sound?
Cheers, Si
Hi Si, Let me do some experimenting when I have a little time. I'm generally using the inputs as AES digital in where this is not an issue. That's the ideal solution but I understand that some mixers don't have digital output options.
Thanks for this video! Did you shoot this video on two Ursa Minis? I'm curious (not criticizing) why the color was so different between the two. The angled shot seemed to capture the reds better. The 2-shot seemed too cyan, with a hint of green. Very helpful information in this video.
Hi, Two Ursa Mini Pros and a Panasonic GH5. The two shot is the GH5 which is why the color is so different there.
Very informative :) Thank you!
👍
Great video! Is it possible to record to different formats simultaneously?
No, unless you use an external recorder.
Hi, have you had any moire / aliasing on the ursa mini pro? Thanks!
Yes, it crops up every once in a while.
Hi Curtis,
Not the first time I am watching this great footage from a camera I think you replaced with the C200 since.
I do location sound and I have recently brought a couple Tentacle Sync E (TSE) on a filmset, tried to connect any of them to the URSA Mini Pro G2 (UMP2) TC IN port with a 3.5mm to BNC cable and there was just nothing popping up on the UMP, like nothing.
I have eliminated the potential suspects: tried all 3 TSE boxes that I own, tried different output level settings on the TSE (MIC/LINE/AUTO levels).
From what I found on the user manual, it should be as easy as plugging it in TC IN (or even SDI IN).
There is documented evidence online that some other people ran into the same problem trying to use external TC with no real solution.
Just wondering if you personally had (or heard of) any problem using timecode on the UMP and whether you were using Tentacle Sync OEM cables or a different brand.
Thank you so much,
Charles
Hi Charles, many timecode cables are uni-directional. My experience is that if the cable is wired to feed from the 3.5mm TRS side to the BNC end of the cable, it worked flawlessly for me.
@@curtisjudd Thanks Curtis, very helpful as always. Interesting perspective: I knew that some cables were uni-directional but I thought that 3.5 to BNC cables were bi-directional and that the wiring would work both ways. tentaclesync.com/files/documents/tts_pinout_bnc.pdf . I'll probably just end up buying Tentacle Sync's OEM cable just to eliminate the possibility of a faulty design from this other cable I have been using. Thanks again.
OMG Curtis! Please tell me how you did that transition at 11:37 ? :0
Flow transition (in Final Cut Pro X, Premiere has a similar transition though I don’t remember it’s name)
Totally off topic for this review which I thank you both because it was very educational. My question is; do you have an opinion on the DVX200. I'm planning on upgrading and understand the 4.2.2 and unchangeable lense. Just interesting in your opinion. Tks
I haven't shot with the DVX200 but everything I've heard about it is good (for the right situations). Seems a lot like a GH4 with better ergonomics.
YAY!! Someone uploaded in 4K, LOL! What's with all the reviews of 4K cameras uploaded to YT in HD? Sheesh
Haha! Yes, of course! I think for a lot of shooters, 4K is for acquisition but they still usually finish in HD. For my clients, that is often the case. But for TH-cam, I'm happy to upload 4K.
Hi Curtis, thanks for your amazing videos. I have a question. What’s the best video exporting setting for pal 25 fps 576*720? I shooting HD 1080*1920 59.94 fps. Is the target bit rate in premiere some to do with the quality?
Hi Edmond, yes, the target and max bitrates place limits on the quality. It depends on how much action there is in the footage. If it is more of a talking head or interview type of piece where the camera isn't moving, you could go with a fairly low target and max and still get good results. I would experiement starting with 10mbps.
Curtis Judd, there is a lot of planing & zooms I’m experiencing stutter jitters specially when panning. Thank you very much.
Ok, you might want to try higher bitrates. But that assumes that the original footage is smooth? Or are there jitters in the originals as well?
Curtis Judd ، the original footage is very smooth it’s 59.94 fps but when exporting to PAL the problems starts to happen. Thanks for your time and tips, it really helps a lot. I learned a lot from you.
Ah, there's the issue: Converting from 59.94 to 25 will stutter because the conform is not evenly divisible. You want to look into tutorials on how to conform from 59.94 to 25 fps. I'm not familiar with the intricacies or even possibilities of making that clean and smooth. Best wishes!
How did you get such good audio on you two, buried lavs? How do you explain the hats, you put the lavs in the hats?
Hi Allen, I mounted the mics to our foreheads near the hairline using Rycote Stickies and then pull the hats over the mics. My favorite place to hide lavs because it makes them into tiny, self booming mics. Sounds better than mounting on the chest in most cases.
That was the only way I could figure looking at the video and hearing what I heard. I'll remember that. But then of course there are those hats on your heads... :)
Yes, but since it was 9 degrees F that morning, they served two purposes. :)
Curtis Judd I will remember that hat/mic method as an excellent way to get good sound outdoors in the cold. Built in wind protection too.
Creative Family!
👍
Good stuff! Thank you!
👍
My problem with BMD has always been finicky hardware and firmware. But great images.
Agreed. That seems to be our experience as well.
your shirt looks great!
Haha! Thanks.
hi, wondering are you still using the ursa or have you upgraded? i m looking on to buying a 12k but read few bad things about quality and service where they have to change your whole camera. sounds scary especially when the warrenty finishes. i heard also that hdmi ports are frying on canon cinema cameras so not sure what to do haha
No, the Ursa was a bit too much for my work. I had it for a couple of years and then sold it. I use mostly a Canon C70 today. I haven't had any issues with my copy or the 5 that we use at work in terms of HDMI ports and we use the ports all the time.
@@curtisjudd thank you.
I've given you some homework Curtis, if you have a moment I would like to hear what you think of the Olympus LS-P2 .. I love it .. has a screw socket built in , ... over to you !
Hi S Who, I don't have the budget to buy another audio recorder after buying this camera. ;-) But I've heard good things about using the Olympus voice recorders as an affordable solution for better sound. Can be used in lieu of wireless with a lavalier microphone which is something I've done with my Zoom H1 on occasion. Cool little devices!
Considering how Blackmagic focused on features and ergonomics going from the Mini to the Pro, would simple ergonomic and feature changes you discussed be enough for you to want to upgrade from your current setup assuming all specs stay the same. Usually, people don't make the switch unless there are sensor or software specs that justify the cost of switching, but since Blackmagic seems to be settling on what they are already offering, what would be the tipping point for you that would tempt you to upgrade?
Fine question Jesse. I don't know since I did NOT buy the Mini but waited for the Pro. Actually, I was waiting for the C100mkIII but when the Pro was announced, decided to go for it.
Whether ergonomics alone would be enough to upgrade, I think that depends on how much those features are worth to a particular shooter and how much one could sell their original Mini for. I opted NOT to buy the Mini because it would have been too time consuming to shoot with for my particular type of work. The Pro solved most of those problems for me.
Colors look incredible on the Ursa Mini Pro. Not so much on the GH5.
Thanks Michael. I agree, the GH5 colors look a little over-baked, even with the saturation dialed back.
My only concern Is there a indoor cap avalible for the cam?
Huh?
re editing in Resolve/something else... what did you edit in? FCP? If so what do you think of the new 10.4 colour system? Would that mean you wouldn't round trip to resolve? If you even did that? Maybe a video on how you edit, on what, and why? Happy New Year, BTW!
Hi Tim, I still mostly edit with FCPX. For short pieces, I usually grade in Resolve, output to ProRes, then cut in FCPX. That's just for short pieces where I generally just have one take of the main storyline and B-roll. I generally only color the main storyline in Resolve. Then in the final edit, I'll do a final color pass using Color Finale in FCPX. Happy new year!
Might be worth checking 10.4 as the new colour wheels and grading just got much better in FCPX. You can now use LUTS easily in FCPX, too. Might save a lot of faffing around round tripping! ALTHOUGH.... there does seem to be an anomaly with it. See Simon Ubsdell's YT channel for info on an oddity with the new colour correction tools...th-cam.com/video/8lU35F1Q2Q4/w-d-xo.html and then the follow up.
Yes, just started using the new color wheels as well. Nicely implemented start in my use so far.
Men WITH hats.
We're hiding microphones with those hats. :)
That's great. Loved the review though.
I figured bad hair days.
That is also true.
I remember you compared the Ursa Mini Pro to the Canon C200, but did you guys consider the C300 Mk II, when you were looking to make your move?
I didn't, not because I don't want a C300 but overall price is a bit higher once you add everything needed to kit things out.
The more I look at cinema rigs, from the camera to the lenses to the rigging and to the audio, not to mention the batteries, data storage (and processing), and lights, the more the camera seems like just a part of a modular system, i.e., if you can start out with a good plan. Otherwise, you're constantly changing stuff you should hopefully only have to buy once, mistakes or evolution aside. And considering how fast technology is changing, it seems that if you can get five to eight years from the camera, you're ahead of the game. Hence, isn't the cost of the camera more a matter of amortization than "how much" in isolation, especially considering how much extra work one camera may cause over another? Also, I don't think you've ever done a video on lenses. It would be interesting to hear your philosophy on the question of whether it's wiser to spend more on the camera or the lenses.
Agree on all fronts. And looking at the amount I earn from my jobs, a $6000 camera body was about the sweet spot to ensure I actually make some money rather than just pay for gear. I'd like to say that lenses and audio gear and lighting is a much better place to invest, with the camera falling to priority just below these. The truth is that I've actually done that on the lighting and audio gear front, but I haven't spend as much on lenses (still shooting with a full complement of very old, manual aperture Nikon lenses and one EF mount Sigma photo zoom). That's why you haven't seen any Curtis Judd lens reviews. :) My experience is that it'll be tough to get 8 years from a camera. Even my 2.5 year old Panasonic needed a repair that involved sending it to Texas for 8 weeks.
From my point of view, you can expect the most service years from the following in this order. Things closer to the top are probably better investments in terms of years of service vs price paid (assuming you buy pro and not consumer grade):
1) microphones
2) lenses (assuming mounts don't change or can be adapted)
2.5) audio recorders
2.6) lighting
3) Wireless audio gear
4) cameras - these break earlier than the others and technology is moving a lot faster here than with the others
Never forget that if you buy your equipment for business use, the tax deduction effectively means that the government is paying about one-third of the cost.
Yes, good point. Still. :) Cary is doing a job in the near future where they'll be renting a C300mkII. I suspect he'll fall in love with it.
very good review
Thanks!
Great sound on that video, what audio gear did you use?
Hi Kenneth, we each wore a lavalier microphone under our hats at the top of the forehead. Mine was a Voice Technologies VT500, Cary's was a Sanken COS-11D. Both were transmitted wirelessly with Sennheiser G3 systems to a Sound Devices 633. Links below for details. Thanks for asking!
Voice Technologies VT500 Lavalier: bhpho.to/2zyUfAo
Sanken COS-11D Lavalier: bhpho.to/2Biex11
Sennheiser G3 Wireless kit: bhpho.to/2Bif3w2
Sound Devices 633 Recorder/Mixer: bit.ly/2tEHGRa
Two hoods working black magic?
And hiding microphones with said hoods. :)
Thank you :)
You're welcome!
just saw the Came-TV prodigy gimbal works for ursa
Thanks for the update Deborah! I'll have to check that out at NAB.
I am obviously new to Raw recording. So let me ask, Is it possible to shoot in Raw at a lower resolution, say HD 1080, on either the UMP or Canon C200 in order to minimize file size for projects that you want the grading capabilities of Raw but may not need 4K? Is this possible? Would this be a silly waste or would it be a proper idea?
Hi John, on the UMP, you can record raw at different resolutions. I am not sure on the C200.
Thanks. You are greatly helping me understand the capabilities of the cameras I am considering. Though I started as a film shooter and still own my 16mm Aaton, I've been shooting mostly Canon DSLR lately and am trying to figure which camera might best allow me to expand my potential market. I'd like to be able to move from Facebook/web vids to Corporate, Commercials, Music Vids etc. Trying to avoid ending up with another paperweight like my Aaton. I guess every piece of gear becomes obsolete sooner or later.
Yes, cameras are a horrible investment that have to be replaced about every 3 years nowadays. You might consider renting per job unless you do a large volume of jobs.
Yes. Purchases are definitely an expense, not an investment.
Great video as usual! Love how the both of you are wearing northface hats like it’s totally normal. Great subtle product placement. .... I am just joking. Great content!
Haha! Thanks Gerd.
Ha anyone else noticed that red color shift between camera angles? Great video though, thanks guys!
Yes, different lenses.
Wow- that response was fast! I am watching your other video with your discussion of the C200 proxy workflow. I am REALLY torn between these two cameras...
If I were buying today, I'd probably go with the Canon C200.
Curtis, You are AWESOME! Thank you so much for your time and input. Could I ask you to tell me why you would lean toward the C200 now?
First let me say that I am by no means unhappy with the Ursa Mini Pro like every camera, it has its weaknesses. First let me outline those and then explain why the C200 might have been a better option for my particular circumstances. Weaknesses:
- While it's name is "Mini", the UMP is anything but mini once it is kitted out. It is not light weight either.
- While the UMP has a lower price on the body, once you add a viewfinder, you're in the same price range as the C200.
- Not great in low light and only goes to ISO 1600. This is sort of a hot-button topic and I usually light for my shoots so it is not generally an issue for me. But on the rare occasion that I do need a little more ISO, it would be nice to have it and avoid the rare, but somewhat unpredictable noise that results at ISO 1600.
- Burns through batteries. I get 4 hours on a 150wH Anton Bauer whereas my friend Jacob gets about the same time on a much, much smaller proprietary Canon battery.
- I like the Canon color science better than the UMP color science in most cases. This is highly subjective
The C200 is much smaller and quite a bit lighter. I have found over time that I very rarely need raw. In some respects that makes the UMP a better option, but I'm betting that for many of the day-to-day jobs I do, even the low bitrate Canon codec would be enough and the raw light is there for those special shots where I need more latitude and control over the image.
The UMP is better suited for shoulder shooting but I have also found that I rarely ever need to do that for my work. Having a smaller camera I could hold in my hands would work just as well or even better.
I'm not trying to suggest that one of these cameras is better than the other because I don't think that's the case, it is more a matter of finding which fits your projects and workflow better than the other, which factors are highest priority for you, etc.
I hope that gives some context...
For the record, in talking with Cary, I'm pretty sure he would still choose the UMP for his work shooting music videos and in the context of his post workflow.
had you considered a red? right in the middle of the alexa / ursa - curious also about your experience recoding audio direct to camera 😊 ☕️🎥🔥
Hi Simon, I did consider RED for a short time, but was too much for my budget. There is a link to a review of the audio inputs I did in the upper right corner of the video. Since then I have also used the AES feature of the inputs which is an amazing feature if you've got a mixer with AES digital output. I am able to get Sound Devices sound quality directly into the UMP without any syncing in post!
Which light setup are you using? Looks sooo nice!
I can’t for the life of me remember if we added any lights. That’s the audio room at the Wormhole and it has two east facing 4’x6’ frosted windows. I get a few hours in the late morning/early afternoon that make for great light conditions.
Curtis, did we end up using any extra lights?
No extra lights - this room was made for filming with those huge frosted windows and amazing east facing windows with indirect light streaming in.
Curtis Judd Awesome!
What kind of crane/jib would you recommend for the Ursa Mini Pro? Thanks!
Hi Zilvinas, I haven't flown my Ursa Mini Pro yet but I can say with confidence that it requires one of the larger 2-handle gimbals. More to come once I figure it out.
I just found this ProAim Jib, which should probably fit the Ursa Mini Pro: www.proaim.com/proaim-14ft-video-dslr-camera-jib-stand-with-jr-pan-tilt-head.html
Looks nice!
Quick point: "Every film you see is graded in Resolve". Not true, the majority of major releases are graded in Baselight.
Thanks for the correction.
no worries, great discussion though.
Very Nice!
👍
That UI freeze when switching from playback to record maybe an SD card issue.
Interesting. I’m actually using CFast and SSD but could be a CFast issue. Hmm..
Hi
Would you recommend buying or would buy an ursa mini pro 4.6k if you need one now over all others including c200?
I am also looking into good used Blackmagic production camera 4k until BMPCC 4K comes out.
Of course BM cannot compare with C200 or others for auto focus and low light but for everything else ursa mini pro looks great.
I have seen people shoot weddings and other events and features regularly very successfully with ursa mini pro.
For its price, features, ergonomics and video quality ursa mini pro seems great.
I returned my GH5S due to limitation of codecs and autofocus issues at its price point.
Kindly advice.
Cheers.
Hi Amit, I could go either way. Great results can be produced by either of these cameras. May as well include Sony FS5 as well (especially with the mark II version's new color science).
Curtis Judd Hello and thanks very much for your kind and quick reply.
I have watched many comparison videos between UMP and c200 and read on forums and now fs5 ii is coming up as well as you mentioned.
I really like the UMP mainly due to its special film like look and codecs and ssd recording etc. I'll be using either of these cameras for events as well as for feature films and music videos and I have also preordered the upcoming BMPCC 4K.
I believe c200 yet don't have 10 bit 422 internally but I like it's build quality and size mainly it's low light and autofocusing capabilities.
For price, features etc I still think UMP might be better but then I need your advice as you are a pro on this topic with lots of experience.
Out of these 3 and others, for feature films and events which one would you buy and why?
Thanks again very much for your time.
Regards
Hi Amit, for shooting events, I would prefer the C200 or FS5mkII. The Ursa Mini Pro isn't very "mini" once it is rigged out. The beauty of the C200 and FS5 is that you can operate them handheld with a very minimal build out. Then of course they can also be used for narrative film.
That being said, I don't do a lot of event, on-the-shoulder work so the UMP fits nicely. I do mostly educational and corporate work so I've almost always got the camera on sticks. Love the codecs and recording to SSD. The option to shoot RAW is, of course, quite useful though not something I do all the time.
So for me, the decision would come down to what one shoots most often. If events, I'd probably want to rent a C200 or FS5 just to see how that works.
On the other hand, if you like to combine your workouts with shooting events, the UMP could be a great choice. ;-)
Curtis Judd
Thanks very much Curtis
I really like the UMP but people advice against it for events mainly due to its low light and autofocusing issues other than that it's definitely a great cinema camcorder with great codecs and ssd recording. Does it really suffer in low light?
Sorry but one last advice if you can, would you consider a good used Blackmagic production camera 4k for now for some events and music as well as narrative films instead of buying expensive UMP or c200 etc?
Would it be a decent choice?
Thanks again Curtis.
Regards.
I don't have first hand experience with the 4K production camera so I'm not sure. As far as low light is concerned, I usually light in my work so it isn't an issue for me. But if your only option was to work with whatever light was already there, then yes, I would expect to run into some pretty noisy results.
A Panasonic GH5s is worth considering for event work. Definitely less expensive on its own, but can be outfitted with an ATOMOS recorder to get the ProRes codecs and it does internal 4:2:2 10-bit. The only thing you'd give up is raw and the larger super35 sensor size.