I know it's not a game, but I think one of the best examples of genre mashing ever is Firefly. At first it sounds really, really weird to combine westerns and science fiction, but then you watch it and you realize how fundamentally similar the two are, and how Firefly uses both to deliver on the same thing: the danger and adventure derived from exploring and living in the vast, uncivilized unknown.
***** Recently I've been listening to a channel called Post Modern Juxebox, and I think one genre we could do more with is noir mixed with stuff. There's a genre of music called Electro Swing, and Transistor showed us a great example of futuristic noir. I think a great game could be a noir detective game in a universe with a combination of sci-i and fantasy. Essentially a fantasy world that went through a steam-punk style industrial revolution, but that was about 50 years ago, so now it's the equivalent of the 1940s, so we have swing and jazz music and a pulpy feel, but with magic and lasers.
A good example of this (in my opinion) is Realm of the Mad God. For those who don't know, it's a blend of MMORPG, arena shooter, and bullet hell (danmaku) shooter. It was also covered in a "Games You Might Not Have Tried" episode, but I forget which one.
I know, this video is heavily outdated in our short-living times, but I love how your ending music themes always match your topics. The authors of that remix combined classical with electronic/8-bit type of music and it fits together perfectly.
Amnesia's only real stealth element was hiding though, and even then your insanity penalizes being in the dark. That kind of combines genres since you stay sane in light but can be spotted easier, and are safer in the dark but will go insane. Damn I love that game and this channel for making me think of games so in depth.
Interesting little tidbit on the bioshock thing. It's a case of leftover material that's now missing all it's context. Originally it was integrated into the universe plot wise as another example of the dehumanizing nature of rapture with the hacking being to placate a human brain running the vending machine that was craving it's adam fix and offered you a discount for shunting a little extra to it from the machines stores. By orphaning that minigame from it's context they inadvertently caused the issue brought up in the video, food for thought eh?
Romeo Ferrari Same here, as for why I'm not entirely sure but I think they might have considered it a step to far towards it's predecessor. After all we do see plenty of people horribly mutated and the big daddy's are sorta cyborgs but this pushed a bit too close to system shock for them.
The Persona series in recent years have combined social simulation, dungeon crawling rpg, horror, mystery, comedy, urban fantasy, psychology, romance, and detective genres under one game perfectly. Which is one of the main reasons why I love those games so much.
I'm actually playing Persona 3 myself. It's so good. I've played it several times before, but never got around to beating it. The mixing of genres works so well with this game and it actually feels more like a "role playing game" than most jrpgs I've played.
A great example of combining genres is The Last of Us. It has stealth to make you feel like you have no choice but to hide. The action portions are done to make you feel trap -this also applies to the running sequences. Puzzles and platforming is there for atmosphere by giving you familiar places like big city and changing them so they feel more foreign and bizarre.
I actually had a rather solid idea of a rhythm based fighter, where if you time your button presses to a hypothetical beat, you do slightly more damage, making it a rhythm based fighter
Mother 3 for the gba does that, where if you tap the button to the enemies battle music, you'll hit more and do combos. Well it's a rhythm based rpg if you could call it that
The point about JRPG combat being more about puzzle-solving than reflexive skill is spot on. Stuff like countering resistances with certain attacks and skills, to rock-paper-scissors classes, to party composition, to telling Chie to block for a turn before Shadow Yukiko launches a fire attack that normally would have knocked her out because of her weakness to fire that is now nullified due to that timely block... JRPGs really are just puzzles at their core. Reflexive controls are just a fancy vehicle.
Aaron KTJ yeah, they nailed that. This is probably the reason why turn based battle systems that include 'timed hits' work so well. (Like super mario rpg or eternal sonata), you still get to puzzle.solve, but once the executing animation starts, you get some reactive action in there too, without interfering with the strategic elements
Crypt of the Necrodancer: I could see how movement, especially backtracking, could be something that is lacking in a traditional 2D dungeon crawler experience, so adding the music and timing almost like DDR is actually a great example of this!
Your videos are helping fulfil my dream, even if it's just little things that you think you're doing, it's a lot more to me and other game developers I'm sure, please keep making videos!
Dillon's Rolling Western was a great genre mashup of an action adventure and tower defense. The exploration phase before the invasion helps with the stressful tedium of back to back tower defense levels while also letting you get familiar with the map. This allows that map to be larger and more complex without feeling unfair. The action battles to stop enemies that bypass your turrets help keep the player active in real-time and play a role which many players like myself find more engaging than the passive godlike position of other tower defense games, idly cliking on certain things when they briefly require your attention. The fact that you play a role allows there to be a simple story with quirky characters which gives the game more personality.
ToxicWolf1132 I would think the thing that combines them is stylish, fluid motion. Maybe you'd pretty much make an action game like Bayonetta but just have a greater focus on cool movement mechanics and have a point system that encourages combining different movements with different attacks.
Catherine I feel is a great example of this. It combines dialogue/decision making in the walking hours of the character while making an interesting puzzle game in the dream sequences on top of adding bosses to the puzzle elements giving more of a fast paced feel I normally dont get with other puzzle games.
Firefall does exactly what you just described. its still in beta, and the actually questing options are limited right now, but the combat is fairly well balanced and incredibly fun, with a high skill ceiling. Its also free to play, without any pay to win type elements, which is amazing for a game of this caliber.
What I want to see (or create if I find a partner with the skill) is a genre blend of long term and real time strategy in a "conquer the world" type game, you manage your cities, recruit troops, use diplomacy, maneuver your armies, have total control over city planning and whatnot (Total War games approach this level of control, if not quite reach it), and then in battle I'd like to see a mechanic where you can take the role of a unit for a time, using your own skill to make what might have been a single sniper into a battle-changing force at a critical moment, but while you're doing it you are leaving strategy unattended, so it adds the extra dimension of skill, but also another whole level of strategy as the player is forced to think "when should I use this, if I do this now how will things fare until I get back? How can I set things up t make the most of this?" And in multiplayer with both generals able to go commando at the expense of temporarily being away from the big picture, even more strategy is introduced, as one commander might be turning the tide of battle in one area at the same time the other player is doing it elsewhere. The sheer amount of strategic possibilities for that mechanic would be amazing. I can't program though and I imagine something like this would be incredibly hard to program even for pros...
I know I'm 3 years late to this, but Rise and Fall: Civilizations at War is pretty close to what you're asking for. Not so much the Grand Strategy stuff, but the RTS with the ability to take control of a hero.
+Lapis Riolazuli As Marcel said, it's a remix of Mario 64 music called Penguin Cap by CHM, but it definitely includes bits of the Bob-omb Battlefield music, along with lots of other music from the game.
Great episode: potent and shprt. For a personal notice: Sanctum saves tower defense's bored rounds by involving and requiring shooting skills in first person. You can level up just towers/guns for a time based on your playstyle, but eventually you'll need both.
Sanctum and Sanctum 2 deliver on this really well. Coffee Stain really outdid themselves with the Sanctum series and it's sad to know that they're only going to be known for Goat Simulator.
After seeing this video, I drew a connection between haphazardly combining genres & a category that many fakemon (fake/fan-made pokemon) fall under. Most people make OUTRAGEOUS combinations of types, that would fall apart in the actual games.
Henry Hatsworth did a remarkable job combining platformer and puzzle, with core elements of both genres actively interacting with each other. But for me its main selling point was that you could pilot a overtly-British MECHA OF RAMPAGING DOOM as your full-meter power. With the transformation being billed as "TEA TIME!"
I remember me and a buddy playing CoD:MW2 for a while. We'd hit level 70, then prestige after some AK47 fun. But then when we hit the top prestige level, we both, without telling the other, googled how to reset all our game stats to start all over again. Good times.
Realm of the Mad God... A roguelike MMORPG open world bullet hell shooter... They did it well! The bullet hell goes well with the roguelike as it makes every fight super intense, while the MMORPG elements like loot, levels and dungeons add a progression for you character to replace the score based rewards of the shooters and help you getting better at the game step by step. Plus, it makes an interesting background for a shooter
I honestly think ratchet end clank has a great mix of genres Originally it was a platformer abd 3rd person shooter then in the second and 3rd games they added a leveling system for health and each individual weapon It works well because you have to switch weapons anyway due to limited ammunition and the skill based game play means no enemy should be too strong for all your weapons even if none are leveled up very much. It all goes towards the main element of the ratchet and clank series having powerful over the top weapons, being s hero and above all blowing $#1t up
Sexual Tyranasaurus I was referencing the back of the second game's case which says kicking @$$ one planet at a time It actually uses those symbols to look like the word so I was trying to mimic that
+Randy Johnson (MetaSceptile) I find R&C2 has weapons that are kinda underpowered compared to the other games of the series, so I can't imagine how hard it would be with unupgraded weapons.
So I'm designing a game with a friend, and we decided combining platformer and point and click adventure would be cool. Seeing this video has got me thinking about that again.
i agree, and think extra credits are the philosophers of games, they made me think about game design as an art, thing i have seen rarely, and as you said, it's an understatement in the videogames industry, considering now games in general seem to be pointing more at money than anything else.
It is definitely one of the best games I have ever played. It revolves all around exploring an unknown world, and includes fps elements (because it can be a very solid way to include modern or futuristic fighting), platforming (because that is an excellent way to explore the world), and puzzleing (because it requires you to to think more while you are exploring the vast world). Also, even to this day, metroid prime is pretty graphically impressive.
I remember playing The Hobbit for GameCube and having to solve puzzles (which really just required good reflexes) to pick the locks on treasure chests. It was frustrating, but fun at the same time.
Heh. The CoD question is an easy one: The main aesthetic CoD delivers on is "Competition", the need to show that you're better than others. Since resetting your level for "prestige" (or whatever they call it, I personally never played CoD) adds a shiny medal to your profile, this reinforces the "showing how awesome you are".
That's kind what I was trying to say. You hide from the enemies in the darkness but being in the darkness consumes your sanity, also you have to sneak by since you can't attack enemies. Although Amnesia is also more of an Adventure Game and a Puzzle Game than it is a Stealth Game.
At the word "complex" at 3:33 you showed a puzzle (twisty puzzle) called Petaminx. That puzzle is indeed complex but NEVER confuse that therm with "complicated"! It is actually EXTREMELY easy to solve, it's just very long and boring because of all the possible combinations and many pieces you have to move. So yes, it is right and that image was just a particular but it was a perfect example :P
Have you looked into Invisible Inc.? It combines the tile turn-based mechanics of x-com with standard stealth mechanics (vision cones, guard patrols, stealth takedowns). Plus it's a stealth rogue-like. When you make a mistake you don't wait to retry, you are instead presented with a new problem.
I agree with your point on the pipe puzzles in Bioshock not matching the aesthetic but I think the puzzles are a good change of pace in the game. I always looked forward to those puzzles in Bioshock because it gave me a break from the shooting but still had the same fast-paced little room for error feel that the rest of the game has. Plus, I think that one of the things that made Bioshock work was that it brought in things like puzzles, extensive world-building, and heavy narrative (through things like the posters and the diaries left behind) that aren't always present in first person shooters, which brings in people that wouldn't usually be interested in a first person shooter. Love this channel guys! Has changed how I think of games. Keep rockin' n' rollin' \m/
I didn't know genre mashing was a thing. I thought I was the only one who liked it. I am a fan of RPGs and TCGs. I was working on a way to mash them. I was developing a table top card game. Recently I was thinking of a way to have a video game based on that. This video gives good advice. I can think og other Extra Credits videos. The idea of mashing genres is to emphasize a common core. I think there is a common core between RPGs and TCGs. Both have huge potential for storytelling and lore. Both have lots of custimization for the player. Both have the power of the player grow over time. Both have combat based more on stratgey as opposed to speed. Maybe there is a way to mix the two while still delivering on a core. I love how rich things get. It is deep in the sense of having vast customization options. I realized that my practice in doing a tabletop game forces me to simplify the math. This has got to be simple enough for players to do in thier head. This is good for video game version as well. It makes things less complex. Having more depth and less complexity is a good thing. There is a whole video about complexity and depth. I am lucky that this video talked about RPGs. That is so relavent for me personally. The anecdote about putting puzzles in an RPG is cool. I would like to do something similar. Instead of puzzles, I would like to uses ideas of RPGs. RPGs tend to have a single resource for attacks. DND has spell slots. Pokemon has PP. WOW has a single mana bar. I thought of having resources come in four flavors. There are four whole groups of magic. Nature is the green magic with shamans and speed. Arcane is the red magic of mages and offense. Occult is the blue magic of warlocks and defense. Holy is the yellow magic of priests and support. The classes are all magicians. Each class has access to one or two types of mana. Then specific mana is used to fuel attacks with specific costs. The best resource system I have seen is in MTG. There is the color pie. It is genious. One of my favorite Extra Credits videos is about the color pie. I use a similar system in my game. I recently realized that there should be some kind of system of spells. One doesnt just pick one of thier attacks. They have a large set of spells tied to the class. However spells have to be prepared before they can be used. One starts out with some prepaired spells. Then each turn they prepare a spell and use a spell. There would be a seperate pool for used spells. They normally can't be used for the rest of the battle. I just thought of this idea. So I dont have the terminology down. I am still sthinking of a video game version of the deck, hand and discard pile. The greater complexity in mana and spells lead to some fun shenanigans. Some spells increase mana. Some allow the player to prepaire extra spells. Some allow used spells to be reused. There are more possibilities. The combat is a bit more convoluted. Coming up with a strategy is like solving a puzzle. That can be a fresh new spin on otherwize stale combat in RPGs.
CJ Skittlez Gears of War on one screen, 3D Land on another. Originally envisioned it for Wii-U and started messing around in Unity based on that, but since hearing the NEW 3DS will support Unity I've started to think it'd work even better there.
One of my favorite instances of Genre Blending has to be the Metroid Prime series, it manages to remove all the elements of traditional FPSs that I LOATHE ENTIRELY and replace them with the good old-fashioned exploration that I have enjoyed in many a platformer. That doesn't mean that this game is entirely immune to my inability to play FPSs well, but I've always enjoyed absurd challenges in games.
Well, you see, when one monster and another monster love each other very much, they go through a development phase. During this development phase, ideas run wild between the monsters, the monsters' owners, the cages, etc. until a product is created. Then, this product that has been made is sent to a third party to test, debate, test more, and pretend to test while actually just playing with the product. Afterwards, the two monsters enter into a business agreement and live happily ever after.
I just played a PC game called Recettear. In the game, you run an item shop in a simulation game, but there are RPG-style dungeons you can go to to get items to sell in your shop. I started thinking of the possibility of this in MMOs. Imagine one where the game is inhabited by real players. Some do the standard adventure thing, but others run the item shops, and others raise and sell crops harvest-moon style, and others could be NPC's and send people on quests and play a type of life-simulation.
The Borderlands series is a great cross between a first-person shooter, and a RPG with randomized loot and 3 distinct skill trees for every class to create a unique gameplay style based on the skills you invest in.
Really, this is applicable to almost any medium, be it video games or music or fiction: Theme and goal are the real arbiters of form and style. A piece of art, interactive or not, should be cohesive regardless of the individual elements involved. Even if something theoretically "goes with" something else, if the part does not fit with the intent, it does not need to go there; likewise, a seemingly left-field addition can resonate with a theme and work regardless.
I think i'll contribute with yet another way to blend genres properly: The story. Think of what parts of what genres would fit into the telling of the story or its plots. Thinking of what overall mood and setting it takes part in is also a good way.
For a while I've been toying around with an idea for a game that's a deconstruction of video games tropes, and to cover as many as possible it would be a 3rd person shooter, hack n' slash, puzzle platformer, adventure game with a heavy emphasis on rpg elements. but according to this doing that well would be somewhere between crazy difficult and impossible
one of the most memorable books i've ever read is ex-heros because it had both zombies and superheros in it, and pulled it off really well! i've never seen both of those together before and i loved how both themes tied into each other, i would explain more but spoilers. just thought the book was a great example of combining genres
I'm not sure if it's the right place and I don't feel like making other new accounts, but I'd like to request a possible topic for an episode. The phenomenon of the slippery slope, whereas when the game gives advantages to the winning player to the point he or she will just keep on winning, while the losing player may as well just give up. TVTropes has an entry on it called Unstable Equilibrium. Thank you very much.
You would never see a system that lets you reset yourself to level one in Mass Effect. *Plays ME3 Multiplayer*, *See's promote button*, *laughs*, *cries*, *dies a little inside* Take notes Bioware!
Shooter + stunt driving + sandbox rpg = GTA. It's fast cars without being strictly a racing game. It's shooting, but not war or monsters. Its RPG, but without being more anime than video game. It's action, but with just a touch of storyline. It's all of the above and none of the above. It cannot be categorized. Instead, similar games are often referred to as "GTA clones", even more than a decade later. It is my eternal favorite because of its perfect blending of genres.
One great Genre-blending series I recall playing is SpellForce... A blend fairly simple to concieve of as it's a mix of a Diabloesque Hack'n'Slash and a Warcraft-y RTS but it works really well. Especially in the first game The Order of Dawn.I strongly suggest playing it because it's really an underappreciated tittle.
Yup, a great title. Actually as a child I came up with an idea of combining a strategy game (I was a huge fan of "The Settlers") and an RPG, and a little while later I found out the dude who invented "The Settlers" was making SpellForce, and I was not disappointed in the least.
i'm really surprised you guys didn't bring up natural selection 2, it's a great example of this, well, actually now that i think about it i'm not all that surprised, natural selection 2 has gotten no where near the publicity it deserves.
I had never heard about that game before, so I took a look at it, yeah, I can't believe they did it, but they successfully (well, as successfully as you can get) merged a Third-person shooter and a Turn-based Strategy game... Wow...
I really liked how Fable 2 combined an Action/Adventure with elements of a city builder sim. You gain experience by killing enemies, but you gain money by real estate. I'd like to see more like that. Fable 3 tried, but they got carried away with decorations. It was too complex to do it yourself, and too simple to auto-fix.
Beat Hazard is pretty fun, though I think the game Symphony combines the two genres better. The way enemies enter into the fight just seems more based on the beats or rhythm of the song itself. Beat Hazard has this element, too, and it's still a great time, but I feel Symphony bridges rhythm and shooter better. As you play more of the game, and you pay attention to the songs, you can kind of tell when enemies are probably going to show up. As I said, BH does this too, though it overwhelms you with enemies to the point that it's hard to plan ahead for them and it's more about having bullet-hell twitch reflexes.
That kind of reminds me of Amnesia: The Dakr Descent, since you can't attack, and if you see the enemies you start becoming crazy and are likely to die.
Combining genres is also an easy starting point to making a unique game. Especially if you are an indie developer since they have more freedom to be creative.
I feel the Pokemon Ranger series uses this well. Like PuzzleQuest, the game takes out the Turn based battle system and uses minigame style touch-screen based battles. Right? I dont know, I liked the Ranger Games
(I know this is 4 years old, but I have something to say) I really liked the Pokémon Ranger games, but it isn't quite the same. normal Pokémon is a strategy game (which you could call a puzzle if you really want to), while the ranger games rely on fast movements and reaction time. I'm not saying its a bad mix, but it isn't taking out one system and replacing it with a better one, just a different one.
I feel like the genres you choose don't _have_ to highlight the _same_ core ideal. The genres could simply complement each really well, like an Action/Puzzle/RPG. Navigating rooms of toxic gas whilst fighting enemies in a post apocalyptic world? Sounds fun.
Call of Duty isn't the only game that allows and encourages you to reset your level. The series Disgaea does this all the time. Of course you don't have to hit the level cap first, because it's 9999, but resetting your level makes it easier to reach such an enormous level. Another way to think of it is that you don't lose all that much in CoD by resetting your level, so it's like maxing your level and resetting is one 'level' on it's own, and the original levels are like experience.
There's a flash game that combines platform, tower defence, and third person combat in a really interesting and fun way. If I remember correctly, it's on Stickpage if anyone wants to try it.
I chose to disinclude having character classes, overall character levels, and hard caps for skills/abilities because these features felt too constraining in a game that otherwise promoted freedom in choice, pushing boundaries, and earning what you gain. In fact, devoting your character to a few non-combat skills rather than combat ones could make them invaluable as a researcher or as someone who produces/gathers food and researching supplies. Being the best or most powerful fighter isn't necessary in this game, but is optional, and your character's value won't drop as a result of not pursuing this aspect.
The core idea of Minecraft is freedom of creation. Whether Notch was thinking about it or not Minecraft was made to give the player all the tools they needed to go out and do whatever they wanted.
I know what you mean, BF3 is like "We have an entire city for players to wage war" PS2: "Yeah? We gave players 3 CONTINENTS in which to wage war, suck on that!" Planet Side 2 is kind like what any multi-faction MMO should be, a way to kill the guys wearing a different colour that has skill involved and not just shit you buy with game coins. IT IS THE BEST PVP EXPERIENCE I HAVE EVER HAD! XD
I know, that's what I'm saying: the companies that are only in if for the money and don't give a shit about quality will spend more money in marketing than in the actual game itself. That's why it appears that the majority of games today are only in it for the money. But that's only because the ones you see most (due to the advertising) are like that. Every month I walk into a store and buy a game I know very little about, and most of the time I'm pleased, because the dev put a lot of work in it
I really enjoyed how it was done in Deus ex human revolution it fit really well as a mixture between a first person shooter and a game like star wars KOTOR
I love all the creatures you make for different game aspects!
I know it's not a game, but I think one of the best examples of genre mashing ever is Firefly. At first it sounds really, really weird to combine westerns and science fiction, but then you watch it and you realize how fundamentally similar the two are, and how Firefly uses both to deliver on the same thing: the danger and adventure derived from exploring and living in the vast, uncivilized unknown.
Yeah, Space Western doesn't have much in it's genre. The only other thing that rings a bell is Borderlands.
***** Recently I've been listening to a channel called Post Modern Juxebox, and I think one genre we could do more with is noir mixed with stuff. There's a genre of music called Electro Swing, and Transistor showed us a great example of futuristic noir. I think a great game could be a noir detective game in a universe with a combination of sci-i and fantasy. Essentially a fantasy world that went through a steam-punk style industrial revolution, but that was about 50 years ago, so now it's the equivalent of the 1940s, so we have swing and jazz music and a pulpy feel, but with magic and lasers.
There's a lot of "Space Western" in anime, like Cowboy Bebop, or Trigun, or maybe Galaxy Express 999. I don't know about games.
Xisnaf? The linguist?
THATS YOU!! The name I cannot pronounce.
I notice that one thing that you guys seem to reinforce a lot is to have a central vision when designing games that all the design process serves.
*Exactly.*
A good example of this (in my opinion) is Realm of the Mad God.
For those who don't know, it's a blend of MMORPG, arena shooter, and bullet hell (danmaku) shooter.
It was also covered in a "Games You Might Not Have Tried" episode, but I forget which one.
*****
:P
It also have rouge like elements like random worlds and when you die you start over from start
+Jonagor97 2 not random, just massive
The level cap stops the enemies get harder makes you play smarter as time goes on
It was the 3 episode on the 5:44 timestamp
I know, this video is heavily outdated in our short-living times, but I love how your ending music themes always match your topics. The authors of that remix combined classical with electronic/8-bit type of music and it fits together perfectly.
Amnesia's only real stealth element was hiding though, and even then your insanity penalizes being in the dark. That kind of combines genres since you stay sane in light but can be spotted easier, and are safer in the dark but will go insane.
Damn I love that game and this channel for making me think of games so in depth.
Interesting little tidbit on the bioshock thing. It's a case of leftover material that's now missing all it's context. Originally it was integrated into the universe plot wise as another example of the dehumanizing nature of rapture with the hacking being to placate a human brain running the vending machine that was craving it's adam fix and offered you a discount for shunting a little extra to it from the machines stores.
By orphaning that minigame from it's context they inadvertently caused the issue brought up in the video, food for thought eh?
that is an awesome idea! why did they get rid of that for?! Also, o still really enjoyed the minigame
Romeo Ferrari
Same here, as for why I'm not entirely sure but I think they might have considered it a step to far towards it's predecessor. After all we do see plenty of people horribly mutated and the big daddy's are sorta cyborgs but this pushed a bit too close to system shock for them.
Love the part when James punched that designer who suggested leveling XD
The Persona series in recent years have combined social simulation, dungeon crawling rpg, horror, mystery, comedy, urban fantasy, psychology, romance, and detective genres under one game perfectly. Which is one of the main reasons why I love those games so much.
I'm actually playing Persona 3 myself. It's so good. I've played it several times before, but never got around to beating it. The mixing of genres works so well with this game and it actually feels more like a "role playing game" than most jrpgs I've played.
A great example of combining genres is The Last of Us. It has stealth to make you feel like you have no choice but to hide. The action portions are done to make you feel trap -this also applies to the running sequences. Puzzles and platforming is there for atmosphere by giving you familiar places like big city and changing them so they feel more foreign and bizarre.
I actually had a rather solid idea of a rhythm based fighter, where if you time your button presses to a hypothetical beat, you do slightly more damage, making it a rhythm based fighter
Mother 3 for the gba does that, where if you tap the button to the enemies battle music, you'll hit more and do combos. Well it's a rhythm based rpg if you could call it that
Razzling if this is a concept any of you are interested in, check out kickbeat, a rhytm based fighter on steam
Barholtworld You can also try out One Finger Death Punch... if it helps.
The Twisted Hero So you want to make a fighting game based entirely around Donkey Kong's final smash?
Basically yeah, but more in depth, and kinda optional for casual play
The point about JRPG combat being more about puzzle-solving than reflexive skill is spot on. Stuff like countering resistances with certain attacks and skills, to rock-paper-scissors classes, to party composition, to telling Chie to block for a turn before Shadow Yukiko launches a fire attack that normally would have knocked her out because of her weakness to fire that is now nullified due to that timely block...
JRPGs really are just puzzles at their core. Reflexive controls are just a fancy vehicle.
Aaron KTJ yeah, they nailed that. This is probably the reason why turn based battle systems that include 'timed hits' work so well. (Like super mario rpg or eternal sonata), you still get to puzzle.solve, but once the executing animation starts, you get some reactive action in there too, without interfering with the strategic elements
Crypt of the Necrodancer: I could see how movement, especially backtracking, could be something that is lacking in a traditional 2D dungeon crawler experience, so adding the music and timing almost like DDR is actually a great example of this!
Your videos are helping fulfil my dream, even if it's just little things that you think you're doing, it's a lot more to me and other game developers I'm sure, please keep making videos!
Dillon's Rolling Western was a great genre mashup of an action adventure and tower defense. The exploration phase before the invasion helps with the stressful tedium of back to back tower defense levels while also letting you get familiar with the map. This allows that map to be larger and more complex without feeling unfair. The action battles to stop enemies that bypass your turrets help keep the player active in real-time and play a role which many players like myself find more engaging than the passive godlike position of other tower defense games, idly cliking on certain things when they briefly require your attention. The fact that you play a role allows there to be a simple story with quirky characters which gives the game more personality.
GlassMufasa See, I thought it was a bad mashup. I'd rather play either The Legend of Zelda or Plants vs Zombies.
This phrase: "As you make anything more complex, you create an exponential number of new ways it can fail."
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater combined with Bayonetta was a pretty cool idea I had.
That sounds complicated. Keeping in themes with the video, what combines the two?
O.o
You are a genius xD
ToxicWolf1132 I would think the thing that combines them is stylish, fluid motion. Maybe you'd pretty much make an action game like Bayonetta but just have a greater focus on cool movement mechanics and have a point system that encourages combining different movements with different attacks.
Just remember that Metal Gear Solid skate was a thing...
As someone who has literally written and published a book using tricks from these videos, I'd say you've sure got that right, brother.
Catherine I feel is a great example of this. It combines dialogue/decision making in the walking hours of the character while making an interesting puzzle game in the dream sequences on top of adding bosses to the puzzle elements giving more of a fast paced feel I normally dont get with other puzzle games.
Firefall does exactly what you just described. its still in beta, and the actually questing options are limited right now, but the combat is fairly well balanced and incredibly fun, with a high skill ceiling. Its also free to play, without any pay to win type elements, which is amazing for a game of this caliber.
i like how they had multigenre music at the end :D
What I want to see (or create if I find a partner with the skill) is a genre blend of long term and real time strategy in a "conquer the world" type game, you manage your cities, recruit troops, use diplomacy, maneuver your armies, have total control over city planning and whatnot (Total War games approach this level of control, if not quite reach it), and then in battle I'd like to see a mechanic where you can take the role of a unit for a time, using your own skill to make what might have been a single sniper into a battle-changing force at a critical moment, but while you're doing it you are leaving strategy unattended, so it adds the extra dimension of skill, but also another whole level of strategy as the player is forced to think "when should I use this, if I do this now how will things fare until I get back? How can I set things up t make the most of this?"
And in multiplayer with both generals able to go commando at the expense of temporarily being away from the big picture, even more strategy is introduced, as one commander might be turning the tide of battle in one area at the same time the other player is doing it elsewhere. The sheer amount of strategic possibilities for that mechanic would be amazing. I can't program though and I imagine something like this would be incredibly hard to program even for pros...
I know I'm 3 years late to this, but Rise and Fall: Civilizations at War is pretty close to what you're asking for. Not so much the Grand Strategy stuff, but the RTS with the ability to take control of a hero.
God, It took me SOOOO long to realize the intro theme is Bobomb Battle Field
+Lapis Riolazuli OH MY GOD YOURE RIGHT
+Lapis Riolazuli no its actually "penguin cap" by CHM they are similar at points but no its not Bobomb Battle Field
+Lapis Riolazuli As Marcel said, it's a remix of Mario 64 music called Penguin Cap by CHM, but it definitely includes bits of the Bob-omb Battlefield music, along with lots of other music from the game.
Great episode: potent and shprt. For a personal notice: Sanctum saves tower defense's bored rounds by involving and requiring shooting skills in first person. You can level up just towers/guns for a time based on your playstyle, but eventually you'll need both.
Sanctum and Sanctum 2 deliver on this really well. Coffee Stain really outdid themselves with the Sanctum series and it's sad to know that they're only going to be known for Goat Simulator.
Instant thumbs and favorite for the Gemini Man outro! He's my fave robot master, and nobody pays enough credit to him. Best stage music ever!
After seeing this video, I drew a connection between haphazardly combining genres & a category that many fakemon (fake/fan-made pokemon) fall under. Most people make OUTRAGEOUS combinations of types, that would fall apart in the actual games.
"You'd never find something like that in other games" *Disgaea tries to slowly slip away while whistling*
"You'd never find something like that in a traditional RPG"
Legacy skills in Skyrim
The cute little drawings make this even more fun to watch!
Henry Hatsworth did a remarkable job combining platformer and puzzle, with core elements of both genres actively interacting with each other.
But for me its main selling point was that you could pilot a overtly-British MECHA OF RAMPAGING DOOM as your full-meter power. With the transformation being billed as "TEA TIME!"
I remember me and a buddy playing CoD:MW2 for a while. We'd hit level 70, then prestige after some AK47 fun. But then when we hit the top prestige level, we both, without telling the other, googled how to reset all our game stats to start all over again. Good times.
Watching this again, I'm realizing it applies to pretty much all art forms, not just games
Realm of the Mad God... A roguelike MMORPG open world bullet hell shooter... They did it well!
The bullet hell goes well with the roguelike as it makes every fight super intense, while the MMORPG elements like loot, levels and dungeons add a progression for you character to replace the score based rewards of the shooters and help you getting better at the game step by step. Plus, it makes an interesting background for a shooter
I honestly think ratchet end clank has a great mix of genres
Originally it was a platformer abd 3rd person shooter then in the second and 3rd games they added a leveling system for health and each individual weapon
It works well because you have to switch weapons anyway due to limited ammunition and the skill based game play means no enemy should be too strong for all your weapons even if none are leveled up very much.
It all goes towards the main element of the ratchet and clank series having powerful over the top weapons, being s hero and above all blowing $#1t up
why did you censor yourselfn
Sexual Tyranasaurus I was referencing the back of the second game's case which says kicking @$$ one planet at a time
It actually uses those symbols to look like the word so I was trying to mimic that
Randy Johnson ok
+Randy Johnson (MetaSceptile) I find R&C2 has weapons that are kinda underpowered compared to the other games of the series, so I can't imagine how hard it would be with unupgraded weapons.
Poldovico R&C 1 has the most vanilla weapons but yeah up your arsenal is where they really started going over the top
So I'm designing a game with a friend, and we decided combining platformer and point and click adventure would be cool. Seeing this video has got me thinking about that again.
i agree, and think extra credits are the philosophers of games, they made me think about game design as an art, thing i have seen rarely, and as you said, it's an understatement in the videogames industry, considering now games in general seem to be pointing more at money than anything else.
"Mario, jump here"
"Okie dokie!"
It is definitely one of the best games I have ever played. It revolves all around exploring an unknown world, and includes fps elements (because it can be a very solid way to include modern or futuristic fighting), platforming (because that is an excellent way to explore the world), and puzzleing (because it requires you to to think more while you are exploring the vast world). Also, even to this day, metroid prime is pretty graphically impressive.
I remember playing The Hobbit for GameCube and having to solve puzzles (which really just required good reflexes) to pick the locks on treasure chests. It was frustrating, but fun at the same time.
Heh. The CoD question is an easy one: The main aesthetic CoD delivers on is "Competition", the need to show that you're better than others. Since resetting your level for "prestige" (or whatever they call it, I personally never played CoD) adds a shiny medal to your profile, this reinforces the "showing how awesome you are".
That's kind what I was trying to say. You hide from the enemies in the darkness but being in the darkness consumes your sanity, also you have to sneak by since you can't attack enemies. Although Amnesia is also more of an Adventure Game and a Puzzle Game than it is a Stealth Game.
You guys are criminally underrated.
At the word "complex" at 3:33 you showed a puzzle (twisty puzzle) called Petaminx.
That puzzle is indeed complex but NEVER confuse that therm with "complicated"!
It is actually EXTREMELY easy to solve, it's just very long and boring because of all the possible combinations and many pieces you have to move.
So yes, it is right and that image was just a particular but it was a perfect example :P
Have you looked into Invisible Inc.? It combines the tile turn-based mechanics of x-com with standard stealth mechanics (vision cones, guard patrols, stealth takedowns). Plus it's a stealth rogue-like. When you make a mistake you don't wait to retry, you are instead presented with a new problem.
I agree with your point on the pipe puzzles in Bioshock not matching the aesthetic but I think the puzzles are a good change of pace in the game. I always looked forward to those puzzles in Bioshock because it gave me a break from the shooting but still had the same fast-paced little room for error feel that the rest of the game has. Plus, I think that one of the things that made Bioshock work was that it brought in things like puzzles, extensive world-building, and heavy narrative (through things like the posters and the diaries left behind) that aren't always present in first person shooters, which brings in people that wouldn't usually be interested in a first person shooter. Love this channel guys! Has changed how I think of games. Keep rockin' n' rollin' \m/
I didn't know genre mashing was a thing. I thought I was the only one who liked it. I am a fan of RPGs and TCGs. I was working on a way to mash them. I was developing a table top card game. Recently I was thinking of a way to have a video game based on that. This video gives good advice. I can think og other Extra Credits videos.
The idea of mashing genres is to emphasize a common core. I think there is a common core between RPGs and TCGs. Both have huge potential for storytelling and lore. Both have lots of custimization for the player. Both have the power of the player grow over time. Both have combat based more on stratgey as opposed to speed. Maybe there is a way to mix the two while still delivering on a core. I love how rich things get. It is deep in the sense of having vast customization options. I realized that my practice in doing a tabletop game forces me to simplify the math. This has got to be simple enough for players to do in thier head. This is good for video game version as well. It makes things less complex. Having more depth and less complexity is a good thing. There is a whole video about complexity and depth.
I am lucky that this video talked about RPGs. That is so relavent for me personally. The anecdote about putting puzzles in an RPG is cool. I would like to do something similar. Instead of puzzles, I would like to uses ideas of RPGs. RPGs tend to have a single resource for attacks. DND has spell slots. Pokemon has PP. WOW has a single mana bar. I thought of having resources come in four flavors. There are four whole groups of magic. Nature is the green magic with shamans and speed. Arcane is the red magic of mages and offense. Occult is the blue magic of warlocks and defense. Holy is the yellow magic of priests and support. The classes are all magicians. Each class has access to one or two types of mana. Then specific mana is used to fuel attacks with specific costs. The best resource system I have seen is in MTG. There is the color pie. It is genious. One of my favorite Extra Credits videos is about the color pie. I use a similar system in my game. I recently realized that there should be some kind of system of spells. One doesnt just pick one of thier attacks. They have a large set of spells tied to the class. However spells have to be prepared before they can be used. One starts out with some prepaired spells. Then each turn they prepare a spell and use a spell. There would be a seperate pool for used spells. They normally can't be used for the rest of the battle. I just thought of this idea. So I dont have the terminology down. I am still sthinking of a video game version of the deck, hand and discard pile. The greater complexity in mana and spells lead to some fun shenanigans. Some spells increase mana. Some allow the player to prepaire extra spells. Some allow used spells to be reused. There are more possibilities. The combat is a bit more convoluted. Coming up with a strategy is like solving a puzzle. That can be a fresh new spin on otherwize stale combat in RPGs.
This actually made me feel more comfortable with my idea for a shooter-platformer because both genres are fundamentally about mastery.
We talkin about an FPS or a shmup?
CJ Skittlez Gears of War on one screen, 3D Land on another. Originally envisioned it for Wii-U and started messing around in Unity based on that, but since hearing the NEW 3DS will support Unity I've started to think it'd work even better there.
One of my favorite instances of Genre Blending has to be the Metroid Prime series, it manages to remove all the elements of traditional FPSs that I LOATHE ENTIRELY and replace them with the good old-fashioned exploration that I have enjoyed in many a platformer. That doesn't mean that this game is entirely immune to my inability to play FPSs well, but I've always enjoyed absurd challenges in games.
Well, you see, when one monster and another monster love each other very much, they go through a development phase. During this development phase, ideas run wild between the monsters, the monsters' owners, the cages, etc. until a product is created.
Then, this product that has been made is sent to a third party to test, debate, test more, and pretend to test while actually just playing with the product. Afterwards, the two monsters enter into a business agreement and live happily ever after.
I just played a PC game called Recettear. In the game, you run an item shop in a simulation game, but there are RPG-style dungeons you can go to to get items to sell in your shop. I started thinking of the possibility of this in MMOs. Imagine one where the game is inhabited by real players. Some do the standard adventure thing, but others run the item shops, and others raise and sell crops harvest-moon style, and others could be NPC's and send people on quests and play a type of life-simulation.
Best Genre-combined results recently :
Fortnite
Factorio
Stellaris
Auto Chess
Rocket League
The Borderlands series is a great cross between a first-person shooter, and a RPG with randomized loot and 3 distinct skill trees for every class to create a unique gameplay style based on the skills you invest in.
Really, this is applicable to almost any medium, be it video games or music or fiction: Theme and goal are the real arbiters of form and style. A piece of art, interactive or not, should be cohesive regardless of the individual elements involved. Even if something theoretically "goes with" something else, if the part does not fit with the intent, it does not need to go there; likewise, a seemingly left-field addition can resonate with a theme and work regardless.
I think i'll contribute with yet another way to blend genres properly:
The story.
Think of what parts of what genres would fit into the telling of the story or its plots.
Thinking of what overall mood and setting it takes part in is also a good way.
Brutal Legend did an excellent job of this in my opinion.
Firefall, it is exactly how you describe it. It's an MMORPG and you can play third person or first person. The game centers on PVE and teamwork.
man i so want a street fighter/RTS game
im surprised he didnt mention borderlands. I think the rpg elements are one of the best examples of how to mix rpg and action elements together
For a while I've been toying around with an idea for a game that's a deconstruction of video games tropes, and to cover as many as possible it would be a 3rd person shooter, hack n' slash, puzzle platformer, adventure game with a heavy emphasis on rpg elements. but according to this doing that well would be somewhere between crazy difficult and impossible
"Hey, you know all those cool heroes in MOBAs? What if we did the same thing, but with FPS?"
>>>Overwatch is born (along with others)
one of the most memorable books i've ever read is ex-heros because it had both zombies and superheros in it, and pulled it off really well! i've never seen both of those together before and i loved how both themes tied into each other, i would explain more but spoilers. just thought the book was a great example of combining genres
You guys should make one about what good characteristics make a good villian!
Crypt of the NecroDancer.
rouge-like rhythm game.
that is all.
rogue
rouge is French for "red", it's also a cosmetic product for people's cheeks. If there's a "rouge-like" game... I wonder what it's like.
I'm not sure if it's the right place and I don't feel like making other new accounts, but I'd like to request a possible topic for an episode. The phenomenon of the slippery slope, whereas when the game gives advantages to the winning player to the point he or she will just keep on winning, while the losing player may as well just give up. TVTropes has an entry on it called Unstable Equilibrium. Thank you very much.
You would never see a system that lets you reset yourself to level one in Mass Effect. *Plays ME3 Multiplayer*, *See's promote button*, *laughs*, *cries*, *dies a little inside*
Take notes Bioware!
Shooter + stunt driving + sandbox rpg = GTA. It's fast cars without being strictly a racing game. It's shooting, but not war or monsters. Its RPG, but without being more anime than video game. It's action, but with just a touch of storyline. It's all of the above and none of the above. It cannot be categorized. Instead, similar games are often referred to as "GTA clones", even more than a decade later. It is my eternal favorite because of its perfect blending of genres.
i saw this on your website and thought to myself this is going to be interesting
One great Genre-blending series I recall playing is SpellForce... A blend fairly simple to concieve of as it's a mix of a Diabloesque Hack'n'Slash and a Warcraft-y RTS but it works really well. Especially in the first game The Order of Dawn.I strongly suggest playing it because it's really an underappreciated tittle.
Yup, a great title. Actually as a child I came up with an idea of combining a strategy game (I was a huge fan of "The Settlers") and an RPG, and a little while later I found out the dude who invented "The Settlers" was making SpellForce, and I was not disappointed in the least.
Puzzle Quest was so ADDICTING!
my favourites are usually Horror + RPG. Shadow Hearts, Parasite Eve and more all work very well with story, atmosphere and gameplay seamlessly
can you make the genres as plushys
they are so cute
i'm really surprised you guys didn't bring up natural selection 2, it's a great example of this, well, actually now that i think about it i'm not all that surprised, natural selection 2 has gotten no where near the publicity it deserves.
I had never heard about that game before, so I took a look at it, yeah, I can't believe they did it, but they successfully (well, as successfully as you can get) merged a Third-person shooter and a Turn-based Strategy game... Wow...
I really liked how Fable 2 combined an Action/Adventure with elements of a city builder sim. You gain experience by killing enemies, but you gain money by real estate. I'd like to see more like that.
Fable 3 tried, but they got carried away with decorations. It was too complex to do it yourself, and too simple to auto-fix.
a pitaminx puzzle cube on Extra Credits. Mind Blown
Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Games mix elements of RPGs (Somewhat streamlined Pokemon Combat), Dungeon Crawlers, and Rouglikes (Maps never being the same).
They actually don't. Traditional roguelikes have those elements already. The difference in P:MD is actually the party mechanic.
ArtlessMammet Let's agree to disagree.
Silver the Hedgehog 77 Roguelikes and Dungeon Crawlers are basically synonymous, and they're both a subset of RPG...
I think that "Beat Hazard" is a game that cobinse genres in a great way,because its both a space shooter game and a rythem game!
Beat Hazard is pretty fun, though I think the game Symphony combines the two genres better. The way enemies enter into the fight just seems more based on the beats or rhythm of the song itself. Beat Hazard has this element, too, and it's still a great time, but I feel Symphony bridges rhythm and shooter better. As you play more of the game, and you pay attention to the songs, you can kind of tell when enemies are probably going to show up. As I said, BH does this too, though it overwhelms you with enemies to the point that it's hard to plan ahead for them and it's more about having bullet-hell twitch reflexes.
That kind of reminds me of Amnesia: The Dakr Descent, since you can't attack, and if you see the enemies you start becoming crazy and are likely to die.
Combining genres is also an easy starting point to making a unique game. Especially if you are an indie developer since they have more freedom to be creative.
The genres are cute in this
I feel the Pokemon Ranger series uses this well. Like PuzzleQuest, the game takes out the Turn based battle system and uses minigame style touch-screen based battles.
Right? I dont know, I liked the Ranger Games
Me too
(I know this is 4 years old, but I have something to say)
I really liked the Pokémon Ranger games, but it isn't quite the same. normal Pokémon is a strategy game (which you could call a puzzle if you really want to), while the ranger games rely on fast movements and reaction time. I'm not saying its a bad mix, but it isn't taking out one system and replacing it with a better one, just a different one.
I feel like the genres you choose don't _have_ to highlight the _same_ core ideal. The genres could simply complement each really well, like an Action/Puzzle/RPG. Navigating rooms of toxic gas whilst fighting enemies in a post apocalyptic world? Sounds fun.
Call of Duty isn't the only game that allows and encourages you to reset your level. The series Disgaea does this all the time. Of course you don't have to hit the level cap first, because it's 9999, but resetting your level makes it easier to reach such an enormous level. Another way to think of it is that you don't lose all that much in CoD by resetting your level, so it's like maxing your level and resetting is one 'level' on it's own, and the original levels are like experience.
There is much wisdom in your videos.
I LOVE THIS OUTRO MUSIC!
Horror and Comedy are great together
The genres are adorable.
Love the design of the genre animals
Battlezone 2, amazing RTS - Tank Shooter hybrid. Sadly, almost no one played it.
i alway's enjoy these episodes
There's a flash game that combines platform, tower defence, and third person combat in a really interesting and fun way. If I remember correctly, it's on Stickpage if anyone wants to try it.
MMORPGFPS
sealedinterface destiny? :O
sealedinterface Indie Action MMORPGFPSRTS
Indie isn't a genre...
MMORPGFPSRTSMOBA
& Knuckles
wow....puzzle quest...theres a game i never would have thought id hear again
I chose to disinclude having character classes, overall character levels, and hard caps for skills/abilities because these features felt too constraining in a game that otherwise promoted freedom in choice, pushing boundaries, and earning what you gain. In fact, devoting your character to a few non-combat skills rather than combat ones could make them invaluable as a researcher or as someone who produces/gathers food and researching supplies. Being the best or most powerful fighter isn't necessary in this game, but is optional, and your character's value won't drop as a result of not pursuing this aspect.
The core idea of Minecraft is freedom of creation. Whether Notch was thinking about it or not Minecraft was made to give the player all the tools they needed to go out and do whatever they wanted.
I know what you mean, BF3 is like "We have an entire city for players to wage war"
PS2: "Yeah? We gave players 3 CONTINENTS in which to wage war, suck on that!"
Planet Side 2 is kind like what any multi-faction MMO should be, a way to kill the guys wearing a different colour that has skill involved and not just shit you buy with game coins. IT IS THE BEST PVP EXPERIENCE I HAVE EVER HAD! XD
I know, that's what I'm saying: the companies that are only in if for the money and don't give a shit about quality will spend more money in marketing than in the actual game itself. That's why it appears that the majority of games today are only in it for the money. But that's only because the ones you see most (due to the advertising) are like that. Every month I walk into a store and buy a game I know very little about, and most of the time I'm pleased, because the dev put a lot of work in it
I'm surprised you guys didn't mention AI War (or the other games Arcen have made) in this. Pretty much all of their three games are multi-genre.
I really enjoyed how it was done in Deus ex human revolution it fit really well as a mixture between a first person shooter and a game like star wars KOTOR