Minor quibble: The SCAL Bridge is not a lift bridge, it's a drawbridge (Strauss Trunnion Bascule, to be specific). The 21st St. Bridge, however, is a lift bridge. The reason the towers are not square in cross-section is because the river crosses beneath at an oblique angle, so the lift span is skewed to follow the angle and maximize the horizontal clearance. That junction used to be much busier. The connecting line to 16th Street Tower also served Dearborn Station, and the Santa Fe ran alongside the Chicago & Alton before splitting at Bridgeport.
Until fairly recently, the St. Charles Air Line was double-tracked. It was sometime after the pandemic that one of the tracks and many of its viaducts over the streets were dismantled. I don't know if this is permanent or to make way for reconstruction.
CN, who owns the track east of the river, wanted to make the track single track since they do not run a lot of trains over those tracks anymore, so the took out the north track. Then the bridge broke, so I don't know if they are going to fix the lead that goes to the st charles Air line or not. I'm not sure of the SAL is still owned by bnsf, UP, and CN, or if someone else owns it now
This is a project that is currently on hold: Grand Crossing Flyover This project will allow the 6 current Amtrak trains serving Champaign, Carbondale and New Orleans to reroute from the CN Lakefront and St. Charles Airline route to the Norfolk Southern Chicago Line and connect to the CN tracks at 75th & South Chicago Ave. This routing will eliminate the time-consuming back-up move at 16th Street near Halsted, which the current track configuration requires for these Amtrak trains to access Chicago Union Station. The re-route will reduce travel times by approximatelly 10-15 minutes each way. The project will also increase capacity on a congested section of the Norfolk Southern mainline that currently serves 14 daily Amtrak trains between Chicago and points east. This project will also allow for the space currently occupied by the St. Charles Airline in Chicago and the CN mainline tracks along the Lakefront north of Grand Crossing to be used to serve future public needs.
Hmm, that sounds like a different proposal than the one I'm aware of. There's a recent proposal to have a track from Union Station directly to the St. Charles Airline as part of Amtrak's Chicago hub improvement project.
@@genevarailfan3909 The Grand Crossing plan was/is part of the CREATE octopus. Amtrak has since thought better of it with the idea now to build that ramp up to the SCAL, a higher speed connection to the Rock Island for the Texas Eagle, service over the South Shore to Michigan, NYP & WUS, and all trains going south continuing down the CN/IC. Amtrak tried to get money for this but no soap. Too bad. It's the one idea they've had I agree with.
I don’t see how they can build a line from Union Station to St Charles Air Line, at least if the wanted to use one of those 2 existing bridges. I don’t think the northern bridge has been used since Grand Central Station was torn down.
@@TommyJohnson-ms8pb They (Amtrak) “say” there’s enough distance between Roosevelt Road and the SCAL to build a ramp. (I’m too lazy to do the math.) The northern B&OCT structure would most likely be completely/partially torn down in the process. And then there’s the matter of the SCAL drawbridge. It will need a huge ($$$$$$) amount of work or a total replacement.
This kinda makes more sense because to get to Grand Crossing is more of a straight shot south from Union Station, though it has to go through the NS service yards. It seems to me that it would be less costly to build a ramp and junction there.
Nice to see someone that knows a little about Chicago. The Air Line lift bridge that is out of service was the Soo Line track that went into the Soo Terminal Distribution Center, now a shopping market,. the C.T.A train in the beginning is the Orange Line 'L" train and the"J" is now part of the C.N.R.R, and was the Elgin Joliet and Eastern owned by U.S.Steel that is now used as a Chicago by pass, but you sounded good anyway
It's the same way in New Orleans, all trains usually hit a wye and back into the station. When the train is serviced and ready it will leave out forward. If the trains are late, most times they will pull directly into the station and get turned while being served and backed into the station.
At Pittsburgh, the Pennsylvanian is wyed during servicing, or about forty five minutes after arrival. With the new trainsets in the offing, the manoeuvre should be unnecessary, good news for NS and AVR, who are keen on turning the wye into a bicycle trail.
If you americans would build trains with two cabs at both ends, like the rest of the world does it, you wouldn't need to turn a train, that can run at the same speed in both directions anyway!
The other thing that I note about this route is that most of the junctions seem to be at grade. This has got to be one of those lines that is often delayed.
The CN mail line runs above grade with no crossings or foreign railroad junctions from 16th Street all the way to Stuenkel (end of the line for Metra Electric) in far south suburban University Park.
Hey, thanks for the information! I'm a lifelong Chicagoan and, while I've filmed in Union Station a number of times on films and TV shows, I've never taken a ride on Amtrak... sigh sigh
What?! When and if you have the time consider taking a trip on one of the long distance trains. The unique experience and scenery makes it a journey worth taking at least once.
The 🚉 the IC used before it got rerouted to Union was Central 🚉 where the Museum Campus/11th Street 🚉 is currently @ & prior to Central 🚉, there was Great Central which is where Millennium is currently @
I thought so. Because I thought that the Illinois Central couldn’t get a right of way into Chicago, so it built trestles out in the lake up to where Millenium station is now. And eventually, the city built landfill out to and passed that right away.
Thanks for the insight on the routes! I live in the Central Station neighborhood and the Amtrak/CN lines run through the east end of our part of the city. Usually they're freight trains but a couple times a day we see Amtrak trains, and I had the feeling one of them was the City of New Orleans.
Amtrak's Hiawatha & Empire Builder could benefit from a more convenient transfer station at Mayfair to the CTA. Presently, there's the Amtrak stop at Glenview, then continues south on past Mayfair to Union Station. What if a traveler arrives at O'Hare airport and wants to take the Hiawatha north to Milwaukee? There's no easy method to get there by rail, even though they could, if a new Amtrak stop was created at CTA's Mayfair location.
It's a good thought, but wouldn't this traveler be far more likely to just fly to Milwaukee? Doing the reverse though (flying to Milwaukee and taking the train to Chicago) is easy, and attractive since MKE is such a nice airport.
Frequent buses to Milwaukee from O'Hare exist, and 294 through to 94 is mostly freeflowing enough the trip from O'Hare to Mayfair would negate time savings.
@@genevarailfan3909 At least for international flights, Chicago O'Hare is much more likely to be seen as an intermediate travel destination, vs. Milwaukee. Flying into Chicago from London Gatwick, and final destination La Crosse, Wisconsin, as a northwards random example. Or Battle Creek, Michigan, going south & east.
@@RVail623That's a good point, though for an international trip like that the 40m ride to Union Station isn't going to make a big difference over a 25m ride to Glenview. Especially since for Battle Creek you'd have to go to Union anyway.
@@genevarailfan3909 If you're talking about a taxi ride from O'Hare to Glenview, that wouldn't be cheap. Taking CTA from O'Hare to Mayfair, then transfer right there to a northbound Amtrak train would seem to be more convenient as well as less expensive.
the same thing happens in San Antonio at the their union station on the Texas eagle on the way to Chicago because it needs to reverse backwards past the alamodome before they can go forward onto the correct track towards San Marcos otherwise the train will be on the track towards Houston which is the way used by sunset limited
Thank you. Last May my sister and i did a sibling trip to Memphis riding on the City of New Orleans. It was dark when we left and i could not figure out how we turned around. Now i know. Thanks
The GM&O North & southbound at 3:40 is also a route we use on these trains. Thats the route to STL. Carbondale trains will go beyond the control point called "Cermak" and then pull towards 21st St Interlocker. The route you went in this video is called "new connection". The airline is between Union Ave on the BNSF, up and over the yard and river and ends at 16th st. The track you are on here from 16th st to Mccormak Place is not the airline. The run time is not 15 minutes. The run time from the post to 16th St is 12 minutes. The ramp from 16th st down to the yard would still take 3 or 4 minutes, so the savings for an outbound train is 8 minutes or so. The run time from 16th St to the post on an inbound train is 15 minutes, this is due to slower speeds shoving onto the platform and having to perform a tail hose test before beginning the shove move. So inbounds would save 10 minutes or so. The big benefit to the ramp being built is the ability to move STL trains to Metra Rock Island and get them off the CN Joliet Sub ex GM&O gauntlet
Metra's CEO agrees with you, based on some recent comments. Something like "We'd like a thru station downtown, but can't demolish buildings or build tunnels to do that. So we're going to have to get creative."
Years ago, I thought the St. Charles Air Line was slated for destruction in some plan. I thought it didn't make sense because it was the only connection between the west side and the former IC tracks.
@@PRHILL9696 They are not on the list of National Historic Landmarks. Maybe something local? In any case they will either have to be maintained to keep from becoming a hazard or removed.
@@maestromecanico597 Yeah, I am not sure. I was told that is why the one draw bridge that is never used is still there and just raised all the time as they cannot tear it down as it is a landmark . Same for the rail road bridge downtown by Kinzie street. But, I do not know if that is true.
@@PRHILL9696 Apparently the SCAL bridge is on the Chicago list of landmarks. Not so sure about the B&OCT bridge. And although I’d hate to see them go we have to consider future viability for the railroad.
so ... technically is't sth which could be fixed easily with either repairing the old bridge / building a new bridge and a new curve linking both lines? Also when looking at the map and how the area is used, this seems absolutely possible. We had a similar issue with our airport. It was only served by commuter trains coming from the south, with a branch line splitting from the main line an a sharpe angle. The airport wasn't served by trains coming from the north, proceeding south and into the city. Passengers from there had to get off the train at the previous station and take the direct bus line to the airport. An option, but not very convenient. Maybe 5 years ago a new 1.4 mile short link was built, connecting the branch line via a turn to the main line in the other direction. The double tracked and electrified link via two bridges and re-arranging some of the existing tracks costs 91 million
They wouldn't have to turn the train around after arriving forward, because Chicago is the end of the route. After stopping in the station, trains go to the yard to be disassembled, maintained, and reassembled for another (probably different) trip.
Amtrak doesn't currently have any presence at Millennium, and there's not really room to add the offices and services they'd need. Transfers would also be harder, since they'd need a shuttle across to Union.
It would make no sense to have 3 train pairs at a different station from all others. Note that Randolph / Millennium never hosted intercity trains which terminated at Central Station, 11th Pl at Michigan Ave. near where Museum Campus Station is now. When Amtrak took over most intercity service it took them over a year to work out the details to move the trains over to CUS, which is why Central stayed open longer. The storage yard & shops is near CUS. Finally, Millennium Station is underground and cannot host diesels.
@@genevarailfan3909 Union Station is not underground. The area between the two concourses is below a building - there used to be a CUS Concourse Building until it was razed. But the tracks are at ground level as you can see from the river side. But more to the point in each trainshed north and south there is a vent above each track for its entire length. You can see them from the platforms and walking around outside you can get a good view of them for the south trainshed.
@@filmteknik Technically yes, it is at ground level. But it's below street level, which in Chicago is underground for practical purposes. Only part of the south trainshed doesn't have buildings/streets on top of it, and the entire north trainshed is under streets and buildings.
Having used the Saluki and Illini trains to come home some weekends, and seeing this video now, when will Amtrak just run those as double ended trainsets like the Hiawatha? Seems like it would make more sense...
Tell me you know nothing about how infrastructure is built and financed without saying that you know nothing about how infrastructure is built and financed. Oh, you already did.
Central Station (built 1893) was south of Millennium Station, near the modern Museum Campus/11th Street station. It replaced Great Central Station, which was where Millennium is now. The Bean is about a block and a half from Millennium.
30+ years ago, Amtrak had a daily train between Decatur and Chicago that ran east on the NS to Tolono then turned north onto the then IC, now CN tracks to Chicago. It was a 3 car bi-level train set that got pushed (rear coach had a control compartment on the upper level) to Chicago and pulled back. Wondering why they don’t just do this on these trains and avoid all the shoving and direction changes OR, since these Charger locos seem to be so troublesome, just put a locomotive on both ends and make it a bi-directional train set? I get the cost of the loco being a factor but I also recall Amtrak converting some old F40’s into control cars several years ago.
Side note - Assuming the train in the video reversing is the actual City of New Orleans, it’s ironic to me that unit number 59 is on it. I recall that being the train number at least at some point.
The exterior shot of the reversing train is one of the Illinois Service trains (either Illini or Saluki) that uses the same route to get to Carbondale. The interior shots are from the City of New Orleans, train 58/59 (you're right!).
People also want to reroute the Pere Marquette, Blue 💧, Wolverine, Capitol Limited, & Lake Shore Limited to the SJC & take the ⬇️ Shore Line 🛤️ to Michigan, DC, & 🗽/Boston cause the line they currently use is owned by NS who always gives them delays & they’re also trying to reroute both the Lincoln Service & Texas 🦅 through the 🪨🏝️ District cause the Heritage Corridor is owned by CN who always gives them delays
Nice comment, but I don't think too many people are going to get your Rock Island emojis. The Railroad itself went out of business in 1980 and the only current map it's on is Metra's, unless of course you count the Illinois town/city.
Most of the short-distance ones do. There's not much need for that on trains that are running ~1000 miles, with plenty of time to turn around at the end. But having a cab at the other end wouldn't change the fact that these trains have to change direction.
@@genevarailfan3909 Thank you for that. I remember that we had to reverse into NOLA when we got there. Although if memory serves me correctly it didn't take as long as getting out of Chicago.
@@genevarailfan3909Let's hope that it keeps imporving. It is such a convenient way to travel if done correctly. Germany has gone in the other direction in the last decades, where cost cutting had short term benefits and now we're paying the price for it.
Regular Service, but the heavy Daily traffic south is on a different line (Running through Springfield to St Louis, just about the only profitable line off the coast). City of new Orleans is historical/vacation, and there isn't nearly as much demand from Southern Illinois U (Carbondale to Chicago, though I wouldn't be surprised if some students use it to run home on occasion). The Med school for SIU is in Springpatch anyway.
319/318 and 21/22 don't use this route. They use the line seen at 3:36. Though they do go in and out of Union Station on the same track past the yards, of course.
Some trains do, but in this case it would be a lot more cost than benefit. Having to stop, change direction, and make tight curves is more time-consuming than simply running backwards.
This cannot be safe. Where is the train being driven from. What happens if something/someone is on the line? Are there controls at the back of the train?
There's a conductor on the back end calling signals and distances to the engineer, also should have their hand on the emergency brake if needed. Happens everyday, everywhere.
An interesting video, it's been 44 years since I was in the Windy City riding Amtrak. However, a suggestion. When crossing Chicago streets, could you name them. I think I figured it all out from the OpenRailwayMap but some more specific pointers would help, it would help those of us from Down Under follow the video! I think I ID'd S Canal St and S State St. That's a cool map by the way, haven't seen it before!
Does the train itself knows that it is moving backward? If no, what difference will it make if the engine is placed ahead of the coaches to drag it forward in its backward mode?
You could do that, but it would add more switching moves (time) to bring the engine back to the front of the train for the main part of the trip. It's more practical to just have the conductor stand at the back while the train reverses.
So i'm going to assume something here by your channel name. You are a rail fan and you might live in or around Geneva IL. If so great as I live not to far from the UP West line in Wheaton/Winfield area. At the 6:35 time mark how is it your travel companion does not know what is beyond the tree line past Solider Field.
Are push/pull services not all that common in the US then? Seems like a way to make infrastructure improvements simpler as the train could simply be driven from the non motor end rather than having to change directions so that the loco is at the front again.
@@genevarailfan3909 You could also just improve your trains. Why do they still have only one cab per train? Diesel and Electric trains don't know a "front" direction anymore, because they are not run by cylinders that can only effectively put their energy onto the wheels in one direction, like you had it with Steam. You only need to switch a button and what was back is now front.
It is no wonder that rail transportation, particularly rail passenger transportation, is so cost-ineffective in North America! Presumably, at an earlier time when a proper connection could have been designed so as to provide maximum operating flexibility (and redundancy in case of outages), and this at minimal cost then, it is most likely that some financial "bean-counter" claimed that this would "never be necessary". The unfortunate consequence of this is that peoples with such a lack of vision pay no price for their decision. Flexibility is NOT a luxury in a constantly evolving world. 2024/04/11. Ontario, Canada.
Interesting subject, but needs _far more map integration_ to be comprehensible to anyone not a local of Chicago proper. The window view footage gives a nice human touch but would much benefit from a map inset or overlay, _Indiana Jones_ style perhaps.
That would have been great! But unfortunately a "real" video editing program that could do that is out of the budget right now. Maybe if the channel gets monetized eventually.
If they did that, they'd still have to waste time for the engineer to walk through the train to the other engine. It also would be a waste of an engine to use it for such a short section of a long distance route.
@@genevarailfan3909 there is no time wasted walking to the other engine since that would be done during the time passenger's are getting off/on the train. The other option to using a second engine is to add a car at the end with a driver cab. That would also prevent wasting time backing up.
There's not a big safety difference, since the conductor stands at the rear of the train for the reverse move, and is able to apply the brakes if needed.
Mainly because there are other buildings on that location now, including a commuter station. There's not room to add baggage, waiting, etc. for long distance trains there, and transfers would be harder since nearly all the other trains would still be at Union Station.
... and as a European I just wonder, why they just don't use two locomotives for each side, then they wouldn't have to care. But well, this is the USA, when it comes to trains you still operate them as if we have the 1930s with steam
That would mean using a second locomotive (and a bunch of fuel) to slightly simplify one mile or less of a 900 mile (1450km) trip! That would be very wasteful.
@@maas1208 That wouldn't help, because the train still has to change direction. The delay isn't because it's going backwards, the delay is because it has to change direction and take a circuitous route.
This potentially and partially informative video needs to display with a map the entire route of the "wonky" detour prior to the Chicago River crossing -and why does the video end with an inbound segment?
There are maps shown: 2:25 for the old route and 4:45 for the current route. It ends with an inbound segment because the train has to use this maneuver in both directions, and I used my outbound footage earlier in the video.
For one thing the locations of the station, river, and existing subway lines would make routing a new tunnel very difficult. For another, it wouldn't make sense to invest in building new infrastructure when there's existing infrastructure that can just be repaired and upgraded.
Some alderman/congressperson probably didn't get bribed to get that bridge repair funding...jk...? Amtrak is the 'red headed step-child' of transportation
@@raylrodr I prefer my car. I'm not squeezing onto a car that smells of disappointment and poor hygiene. And I can carry my pistol, and drive anywhere I want to go.
@@genevarailfan3909 they haven't once turned a profit. I think the tax dollars would be better utilized elsewhere. It's time they stood or fall on their own. If they concentrate on the busiest routes and cut the less utilized lines instead of trying to expand they would likely do much better.
Why is it called the saint Charles air line and the one in Florida called the seaboard air line .I am a new rail fan.My father worked foe Southern Pacific so my childhood was wonderfully full of trains and I am now seeing how wonderful it was.
It was originally intended to run to the Mississippi River via the town of St. Charles. At that time, railroads would use the term "air line" to say that they had a very straight and direct "as the crow flies" route, rather than winding between hills and along rivers. Construction of the line never made it out of downtown Chicago though.
Southern Illinois native here. I've never been to Chicago, and it looks really dingy. I have been to NYC, and it seems to be a lot more clean and cheerful.
I've been to SIU for a graduation ceremony, it was dingy there. This was posted 2 weeks ago it looks like. That's March otherwise called still winter in Chicago so cold and grey. Not sure how you can judge dingyness if you never have been to said place.
Well, the outdoor footage was shot in November, and the onboard was last March, but your point about winter stands. Chicago is definitely dingy though, especially that part of it.
Not all of Chicago is that dingy. The north side of Chicago is really nice, and compared to NYC, rent is actually affordable in Chicago, whereas in New York, you are either destined to live in a closet or with 10 other people.
In "communist europe" there are control coaches, where the operator can sit and the locomotive is remotely controlled. some modern trains even are bi- directional.
Chicago has hundreds of those on commuter trains, and Amtrak uses them on some shorter routes that have less time to turn a train around. That wouldn't benefit these trains though--the problem isn't that the train needs a second cab to help it back up, but that the train has to change direction and loop around.
The location is fantastic for them. However I could concede that the shops should be moved to like Gary or something, though of course that would rack up excessive hostler bills, and Norfolk Southern would be less than ecstatic to quadruple traffic on their line.
Makes complete sense to reshuffle the entire network because someone was mean to you. And then when someone in St. Louis looks at you funny, you can recenter the Midwest routes in, I don't know, let's say Pittsburgh. Very sensible way to make decisions.
@@de-fault_de-fault I am not opposed to basing the network in Pittsburgh 😄. Ever since US Air left, I can’t really get anywhere anymore. Rebuild the Panhandle and Buffalo and Pittsburgh, it’ll be great. Then again, our station would need more than a single platform, and the yard is in Conway, and NS again would love to have nothing to do with it.
Location-wise, you can't really get a better location than Chicago. Huge population center with major rail infrastructure already existing. I haven't had an issue with the employees, though maybe it depends on the time of day. I could certainly believe that it's hard to find good workers in Chicago.
In the airline industry, a hub often is unprofitable, if it doesn't generate a substantial amount or origination and destination traffic (O&D). TWA and Delta both scaled back operations at O'Hare because of delays and American and United both amassing more gate space. TWA and Delta learned the hard way that their mid-continent hubs, St. Louis and Cincinnati, respectively, did not generate as much O&D traffic as Chicago It would be the same if Amtrak tried to move its Midwest hub to St. Louis. St. Louis is a much smaller metro area.
Minor quibble: The SCAL Bridge is not a lift bridge, it's a drawbridge (Strauss Trunnion Bascule, to be specific). The 21st St. Bridge, however, is a lift bridge. The reason the towers are not square in cross-section is because the river crosses beneath at an oblique angle, so the lift span is skewed to follow the angle and maximize the horizontal clearance.
That junction used to be much busier. The connecting line to 16th Street Tower also served Dearborn Station, and the Santa Fe ran alongside the Chicago & Alton before splitting at Bridgeport.
In the old days, you could make a horse go backwards to show respect to the king.. this is just a respectful train
thank you upside down profile pic guy
Until fairly recently, the St. Charles Air Line was double-tracked. It was sometime after the pandemic that one of the tracks and many of its viaducts over the streets were dismantled. I don't know if this is permanent or to make way for reconstruction.
Wait, really? Got a source for that? That's news to me
CN, who owns the track east of the river, wanted to make the track single track since they do not run a lot of trains over those tracks anymore, so the took out the north track. Then the bridge broke, so I don't know if they are going to fix the lead that goes to the st charles Air line or not. I'm not sure of the SAL is still owned by bnsf, UP, and CN, or if someone else owns it now
Believe it happened in 2020 - I lived around there during the dismantling
@@hunterkiller86 the double track couldnt even be utilized anyway.
That funding to work on Union Station has already started and is just... 🤕
I went to union station from Aurora just a week ago and can confirm there is scaffolding all over the
@@YeOldeGeezer There is, but I was told by the workers that is for work on Canal Street above, and not Union Station
This is a project that is currently on hold:
Grand Crossing Flyover
This project will allow the 6 current Amtrak trains serving Champaign, Carbondale and New Orleans to reroute from the CN Lakefront and St. Charles Airline route to the Norfolk Southern Chicago Line and connect to the CN tracks at 75th & South Chicago Ave. This routing will eliminate the time-consuming back-up move at 16th Street near Halsted, which the current track configuration requires for these Amtrak trains to access Chicago Union Station. The re-route will reduce travel times by approximatelly 10-15 minutes each way. The project will also increase capacity on a congested section of the Norfolk Southern mainline that currently serves 14 daily Amtrak trains between Chicago and points east. This project will also allow for the space currently occupied by the St. Charles Airline in Chicago and the CN mainline tracks along the Lakefront north of Grand Crossing to be used to serve future public needs.
Hmm, that sounds like a different proposal than the one I'm aware of. There's a recent proposal to have a track from Union Station directly to the St. Charles Airline as part of Amtrak's Chicago hub improvement project.
@@genevarailfan3909 The Grand Crossing plan was/is part of the CREATE octopus. Amtrak has since thought better of it with the idea now to build that ramp up to the SCAL, a higher speed connection to the Rock Island for the Texas Eagle, service over the South Shore to Michigan, NYP & WUS, and all trains going south continuing down the CN/IC. Amtrak tried to get money for this but no soap. Too bad. It's the one idea they've had I agree with.
I don’t see how they can build a line from Union Station to St Charles Air Line, at least if the wanted to use one of those 2 existing bridges. I don’t think the northern bridge has been used since Grand Central Station was torn down.
@@TommyJohnson-ms8pb They (Amtrak) “say” there’s enough distance between Roosevelt Road and the SCAL to build a ramp. (I’m too lazy to do the math.) The northern B&OCT structure would most likely be completely/partially torn down in the process. And then there’s the matter of the SCAL drawbridge. It will need a huge ($$$$$$) amount of work or a total replacement.
This kinda makes more sense because to get to Grand Crossing is more of a straight shot south from Union Station, though it has to go through the NS service yards. It seems to me that it would be less costly to build a ramp and junction there.
Nice to see someone that knows a little about Chicago. The Air Line lift bridge that is out of service was the Soo Line track that went into the Soo Terminal Distribution Center, now a shopping market,. the C.T.A train in the beginning is the Orange Line 'L" train and the"J" is now part of the C.N.R.R, and was the Elgin Joliet and Eastern owned by U.S.Steel that is now used as a Chicago by pass, but you sounded good anyway
It's the same way in New Orleans, all trains usually hit a wye and back into the station. When the train is serviced and ready it will leave out forward. If the trains are late, most times they will pull directly into the station and get turned while being served and backed into the station.
At Pittsburgh, the Pennsylvanian is wyed during servicing, or about forty five minutes after arrival.
With the new trainsets in the offing, the manoeuvre should be unnecessary, good news for NS and AVR, who are keen on turning the wye into a bicycle trail.
ALL trains arriving in NOL go straight in and have done so for a couple of years.
If the train is running late, they will pull in instead of using the wye.
The long-distance trains have to back into LA Union Station as well, since it's a terminal station.
If you americans would build trains with two cabs at both ends, like the rest of the world does it, you wouldn't need to turn a train, that can run at the same speed in both directions anyway!
The other thing that I note about this route is that most of the junctions seem to be at grade. This has got to be one of those lines that is often delayed.
Not particularly. These are hardly busy mainline junctions, since CN has the former EJ&E line around Chicago.
The CN mail line runs above grade with no crossings or foreign railroad junctions from 16th Street all the way to Stuenkel (end of the line for Metra Electric) in far south suburban University Park.
US passenger trains routes are pretty complicated
Yeah, the passenger trains have to figure out how to work around the freight trains.
Amtrak here in Central ca has a line that goes toward northbound but backwards southbound
Hey, thanks for the information! I'm a lifelong Chicagoan and, while I've filmed in Union Station a number of times on films and TV shows, I've never taken a ride on Amtrak... sigh sigh
Which METRA services go to Union Station?
@@295g295 Milwaukee District, Burlington are the main ones. And a couple of minor ones I cannot think of the names though
What?! When and if you have the time consider taking a trip on one of the long distance trains. The unique experience and scenery makes it a journey worth taking at least once.
The 🚉 the IC used before it got rerouted to Union was Central 🚉 where the Museum Campus/11th Street 🚉 is currently @ & prior to Central 🚉, there was Great Central which is where Millennium is currently @
I thought so. Because I thought that the Illinois Central couldn’t get a right of way into Chicago, so it built trestles out in the lake up to where Millenium station is now. And eventually, the city built landfill out to and passed that right away.
Thanks for the insight on the routes! I live in the Central Station neighborhood and the Amtrak/CN lines run through the east end of our part of the city. Usually they're freight trains but a couple times a day we see Amtrak trains, and I had the feeling one of them was the City of New Orleans.
Amtrak's Hiawatha & Empire Builder could benefit from a more convenient transfer station at Mayfair to the CTA. Presently, there's the Amtrak stop at Glenview, then continues south on past Mayfair to Union Station. What if a traveler arrives at O'Hare airport and wants to take the Hiawatha north to Milwaukee? There's no easy method to get there by rail, even though they could, if a new Amtrak stop was created at CTA's Mayfair location.
It's a good thought, but wouldn't this traveler be far more likely to just fly to Milwaukee?
Doing the reverse though (flying to Milwaukee and taking the train to Chicago) is easy, and attractive since MKE is such a nice airport.
Frequent buses to Milwaukee from O'Hare exist, and 294 through to 94 is mostly freeflowing enough the trip from O'Hare to Mayfair would negate time savings.
@@genevarailfan3909 At least for international flights, Chicago O'Hare is much more likely to be seen as an intermediate travel destination, vs. Milwaukee. Flying into Chicago from London Gatwick, and final destination La Crosse, Wisconsin, as a northwards random example. Or Battle Creek, Michigan, going south & east.
@@RVail623That's a good point, though for an international trip like that the 40m ride to Union Station isn't going to make a big difference over a 25m ride to Glenview. Especially since for Battle Creek you'd have to go to Union anyway.
@@genevarailfan3909 If you're talking about a taxi ride from O'Hare to Glenview, that wouldn't be cheap. Taking CTA from O'Hare to Mayfair, then transfer right there to a northbound Amtrak train would seem to be more convenient as well as less expensive.
the same thing happens in San Antonio at the their union station on the Texas eagle on the way to Chicago because it needs to reverse backwards past the alamodome before they can go forward onto the correct track towards San Marcos otherwise the train will be on the track towards Houston which is the way used by sunset limited
Really interesting! As a regular South Shore Line & Metra Electric rider, this was pretty fascinating
Thank you. Last May my sister and i did a sibling trip to Memphis riding on the City of New Orleans. It was dark when we left and i could not figure out how we turned around. Now i know. Thanks
You're welcome!
The last time I took that line, we did the back-out to BNSF at Halsted Street; I remember the reversal was in the Halsted Street station.
Cool! That would have been before the drawbridge was taken out of service.
The GM&O North & southbound at 3:40 is also a route we use on these trains. Thats the route to STL. Carbondale trains will go beyond the control point called "Cermak" and then pull towards 21st St Interlocker. The route you went in this video is called "new connection". The airline is between Union Ave on the BNSF, up and over the yard and river and ends at 16th st. The track you are on here from 16th st to Mccormak Place is not the airline. The run time is not 15 minutes. The run time from the post to 16th St is 12 minutes. The ramp from 16th st down to the yard would still take 3 or 4 minutes, so the savings for an outbound train is 8 minutes or so. The run time from 16th St to the post on an inbound train is 15 minutes, this is due to slower speeds shoving onto the platform and having to perform a tail hose test before beginning the shove move. So inbounds would save 10 minutes or so. The big benefit to the ramp being built is the ability to move STL trains to Metra Rock Island and get them off the CN Joliet Sub ex GM&O gauntlet
Thanks for the added information!
I meant to say the “saved run time” will not be 15 minutes, whoops!
Ive always thought metra should figure out a way to connect all of its stations downtown
Metra's CEO agrees with you, based on some recent comments. Something like "We'd like a thru station downtown, but can't demolish buildings or build tunnels to do that. So we're going to have to get creative."
Try going into Montreal Central Station ;)
Years ago, I thought the St. Charles Air Line was slated for destruction in some plan. I thought it didn't make sense because it was the only connection between the west side and the former IC tracks.
Under the original CREATE scheme the SCAL was to be razed and trains rerouted. This was championed by Mayor Daley II but he’s not a factor anymore.
Arent the draw bridges also landmarks that cannot be removed?
@@PRHILL9696 They are not on the list of National Historic Landmarks. Maybe something local? In any case they will either have to be maintained to keep from becoming a hazard or removed.
@@maestromecanico597 Yeah, I am not sure. I was told that is why the one draw bridge that is never used is still there and just raised all the time as they cannot tear it down as it is a landmark . Same for the rail road bridge downtown by Kinzie street. But, I do not know if that is true.
@@PRHILL9696 Apparently the SCAL bridge is on the Chicago list of landmarks. Not so sure about the B&OCT bridge. And although I’d hate to see them go we have to consider future viability for the railroad.
so ... technically is't sth which could be fixed easily with either repairing the old bridge / building a new bridge and a new curve linking both lines? Also when looking at the map and how the area is used, this seems absolutely possible.
We had a similar issue with our airport. It was only served by commuter trains coming from the south, with a branch line splitting from the main line an a sharpe angle. The airport wasn't served by trains coming from the north, proceeding south and into the city. Passengers from there had to get off the train at the previous station and take the direct bus line to the airport. An option, but not very convenient.
Maybe 5 years ago a new 1.4 mile short link was built, connecting the branch line via a turn to the main line in the other direction. The double tracked and electrified link via two bridges and re-arranging some of the existing tracks costs 91 million
If they do build the connecting line, they'd still need to turn the train around (unless they arrive in reverse).
They wouldn't have to turn the train around after arriving forward, because Chicago is the end of the route. After stopping in the station, trains go to the yard to be disassembled, maintained, and reassembled for another (probably different) trip.
Cool video
Is it out of the question to have these trains serve Millennium instead of Union?
Amtrak doesn't currently have any presence at Millennium, and there's not really room to add the offices and services they'd need. Transfers would also be harder, since they'd need a shuttle across to Union.
It would make no sense to have 3 train pairs at a different station from all others.
Note that Randolph / Millennium never hosted intercity trains which terminated at Central Station, 11th Pl at Michigan Ave. near where Museum Campus Station is now.
When Amtrak took over most intercity service it took them over a year to work out the details to move the trains over to CUS, which is why Central stayed open longer.
The storage yard & shops is near CUS.
Finally, Millennium Station is underground and cannot host diesels.
@@filmteknik Union Station is also underground, but you're probably right that Millennium doesn't have the proper ventilation.
@@genevarailfan3909 Union Station is not underground. The area between the two concourses is below a building - there used to be a CUS Concourse Building until it was razed. But the tracks are at ground level as you can see from the river side.
But more to the point in each trainshed north and south there is a vent above each track for its entire length. You can see them from the platforms and walking around outside you can get a good view of them for the south trainshed.
@@filmteknik Technically yes, it is at ground level. But it's below street level, which in Chicago is underground for practical purposes. Only part of the south trainshed doesn't have buildings/streets on top of it, and the entire north trainshed is under streets and buildings.
Having used the Saluki and Illini trains to come home some weekends, and seeing this video now, when will Amtrak just run those as double ended trainsets like the Hiawatha? Seems like it would make more sense...
2016 I remember going over that black metal bridge… too bad it’s no longer working for now. 💯👀💅🏾
I guess nobody thought “maybe let’s build a flyover to link Union to the St Charles Air Line so trains don’t have to reverse”?
As stated in the video, that has been proposed. But things like that take time and money, especially when they have to fit into a tight space.
I'm sure they've thought of that, but there are a few things in the way, like a large ComEd substation and the Chicago River.
Tell me you know nothing about how infrastructure is built and financed without saying that you know nothing about how infrastructure is built and financed. Oh, you already did.
1:30 - Seventy years ago, the Illinois Central terminal was where Millennium Station is now? The *shiney bean* is at Millennium Station?
Central Station (built 1893) was south of Millennium Station, near the modern Museum Campus/11th Street station. It replaced Great Central Station, which was where Millennium is now. The Bean is about a block and a half from Millennium.
Nice video! New subscriber...
30+ years ago, Amtrak had a daily train between Decatur and Chicago that ran east on the NS to Tolono then turned north onto the then IC, now CN tracks to Chicago. It was a 3 car bi-level train set that got pushed (rear coach had a control compartment on the upper level) to Chicago and pulled back. Wondering why they don’t just do this on these trains and avoid all the shoving and direction changes OR, since these Charger locos seem to be so troublesome, just put a locomotive on both ends and make it a bi-directional train set? I get the cost of the loco being a factor but I also recall Amtrak converting some old F40’s into control cars several years ago.
Side note - Assuming the train in the video reversing is the actual City of New Orleans, it’s ironic to me that unit number 59 is on it. I recall that being the train number at least at some point.
The exterior shot of the reversing train is one of the Illinois Service trains (either Illini or Saluki) that uses the same route to get to Carbondale. The interior shots are from the City of New Orleans, train 58/59 (you're right!).
People also want to reroute the Pere Marquette, Blue 💧, Wolverine, Capitol Limited, & Lake Shore Limited to the SJC & take the ⬇️ Shore Line 🛤️ to Michigan, DC, & 🗽/Boston cause the line they currently use is owned by NS who always gives them delays & they’re also trying to reroute both the Lincoln Service & Texas 🦅 through the 🪨🏝️ District cause the Heritage Corridor is owned by CN who always gives them delays
Nice comment, but I don't think too many people are going to get your Rock Island emojis. The Railroad itself went out of business in 1980 and the only current map it's on is Metra's, unless of course you count the Illinois town/city.
As a Limey, when I visited 12 years ago I couldn't understand why the trains don't have a driver's cab at both ends.
Most of the short-distance ones do. There's not much need for that on trains that are running ~1000 miles, with plenty of time to turn around at the end.
But having a cab at the other end wouldn't change the fact that these trains have to change direction.
@@genevarailfan3909 Thank you for that. I remember that we had to reverse into NOLA when we got there. Although if memory serves me correctly it didn't take as long as getting out of Chicago.
Is this a regular passenger service or a tourist attraction?
No wonder everybody drives their car everywhere in the US...
It's a regular service. Fortunately, demand for better passenger trains in the US has been growing.
@@genevarailfan3909Let's hope that it keeps imporving. It is such a convenient way to travel if done correctly.
Germany has gone in the other direction in the last decades, where cost cutting had short term benefits and now we're paying the price for it.
Regular Service, but the heavy Daily traffic south is on a different line (Running through Springfield to St Louis, just about the only profitable line off the coast). City of new Orleans is historical/vacation, and there isn't nearly as much demand from Southern Illinois U (Carbondale to Chicago, though I wouldn't be surprised if some students use it to run home on occasion). The Med school for SIU is in Springpatch anyway.
@@AndrewDederer The Chicago-Carbondale service is patronized enough to warrant two trains each way per day.
I did this train route before and it’s odd too
Lived here over 50 years and never knew any of this! But then Amtrak is about the only train here I have not been on yet
That's the track for Amtrak 319/318 and idk if Amtrak 21/22 has it tho. But I've been on Amtrak 319/318!
319/318 and 21/22 don't use this route. They use the line seen at 3:36. Though they do go in and out of Union Station on the same track past the yards, of course.
For time is not an issue. The more time siting on a train is all bonus time.
Definitely true for you and me, but not for most of the passengers.
A train is never going backwards when the locomotive is a push-pull model, which can push or pull with a flip of a switch
Nice video work. Full frame camera?
Thanks! The camera's nothing fancy. Bottom-of-the-line iPhone for the exterior shots, and an old Nikon DSLR with its standard lens for the onboard.
I have ridden both routes South…
The inefficiency makes my blood boil. No wonder why ridership is relatively low
I've always wondered, can trains have a locomotive on each end and just use the engine on the side they want to go?
Some trains do, but in this case it would be a lot more cost than benefit. Having to stop, change direction, and make tight curves is more time-consuming than simply running backwards.
@@genevarailfan3909 but the train already needs to stop and change direction now right?
@@Laura-li6ry Yes, and having a locomotive at the rear wouldn't change that.
This cannot be safe. Where is the train being driven from. What happens if something/someone is on the line? Are there controls at the back of the train?
There's a conductor on the back end calling signals and distances to the engineer, also should have their hand on the emergency brake if needed. Happens everyday, everywhere.
That's right--it's a standard procedure. I'm assume that's also the reason why the train was moving fairly slowly in reverse.
An interesting video, it's been 44 years since I was in the Windy City riding Amtrak. However, a suggestion. When crossing Chicago streets, could you name them. I think I figured it all out from the OpenRailwayMap but some more specific pointers would help, it would help those of us from Down Under follow the video! I think I ID'd S Canal St and S State St. That's a cool map by the way, haven't seen it before!
That's a good idea!
Does the train itself knows that it is moving backward? If no, what difference will it make if the engine is placed ahead of the coaches to drag it forward in its backward mode?
You could do that, but it would add more switching moves (time) to bring the engine back to the front of the train for the main part of the trip. It's more practical to just have the conductor stand at the back while the train reverses.
So i'm going to assume something here by your channel name. You are a rail fan and you might live in or around Geneva IL. If so great as I live not to far from the UP West line in Wheaton/Winfield area. At the 6:35 time mark how is it your travel companion does not know what is beyond the tree line past Solider Field.
My travel companion had only really visited Chicago once before. And she doesn't spend nearly as much time looking at maps as I do!
Yeah I don’t t get that Trains moving backwards Yeah why is that ?
Are push/pull services not all that common in the US then? Seems like a way to make infrastructure improvements simpler as the train could simply be driven from the non motor end rather than having to change directions so that the loco is at the front again.
Push-pull services are common, but it's not common for long distance trains to have to go backwards for reasons other than turning around.
@@genevarailfan3909 lest we forget Oakland, where all long distance trains run backwards in one direction or another
With operations like this, trains will never be attractive in the US.
You may be right. That's why improving the Chicago hub is one of Amtrak's big priorities right now.
@@genevarailfan3909 thank you for your reply
@@genevarailfan3909 You could also just improve your trains. Why do they still have only one cab per train? Diesel and Electric trains don't know a "front" direction anymore, because they are not run by cylinders that can only effectively put their energy onto the wheels in one direction, like you had it with Steam. You only need to switch a button and what was back is now front.
Each route takes approximately the same amount of time and both routes have been in use for many decades. This is nothing new!
It is no wonder that rail transportation, particularly rail passenger transportation, is so cost-ineffective in North America! Presumably, at an earlier time when a proper connection could have been designed so as to provide maximum operating flexibility (and redundancy in case of outages), and this at minimal cost then, it is most likely that some financial "bean-counter" claimed that this would "never be necessary". The unfortunate consequence of this is that peoples with such a lack of vision pay no price for their decision. Flexibility is NOT a luxury in a constantly evolving world. 2024/04/11. Ontario, Canada.
Interesting subject, but needs _far more map integration_ to be comprehensible to anyone not a local of Chicago proper. The window view footage gives a nice human touch but would much benefit from a map inset or overlay, _Indiana Jones_ style perhaps.
That would have been great! But unfortunately a "real" video editing program that could do that is out of the budget right now. Maybe if the channel gets monetized eventually.
@@genevarailfan3909 - exactly! need an Indiana Jones BUDGET for Indiana jones effects in video!
I take it that Amtrak doesn't have enough engines to have one at each end so they wouldn't have to waste time backing out?
If they did that, they'd still have to waste time for the engineer to walk through the train to the other engine. It also would be a waste of an engine to use it for such a short section of a long distance route.
@@genevarailfan3909 there is no time wasted walking to the other engine since that would be done during the time passenger's are getting off/on the train.
The other option to using a second engine is to add a car at the end with a driver cab. That would also prevent wasting time backing up.
@andymcdandycdn6808I would think that would be safer, too.
There are no passengers getting on or off at the point where the train changes direction.
There's not a big safety difference, since the conductor stands at the rear of the train for the reverse move, and is able to apply the brakes if needed.
Why not just rebuild the old station?
Mainly because there are other buildings on that location now, including a commuter station. There's not room to add baggage, waiting, etc. for long distance trains there, and transfers would be harder since nearly all the other trains would still be at Union Station.
There's a wye by the yard in Chicago that's why they go backwards
These trains don't use it though. As the video explains, they used to, but now it's not usable.
A map would be handy. You showed us the route they don't take but not the route they do.
I showed the route they do use at least once (at 4:46).
@@genevarailfan3909 i see it now. That bottom reversal was hard to see.
... and as a European I just wonder, why they just don't use two locomotives for each side, then they wouldn't have to care. But well, this is the USA, when it comes to trains you still operate them as if we have the 1930s with steam
That would mean using a second locomotive (and a bunch of fuel) to slightly simplify one mile or less of a 900 mile (1450km) trip! That would be very wasteful.
@@genevarailfan3909 What about a Cab Car?
@@maas1208 That wouldn't help, because the train still has to change direction. The delay isn't because it's going backwards, the delay is because it has to change direction and take a circuitous route.
This potentially and partially informative video needs to display with a map the entire route of the "wonky" detour prior to the Chicago River crossing -and why does the video end with an inbound segment?
There are maps shown: 2:25 for the old route and 4:45 for the current route.
It ends with an inbound segment because the train has to use this maneuver in both directions, and I used my outbound footage earlier in the video.
Why not just build city center tunnels?
For one thing the locations of the station, river, and existing subway lines would make routing a new tunnel very difficult. For another, it wouldn't make sense to invest in building new infrastructure when there's existing infrastructure that can just be repaired and upgraded.
because americans would rather spend money on personal automobiles
This man has a very tolerant family. A lot of people would have put him out the door...
Do you really mean "wonky". I've reseached the meaning in both US and UK English and they are the same; unstable.
That's one definition of several. I was going for "Out of alignment; crooked" and "crazy" definitions.
Some alderman/congressperson probably didn't get bribed to get that bridge repair funding...jk...? Amtrak is the 'red headed step-child' of transportation
It's Chicago. If something is getting done, somebody probably got bribed.
Make Passenger Rail Travel Great Again!!
Let's just make it profitable so my tax dollars can be spent elsewhere.
Then make sure you utilize their services!
Amtrak came really close to an operating profit in 2019. Let's keep riding so that can become normal!
@@raylrodr I prefer my car. I'm not squeezing onto a car that smells of disappointment and poor hygiene. And I can carry my pistol, and drive anywhere I want to go.
@@genevarailfan3909 they haven't once turned a profit. I think the tax dollars would be better utilized elsewhere. It's time they stood or fall on their own. If they concentrate on the busiest routes and cut the less utilized lines instead of trying to expand they would likely do much better.
Why is it called the saint Charles air line and the one in Florida called the seaboard air line .I am a new rail fan.My father worked foe Southern Pacific so my childhood was wonderfully full of trains and I am now seeing how wonderful it was.
It was originally intended to run to the Mississippi River via the town of St. Charles. At that time, railroads would use the term "air line" to say that they had a very straight and direct "as the crow flies" route, rather than winding between hills and along rivers. Construction of the line never made it out of downtown Chicago though.
@genevarailfan3909 thanks for the info .Jonny cash has a song called the orange blossom special about the seaboard air line
Southern Illinois native here. I've never been to Chicago, and it looks really dingy. I have been to NYC, and it seems to be a lot more clean and cheerful.
I've been to SIU for a graduation ceremony, it was dingy there. This was posted 2 weeks ago it looks like. That's March otherwise called still winter in Chicago so cold and grey. Not sure how you can judge dingyness if you never have been to said place.
@robm3063 Just observing. Graffiti everywhere, crumbling infrastructure, etc. At least they still have industry, all of our jobs are gone now.
Well, the outdoor footage was shot in November, and the onboard was last March, but your point about winter stands. Chicago is definitely dingy though, especially that part of it.
Not all of Chicago is that dingy. The north side of Chicago is really nice, and compared to NYC, rent is actually affordable in Chicago, whereas in New York, you are either destined to live in a closet or with 10 other people.
@@Crazy___Ginger Just of interest, what would you consider affordable on the North Side?
Everything in Chicago is wonky
In "communist europe" there are control coaches, where the operator can sit and the locomotive is remotely controlled.
some modern trains even are bi- directional.
Chicago has hundreds of those on commuter trains, and Amtrak uses them on some shorter routes that have less time to turn a train around.
That wouldn't benefit these trains though--the problem isn't that the train needs a second cab to help it back up, but that the train has to change direction and loop around.
Amtrak needs to get rid of Chicago as a hub. The employees are lazy and surly. Everything should go through St. Louis with new employees.
The location is fantastic for them. However I could concede that the shops should be moved to like Gary or something, though of course that would rack up excessive hostler bills, and Norfolk Southern would be less than ecstatic to quadruple traffic on their line.
Makes complete sense to reshuffle the entire network because someone was mean to you. And then when someone in St. Louis looks at you funny, you can recenter the Midwest routes in, I don't know, let's say Pittsburgh. Very sensible way to make decisions.
@@de-fault_de-fault I am not opposed to basing the network in Pittsburgh 😄. Ever since US Air left, I can’t really get anywhere anymore. Rebuild the Panhandle and Buffalo and Pittsburgh, it’ll be great. Then again, our station would need more than a single platform, and the yard is in Conway, and NS again would love to have nothing to do with it.
Location-wise, you can't really get a better location than Chicago. Huge population center with major rail infrastructure already existing.
I haven't had an issue with the employees, though maybe it depends on the time of day. I could certainly believe that it's hard to find good workers in Chicago.
In the airline industry, a hub often is unprofitable, if it doesn't generate a substantial amount or origination and destination traffic (O&D).
TWA and Delta both scaled back operations at O'Hare because of delays and American and United both amassing more gate space.
TWA and Delta learned the hard way that their mid-continent hubs, St. Louis and Cincinnati, respectively, did not generate as much O&D traffic as Chicago
It would be the same if Amtrak tried to move its Midwest hub to St. Louis. St. Louis is a much smaller metro area.