I guess everyone is talking about Comandante measurements where the zero is from the tighest point turned to the end, and not the point zero recommended by Comandante.
Thanks for sharing a new recipe! It is always funny to try especially when you explain why you do what you do because imho the most important thing is to understand the impact of each parameter ! Keep up the good work ;)
I see that you recommend using finer grain coffee for darker roast (25 clicks v.s. 30 clicks for light roast). What is the reason? Wouldn't that extract more bitterness from dark roast coffee?
No if you also decrease the water temp to, for example, 85ºC. In general, a lower water temp leads to a slower flow rate, thus lengthening your brew time. This effect, however, is sometimes not very "effective," meaning it would not slow down the flow rate as much as you might think it would, at least for a darker roast. What you want to do here is to maintain an identical average brew time for all roast levels, as this is very important if you want to keep the mouthfeel slightly heavier if you're using this much water (15g water for 1g coffee) to brew your coffee. The water will just flush faster and produce a weaker cup if you use 30 clicks for a darker roast. If you would like to brew with a coarser grind size for your darker roasts, aim for a method that would generally end with a longer brew time (longer than 2'30," generally 3+ min). A very common Japanese old-school brewing technique is to lengthen the brew time, in order to mimic the "syphon-like" flavor profile, that is, more prone to the immersion rather than percolation (flavor-wise). The way they do it is quite similar to the latest April video th-cam.com/video/qZJKt9oe9-Q/w-d-xo.html , where only a few amount of water is used for the "blooming." They lengthen the "bloom time" in order for all the ground to get wet properly. Then, they speed up the percolation process by increasing the amount of water in every pour. This will generally produce a slightly lower EY% (because the slurry temp is lower throughout the brewing process). So in order to compensate for the lower EY%, one would try to brew with a shorter ratio (less amount of water to the ground), to increase the strength.
A very interesting thing to learn about the old-school Japanese brewing technique is that, for a lighter roast, they would generally grind the coffee slightly FINER and brew with a higher temperature. The way they do this is also to keep the same brew time for all roast levels. The reason they do it in a totally opposite way is greatly determined by the technique itself. With just fewer amount of water poured during the long blooming, the degassing will probably be not as much as the technique shown in this video. If you do a side-by-side comparison of the two techniques, what you will see is that after the bloom, the Japanese method generally produces more gas than the April method. I believe this is due to two reasons: (1) The more water for the bloom, the more effective the degassing. (2) The Japanese method generally uses "tender" water (slightly less agitation) for the blooming, which inhibits a more aggressive degassing process. So, for the Japanese method with a light roast, the bean structure is too dense for the water to penetrate and activates effective degassing. And you would use a finer grind size to degas better. In general, if you're using 30 clicks on Comandante for a dark roast, you would probably use 24-26 clicks for a light roast.
Sorry for my newbie question but I'm quite confusing, more click for comandante mean coarser, or not? So, if I want it's finer for darker roast, I need no use less click right?
Hey how would you adjust if you were making two cups of coffee (let’s say 500g water). Does the time or temperature or grind size change? Really appreciate your insight!
Did you also use a higher dose because you are using a cone filter? I remember in the original Origami video you used 12 grams with a flat bottom filter
Are you sure that the drawdown time is faster than the V60 ? I thougt that it is slower due to the way the ribs and paper contact each other. It is for me also strange to go finer for dark roast. I thought it must be the opposite to grind coarser. What is the idea behind this ?
@coffeewithapril Thanks. 🤝☕️I usually follow TALES COFFEE with the single pour-over method, chopstick to stir, and so forth, but I like watching others, too. The bloom is really for gassy beans, and you don't need to bloom for them. Gassy beans have more flavor since they're fresher, as he says. I normally get beans that aren't gassed, not purposely, but thankfully I've found an online store in Lazada that sells freshly roasted beans, and I've ordered two bags (one is an Xmas blend [hehe]). They say to let the beans degas for two weeks before using them, but I'll hard pass on that, even though degassed beans are good. Lol. Shalom.
Would you recommend 29 on Baratza encore grinder? I thought with the fast flow rate you would want it finer... I've been grinding 20 on Baratza for chemex maybe i've been grinding way to fine...
@Matt Cronin I bought my encore recently it has grind size 0-40, not sure if theres different versions. I looked up the chart on their website at baratza.com/grinding-tips/, they recommend 15 for v60 and 20 for chemex, I have been using 18 for Origami and 20 for chemex myself after couple try.
@Matt Cronin Not different versions, but different calibrations! I've calibrated mine to its finest setting as I don't usually use the french press level coarse grind
Hi Patrick, I love your video about brewing and changing regards to how its roasted. Here is a question, you mentioned a few time in your video about darker roast needs to grind finer to compensate the overall brewing time. But darker normally means easier to extract, would we want it go a bit faster to avoid any over extraction? Thank you
The coffee goes through a de-gassing process for the first 18 days after roast. Often the coffee taste becomes "cleaner" and the coffee brews up more consistently after the first 10 days. However, this might differ depending on the roast level of the coffee.
@@coffeewithapril yes i noticed a huge difference between drinking a day after it was roasted and a week. I do notice that it just taste better. I didnt know why though, thanks for the clarification.
Didn't you mention previously that smaller brews are better because the thinner the coffee bed, the more even the extraction? Basically the opposite of what you're saying here.
Why is it recommended to use a finer grind for darker roasts? With them extracting easier, I would have thought a coarser grind (and thus less brew time) would be required for an ideal extraction.
They are actually not extracting easier, at least not the positive taste notes. The reason for the finer grind size is that the water flow is naturally faster the darker the coffee is roasted.
@@coffeewithapril Confusion too. But could understan the idea that increase the resistance. So maybe depand how dark the bean is. Will try two directions and see.
@@greysuit17 300mL brew typically only ends up with ~270mL in the cup, definitely more of a small/medium coffee. 200mL brew would be very small, less than 8oz.
You are right, what they should say "we found that in our kettle when we use water heated to 92C produces the best result". Because as you saw they heat the water and don't put it back to the heater, so the only time water is 92C is in the beginning. Also, usually, people provide a range for temperature, because it really affects no taste. Higher the temperature more you will extract,.
Love the commandante details. Just brewed this recipe and it rocks.
What's the grind size on EK43 ?
@@andrep4678 if u still wondering, C40 30 clicks roughly equals to 7.5 on EK43
I guess everyone is talking about Comandante measurements where the zero is from the tighest point turned to the end, and not the point zero recommended by Comandante.
@@zizz956 How many clicks c40 to équal 6,5 ek43 ? Thank you to your answer
@@nicolasbeauvais7502 That I'm not sure tbh, and each EK is slightly different due to calibration, sorry
I'm liking the annotated time line for different points in the brew! I hope to see more of that from coffee videos. :)
Thanks for sharing a new recipe! It is always funny to try especially when you
explain why you do what you do because imho the most important thing is to understand
the impact of each parameter !
Keep up the good work ;)
Great brewer. Never fails.
I see that you recommend using finer grain coffee for darker roast (25 clicks v.s. 30 clicks for light roast). What is the reason? Wouldn't that extract more bitterness from dark roast coffee?
No if you also decrease the water temp to, for example, 85ºC. In general, a lower water temp leads to a slower flow rate, thus lengthening your brew time. This effect, however, is sometimes not very "effective," meaning it would not slow down the flow rate as much as you might think it would, at least for a darker roast. What you want to do here is to maintain an identical average brew time for all roast levels, as this is very important if you want to keep the mouthfeel slightly heavier if you're using this much water (15g water for 1g coffee) to brew your coffee. The water will just flush faster and produce a weaker cup if you use 30 clicks for a darker roast.
If you would like to brew with a coarser grind size for your darker roasts, aim for a method that would generally end with a longer brew time (longer than 2'30," generally 3+ min). A very common Japanese old-school brewing technique is to lengthen the brew time, in order to mimic the "syphon-like" flavor profile, that is, more prone to the immersion rather than percolation (flavor-wise). The way they do it is quite similar to the latest April video th-cam.com/video/qZJKt9oe9-Q/w-d-xo.html , where only a few amount of water is used for the "blooming." They lengthen the "bloom time" in order for all the ground to get wet properly. Then, they speed up the percolation process by increasing the amount of water in every pour. This will generally produce a slightly lower EY% (because the slurry temp is lower throughout the brewing process). So in order to compensate for the lower EY%, one would try to brew with a shorter ratio (less amount of water to the ground), to increase the strength.
A very interesting thing to learn about the old-school Japanese brewing technique is that, for a lighter roast, they would generally grind the coffee slightly FINER and brew with a higher temperature. The way they do this is also to keep the same brew time for all roast levels. The reason they do it in a totally opposite way is greatly determined by the technique itself. With just fewer amount of water poured during the long blooming, the degassing will probably be not as much as the technique shown in this video. If you do a side-by-side comparison of the two techniques, what you will see is that after the bloom, the Japanese method generally produces more gas than the April method. I believe this is due to two reasons: (1) The more water for the bloom, the more effective the degassing. (2) The Japanese method generally uses "tender" water (slightly less agitation) for the blooming, which inhibits a more aggressive degassing process.
So, for the Japanese method with a light roast, the bean structure is too dense for the water to penetrate and activates effective degassing. And you would use a finer grind size to degas better. In general, if you're using 30 clicks on Comandante for a dark roast, you would probably use 24-26 clicks for a light roast.
If they use a coarser grind for a light roast, it will take more time for the brew to be as strong due to the bad efficiency of degassing.
Fascinating and much appreciated upload. Thanks
Sorry for my newbie question but I'm quite confusing, more click for comandante mean coarser, or not?
So, if I want it's finer for darker roast, I need no use less click right?
Thank you for watching. Yes, that is correct
Hey how would you adjust if you were making two cups of coffee (let’s say 500g water). Does the time or temperature or grind size change? Really appreciate your insight!
Did you also use a higher dose because you are using a cone filter? I remember in the original Origami video you used 12 grams with a flat bottom filter
Are you sure that the drawdown time is faster than the V60 ? I thougt that it is slower due to the way the ribs and paper contact each other. It is for me also strange to go finer for dark roast. I thought it must be the opposite to grind coarser. What is the idea behind this ?
The reason for the finer grind size is that the water flow is naturally faster the darker the coffee is roasted.
@coffeewithapril Thanks. 🤝☕️I usually follow TALES COFFEE with the single pour-over method, chopstick to stir, and so forth, but I like watching others, too. The bloom is really for gassy beans, and you don't need to bloom for them. Gassy beans have more flavor since they're fresher, as he says. I normally get beans that aren't gassed, not purposely, but thankfully I've found an online store in Lazada that sells freshly roasted beans, and I've ordered two bags (one is an Xmas blend [hehe]). They say to let the beans degas for two weeks before using them, but I'll hard pass on that, even though degassed beans are good. Lol. Shalom.
Do you all have any recommendations for modifying this recipe for Kalita? Hoping to compare flavors to v60.
We do have a Kalita Video as well.
@@coffeewithapril Thank you - been loving your origami dripper videos!
if i want to brew more cups of coffee , how many beans i should prepare
Would you recommend 29 on Baratza encore grinder? I thought with the fast flow rate you would want it finer... I've been grinding 20 on Baratza for chemex maybe i've been grinding way to fine...
It sounds like 20 would be very fine. I would recommend using a coarser grind size on a chemex than on the Origami.
@Matt Cronin I bought my encore recently it has grind size 0-40, not sure if theres different versions. I looked up the chart on their website at baratza.com/grinding-tips/, they recommend 15 for v60 and 20 for chemex, I have been using 18 for Origami and 20 for chemex myself after couple try.
@Matt Cronin Not different versions, but different calibrations! I've calibrated mine to its finest setting as I don't usually use the french press level coarse grind
In the original origami, it was a small dose like your new V60 recipe, any reason for that ?
Hi Patrick, I love your video about brewing and changing regards to how its roasted. Here is a question, you mentioned a few time in your video about darker roast needs to grind finer to compensate the overall brewing time. But darker normally means easier to extract, would we want it go a bit faster to avoid any over extraction? Thank you
We would say that a darker roast is always more difficult to extract as you have to avoid getting the bad stuff from the roast in the cup.
Why do you let it sit for 2 weeks? Someone told me one week but i never understood what happens within that time frame.
The coffee goes through a de-gassing process for the first 18 days after roast. Often the coffee taste becomes "cleaner" and the coffee brews up more consistently after the first 10 days. However, this might differ depending on the roast level of the coffee.
@@coffeewithapril yes i noticed a huge difference between drinking a day after it was roasted and a week. I do notice that it just taste better. I didnt know why though, thanks for the clarification.
@@timothybracken1728 properly degassed coffee extracts better because the degassing is minimal when water goes through them during extraction.
Didn't you mention previously that smaller brews are better because the thinner the coffee bed, the more even the extraction?
Basically the opposite of what you're saying here.
We still believe that but that doesn't mean that we don't also brew larger brews.
What temperature would you recommend for light roast, medium roast and dark roast?
We would lower the temperature the darker the coffee is roasted.
Hi great video! Thanks for the info.
Wonder is this method suitable for 13g dose? Thanks!!
Sure, you can play around with the same concept on different ratios.
So brewing with higher watertemperature gives more body ?
Gives a less acidic coffee
Have you ever used the original origami filters? And what are your thoughts? I just ordered my origami, can’t wait to experiment :)
How many clicks for Commamdamte for this recipe ? 24 is okey ?
Why is it recommended to use a finer grind for darker roasts? With them extracting easier, I would have thought a coarser grind (and thus less brew time) would be required for an ideal extraction.
They are actually not extracting easier, at least not the positive taste notes. The reason for the finer grind size is that the water flow is naturally faster the darker the coffee is roasted.
@@coffeewithapril Confusion too. But could understan the idea that increase the resistance. So maybe depand how dark the bean is. Will try two directions and see.
Start brewing 2 weeks after roast? Uh,...what?
Yes, that is our minimum resting time in our own store and what we recommend with all of our coffees.
Is this the Small or Medium Origami dripper?
Medium.
Tanta ciencia, mi madre hace café colado sin medir nada y con el mismo colador desde que era niño xD.... Igual buen video, saludos.
Is that origami S or origami M ?
Standard size.
this is the Large size. There is no standard just small and large.
Great video! But since when has 300ml been a larger brew huh. That's not even enough for 1 cup of coffee
Thank you for watching. We normally brew single cups at 200ml.
300ml is a good amount for a cup. My local cafe does 310ml.
@@greysuit17 300mL brew typically only ends up with ~270mL in the cup, definitely more of a small/medium coffee. 200mL brew would be very small, less than 8oz.
@@Riverpeth it brews a great coffee though... you want quantity or quality?
Why attempt to brew at a specific Water temp if it doesnt stay constant?
Even an electric kettle isn't accurate to 1 degree.
You are right, what they should say "we found that in our kettle when we use water heated to 92C produces the best result". Because as you saw they heat the water and don't put it back to the heater, so the only time water is 92C is in the beginning.
Also, usually, people provide a range for temperature, because it really affects no taste. Higher the temperature more you will extract,.
Also a total rebel so i use my kinto scs 01 dripper with v60 paper 01 bleached. :) ☮️
I didn’t know Jesus can turn water into coffee
Is he trying to look like Jesus on purpose? I think yes
I hate that this Chanel only post brewchampionship recipe