Be safe at Oshkosh! Follow the rules! I hope to see you there! Find out the DEADLY Truth About The Dallas Airshow Crash 👉th-cam.com/video/OFwoExC__MQ/w-d-xo.html
All these effing GoPros should be prohibited from anything from a kite to a fucking Anotov. Or have your flight status revoked permanently. That means forever.
People are saying the guy should be banned. No the gyro guy should be in jail. He did something dangerous that he was specifically told not to do and got someone killed. It is not an accident, his reckless behavior killed 2 people.
Yes it says something about the reality of so many people doing things that require skill discipline & good judgement it's logical to expect one will not play by the rules, if they could have grounded him after he was first caught doing the 360 degree turns in the pattern maybe this doesn't happen.
To me this is manslaughter by Eric, he has done this before and knew it was wrong and then did it again anyway and ended up killing someone. Dude should be in prison.
Hey Hoover. From an ex military jet pilot (RAF UK) and airlines A380, and an instructor in both, your work here is just outstanding. Keep it up as it’s very informative for many and high class, in depth analysis that always has a well balanced opinion on the inevitable outcomes. Real class, very well done!
@@foobarmaximus3506 HAHAHA, I note and get your sarcasm. I too am sarcastic by nature, but adminsparkes2450 is spot on. So do you see truth as "ass-kissin", IF that was the suggestion of "slurp"? If I misinterpreted your comment, please expound. Respectfully, TH
@@timothyhardin-vn9ke don't worry, he's just a sorry troll, these people are so miserable and self loathing that the thought of others appreciating someone else's work sounds absurd
I truly can't get my head round this! They were briefed, they were told, no 360 in the traffic pattern. He did a 360 and the results were two dead. Thats manslaughter.
@@wcate8301 I agree. He willfully and repeatedly broke officially instituted rules, despite being warned not to and explained the risks. He knew the dangers and handwaved them away. That is the literal definition of involuntary manslaughter.
@@bulbazoth6473..." what a joke of a country" Say that on front of someone that's fought to defend it....Asshole. If we had a functional legal system Comrade Bone Spurs would have been convicted of fraud and tax evasion before he ever ran for office the first time. The pilot in question could easily go down for negligent homicide / 2nd degree homicide. That's an easy one.
The Gyros were apparently flying like idiots all day and it was brought up in the meeting by Mark and then one of the Gyro pilots causes a fatal crash its not a coincidence. Its simple Eric is a liar and should be permanently banned from Oshkosh.
When bad behavior occurs, there must be immediate consequences. Example: If you do a 360, you are grounded for the rest of the show. You kill someone through negligence, you go to prison. Bad behavior continues to happen when there are no immediate consequences. A hole in the swiss cheese was allowing bad behavior to continue.
I would add grounded and prohibited from taking off to leave until everyone else has left, as they clearly cannot be trusted in the same airspace as others.
There are zero consequences in America for bad behavior. Steal from CVS. Drive without insurance. Illegally enter the country. Drive-by shooting. Poor airmanship. None of those activities gets you more than an adult version of Time Out.
It's not a mistake if the 'illegal' maneuver is done repeatedly; and if there were no recriminations and laughter at a safety briefing...the overseers of the event are culpable and negligent. I get the sense of 'so what'.
I've seen this before but at cross country motorcycle racing. Someone in the back row, beer in hand, snickering & laughing at the idea of safety. After I nailed another racer who had stopped to scratch himself and sent him down a river bank I had had enough. I was never there to win, just for fun & friends. That day was not a fun one.
What did I learn from this video? I learned that I never want to land at OshKosh during EAA. As a pilot, this is something I would love to see, but I'll land somewhere else and drive there.
Years ago , I planned to take my Piper Arrow to Oshkosh.Then my flight instructor told me it was a complete zoo and said he would never into that event.I decided to go to Milwaukee and rent a car. Given that my flight instructor was an RCAF instructor during WW2 , his counseling I never swayed from.
Fly in earlier or don't fly in at all please. If you do not need your plane there, I don't recommend you fly in. Oshkosh is a mess y'all, there are so many accidents happening there.
To me, the staff of Oshkosh are partly to blame. IMO if people are told to stop doing a maneuver and then repeat the same, they should be grounded and among the very last out.
@@miskatonic6210Bold talk for a Oned Jack, you doesnt have a clue.. And only appears ,after the fact as a Monday morning quart back. O. Ya I see by your IP address they dont play foot ball in your country. TROLL.
The dumbest part is that this gyro pilot makes his turn and doesn’t check to see traffic. So,1. Breaks the rule brought up that very day. 2. Initiates an illegal, stupid, show off turn 3. Does nothing to verify clean airspace- just collides with normal traffic which SHOULD BE WHERE HE IS LOOKING- it’s expected to be there!no mystery to this criminally negligent operation.
@@rickhill3071i agree with you. It is always the pilot and NOT the kinda plane you are flying.....i am a gyrocopter pilot by myself.... and i have seen a lot of stupid and dangerous stuff using helicopters or fixed wings .
100% Eric's fault, no questions. He should have *NEVER* done a 360 in the pattern due to the extreme danger it creates. Eric was warned *several* times by other pilots about his reckless behavior. Eric blowed off their warnings, and showed a blatant disregard for safety. In short, Eric was an ignorant self-entitled *brat* who ignored safety rules and procedures. This was not an accident, rather, reckless homicide. Eric should be charged with vehicular manslaughter, tried, found guilty, and sent to prison for his actions. Likewise, the FAA should strip him of his current license, and Eric should be banned from ALL future airshows.
This guy’s comment is spot on. Eric was a reckless selfish cowboy who would not follow rules. This is bad and he should be in jail, and never operate any motor vehicle again.
I was about 500 meters away from the ultralights field when this happened, enjoying the departures on the 36 / 18 flight line. I remember a distinctive and obvious crunch sound, and looked over to see black smoke rising. It was a beautiful day with little to no wind and great weather. It was very sobering, and a good reminder of how important safety will always be in this sport. Rest in peace.
This is why I will never fly in to Oshkosh. There is a crash practically every year. It’s not the controllers, but simply too many aircraft operating in too close proximity
To be clear, this accident happened during Oshkosh 2023. This video also documents the rogue pilot mentality that is pervasive during the Oshkosh airshow history. The FAA has never issued a pilot deviation for any UNSAFE flying or taxing incident during Oshkosh. The FAA publicly admits that they do not give out any pilot deviations during the Oshkosh Airshow. SEE & AVOID is an impossible rule to follow in this crowded sky.
Thought this sounded familiar. Part of the purpose and thrill is to fly "unsafely" and fun, so I think the logic is that you assume the risk and have to judge for yourself if you know what you're doing and can avoid collisions. These are small planes and not large commercial jets so it's easy to maneuver around each other in comparison to airspaces with a lot of commercial activity and in planes that move like syrup (as you'd see in major cities like Chicago and LA). It's still a big ask though! Let's hope everyone stays safe this week.
Could you imagine if the FAA *_did_* give out pilot deviations during Oshkosh? They'd need a completely separate frequency where a continuously-looping recorded message reads out the telephone number, and any pilot being given a deviation would be just told to QSY to that frequency and write down the number. But that's not all of it - what happens when a whole lot of people call the number? The FAA would need an entire call centre just to handle all the incoming calls and give out the stern warnings, etc. Just organising such a system would be a massive operation, let alone actually running it. 🤣🤣🤣
Also keep in mind that air shows attract exactly the kind of stupid people who want to show off. Safety minded people are more likely to stay far away from a giant mess like that.
Eric needs to be charged with 2 counts of negligent homicide. I'm so fed up with self-entitled a--holes (whether on the road or in the air) being allowed to get away with such dangerous behavior!
when a kid back in the 50ties my dad was glider pilot and the gyros were causing problems at el mirage in calif-every time we were out there a gyro crashed and killed someone--a lot of drunk pilots it seemed like
@@Ziggy_MoonglowI think the point everyone is trying to make here is that, it’s not the old saying “a few bad apples, etc.”, but that MOST (or ALL) gyro pilots don’t adhere to the briefings & rules… Either ur not a pilot or English is a 2nd language, which is understandable by taking the term “gyros” literally to mean just the machine… After all, EVERYONE knows machines don’t fly themselves YET…
So…. GyroEric flies his toy gyro less than 30 minutes and causes an accident that kills 2 people? What would be the consequences for a typical auto driver doing the same thing with a car? I find this display of arrogance equivalent to street racer, driving stupid, in LA who killed 2 people, a half hour away from his/her home.
@@Meh-j9s Oh gawd… if penalties are DEI dependent, then I now associate myself as a transgender, black woman who is bi-sexual, after an amputation (circumcised) with a mental handicap. I’ll be forgiven for whatever I do. Forever and ever, no matter what, or how often I misbehave in society.
In 2023 I made my last flight into KOSH AirVenture. As on all previous flights into AirVenture I studied the Notice exhaustively. It became apparent to me in 2023 that there were people in the pattern who either didn’t read or didn’t understand the Notice or who just willfully disregarded the ATC instructions and procedures contained in the Notice. I was cutoff in the pattern once by someone who cut into the pattern less than 500 feet in front of me from a southerly direction between Green Lake and Ripon, because of spacing, or lack thereof because of the cowboy who cut in from the south i was directed back to the Endeavour Bridge entry point for re-sequencing. On another attempt to land I was cutoff by another aircraft who appeared 200 feet in front of me between Ripon and Fisk from above as I was using the 1800 foot approach and ATC was asking the aircraft coming in on the 2300 foot approach to sequence in at the 1800 foot approach, after another few orbits around Rush lake I was finally able to land safely. That was when I decided that I would never risk my life like that again. My next trips to AirVenture will be to Green Bay or Milwaukee and I will rent a car to go to and from Whitman Field for the show as there is no way to guarantee all pilots will read and follow the procedures.
The evening arrival window is way too short and everyone is flying like they are in rush hour. Who hasn’t been cut off in the Fisk approach by an errant pilot and sent around? ADSB has helped the controllers call out offenders and send them into a hold. Either way, as a pilot it is maddening and dangerous. Maybe they ned to lengthen the window or close off the evening arrival altogether.
2022, the RV’s were notorious for cutting the line, saw it personally twice in front of me, and there were dozens of radio calls calling out RV line jumpers, but ATC really never did much except break people out, which now can cause fuel problems since you have to go back to Endeavor Bridge. I was broken out twice because RVs jumped in front inside Fisk, had to go and get fuel after the second break out. Then, when finally cleared to land was almost hit by a EZ coming in fast under me to land without approval. People really need to practice their slow flight before going to OSH, and learn to follow the NOTAM.
Flying to or at OSH is no light work. It was something to check off the bucket list but flying in once was all I needed to know that I won't be doing it again. Thanks for covering this Hoover.
And all of the over inflated egos I’ve seen commenting would tell you “it’s no big deal” or “just read the notam and it’s fine” which completely negates all the additional risk. I’m an ATP and there’s no way I’d ever fly in there, I’ll drive.
I'm old now and haven't flown in many years but stories like these cause me to recall an incident that happened when I was back in my flying days. Some friends of mine also into aviation decided we should all fly down from Toronto, Ontario, Canada to a huge annual event for aviators called Oshkosh in Wisconsin. This is a huge event with thousands of pilots flying in to attend. One friend was able to get access to a Cessna 310 twin aircraft for this trip. Unknown to me at the time, one of the pilots was twin rated but not IFR rated, the other pilot was IFR rated but NOT twin rated. I was simply a passenger on this trip and did not find out all this until we were well into our flight down to Oshkosh. As it turned out that day the weather was overcast with rain...definitely IFR conditions. As we approached the Oshkosh area things got very hectic with many planes all trying to get into Oshkosh airport in IFR conditions. Listening to the hectic air traffic on the radios it became obvious that our two pilots were struggling with the crazy traffic including holds, pattern changes, vectors, and all while flying in clouds along with many other aircraft in our immediate airspace, To say I was terrified was an understatement. Risk of airborne collision was high for us as our pilots struggled and I so wished I hadn't gotten on this airplane. This went on for an hour and I was praying silently that we would make it in safely, which we finally did. This was my only trip to Oshkosh.
@@mitchelllee879 no I earned all of my gen X points! Have the scars to prove it! Lost count of all the broken bones that I've had years ago. Age brings you in time the ability to be wise, and avoid the the chaos. BTW I have done things that most would never dream of. Time changes your perspective. Been there done did it, now it doesn't matter! Still not going... Plus I don't like the idea of wreckage landing on top of me! Just better to avoid stupid.
Serious question: how did this guy escape criminal charges??? There is no evidence of a radio instruction to him ordering him to do this, he performed a maneuver that was prohibited and problematic, and he caused a crash that killed two people. If you make similar mistakes driving a car, you get charged too. Why not here? Why does Eric Bruce get to skate?
I've heard about Oshkosh and how hard it is to maneuver, this brings it to a new level, following the rules just is a must! Thank you, Hoover, for yet another great Debrief.
Some years ago when I got my training to fly paramotors, I was invited to the Bad Apples Fly-in in Andersonville, Georgia. I got set up for take-off and looked around and there were at least 40 other people preparing to take off. I wondered what would happen if someone made a mistake and ran into someone else. There were many pilots in the air. GREAT VIDEO!
As an NTSB field investigator out of our Chicago office (1985 era) I was assigned to attend OskKosh for several years. Not to spread the safety word or anything that noble, but simply because we knew that accidents would happen. We launched on warning, so-to-speak. I remember a grandpa pilot and his grandson landing in a cornfield, because of engine failure, just as the entire Oshkosh event was winding down. They claimed carburetor icing. Go figure. Both were completely uninjured but without a way to get back to their Chicago suburb. They salvaged a cooler from the wrecked little Piper, and I gave them a ride home in my car. We ate their sandwiches on the way. As an aside, we would have to race the Oshkosh organizers to the crash scenes before the OskKosh fire department could clean up the accident sites and before we could properly document the wreckage for a good investigation. The EAA did not like to advertise the darker aspects of the air show.
I remember last year after 4 people got killed on the same day in two separate incidents and EAA didn't say one word about it until like 11:30 that night. Just kept right on posting on all their social media channels all day like it never happened. You can tell they'd rather sweep these incidents under the rug if they could get away with it, can't say I blame them.
Coming from boating, gyros in the skies seem to be like jet skis on the water … Maneuverability and easy of use give a wrong impression of control, but are no substitute for basic safety protocols.
In years past, I attended Oshkosh 4 or 5 times but never by air. From the ground, the landings and take-offs look beautifully choreographed but as a low-time pilot never felt my skills were refined enough to feel safe. I drove and let my Sonerai IIL set at home.
It should have been a criminal negligence investigation. You flagrantly disobey rules of the road and cause a death , you are in big trouble.But this is the exhalted Oshcosh , by gosh and they get away with murder.
What really irritates me about this is that the one experienced pilot who took safety seriously and tried to keep the other gyro pilots straight was the one who ended up getting killed due to careless actions of those pilots. No matter how safe you are as a pilot, sometimes life can just be unfair that way.
I was at Boeing plaza when this happened. You could see a cloud of black smoke over to the South. This wasn't the only fatal accident that day. A plane crashed into lake Winnebago.
My ex’s second husband is at the bottom of Lake Michigan in his Gyro after leaving Oshkosh in the summer of 98. They’ve never recovered his body or aircraft. He was a UAL A320 pilot.
Having way too many aircrafts flying in congested airspace is also just asking for trouble, even if there was perfect rule compliance. Random emergencies could occur and in a congested airspace there would be little room to aviate while dealing with it.
So I'm not a pilot and just enjoy watching these videos, but I wonder why it makes any sense to have a show like this, regardless of the extra controls put in place. I always shrug at the airshow thing with aviation: on the one hand, pilots are / aspire to be hyper-professional and safe, but then allow these airshow events where there's no shortage of mishaps.
@@user-bo8us6hw8b The motive is probably money for the organisers (and local businesses) and thrill-seeking for the participants. There's profit to be made from having a crowd gather.
@@user-bo8us6hw8b One of the problems is that there are no extra controls put in place. On the contrary, in order to maximize the density of landing planes they reduce the safety of the communication protocol. The ATC call the planes by model and color instead of callsign (what are the chances to have 2 planes of the same model and color in a pack of several hundred?), they land several planes simultaneously at several spots on the same runway. All the approach procedure is a call for incidents. And all that circus is FAA approved. Come to Europe and try to do something half as ambitious as Oshkosh. The local air authority will kick your ass. And they will be 100% right.
@@user-bo8us6hw8b Airshows are an important part of experimental and general aviation. There is nothing wrong with an airshow on the face of it. It is just becoming obvious to me that they are over capacity and for whatever reason are reluctant to address it. Though I have a sneaking suspicion that the reason they organizers are not reducing the number of aircraft operations at the show is primarily financial.
I was the owner of Mooney destroyed in this "accident". This should never have happened. Eric should be in jail for killing Mark and his passenger. The EAA should have been held far more culpable for letting the poor Gyro behavior continue. Here's what you won't find in the report: Eric owned an ELA dealership. He was there representing ELA and was giving a demo flight. ELA also isn't stepping up to make this right for the families of the two souls lost in the helicopter or honestly, me.
@@16-BITFPV Do the world a favor. Get a loaded gun...aim it at your head...pull the trigger....and watch your head implode with the piercing of the internal vacuum.
@@markrix He was fucking around, and killed 2 people. This is known repeated behavior by him and other gyrocopter pilots at OshKosh. I don't think retesting is going to play a role in any of this..
Prayers out to the family and friends of these two pilots. The gyro guy sounded so very dangerous to other pilots and viewers on the ground. He needs to be dealt with serious consequences. Not that will bring Mark and Tom back. Tragic.❤
Best piece of advice i got, with regards to collision avoidance was "be predictaable." Of all the near misses i've had, they were ALL the result of someone doing something unpredictable. (me included). I fly the Hudson river for work. There are always people flying against the prescribed traffic flow, and they almost always have some sort of conflict.
I'm not sure but there's probably some kind of legal waiver full of whereas/forthwith/henceforth BS that will protect Eric. I wonder what kind of driver he is. What goes around comes around.
@@dicksonfranssenyou can't waiver away negligence or deliberate misconduct, just inherent dangers. He broke a clearly defined safety rule that directly caused the crash, so would have waved any protection any legal waiver might have given him.
@@dicksonfranssen Waivers do not relieve liability of negligence, only "Unforeseeable Accidents." I.e. language like, "This is an inherently dangerous activity..." implies due to possibility of human error and/or mechanical failure, which are both wholly exclusive of negligent behavior. The argument of proof will be Eric broke the "No 360 turns" rule more than once. Once is an accident, twice is a habit (voluntary or intentional). Accidents are excusable, habits are punishable.
@@branchandfoundry560 Sorry, I wasn't pretending to be something I'm not, in this case a legal expert. I'm 67 and have seen and heard of too many people getting off too lightly or all together. Obviously you're making more sense than I did. We all take our chances at getting beaned at a baseball game, it's on the back of every ticket. In this case it was dumb luck both aircraft didn't crush a group of Boy Scouts on the ground. Yes, repeatedly breaking a deadly serious rule has to have consequences.
Many years ago when I was at Oshkosh, two planes collided. Everybody looked up, and down came one of them with a whirl of bright blue flames covering it. For the next hour there was no mention of it on the loudspeakers. I seem to remember they said a good EAA'er dosen't deposit trash on the ground, but drops it in the litter boxes. I thought it was evasive and tasteless. I never went back.
After attending this air event for the first time… I have never seen such arrogance, conceit and self centeredness from the vast majority of the pilots in attendance…
Absolutely unacceptable. Follow the dang rules. When everyone’s lives are dependent on the skill & attention of one another, you can’t have people making up their own rules along the way. Two people lost their lives because someone felt the rules didn’t apply him. RIP to the men in the helicopter. 🚁
Thank you so much for your honest ,straight forward analysis . this has become my favorite YT aviation channel ! And as always.. thank you for your service ..
Silly argument. That's like banning guns after a shooting. Inanimate objects are not the cause . . . piling on with generalizations doesn't help your argument.
What is the rationale for cramming all of these aircraft together once a year? It is obvious to me that the size of the event has exceeded the ability to conduct it safely. There should be additional limitations on the number of arrival and departure slots as well as addition restrictions on the number of demonstration flights. Continuing down this path will just lead to more knee jerk reactions by the FAA to "fix the problems with GA and experimental aircraft." "Fixes" that will extend far beyond the temporary problems that Oshkosh creates.
Non-pilot here. I concur. I have to ask why does the FAA go along with this wildly dense concentration of moving aircraft? Seems the FAA has some responsibility to dial this down.
Oshkosh is the holy grail for pilots from around the world. It's THE single biggest event for fans of aviation. The entire planet descends on Wisconsin for one week. A million people go through the exhibit, over 10,000 airplanes land there. With over 20,000 aircraft operations (around 150 takeoffs/landings per day!!), it accounts for nearly 10% of ALL general aviation flying in USA, and nearly one THIRD of controlled GA flying. With that much flying, in such tight space, over such short period of time, Oshkosh is considerably safer than average flying around USA. The number of fatalities is very low, thanks to exceedingly rigid and elaborate safety procedures there. And when they do happen, it is due to someone failing to follow the procedure.
@@vasicp Or like the other day, refusing repeatedly to divert to FDL or Appleton for fuel and ending up running out of gas while in the pattern. You can only do so much for somebody before they wind up getting themselves killed.
Oshkosh sounds like a place to be avoided at all costs. I used to watch Ice Pilots, and Joe McBryan refused to go year after year, until they finally went, I'm guessing for the sake of the show? I can understand why someone wouldn't want to take one of their revenue generating aircraft there.
I don't know from aviation, but I live in WI, and it seems like there's a fatal crash there every year. That's probably an exaggeration, but I have wondered, as a very non-aviator, why the show continues.
It works alright as long as everyone reads and follows the instructions. Flown in a few times myself. The updates they did in 2021 make it a lot safer.
Yes I always want to go there but everything sounds😳kinda sketchy. So much traffic 4 planes landing at the same time. Fast and slow planes mixed up. The big problem was no discipline. A guy takes a 360 tell them to leave. It has to be very clear with clear consequences. Also the experienced pilot should have told his passenger keep your eyes on that gyrocopter they sometimes make 360 turns. Had he said that perhaps it could have been avoided. Yes anyone who breaks the rules you tell them to leave! So sorry someone lost their lives. Not sure what the helicopter pilot was doing. Have to keep your eyes at least on the plane in front or gyrocopter in this case. Ya it was not his fault but he and his passenger are dead. Guess you really need to look around in heavy traffic conditions. Lots of visibility in a helicopter.
@@angelalalley7593there is not fatalities at the show every year I have volunteered there for 15 years! There are always accidents the week of the show and any airplane accident the week of the show is blamed on the show sadly. EAA maintains a safe operation with some exceptions to people not following rules.
Over the years, starting in 1977, I flew into the Oshkosh airspace a half dozen times to attend the EAA Airventure. The first time was in the right seat of a Piper Warrior flown by a CFII, with a landing at OSH. Never again! The other times in a Baron landing at ATW. In the Baron I always had a rated and qualified pilot in the right seat. That airspace is no place to fool around in.
I fly a gyro, I have about the same number of hours as Eric. A 360 degree turn in any circuit sounds ridiculous. Gyros are hard to see, clear comms are essential, as is being predictable. Oshkosh looks hard enough without this happening.
Pilots not looking out the window is a major contributing factor to accidents in general. Too many folk filming while flying or heads in cockpit and not looking out. Another safety concern of mine is multiple cameras getting plastered all over the cockpit windshield creating multiple blind spots. Shouldn't be allowed , not even 1 ⚠️
First responsibility - the gyro pilot, who should face criminal charges. This was deliberate, deciding that they could put others at risk Second, the airshow organisers who refused to keep others safe by not grounding and banning this pilot for blatant disregard of rules
Great timing on this Pilot Debrief. This accident brought a lot of uproar in the GA community and with all of the rules being broken, there have still been ZERO brashers issued to anyone at EAA. Dan Gryder has also been trying his best to push this into the light and I believe EAA just changed some of the rules or procedures that might help. I guess we’ll see. The fact that any aircraft was repeatedly doing tight 360s in the pattern, even for spacing, is beyond me. And for it to go on for days making people laugh in the safety briefing is so infuriating. When that gyro banked it hard, he lost all SA and the last the helicopter was thinking was that someone would come in and hit him from the side while in the pattern. Please be safe. Great job Hoover. RIP 🙏🏼
When someone laughs in a safety briefing and isn't kicked out and grounded immediately, you know that the person giving the safety briefing cares even less than the one who is laughing. Then you're on your own when you decide to put your life in their hands.
@@christianbarnay2499 hard to think that authority actually and appropriately applied today is thought 'non-essential' so to speak. people don't care for it and that's putting it gently.
@@bwfvc7770 Oh god, I thought the internet already rid itself from people like you. You have to bank an airplane to turn or orbit. Do you understand this? Or it that you’re just upset with Hoover, myself, and everyone else in the comments section for not calling this maneuver an “orbit”? Calm down and go to bed bro. Don’t bring those negative attitude over to this side.
Hoover, you the man! I love your concise descriptions of what happened in all your videos. I would really love to see you cover the channel 3 news helicopter crash in Charlotte back in 22 that killed the pilot and a journalist. I live in Charlotte and I remember when that happened and would love to know the details.
As someone who is a major fan of gyroplanes, it really saddens me to hear that not only did he ignore rules, get people killed, but other gyro pilots were also called out for breaking the rules with dangerous performances. Like, the gyro community already has a bad wrap as being a dangerous aircraft in come corners, pilots just outright ignoring safety and the dangers of heavy air traffic doesnt help and it makes me wonder if there will need to simply be bans put in place against gyro pilots unless they can prove they will follow rules in the future.
I'm not a pilot but have always loved watching various aircraft fly by out here in very rural Montana. The skies are so empty here at lower levels that planes are like a novelty. Sometimes I get a wing wave when I'm out riding my horse. It really disturbs me when good pilots are lost because of careless pilots. I have zero desire to be somewhere like Oshkosh, that land on the yellow dot video stressed me out.
Your debriefing is always professional and contains the relevant info. Your statement about rules reminded me of another. The strongest armor can never protect us from ourselves. Thanks
@@CineSoaryeah...what gets me about that clip is how the controller never let up on his mike, just held the air for so long. Would it have safe, and appropriate, for the pilot to go around if he didn't feel he had a safe way to follow instructions?
@@cc-toPIlot in command has the ultimate authority for the safety of the flight. Do what you have to do to live and deal with the paperwork later. In the case of Oshkosh there are too many violations for the FAA to manage. I’m sure people love flying in, but I’ll leave my wings at home and take 4 wheel transportation. Easy for me to say because I live in nearby Minnesota.
The “student” Thomas Volz who was mentioned in this video, I believe he fought in Desert Storm 1990s. He was a pilot of the stratotanker, (I believe that’s the correct name, the plane that refuels other aircrafts while in the air). I just wanted to make this known for those who didn’t know Tom. Tom along with Mark were probably the most experienced and cautious pilots in the air that day. Please take no offense to this correction but I wanted to make it clear.
As a 30 year tower controller, I have noticed that pilots not used to controlled airports think a left 360 is the answer to everything. As a general rule, it is absolutely the worst thing you can do. We do use this maneuver for spacing on the downwind, but suddenly deciding to do this maneuver without being instructed to makes you suddenly aiming toward another aircraft who is low and slow and not much time to react. This has been responsible for a lot of the gray hair on my head, and in my opinion was totally responsible for this accident.
Mark flew out of our airpark, 2AL1. I live 100 feet from the runway. For years Ive watched Mark give instruction outside the windows of my sunroom. He was the safest pilot that ever existed. When I would takeoff and land my Aeronca Mark would be on the radio constantly stating his intentions. He would hover or go to another area to make sure I had a clear path. It’s a crying shame that some careless cowboy killed him.
I'm heading to OSH tomorrow -- except I'm not doing the arrival. I'm flying my RV to a nearby airport, renting a car, and driving to Scholler. Much safer that way. I've done the Fisk and Sun n Fun arrivals several times and concluded it's just a zoo with no accountability for pilots who violate the NOTAM.
I absolutely love listening and watching your debriefing on these flights, Hoover. Although I don't fly, your explanations and compassion towards all involved, are so appreciative, as well as nail bighting! Many thanks.
Gyro guy is one of these drivers who decides to do a random U-turn in the middle of the street. I think the problem is when events are really well run pilots can get a false sense of safety because they are never in near misses. Consequently they start to "play". Gyros sound like the Mustangs of the sky. Whether or not he thought it was safer to do a 360 rather than go around doesn't matter, he cant see the larger picture nor understand how controller want the traffic to flow - all of the other pilots are EXPECTING the traffic to flow a certain way. This guy jumped on his brakes to make a sudden turn across traffic into a fast food joint without checking and got t-boned - only we are in 3 dimensions here. Hopefully he will face some consequences.
Be safe at Oshkosh! Follow the rules! I hope to see you there!
Find out the DEADLY Truth About The Dallas Airshow Crash
👉th-cam.com/video/OFwoExC__MQ/w-d-xo.html
Question is: Will you be there?
All these effing GoPros should be prohibited from anything from a kite to a fucking Anotov. Or have your flight status revoked permanently. That means forever.
Oshkosh, B'Gosh!
@@DennisTedder-wj5ln Why?
A friend of mine is flying up there right now.
People are saying the guy should be banned. No the gyro guy should be in jail. He did something dangerous that he was specifically told not to do and got someone killed. It is not an accident, his reckless behavior killed 2 people.
100% agree. It's no different than getting in a car after having a few beers. I have zero tolerance for a behavior that can be 100% easily avoided.
Especially in Oshkosh airspace, where breaking rules is as good as playing Russian Roulette! It was an unforgivable decision.
Yes this was absolutely a criminal act. Basically negligent homicide ........
The fact that he had a similar close encounter the day before and was called out on it makes this even more troubling. Its criminal.
Yes. This would be criminal negligence
Just imagine being laughed at for your safety concerns and die because you were right. What a senseless tragedy.
Amen
Yes it says something about the reality of so many people doing things that require skill discipline & good judgement it's logical to expect one will not play by the rules, if they could have grounded him after he was first caught doing the 360 degree turns in the pattern maybe this doesn't happen.
I guess it is better than dying because you were wrong.
That happened on a national scale in 2003 with George Bush
Wise advice given to me once before. You can be right and still be dead.
To me this is manslaughter by Eric, he has done this before and knew it was wrong and then did it again anyway and ended up killing someone. Dude should be in prison.
...he killed _two_ people*.
And destroyed three aircraft. And lied. And brought a ton of heat to the event and the aviation community.
Gonna guess he's being sued into oblivion.
@@dadgarage7966 Seems to me "the heat" is warranted.
there have been at least 160 fatalities at the Oshkosh air show since it began IN 1953 NOTHING NEW HERE!
Hey Hoover. From an ex military jet pilot (RAF UK) and airlines A380, and an instructor in both, your work here is just outstanding. Keep it up as it’s very informative for many and high class, in depth analysis that always has a well balanced opinion on the inevitable outcomes. Real class, very well done!
Slurp!
@@foobarmaximus3506 HAHAHA, I note and get your sarcasm. I too am sarcastic by nature, but adminsparkes2450 is spot on. So do you see truth as "ass-kissin", IF that was the suggestion of "slurp"? If I misinterpreted your comment, please expound. Respectfully, TH
Were you on Speedbird A380s? Magnificent planes. Shame the economic predictions didn’t work out for them.
@@timothyhardin-vn9ke don't worry, he's just a sorry troll, these people are so miserable and self loathing that the thought of others appreciating someone else's work sounds absurd
I truly can't get my head round this! They were briefed, they were told, no 360 in the traffic pattern. He did a 360 and the results were two dead. Thats manslaughter.
and made the lie of radio comms that ABSOLUTELY did not happen
Didn't realize how tight the 360 was till the 10:40 mark. That was straight up a spiral stunt on landing.
@@naga2015kk i didn't know that bit!!
Nope, he got two people killed.
S.m.h
Time to sue him into oblivion. Not only did he cause deaths, with purposeful negligence, he lied about it and denied responsibility.
Never mind lawsuits. He committed 2nd degree murder. Lock him up.
@@wcate8301 I agree. He willfully and repeatedly broke officially instituted rules, despite being warned not to and explained the risks. He knew the dangers and handwaved them away. That is the literal definition of involuntary manslaughter.
Ain't going anywhere
If secret service cant be held responsible, how could this dude? what a joke of a country
@@bulbazoth6473..." what a joke of a country" Say that on front of someone that's fought to defend it....Asshole.
If we had a functional legal system Comrade Bone Spurs would have been convicted of fraud and tax evasion
before he ever ran for office the first time.
The pilot in question could easily go down for negligent homicide / 2nd degree homicide. That's an easy one.
The Gyros were apparently flying like idiots all day and it was brought up in the meeting by Mark and then one of the Gyro pilots causes a fatal crash its not a coincidence. Its simple Eric is a liar and should be permanently banned from Oshkosh.
Agreed. Do it once and you're gone for the week. Keep doing the same stupid thing, *don't ever come back*
Banned from Oskhosh?
It s a light slap on the wrist my friend
Banned hell, how about charged with negligent manslaughter? He intentionally broke the rules and killed two people.
Eric should be in jail for manslaughter.
Bare minimum should be license revoked. Ideally he pays restitution in one way or another
RIP to those two guys. That gyro pilot needs to be prosecuted for negligent homicide x 2.
Agree with the sentiment but homicide implies premeditation, so it would be manslaughter. But yeah point still stands
@@powertrip6426reckless homicide does not require premeditation. Some states don’t have manslaughter laws
Lol the typical 387 counts of murder comment everyone parrots from that old 60 minutes episode title.
I agree
Special circumstances
Eric felt like the rules did not apply to him and ended up costing two people their lives.
Discipline is most important even more than courage.
Yes he made up his own rules with that 360 and killed two people who were following the rules. Terrible.
When bad behavior occurs, there must be immediate consequences. Example: If you do a 360, you are grounded for the rest of the show. You kill someone through negligence, you go to prison. Bad behavior continues to happen when there are no immediate consequences. A hole in the swiss cheese was allowing bad behavior to continue.
I would add grounded and prohibited from taking off to leave until everyone else has left, as they clearly cannot be trusted in the same airspace as others.
There are zero consequences in America for bad behavior.
Steal from CVS. Drive without insurance. Illegally enter the country. Drive-by shooting.
Poor airmanship. None of those activities gets you more than an adult version of Time Out.
It's not a mistake if the 'illegal' maneuver is done repeatedly; and if there were no recriminations and laughter at a safety briefing...the overseers of the event are culpable and negligent. I get the sense of 'so what'.
I've seen this before but at cross country motorcycle racing. Someone in the back row, beer in hand, snickering & laughing at the idea of safety. After I nailed another racer who had stopped to scratch himself and sent him down a river bank I had had enough. I was never there to win, just for fun & friends. That day was not a fun one.
and the issue was raised at the briefing and he/they were told not to do it
What did I learn from this video? I learned that I never want to land at OshKosh during EAA. As a pilot, this is something I would love to see, but I'll land somewhere else and drive there.
Years ago , I planned to take my Piper Arrow to Oshkosh.Then my flight instructor told me it was a complete zoo and said he would never into that event.I decided to go to Milwaukee and rent a car.
Given that my flight instructor was an RCAF instructor during WW2 , his counseling I never swayed from.
Fly in earlier or don't fly in at all please. If you do not need your plane there, I don't recommend you fly in. Oshkosh is a mess y'all, there are so many accidents happening there.
@@donallan6396 always listen to your elders.
The smartest man in the room.
@@donallan6396 I agree. That place is nuts.
To me, the staff of Oshkosh are partly to blame. IMO if people are told to stop doing a maneuver and then repeat the same, they should be grounded and among the very last out.
@@AbNomal621 How many Brashers issued? OH THAT'S RIGHT... ZERO!
Exactly my thoughts too. Why wasn't grounding
done?
They are literally the jet ski people of the sky.
That's the US for you. Incompetent, underpaid staff and negligence everywhere.
@@miskatonic6210Bold talk for a Oned Jack, you doesnt have a clue.. And only appears ,after the fact as a Monday morning quart back. O. Ya I see by your IP address they dont play foot ball in your country. TROLL.
The dumbest part is that this gyro pilot makes his turn and doesn’t check to see traffic. So,1. Breaks the rule brought up that very day. 2. Initiates an illegal, stupid, show off turn 3. Does nothing to verify clean airspace- just collides with normal traffic which SHOULD BE WHERE HE IS LOOKING- it’s expected to be there!no mystery to this criminally negligent operation.
Any pilot deviating from procedure at such a busy airshow needs to be perma banned, and someone needs to be accountable to ensure this happens.
And issued an FAA violation.
no gyros but on their own runway and located on a decently separate space/area.
@@megenberg8 I don't think Gyros are an issue in this regard.
banned for killing 2 people ? Are you judge Cannon ?
@@rickhill3071i agree with you. It is always the pilot and NOT the kinda plane you are flying.....i am a gyrocopter pilot by myself.... and i have seen a lot of stupid and dangerous stuff using helicopters or fixed wings .
100% Eric's fault, no questions. He should have *NEVER* done a 360 in the pattern due to the extreme danger it creates. Eric was warned *several* times by other pilots about his reckless behavior. Eric blowed off their warnings, and showed a blatant disregard for safety.
In short, Eric was an ignorant self-entitled *brat* who ignored safety rules and procedures.
This was not an accident, rather, reckless homicide. Eric should be charged with vehicular manslaughter, tried, found guilty, and sent to prison for his actions. Likewise, the FAA should strip him of his current license, and Eric should be banned from ALL future airshows.
Yes, totally there should be consequences. But doubt it. Not our way anymore in this nation!!
This guy’s comment is spot on. Eric was a reckless selfish cowboy who would not follow rules. This is bad and he should be in jail, and never operate any motor vehicle again.
@@jumperstartfulHopefully that will be changing next January 20🤷🏻♂️
@@randyroyston2461 srsly it's almost like the president is the person who issues GA pilot licenses or something
@@jumperstartful : I believe it's a temporary condition.
I was about 500 meters away from the ultralights field when this happened, enjoying the departures on the 36 / 18 flight line. I remember a distinctive and obvious crunch sound, and looked over to see black smoke rising. It was a beautiful day with little to no wind and great weather. It was very sobering, and a good reminder of how important safety will always be in this sport. Rest in peace.
This is why I will never fly in to Oshkosh. There is a crash practically every year. It’s not the controllers, but simply too many aircraft operating in too close proximity
THIS! 100% . Its not rocket science!
Thank you Colonel for your assistance on my cousins helicopter crash. You are a good man.
To be clear, this accident happened during Oshkosh 2023.
This video also documents the rogue pilot mentality that is pervasive during the Oshkosh airshow history. The FAA has never issued a pilot deviation for any UNSAFE flying or taxing incident during Oshkosh. The FAA publicly admits that they do not give out any pilot deviations during the Oshkosh Airshow. SEE & AVOID is an impossible rule to follow in this crowded sky.
The FAA should not be exempting an airshow frequented by amateurs. Anyone who breaks the rules should be punished.
Thought this sounded familiar. Part of the purpose and thrill is to fly "unsafely" and fun, so I think the logic is that you assume the risk and have to judge for yourself if you know what you're doing and can avoid collisions. These are small planes and not large commercial jets so it's easy to maneuver around each other in comparison to airspaces with a lot of commercial activity and in planes that move like syrup (as you'd see in major cities like Chicago and LA). It's still a big ask though! Let's hope everyone stays safe this week.
Could you imagine if the FAA *_did_* give out pilot deviations during Oshkosh?
They'd need a completely separate frequency where a continuously-looping recorded message reads out the telephone number, and any pilot being given a deviation would be just told to QSY to that frequency and write down the number.
But that's not all of it - what happens when a whole lot of people call the number? The FAA would need an entire call centre just to handle all the incoming calls and give out the stern warnings, etc.
Just organising such a system would be a massive operation, let alone actually running it. 🤣🤣🤣
Air shows, motorcycle rallies or even car shows. When a large group is gathered someone will do something stupid.
even better when you throw alcohol in the mix ! !
Also keep in mind that air shows attract exactly the kind of stupid people who want to show off. Safety minded people are more likely to stay far away from a giant mess like that.
True. Best observed from TH-cam. If not, find a stout oak tree and be on the opposite side as the action.
@@Taladar2003not always true
You must have scrambled brains. That’s not always true and stupid to say
Eric needs to be charged with 2 counts of negligent homicide. I'm so fed up with self-entitled a--holes (whether on the road or in the air) being allowed to get away with such dangerous behavior!
I was going to Oshkosh back in the mid-80's, and the gyros were already causing problems then. No idea why they've been tolerated this long.
when a kid back in the 50ties my dad was glider pilot and the gyros were causing problems at el mirage in calif-every time we were out there a gyro crashed and killed someone--a lot of drunk pilots it seemed like
they should not be near the airfield.
@@mtsky-tc6uw Let them go out in the Mojave and fly holes in the sky. But not in a crowded airspace.
The machine is the problem, not the pilot? Weird.
@@Ziggy_MoonglowI think the point everyone is trying to make here is that, it’s not the old saying “a few bad apples, etc.”, but that MOST (or ALL) gyro pilots don’t adhere to the briefings & rules… Either ur not a pilot or English is a 2nd language, which is understandable by taking the term “gyros” literally to mean just the machine… After all, EVERYONE knows machines don’t fly themselves YET…
So…. GyroEric flies his toy gyro less than 30 minutes and causes an accident that kills 2 people? What would be the consequences for a typical auto driver doing the same thing with a car? I find this display of arrogance equivalent to street racer, driving stupid, in LA who killed 2 people, a half hour away from his/her home.
Yeah everyone needs a flying car so they can kill themself even faster.
On LA? If DEI is applied then penalty depends
@@Meh-j9s Oh gawd… if penalties are DEI dependent, then I now associate myself as a transgender, black woman who is bi-sexual, after an amputation (circumcised) with a mental handicap. I’ll be forgiven for whatever I do. Forever and ever, no matter what, or how often I misbehave in society.
In 2023 I made my last flight into KOSH AirVenture. As on all previous flights into AirVenture I studied the Notice exhaustively. It became apparent to me in 2023 that there were people in the pattern who either didn’t read or didn’t understand the Notice or who just willfully disregarded the ATC instructions and procedures contained in the Notice. I was cutoff in the pattern once by someone who cut into the pattern less than 500 feet in front of me from a southerly direction between Green Lake and Ripon, because of spacing, or lack thereof because of the cowboy who cut in from the south i was directed back to the Endeavour Bridge entry point for re-sequencing. On another attempt to land I was cutoff by another aircraft who appeared 200 feet in front of me between Ripon and Fisk from above as I was using the 1800 foot approach and ATC was asking the aircraft coming in on the 2300 foot approach to sequence in at the 1800 foot approach, after another few orbits around Rush lake I was finally able to land safely. That was when I decided that I would never risk my life like that again. My next trips to AirVenture will be to Green Bay or Milwaukee and I will rent a car to go to and from Whitman Field for the show as there is no way to guarantee all pilots will read and follow the procedures.
It seems like AirVenture is too much of a good thing. Too many planes = you'll never get 100% compliance with the rules.
The evening arrival window is way too short and everyone is flying like they are in rush hour. Who hasn’t been cut off in the Fisk approach by an errant pilot and sent around? ADSB has helped the controllers call out offenders and send them into a hold. Either way, as a pilot it is maddening and dangerous. Maybe they ned to lengthen the window or close off the evening arrival altogether.
Wise man. Know when to say when 👍
2022, the RV’s were notorious for cutting the line, saw it personally twice in front of me, and there were dozens of radio calls calling out RV line jumpers, but ATC really never did much except break people out, which now can cause fuel problems since you have to go back to Endeavor Bridge. I was broken out twice because RVs jumped in front inside Fisk, had to go and get fuel after the second break out. Then, when finally cleared to land was almost hit by a EZ coming in fast under me to land without approval. People really need to practice their slow flight before going to OSH, and learn to follow the NOTAM.
My thinking exactly.
Flying to or at OSH is no light work. It was something to check off the bucket list but flying in once was all I needed to know that I won't be doing it again. Thanks for covering this Hoover.
I would feel safer going back and flying a "Scout" mission over the A Shau Valley than doing a traffic pattern at Oshkosh.
And all of the over inflated egos I’ve seen commenting would tell you “it’s no big deal” or “just read the notam and it’s fine” which completely negates all the additional risk. I’m an ATP and there’s no way I’d ever fly in there, I’ll drive.
@@intothevoid10 727, ATP 757,767,777,MD-11, A300 A TRP 2/17 CAV 101 ABN, A CO 101 AVN BN 101 ABN
I'm old now and haven't flown in many years but stories like these cause me to recall an incident that happened when I was back in my flying days. Some friends of mine also into aviation decided we should all fly down from Toronto, Ontario, Canada to a huge annual event for aviators called Oshkosh in Wisconsin. This is a huge event with thousands of pilots flying in to attend. One friend was able to get access to a Cessna 310 twin aircraft for this trip. Unknown to me at the time, one of the pilots was twin rated but not IFR rated, the other pilot was IFR rated but NOT twin rated. I was simply a passenger on this trip and did not find out all this until we were well into our flight down to Oshkosh. As it turned out that day the weather was overcast with rain...definitely IFR conditions. As we approached the Oshkosh area things got very hectic with many planes all trying to get into Oshkosh airport in IFR conditions. Listening to the hectic air traffic on the radios it became obvious that our two pilots were struggling with the crazy traffic including holds, pattern changes, vectors, and all while flying in clouds along with many other aircraft in our immediate airspace, To say I was terrified was an understatement. Risk of airborne collision was high for us as our pilots struggled and I so wished I hadn't gotten on this airplane. This went on for an hour and I was praying silently that we would make it in safely, which we finally did. This was my only trip to Oshkosh.
You got bigger balls than me landing at OSKOSH. I would rather land on an aircraft carrier.
It is an adrenaline rush. Seems that 1/2 follow procedures and 1/2 just wing it.
Yeah exactly why I avoid such events!
No balls
@@mitchelllee879 no I earned all of my gen X points! Have the scars to prove it! Lost count of all the broken bones that I've had years ago.
Age brings you in time the ability to be wise, and avoid the the chaos.
BTW I have done things that most would never dream of. Time changes your perspective. Been there done did it, now it doesn't matter! Still not going...
Plus I don't like the idea of wreckage landing on top of me!
Just better to avoid stupid.
@@mitchelllee879 But alive
Serious question: how did this guy escape criminal charges??? There is no evidence of a radio instruction to him ordering him to do this, he performed a maneuver that was prohibited and problematic, and he caused a crash that killed two people. If you make similar mistakes driving a car, you get charged too. Why not here? Why does Eric Bruce get to skate?
He likely has money and connections? They took often seem to get away with things in my experience.
@@andrewnorris5415that’s a reach. Take off the hat. It’s just the justice system being restarted
I've heard about Oshkosh and how hard it is to maneuver, this brings it to a new level, following the rules just is a must! Thank you, Hoover, for yet another great Debrief.
yep! rules RULE!
Some years ago when I got my training to fly paramotors, I was invited to the Bad Apples Fly-in in Andersonville, Georgia. I got set up for take-off and looked around and there were at least 40 other people preparing to take off. I wondered what would happen if someone made a mistake and ran into someone else. There were many pilots in the air. GREAT VIDEO!
Another great in-depth explanation of an incident that didn’t need to happen.
As an NTSB field investigator out of our Chicago office (1985 era) I was assigned to attend OskKosh for several years. Not to spread the safety word or anything that noble, but simply because we knew that accidents would happen. We launched on warning, so-to-speak.
I remember a grandpa pilot and his grandson landing in a cornfield, because of engine failure, just as the entire Oshkosh event was winding down. They claimed carburetor icing. Go figure. Both were completely uninjured but without a way to get back to their Chicago suburb. They salvaged a cooler from the wrecked little Piper, and I gave them a ride home in my car. We ate their sandwiches on the way.
As an aside, we would have to race the Oshkosh organizers to the crash scenes before the OskKosh fire department could clean up the accident sites and before we could properly document the wreckage for a good investigation. The EAA did not like to advertise the darker aspects of the air show.
Bob? THE Bob Benzon? :o
@@zephyrsky__ Yup.
@@robertbenzon6941 No BS--Thank you for your NTSB service.
I remember last year after 4 people got killed on the same day in two separate incidents and EAA didn't say one word about it until like 11:30 that night. Just kept right on posting on all their social media channels all day like it never happened. You can tell they'd rather sweep these incidents under the rug if they could get away with it, can't say I blame them.
Such a heart warming 💓 story. God bless you Rob😊😊😊
Coming from boating, gyros in the skies seem to be like jet skis on the water … Maneuverability and easy of use give a wrong impression of control, but are no substitute for basic safety protocols.
That's a good analogy.
Hahaha, I was about to post the exact same thing
The irony is sad. He knew the gyro guys were unsafe and brought it to everyones attnetion and still got murdered by a gyro pilot. So sad. Rip
In years past, I attended Oshkosh 4 or 5 times but never by air. From the ground, the landings and take-offs look beautifully choreographed but as a low-time pilot never felt my skills were refined enough to feel safe. I drove and let my Sonerai IIL set at home.
That's called a PIC decision. 👍🏼
that audio of the ATC made me almost wreck and im sitting at my desk WTF.
It must be so fun to be stressed the f out while flying! No clue how people do this for fun 😂
Eric thinks he's the smartest guy on the field. That kind of arrogance kills people.
Yup. No briefing about EGOS!
guess who is his fav president candidate
👍
Mmmm yeah, no.
Idk If im gonna jump to those conclusions without evidence.
Great video Hoover. Thanks for the call out.
Eric Bruce being negligent killed 2 people. This is manslaughter at least.
It should have been a criminal negligence investigation. You flagrantly disobey rules of the road and cause a death , you are in big trouble.But this is the exhalted Oshcosh , by gosh and they get away with murder.
What really irritates me about this is that the one experienced pilot who took safety seriously and tried to keep the other gyro pilots straight was the one who ended up getting killed due to careless actions of those pilots. No matter how safe you are as a pilot, sometimes life can just be unfair that way.
I was at Boeing plaza when this happened. You could see a cloud of black smoke over to the South. This wasn't the only fatal accident that day. A plane crashed into lake Winnebago.
i’d love to fly into oshkosh one day. how early should i fly in so i can land like any other normal airport arrival
@@holasoyalejandro9822 The week before the airshow.
My ex’s second husband is at the bottom of Lake Michigan in his Gyro after leaving Oshkosh in the summer of 98. They’ve never recovered his body or aircraft. He was a UAL A320 pilot.
Having way too many aircrafts flying in congested airspace is also just asking for trouble, even if there was perfect rule compliance. Random emergencies could occur and in a congested airspace there would be little room to aviate while dealing with it.
Yep especially with all the weekend warriors. This is why I never went on my bike to tail of dragon in NC. You are likely to be hit by an idiot.
So I'm not a pilot and just enjoy watching these videos, but I wonder why it makes any sense to have a show like this, regardless of the extra controls put in place. I always shrug at the airshow thing with aviation: on the one hand, pilots are / aspire to be hyper-professional and safe, but then allow these airshow events where there's no shortage of mishaps.
@@user-bo8us6hw8b The motive is probably money for the organisers (and local businesses) and thrill-seeking for the participants. There's profit to be made from having a crowd gather.
@@user-bo8us6hw8b One of the problems is that there are no extra controls put in place. On the contrary, in order to maximize the density of landing planes they reduce the safety of the communication protocol. The ATC call the planes by model and color instead of callsign (what are the chances to have 2 planes of the same model and color in a pack of several hundred?), they land several planes simultaneously at several spots on the same runway. All the approach procedure is a call for incidents. And all that circus is FAA approved. Come to Europe and try to do something half as ambitious as Oshkosh. The local air authority will kick your ass. And they will be 100% right.
@@user-bo8us6hw8b Airshows are an important part of experimental and general aviation. There is nothing wrong with an airshow on the face of it. It is just becoming obvious to me that they are over capacity and for whatever reason are reluctant to address it. Though I have a sneaking suspicion that the reason they organizers are not reducing the number of aircraft operations at the show is primarily financial.
I was the owner of Mooney destroyed in this "accident". This should never have happened. Eric should be in jail for killing Mark and his passenger. The EAA should have been held far more culpable for letting the poor Gyro behavior continue.
Here's what you won't find in the report: Eric owned an ELA dealership. He was there representing ELA and was giving a demo flight. ELA also isn't stepping up to make this right for the families of the two souls lost in the helicopter or honestly, me.
Sorry to hear of your aircraft loss. I have many hours in Mooneys, tremendous aircraft that are a joy to fly. Yours looked like a great example.
Wow.. unbelievable.. sorry you lost your plane because of that idiot
Life sucks.... Then it's over. Cry about it.
@@16-BITFPV Do the world a favor. Get a loaded gun...aim it at your head...pull the trigger....and watch your head implode with the piercing of the internal vacuum.
@@16-BITFPV You're a waste of life.
Eric should lose his pilot license. His arrogance cost two lives. 😢
He should definitely have to retest, accidents happen even to the best of us.
@@markrix accident?!? Perhaps in the most basic definition of the word, but it was arrogance and negligence that killed two men.
@@markrix He was fucking around, and killed 2 people. This is known repeated behavior by him and other gyrocopter pilots at OshKosh. I don't think retesting is going to play a role in any of this..
I hate how similar to drunk driving, the reckless rule breaker survives, and the innocent bystander gets killed.
Good debrief Hoover. I am not nor do I want to be a pilot but the insight into the details of aircraft control and the rules involved is fascinating
Prayers out to the family and friends of these two pilots.
The gyro guy sounded so very dangerous to other pilots and viewers on the ground. He needs to be dealt with serious consequences. Not that will bring Mark and Tom back.
Tragic.❤
Yes
We stopped going to the EAA fly-in at Lakeland. Too many aircraft, and not enough room for everyone. We just felt it was too dangerous.
Never heard of anyone just deciding to make a 360 in the pattern without instruction from ATC. And.. unannounced at that!
Best piece of advice i got, with regards to collision avoidance was "be predictaable."
Of all the near misses i've had, they were ALL the result of someone doing something unpredictable. (me included).
I fly the Hudson river for work. There are always people flying against the prescribed traffic flow, and they almost always have some sort of conflict.
Imagine killing someone recklessly then still trying to be the victim
I assume this Eric guy will be sued penniless, never to fly again. What a buzz kill.
I'm not sure but there's probably some kind of legal waiver full of whereas/forthwith/henceforth BS that will protect Eric. I wonder what kind of driver he is. What goes around comes around.
If he had any money he would be flying a real airplane.
@@dicksonfranssenyou can't waiver away negligence or deliberate misconduct, just inherent dangers. He broke a clearly defined safety rule that directly caused the crash, so would have waved any protection any legal waiver might have given him.
@@dicksonfranssen Waivers do not relieve liability of negligence, only "Unforeseeable Accidents." I.e. language like, "This is an inherently dangerous activity..." implies due to possibility of human error and/or mechanical failure, which are both wholly exclusive of negligent behavior. The argument of proof will be Eric broke the "No 360 turns" rule more than once. Once is an accident, twice is a habit (voluntary or intentional). Accidents are excusable, habits are punishable.
@@branchandfoundry560 Sorry, I wasn't pretending to be something I'm not, in this case a legal expert. I'm 67 and have seen and heard of too many people getting off too lightly or all together. Obviously you're making more sense than I did. We all take our chances at getting beaned at a baseball game, it's on the back of every ticket. In this case it was dumb luck both aircraft didn't crush a group of Boy Scouts on the ground. Yes, repeatedly breaking a deadly serious rule has to have consequences.
Very scary indeed I saw the smoke and crash area! Great video Hoover it was also great to meet you this week! 😅
Eric should be charged. That’s ridiculous!
That man had 8000 hours in a homebuilt aircraft. That stat alone is incredible. 8000 hours doing anything is a crazy amount of time
I hope everybody is safe at this year’s Airventure, which starts Monday.
Everybody who stays on the ground will be safe....
Many years ago when I was at Oshkosh, two planes collided. Everybody looked up, and down came one of them with a whirl of bright blue flames covering it. For the next hour there was no mention of it on the loudspeakers. I seem to remember they said a good EAA'er dosen't deposit trash on the ground, but drops it in the litter boxes. I thought it was evasive and tasteless. I never went back.
Simply put, if you don't have the skill level to fly into Oshkosh, don't go. You MUST study the notice that is provided and follow the rules.
Those making unauthorized 360s should have been grounded.
After attending this air event for the first time… I have never seen such arrogance, conceit and self centeredness from the vast majority of the pilots in attendance…
Absolutely unacceptable. Follow the dang rules. When everyone’s lives are dependent on the skill & attention of one another, you can’t have people making up their own rules along the way.
Two people lost their lives because someone felt the rules didn’t apply him.
RIP to the men in the helicopter. 🚁
right. and a prevailing 'tude' of late in our recent history. there it is.
What's a dang rule? I'm a native Brit and never heard of it.
Stay safe at Oshkosh today everyone. And have fun.
Thank you so much for your honest ,straight forward analysis . this has become my favorite YT aviation channel ! And as always.. thank you for your service ..
Great work man. Always great, sober analysis.
The gyro pilot has probably incurred some criminal liability, and certainly civil liability.
It's so unfortunate that the guy breaking the rules lived.
Its good to see a true pro talk about how to do the job.
Just ban the gyros!
If they don't wanna listen and act like kids then they don't get to participate.
Silly argument. That's like banning guns after a shooting. Inanimate objects are not the cause . . . piling on with generalizations doesn't help your argument.
are gyros inherently more dangerous than other types? Or was it the pilot.
@@DrDeuteron Pilot.
let's ban x because someone was being stupid with it goofy ahh comment
There was a Gen Av crash that day too...should we can all Gen Av aircraft too?
Stupid argument
Safety briefing expressly PROHIBITED 360 in the pattern.
Period!
Nothing further can be argued.
Nice job Hoover. 👊
Sometimes I think watching The Great Waldo Pepper should be a prerequisite for ALL prospective pilots.
The amount of time, and work you put into these videos are incredible! You're work is appreciated.
What is the rationale for cramming all of these aircraft together once a year? It is obvious to me that the size of the event has exceeded the ability to conduct it safely. There should be additional limitations on the number of arrival and departure slots as well as addition restrictions on the number of demonstration flights. Continuing down this path will just lead to more knee jerk reactions by the FAA to "fix the problems with GA and experimental aircraft." "Fixes" that will extend far beyond the temporary problems that Oshkosh creates.
Non-pilot here. I concur. I have to ask why does the FAA go along with this wildly dense concentration of moving aircraft? Seems the FAA has some responsibility to dial this down.
Oshkosh is the holy grail for pilots from around the world. It's THE single biggest event for fans of aviation. The entire planet descends on Wisconsin for one week. A million people go through the exhibit, over 10,000 airplanes land there.
With over 20,000 aircraft operations (around 150 takeoffs/landings per day!!), it accounts for nearly 10% of ALL general aviation flying in USA, and nearly one THIRD of controlled GA flying. With that much flying, in such tight space, over such short period of time, Oshkosh is considerably safer than average flying around USA. The number of fatalities is very low, thanks to exceedingly rigid and elaborate safety procedures there. And when they do happen, it is due to someone failing to follow the procedure.
@@vasicp Or like the other day, refusing repeatedly to divert to FDL or Appleton for fuel and ending up running out of gas while in the pattern. You can only do so much for somebody before they wind up getting themselves killed.
My dad flew into Oskosh once back in the 80's. Said he'd never do that again.
Oshkosh sounds like a place to be avoided at all costs. I used to watch Ice Pilots, and Joe McBryan refused to go year after year, until they finally went, I'm guessing for the sake of the show? I can understand why someone wouldn't want to take one of their revenue generating aircraft there.
I live in WI, and there are fatal crashes there year after year. I don't know from aviation, but I always wonder why it, the show, that is, continues.
I don't know from aviation, but I live in WI, and it seems like there's a fatal crash there every year. That's probably an exaggeration, but I have wondered, as a very non-aviator, why the show continues.
It works alright as long as everyone reads and follows the instructions. Flown in a few times myself. The updates they did in 2021 make it a lot safer.
Yes I always want to go there but everything sounds😳kinda sketchy. So much traffic 4 planes landing at the same time. Fast and slow planes mixed up. The big problem was no discipline. A guy takes a 360 tell them to leave. It has to be very clear with clear consequences. Also the experienced pilot should have told his passenger keep your eyes on that gyrocopter they sometimes make 360 turns. Had he said that perhaps it could have been avoided. Yes anyone who breaks the rules you tell them to leave! So sorry someone lost their lives. Not sure what the helicopter pilot was doing. Have to keep your eyes at least on the plane in front or gyrocopter in this case. Ya it was not his fault but he and his passenger are dead. Guess you really need to look around in heavy traffic conditions. Lots of visibility in a helicopter.
@@angelalalley7593there is not fatalities at the show every year I have volunteered there for 15 years! There are always accidents the week of the show and any airplane accident the week of the show is blamed on the show sadly. EAA maintains a safe operation with some exceptions to people not following rules.
Over the years, starting in 1977, I flew into the Oshkosh airspace a half dozen times to attend the EAA Airventure. The first time was in the right seat of a Piper Warrior flown by a CFII, with a landing at OSH. Never again! The other times in a Baron landing at ATW. In the Baron I always had a rated and qualified pilot in the right seat. That airspace is no place to fool around in.
Your non-subjective analysis of accidents are awesome. I use your channel often. Thank you Hoover!
I fly a gyro, I have about the same number of hours as Eric.
A 360 degree turn in any circuit sounds ridiculous.
Gyros are hard to see, clear comms are essential, as is being predictable.
Oshkosh looks hard enough without this happening.
Pilots not looking out the window is a major contributing factor to accidents in general.
Too many folk filming while flying or heads in cockpit and not looking out.
Another safety concern of mine is multiple cameras getting plastered all over the cockpit windshield creating multiple blind spots.
Shouldn't be allowed , not even 1 ⚠️
Reminds me of the all too frequent drunk driver fatalities where the drunk always survives. This was no accident it was pure negligence.
First responsibility - the gyro pilot, who should face criminal charges. This was deliberate, deciding that they could put others at risk
Second, the airshow organisers who refused to keep others safe by not grounding and banning this pilot for blatant disregard of rules
Great timing on this Pilot Debrief. This accident brought a lot of uproar in the GA community and with all of the rules being broken, there have still been ZERO brashers issued to anyone at EAA. Dan Gryder has also been trying his best to push this into the light and I believe EAA just changed some of the rules or procedures that might help. I guess we’ll see. The fact that any aircraft was repeatedly doing tight 360s in the pattern, even for spacing, is beyond me. And for it to go on for days making people laugh in the safety briefing is so infuriating. When that gyro banked it hard, he lost all SA and the last the helicopter was thinking was that someone would come in and hit him from the side while in the pattern. Please be safe. Great job Hoover. RIP 🙏🏼
When someone laughs in a safety briefing and isn't kicked out and grounded immediately, you know that the person giving the safety briefing cares even less than the one who is laughing. Then you're on your own when you decide to put your life in their hands.
@@christianbarnay2499 hard to think that authority actually and appropriately applied today is thought 'non-essential' so to speak. people don't care for it and that's putting it gently.
@@bwfvc7770 Oh god, I thought the internet already rid itself from people like you. You have to bank an airplane to turn or orbit. Do you understand this? Or it that you’re just upset with Hoover, myself, and everyone else in the comments section for not calling this maneuver an “orbit”? Calm down and go to bed bro. Don’t bring those negative attitude over to this side.
Hoover, you the man!
I love your concise descriptions of what happened in all your videos.
I would really love to see you cover the channel 3 news helicopter crash in Charlotte back in 22 that killed the pilot and a journalist.
I live in Charlotte and I remember when that happened and would love to know the details.
As someone who is a major fan of gyroplanes, it really saddens me to hear that not only did he ignore rules, get people killed, but other gyro pilots were also called out for breaking the rules with dangerous performances.
Like, the gyro community already has a bad wrap as being a dangerous aircraft in come corners, pilots just outright ignoring safety and the dangers of heavy air traffic doesnt help and it makes me wonder if there will need to simply be bans put in place against gyro pilots unless they can prove they will follow rules in the future.
I've been to 4 airshows in my life. And there was at least one death at all four. I don't go to airshows anymore. Sick of watching people die.
ever thought you might be a jinx on airshows?
I'm not a pilot but have always loved watching various aircraft fly by out here in very rural Montana. The skies are so empty here at lower levels that planes are like a novelty. Sometimes I get a wing wave when I'm out riding my horse. It really disturbs me when good pilots are lost because of careless pilots. I have zero desire to be somewhere like Oshkosh, that land on the yellow dot video stressed me out.
Your debriefing is always professional and contains the relevant info. Your statement about rules reminded me of another.
The strongest armor can never protect us from ourselves.
Thanks
Who is the air boss giving him direction? That clip gave me anxiety
No one gave him the directions. He acted on his own free will and carelessly trying to impress someone by stunting.
@@truthandreality4650 I believe he's talking about the "Land on the yellow dot... FLY IT DOWN THE RUNWAY!" clip, at the front of the video.
@@CineSoaryeah...what gets me about that clip is how the controller never let up on his mike, just held the air for so long. Would it have safe, and appropriate, for the pilot to go around if he didn't feel he had a safe way to follow instructions?
@@cc-toPIlot in command has the ultimate authority for the safety of the flight. Do what you have to do to live and deal with the paperwork later. In the case of Oshkosh there are too many violations for the FAA to manage. I’m sure people love flying in, but I’ll leave my wings at home and take 4 wheel transportation. Easy for me to say because I live in nearby Minnesota.
@@CineSoar Understood, thanks.
The “student” Thomas Volz who was mentioned in this video, I believe he fought in Desert Storm 1990s. He was a pilot of the stratotanker, (I believe that’s the correct name, the plane that refuels other aircrafts while in the air). I just wanted to make this known for those who didn’t know Tom. Tom along with Mark were probably the most experienced and cautious pilots in the air that day. Please take no offense to this correction but I wanted to make it clear.
As a 30 year tower controller, I have noticed that pilots not used to controlled airports think a left 360 is the answer to everything. As a general rule, it is absolutely the worst thing you can do. We do use this maneuver for spacing on the downwind, but suddenly deciding to do this maneuver without being instructed to makes you suddenly aiming toward another aircraft who is low and slow and not much time to react. This has been responsible for a lot of the gray hair on my head, and in my opinion was totally responsible for this accident.
Mark flew out of our airpark, 2AL1. I live 100 feet from the runway. For years Ive watched Mark give instruction outside the windows of my sunroom. He was the safest pilot that ever existed. When I would takeoff and land my Aeronca Mark would be on the radio constantly stating his intentions. He would hover or go to another area to make sure I had a clear path. It’s a crying shame that some careless cowboy killed him.
I'm heading to OSH tomorrow -- except I'm not doing the arrival. I'm flying my RV to a nearby airport, renting a car, and driving to Scholler. Much safer that way. I've done the Fisk and Sun n Fun arrivals several times and concluded it's just a zoo with no accountability for pilots who violate the NOTAM.
I absolutely love listening and watching your debriefing on these flights, Hoover.
Although I don't fly, your explanations and compassion towards all involved, are so appreciative, as well as nail bighting!
Many thanks.
Gyro guy is one of these drivers who decides to do a random U-turn in the middle of the street.
I think the problem is when events are really well run pilots can get a false sense of safety because they are never in near misses. Consequently they start to "play". Gyros sound like the Mustangs of the sky.
Whether or not he thought it was safer to do a 360 rather than go around doesn't matter, he cant see the larger picture nor understand how controller want the traffic to flow - all of the other pilots are EXPECTING the traffic to flow a certain way. This guy jumped on his brakes to make a sudden turn across traffic into a fast food joint without checking and got t-boned - only we are in 3 dimensions here.
Hopefully he will face some consequences.
I'm still waiting for the part where you tell us how many years this Eric guy got sentenced to for murder. Not much else a person can call it
...but you do *not* have "all the rules designed to keep pilots safe". Oshkosh specifically asks for some of those rules to be waived.
This what you get when amateurs play with the safety-rules. That gyro-guy should be in jail.