The investigation was only 3 pages long if you take out the photos and charts. Even if they didn’t have the video, they could’ve done a much better job. Full video is up on my Patreon since TH-cam doesn’t like people posting videos that show “strong moments of impact”. If you want to see another plane crash filmed from inside the aircraft then check out this video: Pilot's Reckless Mistakes Caught on Camera! th-cam.com/video/ALHAv5m9p1g/w-d-xo.html
This case just goes to show how deep corruption is embedded in Africa. We cant even do a proper investigation because there are people who are being protected from accountability hence the shoddy investigation. Too bad for them, the video counters all the bs they are going out of their way to hide. Thanks for calling out this mess for what it is🤷🏿♂️
What the hell??? That takeoff roll was forever! Followed by an immediate stall indicator. The damn door was tied open? Why not just tether a parachute to your tail??? The amount of carelessness is astonishing. Lucky they walked away. That report is a JOKE. Wow.
Aircraft mechanic here with around 8 years working on 172s: it takes about 3 minutes to remove and install the door on a 172. The hinge pins just pop out and then you undo the cotter pin on the door hold open strap clevis pin. That's literally it. You can do the entire operation with a single pair of long nose pliers.
@@crisp.3481 For convenience he tied the chainsaw to a makeshift extension pole with straps and it already has cable ties holding the throttle fully open. Problem solved
And why in the first place are we OK with removing the door to make pictures? Really?!?. I mean I don't like the wings when I go on vacation either when I have a window seat, and these big noisy fans underneath even less. but hey, who's asking me. Right.
@@retinaquesterPlenty of small airplanes without doors. Nothing strange at all. What’s really strange is how a commercial pilot have such limited understanding of aerodynamics that he thinks it’ll be ok taking off with a big spoiler deployed.
Second that. I have over 1200 skydives, mostly from Cessnas, quite a few from the 172, and removing & replacing the door is a piece of old takkie [Sorry, that's a South African expression]. I have also seen quite a few skydiving accident investigation reports and considering that until the time I was last associated with skydiving, the field was only a few hundred strong and unable to sustain full-time staff, the investigations done by amateur safety consultants were a couple of orders of magnitude better than this one. Just as a matter of interest, I wonder if the investigation was done by an actual DCA [Dept of Civil Aviation, equiv of FAA] staff member or the local flight school deputy chief instructor. Rhetorical, I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is the level the civil servants have fallen to in SA.
bringing groceries back from home with the bags hanging from my arm, on a motorcycle, already destroys the performance of the bike and makes it almost impossible to ride.... now imagine this genius, tying a door to a vehicle whose survivability depends 100% on drag efficiency... this guy should not be allowed to drive, let alone fly
Why the FUCK do you tie a door to a strut? It is exactly like a car: door is open during parking, and even then you close it again. And during flight, the door is closed. During take off, you do not want an amateur air brake. What was wrong with that pilot?! Even if you notice such an error, you take a decision: break off take off, or not. But even unexperienced pilots have been warned about stalling, first thing you do is drop the nose, most planes even do that themselves. In short, this pilot failed flying the plane, my guess is panic or freezing in fear. A better pilot could do an emergency landing, and probably survived. These aluminum planes are incredibly strong, they really protect the people onboard. That is your last hope, when going down. A rough emergency landing is way better than just falling from the sky. I still don't get why that pilot did not keep flying the plane, even with that door you can fly. Do some slip the other way, whatever, keep that airspeed okay. Jesus! Even I know such things.
More embarrassing than load-shedding? I have family there, SA has gone downhill quite a bit. It’s basically a third-world country these days, sending prayers for you guys.
While taxiing, a lot of pilots will tell you as the passenger to hold your door open. The reason being, if there is a collision during taxing with another plane, you want to be able to get out of the plane. A collision may jam doors closed, and in the even of an engine fire, you're then fubar.
@@christopherweise438 Was just my random FYI based on what I saw in the comments; I didn't actually watch it that long. I've been preaching what he's saying at 3:30 for years. Get that nose down in a stall, get that throttle and airspeed up. Take off is when you're engine is most likely to fail; scope out the fields ahead of you always before you take off and land straight ahead. There is no go around. Fly the wing not the engine. Of course, being a quadcopter aerobatic pilot, I fly nothing but the engine all the time, so... ironic. But I started my aviation career with antique ultralight motorgliders. You just use the engine to gain alitutde without a tow craft, then you cut the engine off and glide back to the airport. Every landing in a glider is a dead stick landing.
Shoutout to you for going through every single one of them on the internet so you could confidently (and definitely not incorrectly or unnecessarily like everybody else on the planet) use the word "literally". Sounds like a lot of work. Well done
Exactly what I was thinking. I honestly believe that having never flown before that I would have issued the stick forward with the stall warning blaring. WTF was he thinking!
Great analysis Hoover. I'm an ex pilot, and I was shouting at the screen during the whole attempted take off. If you are trying to take off, and the stall warning is squeaking at you at rotate speed, you have a problem. I've seen C 172's doing impressive STOL demos with a competent pilot, this was a f*ckup from first opening the throttle. Glad they all got out ok though.
I’m not even a pilot and nor will ever be but even I was giving the screen dubious looks as I watched the takeoff roll. I was wondering why they hadn’t reached V1 yet and that maybe it was time to abort even before they crossed over the lines. Then I recognised the stall horn blaring moments after takeoff and my doubts increased dramatically. Given the runway was so long I was thinking maybe they should land before they got much further. It’s a BAD thing when you’re making so many bad decisions and mistakes that you got a non-pilot watching and recognising things that you aren’t.
This is one of the few videos in which I have experience as a pilot in the type. Hearing the stall warning going off when trying to rotate... like, I wonder what was going through the pilot's mind. Another great review.
what!!!!!! I absolutely can NOT believe this! The moment the camera panned over to the right, I saw the door open and I thought he must be holding it open with his foot! CLOSE IT!! In my 47 years of flying, I have seen a lot of ridiculous accidents but this one tops them all!
My husband specifically asked the owner to remove to door as he has been doing aerial photography for many years. The owner didn't want to remove the hinges and tied the door to the aircraft. Everyday I wish that we didn't get on that plane, because we never had a normal day ever since. We do hope that other passengers will be aware of the dangers involved and aboard the flight.
Great job, Hoover! I’ve been a professional pilot for 38 years now and have done a lot of aviation safety work, but for once I was completely surprised by the cause of this accident. What an absolutely embarrassing “investigation”.
I'd be willing to be that the pilot didn't lean the mixture for a high density altitude either and that plus the door being open made it pretty much impossible to get out of ground effect.
@@Val-hj3st That's what I was thinking too, that engine did not sound like it was generating near enough power for takeoff, even through the gopro microphone.
What I like about this video is that it doesn't treat the investigation as this holy thing that's not to be questioned. Quite often those documents are amazing, and the investigators are brilliant people most of the time. But like everything that's made by humans, they sometimes suck, and we need to figure out when that happens, and why.
Also, who ties their door open, and then flies like that? I'm not even a student pilot (but did study a lot of the theory), and this gives me the shivers. Like, compared to the wing of an 172, a door is huge. And even worse, the parasitic drag is probably like doubled in most situations. How do you even begin to think this is a good idea?
In South Africa this is called affirmative action meaning that in order for you to get the job you need to be preferably of colour, the darker the better , and to hell with your qualifications if any at all. Greetings from 🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦
@@comancheflyer4903Sounds like the very path United has seemingly chosen to take. . . And I won't be surprised when we start to see the same type of results.
You mentioned at the beginning of this video, "that he wasn't flying enough to stay ahead of the aircraft". That is exactly when I knew it was time for me to stop flying and I did. Not only was it disconcerting to not stay ahead of the aircraft, but it was also no longer enjoyable to fly in that state of degraded competency.
How many hours did you log before you decided to stop? And why did your competency degrade? If you don’t mind me asking such personal questions… I’m a student pilot getting close to the checkride as well as closing in on my 56th birthday, and now that the CFI is acting more like a passenger than an instructor, and letting me make the decision, I have had a few instances of poor decision making. Nothing as stupid as tying a door to a wing strut to keep it open, but something that - under the right circumstances - might escalate into a serious incident. Nice teachable moments that I rather have with a CFI yelling at me instead of when I’m up there alone, and according to the CFI everyone has these moments. But I do want to be aware of my own level of competence, understanding that some things do get worse with age. So I am curious how you reached the decision to quit flying.
@@kaasmeester5903 I'd be happy to share that. Thank you for asking. I had completed by PPL flight training in an intense flight program offered to Marine Corps Officer (PLC) Candidates, called the Civilian Pilot Training (CPT) Program. I did so, during the last 4 months of my senior year of college and before I graduated and was commissioned into the Marine Corps. My report date for my first MC duty was in October, so I had flown just over 200 hours in 8 months and was extremely on top of my flying. So, after becoming a fully active Marine Corps officer (6 years), getting married, and starting a family, my financial and time priorities changed away from that of flying. The few times I did fly in that transitional time (after reporting for active duty) was with other private pilots. Every time I did fly, I really didn't have the sense of accomplishment and competency flying that I had had during earlier times. I knew my ability to fly safely was finished and at the same time that my priorities were not going to change back to support a safe and competent flying regimen. So, that was the end to my dreams as a 10-year-old child of being a commercial airline pilot. But I have had a great life going down the paths that I have chosen none the less.
@@pilot-debrief Yes, one of the reasons I have made it to 73 is that I was never a Bold pilot. My last name is Wise, but its label has not always worked for me; that factor keeps me humble.
@@kaasmeester5903 I was 55 when I passed my checkride, so right there with you. And I too made my share of poor decision making. The worst part was beating myself overly much on it which inhibited me as it seemed anything less than perfect was a fail. At a certain point you just have to rely on your training. We'll never have 30 year old eyesight or reflexes anymore, but we can be good pilots if we do what we're trained to do. Focus on your weak area and get those reps in. If you hit a plateau (like I did with short/soft), maybe try someone new. Performance t/o & landings was where I was stuck for a long time until I flew with someone else who explained it differently and boom - it was like a lightbulb went off.
My pops was an airline mechanic for one of the biggest for 25 years. This channel is so well put together and Hoover is one of the best in the industry. Love to you and your dedication to teaching all of us.
the fact the pilot later reported a "crosswind" just illustrates how clueless to the basic concept of aerodynamics he was. although that may have just been a blatant lie as the investigators were clearly either stupid or corrupt enough not to actually "investigate" his story
When I was instructing, I had students take off in 172s at reduced RPM power settings to simulate density altitude. It's a real surprise to them the first time they do it and realize not only how long the roll is, but how shallow the departure is.
My helicopter instructor did the same thing, with sliding takeoffs, to simulate high altitude takeoffs where you couldn't hover. We did slide-on landings the same way.
i've never flown a skyhawk (a lie, but not really, I've been a left seat front passenger in one) and I felt that in my bones - prob because I know how shallow the departure is in a skyhawk not operating at special density altitude
I'm gonna go.ahead and say, this pilot sounds like he shouldn't be flying? Like to hear what HIS instructors say about him. The door tied open is perhaps the dumbest thing I've ever seen a puddle jumper pilot do.
It actually makes total dense to me. It's called, "Anything to keep the pretty girl happy.". This frequently overrides a young pilot's judgment and faculties.
You sound like a very well educated and experienced pilot. The way you break these debriefs down is very entertaining. You have a natural ability to turn things into something. Great channel. Great content.
@@haywoodyoudome You're so right. Apartheid was wrong, but what has been happening here for the past 30 years is much worse. It's a matter of time before we end up like the rest of Africa.
It is insane that this guy had a license, I mostly just fly flight sims on a home PC setup and most of what was going on was obvious, and keeping the high angle of attack with the stall alarm going off... really?
Sounds like the idiot pilot has friends in high places. He truly is an idiot and I hope they took his license away for life and his passengers sue his ass off for everything he is worth.
Somehow during the initial watching of the video, I noticed the door open and my mouth dropped - wondering how it could be held open. Then Hoover pointed out this cause.
I don’t usually like these kind of videos but good job getting the corrections out and doing the homework that was really supposed to be done by the investigators. Kind of sad that someone out there is getting paid to get everything so wrong and you could show it so easily. Thanks again
Unbelievable!! I’m shocked that a pilot with such little experience can take passengers on a “commercial” flight but I’m even more astounded at the sheer incompetence of whatever entity undertook that investigation.
@@SoloPilot6 that’s not the same thing and you know it. They’ll give any moron a drivers licence in the US. In Europe it’s more difficult but in a car if you get out of your depth you can just pull over. Not quite as easy in an aircraft.
@@greg6126 The 1500 hour requirement is for an Airline Transport Pilot certificate; you can still get a Commercial Pilot certificate in the US at 250 hours (190 if graduating from a part 141 school). But as stated, the vast majority of pilots with the right training and attitude are quite professional and safe, no matter how many hours they have. I took passengers flying all the time (not for hire) in 172's and 182's when I had 200 hours; even flew some aerial photography sorties in CAP. I never would've dreamed of tying the door to the strut. Complete insanity.
I’d also be interested to see where the mixture was at, maybe pilot had it on full rich, at this high altitude airport. RPMs don’t sound like they are highest rpm. The tied open door though, is so incredibly stupid.
I am so impressed by your level of professionalism. You are both doing an awesome by doing your own investigation that has a much better quality than the official investigation, but you are also doing a public outreach. Basically, your one-person-shop is outperforming the official office in charge of investigating accidents and feeding the lessons learned back to the community. Not to mention that you are a water hole for aviators caring about safety and protocols.
Thank you so much. We don't want anyone to go through such a traumatic experience. I just thought... That was it. I am going to see my husband die in front of me. So I just closed my eyes and kept them closed until I heard his voice. I remember saying to myself "this can't be real" , "this is not happening right now".
During my initial flight training, also in a 172, I vividly recall my instructor demonstrating how much effect the door has on the flight characteristics of the plane. Its been a lot of years, but my memory is that he even said in an emergency, it can be used to help slip a plane or as a speed brake. Thankfully I never needed to deploy the door - but it did reinforce how just a little change in the aerodynamics of the plane can make a huge difference in the way it flys!
500 hours in a 172 here and I never would’ve guessed the door was tied open to the strut! That is absolutely insane!! SO much drag! Along with all the other mistakes he made.. SMH just speechless. This dude probably shouldn’t be flying. That is absolutely inexcusable. Glad he wasn’t able to gain more altitude cause this could’ve been so much worse. Thanks for making these videos.
If they managed to get more altitude and land safely afterwards would've been a worse ending.... cause the pilot would've missed this importan lesson, and a MUCH worse scenario would be cooking in a near future LOL!
It sounded like tying the door open was someone else idea who runs the operation. The company should be shut down at least make the company name known so public can stay clear of them.
I have never flown a plane, but love watching these analysis of incidents videos from this channel, Scott Perdue flywire and Blancolirio channel. I have gained so much info about causes of aviation accidents, that even I could understand and could make the call on what caused this crash. This pilot and his instructor should be re-evaluated for competency.
Opening and holding a door on a Cessna creates a tremendous amount of drag and creates its own yaw. This is probably the single most contributing factor in this accident besides the pilot not rejecting the takeoff.
@@TheDaar97 could have been countering it with the actual rudder. No sense in arguing about it, there’s a video and you can see it moved to the left, into the wind.
The door deflected air to the right creating a high pressure area on the right side of the fuselage. If this high pressure deflection was at the rear the plane would yaw to the right. If it was at the nose the plane would yaw to the left. Centered deflected pressure pushed the plane to the left.
@@doylefab8945BINGO! In layman's terms, the plane was following the path of least resistance! The fact that neither the "pilot" or "investigator" appreciated this, is mind-boggling!
Hi Hoover, LOVE your channel! I'm not a pilot, but I dated a Cobra Gunship pilot from New River MCAS & an A-6 pilot from Cherry Point MCAS. ( NOT at the same time!) Both drove me nuts with their charts & calculations. The latter even accused me of loving his plane more than I loved him. You do a much better debrief with much more polite language. Keep up the good work!
Pilots can be a… very special breed. It can take a person with a personality type to date and love a pilot. My bf is an airline pilot so I speak from experience. Also several of my friends are airline pilots-not really a surprise given I work on the ground crews. Of course it helps that I like aviation too and have learned enough to understand it when he talks about his day at work (most of the time.) And probably that my life is equally dependent upon the airport operational needs as he is. Independence in being unbothered when he’s not around for a few days, trust, not affixing too much importance to being available on specific dates (aka celebrating a birthday a few days before or after the actual day,) and rolling with the quirks, charts, high organisational awareness and precision can be helpful.
Right. Sadly, in the past, I would have been one of the people who would say, well if the pilot has a license surely they're proficient. Now I know better. I've always figured that a pilot wouldn't risk their own life so they must know what they're doing 🤷♀️🤦♀️
I carried a pad and pencil for years when making flights with pilots I didn’t know. Made a lot of trips in singles and light twin in the 70’s and 80’s. I would gather the numbers and go to piss before we took off. In the bathroom I did all my own weight and fuel calculations. Now I could act like texting and do them all standing by the plane with a smart phone. 😂
@@dougtaylor7724 I and, I think, most pilots would appreciate someone double checking our work. If the pilot's ego is that fragile that you feel you have to hide what you're doing, maybe that's a sign to find another pilot.
@@johnopalko5223 Back then the flying world was sooo different. There were old guys from WW2 that never had a private license. Everybody assumed they did because they flew in the war. Flying was way cheaper. Every medium to large businesses flew. Even small businesses flew people around. Don’t know at the times, maybe dozens, a particular guy was supposed to fly you but could not make it so they sent someone else. You trusted them to a certain extent I guess. You would get in a strange borrowed aircraft. Many of those guys would let you fly so they could take a nap because they were out late. If the plane had autopilot it rarely worked. I got very good at flying all over the southeast and navigating by land. To a young man it was fun and challenging. When a pilot found out you could fly they were more than happy to let you have at it. Most people would call me a liar. If you are in your 60’s and 70’s and flew private a lot, you would agree with me. The things I saw were like the Wild West compared to today. I landed in the dark one night. The pilot had never landed at the airstrip, I had many times. Told him where to line up and turn final. We started coming in and spotted the gap in the trees and landed. He had a hot date 100 miles away and they forgot to leave the lights on. He dropped me off and took off on a dark strip. I wouldn’t do that stupid crap now for anything. But when your 21 and bulletproof it’s exciting. Funny part was the pilot received an ear full about that landing. He told them next time leave the lights on.
Not a pilot, just a guy who loves aviation. Watching the video, as soon as she panned over and I saw the door was open, my immediate thought was: "oh, there's your problem right there."
this is a very good lesson to learn from, thanks for having it recorded and debriefed as well. i noticed the passenger door was open before you mention it, and it came to my mind this will create a huge drag in addition to 6600 density altitude, as well as passing halfway of the runway. thank you all for the collaboration and came up with this conclusion
Or tell these people, we're not gonna do that for saftey reasons. I've been pressured to do things that were not safe as a truck driver by the customer and had to say no. It is difficult when you're young and have been raised to respect elders and those in authority.
@thomasnichols3950 Its not that big of a deal .It just takes 2 people to put it back on .One guy holds the door in place and wiggles it slightly, and the other guy installs the pins ..You can get it by yourself, it's just tricky that way .I have done this before both on a 172 and a 182 as well.But you are supposed to apply for a permit to do this.l think it's called a 337 or stc if I remember correctly.
Unfortunately they altered the scene so that their insurance could pay out. While I treated my husbands arm and strapping cable ties around my ankles so that we could walk and find medical assistance as no medical personnel were present. We had to go through a lake not knowing how deep it was to get to the other side. It was the longest walk of our lives. As our adrenaline decrease the pain became excruciating. I will never be able to fly again.
i always really like your videos, they are very to the point with all incredibly accurate info. thank you! and i'm so glad the occupants survived this crash.
@@JAleksandr I am from South Africa, flew 150’s and 177’s as a youngster in the ‘80’s just 80 miles South of there. Density Altitude was the be all and end all of any flight in that area, period. It’s 200 hour cowboys like this that give aviation a bad reputation today. Not much learnt about what not to do in 200 hours.
One of these days, I fully expect Hoover to have smoke coming out of his ears. I’ve worked in criminal law for nearly 40 years (not a lawyer!), so when I see something happen that resembles a 90’s TV show rather than laws on the books, it makes me nuts. I cannot imagine having Hoover’s knowledge and watching something like this. I stand by my opinion that, unless you’re in the strict environment of the military, no 20 year old is mature enough to handle this level of responsibility…and passengers should NEVER be allowed to dictate the operating condition of an aircraft. Gheesh!
That’s dumb. Pardon me if you saying you working in criminal law doesn’t make me take you any more seriously. Besides whatever drivel you just said. The US justice system is an absolute joke. People used to be a lot more mature. I knew a guy who got the silver star in Vietnam when he was 16. This guy should have done the necessary calculations. I remember learning this when i was 17.
One of my former coworkers/wingmen came from a wealthy aviation family. His first "car" at age 16 was an airplane and he got his CFI at age 19. He was 23 when I hired him. Now he flies international for FedEx. Suffice to say that 20 years old is plenty mature for some people to be a Commercial Pilot. The best part is I'm still a better tailwheel pilot than he ever was. 🤣
I had a student, probably 20-21 years old, with his license. I went flying with him 3 times. He was an excellent pilot (his goal was to be an astronaut). He performed careful pre-flight inspection, followed checklists, etc. It depends on the individual.
I think your really missing the point here of this video. Limited experience, training deficiencies, and a lack of currency , and non standard operation procedures, most certainly played an important role in the deficiencies on display by this pilot. However, your are completely wrong in your assessment that no pilot under 20 years old pilot is qualified for Commercial operations unless they received their training under what you call the "strict environment of the military". Having been in the airline business for over 25 years and flying as a pilot for over 35, I can tell you that there are hundreds of thousands of pilots out there today, like myself, who Flight Instructed, did Charter, or flew some other Commercial operation under the age of 20, safely with only Civilian training.
I saw the open door early in the video! I used to demonstrate to student pilots in C150s how the pitch of the aircraft will be affected by 'trying' to open both doors in cruise flight. If I remember correctly, trying to open each door individually induces a yaw away from the door that you're trying to open accompanied by a slight pitching up of the nose . Just trying to open the 172's door on takeoff would have acted like a left hand rudder input. It's no wonder that it stalled with the door tied fully open! In regards to the investigator's official report, "you can't fix stupid".
Wow!! That’s insane that this pilot overlooked so many things and completely doesn’t understand aerodynamics. Even a 200 hr pilot should know not to do this stuff. What a crazy negligent investigation too. Great catch Hoover. Very interesting video. Good advice for all of us!
Good work Hoover. I’m just completely shocked that the pilot agreed to all these bad decisions. I mean to strap the door to the strut. I’m speechless. Flaps down, plus being heavy in a high density altitude environment. 🤦♂️
That open passenger door was the first thing I noticed when the camera panned over. It's amazing that the pilot didn't think about the massive amount of drag that induces. Anyone who's ever tried to open a 172 door in flight will know that it's like a small parachute. We used 152's for our Commercial cross-countries, and it was common practice/entertainment to sit between the two seats during cruise and use both doors for steering instead of the yoke and rudders. lol
This blows my mind how horrible the investigation was, how does that even happen?! And the pilot as well, I've got so many questions. Love your videos!
@blancolirio is another channel you might be interested in. Juan Brown recently covered that B-17 mid-air collision at the Commemorative Air Force show a couple years ago.
Here's my comment from the UK. In the 1960s when I started flying almost all the flying instructors were ex WW2 pilots/instructors and all the aircraft such as the Tiger Moth were aerobatic. This meant that if you learned to fly in those days you were being taught by very experienced instructors and basic aerobatics were introduced very early on. (As an aside my father was one of these flying instructors and he often got students flying loops before first solo!). Also instructor courses were conducted by these veteran instructors and those new instructors would be well supervised when they started instructing. This level of supervision and experience continued through to about the mid 70s but then the wartime instructors started dying off! From maybe around year 2000 instructors did not have the benefit of being taught by experienced instructors, the level of supervision had reduced significantly and most of the training aircraft were not aerobatic (maybe semi-aerobatic but you couldn't loop them etc). For these reasons the standards have dropped considerably. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying all the new instructors are incompetent but they lack the background training of yesteryear and also the handling characteristics of modern aircraft are benign compared to previous times. I'm in my early 70s now and during all my airline pilot career I have stayed in practice instructing and continued to do so during retirement. Some of the things I have witnessed at my local GA airfield by so called qualified (commercial) pilots have horrified me so when I see the causes of an accident like this I am no longer surprised. As to the "investigation" words fail me!
One time during my training, my instructor pushed the door open on our C152, just to show me how much of an effect it will have on the aircraft. You could perhaps use it to help navigate or such if your controls were not operating properly (I guess any last ditch effort). The amount of drag and yaw it introduced to the airplane was astonishing, and he could barely force it open more than a foot or two.
i’m no pilot or investigator but this one is easy to figure out .. the wind sail tied open to the strut is a pretty obvious problem for an airplane with a lawn mower engine
I worked in the SA Aviation industry for nearly 40 years. Unfortunately since the change of government in 1995 the quality of the CAA inspectors and the CAA in general has become appallingly bad. It is one of a few reasons why I left the industry in 2005.
@@spacelemur7955 Who mentioned race? Are you a race baiter perhaps? South Africa is screwed because of communist inspired incompetence, greed and an insatiable appetite for power, as you admitted. SA is not screwed because of a lack education. Deal with it.
Dude, you nailed this one! Incredibly interesting video, and incredibly interesting and accurate critique of the botched investigation. When I saw that the window and door was actually open, in that last part of the video, that was the first thing that came to mind, and then when I saw that you pointed out that they had actually tied it to the strut that was literally the nail in the coffin. Great video!
Ok i have been watching countless air disasters for months and im ready to launch some opinions. First off love your content. You are humble and professional man so keep it up.
@@Aotearoa_Kiwi Yeah, no idea if what they said about being the mayor's son is true or not; just that they probably didn't mean Johannesburg. Who knows where the 'mayor' story came from. S'been a couple of years since I've been in that part of the world.
In my M model you can only open the pilot side window, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the same in that E. It’s only a couple of pins to remove the door though.
Great pick up and analysis. Also explains why aircraft was getting pushed left. The corrective rudder required to overcome the asymmetrical drag would also contribute to drag and decreased performance
South Africa's integrity hasn't been the best. I wouldn't be surprised if the investigation was rushed through. It might also be possible for a pilot to buy the report they want.
I know of cases where Commercial Pilots Licenses in SA could be bought. My son was made the offer. Still have that CAA Officials Business Card hanging on my wall.
Nope the NTSB takes years to come out with a report and they don't care about raising awareness or even reporting what really happened. Most people take TH-camrs for granted but without guys like Hoover and Gryder and Blanco we wouldn't get accurate info about what not to do.
As I ponder learning to fly and studying for a PPL, I'd like to thank you for providing content insight into the side of piloting that most tend to not talk about. Lessons can be learned from the dark side.
My instructor always said “You can abort a takeoff, and you can always go around on a bad landing.” We also always did (and I still do) a thorough preflight no matter how routine or short the flight. I’ve spent as much time in preflight as I have on the actual flight for quick siteseeing with a friend.
Great job Hoover! I would like to add a thought. I fly a 172M that was crashed previously manufactured with a lycoming 160hp engine, with 2300lb gross in the original poh. It was then rebuilt with a lycoming o-360 180 hp. The STC that certifies that new engine gives a whole set of new performance charts, it also includes an increase of max gross to 2550 lbs. I couldn’t find for sure if there was a conversion for an E model, but my guess would be that it had an stc and that’s where they got the “POH” gross weight
I considered that or a similar possibility but with everything else that was wrong with the investigation I had zero confidence they looked up the correct data. I think they just googled it.
I am not a pilot (did an intro flight and realized flying is very expensive), but have enjoyed watching these videos as I think many of the lessons can be applied to other things in life. Hoover, you do a good job explaining things.
Hoover, after your last livestream I gained a tremendous amount of appreciation and respect for you. You showing your human side and being a bit emotional made this all feel more personable. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your honest, opinions. You and Juan brown have taught me so much. ❤❤❤ stay blessed, be safe!
Wow let’s increase induced drag then try to climb out with MCA, what could possibly go wrong? Surprised he didn’t drag the brakes too just for added suspense on the 2 mile take off roll…
Because, it's not relevant to the defriefing of what happened. They all survived surprisingly, so lesson learned and for others, don't try this. Even a student pilot *has* to start questioning whats wrong. A 737 could take off with that much runway.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
The investigation was only 3 pages long if you take out the photos and charts. Even if they didn’t have the video, they could’ve done a much better job.
Full video is up on my Patreon since TH-cam doesn’t like people posting videos that show “strong moments of impact”.
If you want to see another plane crash filmed from inside the aircraft then check out this video: Pilot's Reckless Mistakes Caught on Camera!
th-cam.com/video/ALHAv5m9p1g/w-d-xo.html
Sad to see this. I hope this stuff isn't coming to USA
Ridiculous investigation. Thanks for highlighting.
This case just goes to show how deep corruption is embedded in Africa. We cant even do a proper investigation because there are people who are being protected from accountability hence the shoddy investigation. Too bad for them, the video counters all the bs they are going out of their way to hide. Thanks for calling out this mess for what it is🤷🏿♂️
There is probably a connection of some sort between the pilot and the investigator(s).
The lead investigator had only "nearly 8 months experience" and was hired under Federal DEI "provisions"
The pilot here isnt a real pilot, and the investigator isnt a real investigator. Total incompetence.
What's the bets the young pilot has family with connections?
@@PaulJakmaIf you’re in GA in RSA then yes, it’s very likely.
South Africa is not a civilized country 🤡
Even the photographer should have known better.
Welcome to South Africa.
What the hell??? That takeoff roll was forever! Followed by an immediate stall indicator. The damn door was tied open? Why not just tether a parachute to your tail???
The amount of carelessness is astonishing. Lucky they walked away.
That report is a JOKE. Wow.
Welcome to SA. The whole country is a joke.
@@Drakewyrm the low hour requirement is a bit unsettling…😂😂 That’s nuts.
That pilot is a joke too, Should NEVER have allowed that door fixed to the strut and go fly.
@@DrakewyrmAnyone that has watched SA congress in session knows how true that is. HONG HONG! 😂
Yep, this sums up all of our reactions.
I cannot believe that 4 people , including a pilot, thought having a door open was just fine. It's like a giant flap wtf
Where is the forth person, dropped out of the open door? I cont three, Elizabeth, her husband and the pilot...1:50
Seriously, if they wanted to fly without the doors, they could have just taken a Boeing flight
Seriously, if they wanted to fly without the doors, they could have just taken a Boeing flight
@@devonwilliams2423 Damn why didn't I think of that one
@@devonwilliams2423 Update: They've changed their name to BOIIIIINNNNGGG
Aircraft mechanic here with around 8 years working on 172s: it takes about 3 minutes to remove and install the door on a 172. The hinge pins just pop out and then you undo the cotter pin on the door hold open strap clevis pin. That's literally it. You can do the entire operation with a single pair of long nose pliers.
Considering the dumbness of that guy, are you sure he was able to remove a door without a chainsaw?
@@crisp.3481 For convenience he tied the chainsaw to a makeshift extension pole with straps and it already has cable ties holding the throttle fully open. Problem solved
And why in the first place are we OK with removing the door to make pictures? Really?!?. I mean I don't like the wings when I go on vacation either when I have a window seat, and these big noisy fans underneath even less. but hey, who's asking me. Right.
@@retinaquesterPlenty of small airplanes without doors. Nothing strange at all. What’s really strange is how a commercial pilot have such limited understanding of aerodynamics that he thinks it’ll be ok taking off with a big spoiler deployed.
Second that. I have over 1200 skydives, mostly from Cessnas, quite a few from the 172, and removing & replacing the door is a piece of old takkie [Sorry, that's a South African expression].
I have also seen quite a few skydiving accident investigation reports and considering that until the time I was last associated with skydiving, the field was only a few hundred strong and unable to sustain full-time staff, the investigations done by amateur safety consultants were a couple of orders of magnitude better than this one.
Just as a matter of interest, I wonder if the investigation was done by an actual DCA [Dept of Civil Aviation, equiv of FAA] staff member or the local flight school deputy chief instructor. Rhetorical, I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is the level the civil servants have fallen to in SA.
Having the door tied to the strut was insane. That pilot should find another hobby.
When you think you have heard every excuse for pilot error there is, along comes thismguy who ties his door open.
I wouldn’t even do that on one of my R/C planes… sounds like he’s not qualified even to fly models 😊
bringing groceries back from home with the bags hanging from my arm, on a motorcycle, already destroys the performance of the bike and makes it almost impossible to ride.... now imagine this genius, tying a door to a vehicle whose survivability depends 100% on drag efficiency... this guy should not be allowed to drive, let alone fly
It was also acting as his secondary rudder wanting to push the plane to the left, not the wind.
Why the FUCK do you tie a door to a strut? It is exactly like a car: door is open during parking, and even then you close it again. And during flight, the door is closed. During take off, you do not want an amateur air brake. What was wrong with that pilot?! Even if you notice such an error, you take a decision: break off take off, or not. But even unexperienced pilots have been warned about stalling, first thing you do is drop the nose, most planes even do that themselves.
In short, this pilot failed flying the plane, my guess is panic or freezing in fear. A better pilot could do an emergency landing, and probably survived. These aluminum planes are incredibly strong, they really protect the people onboard. That is your last hope, when going down. A rough emergency landing is way better than just falling from the sky. I still don't get why that pilot did not keep flying the plane, even with that door you can fly. Do some slip the other way, whatever, keep that airspeed okay. Jesus! Even I know such things.
Incompetence from a government agency in South Africa? No way! My shock! 😲😲
This is South Africa , normal😊
I'm lost for words. Total incompetence by the pilot and investigator.
but you had 11.
This is poor airmanship followed by an appalling crash investigation... As a South African it's pretty embarrassing
The real embarrassment here is the Affliction t-shirt
DEI
Everything rhar comes out of SA of late is embarrassing
More embarrassing than load-shedding? I have family there, SA has gone downhill quite a bit. It’s basically a third-world country these days, sending prayers for you guys.
Ja, Boet! Dis 'n gemors!
Tying a door open?! Are you kidding me?! That's got to be the dumbest thing I've ever seen
Surprised he wasn't trying to pull a trailer behind the plane.
Calling out the investigator 😂 damn right !
South Africa's Finest
@@0101-s7v Maybe IQ70 pass 30% and a bundle of hand washing money for the investigator, no problemo partner. Welcome to the new SA.
When the crash investigator is as bad as the pilot?!
I’m wondering if the investigator wrote it out that way for insurance purposes….
It’s S Africa so maybe it was a diversity hire? Actually, I’ll amend that, not ‘maybe’.
You got me by surpise with that "door opened" LOL, that was like a movie with a plot twist 😂
Yeah, the whole thing was a disaster, then the "bomb" gets tossed in!
While taxiing, a lot of pilots will tell you as the passenger to hold your door open.
The reason being, if there is a collision during taxing with another plane, you want to be able to get out of the plane.
A collision may jam doors closed, and in the even of an engine fire, you're then fubar.
@@choppergirl - That's during taxi.....not during take off.
They tied the door open. They might as well have been dragging a parachute behind them..
@@christopherweise438 Was just my random FYI
based on what I saw in the comments; I didn't actually watch it that long.
I've been preaching what he's saying at 3:30 for years. Get that nose down in a stall, get that throttle and airspeed up. Take off is when you're engine is most likely to fail; scope out the fields ahead of you always before you take off and land straight ahead. There is no go around. Fly the wing not the engine.
Of course, being a quadcopter aerobatic pilot, I fly nothing but the engine all the time, so... ironic. But I started my aviation career with antique ultralight motorgliders. You just use the engine to gain alitutde without a tow craft, then you cut the engine off and glide back to the airport. Every landing in a glider is a dead stick landing.
Yea... kind of click baity... I'm not a fan of that. I tent to block channels like that...
This guy is litterally the best flight accident debriefer on the internet.
This is what guys learn who fight for out country in fighter jets. I am glad we have guys like him fighting for our freedom.
he's very good and i enjoy his content, but i think mentorpilot deserves a shout out. his content is as good.
Shoutout to you for going through every single one of them on the internet so you could confidently (and definitely not incorrectly or unnecessarily like everybody else on the planet) use the word "literally". Sounds like a lot of work. Well done
That's astounding! You don't need to be a pilot to understand the drag implication of a door tied open! OMG!
Too stupid to comprehend...who flies with a door TIED to the strut!! WTH. PURE parasite drag
Even in a car the forces are insane!
Nah, the real issue is that the window wasn’t rolled down
Exactly what I was thinking. I honestly believe that having never flown before that I would have issued the stick forward with the stall warning blaring. WTF was he thinking!
@@gregmarchegiani6656 Real funny.
Great analysis Hoover. I'm an ex pilot, and I was shouting at the screen during the whole attempted take off. If you are trying to take off, and the stall warning is squeaking at you at rotate speed, you have a problem. I've seen C 172's doing impressive STOL demos with a competent pilot, this was a f*ckup from first opening the throttle. Glad they all got out ok though.
Yeah, except they will never fly again, especially with that so called pilot.
This pilot's screw ups most likely started before he ever entered aviation, however.
I’m not even a pilot and nor will ever be but even I was giving the screen dubious looks as I watched the takeoff roll. I was wondering why they hadn’t reached V1 yet and that maybe it was time to abort even before they crossed over the lines.
Then I recognised the stall horn blaring moments after takeoff and my doubts increased dramatically. Given the runway was so long I was thinking maybe they should land before they got much further.
It’s a BAD thing when you’re making so many bad decisions and mistakes that you got a non-pilot watching and recognising things that you aren’t.
@@jimw1615Jesus loves you all ❤️ his the only why to heaven❤
This is one of the few videos in which I have experience as a pilot in the type. Hearing the stall warning going off when trying to rotate... like, I wonder what was going through the pilot's mind. Another great review.
What was going through the pilot's mind? Common sense apparently can't travel through a vacuum. 🤣 The crash investigators were equally useless.
It's South Africa !!! We don't even have electricity anymore . Never mind competent accident investigators .
Long Live Cyril Ramaphosa and his cronies.
We can barely afford electricity.
Now being overrun by illegals.
Collapse ahead.
@@fahadfaisal7855Jesus loves you all ❤️ his the only why to heaven❤
Terreblanche was right.
Unfortunately that's the truth!
what!!!!!! I absolutely can NOT believe this! The moment the camera panned over to the right, I saw the door open and I thought he must be holding it open with his foot! CLOSE IT!! In my 47 years of flying, I have seen a lot of ridiculous accidents but this one tops them all!
If you’re going to mess with the airframe, try and mess with the airframe symmetrically. 🤣
I was flabbergasted. That door was as a giant air brake. And no wonder he was being pushed to the left. My God man, almost a Darwin award winner here.
@@fleasname definitely a candidate. What an idiot.
Humans have lost common sense , this just verifies that .
My husband specifically asked the owner to remove to door as he has been doing aerial photography for many years. The owner didn't want to remove the hinges and tied the door to the aircraft. Everyday I wish that we didn't get on that plane, because we never had a normal day ever since. We do hope that other passengers will be aware of the dangers involved and aboard the flight.
Welcome to South Africa ! The investigation is a showcase of the seriousness of all the administration of that once upon a time fabulous country!
Still a fabulous country, like the USA, just incompetent rulers! 😁😎👍✌🗽
They`re ruining America too.
Yep, damn lucky the runway wasn't full of pot holes and they could get clean fuel. I live with this incompetence every day.
Rest in Peace SA
Africa for Africans.
Great job, Hoover! I’ve been a professional pilot for 38 years now and have done a lot of aviation safety work, but for once I was completely surprised by the cause of this accident. What an absolutely embarrassing “investigation”.
What I have seen in general aviation, I was not surprised in the least. Recently we have been doing better. (Both maintenance and piloting).
I'd be willing to be that the pilot didn't lean the mixture for a high density altitude either and that plus the door being open made it pretty much impossible to get out of ground effect.
Sure, the engine didn't sound as if take off rpm, more like cruzing
Km in TV ghost@@70stang250
@@Val-hj3st That's what I was thinking too, that engine did not sound like it was generating near enough power for takeoff, even through the gopro microphone.
What I like about this video is that it doesn't treat the investigation as this holy thing that's not to be questioned. Quite often those documents are amazing, and the investigators are brilliant people most of the time.
But like everything that's made by humans, they sometimes suck, and we need to figure out when that happens, and why.
Also, who ties their door open, and then flies like that? I'm not even a student pilot (but did study a lot of the theory), and this gives me the shivers. Like, compared to the wing of an 172, a door is huge. And even worse, the parasitic drag is probably like doubled in most situations. How do you even begin to think this is a good idea?
In South Africa this is called affirmative action meaning that in order for you to get the job you need to be preferably of colour, the darker the better , and to hell with your qualifications if any at all.
Greetings from 🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦
The investigation WAS a holy thing! It's logic was full of holes!😅
@@MeMe-gm9diObvious answer to your initial question.... Nobody for long!😮😊
@@comancheflyer4903Sounds like the very path United has seemingly chosen to take. . . And I won't be surprised when we start to see the same type of results.
I'm no pilot, but I think strapping that door open is just madness
You mentioned at the beginning of this video, "that he wasn't flying enough to stay ahead of the aircraft". That is exactly when I knew it was time for me to stop flying and I did. Not only was it disconcerting to not stay ahead of the aircraft, but it was also no longer enjoyable to fly in that state of degraded competency.
How many hours did you log before you decided to stop? And why did your competency degrade? If you don’t mind me asking such personal questions…
I’m a student pilot getting close to the checkride as well as closing in on my 56th birthday, and now that the CFI is acting more like a passenger than an instructor, and letting me make the decision, I have had a few instances of poor decision making. Nothing as stupid as tying a door to a wing strut to keep it open, but something that - under the right circumstances - might escalate into a serious incident. Nice teachable moments that I rather have with a CFI yelling at me instead of when I’m up there alone, and according to the CFI everyone has these moments. But I do want to be aware of my own level of competence, understanding that some things do get worse with age. So I am curious how you reached the decision to quit flying.
@@kaasmeester5903 I'd be happy to share that. Thank you for asking.
I had completed by PPL flight training in an intense flight program offered to Marine Corps Officer (PLC) Candidates, called the Civilian Pilot Training (CPT) Program. I did so, during the last 4 months of my senior year of college and before I graduated and was commissioned into the Marine Corps. My report date for my first MC duty was in October, so I had flown just over 200 hours in 8 months and was extremely on top of my flying. So, after becoming a fully active Marine Corps officer (6 years), getting married, and starting a family, my financial and time priorities changed away from that of flying. The few times I did fly in that transitional time (after reporting for active duty) was with other private pilots. Every time I did fly, I really didn't have the sense of accomplishment and competency flying that I had had during earlier times. I knew my ability to fly safely was finished and at the same time that my priorities were not going to change back to support a safe and competent flying regimen. So, that was the end to my dreams as a 10-year-old child of being a commercial airline pilot. But I have had a great life going down the paths that I have chosen none the less.
Thanks for sharing your story. I think you made a wise decision.
@@pilot-debrief Yes, one of the reasons I have made it to 73 is that I was never a Bold pilot. My last name is Wise, but its label has not always worked for me; that factor keeps me humble.
@@kaasmeester5903 I was 55 when I passed my checkride, so right there with you. And I too made my share of poor decision making. The worst part was beating myself overly much on it which inhibited me as it seemed anything less than perfect was a fail. At a certain point you just have to rely on your training. We'll never have 30 year old eyesight or reflexes anymore, but we can be good pilots if we do what we're trained to do. Focus on your weak area and get those reps in. If you hit a plateau (like I did with short/soft), maybe try someone new. Performance t/o & landings was where I was stuck for a long time until I flew with someone else who explained it differently and boom - it was like a lightbulb went off.
My pops was an airline mechanic for one of the biggest for 25 years. This channel is so well put together and Hoover is one of the best in the industry. Love to you and your dedication to teaching all of us.
the pilot is incompetent, the passenger knows NOTHING, and the investigator is incompetent. Tie the door open????? What are you ?NUTS?
No, just idiotic. . . 😂
Wow....turning a door into a source of drag on one side is one of the dumbest things ever.....
It was to counter torque on takeoff lol.
the fact the pilot later reported a "crosswind" just illustrates how clueless to the basic concept of aerodynamics he was. although that may have just been a blatant lie as the investigators were clearly either stupid or corrupt enough not to actually "investigate" his story
If he'd thought about it, he could have tied the other door open too for balance -or maybe he ran out of tape?
Wouldnt trust most oversight in South Africa, the country is totally fucked.
just look at the biggest ahole from there ELON MUSK
What does that have to do with missing brains?
Yeah. They wanted independence and to end the appartheid to have the garbage country they have now.
Damn… 😩
Sadly, this is true, South Africans deserve so much better.
Absolutely nuts that he would think he could tie the door open. What an idiot.
When I was instructing, I had students take off in 172s at reduced RPM power settings to simulate density altitude. It's a real surprise to them the first time they do it and realize not only how long the roll is, but how shallow the departure is.
My helicopter instructor did the same thing, with sliding takeoffs, to simulate high altitude takeoffs where you couldn't hover. We did slide-on landings the same way.
i've never flown a skyhawk (a lie, but not really, I've been a left seat front passenger in one) and I felt that in my bones - prob because I know how shallow the departure is in a skyhawk not operating at special density altitude
I'm gonna go.ahead and say, this pilot sounds like he shouldn't be flying? Like to hear what HIS instructors say about him.
The door tied open is perhaps the dumbest thing I've ever seen a puddle jumper pilot do.
You're pretty safe saying that.
It actually makes total dense to me.
It's called, "Anything to keep the pretty girl happy.".
This frequently overrides a young pilot's judgment and faculties.
no kidding, this guy did not know the basic principles of how an airplane flys !!!
What's a 'puddle jumper'?
His instructor says "Yee brew Timmy's good eh, I recommumund hum!"
You sound like a very well educated and experienced pilot. The way you break these debriefs down is very entertaining. You have a natural ability to turn things into something. Great channel. Great content.
He discusses his bio in one of these..heez a baaadass ex military fighter jet pilot and Comercial pilot now...suuuper good at these debriefs...
Welcome to South Africa! That, dear friends, is not just how air crash investigations are done, but how the entire country is run.
South Africa used to be a great country up until they ended Apartheid.
@@haywoodyoudome You're so right. Apartheid was wrong, but what has been happening here for the past 30 years is much worse. It's a matter of time before we end up like the rest of Africa.
@@haywoodyoudome Forced to end Apartheid
THE RICH aholes obviously run the country, like old ELON the moron
and the city is running out of water for the second time in the last 4 years!
OMG! Unbelievable stupidity! This guy should have his license revoked.
nah, typical south African corruption would result in a report like this, and he could buy a new license an hour later anyway.
And the "investigators" fired.
Just looked up "Stupid" in the dictionary. There was a photograph of the pilot.
@@andre-7423 THAT explains a LOT of why ELON MUSK is the person (ahole) he is !!
It is insane that this guy had a license, I mostly just fly flight sims on a home PC setup and most of what was going on was obvious, and keeping the high angle of attack with the stall alarm going off... really?
*I can't even finish the video past 9 minutes. The complete stupidity of the "investigation", the pilot not using his brain, I just can't..*
One good thing about Hoover videos is I can click "thumbs up" before even seeing them.
I still wait 'til the end. Hoover is human, too!
@@MikePierce-u2p Yeah, but from the past experience he lives up to the expectations.
I do the exact same thing for the best providers and Hoover is one of them.
Sounds like the idiot pilot has friends in high places. He truly is an idiot and I hope they took his license away for life and his passengers sue his ass off for everything he is worth.
Every single time 👍👍👍
When you mentioned the door being tethered to the wing strut I spat my coffee out! It was the icing on the cake pretty much .
More like the s*** hitting the fan!😊
No, you didn't.
Somehow during the initial watching of the video, I noticed the door open and my mouth dropped - wondering how it could be held open. Then Hoover pointed out this cause.
I don’t usually like these kind of videos but good job getting the corrections out and doing the homework that was really supposed to be done by the investigators. Kind of sad that someone out there is getting paid to get everything so wrong and you could show it so easily. Thanks again
The incompetence of that pilot is mind-boggling. How can you even get a license without understanding any of the basics?
Friends in high places & all that...
Much less commercial...
@@anneofgreengables1619 Like TNFlygirl... although I suspect she got hers from opening the right fly at the right time.
Ban flight, problem solved.
@@TonyRule You don't actually have to go that far...
Unbelievable!! I’m shocked that a pilot with such little experience can take passengers on a “commercial” flight but I’m even more astounded at the sheer incompetence of whatever entity undertook that investigation.
They are probably connected since the pilot came so 'highly recommended'
You were allowed to take passengers the moment they handed you your first driver's license. Once certified, that's all that matters.
@@SoloPilot6 that’s not the same thing and you know it. They’ll give any moron a drivers licence in the US. In Europe it’s more difficult but in a car if you get out of your depth you can just pull over. Not quite as easy in an aircraft.
@@thesushifiend There's no difference. None, whatsoever. Get your ticket, take passengers. Whether it's a car, a bus, or a Cessna.
@@greg6126 The 1500 hour requirement is for an Airline Transport Pilot certificate; you can still get a Commercial Pilot certificate in the US at 250 hours (190 if graduating from a part 141 school). But as stated, the vast majority of pilots with the right training and attitude are quite professional and safe, no matter how many hours they have. I took passengers flying all the time (not for hire) in 172's and 182's when I had 200 hours; even flew some aerial photography sorties in CAP. I never would've dreamed of tying the door to the strut. Complete insanity.
Zygote pilot here, in the making. Your Channel is extremely helpful! Learning from other people's mistakes is HUGELY important 💯 thank you 🙏
A commercial pilot that doesnt understand drag... Scary stuff.
An other great video, thanks again
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
WHO will he KILL next time ?
I’d also be interested to see where the mixture was at, maybe pilot had it on full rich, at this high altitude airport. RPMs don’t sound like they are highest rpm. The tied open door though, is so incredibly stupid.
I am so impressed by your level of professionalism. You are both doing an awesome by doing your own investigation that has a much better quality than the official investigation, but you are also doing a public outreach. Basically, your one-person-shop is outperforming the official office in charge of investigating accidents and feeding the lessons learned back to the community. Not to mention that you are a water hole for aviators caring about safety and protocols.
Thank you so much. We don't want anyone to go through such a traumatic experience. I just thought... That was it. I am going to see my husband die in front of me. So I just closed my eyes and kept them closed until I heard his voice. I remember saying to myself "this can't be real" , "this is not happening right now".
Another excellent video. I really love how you simply stick to the facts and put things into the right perspective.
During my initial flight training, also in a 172, I vividly recall my instructor demonstrating how much effect the door has on the flight characteristics of the plane. Its been a lot of years, but my memory is that he even said in an emergency, it can be used to help slip a plane or as a speed brake. Thankfully I never needed to deploy the door - but it did reinforce how just a little change in the aerodynamics of the plane can make a huge difference in the way it flys!
I'll bet you even heard of trim tabs!😁
500 hours in a 172 here and I never would’ve guessed the door was tied open to the strut!
That is absolutely insane!!
SO much drag!
Along with all the other mistakes he made.. SMH just speechless.
This dude probably shouldn’t be flying. That is absolutely inexcusable.
Glad he wasn’t able to gain more altitude cause this could’ve been so much worse.
Thanks for making these videos.
If they managed to get more altitude and land safely afterwards would've been a worse ending.... cause the pilot would've missed this importan lesson, and a MUCH worse scenario would be cooking in a near future LOL!
It sounded like tying the door open was someone else idea who runs the operation. The company should be shut down at least make the company name known so public can stay clear of them.
I have never flown a plane, but love watching these analysis of incidents videos from this channel, Scott Perdue flywire and Blancolirio channel.
I have gained so much info about causes of aviation accidents, that even I could understand and could make the call on what caused this crash. This pilot and his instructor should be re-evaluated for competency.
Thank you so much. We hope that this will make a difference in someone's life.
Opening and holding a door on a Cessna creates a tremendous amount of drag and creates its own yaw. This is probably the single most contributing factor in this accident besides the pilot not rejecting the takeoff.
I own a Cessna 172 . I did no realize a 172 could do that long of a take off run , hell he burned 2 gallons of fuel on that take off run .
The door is why the plane moved to the left once they got some speed. Giant rudder.
With the right door open, wouldn't you expect the aircraft to yaw to the right though?
Should have been to the right instead of the left
@@TheDaar97 could have been countering it with the actual rudder. No sense in arguing about it, there’s a video and you can see it moved to the left, into the wind.
The door deflected air to the right creating a high pressure area on the right side of the fuselage. If this high pressure deflection was at the rear the plane would yaw to the right. If it was at the nose the plane would yaw to the left. Centered deflected pressure pushed the plane to the left.
@@doylefab8945BINGO! In layman's terms, the plane was following the path of least resistance! The fact that neither the "pilot" or "investigator" appreciated this, is mind-boggling!
Hi Hoover, LOVE your channel! I'm not a pilot, but I dated a Cobra Gunship pilot from New River MCAS & an A-6 pilot from Cherry Point MCAS. ( NOT at the same time!) Both drove me nuts with their charts & calculations. The latter even accused me of loving his plane more than I loved him. You do a much better debrief with much more polite language. Keep up the good work!
Yes, pilots can be insane, I've known a few, but almost all old pilots are good pilots.
Pilots can be a… very special breed. It can take a person with a personality type to date and love a pilot. My bf is an airline pilot so I speak from experience. Also several of my friends are airline pilots-not really a surprise given I work on the ground crews.
Of course it helps that I like aviation too and have learned enough to understand it when he talks about his day at work (most of the time.) And probably that my life is equally dependent upon the airport operational needs as he is.
Independence in being unbothered when he’s not around for a few days, trust, not affixing too much importance to being available on specific dates (aka celebrating a birthday a few days before or after the actual day,) and rolling with the quirks, charts, high organisational awareness and precision can be helpful.
@@mikoto7693Jesus loves you all ❤️ his the only why to heaven❤
Might as well give me the job of investigating crashes at this rate. Amazing debrief. Thank you.
Your videos have educated me enough to ask a private pilot about their hours and experience. Thank you
Right. Sadly, in the past, I would have been one of the people who would say, well if the pilot has a license surely they're proficient. Now I know better.
I've always figured that a pilot wouldn't risk their own life so they must know what they're doing 🤷♀️🤦♀️
As a pro pilot I welcome the questions. (Related to the flight at hand of course)
I carried a pad and pencil for years when making flights with pilots I didn’t know. Made a lot of trips in singles and light twin in the 70’s and 80’s. I would gather the numbers and go to piss before we took off. In the bathroom I did all my own weight and fuel calculations. Now I could act like texting and do them all standing by the plane with a smart phone. 😂
@@dougtaylor7724 I and, I think, most pilots would appreciate someone double checking our work. If the pilot's ego is that fragile that you feel you have to hide what you're doing, maybe that's a sign to find another pilot.
@@johnopalko5223 Back then the flying world was sooo different. There were old guys from WW2 that never had a private license. Everybody assumed they did because they flew in the war. Flying was way cheaper. Every medium to large businesses flew. Even small businesses flew people around. Don’t know at the times, maybe dozens, a particular guy was supposed to fly you but could not make it so they sent someone else. You trusted them to a certain extent I guess. You would get in a strange borrowed aircraft.
Many of those guys would let you fly so they could take a nap because they were out late. If the plane had autopilot it rarely worked. I got very good at flying all over the southeast and navigating by land. To a young man it was fun and challenging. When a pilot found out you could fly they were more than happy to let you have at it.
Most people would call me a liar. If you are in your 60’s and 70’s and flew private a lot, you would agree with me. The things I saw were like the Wild West compared to today.
I landed in the dark one night. The pilot had never landed at the airstrip, I had many times.
Told him where to line up and turn final. We started coming in and spotted the gap in the trees and landed. He had a hot date 100 miles away and they forgot to leave the lights on. He dropped me off and took off on a dark strip. I wouldn’t do that stupid crap now for anything. But when your 21 and bulletproof it’s exciting.
Funny part was the pilot received an ear full about that landing. He told them next time leave the lights on.
Great video, Mr Hoover. I really believe you are saving lives and pilot's careers by helping to solidify these saftey fundamentals into our brains.
I really respect and appreciate you stepping up without hesitation to reveal actual research against the investigation instead of just reading it.
Man Hoover is knocking out the content! Thanks Hoover.
You bet!
Would love to get my P.P.L
but would fail the medical@@pilot-debrief
Not a pilot, just a guy who loves aviation.
Watching the video, as soon as she panned over and I saw the door was open, my immediate thought was: "oh, there's your problem right there."
this is a very good lesson to learn from, thanks for having it recorded and debriefed as well. i noticed the passenger door was open before you mention it, and it came to my mind this will create a huge drag in addition to 6600 density altitude, as well as passing halfway of the runway. thank you all for the collaboration and came up with this conclusion
Why not REMOVE the door versus turn it into a giant speed brake. Duuhhh….
Hover mentioned the pilot said it would be too hard to realign the door pins.
Or tell these people, we're not gonna do that for saftey reasons. I've been pressured to do things that were not safe as a truck driver by the customer and had to say no. It is difficult when you're young and have been raised to respect elders and those in authority.
They are really simple to get on and off so that’s something else the pilot didn’t understand.@@thomasnichols3950
@thomasnichols3950 Its not that big of a deal .It just takes 2 people to put it back on .One guy holds the door in place and wiggles it slightly, and the other guy installs the pins ..You can get it by yourself, it's just tricky that way .I have done this before both on a 172 and a 182 as well.But you are supposed to apply for a permit to do this.l think it's called a 337 or stc if I remember correctly.
@@thomasnichols3950 I did not catch Hoovers comment, Thanks!
Wow! Can't believe the accident report missed the door being tied open.
This is South Africa 2024. Nothing is impossible.
I live in South Africa and what you call gross incompetence we call Tuesday.
Unfortunately they altered the scene so that their insurance could pay out. While I treated my husbands arm and strapping cable ties around my ankles so that we could walk and find medical assistance as no medical personnel were present. We had to go through a lake not knowing how deep it was to get to the other side. It was the longest walk of our lives. As our adrenaline decrease the pain became excruciating. I will never be able to fly again.
i always really like your videos, they are very to the point with all incredibly accurate info. thank you! and i'm so glad the occupants survived this crash.
Stunning lack of adherence to general principals of flying.
And the problems with poorly done investigations like this is it reinforces bad behaviors on the parts of the pilots.
@@JAleksandr I am from South Africa, flew 150’s and 177’s as a youngster in the ‘80’s just 80 miles South of there. Density Altitude was the be all and end all of any flight in that area, period. It’s 200 hour cowboys like this that give aviation a bad reputation today. Not much learnt about what not to do in 200 hours.
One of these days, I fully expect Hoover to have smoke coming out of his ears. I’ve worked in criminal law for nearly 40 years (not a lawyer!), so when I see something happen that resembles a 90’s TV show rather than laws on the books, it makes me nuts. I cannot imagine having Hoover’s knowledge and watching something like this. I stand by my opinion that, unless you’re in the strict environment of the military, no 20 year old is mature enough to handle this level of responsibility…and passengers should NEVER be allowed to dictate the operating condition of an aircraft. Gheesh!
That’s dumb. Pardon me if you saying you working in criminal law doesn’t make me take you any more seriously. Besides whatever drivel you just said. The US justice system is an absolute joke. People used to be a lot more mature. I knew a guy who got the silver star in Vietnam when he was 16. This guy should have done the necessary calculations. I remember learning this when i was 17.
One of my former coworkers/wingmen came from a wealthy aviation family. His first "car" at age 16 was an airplane and he got his CFI at age 19. He was 23 when I hired him. Now he flies international for FedEx. Suffice to say that 20 years old is plenty mature for some people to be a Commercial Pilot. The best part is I'm still a better tailwheel pilot than he ever was. 🤣
I had a student, probably 20-21 years old, with his license. I went flying with him 3 times. He was an excellent pilot (his goal was to be an astronaut). He performed careful pre-flight inspection, followed checklists, etc. It depends on the individual.
I think your really missing the point here of this video. Limited experience, training deficiencies, and a lack of currency , and non standard operation procedures, most certainly played an important role in the deficiencies on display by this pilot. However, your are completely wrong in your assessment that no pilot under 20 years old pilot is qualified for Commercial operations unless they received their training under what you call the "strict environment of the military". Having been in the airline business for over 25 years and flying as a pilot for over 35, I can tell you that there are hundreds of thousands of pilots out there today, like myself, who Flight Instructed, did Charter, or flew some other Commercial operation under the age of 20, safely with only Civilian training.
Not a lawyer…. You mean you’re a criminal ?
I saw the open door early in the video! I used to demonstrate to student pilots in C150s how the pitch of the aircraft will be affected by 'trying' to open both doors in cruise flight. If I remember correctly, trying to open each door individually induces a yaw away from the door that you're trying to open accompanied by a slight pitching up of the nose . Just trying to open the 172's door on takeoff would have acted like a left hand rudder input. It's no wonder that it stalled with the door tied fully open! In regards to the investigator's official report, "you can't fix stupid".
It's amazing how bad the investigation report was. Another excellent video Hoover with several good take aways for all. Thanks!
Wow!! That’s insane that this pilot overlooked so many things and completely doesn’t understand aerodynamics. Even a 200 hr pilot should know not to do this stuff. What a crazy negligent investigation too. Great catch Hoover. Very interesting video. Good advice for all of us!
Unbelievable, thanks for posting!
Good work Hoover. I’m just completely shocked that the pilot agreed to all these bad decisions. I mean to strap the door to the strut. I’m speechless. Flaps down, plus being heavy in a high density altitude environment. 🤦♂️
That open passenger door was the first thing I noticed when the camera panned over. It's amazing that the pilot didn't think about the massive amount of drag that induces. Anyone who's ever tried to open a 172 door in flight will know that it's like a small parachute. We used 152's for our Commercial cross-countries, and it was common practice/entertainment to sit between the two seats during cruise and use both doors for steering instead of the yoke and rudders. lol
".... common practice/entertainment ..." 🙈
This blows my mind how horrible the investigation was, how does that even happen?! And the pilot as well, I've got so many questions. Love your videos!
Saw the ZS reg, read the description: "WORST accident investigation report". Not even surprised. How sad.
Between Hoover and Mentour Pilot you can see the negligence of some "pilots" in the industry.
Didn't the Cessna 172 have the nick name " Lead Sled " ? Purportedly they were under powered.?
@blancolirio is another channel you might be interested in. Juan Brown recently covered that B-17 mid-air collision at the Commemorative Air Force show a couple years ago.
Don't forget the grease monkey A&P's.
Here's my comment from the UK. In the 1960s when I started flying almost all the flying instructors were ex WW2 pilots/instructors and all the aircraft such as the Tiger Moth were aerobatic. This meant that if you learned to fly in those days you were being taught by very experienced instructors and basic aerobatics were introduced very early on. (As an aside my father was one of these flying instructors and he often got students flying loops before first solo!).
Also instructor courses were conducted by these veteran instructors and those new instructors would be well supervised when they started instructing.
This level of supervision and experience continued through to about the mid 70s but then the wartime instructors started dying off!
From maybe around year 2000 instructors did not have the benefit of being taught by experienced instructors, the level of supervision had reduced significantly and most of the training aircraft were not aerobatic (maybe semi-aerobatic but you couldn't loop them etc).
For these reasons the standards have dropped considerably. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying all the new instructors are incompetent but they lack the background training of yesteryear and also the handling characteristics of modern aircraft are benign compared to previous times.
I'm in my early 70s now and during all my airline pilot career I have stayed in practice instructing and continued to do so during retirement.
Some of the things I have witnessed at my local GA airfield by so called qualified (commercial) pilots have horrified me so when I see the causes of an accident like this I am no longer surprised.
As to the "investigation" words fail me!
@@fireflyrobert I too was trained by WW2 flying instructors back in the late 70's and airline instructors.
One time during my training, my instructor pushed the door open on our C152, just to show me how much of an effect it will have on the aircraft. You could perhaps use it to help navigate or such if your controls were not operating properly (I guess any last ditch effort).
The amount of drag and yaw it introduced to the airplane was astonishing, and he could barely force it open more than a foot or two.
i’m no pilot or investigator but this one is easy to figure out .. the wind sail tied open to the strut is a pretty obvious problem for an airplane with a lawn mower engine
You’re no pilot or investigator? No kidding. How many 100 hp lawnmowers do you have though?
@@DavidFerree54 It should have had 145 HP.
thank you for the polished and edited video, hoover
Great debrief as always. Not sure if anyone else noticed this either, but it sounded like the engine wasn't at full throttle during takeoff either.
I worked in the SA Aviation industry for nearly 40 years. Unfortunately since the change of government in 1995 the quality of the CAA inspectors and the CAA in general has become appallingly bad. It is one of a few reasons why I left the industry in 2005.
Maybe SA should have been addressing the educational needs of the entire country in the centuries prior to 1995.
@@spacelemur7955 One can not educate the people with an IQ of 68 and below. Greetings from a 6000 hour Heli pilot from SA.
@@spacelemur7955The president has enough “education from the centuries before” to stuff millions of USD into his furniture.
@@78XT500 It's not about race. White collar crime and corruption is about power.
@@spacelemur7955 Who mentioned race? Are you a race baiter perhaps? South Africa is screwed because of communist inspired incompetence, greed and an insatiable appetite for power, as you admitted. SA is not screwed because of a lack education. Deal with it.
Dude, you nailed this one! Incredibly interesting video, and incredibly interesting and accurate critique of the botched investigation. When I saw that the window and door was actually open, in that last part of the video, that was the first thing that came to mind, and then when I saw that you pointed out that they had actually tied it to the strut that was literally the nail in the coffin. Great video!
Ok i have been watching countless air disasters for months and im ready to launch some opinions. First off love your content. You are humble and professional man so keep it up.
Great to have you back, Hoover. I always enjoy your insights and explanations ever though I am not a pilot.
The Investigator should be FIRED...The Pilot's Father was the Mayor of the city.
The pilot's father is Kabelo Gwamanda? Are you sure??
@@Aotearoa_Kiwi Not Mayor ofJohannesburg, likely they mean Vereeniging.
@@MrGeorgeScatos I checked the list of Mayors of Vereeniging / Emfuleni and can't find any connect to a son having a plane crash.
@@Aotearoa_Kiwi Exactly.
@@Aotearoa_Kiwi Yeah, no idea if what they said about being the mayor's son is true or not; just that they probably didn't mean Johannesburg. Who knows where the 'mayor' story came from. S'been a couple of years since I've been in that part of the world.
Both passengers looking at the door wide open at the same time thinking it should be shut, need the confidence to speak up and say "this isn't right"
Excellent debrief and conclusion, Hoover! Thanks for your content!
Open door for filming from Cessna?! If you can open window and got very nice and clear shots? Cant believe…
In my M model you can only open the pilot side window, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the same in that E. It’s only a couple of pins to remove the door though.
@@kurtisf3366 Well fly from the right seat or get instructor to fly you. This kid was a complete wally.
@@kurtisf3366
The 172 I went in to take photos was the same. Only the pilot window opened. Not sure what exact model/age it was.
I fly an F model. It's built only a year later than this one. Only the pilot window opens.
@@alankreppert3226 Its possible, but then door removal isnt big deal... So for me no go to fly with door opened.
This is the first time I see an investigation done by the NTSB full of discrepancies. Thanks for sharing your insights!
That take off roll was so slow I thought they were going to drive instead of fly.
😂
he miss de road
Great pick up and analysis. Also explains why aircraft was getting pushed left. The corrective rudder required to overcome the asymmetrical drag would also contribute to drag and decreased performance
Yep - agreed .
The amount of hubris illustrated in these videos is truly astounding.
When Wile E. Coyote and Acme Flying Service meets Beavis and Butthead from the South African Civil Aviation Authority.
🤣 nice
South Africa's integrity hasn't been the best. I wouldn't be surprised if the investigation was rushed through. It might also be possible for a pilot to buy the report they want.
I know of cases where Commercial Pilots Licenses in SA could be bought. My son was made the offer. Still have that CAA Officials Business Card hanging on my wall.
In a country where a murder docket can be made to disappear for the equivalent of about US$250, anything is possible.
I appreciate your expertise in determining the actual problems, especially those ignored by supposed government 'experts'.
Wow, just wow.
Exactly!
It certainly makes me question every investigation. I hope the bad investigation gets properly reported.
Nope the NTSB takes years to come out with a report and they don't care about raising awareness or even reporting what really happened. Most people take TH-camrs for granted but without guys like Hoover and Gryder and Blanco we wouldn't get accurate info about what not to do.
No it won’t. This happened in South Africa! No one will get blamed for carelessness or incompetence.
As I ponder learning to fly and studying for a PPL, I'd like to thank you for providing content insight into the side of piloting that most tend to not talk about. Lessons can be learned from the dark side.
My instructor always said “You can abort a takeoff, and you can always go around on a bad landing.” We also always did (and I still do) a thorough preflight no matter how routine or short the flight. I’ve spent as much time in preflight as I have on the actual flight for quick siteseeing with a friend.
Unbelievable. Taking off with essentially a barn door instead of a wing.......what a "GOOD" idea!
I appreciate your concise videos, break downs and explanations.
Great job Hoover! I would like to add a thought. I fly a 172M that was crashed previously manufactured with a lycoming 160hp engine, with 2300lb gross in the original poh. It was then rebuilt with a lycoming o-360 180 hp. The STC that certifies that new engine gives a whole set of new performance charts, it also includes an increase of max gross to 2550 lbs. I couldn’t find for sure if there was a conversion for an E model, but my guess would be that it had an stc and that’s where they got the “POH” gross weight
Good info!
I considered that or a similar possibility but with everything else that was wrong with the investigation I had zero confidence they looked up the correct data. I think they just googled it.
Don't forget it goes faster!😁
I am not a pilot (did an intro flight and realized flying is very expensive), but have enjoyed watching these videos as I think many of the lessons can be applied to other things in life. Hoover, you do a good job explaining things.
Hoover, after your last livestream I gained a tremendous amount of appreciation and respect for you. You showing your human side and being a bit emotional made this all feel more personable. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your honest, opinions. You and Juan brown have taught me so much. ❤❤❤ stay blessed, be safe!
Wow let’s increase induced drag then try to climb out with MCA, what could possibly go wrong?
Surprised he didn’t drag the brakes too just for added suspense on the 2 mile take off roll…
Why you always cut the crash video? This actually needed for us to understand 😢
Because, it's not relevant to the defriefing of what happened. They all survived surprisingly, so lesson learned and for others, don't try this. Even a student pilot *has* to start questioning whats wrong. A 737 could take off with that much runway.
A pilot license or a driver license both allow idiots or the careless to operate vehicles.