Am I right in remembering you weren't too hot on Burgle Bros either? The two games - whilst not similar in mechanisms - seem to operate in a similar world - they are both co-ops that have a little more luck than some will like, but also pack a huge amount of theme and excitement.
Reminds me of London Dread - long thematic co-op that comes down to the roll of a fistful of dice. At least in Black Orchestra you get multiple attempts, in London Dread it's one single roll to beat the boss.
One of the few games I own that I regularly (re)play and gets better when playing more. I usually play solo with 3 characters. Sometimes I could execute three plots (failing at all three) and other times I didn't even manage executing a single plot. Once I won the game after attempting only one plot rather early in the game. Not easy to win on standard difficulty (I always mix the 'documents found' card in stage 7). I can recommend it though.
I think there is A LOT of control in this game, even as Military Support is high. You cannot have everybody prepare for the kill, others need to deal with group suspicion and reducing military strength. Yes it's a die roll to kill, but you can get multiple attempts. And the game isn't really about the kill, but the whole planning for it. I love it. It ranks among the great difficult cooperative games for me, like Freedom (which also has dice and card impact).
If I'm calculating correctly, rolling 6 dice against a military strength of 4 gives a 10% chance of success, 7 dice gives a 17% chance, and 8 dice gives about 25%. The chances are obviously much worse when the strength is higher. Does that sound right, and is it realistic to get that many dice if you strategize enough?
The real problem for me is the increased number of die increases the chances of critical failure. If I roll 6 die I have a 2 in 6 chance of rolling successes and a 1 in 6 chance of rolling an eagle. If I have anything other than low in suspicion then if I get more than 1 eagle it's off to KY City. I'm fine with failing but when I played we all just could not stay out of jail. Everything we did sent someone there, and then while that person was there they were doing nothing but spewing info on us causing everyone else to get locked up. Just alot of feel bads vs the number of epic moments.
I have played 2 times now, but both times were on easy level (won both times). There is definite luck mitigation in the game, like collecting enough items (hard to do), keeping military support low, keeping suspicion low, getting a decent plot card, finding the Quick Reaction or Officer Recruited cards, etc. Doing all of that is a challenge and it's very disheartening when you manage to do it and fail the roll. However, I will say the thrill of succeeding outweighs the negatives. I will be playing the game on medium difficulty next time. I think it's a pretty decent design. Kudos to Philip duBarry.
9:20 sold (I think). On one hand, I LOVE story telling games. On the other hand, I really dislike "XCOM: The Board Game" because success/failure depends so much on dice rolls. Hmm, torn... a big selling point is that the goal of the game is to kill Hitler (odd that there's not more games with that end goal).
I've been interested in Black Orchestra since before Gen Con, but have not spent a lot of time researching yet. I want to like the game, but this review helps me understand that the chance aspect may be too strong for my tastes. Still, I want to like it - so I guess I have a dilemma :)
Am I right in remembering you weren't too hot on Burgle Bros either? The two games - whilst not similar in mechanisms - seem to operate in a similar world - they are both co-ops that have a little more luck than some will like, but also pack a huge amount of theme and excitement.
he did not like Burgle Bros.
Reminds me of London Dread - long thematic co-op that comes down to the roll of a fistful of dice. At least in Black Orchestra you get multiple attempts, in London Dread it's one single roll to beat the boss.
One of the few games I own that I regularly (re)play and gets better when playing more. I usually play solo with 3 characters. Sometimes I could execute three plots (failing at all three) and other times I didn't even manage executing a single plot. Once I won the game after attempting only one plot rather early in the game. Not easy to win on standard difficulty (I always mix the 'documents found' card in stage 7). I can recommend it though.
Yes mostly if you do win, it’s early, or late!
I think there is A LOT of control in this game, even as Military Support is high. You cannot have everybody prepare for the kill, others need to deal with group suspicion and reducing military strength.
Yes it's a die roll to kill, but you can get multiple attempts. And the game isn't really about the kill, but the whole planning for it.
I love it. It ranks among the great difficult cooperative games for me, like Freedom (which also has dice and card impact).
If I'm calculating correctly, rolling 6 dice against a military strength of 4 gives a 10% chance of success, 7 dice gives a 17% chance, and 8 dice gives about 25%. The chances are obviously much worse when the strength is higher. Does that sound right, and is it realistic to get that many dice if you strategize enough?
Kristo Vaher to be fair, even a 1 in 10 shot is more of a chance than some co-op games, lol. I doubt people beat Robinson Crusoe 1 in 10 times!
I'm interested enough that I bought the game earlier today, based on Kristo's feedback. Thanks guys.
The real problem for me is the increased number of die increases the chances of critical failure. If I roll 6 die I have a 2 in 6 chance of rolling successes and a 1 in 6 chance of rolling an eagle. If I have anything other than low in suspicion then if I get more than 1 eagle it's off to KY City. I'm fine with failing but when I played we all just could not stay out of jail. Everything we did sent someone there, and then while that person was there they were doing nothing but spewing info on us causing everyone else to get locked up. Just alot of feel bads vs the number of epic moments.
I have played 2 times now, but both times were on easy level (won both times).
There is definite luck mitigation in the game, like collecting enough items (hard to do), keeping military support low, keeping suspicion low, getting a decent plot card, finding the Quick Reaction or Officer Recruited cards, etc.
Doing all of that is a challenge and it's very disheartening when you manage to do it and fail the roll. However, I will say the thrill of succeeding outweighs the negatives. I will be playing the game on medium difficulty next time. I think it's a pretty decent design. Kudos to Philip duBarry.
9:20 sold (I think). On one hand, I LOVE story telling games. On the other hand, I really dislike "XCOM: The Board Game" because success/failure depends so much on dice rolls. Hmm, torn... a big selling point is that the goal of the game is to kill Hitler (odd that there's not more games with that end goal).
I've been interested in Black Orchestra since before Gen Con, but have not spent a lot of time researching yet. I want to like the game, but this review helps me understand that the chance aspect may be too strong for my tastes. Still, I want to like it - so I guess I have a dilemma :)
Doug Bass the chance aspect you mean the one that was there in real life
I love some chance in my games sometimes, it adds a nice "unexpected" touch to them when done right. Even push your luck games can be quite fun.