Not everything is measured by numbers on paper, bud. Besides the CTS-V comes in at over $100k fully loaded, while the GS-F is at $85k fully loaded. Even Jeremy Clarkson claimed that the new GS-F was "better then the M5". Too many people spend too much time judging the value of a car by it's numbers on paper - without ever seeing the car or much less driving one. The GS-F fits the niche of a performance luxury sedan designed for the road. Not everybody wants a track-focused race car that is legal on the road. I love the CTS-V but it is a 640-HP brute, and not everybody wants a rocketship on the street. Lexus knows exactly what they are doing and that is why the GS-F is a winner in my opinion.
HorsepowerKings.com And yet the starting MSRP of both the CTS-V and the GS F is $85k. We need to be extra clear on that point. The GS F may be better than the M5, but the CTS-V is definitely better than the M5. Please tell me you're not actually going to try to suggest the GS F is a better car than the CTS-V. Right? Yes, numbers on a page blah blah blah. We get it, the GS F drives well. So does the CTS-V. That's MY point. In fact by any account the CTS-V drives BETTER than the GS F. And I'll say it again: The GS F may be a great car, it may drive fabulously. It may even be worth $85k... if it existed in a vacuum where no other cars in this class existed. Unfortunately for Lexus, the CTS-V does exist, and at the same price point as the GS F. And the CTS-V is not a one trick pony, it is as much or more of a driver's car than the GS F is. Which, again, begs the question: Why? Why would you spend that money on a GS F when you could literally have a CTS-V for the same money? It's not like the driving experience is worse in the CTS-V, because it's not. So... why?
+Vernon Price lol no you must really enjoy bottom of the barrel mediocrity. The build quality for American cars suck, which is why they are the butt of most jokes in the car industry
This is the car for the driver who used to buy vehicles like E55 AMGs and M5s, never with manual transmissions, but got tired of the costs of german cars. This car is fun with peace of mind. And I don't mean fun like Toyota's watermelon smile, anemic definition of "fun," but real fun. You are going to be able to run this car through the paces, and it will provide an engaging experience, and put a smile on your face. But at the end of the day, you don't have to worry that 10k miles later, you'll have to replace x, y, and z, for more than you'd like to pay.
It's cool. After you win the stoplight race and your check engine light comes on, the Lexus driver will give you a ride to the dealer while you call a tow truck.
Tyler Durden ya the new ctsv is shit idk what ita doing with all that power too its not any faster than the germans in a straight. Ok ya its faster than rs6/7 but not than old m5 or old e63s (the new ones will dust the living shit out of the ctsv).
I just bought a lightly used 2017 GS350 after my 2020 NX300 was rammed by a woman. No injuries, NX written off. I bought the GS with the insurance check. After years of driving SUVs, it’s like driving nirvana! I’d like to get my mitts on a V8 version. Enjoyed the video!
This is my realistic dream car. I love everything about it even the controversial design. I always see a white one and my jaw drops every time. I'm jealous. Great review!
I agree with you, I love and prefer the newer style and want to be aggressive all whole trying to be both sport luxury! Naturally aspirated engines. For me, less maintenance for future ownership. Love it!
Hey Jeff, have you ever driven a first gen ISF? I've always loved the look of them but have heard the transmission just ruins the experience. Thoughts? I think they're a pretty good bargain right now
The Lexus IS gonna be so much more reliable for many years though! And the build quality is top notch! The is also now available a supercharger for this two - for I believe in the area of high 600 hp.
tp me the reason to get the Lexus over the CTS V is simple. Dealer experience. Cadillac dealers are on the level of Chevy which is on the level of dirt. Possibly poop.
Blake Swan I'm an idiot for pointing out how stupid your original statement was? Why, because you don't like the fact that you said something immensely stupid? Do you live at the dealer? Is that where you going to be spending all your time when you buy a car? What the fuck kind of bullshit complaint is that?
Shiva P Why are you conflating dodge and GM cars? If you're too stupid to understand that GM and Dodge are two different companies, I'm not sure you're smart enough to be commenting here. And considering the V series Cadillacs have been beating everything in their respective classes, I'm not sure where you're getting "bottom of the barrel" from. The GS F costs $85k. The CTS-V costs $85k. The difference is that the CTS-V outperforms the GS F by mile and miles and miles. It's not even vaguely close.
we need manual. i have 6 speed acura tl sh awd . i know youve had experience with my vehicule how u like it? we always looking for upgrades but its auto..
+G. Warren It's too new for that level of development. However, ECU tunes are out right now for the IS F and RC F, which share the same/variation of this motor.
+G. Warren Nope, Toyota engines are near impossible to crack for tuning purposes as it comes to boost. Tuners gave up from the Is350 on wards pretty much as it comes to boosting.
Bajan is right. Toyota tightly protects the engine management software and hardware. Nobody has been able to break the protection yet, so nobody can tune these cars in any significant way. Maybe a 50 shot of NOS or other hackery but even then you need a richer fuel mixture for a few seconds and nobody wants to risk an 86k car for a few seconds of boost.
Except the others also sound great also , sound is not synthesized, as well as looking better and being faster, You are talking about this v8 like if the competition has 4 bangers. they also have v8s, some that are on boost and will sound as good or better than this.
I still don't think it competes with the Ms/AMGs/RS/Vs of the lot. It competes with the M-Sport/ AMG-Sport/S/V-Sport cars. They all hover around that 70-85k range with around 450 horsepower. As you said, Lexus NEVER said it was going after the Ms/AMGs. Also, as with the IS-F, I have a feeling that this is going to the best "Second Owner" car of the bunch. Yea, you may not want to buy this new if you are trying to keep up with your neighbors E63 AMG but when these cars all fall to 30-45k, the GS-F may be the one to buy if you plan on keeping it on the road and not paying absurd prices for maintenance.
I just listened to your podcast on TH-cam comments and I just wanted to say you really need to get your facts straight. I've owned 11 Lexus' and they are literally better than every American car ever made. Keep to the facts... Oh, and you're gay.
I have a CTS-V, my tires last 20k miles, not 3k. And if you still don't know how to use CUE, you may be an idiot. But really, isn't the point of your jab at Cadillac the fact that the CTS-V costs the same money as the GS F, and with that you get VASTLY better performance in every way? And I mean VASTLY. If you've driven both, you already know this. At this point, actively attacking Cadillac during a GS F review seems like you're being proactively defensive about how relatively impotent the GS F is compared to the CTS-V. Sounds a lot like making excuses to me. Oh, the GS F is good to drive? That's great. So is the CTS-V. And by all accounts, the CTS-V is actually better to drive, in addition to being much MUCH faster. Basically, if you can't do a review of the GS F without taking shots at the CTS-V, the GS F is not as good as you think it is. If it were, it could stand on its own two feet without the need to try to make the CTS-V look bad. It's been proven in advertising time and time again, you never take shots at the class leader because it only proves that you're in second place. Or in the GS F's case, maybe 4th or 5th place. I get that it's a good car, on its own. But the GS F does not live in a vacuum. It has incredibly dominant competition in the open market, and that is a real thing. I'm sure I would enjoy driving a GS F, but if it's my $85k, coming out of my pocket? No way in hell. Not when cars like the CTS-V exist for the same money.
The Hooniverse I said I get 20k on my tires because I do. That's a fact. Is there some reason you said they only get 3k? Or was that just hyperbole? If so, why are you using hyperbole to try to make a point? Isn't that kind of disingenuous, and basically making my point for me? CUE complaints are almost always user error, which is why I mentioned it. Some people have a real hard time grasping the concept of the guide bars, and press them expecting the screen to do something. Then they complain that CUE doesn't work. What you said was that you will be bringing your Cadillac into the service department for infotainment systems problems, which... again, hyperbole? Or is there some study that shows that 100% of Cadillacs have to come in to the device dept for infotainment problems that I am not aware of? Right. So like I said, if you have to use hyperbole and fictional, non-realistic scenarios that make Cadillacs look bad in an effort to make the GS F look good by comparison, then maybe the problem is that the GS F isn't good enough to withstand objective scrutiny in the open market. And I did watch your CTS-V video, and I commented on it multiple times. I understand that you liked the CTS-V in that video, and that's great. It doesn't change what you said about it in THIS video. Here is the reality: The GS F is GROSSLY overpriced for what you get. It costs the same money as the CTS-V, yet performs at a much lower level, and is less of a performance car overall. There is nothing you can say, not even backhanded shots at the CTS-V, targeting some imagined faults with the CTS-V's infotainment system or tire wear, that is going to change that. If you listen to the commentary through this whole video, preemptive excuses for how much it costs can be heard interwoven throughout the whole thing. And Lexus fanboys will undoubtedly pay that much money for the GS F, despite how poorly it performs in direct comparison with the CTS-V, which costs the same money. But not me. And I felt it was necessary to shine a light on that performance discrepancy and what it means in the real world, on the open market, since you didn't. Do you guys really believe the GS F is worth $85k? Really? When you can get either a CTS-V or the Z06 for the same or less money? With your own money, would you really put down 85 large for the GS F and not the CTS-V or the Z06? If not, then where is your justification for ignoring that particular elephant in the room in this video? I understand that it's a video about the GS F and not a comparison review. But that seems like an important enough fact to have mentioned, and illuminated as one of the cons of this car. it's goddamn expensive for what you get.
+Vernon Price I'm looking at a cts v right now as I type this comment and from 15 feet away I could see the cheap plastic on it. Same with corvettes just cheap. Also, when someone sees a GS f or any high end Lexus, it turns heads, regardless if they like it or not, where as your not so special caddilac does not.
LEXUS - just a high priced TOYOTA. so is ACURA to HONDA, I can say these things because I've driven them. and I think what AKIO TOYODA doesn't do with his company is take the LEXUS marque 2 steps past their Mother brand TOYO. case and point the ES and the CAMRY. the ES should be more powerful than the CAMRY and it isn't. they're basically the same flavor accept one is waaaay more QUIET than the other and the PRICE IS HIGHER.
If you have a brain Would you buy this kind of Car anyway? I mean honestly most of these M cars, F cars, AMG cars don't get to get anywhere near the tracks and what so practical about a car with 640hp? Bragging right? To put it in perspective it's what you like, because if one can afford a car at this price rang, they have a decent amount of money. Like why would one buy a Lamborghini Veneno over an Aventador? It's different and that justify the 3millions$$ price difference.
The GS-F is a HIGHLY underappreciated car. Can't wait to put one in my garage.
Not everything is measured by numbers on paper, bud. Besides the CTS-V comes in at over $100k fully loaded, while the GS-F is at $85k fully loaded. Even Jeremy Clarkson claimed that the new GS-F was "better then the M5". Too many people spend too much time judging the value of a car by it's numbers on paper - without ever seeing the car or much less driving one. The GS-F fits the niche of a performance luxury sedan designed for the road. Not everybody wants a track-focused race car that is legal on the road. I love the CTS-V but it is a 640-HP brute, and not everybody wants a rocketship on the street. Lexus knows exactly what they are doing and that is why the GS-F is a winner in my opinion.
HorsepowerKings.com And yet the starting MSRP of both the CTS-V and the GS F is $85k. We need to be extra clear on that point.
The GS F may be better than the M5, but the CTS-V is definitely better than the M5. Please tell me you're not actually going to try to suggest the GS F is a better car than the CTS-V. Right?
Yes, numbers on a page blah blah blah. We get it, the GS F drives well.
So does the CTS-V. That's MY point. In fact by any account the CTS-V drives BETTER than the GS F.
And I'll say it again: The GS F may be a great car, it may drive fabulously. It may even be worth $85k... if it existed in a vacuum where no other cars in this class existed. Unfortunately for Lexus, the CTS-V does exist, and at the same price point as the GS F.
And the CTS-V is not a one trick pony, it is as much or more of a driver's car than the GS F is. Which, again, begs the question: Why?
Why would you spend that money on a GS F when you could literally have a CTS-V for the same money? It's not like the driving experience is worse in the CTS-V, because it's not.
So... why?
+Vernon Price American cars suck and so does your caddilac
Shiva P I like how you keep saying the same thing over and over again but have no reasoning behind it. You must REALLY enjoy mediocrity.
+Vernon Price lol no you must really enjoy bottom of the barrel mediocrity. The build quality for American cars suck, which is why they are the butt of most jokes in the car industry
This is the car for the driver who used to buy vehicles like E55 AMGs and M5s, never with manual transmissions, but got tired of the costs of german cars. This car is fun with peace of mind. And I don't mean fun like Toyota's watermelon smile, anemic definition of "fun," but real fun. You are going to be able to run this car through the paces, and it will provide an engaging experience, and put a smile on your face. But at the end of the day, you don't have to worry that 10k miles later, you'll have to replace x, y, and z, for more than you'd like to pay.
Can't wait to pull up in the CTS-V for the same price as your Toyota and let smell what true power is.
The manual transmission is the only reason I'd get a CTS-V over this, but it's a damn good reason.
+Sergio Ceja jr you still cant afford either one
It's cool. After you win the stoplight race and your check engine light comes on, the Lexus driver will give you a ride to the dealer while you call a tow truck.
Tyler Durden ya the new ctsv is shit idk what ita doing with all that power too its not any faster than the germans in a straight. Ok ya its faster than rs6/7 but not than old m5 or old e63s (the new ones will dust the living shit out of the ctsv).
Love the camera on the hood looking at you. Pretty sweet view.
Lexus got it right. Love the GSF. It's so well rounded.
it's ugly
really ugly
no it's not
I just bought a lightly used 2017 GS350 after my 2020 NX300 was rammed by a woman. No injuries, NX written off. I bought the GS with the insurance check. After years of driving SUVs, it’s like driving nirvana! I’d like to get my mitts on a V8 version. Enjoyed the video!
I've only seen one of these on the road in my area and it definitely caught my attention. Sounded nice and looked good.
Manufacture focus way too much on numbers now. This is a very balanced, tradition and reliable sports sedan.
This is my realistic dream car. I love everything about it even the controversial design. I always see a white one and my jaw drops every time. I'm jealous. Great review!
great review! thanks for being reasonable and not reviewing the car like everyone is a LeMan driver :)
Dream car
I agree with you, I love and prefer the newer style and want to be aggressive all whole trying to be both sport luxury! Naturally aspirated engines. For me, less maintenance for future ownership. Love it!
This is a good thing for Lexus doesnt have Turbo charged makes engine last longer than any engine
I want a luxury car that goes fast and dependable. Now there is not much choice....
Cadillac CTS- V
+Sergio Ceja jr im at the norfolk area, do you have some good deals for a 2016 ctsv?
+Faiz Wiralaga I don't sell cars I meant to say that the CTS v is a better value and way faster.
The Caddy is not luxurious nor dependable, not in the same league as a Toyota/Lexus. Besides, GM dealers are the worst: absolutely no class.
What a review excellent, Love this car.
Great Video, cool car!
Hey Jeff, have you ever driven a first gen ISF? I've always loved the look of them but have heard the transmission just ruins the experience. Thoughts? I think they're a pretty good bargain right now
+Roads Untraveled I have - they're definitely tons of fun, even with that mediocre gearbox.
+The Hooniverse that "mediocre" gear box was the first of its kind and the fastest gear box when it came out in 2008
+Toyota4Life damn sure was bro damn sure was
Nice work! How's the reliability been with Lexus lately? Are they still on top even with all the electronics?
I have a Is250 3 years 41000 miles no problems
4 Lexus vehicles all had rattle issues
@@LifeISMagix try audi or merc and let me know when you hit the magic number of 30k on repairs
"I swear to God I will pistol-whip the next person that says shenanigans" great review :D
The Lexus IS gonna be so much more reliable for many years though! And the build quality is top notch! The is also now available a supercharger for this two - for I believe in the area of high 600 hp.
Love the color
tp me the reason to get the Lexus over the CTS V is simple. Dealer experience. Cadillac dealers are on the level of Chevy which is on the level of dirt. Possibly poop.
You care about the dealer more than you care about the actual car? That's pretty sad.
Vernon Price you're an idiot. Im sorry. I guess go have fun in the chevy fan club
Blake Swan I'm an idiot for pointing out how stupid your original statement was? Why, because you don't like the fact that you said something immensely stupid?
Do you live at the dealer? Is that where you going to be spending all your time when you buy a car? What the fuck kind of bullshit complaint is that?
+Vernon Price Lol caddys and Chevys are bottom of the barrel. A hellcat is 700 hp for 60k lol nothing special just a stupid car for stupid people
Shiva P Why are you conflating dodge and GM cars? If you're too stupid to understand that GM and Dodge are two different companies, I'm not sure you're smart enough to be commenting here.
And considering the V series Cadillacs have been beating everything in their respective classes, I'm not sure where you're getting "bottom of the barrel" from.
The GS F costs $85k. The CTS-V costs $85k. The difference is that the CTS-V outperforms the GS F by mile and miles and miles. It's not even vaguely close.
we need manual.
i have 6 speed acura tl sh awd . i know youve had experience with my vehicule how u like it?
we always looking for upgrades but its auto..
+4bryan4 that 6MT TL is awesome. Big fan of that car
+The Hooniverse ye sounded like it . i have some videos but they are crap lol search papi1080. and watch that video u will love it tl 6mt in snow
+The Hooniverse sounded like it in the tlx sport hybrid review
+Stealth333. yup im jus watching my old accord videos and i miss this amazing transmission . manuals are dying :_
+Stealth333 wish even the q50 came with a 6 speed from my tl lol
Is there any aftermarket tuning/sc/turbos for this vehicle?
+G. Warren I don't know first hand but I'd be shocked if aftermarket support didn't exist for this Lexus
+G. Warren It's too new for that level of development. However, ECU tunes are out right now for the IS F and RC F, which share the same/variation of this motor.
+G. Warren Nope, Toyota engines are near impossible to crack for tuning purposes as it comes to boost.
Tuners gave up from the Is350 on wards pretty much as it comes to boosting.
Bajan is right. Toyota tightly protects the engine management software and hardware. Nobody has been able to break the protection yet, so nobody can tune these cars in any significant way. Maybe a 50 shot of NOS or other hackery but even then you need a richer fuel mixture for a few seconds and nobody wants to risk an 86k car for a few seconds of boost.
i almost got a gs 350 almost... would have been fun.
Why didn't you?
+Lexus Cohen deal came up on my wrx and went with it. also the dealership selling the gs was douchey.
+Dash Cam California as long as your are happy, that's all that matters!
Except the others also sound great also , sound is not synthesized, as well as looking better and being faster,
You are talking about this v8 like if the competition has 4 bangers. they also have v8s, some that are on boost and will sound as good or better than this.
I like it, 6 speed manual pleased.
I still don't think it competes with the Ms/AMGs/RS/Vs of the lot. It competes with the M-Sport/ AMG-Sport/S/V-Sport cars. They all hover around that 70-85k range with around 450 horsepower. As you said, Lexus NEVER said it was going after the Ms/AMGs.
Also, as with the IS-F, I have a feeling that this is going to the best "Second Owner" car of the bunch. Yea, you may not want to buy this new if you are trying to keep up with your neighbors E63 AMG but when these cars all fall to 30-45k, the GS-F may be the one to buy if you plan on keeping it on the road and not paying absurd prices for maintenance.
I completely agree. This is the car for the person that wants a luxury car that's reliable and has manageable maintenance costs
+Akil Hodge ditto
I think GSF is more like a modern E55 and E60 M5.
I remember when a 13s 1/4 mile was worthy of a magazine cover - and here we have one built by Toyota...reliable and fast? Bamcis.
dope. ass. review. also dope car
Go watch super gt race and see what lexus can do in a race. if you think lexus lose in a race to these other company than you should make this video.
They know nothing about that bro but a true and real car lover know the deal
Is300 or gc8 coupe na
Mute you...not the best? So similiar to your channel
I just listened to your podcast on TH-cam comments and I just wanted to say you really need to get your facts straight. I've owned 11 Lexus' and they are literally better than every American car ever made. Keep to the facts... Oh, and you're gay.
Keep complaining about numb electric power steering. It's a totally valid complaint and one that deserves attention across the industry.
✌️👏✌👏✌👏✌👏
you can't compare this with a ctsv it's more of the cts vsport
Stop with the spin. It's fake sound!
I have a CTS-V, my tires last 20k miles, not 3k. And if you still don't know how to use CUE, you may be an idiot. But really, isn't the point of your jab at Cadillac the fact that the CTS-V costs the same money as the GS F, and with that you get VASTLY better performance in every way? And I mean VASTLY. If you've driven both, you already know this. At this point, actively attacking Cadillac during a GS F review seems like you're being proactively defensive about how relatively impotent the GS F is compared to the CTS-V. Sounds a lot like making excuses to me.
Oh, the GS F is good to drive? That's great. So is the CTS-V. And by all accounts, the CTS-V is actually better to drive, in addition to being much MUCH faster. Basically, if you can't do a review of the GS F without taking shots at the CTS-V, the GS F is not as good as you think it is. If it were, it could stand on its own two feet without the need to try to make the CTS-V look bad. It's been proven in advertising time and time again, you never take shots at the class leader because it only proves that you're in second place. Or in the GS F's case, maybe 4th or 5th place.
I get that it's a good car, on its own. But the GS F does not live in a vacuum. It has incredibly dominant competition in the open market, and that is a real thing. I'm sure I would enjoy driving a GS F, but if it's my $85k, coming out of my pocket? No way in hell. Not when cars like the CTS-V exist for the same money.
maybe you shouldn't be so sensitive about your car... and maybe you should watch our CTS-V video.
The Hooniverse I said I get 20k on my tires because I do. That's a fact. Is there some reason you said they only get 3k? Or was that just hyperbole? If so, why are you using hyperbole to try to make a point? Isn't that kind of disingenuous, and basically making my point for me?
CUE complaints are almost always user error, which is why I mentioned it. Some people have a real hard time grasping the concept of the guide bars, and press them expecting the screen to do something. Then they complain that CUE doesn't work.
What you said was that you will be bringing your Cadillac into the service department for infotainment systems problems, which... again, hyperbole? Or is there some study that shows that 100% of Cadillacs have to come in to the device dept for infotainment problems that I am not aware of?
Right. So like I said, if you have to use hyperbole and fictional, non-realistic scenarios that make Cadillacs look bad in an effort to make the GS F look good by comparison, then maybe the problem is that the GS F isn't good enough to withstand objective scrutiny in the open market.
And I did watch your CTS-V video, and I commented on it multiple times. I understand that you liked the CTS-V in that video, and that's great. It doesn't change what you said about it in THIS video.
Here is the reality: The GS F is GROSSLY overpriced for what you get. It costs the same money as the CTS-V, yet performs at a much lower level, and is less of a performance car overall. There is nothing you can say, not even backhanded shots at the CTS-V, targeting some imagined faults with the CTS-V's infotainment system or tire wear, that is going to change that.
If you listen to the commentary through this whole video, preemptive excuses for how much it costs can be heard interwoven throughout the whole thing. And Lexus fanboys will undoubtedly pay that much money for the GS F, despite how poorly it performs in direct comparison with the CTS-V, which costs the same money.
But not me. And I felt it was necessary to shine a light on that performance discrepancy and what it means in the real world, on the open market, since you didn't. Do you guys really believe the GS F is worth $85k? Really? When you can get either a CTS-V or the Z06 for the same or less money? With your own money, would you really put down 85 large for the GS F and not the CTS-V or the Z06?
If not, then where is your justification for ignoring that particular elephant in the room in this video? I understand that it's a video about the GS F and not a comparison review. But that seems like an important enough fact to have mentioned, and illuminated as one of the cons of this car. it's goddamn expensive for what you get.
American cars are nothing special and your car sucks bro sorry to break it to you
Shiva P Compared to the GS F, cars like the CTS-V are very special. You've obviously never driven one, which explains your total ignorance.
+Vernon Price I'm looking at a cts v right now as I type this comment and from 15 feet away I could see the cheap plastic on it. Same with corvettes just cheap. Also, when someone sees a GS f or any high end Lexus, it turns heads, regardless if they like it or not, where as your not so special caddilac does not.
LEXUS - just a high priced TOYOTA. so is ACURA to HONDA, I can say these things because I've driven them. and I think what AKIO TOYODA doesn't do with his company is take the LEXUS marque 2 steps past their Mother brand TOYO. case and point the ES and the CAMRY. the ES should be more powerful than the CAMRY and it isn't. they're basically the same flavor accept one is waaaay more QUIET than the other and the PRICE IS HIGHER.
86k for this car is an absolute joke! You'd have to not have a brain to get one lol
If you have a brain Would you buy this kind of Car anyway? I mean honestly most of these M cars, F cars, AMG cars don't get to get anywhere near the tracks and what so practical about a car with 640hp? Bragging right? To put it in perspective it's what you like, because if one can afford a car at this price rang, they have a decent amount of money. Like why would one buy a Lamborghini Veneno over an Aventador? It's different and that justify the 3millions$$ price difference.
the F Logo is ugly
gabrielwhite you nitpicking
I'd hate to see a luxury compromising car for performance when a bare performance car for Lexus means a 2 ton car.