As a current Wuwa and ZZZ player, I 100% agree on the increased reserved waveplate/energy as a big QoL update for returning players. Man, I wish we also have a coffee-equivalent too in wuwa cuz that's free 60/80 energy per day. Weekly Mats - Not sure how they can improve this cuz it already costs waveplates per run. But maybe increase the weekly limit to 6? Since you're getting 3 calamity boss mats per run, realistically, you only need 18 pieces of calamity boss mats to get all inherent skill and max/level 10 resonance skill, liberation, and forte (basic attack and intro will be at level 6). Echo EXP - 100% YES! We need a dedicated simulation just for echo exp. Fixing Echoes - I agree with the tuners, game could live without it. So just get the echo to level 5/10/15/20/25 and it automatically rolls a substat for you works. But pleeaaassseee, leave the substat rolls as it is cuz man, I freaking hate the substat system in ZZZ drive discs. The initial roll is already so low, crit rate @ 2.4% and crit damage @4.8%, then getting rolls into the 2 other substats that you don't want (or possibly do but just to a lesser degree) is quite frustrating. I had a disc with CR/CD/Atk%/HP%, 3 of the f*cking rolls went to HP% and the last went to atk% and what I only wanted was a CD+1 roll my god. Anywho, great video rednu! May you negative edge and kara-cancel all over pompey's corrupted ass in Lost Void.
That's right.. i forgot the weekly boss runs already cost waveplates. That's crazy. They should just give you 3 freebies then and make the rest cost waveplates.
Completely agree with you. I also wish that data merging echoes will provide you with malleable echoes rather than morphable echoes. I would rather feed 20 echoes to merge to get something I actually want than 5 echoes and get dog shit. I also hate the substat rolling rng in hoyo games, but at least in ZZZ its a fixed increase amount to a substat rather than another layer of rng.
We already have a coffe equivalent on PGR - we get 2 per day, actually. (One from a daily mission, and on for free from the in-game shop) Each recovers 60 stamina, and we can use them whenever we want withim 2 weeks. It would be nice to get something like this on WuWa as well.
(long read ahead!!!) This will be a bit all over the place... hopefully not impossible to read....... It comes down to money lost to fan sentiment gain or lost depending on direction chosen, (how damn near everything runs lol) while yes I will say Kuro do give out substantially more "free" stuff and I'm never going to complain on that as they don't need to do so however it's a marketing move so to speak as it helps drive up community good will for a tiny shred of direct loss to income (if any at all with the likelihood of people spending the difference or higher in return for said good will) To be transparent I get the monthly sub and BP each time I need to refresh them.... for me so far you either have a stupid amount of X thing or fuck and all of it, I also tend to stick with getting the 5 star banner characters and IF I've got quite a bit saved away I'll try for copies or a weapon though mostly roll for characters, I sure won't be whaling on this game due to prices (even know I can if I wanted too) Idc what anyone says on this bit, you're wild for thinking different.... Store prices are absurdly expensive barring the BP (Sort of) and monthly sub, the first time double amount the pricing is disgusting even if they gave 5X the astrite... I know it's common for these types of games and why people are alright with this is beyond me. Give tiers to monthly sub, (USD), T1, 90 astrite, +40 waveplate cap, 5USD, T2. 200 astrite, +80 waveplate cap, 10 USD T3. 320 astrite, +120 waveplate cap, 15 USD Slight increase per tier so it's not going to make anyone using T1 feel like they're getting utterly shafted, scale waveplate regen so each tier will go to 100% in 24 hours. With the sub I'd like faster regen also to be added though this might make it lean into a damn near forced buy if they intentionally start gimping systems to make the sub a requirement (sort of is atm unless you're a giga whale), like to think consistent income is better though these types of games just either fuck you raw in the store or give pretty subpar monthly subscriptions/BP's, WuWa is no different here. Add a stacking of 3 days where you'll get the "daily login" amount, you still lose out on all the mats you'd farm so getting fucked on astrite also is kinda dumb. Add a free catch up pack to the store/mailed to anyone who hasn't logged in for 7-30 days and also a paid version with 2X what the free gives... note the paid one would still net you at a decent to large loss if you've not played compared to people that have, it'll mainly lower the impact of not logging in, lets say it gives 3-15 waveplates (based on time away) BP on completion gives you a material of some kind that can transform into ANY duplicate including weapons if you want, this alone would make the BP a decent chunk better yet I do think it needs improving as a whole, lazy and effective way is increasing what is given by 25% ish across the board. Set ALL waveplate costs to 40, this will cut down on mat limiting same with XP. Ways to just damn grind the game for leveling your stuff, it doesn't need to be favorable, main thing I'd suggest is Echo's being able to destroy for XP of any kind example below. 1 cost, 10 = 10K xp 3 cost, 4 = 10K xp 4 cost, 2 =10K xp YES there can be some daily limits to this however with just those numbers above would be on the lower end tbh though it's something, a bump in xp given would be great be it anything is better than nothing in this case. Remove tuners, while I have 7k of them it's just some random mat that is yet another way to shaft a player, F2P gets a solid amount at first then you quickly get strapped on everythinging. Either remove miss matching element types OR add a similar system to the above where you and combine 2-4 of the same Echo's and gain one that has the stat line you want. Remove flat Echo tune stats or double their values another change is making the difference from max to min 200, example, worst atk would be 400, best 600. Ways to guarantee one stat on an echo OR something nicer, being able to sink extra XP into Echo's and this will push the % chance of what you roll will be on the upper side of said rolls, a trade off for this would be you getting forced to do 5 tunes at the same time. I do have more in mind yet it'll begin getting into nitpicking areas to some extent......... incentivize people to pay without the instant feeling of being damn near scammed due to the pricing being outlandish. 1, Huge price cuts to the store, 2, Increasing BP "value", 3, Adding levels to the monthly sub, 4, lower all waveplate costs, 5, systems put in to clamp down on quite excessive RNG tuning rolls, 6, Echo grinding/burning to get all forms of xp. Kuro is doing great for themselves in many ways and income wise holy shit they're killing it, I'm nto blind to the notion that most the above COULD eat into their profits a lot so these would never come to be that being said I highly doubt adding the above will lower their profits by much if at all..... not that I know how much of the games money comes from whales (these are the people who keep the store prices absurd btw).
@@patrykszarzynski6188I expected a lot of wild takes, but telling people to not build characters on a character based gacha game is definitely up there
@@saffle_ Uh yeah, that's literally how it works in every gacha. You cannot afford to build every character, unless you're a whale. Most gachas don't even allow you to get every character, remotely. So it's not in the design.
@@Google_Censored_Commenter Understandable, but saying "stop complaining" when the solution is already there, i.e. the echo exp simulation in the echo trainer quest, is what really grinds me. Sure you can't build every character, but in this particular case, there is a mass deficit of echo exp compared to echoes you get from tacet fields. Add to the fact that you can get echoes in the overworld. A whole day's worth of stamina isn't even enough to max 1 echo, let's not forget the fact that that echo's substat might not even be good in the first place. "But you can just not minmax echoes..." Yeah, sure that's fine for some, but not everyone thinks and enjoys the game the same way. There's literally nothing to lose for anyone if they give echo exp simulation.
Oh snap! I didn't even know you could use battery in ZZZ for weekly boss mats, and I'm a day 1 player with 100% logon attendance. Crazy! Edit: These are some great suggestions. I think they should keep the tuners, but maybe change how we use them. Spend 200 tuners to change the main stat of an echo from HP to Glacio, for example.
The weekly boss mats is 100% something they need to fix in wuwa along with the xp. I can't believe i'm saying this but kuro could really lean from a few points in ZZZ.
Definitely agree on having a bigger waveplate storage. The free x3 boss fight attempts per week is cool too. Or they can simply add additional attempts to it (like making it x6 per week to ensure you can max out a skill tree weekly). Removing echo tuning is a bit too radical. Increasing the tuner yields from tacet fields would do. Agree on having separate echo exp fields, or if they let us use extra echoes as level fodders like with memories in PGR. Speaking of PGR, they can also mitigate the substat RNG by introducing a means to manipulate it like with the red memory USB. All in all, it's a good suggestion. And a reason why we should promote healthy competition in the gacha space - so that devs can never sit on their laurels and instead continue striving for improvement
I would like to add a couple of things: -Tacet fields still cost 60 Stamina. Change it for 40 pls (Was a complain during 1.0, still wasn't address) -Turn our lvl 0 Echos into Echo EXP (Was a complain during 1.0, still wasn't address) -Weeklies should have 3 free rewards instead of costing Stamina -Golden materials should have higher drop rates (You really need a LOT of them to maximize a character) -Farming for characters/echoes/weapons should cost waaayyyy less money -Still need an item that let us choose two sub-stats in our echoes
yeah with the waveplate cost I agree But the exp would be op af, would not make sense since you can farm echos infinitaly. This woul be a bit to generous. But at least the Echos you farm on tacet fields should be useable as exp as well. They should just increase the droprate of weekly boss mats a bit Ok I disagree on the Golden mats point because we get so freaking much materials already and thanks to the new synthesis system you can transform every material into another type. But thats also part of a Gacha, right, you as a Player need tomanage your resources and farm efficently They already redcuced the Money cost for rolling echo substats, and tbh I never had a Problem with my money in this game. If we have time where we not have anything to do, like at the end of a patch cycle just farm Tacet fields or money or exp. Still need an Item to choose 2 substats per Echo???? In wich game do you have such Items already?
@@WhitbyWyrm90 My point is coming from a casual perspective and doesn't spend too much time with the game (1-2 hours max) - "But the exp would be op af, would not make sense since you can farm echos infinitaly. This woul be a bit to generous. But at least the Echos you farm on tacet fields should be useable as exp as well." It wouldn't be OP to transform lvl 0 yellow useless Echoes into blue tubes/EXP. You can convert how many blue tube needed to +25 one Echo and *5 it (without counting the failed rolls) -"They should just increase the droprate of weekly boss mats a bit" I think they should just do like ZZZ: 3 free, extras cost stamina. No need to wait 2-3 weeks just to have enough to max one character (Just checked, it cost 26 weekly mats to max one character out and you get 9 per week....) -"Ok I disagree on the Golden mats point because we get so freaking much materials already and thanks to the new synthesis system you can transform every material into another type." Ummm how exactly? (and no, I will not be counting events) Also, for the synthesis system (best thing in the entire patch IMO), you do know that you're sacrificing materials for a character to lvl up one specific character right? And unfortunately, you cannot go from yellow to green. While yes it is useful, problem arise when you need to lvl up many chararacters at the same time (which is likely the case for newcomers). When I farm the domains, the game doesn't give me a lot of golden mats, so almost all of the time, I convert them. To be able to max a character, you need 2 type of golden materials and both of them needs more than the other mats (60+), so I still think it's fair to buff the rates. For the conversion, to get 1 golden mat, you'll need 27 green, 9 blue or 3 purple. (*)number needed to max a character and you'll see how much materials you're going to need to convert to max 1 character -"But thats also part of a Gacha, right, you as a Player need tomanage your resources and farm efficently" Yes, this is correct, but I also think it shouldn't punish players too hard for trying to experiment. For most people, grinding for characters and make them "useable" isn't that fun and another part of gacha game is to have fun no? If not, what's the point to keep playing? -"They already redcuced the Money cost for rolling echo substats," OMG, I didn't even know that cost money as well. Make it 1/5 things (I forgot skills as well, H-O-L-Y, Capitalism Wave) -"tbh I never had a Problem with my money in this game." You should elaborate more on that point to prove your point so it'll help more people better manage their money, but otherwise, good for you. Personally, I don't think the money you gain from the training domain (outside of event) vs the characters lvl up ratio is justified. Even the events doesn't give you much -"Still need an Item to choose 2 substats per Echo???? In wich game do you have such Items already?" Your wording is very weird but in any case, let me clarify. Those items are not given in big quantities. You normally use them for a specific equipment for one character. Hoyoverse have already implement it, PGR has that as well and my other gacha games allow me to reroll substats. So it's time for WuWa to do something about it as well. Reminder: The points I'm making is mostly for new F2P players and won't apply for people that spends money or are day 1 players
@@awalkingfurret4207 But what is the point to plaay the game then even if EVERYTHING in the game is thrown at you for free? 1-2 Hours a day is more than enough for a Gacha and you don't need to build 10 Chars in 3 days. then you would be finished building all your chars in 2 weeks and thats it, you would not have anything to do and dont play the game so often. You have to see this from a companys perspective as well because Playtime is also a very important factor for the sucess of a game. And as I said, you have to manage your resources and DONT try to build like 5 characters at once. Why you need to hurry and build anything right at the start? then you have like everything finished and get 1 new char every 6 weeks or something. Thats how Gacha works. Slow progress, and I know a lot of f2p players who already build many characters since we get so many stuff, through Events and exploration already. Even day 1 Players had the problems. That's also counts for them because we went through this already, and it was even worse since Kuro made the earlygame easier later on so new Players can reach the endgame faster. And you can not adjust every little piece of content to new players. Imagine youn are in version 8.3 and someone is complaining about not be able to clear endgame content after he started Playing like a week ago. You are not ment to clear it at this point. I could not clear the first TOA's in 1.0 and 1.1 as well but I knew I will get to that point eventually. And obviously as a new Player you should not be at the same point of a game as a player who plays since 1.0 in just a month or something. We don't even have PvP so why so many players want to rush through everything? I don't get it? And to be fair, we are only in the 6th version update so far (1.0-1.4-2.0) and Kuro already did so much for the players so I am sure that they will keep improving the game. As I said with Materials for example, now we get so many Boxes with materials, early on we didn't have these. The only one thing I see that needs a change for sure is the Echo system, I agree at that point, to have to use 2 different resources (Tuners and echo exp). for a RNG based system is just to much and doesn't feel rewarding at all Yeah maybe my wording is weird thanks for pointing that out, but English is not my native language but I try my best. Anyway what I mean by that was, do those kind of Items already exist? I heard that PGR had an Item where you can like choose 1 substat but its very rare, but 2 out of 5 substats? I mean If the Item would be rare and we dont get like 10 of it every patch ok, but that's what people would want once we got this Item, I am pretty sure xD "You should elaborate more on that point to prove your point so it'll help more people better manage their money, but otherwise, good for you" Yeah I could write down my journey through the game and explain my thought Process behind my decisions but that would be to much for a comment xD And we already have a bunch of Beginner guides on youtube for example. But I didnt do that and looking back now I maybe would change a few things and decisions I did at the start but overall I am happy with my Account progession so far. (I started the game like 2 weeks after release)
That would be great. I don't know why they're so stingy with echoes tbh. It's such a neat system when you don't think about how it's actually implemented.
Or give you the opportunity to convert Echos you farmed on tacet fields specicfically into Echo exp. But just the ones you farmed via tacet fields, otherwise it would be busted xD
@@Aezthet1C True, but it would be nice to have a little more control. Like... Let me transmute 10 useless echo into a chosen set, for example. Or convert useless echoes into a currency instead, like ZZZ does, and allow players to exchance this currency for echoes when they chose. (This would make box management a bit quicker, am give players more flexibility on when to use this currency.) You could even go a step forthur and allow players to costumize more aspects of an echo, and the greater the specificity, the more it costs. (Like... You could spend 5 currency for one completely random echo, with a chance to get more, just like it works now. But with enough currency, you could chose both the specific echo "species" and the main stat.)
I really like this video and your ideas with the exception of deleting tuners. I would like for kuro to repurpose them into either rerolling substats or (what i actually want) reroll the stat roll of the particular substat. Ie: say your crit damage rolled 9.5%. Use some of your tuners and reroll that 9.5% to a 21% if you're lucky. The rng is already very punishing, why would you include another level on whether you get a high or low roll.
totally agree with u. WuWa improved a lot since release, and has implemented a lot of QoL from Genshin so it would be nice if devs implemented these changes what u mentioned from ZZZ. also i would say thats WuWa needs more endgame, and better and newer events because ive noticed that they repeated it too offten. for now Kuro devs has a lot of trust, hopefelly they dont start slacking and contunue deliver quality in their game.
I don't have problem on the tuners i just wish they create legendary tuners or red turner for selecting a substat guarantee and protection turner like in mmo games
Great video Rednu, I believe tuners are a necessary cap so people won't "over farm" echoes using co-op more than they can level up and to stop people to just +5 everything and drop it, a domain just for echo exp would make current taced fields obnoxious in a sense where you can just farm echoes in the overworld and get exp from those domains only. A lot of these are really good qol's to have but what you're not taking into account here are the differences of zzz and wuwa, in particular the development cost and time differences of PNG discs and W-engines to individually animated echoes and weapon models, of course as consumers we should advocate for more but with an open world, it's trickier and it needs more return from player's time and/or money to reason and compensate the excessive effort they put into making an open world game cohesive, we can see this with the only other gacha open world game with this caliber and how stingy they are, and wuwa is arleady defying expectations. Let's always want more from these predatory gacha games tho, they made exploration really fast, let's see what other ungacha-like updates they will do next. Oh yeah, when will we have a 100% weapon on a hoyo game? 😶
Nice video, I don't play ZZZ so I didn't know about these features. I'll be sure to include them in the version feedback. And yes, WW's echo system is really bad, even PGR's system is much better. Even though it's not the best for open world, at least they should adapt it. At least implement the substat selector/reroll that exists in PGR.
I have 4k+ tuners, with 0 echo exp left since I build a day1 temp build for Carlotta. Now I am painstakingly slow on testing my luck with the new frost set 1 echo per day at a time
It is the raw material to upgrade echo. Even though I know it is so much that it is redundant. But it is difficult to change to an unequal value. We should consider not to ask for something unreasonable.
WuWa got one of the best updates but I think ZZZ got the best Patch rn they revamp a lot of there content, they have the best end games in all gacha. I love ZZZ and WuWa. And unfortunately quit genshin and honkai
One thing I wish they would take from Sword of Convallaria is allowing players a sort of "preview" of how the gear will roll. In SoC, there is also a gear piece whose substats are gradually unlocked as you level it up, and when you get a new piece only the set and first substat can be seem. However, each of the other 3 substats have either a bronze, silver, gold, or rainbow colour, which allows the ´players to know if they are a high roll or low roll. Also, the game also tells you exactly how the next substat will roll a few levels until you unlock said stat. This means you don't need to invest as many resources into each piece to know if they are good or not. (Or, at very least, it allows you to know for sure which pieces cannot roll well.) I don't think WuWa needs to follow this exact formula, but... At least allowing players a "preview" of the next substat would help a lot on deciding which pieces to invest in, instead of incentivising players to stockpile all echoes with the right set/main stat combination in case they roll well.
Actually I just asked them to make first two substats to be visible on acquisition like in ZZZ, echo conversion into exp, tuner, or mats, ability to inherit or even add substats upon us using already levelled echoes for fodder, and substat rerolling like in BrownDust2
I do agree about the weekly boss and reserve changes. After playing so much Zenless, not having access to weekly boss mats whenever I want to in Wuwa kinda sucks. That being said, I would like to note that the stamina cost of building a units is very similar between Wuwa, Zenless, and even HSR. It's about 21-25 days for a 5 star in each game in terms of total stamina starting from 0 resources (no money, xp, skill mats, etc.). In practice, I find Wuwa is actually faster than Zenless or HSR because of how many resources you get form exploration, illusive realm, TOA shop, events, etc. I am sitting on at least two characters worth of selectable skill mat items that I've hoarded, along with more credits than I know what to do with. If they implement reserve stamina and weekly boss changes, it would easily become the fastest game in practice for both returning and active players.
i don't agree much on the "hard to lvl up character part" i built cartlotta to 90 with her skill almost all maxed in like 3 days.. that does not seems to be a long day to me. If you do it on a weekend, you get almost all the bosses material you need because you get 9 items from "sunday" let's say, and 9 more from the day after. which bring you with the most important things to build at lvl 10 and the others at 7-8 which is pretty good if you ask me, then wait just 1 week and you can finish the char completely. As i always say.. the echo part is the big time sink...that is what makes "building characters" a huge pain. and i have no idea how tuner can be a problem, i never run out XD the echo exp items... THOSE run out very fast if you want to try to roll all stats.. unless you roll only 3 and reuse that echo that didn't roll well. But that's gonna lower the chance to get crit and crit damage by almost 40% because you are NOT rolling 2 stats out of 5, unless the first 3 are insanely good or already have crit stats. farming echo items should give at least double the amount given now.
I'm pretty sure you had some material stockpiled right? I just rolled Zhezhi and it's going to take me at least 2 or 3 weeks to max her, a weapon, and her skills.
@@Rednu well you can max a character in 2 days as a new player in ZZZ? i never tried it so i can't say.. but i bought some materials in the shop and i had some from previous run , but trust me not that much.. the new synthesis system makes you change material from another material to the one you need, so unless you just started you MUST have stuff from other dungeons too ^^ everything else was materials from this new region i could not farm prior to it.
@@WastedTalent83rednu aint a new player but a returning. If you compare to zzz as a new player ofcourse you cant. But if you are a returning playet in zzz. I guaranty you a week most to max out a character not 2 days tho
@@reedsad4652 so its 1 week instead of 2, i don't see this huge of a difference really. XD its no like characters come out ever 2 weeks, you have all the time to build them.. what you don't make in time to build are the old one, that maybe you like but have not enough material since you're always leveling up the new ones XD
i actually think tuners could actually be good if they make tuners...y'know "tune", to "tune" which echo substats that you dont like and change or reroll until you get the substats that you want. Which will make it make sense for the name.
@@dokutah2480 it's still better mechanic than having to endlessly grind and calling it "content" for people to do rather than actually having "real content" like TOA, Depths of Illusive Realm, etc. Edit : For the lack of tuners, they can just make events or stage/domain to farm them like we have for credits, weapon exp and character exp.
@@maulanarizky7252 Rather than that i'd appreciate being able to focus farm, i.e change the tacet field rewards to giving 3x tuners only but unable to get echos, exp etc etc
@@dokutah2480 you'll run to the same problem eventually, being not enough tuners or exp, one or the other since we only have so many energy to spend. Then after that, it's still up to RNG whether you get a good piece or hot garbage. Then again, as long as we get enough tuners and exp to the point where we don't need to worry about using them as carefuly and optimally then it's good. Like credits for example, we don't even need to farm credits domain since credits from events and dailies combined is more than enough to cover everything and there's still a ton of them left.
Echo exp remains my biggest gripe for WuWa. Remember it takes 60 energy (4 runs a day), we get 3 gold 4-5 purples per run (12g, 16-20p a day) at UL80. It takes 13 gold alone to get from lv 20 to lv 25, not including bad rolling. Just getting a decent workable full set alone can take up to 1.5 - 2 weeks if not more. On top of needing all the other mats to build characters. Its not fun and its discouraging to a lot of people I talk to on discord. A lot of people come in, pull their favorite/wanted character, and become frustrated with building that character leading to a break from the game which imo decreases player retention rates overall
Converting materials from other weekly bosses, giving us more echo tubes, even if they would cost us stamina. I still need to finish the forte talent from 9 to 10 and atk traces. Devs can make the game even better than it already is.
I hate tuners with a passion. Unlike most people who only tune 1-2 lines before going to the next piece I bring mines to +15 or +20 yet I'm still consistently running out of tuners while sitting on echo exp and thats with me buying the BP since launch.
Im kind of disappointed in myself. I kept a paper nearby while I was playing 2.0 so i could write down all my thoughts. When i was done i submitted my survey but now that im playing after I 100% the events and im trying to strengthen my units Ive just realized theres a horrible resource drought. Its definitely one of the worst in any gacha game. The events/exploration give tons of pulls but very little resources. Also doing the training simulation for a full days energy and getting like 8 gold drops feels terrible. Im struggling with basically every thing except money, especially echo experience.
I feel this so much. Sometimes there are days where you get so little. Zenless takes a while to build characters, but at least the drop rate is predictable and it never feels like I got cheated.
Lol it's not by far the worst in any gacha tho. If you're not preparing days before a new character release it's your problem not the game problem in managing resources. The echo system is shit but there's more Shititer system in the current big gacha games.
I actually put the tuner thing on the player feedback survey couple of days back. I said that the tuners are unnecessary and upgrading echos takes too much resources. I also wish that they have PGRs gatcha system because i keep hearing good things about it like you can guarantee to get the limited character and their weapon in the same patch just by farming it, like you don't have to skip any character and weapon banners at all if you just want 1 copy of each, now some might say i might be too greedy from this but i still want it.
An Echo System that I think would be cool if implemented in WuWa is when we use an Echo to level up another Echo, let us choose a Substatus that has already been unlocked in the Echo to go to the new Echo
The problem with this sort of system is that it creates a sort of pressure to build "perfect" echoes, and keep fusing/rerolling stats until there is no room for improvement at all. That said, something like what was implemented on Epic 7 could be nice. (You can only alter one stat per gear piece, you choose which stat to get, and the value is pre-determined based on how high your original roll was. So... If you got a high roll into a stat, your new stat will also get a high roll. This takes away a lot of the pressure from the "stat reroll" proccess, imo.)
hum i have lot of excess xp material (for characters) and i leveled all my char short of 3 while i struggle to level up in ZZZ so i'd argue ZZZ need to give more character xp material but yeah overall , 3 free weekly boss + infinite boss for some waveplates would be huge
could we maybe have a system to re-roll sub stats using tuners. like have 5 extra re-rolls on each stat and every time it cost more tuners. this way we can use the existing systems but with more options
I mean there's a survey so you can take your point there too. I too honestly some points I want to improve and I will take my time to share it on their upcoming survey. The good thing is that Kuro takes those survey seriously and make some changes and improvements based on what the community wants. That shows that Kuro really listens to their community... Unlike some of the other company out there who thinks of you as their cashcows (yeah I'm looking at you Hoyoverse 😒).
That weekly in ZZZ doesn't feel weekly to me actually, it feels like overworld boss. It's good, but i don't know if it will be implemented in WuWa. Let's just write it on feedback. My suggestion would be just let us carry the weekly boss attempt from every week before this (that we haven't done yet) to next week. For example, week 1 I don't play the game, the weekly boss attempt is 3/3. And then, week 2, because last week i didn't play the game, now the weekly boss attempt sit at 6/3. It's good enough for me actually.
I feel like you need to farm tacet fields for, let's say, 4 days. Spend 1000 waveplates on it, and tell me you're not able to make GREAT if not COMPLETE progress on your echos for one character.
My take on this is that I know we all love what the developers did with the current version, and all suggestions that were mentioned are valid. However , if Kuro made the game too accessible for everybody, drawbacks may occur, and I'm worried that Kuro is putting most of their effort on one game only and might get some hard time developing other games. There's a saying to not put all your eggs on one basket just like hoyo did with their games.
Great points but I'm confused on the tuners, since I actually quite like the system, I feeling like removing it would just be turnin the echo system in genshins artifacts
I really hate hoyoverse artifact rolling system. It feels so bad when you get a really good piece with only 1 bad stat and thanks to hoyo rng, the artifact ends up as crap. Wuthering waves tuning at this point is just an unnecessary step. You are going to do it any ways while you are levelling up to each step and i have so many of them that i have not yet converted the 3 star and 4 star tuning materials in my inventory. The real bottleneck is echo exp. Either they have to increase the tacet field rewards or reduce the waveplate cost. I understand that it will break the game if we can feed the random unlevelled echo for exp as we get tons of them in the overworld but they have to increase echo exp. I literally used lingering tunes for both Camellya and Xiangli yao as I can't be bothered to farm the havoc set due to constantly running out
i think about the tuners part is. i think they don't need to get rid of it but just add another option to use an echoes since some players got a lot of tuners it would be a waste to trash them
Tuners are garbage but I love that zzz gives me a refund on discs that ever worked out and let me recycle them, made farming so much nicer even with the rng garbage
Just only about the echo exp, there are already many people farming on the open world map for echo, I think or I assume the tuner was designed to limit how many echo you can level up no matter how many you farm, it's a max cap. Should wuwa be more generous? I think so. Should they change the system? I guess so. But I still think there can be a better way to balance this.
farming for echoes != farming for echo exp though. Echoes can't be melted purely into exp, it's only after you gave them echo exp that they can transfer it to something else. tuners does nothing to limit it. You also have echo daily limits. So I don't see the utility of tuners, and especially so since tuners aren't the problem with most people's accounts. It's echo exp.
@@Rednu Okay I don't know that because on my account, exp and tuners are not balanced, I got extra exp but no tuners now. I thought you will get more exp than tuners. I hope they can address this problem maybe in first anniversary.
Ok, maybe i am dumb, but i had problems with echo leveling only at the beginning. I never have it now. most of the time echos are shit anyways so at lvl 15 i see it and stop leveling. garbage leveling is usable to upgrade another echos and it goes on.
not really worried about this now because i'm sure they will fix this sht. i would mold if they dont change it in 3.0 (but yeah as of now the leveling echoes is not fun)
Let's device a constructive criticism. I want to see the developer side and player side. We all know Game developers want resident player to keep playing while attracting new player (tourist) As a player myself, I had the experience of running out of Tuners, for the first time, it's wild for me. I agree with the idea of just leveling the echoes to get substat, but Echoes in general don't have them so you can roll, this is the developer thing to do, slowed player progression a bit so they have time preparing content for the next patch. This contradict the echoes not having substat when captured. If we put percentage on substat, it becomes more tiresome seeing your HP echoes with insane crits, while the ATK percent gives flat HP and Def. 1. My suggestion is to give Tuners drops when beating the echoes, just purple ones are enough because you can grind them. Not having to rely on Tacet. This puts incentives for hardcore sweaty player who loves to grind. 2. My favorite suggestion of your is the Pure Echoes EXP. That is great. Simple and not too demanding. As a player I like this. 3. But I think the developer side would have a gripe with the Boss material as it is their attempt to slow down progress. Therefore I suggest, You paying double the energy, just like Tacet and Forgery challenge, but you the maximum you can do is 3 times per week. This Give the players option to overgrind than usual with the thought of them not having to wait another week, but considering excess boss material that they might get (maybe not useful for other character) 4. While I'm still on track, I suggest Ascension material conversion, I have so many excess ascension material from getting 5 of them sometime out of random. Let me convert them to other ascension material, that is my complain on this conversion QOL
substats and tuners, no instead of getting rid of tuners. tuners should allow reroll of substats, in this case take the system not from hoyo but from the first descendant (weapons)
I literally struggle to obtain as much pull currency in Wuwa compared to zzz in like 4-5 days I got 80ish+ something pulls for wuwa 60(thats with in game mail rewards) at best with hard grind with its long quests for small amount of Asterites..... I think all of those 22k asterites are laying behind end game content and tons of chests and mini games that scattered around the whole open world which also I don't understand why zzz redeem codes can stay like half a year meanwhile wuwa fresh redeem codes expires like after a week ?? hUh?? it just feels suboptimal to get all of that because it requires lots of your time and for end game content you actually need to build your characters or else you get shitted on in hologram so - endlessly farm echoes.... and literally enchant and trade resources to actually unlock character lvl upgrade cap..... for new players that want to get some limited characters like Carlotta that would be a real hustle and god forbid they lose 50/50 ain't no way they are getting those 80 pulls anytime soon....
As a new player I can't even level my carlotta anymore because one of the ascension materials (the flower one) is only made available in the new area and I'm still in the starting area. I have to halt my entire account progression if I want to keep using her and not have her bricked until I reach the new area. Unless i'm mistaken and someone can correct me. That's just poor design imo
Either get rid of Tuners OR keep the tuners but let people farm infinite echo exp and use their level 0 echos as exp. Since you’d be limited by Tuners anyway in that case
I would just scrap the tuner system, it’s tedious and no one likes it, when it comes to echoes Kuro doesn’t listen cause every player I know complains about it and it never got fixed.
from scracth u would farm longer in WuWa just because they limit weekly boss drops period, specially for newer characters who wants newer boss mats. and im always low on mats for skills what u getting from killing mobs because i dont like clear maps for hours to farm them. ive maxed Harumasa and Miyabi in 2 days(all level and weapons+all skills) because i had a lot of mats stored and can farm weekly bosses as long i have energy. In WuWa i maxed Carlotta and her weapon in 2 days and im still didnt maxed her skill tree just because of weekly boss mats (currently max lvl 7 skills)
@@arzr_er if you're gonna make a point like that then I levelled miyabi and her weapon the moment i got them 🤣and her basic, ex and ult to max, everything except core skill to F
About echo exp to be divided from echo farming, i think Kuro might agree with that. That's actually perfect solution. Since old players got overwhelm bcs they have to many echoes in their bag and illusive realm give us to many freebies.
To be honest, Wuwa 2.0 isn't perfect. Don't get me wrong, it is great, but there are still some issues (I really hated the Echo system for example) and I found myself drop the game after a week.
to me, aside some small glitches that are still in the game.. The only thing they should fix is echoes material availability. i cannot see any other bad side honestly. ToA is way too hard for me, but that gives me a reason to improve my team and my game play. Sure its bitter not to get all the items in the tower but also.. can't care less xD
Someone forgets that ZZZ is not independent and belongs to Hoyoverse. The only reason it’s being generous is because it’s not being played as much as HSR and Genshin, which are also in decline due to their exploitative practices. The flaws in HSR are already showing, with the high damage dealt by characters and the nerfs to bosses. If they need more money, they’ll turn against ZZZ, and thinking that ZZZ will always be like this while knowing it belongs to Hoyoverse… hahaha, no way. That’s why many people don’t play it-simply because it’s owned by Hoyoverse. As for Wuwa, it’s made by Kuro Games, which was already generous with PGR. It’s not the same, and when you start to see the cracks in ZZZ, it’ll be too late.
I'm not sure what you're saying. You think they will roll back these features..? Like of course, they will do less QoL as the game does better, same with Wuthering Waves. These were concessions. But they're not going to roll back these features lol these are here to stay and can be used as reference to improve Wuthering Waves.
this video is mainly how some zzz features will be great for wuwa.. i dont see in any universe how your comment is relevant.. wuwa is great a game but dang wuwa players is like genshin fanbase pure cancer 😂 both game's insecure players always point out which is which is better😂 the only great game kuro made is wuwa pgr cant even touch hoyoverse big 3 even if they gave all pgr characters for free 😂😂
Like what? Rinascita is the best patch, if not among the top 5 best patches in all of gacha gaming. The only thing that matters is if the game is fun. Palworld copied Pokemon, Genshin copied BotW, all the standout BRs copied DayZBR, VALORANT copied CS, League of Legends copied Dota. When is it copying and when is it inspiration, improving, or porting? Nobody cares if the game is fun. Nobody should care about anything else.
Came back after 4 months, I wanted to start on the ps5. I was blessed with 2x Carlotta my first 10 pull, then her weapon in 30 pulls. But I never progressed the story much. Now I have this cracked character stuck at level 40. I got PTSD from character farming from genshin. I haven't played since I pulled her.
Rednu's Honest Reaction to Wuthering Waves 2.0
▶th-cam.com/video/niV8lUszIhM/w-d-xo.html
zzz and wuwa can improve side by side as peak friendly rivals. both can learn from each others
As a current Wuwa and ZZZ player, I 100% agree on the increased reserved waveplate/energy as a big QoL update for returning players. Man, I wish we also have a coffee-equivalent too in wuwa cuz that's free 60/80 energy per day.
Weekly Mats - Not sure how they can improve this cuz it already costs waveplates per run. But maybe increase the weekly limit to 6? Since you're getting 3 calamity boss mats per run, realistically, you only need 18 pieces of calamity boss mats to get all inherent skill and max/level 10 resonance skill, liberation, and forte (basic attack and intro will be at level 6).
Echo EXP - 100% YES! We need a dedicated simulation just for echo exp.
Fixing Echoes - I agree with the tuners, game could live without it. So just get the echo to level 5/10/15/20/25 and it automatically rolls a substat for you works. But pleeaaassseee, leave the substat rolls as it is cuz man, I freaking hate the substat system in ZZZ drive discs. The initial roll is already so low, crit rate @ 2.4% and crit damage @4.8%, then getting rolls into the 2 other substats that you don't want (or possibly do but just to a lesser degree) is quite frustrating. I had a disc with CR/CD/Atk%/HP%, 3 of the f*cking rolls went to HP% and the last went to atk% and what I only wanted was a CD+1 roll my god.
Anywho, great video rednu! May you negative edge and kara-cancel all over pompey's corrupted ass in Lost Void.
That's right.. i forgot the weekly boss runs already cost waveplates. That's crazy. They should just give you 3 freebies then and make the rest cost waveplates.
Completely agree with you. I also wish that data merging echoes will provide you with malleable echoes rather than morphable echoes. I would rather feed 20 echoes to merge to get something I actually want than 5 echoes and get dog shit. I also hate the substat rolling rng in hoyo games, but at least in ZZZ its a fixed increase amount to a substat rather than another layer of rng.
We already have a coffe equivalent on PGR - we get 2 per day, actually. (One from a daily mission, and on for free from the in-game shop) Each recovers 60 stamina, and we can use them whenever we want withim 2 weeks. It would be nice to get something like this on WuWa as well.
Dude you're making me remember those +3HP on double crit discs 😂
@@primadansaripudin9269 ikr?! I'll take the 6.3% low crit rate over that. 😂
(long read ahead!!!) This will be a bit all over the place... hopefully not impossible to read.......
It comes down to money lost to fan sentiment gain or lost depending on direction chosen, (how damn near everything runs lol) while yes I will say Kuro do give out substantially more "free" stuff and I'm never going to complain on that as they don't need to do so however it's a marketing move so to speak as it helps drive up community good will for a tiny shred of direct loss to income (if any at all with the likelihood of people spending the difference or higher in return for said good will)
To be transparent I get the monthly sub and BP each time I need to refresh them.... for me so far you either have a stupid amount of X thing or fuck and all of it, I also tend to stick with getting the 5 star banner characters and IF I've got quite a bit saved away I'll try for copies or a weapon though mostly roll for characters, I sure won't be whaling on this game due to prices (even know I can if I wanted too)
Idc what anyone says on this bit, you're wild for thinking different.... Store prices are absurdly expensive barring the BP (Sort of) and monthly sub, the first time double amount the pricing is disgusting even if they gave 5X the astrite... I know it's common for these types of games and why people are alright with this is beyond me.
Give tiers to monthly sub, (USD),
T1, 90 astrite, +40 waveplate cap, 5USD,
T2. 200 astrite, +80 waveplate cap, 10 USD
T3. 320 astrite, +120 waveplate cap, 15 USD
Slight increase per tier so it's not going to make anyone using T1 feel like they're getting utterly shafted, scale waveplate regen so each tier will go to 100% in 24 hours.
With the sub I'd like faster regen also to be added though this might make it lean into a damn near forced buy if they intentionally start gimping systems to make the sub a requirement (sort of is atm unless you're a giga whale), like to think consistent income is better though these types of games just either fuck you raw in the store or give pretty subpar monthly subscriptions/BP's, WuWa is no different here.
Add a stacking of 3 days where you'll get the "daily login" amount, you still lose out on all the mats you'd farm so getting fucked on astrite also is kinda dumb.
Add a free catch up pack to the store/mailed to anyone who hasn't logged in for 7-30 days and also a paid version with 2X what the free gives... note the paid one would still net you at a decent to large loss if you've not played compared to people that have, it'll mainly lower the impact of not logging in, lets say it gives 3-15 waveplates (based on time away)
BP on completion gives you a material of some kind that can transform into ANY duplicate including weapons if you want, this alone would make the BP a decent chunk better yet I do think it needs improving as a whole, lazy and effective way is increasing what is given by 25% ish across the board.
Set ALL waveplate costs to 40, this will cut down on mat limiting same with XP.
Ways to just damn grind the game for leveling your stuff, it doesn't need to be favorable, main thing I'd suggest is Echo's being able to destroy for XP of any kind example below.
1 cost, 10 = 10K xp
3 cost, 4 = 10K xp
4 cost, 2 =10K xp
YES there can be some daily limits to this however with just those numbers above would be on the lower end tbh though it's something, a bump in xp given would be great be it anything is better than nothing in this case.
Remove tuners, while I have 7k of them it's just some random mat that is yet another way to shaft a player, F2P gets a solid amount at first then you quickly get strapped on everythinging.
Either remove miss matching element types OR add a similar system to the above where you and combine 2-4 of the same Echo's and gain one that has the stat line you want.
Remove flat Echo tune stats or double their values another change is making the difference from max to min 200, example, worst atk would be 400, best 600.
Ways to guarantee one stat on an echo OR something nicer, being able to sink extra XP into Echo's and this will push the % chance of what you roll will be on the upper side of said rolls, a trade off for this would be you getting forced to do 5 tunes at the same time.
I do have more in mind yet it'll begin getting into nitpicking areas to some extent......... incentivize people to pay without the instant feeling of being damn near scammed due to the pricing being outlandish.
1, Huge price cuts to the store, 2, Increasing BP "value", 3, Adding levels to the monthly sub, 4, lower all waveplate costs, 5, systems put in to clamp down on quite excessive RNG tuning rolls, 6, Echo grinding/burning to get all forms of xp.
Kuro is doing great for themselves in many ways and income wise holy shit they're killing it, I'm nto blind to the notion that most the above COULD eat into their profits a lot so these would never come to be that being said I highly doubt adding the above will lower their profits by much if at all..... not that I know how much of the games money comes from whales (these are the people who keep the store prices absurd btw).
Having no echo exp domain is so weird since we know that it already exists from a quest in the first place.
Facts. THIS is my biggest gripe on the game. I am confident with enough complaining….this will be done
You have tacet fields where you get echos and exp so don't complain and don't build every single character
@@patrykszarzynski6188I expected a lot of wild takes, but telling people to not build characters on a character based gacha game is definitely up there
@@saffle_ Uh yeah, that's literally how it works in every gacha. You cannot afford to build every character, unless you're a whale. Most gachas don't even allow you to get every character, remotely. So it's not in the design.
@@Google_Censored_Commenter Understandable, but saying "stop complaining" when the solution is already there, i.e. the echo exp simulation in the echo trainer quest, is what really grinds me.
Sure you can't build every character, but in this particular case, there is a mass deficit of echo exp compared to echoes you get from tacet fields. Add to the fact that you can get echoes in the overworld. A whole day's worth of stamina isn't even enough to max 1 echo, let's not forget the fact that that echo's substat might not even be good in the first place.
"But you can just not minmax echoes..." Yeah, sure that's fine for some, but not everyone thinks and enjoys the game the same way. There's literally nothing to lose for anyone if they give echo exp simulation.
We need a reason for 2 piece set bonuses to exist in wuwa.
Oh snap! I didn't even know you could use battery in ZZZ for weekly boss mats, and I'm a day 1 player with 100% logon attendance. Crazy!
Edit: These are some great suggestions. I think they should keep the tuners, but maybe change how we use them. Spend 200 tuners to change the main stat of an echo from HP to Glacio, for example.
The weekly boss mats is 100% something they need to fix in wuwa along with the xp. I can't believe i'm saying this but kuro could really lean from a few points in ZZZ.
Definitely agree on having a bigger waveplate storage.
The free x3 boss fight attempts per week is cool too. Or they can simply add additional attempts to it (like making it x6 per week to ensure you can max out a skill tree weekly).
Removing echo tuning is a bit too radical. Increasing the tuner yields from tacet fields would do.
Agree on having separate echo exp fields, or if they let us use extra echoes as level fodders like with memories in PGR.
Speaking of PGR, they can also mitigate the substat RNG by introducing a means to manipulate it like with the red memory USB.
All in all, it's a good suggestion. And a reason why we should promote healthy competition in the gacha space - so that devs can never sit on their laurels and instead continue striving for improvement
I would like to add a couple of things:
-Tacet fields still cost 60 Stamina. Change it for 40 pls (Was a complain during 1.0, still wasn't address)
-Turn our lvl 0 Echos into Echo EXP (Was a complain during 1.0, still wasn't address)
-Weeklies should have 3 free rewards instead of costing Stamina
-Golden materials should have higher drop rates (You really need a LOT of them to maximize a character)
-Farming for characters/echoes/weapons should cost waaayyyy less money
-Still need an item that let us choose two sub-stats in our echoes
yeah with the waveplate cost I agree
But the exp would be op af, would not make sense since you can farm echos infinitaly. This woul be a bit to generous. But at least the Echos you farm on tacet fields should be useable as exp as well.
They should just increase the droprate of weekly boss mats a bit
Ok I disagree on the Golden mats point because we get so freaking much materials already and thanks to the new synthesis system you can transform every material into another type. But thats also part of a Gacha, right, you as a Player need tomanage your resources and farm efficently
They already redcuced the Money cost for rolling echo substats, and tbh I never had a Problem with my money in this game. If we have time where we not have anything to do, like at the end of a patch cycle just farm Tacet fields or money or exp.
Still need an Item to choose 2 substats per Echo???? In wich game do you have such Items already?
@@WhitbyWyrm90 My point is coming from a casual perspective and doesn't spend too much time with the game (1-2 hours max)
- "But the exp would be op af, would not make sense since you can farm echos infinitaly. This woul be a bit to generous. But at least the Echos you farm on tacet fields should be useable as exp as well."
It wouldn't be OP to transform lvl 0 yellow useless Echoes into blue tubes/EXP. You can convert how many blue tube needed to +25 one Echo and *5 it (without counting the failed rolls)
-"They should just increase the droprate of weekly boss mats a bit"
I think they should just do like ZZZ: 3 free, extras cost stamina. No need to wait 2-3 weeks just to have enough to max one character (Just checked, it cost 26 weekly mats to max one character out and you get 9 per week....)
-"Ok I disagree on the Golden mats point because we get so freaking much materials already and thanks to the new synthesis system you can transform every material into another type."
Ummm how exactly? (and no, I will not be counting events) Also, for the synthesis system (best thing in the entire patch IMO), you do know that you're sacrificing materials for a character to lvl up one specific character right? And unfortunately, you cannot go from yellow to green. While yes it is useful, problem arise when you need to lvl up many chararacters at the same time (which is likely the case for newcomers). When I farm the domains, the game doesn't give me a lot of golden mats, so almost all of the time, I convert them. To be able to max a character, you need 2 type of golden materials and both of them needs more than the other mats (60+), so I still think it's fair to buff the rates. For the conversion, to get 1 golden mat, you'll need 27 green, 9 blue or 3 purple. (*)number needed to max a character and you'll see how much materials you're going to need to convert to max 1 character
-"But thats also part of a Gacha, right, you as a Player need tomanage your resources and farm efficently"
Yes, this is correct, but I also think it shouldn't punish players too hard for trying to experiment. For most people, grinding for characters and make them "useable" isn't that fun and another part of gacha game is to have fun no? If not, what's the point to keep playing?
-"They already redcuced the Money cost for rolling echo substats,"
OMG, I didn't even know that cost money as well. Make it 1/5 things (I forgot skills as well, H-O-L-Y, Capitalism Wave)
-"tbh I never had a Problem with my money in this game."
You should elaborate more on that point to prove your point so it'll help more people better manage their money, but otherwise, good for you. Personally, I don't think the money you gain from the training domain (outside of event) vs the characters lvl up ratio is justified. Even the events doesn't give you much
-"Still need an Item to choose 2 substats per Echo???? In wich game do you have such Items already?"
Your wording is very weird but in any case, let me clarify. Those items are not given in big quantities. You normally use them for a specific equipment for one character. Hoyoverse have already implement it, PGR has that as well and my other gacha games allow me to reroll substats. So it's time for WuWa to do something about it as well.
Reminder: The points I'm making is mostly for new F2P players and won't apply for people that spends money or are day 1 players
@@awalkingfurret4207 But what is the point to plaay the game then even if EVERYTHING in the game is thrown at you for free? 1-2 Hours a day is more than enough for a Gacha and you don't need to build 10 Chars in 3 days. then you would be finished building all your chars in 2 weeks and thats it, you would not have anything to do and dont play the game so often. You have to see this from a companys perspective as well because Playtime is also a very important factor for the sucess of a game. And as I said, you have to manage your resources and DONT try to build like 5 characters at once. Why you need to hurry and build anything right at the start? then you have like everything finished and get 1 new char every 6 weeks or something. Thats how Gacha works. Slow progress, and I know a lot of f2p players who already build many characters since we get so many stuff, through Events and exploration already.
Even day 1 Players had the problems. That's also counts for them because we went through this already, and it was even worse since Kuro made the earlygame easier later on so new Players can reach the endgame faster.
And you can not adjust every little piece of content to new players. Imagine youn are in version 8.3 and someone is complaining about not be able to clear endgame content after he started Playing like a week ago. You are not ment to clear it at this point. I could not clear the first TOA's in 1.0 and 1.1 as well but I knew I will get to that point eventually.
And obviously as a new Player you should not be at the same point of a game as a player who plays since 1.0 in just a month or something.
We don't even have PvP so why so many players want to rush through everything? I don't get it?
And to be fair, we are only in the 6th version update so far (1.0-1.4-2.0) and Kuro already did so much for the players so I am sure that they will keep improving the game. As I said with Materials for example, now we get so many Boxes with materials, early on we didn't have these. The only one thing I see that needs a change for sure is the Echo system, I agree at that point, to have to use 2 different resources (Tuners and echo exp). for a RNG based system is just to much and doesn't feel rewarding at all
Yeah maybe my wording is weird thanks for pointing that out, but English is not my native language but I try my best. Anyway
what I mean by that was, do those kind of Items already exist? I heard that PGR had an Item where you can like choose 1 substat but its very rare, but 2 out of 5 substats? I mean If the Item would be rare and we dont get like 10 of it every patch ok, but that's what people would want once we got this Item, I am pretty sure xD
"You should elaborate more on that point to prove your point so it'll help more people better manage their money, but otherwise, good for you"
Yeah I could write down my journey through the game and explain my thought Process behind my decisions but that would be to much for a comment xD And we already have a bunch of Beginner guides on youtube for example. But I didnt do that and looking back now I maybe would change a few things and decisions I did at the start but overall I am happy with my Account progession so far. (I started the game like 2 weeks after release)
6:02 WHATTTTTT THATS A THING !!!????? I did not know
Very good video and I like the criticisms you gave 👍
Also let me trasmute useless echos into echos of a set of my choice, that would be so good
That would be great. I don't know why they're so stingy with echoes tbh. It's such a neat system when you don't think about how it's actually implemented.
Well u can combine useless echo 5 to 1, but into a random echo & set
Or give you the opportunity to convert Echos you farmed on tacet fields specicfically into Echo exp. But just the ones you farmed via tacet fields, otherwise it would be busted xD
@@Aezthet1C turn 5 useless echo into 1 useless echo yeah
@@Aezthet1C True, but it would be nice to have a little more control.
Like... Let me transmute 10 useless echo into a chosen set, for example.
Or convert useless echoes into a currency instead, like ZZZ does, and allow players to exchance this currency for echoes when they chose. (This would make box management a bit quicker, am give players more flexibility on when to use this currency.)
You could even go a step forthur and allow players to costumize more aspects of an echo, and the greater the specificity, the more it costs. (Like... You could spend 5 currency for one completely random echo, with a chance to get more, just like it works now. But with enough currency, you could chose both the specific echo "species" and the main stat.)
I will suggest this in the next survey
They can also make that the echo we get can be used as exp like 1 1cost adds 1 level 2cost adds 2 and so on so we can just focus on getting Tuners
I really like this video and your ideas with the exception of deleting tuners. I would like for kuro to repurpose them into either rerolling substats or (what i actually want) reroll the stat roll of the particular substat. Ie: say your crit damage rolled 9.5%. Use some of your tuners and reroll that 9.5% to a 21% if you're lucky. The rng is already very punishing, why would you include another level on whether you get a high or low roll.
I can get behind that. But also please include an Echo EXP farm stage...
totally agree with u. WuWa improved a lot since release, and has implemented a lot of QoL from Genshin so it would be nice if devs implemented these changes what u mentioned from ZZZ. also i would say thats WuWa needs more endgame, and better and newer events because ive noticed that they repeated it too offten.
for now Kuro devs has a lot of trust, hopefelly they dont start slacking and contunue deliver quality in their game.
I don't have problem on the tuners i just wish they create legendary tuners or red turner for selecting a substat guarantee and protection turner like in mmo games
😂
Great video Rednu, I believe tuners are a necessary cap so people won't "over farm" echoes using co-op more than they can level up and to stop people to just +5 everything and drop it, a domain just for echo exp would make current taced fields obnoxious in a sense where you can just farm echoes in the overworld and get exp from those domains only.
A lot of these are really good qol's to have but what you're not taking into account here are the differences of zzz and wuwa, in particular the development cost and time differences of PNG discs and W-engines to individually animated echoes and weapon models, of course as consumers we should advocate for more but with an open world, it's trickier and it needs more return from player's time and/or money to reason and compensate the excessive effort they put into making an open world game cohesive, we can see this with the only other gacha open world game with this caliber and how stingy they are, and wuwa is arleady defying expectations.
Let's always want more from these predatory gacha games tho, they made exploration really fast, let's see what other ungacha-like updates they will do next.
Oh yeah, when will we have a 100% weapon on a hoyo game? 😶
Remember when I said reducing the tv stuff could lead to a better game, look how that turned out 😉
Nice video, I don't play ZZZ so I didn't know about these features. I'll be sure to include them in the version feedback. And yes, WW's echo system is really bad, even PGR's system is much better. Even though it's not the best for open world, at least they should adapt it. At least implement the substat selector/reroll that exists in PGR.
I have 4k+ tuners, with 0 echo exp left since I build a day1 temp build for Carlotta. Now I am painstakingly slow on testing my luck with the new frost set 1 echo per day at a time
It is the raw material to upgrade echo. Even though I know it is so much that it is redundant. But it is difficult to change to an unequal value. We should consider not to ask for something unreasonable.
WuWa got one of the best updates but I think ZZZ got the best Patch rn they revamp a lot of there content, they have the best end games in all gacha. I love ZZZ and WuWa. And unfortunately quit genshin and honkai
based
One thing I wish they would take from Sword of Convallaria is allowing players a sort of "preview" of how the gear will roll.
In SoC, there is also a gear piece whose substats are gradually unlocked as you level it up, and when you get a new piece only the set and first substat can be seem. However, each of the other 3 substats have either a bronze, silver, gold, or rainbow colour, which allows the ´players to know if they are a high roll or low roll. Also, the game also tells you exactly how the next substat will roll a few levels until you unlock said stat.
This means you don't need to invest as many resources into each piece to know if they are good or not. (Or, at very least, it allows you to know for sure which pieces cannot roll well.)
I don't think WuWa needs to follow this exact formula, but... At least allowing players a "preview" of the next substat would help a lot on deciding which pieces to invest in, instead of incentivising players to stockpile all echoes with the right set/main stat combination in case they roll well.
Actually I just asked them to make first two substats to be visible on acquisition like in ZZZ, echo conversion into exp, tuner, or mats, ability to inherit or even add substats upon us using already levelled echoes for fodder, and substat rerolling like in BrownDust2
I do agree about the weekly boss and reserve changes. After playing so much Zenless, not having access to weekly boss mats whenever I want to in Wuwa kinda sucks. That being said, I would like to note that the stamina cost of building a units is very similar between Wuwa, Zenless, and even HSR. It's about 21-25 days for a 5 star in each game in terms of total stamina starting from 0 resources (no money, xp, skill mats, etc.). In practice, I find Wuwa is actually faster than Zenless or HSR because of how many resources you get form exploration, illusive realm, TOA shop, events, etc. I am sitting on at least two characters worth of selectable skill mat items that I've hoarded, along with more credits than I know what to do with.
If they implement reserve stamina and weekly boss changes, it would easily become the fastest game in practice for both returning and active players.
i don't agree much on the "hard to lvl up character part" i built cartlotta to 90 with her skill almost all maxed in like 3 days.. that does not seems to be a long day to me. If you do it on a weekend, you get almost all the bosses material you need because you get 9 items from "sunday" let's say, and 9 more from the day after. which bring you with the most important things to build at lvl 10 and the others at 7-8 which is pretty good if you ask me, then wait just 1 week and you can finish the char completely.
As i always say.. the echo part is the big time sink...that is what makes "building characters" a huge pain.
and i have no idea how tuner can be a problem, i never run out XD the echo exp items... THOSE run out very fast if you want to try to roll all stats.. unless you roll only 3 and reuse that echo that didn't roll well. But that's gonna lower the chance to get crit and crit damage by almost 40% because you are NOT rolling 2 stats out of 5, unless the first 3 are insanely good or already have crit stats.
farming echo items should give at least double the amount given now.
I'm pretty sure you had some material stockpiled right? I just rolled Zhezhi and it's going to take me at least 2 or 3 weeks to max her, a weapon, and her skills.
@@Rednu well you can max a character in 2 days as a new player in ZZZ? i never tried it so i can't say.. but i bought some materials in the shop and i had some from previous run , but trust me not that much.. the new synthesis system makes you change material from another material to the one you need, so unless you just started you MUST have stuff from other dungeons too ^^ everything else was materials from this new region i could not farm prior to it.
@@WastedTalent83rednu aint a new player but a returning. If you compare to zzz as a new player ofcourse you cant. But if you are a returning playet in zzz. I guaranty you a week most to max out a character not 2 days tho
@@reedsad4652 so its 1 week instead of 2, i don't see this huge of a difference really. XD its no like characters come out ever 2 weeks, you have all the time to build them.. what you don't make in time to build are the old one, that maybe you like but have not enough material since you're always leveling up the new ones XD
i actually think tuners could actually be good if they make tuners...y'know "tune", to "tune" which echo substats that you dont like and change or reroll until you get the substats that you want. Which will make it make sense for the name.
Then ppl start complaining about not enough tuners, or after getting all amazing substats, they get bored and complain about not enough content
@@dokutah2480 it's still better mechanic than having to endlessly grind and calling it "content" for people to do rather than actually having "real content" like TOA, Depths of Illusive Realm, etc.
Edit : For the lack of tuners, they can just make events or stage/domain to farm them like we have for credits, weapon exp and character exp.
@@maulanarizky7252 Rather than that i'd appreciate being able to focus farm, i.e change the tacet field rewards to giving 3x tuners only but unable to get echos, exp etc etc
@@dokutah2480 you'll run to the same problem eventually, being not enough tuners or exp, one or the other since we only have so many energy to spend. Then after that, it's still up to RNG whether you get a good piece or hot garbage.
Then again, as long as we get enough tuners and exp to the point where we don't need to worry about using them as carefuly and optimally then it's good. Like credits for example, we don't even need to farm credits domain since credits from events and dailies combined is more than enough to cover everything and there's still a ton of them left.
Hey im a big fan loved the vidoe teehee
Echo exp remains my biggest gripe for WuWa. Remember it takes 60 energy (4 runs a day), we get 3 gold 4-5 purples per run (12g, 16-20p a day) at UL80. It takes 13 gold alone to get from lv 20 to lv 25, not including bad rolling.
Just getting a decent workable full set alone can take up to 1.5 - 2 weeks if not more. On top of needing all the other mats to build characters. Its not fun and its discouraging to a lot of people I talk to on discord.
A lot of people come in, pull their favorite/wanted character, and become frustrated with building that character leading to a break from the game which imo decreases player retention rates overall
We need that big 2400 reserve honestly and an echo exp domain like zzz
Converting materials from other weekly bosses, giving us more echo tubes, even if they would cost us stamina. I still need to finish the forte talent from 9 to 10 and atk traces. Devs can make the game even better than it already is.
I hate tuners with a passion. Unlike most people who only tune 1-2 lines before going to the next piece I bring mines to +15 or +20 yet I'm still consistently running out of tuners while sitting on echo exp and thats with me buying the BP since launch.
Im kind of disappointed in myself. I kept a paper nearby while I was playing 2.0 so i could write down all my thoughts. When i was done i submitted my survey but now that im playing after I 100% the events and im trying to strengthen my units Ive just realized theres a horrible resource drought. Its definitely one of the worst in any gacha game. The events/exploration give tons of pulls but very little resources. Also doing the training simulation for a full days energy and getting like 8 gold drops feels terrible. Im struggling with basically every thing except money, especially echo experience.
I feel this so much. Sometimes there are days where you get so little. Zenless takes a while to build characters, but at least the drop rate is predictable and it never feels like I got cheated.
Lol it's not by far the worst in any gacha tho. If you're not preparing days before a new character release it's your problem not the game problem in managing resources. The echo system is shit but there's more Shititer system in the current big gacha games.
I actually put the tuner thing on the player feedback survey couple of days back. I said that the tuners are unnecessary and upgrading echos takes too much resources. I also wish that they have PGRs gatcha system because i keep hearing good things about it like you can guarantee to get the limited character and their weapon in the same patch just by farming it, like you don't have to skip any character and weapon banners at all if you just want 1 copy of each, now some might say i might be too greedy from this but i still want it.
An Echo System that I think would be cool if implemented in WuWa is when we use an Echo to level up another Echo, let us choose a Substatus that has already been unlocked in the Echo to go to the new Echo
The problem with this sort of system is that it creates a sort of pressure to build "perfect" echoes, and keep fusing/rerolling stats until there is no room for improvement at all.
That said, something like what was implemented on Epic 7 could be nice. (You can only alter one stat per gear piece, you choose which stat to get, and the value is pre-determined based on how high your original roll was. So... If you got a high roll into a stat, your new stat will also get a high roll. This takes away a lot of the pressure from the "stat reroll" proccess, imo.)
Yup 1800 tuners. 2 gold tubes, 2 purple tubes, 1 green tube.
hum i have lot of excess xp material (for characters) and i leveled all my char short of 3
while i struggle to level up in ZZZ
so i'd argue ZZZ need to give more character xp material
but yeah overall , 3 free weekly boss + infinite boss for some waveplates would be huge
could we maybe have a system to re-roll sub stats using tuners. like have 5 extra re-rolls on each stat and every time it cost more tuners. this way we can use the existing systems but with more options
I mean there's a survey so you can take your point there too. I too honestly some points I want to improve and I will take my time to share it on their upcoming survey. The good thing is that Kuro takes those survey seriously and make some changes and improvements based on what the community wants. That shows that Kuro really listens to their community... Unlike some of the other company out there who thinks of you as their cashcows (yeah I'm looking at you Hoyoverse 😒).
Oh I will. The point of the video is to give others ideas to put on their survey.
That weekly in ZZZ doesn't feel weekly to me actually, it feels like overworld boss. It's good, but i don't know if it will be implemented in WuWa. Let's just write it on feedback.
My suggestion would be just let us carry the weekly boss attempt from every week before this (that we haven't done yet) to next week. For example, week 1 I don't play the game, the weekly boss attempt is 3/3. And then, week 2, because last week i didn't play the game, now the weekly boss attempt sit at 6/3. It's good enough for me actually.
I feel like you need to farm tacet fields for, let's say, 4 days. Spend 1000 waveplates on it, and tell me you're not able to make GREAT if not COMPLETE progress on your echos for one character.
My take on this is that I know we all love what the developers did with the current version, and all suggestions that were mentioned are valid. However , if Kuro made the game too accessible for everybody, drawbacks may occur, and I'm worried that Kuro is putting most of their effort on one game only and might get some hard time developing other games. There's a saying to not put all your eggs on one basket just like hoyo did with their games.
I'd be interested to see the other way round video as well
Great points but I'm confused on the tuners, since I actually quite like the system, I feeling like removing it would just be turnin the echo system in genshins artifacts
What part of it do you like?
I really hate hoyoverse artifact rolling system. It feels so bad when you get a really good piece with only 1 bad stat and thanks to hoyo rng, the artifact ends up as crap.
Wuthering waves tuning at this point is just an unnecessary step. You are going to do it any ways while you are levelling up to each step and i have so many of them that i have not yet converted the 3 star and 4 star tuning materials in my inventory.
The real bottleneck is echo exp. Either they have to increase the tacet field rewards or reduce the waveplate cost. I understand that it will break the game if we can feed the random unlevelled echo for exp as we get tons of them in the overworld but they have to increase echo exp. I literally used lingering tunes for both Camellya and Xiangli yao as I can't be bothered to farm the havoc set due to constantly running out
One of the best features of HSR is the saved every
I wish we could get more than 480
i think about the tuners part is. i think they don't need to get rid of it but just add another option to use an echoes since some players got a lot of tuners it would be a waste to trash them
My suggestion is to convert them into echo exp mats when deleting. I'm not suggesting deleting them and not compensating the player lol
We need Tectone to react this video is amazing !!
Tuners are garbage but I love that zzz gives me a refund on discs that ever worked out and let me recycle them, made farming so much nicer even with the rng garbage
Just only about the echo exp, there are already many people farming on the open world map for echo, I think or I assume the tuner was designed to limit how many echo you can level up no matter how many you farm, it's a max cap.
Should wuwa be more generous? I think so. Should they change the system? I guess so. But I still think there can be a better way to balance this.
farming for echoes != farming for echo exp though. Echoes can't be melted purely into exp, it's only after you gave them echo exp that they can transfer it to something else. tuners does nothing to limit it. You also have echo daily limits. So I don't see the utility of tuners, and especially so since tuners aren't the problem with most people's accounts. It's echo exp.
@@Rednu Okay I don't know that because on my account, exp and tuners are not balanced, I got extra exp but no tuners now. I thought you will get more exp than tuners. I hope they can address this problem maybe in first anniversary.
Ok, maybe i am dumb, but i had problems with echo leveling only at the beginning. I never have it now. most of the time echos are shit anyways so at lvl 15 i see it and stop leveling. garbage leveling is usable to upgrade another echos and it goes on.
I play both wuwa and zzz, both are good 😊
not really worried about this now because i'm sure they will fix this sht. i would mold if they dont change it in 3.0 (but yeah as of now the leveling echoes is not fun)
Let's device a constructive criticism. I want to see the developer side and player side.
We all know Game developers want resident player to keep playing while attracting new player (tourist)
As a player myself, I had the experience of running out of Tuners, for the first time, it's wild for me. I agree with the idea of just leveling the echoes to get substat, but Echoes in general don't have them so you can roll, this is the developer thing to do, slowed player progression a bit so they have time preparing content for the next patch.
This contradict the echoes not having substat when captured. If we put percentage on substat, it becomes more tiresome seeing your HP echoes with insane crits, while the ATK percent gives flat HP and Def.
1. My suggestion is to give Tuners drops when beating the echoes, just purple ones are enough because you can grind them. Not having to rely on Tacet. This puts incentives for hardcore sweaty player who loves to grind.
2. My favorite suggestion of your is the Pure Echoes EXP. That is great. Simple and not too demanding. As a player I like this.
3. But I think the developer side would have a gripe with the Boss material as it is their attempt to slow down progress. Therefore I suggest, You paying double the energy, just like Tacet and Forgery challenge, but you the maximum you can do is 3 times per week. This Give the players option to overgrind than usual with the thought of them not having to wait another week, but considering excess boss material that they might get (maybe not useful for other character)
4. While I'm still on track, I suggest Ascension material conversion, I have so many excess ascension material from getting 5 of them sometime out of random. Let me convert them to other ascension material, that is my complain on this conversion QOL
Meanwhile me have 2400 waveplates and 80x reserve 😂
substats and tuners, no instead of getting rid of tuners. tuners should allow reroll of substats, in this case take the system not from hoyo but from the first descendant (weapons)
WE NEED MORE WAVEPLATES REWARDS THAN ECHO TUNE ITEM!!
I literally struggle to obtain as much pull currency in Wuwa compared to zzz in like 4-5 days I got 80ish+ something pulls for wuwa 60(thats with in game mail rewards) at best with hard grind with its long quests for small amount of Asterites..... I think all of those 22k asterites are laying behind end game content and tons of chests and mini games that scattered around the whole open world which also I don't understand why zzz redeem codes can stay like half a year meanwhile wuwa fresh redeem codes expires like after a week ?? hUh?? it just feels suboptimal to get all of that because it requires lots of your time and for end game content you actually need to build your characters or else you get shitted on in hologram so - endlessly farm echoes.... and literally enchant and trade resources to actually unlock character lvl upgrade cap..... for new players that want to get some limited characters like Carlotta that would be a real hustle and god forbid they lose 50/50 ain't no way they are getting those 80 pulls anytime soon....
As a new player I can't even level my carlotta anymore because one of the ascension materials (the flower one) is only made available in the new area and I'm still in the starting area. I have to halt my entire account progression if I want to keep using her and not have her bricked until I reach the new area. Unless i'm mistaken and someone can correct me. That's just poor design imo
Either get rid of Tuners OR keep the tuners but let people farm infinite echo exp and use their level 0 echos as exp. Since you’d be limited by Tuners anyway in that case
I would just scrap the tuner system, it’s tedious and no one likes it, when it comes to echoes Kuro doesn’t listen cause every player I know complains about it and it never got fixed.
2:33 Actually no, ZZZ takes like 30+ days to farm for a character from zero to 100, while WuWa is a bit over two weeks. I know because I play both.
Also tbh I leveled Carlotta and her weapon in less than 24 hours from getting them
It took you 24 hours from scratch? There's absolutely no way lol. It would take you 30+ days to farm a character in ZZZ from scratch, sure.
from scracth u would farm longer in WuWa just because they limit weekly boss drops period, specially for newer characters who wants newer boss mats. and im always low on mats for skills what u getting from killing mobs because i dont like clear maps for hours to farm them. ive maxed Harumasa and Miyabi in 2 days(all level and weapons+all skills) because i had a lot of mats stored and can farm weekly bosses as long i have energy. In WuWa i maxed Carlotta and her weapon in 2 days and im still didnt maxed her skill tree just because of weekly boss mats (currently max lvl 7 skills)
@@arzr_er if you're gonna make a point like that then I levelled miyabi and her weapon the moment i got them 🤣and her basic, ex and ult to max, everything except core skill to F
Actually, correction, it takes ~21 days from scratch. It only takes more than 30 days if you're not IK Lv50+.
I agree
About echo exp to be divided from echo farming, i think Kuro might agree with that.
That's actually perfect solution.
Since old players got overwhelm bcs they have to many echoes in their bag and illusive realm give us to many freebies.
Agreed
Kuro bots noted it
I need more tuners =(
Nah, Remember this is comin from a guy who rate this 2.0 story 10 lmao
And?
yeah, the slow progression is a pain in the ass, i am considering quitting wuwa.
To be honest, Wuwa 2.0 isn't perfect.
Don't get me wrong, it is great, but there are still some issues (I really hated the Echo system for example) and I found myself drop the game after a week.
I'm about as big of a Kurobot as you can be, and I agree with 100% of this video. Best thing about being a Kurobot is we actually like criticism.
Tuners are literally a useless material, idk who designed this garbage.
to me, aside some small glitches that are still in the game..
The only thing they should fix is echoes material availability. i cannot see any other bad side honestly.
ToA is way too hard for me, but that gives me a reason to improve my team and my game play.
Sure its bitter not to get all the items in the tower but also.. can't care less xD
Someone forgets that ZZZ is not independent and belongs to Hoyoverse. The only reason it’s being generous is because it’s not being played as much as HSR and Genshin, which are also in decline due to their exploitative practices. The flaws in HSR are already showing, with the high damage dealt by characters and the nerfs to bosses. If they need more money, they’ll turn against ZZZ, and thinking that ZZZ will always be like this while knowing it belongs to Hoyoverse… hahaha, no way. That’s why many people don’t play it-simply because it’s owned by Hoyoverse. As for Wuwa, it’s made by Kuro Games, which was already generous with PGR. It’s not the same, and when you start to see the cracks in ZZZ, it’ll be too late.
I'm not sure what you're saying. You think they will roll back these features..? Like of course, they will do less QoL as the game does better, same with Wuthering Waves. These were concessions. But they're not going to roll back these features lol these are here to stay and can be used as reference to improve Wuthering Waves.
this video is mainly how some zzz features will be great for wuwa.. i dont see in any universe how your comment is relevant.. wuwa is great a game but dang wuwa players is like genshin fanbase pure cancer 😂 both game's insecure players always point out which is which is better😂 the only great game kuro made is wuwa pgr cant even touch hoyoverse big 3 even if they gave all pgr characters for free 😂😂
But if wuwa is sk great why does the number diwndling
Wuthering waves copied all Genshin and HSR features , now It's time to copy ZZZ features , did the game have anything their own ?
Seriously wondering
Does that matter?
@Rednu definitely not matter if the game only want to knw as a knockoff .
In a certain point it matters since creativity and uniqueness adds a lot when selling a game no?@@Rednu
Like what? Rinascita is the best patch, if not among the top 5 best patches in all of gacha gaming. The only thing that matters is if the game is fun. Palworld copied Pokemon, Genshin copied BotW, all the standout BRs copied DayZBR, VALORANT copied CS, League of Legends copied Dota. When is it copying and when is it inspiration, improving, or porting? Nobody cares if the game is fun. Nobody should care about anything else.
@@Rednu Well the difference is ,whn we talk about Genshin i haven't seen anyone talking about Botw, meanwhile WW , all they talk about is Genshin 😭.
No thanks, especially from you, that just makes you have excuses to create some more dumbass dramas
Wuwa again, gonna leave
Im gonna touch you.
i don't play zzz and i don't like zzz but rally ty . as wuwa plyer i rally hope thy do same the staff you say its will help allot XD
Came back after 4 months, I wanted to start on the ps5. I was blessed with 2x Carlotta my first 10 pull, then her weapon in 30 pulls. But I never progressed the story much. Now I have this cracked character stuck at level 40. I got PTSD from character farming from genshin. I haven't played since I pulled her.