How Peugeot Dominated the Dying Days of Group C
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Group C sportscar racing birthed some of the greatest racing machines ever made. Icons of the automotive world like the dominant Porsche 956 and 962, the monstrous Sauber-Mercedes C9, and many, many more. But for over a decade after the introduction of the fastest class in sportscar racing, no French manufacturer was able to win their home event, the greatest endurance event in the world, the 24 hours of Le Mans.
#racing #lemans #peugeot - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Great video as always, love hearing about the racing monster of the WSC.
1 thing though, Peugeot only supplied Mclaren for 1994 in F1.
Glad you enjoyed the video! You're right about the McLaren deal. I think I read that the original deal had been expected to last until 2000, but while writing the script I made a mistake. Thanks for pointing it out
@@automobilistic No worries, happy to be of any help.
Keep up the great work, and have a great weekend.
@@automobilistic it was for till 2000 the engine was in f1 till 2003 as asiatec in arrows and miniardi
The Peugot engine in the McLaren was an absolute grenade. I felt so sorry for Martin Brundle having to struggle with that powerplant, the number of times it let go on him was criminal.
@@stevesullivan9377 I still remember Häkkinen's engine blowing up in Magny Cours, it was that spectacular.
Small correction, the Le Mans speed record the WM P88 Peugeot set is 407km/h, Peugeot however claimed it as 405km/h to advertise their 405 road car.
You're right. I had always believed it was 405, I should have thought to check it beyond surface level. Having just done some reading now Peugeot did a good job, the top few results on google all quote 405!
It's officialy 405kph, in 1987 they even reached 410kph but the radar couldn't record it.
And still, some information talk about more than 420 ...
Wasnt the main problem with reaching high top speeds for cars like the Veyron that no tires would resist the forces of rotating at that speed? How did these cars managed it?
If the 905 through the evo 1 and evo 1B look like they are from the lmp1 class rather than early 90’s gr. C and that is just what i think is so friggin cool about it, it was so advanced it STILL looks modern!
The 905 Evo 2 looked like it could have been made today
@@Sean-if7rpgod that thing is awesome looking. i want one lmao
peugeot somehow manages to occasionally interrupt their production of boring, reasonably average cars and produce some of the most legendary machines motorsport has ever seen, a truly unique company
I couldn't have put it better myself hahaha
205 GTIs are a hoot, even the Rallyes too
Have you even driven a 205, 309, 106, 206, 306 or 405?
Nothing at all boring about those cars. Or maybes it's cos they don't light up the spec sheet with big power and acceleration numbers. They have built some of the best drivers cars a company has ever put into production.
@@rahulmandala4930 dude, the 205 was created FOR Group B...
@@derrickstorm6976 group b or not, the 205 was already there
The 905 evo is a dream to look at Reefus!
I love the combination of futurism with the elegant bodywork.
Also more wing is more vrooom, right?
We might have to disagree on the looks, but bigger wing = bigger speed for sure!
It looks surprisingly modern
I absolutely love Peugeot, I grew up with my dad having a Peugeot 505 station wagon, then he bought a 405 t16 station wagon and it blew the normal Mercedes, Audi and BMW drivers away. I guess my dad was just a really good driver. Unfortunately someone decides to smash this car up by forgetting to break. Then he got a Renault Espace v6, oh my that van was fast. But when the new series came out he got a Peugeot 106 GTI, us kids where grown up then and he didn't need a big car anymore.. what a hooligan that vehicle was.
I miss Peugeot making good cars, I would buy one if they had anything great now.
Thanks for the memories 😍
This is my favourite Le Mans-winning car. I love the styling. Always have. At the 2022 Le Mans race I bought a postcard of an illustration of this car as a memento. it was the only thing I could afford to buy! The other mementos were two pieces of confetti (one blue and one gold), debris from the Sunday Ferrari crash at the Porsche curves, and some rubber I pulled from the final curb on the track.
4:47 Nah it’s a beautiful race car one of the most beautiful tbh. The fact that it looks so radically different than other cars of that era is one of the main reasons it’s so beautiful. Plus, everything plus the cockpit and behind is just perfection.
The WM-P88 is so absurd that might be worth its own video. The main goal of the car wasn't winning the race, but setting the speed record at Lemans, they were aware of their Twin-Turbo V6 being nothing but a mere glass cannon. The car only ran for a few laps, but it was enough to set the speed record and their mission was accomplished. The funny thing is, even if the official speed record clocked the WM-P88 at 407 KM/H, Peugeot said it was 405 KM/H. Why? In order to match with their new 4-door saloon, the 405 and use it as a publicity stunt.
Also, the rear wing of the 905 is super cool, it looks so unique.
Your videos are awesome. Growing up with the Gran Turismo games I fell in love with cars, espcially 90's JDM and Group C cars. Glad I've found your channel. Cool and not so long videos. Great job! You definitely deserve more attention.
Thanks! Really glad you like the vids :)
I remember the 905C back in Forza Motorsport 2 and how recognizable the car was with its double wing and sleek design. It is still my favorite proper race car ever.
McLaren only used Peugeot power for the 1994 season before the Mercedes era. Jordan used them for 95, 96 & 97 before switching to Mugen-Honda
Yes, I pinned a comment correcting the mistake
love the look of the early 90s group c cars, super futuristic for the time, gread video as always!
absolutely love group c, Mercedes Sauber c9 and c11 are my favourites
The 905 is a fabulous car.
What people often forget is peugeot have built many amazing cars over the years
What I love about this car's design is that it pretty much predicted the modern prototype race car design with it's giant wings and overall weird boxy design.
I love the classic gran turismo shop/prize car ost in the background
The Jaguar XJR-14 and Peugeot's 905B evo2 are Group C's best looking cars ever. And they are as fast as they are beautiful. Solid thanks Tom ✊🏽
The Peugeot 905 is my favourite Group C car for aesthetics 😭
I wonder why people think is ugly.
Love the 905, especially the B with that wacky wing that I just can't help to admire. It looks like it makes the car longer like the 'long tails' of old. Thank you for telling the that the engines were derived from F-1 rather than just being bolted in F-1 engines.
I like your channel. This was a nice video, thanks!
Always liked the look of the Peugeot especially with spats. The only new car our family had was a 1960 Peugeot station wagon here in the States. Learned to drive in that car with its column shifted four speed.
Awesome video with all the old race footage of the car,I remember racing this car on Gran Turismo 4 and Gran Turismo 6.Brings back memories.💯✌🏻
Such visually in style beautiful and modern looking car
0:50 the P88 set 407 kph speed record
But they advertized it as 405 for the newly released Peugeot 405
4:44 well i think it sbeautiful
together with the c9/11, 956 and the 905 evo were the most beautiful cars in group c 🤠
Well I certainly agree with you about the C9/11 and the 956!
@@automobilistic 🙏
@@automobilistic just came back to this vid. You make some really good ones man, even rewatchable 😁
Awesome video. Feeling the same about the car although the double rear wing is cool and the Evocopter looks amazing. Looking forward to the next video. Keep up the good work.
I think the 905s are some of the best looking Le Mans cars of all time. The silk cut xjr-9 is the most beautiful and so is the Bentley Speed 8
The XJR14 and 905B look fantastic, what I wouldn't give to see a grid full of similar final iteration group C cars, it's such a shame sports car racing always seems to die after creating it's greatest cars be they late 60's early 70's, late 80's early 90's or GT1 or LMP1 etc....
First video = like
Second = subscription
Third = bell
Great content!
Thanks! Glad you're enjoying them
The 905 Evo is the most beautiful Group C car ever in my opinion.
Wait DASSAULT LIKE THAT DASSAULT? THE FUCKING MIRAGE
Great footage and commentary again. Thank!
Good video but I have to pick you up on a historical point. The driving force behind the 3.5 litre class was not Bernie Ecclestone, it was Jean Marie Balestre who was head of the then motorsport governing body FISA until 1991. At the time of group C's demise, Bernie Ecclestone was the head of FOCA, the Formula One Constructors Association and had no control over sports cars.
I think you're right about the actual positions held, but to say Ecclestone had no control over sports cars isnt true. He had far reach in motorsport. It is pretty widely accepted in most publications that have written about the death of Group C that it was Ecclestone who was the driving force. The motivation? To get Mercedes and Peugeot into F1 (it worked). Of course confirming this 100% is difficult, its an in-tangible.
I think it looks stunning.
For me there are 2 reasons why the Mazda stands out. The noise of the thing. I SAID THE NOISE OF THE THING. and of course JOOOOOOHHHNNNYYYY Herbert. The greatest F1 driver of all time :)
Fantastic video as always, love the cheeky lines as well lol.
Thank you for the correct prononciation of Le Mans and avoiding the infamous "leumah"
New viewer love this channel
The reason why it beat the TS010 was because of power... The aero on the TS010 was on another level, it's even more efficient than a Porsche 919 Hybrid. What a marvel.
1st class content 🥂
Love Peugeot!! Great video mate! Hope yall are going to watch 8hrs of Bahrain this weekend. Happy racing everyone.
Thanks for the Gran Turismo OSTs,
Supercopter indeed one of my all time le mans design car, it's classic yet futuristic at the same time
Another cracking video! Wonder if you could do a video on the Pikes Peak Pennzoil Celica, that'd be interesting 👌
Glad you enjoyed the video! I'll add the Pikes Peak Celica to the list, I'll have to do some research on it
I love the video that you make bro, great explain for le mans fans
all that exhaust/burnt fuel @0.25 is fucking glorious
Omg I didn’t see the other videos on your channel but if they are as good as this one you’re going to be my favorite motorsports guy
Thanks! Really glad you enjoyed the video! I hope you enjoy the others too :)
@@automobilistic yes they are all amazing thanks for your channel really
The quality of your thumbnails is amazing
thanks! they're the first thing people see I try to get them right haha
I always thought the first 905 looked awkward and a bit old fashioned particularly compared to the Xjr14 from the same year. It reminds me of some of the cars that ran in the early days of group c that look like they belong in the previous decade, like the first WM's and the old Rondeau compared to the 956.
Yeah I agree, it looked much more like an 80s car than a 90s car. clearly it was behind the times because they felt the need to upgrade it pretty early on haha
@@automobilistic I think the 1993 version was far, far uglier. Well done Peugeot, that took some doing.
Back in the 80s motor sport was like the wild west.
The rule where just there to be smashed to bits with loop holes.
Every person involved at the time always want to bring up that era it must have been a great time to be a driver, engineer, boss.
Regardless of the bad bits like ending up in a fire ball.
This man doesn’t miss. Amazing as usual
Just to put the emphasis on who designed the body of the car, Dassault, those who made the french airforce main fighter jet for 50 years now, it's like if an american indycar was design by lockeed Martin...
I believe it was the chassis designed and built by Dassault, not the body. But their aerospace credibility certainly played a part in getting the contract I'm sure haha
"So bad that only 3 manufacturers competed as factory teams"
*Cough Cough*
WEC since 2018
Easily the most beautifull groupC car ever
I think they look beautiful.
I like the car, it looks similar to other group c cars during the 1991 season though.
The only bad thing I have about the 905 is that in Gran Turismo 4 it took weeks to change gears
yeah there was definitely something wrong with the car's gearbox in that game lol. No idea why they did that
@@automobilistic that's why the Toyota Minolta 88C-V was the best prototype in the game
I remember that too, strange that they ruin a le mans winning beast
That and the awful engine sound. It was nothing like the real thing which sounds like a F1.
Strange that Peugeot finally dialed in the engine reliability, yet with Jordan in 3.5 litre F1 era, their engines were like grenades.
Correction: Peugeot didn't supply McLaren until 2000. They only did it in 1994. From then on, McLaren used Mercedes engines. Peugeot did, however, supply other F1 teams, like Jordan and Prost.
About the 905B, I think it's one of the most beautiful cars that ever raced at Le Mans.
The XJR14 was so good Porsche bought 1 and reverse engineered it. 😆
I don't view the 905 as classically beautiful, I view it as very emblematic of a period of sports car racing that was completely bonkers. That alone makes it beautiful, in its own way.
I loved the look of the 905b. It looked like a zspaceship compared to most of the other cars
Enjoyed muchly
the best looking protype ever
For me 905 is the most beautifull group C
Their unused prototype could be used today, unless it's just a museum piece rip
Didn't guess that one, in the post it was the 1991 version. I should have guessed with the big scoop
It was Ecclestone's goal to destroy Group C, and he pulled out all the stops to get rid of the competition.
It's fair to say that Peugeot copied that 2-tier wing design straight from the TWR Jaguar team. Keke Rosberg said that TWR copied the 905 for their XJR-14 so appropriating their 2-tier wing was just business. Of course, the two cars didn't resemble each other much especially at the start of the season so Rosberg's accusations were pretty baseless.
It had the coolest rear wing ever. I saw one of those "stance" cars rocking a strikingly similar massive rear wing on a car show once and the owner said he ripped the look from this peugeot le mans car. Even i remember this rear wing from my childhood.
They actually ripped-off the 2-tier rear wing from the Jaguar team half-way through the 1991 season. All they would be faster than the Jaguar by the end of the season, it was too little too late to beat the Jaguar in the championship.
the record is 407km. peugeot said it was 405 as they could then use it that in the launch of the 405 car that was coming out at the same time
Do you know where I could find live footage from the time of the rolls royce paris dakar? I can only find still shots and it's not doing the car any justice!
Its been a long time since I've heard mention of the Dakar Rolls-Royce! To answer your question, I have no idea. Project Dream made a good video about the car, but I believe they only used still images. I know from my video about the Porsche 959 that Dakar footage is very hard to find, but I wish you the best of luck!
@@automobilistic thanks!
Also, tobacco sponsorship was banned in France from 1991/2.
Dassault makes the mirage and rafale fighter jets. So they know a thing or two about going fast
can you maybe make more f1 cars? maybe rb cars or mercedes cars (edit: maybe mclaren). that'd be great!
Wrc group B handshake 🤝 WEC Group C
Where can that optional frontwing be seen?
As Enzo Ferrari once said, “Race cars are neither beautiful nor ugly. They become beautiful when they win.”
So if caterham won in 2014 it would’ve been beautiful?
As I realized in Gran Tourismo: Why did they go for a 5 speed transmision?
405 mi16 pikes peak
205 t16 rally
And group c
Peugout used to make monsters
The suicidal peugeot, one of the coolest cars in racing history
5:00 agree. Cool but not beautiful or distinct… just cool
I'd say it is probably distinct (not much else like it), but as you say, not beautiful lol
2:46 What car is in front of the Peugeot
"don´t make a french joke, don´t make a french joke"
bro you just made a french joke
i made a custom lego peugeot 905 (the second 905)
Saying the 905 isn’t beautiful should warrant jail time hahahah
Alpine-Renault won Le Mans with the A442 in 1978.
Yes, and Rondeau won in 1980. Neither were Group C cars.
edit: A number of French cars have won Le Mans, Peugeot were the only ones to do so in the Group C era
It's definitely a beautiful car, but in an intimidating way, like a Saber toothed tiger
Bernie Ecclestone wasn't the only one responsible for the new 1991 regulations. Mosley and Ballestre were complicit too.
The idea was to attract manufacturers to F1, sacrificing Group-C and C2 in the process.
In 1991, every team that used older cars were heavily penalizedfrom the start (except for Mazda) and didn't stand a chance.
Porsche all the way!!
The fastest any frog has gone forwards is 236mph in 1976 with the Renault-Alpine A442B. Unfortunately, the French have got a gearbox which could see a 300mph car but they can't figure out how to drive the car in reverse for the race. If they can figure it out they might take the white... um.. checkered flag. 🏳
McLaren switched to Mercedes in '97 I belive.
Yeah I made a mistake with the dates there. I believe Peugeot's original contract was to 2000 but it was cut after just a year. I've pinned a comment correcting the mistake
Sad how Peugeot struggled in F1 after the Le Mans glory.
I have to disagree with the looks assessment. I believe the car stunning, with the massive wing almost positioned on the next car behind the Peugeot.. Lol.. Seriously the car and the ultra modern F-16 bubble canopy give the car a futuristic look that would be at home today.
1) 715 was a good power level, and I hope it was referred to the endurance spec. So I'm now wondering why the Peugeot was the F1 factory engine certified to be always the one underpowered, since for 300km/2hrs long races get other horse power out should not have been very difficult.
2) some said that Todt got permission to overspend and no other manufacturer wanted to risk its reputation against your boring, vulgar maker of average mass cars of all things. Gr. C was a 'dead man walking' because FIA wanted all these constructors in F1, so everyone was happy to have the mass car manufacturer guilty for its own success.
3) was not even born at the time but the 905B is a personal fav among those monsters.
happy Saturday morning y'all. Second
great video Countreefus
Greetings from Los Angeles ! Wherever you may be
I am curious how the 1992 905 would have competed against the 1991 787B
905 os the fastest. But in reliability 787b is the best. Also during 1991 le mans this both car actually racing each other. But 905 DNF after engine issue
God I love that era of racing.
Aesthetically I've always found the 905B to be a step on from the original 905
I agree, I think the first 905 was a much better looking car. Much less aerodynamically effective though unfortunately