Electrify America vs. EVgo vs. Chargepoint: UPDATE- A Month Later, Are The Faulty Chargers Working?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.พ. 2023
- #electrifyamerica #evgo #chargepoint #electricvehicle #dcfc #id4 #ev
In January 2023, Evan compared DC fast charging at Electrify America vs. EVgo vs. Chargepoint. The results were...not good. Join Evan as he retests these same stations to see if the operators have done anything to fix their poor performing chargers.
Here is our first comparison of Electrify America vs. EVgo vs. Chargepoint:
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I think these charger reviews are valuable for non Tesla owners. Sad to see all the issues.
Thanks! It is definitely frustrating.
Evan, I want you to know that I very much appreciate your willingness to test DC fast charging dispensers/chargers. This is a significant contribution to the community of BEV drivers and enthusiasts and to the community of charge operators. My hope is that you and others will do this regularly. Once I purchase my BEV next year, I plan to do this regularly in my area and publish my results on Kyle Conner's "Rate Your Charge" service and on PlugShare. I'm retired and have the time. Again, thanks very much for doing this.
I really appreciate those kind words. Glad that these videos are useful for you! I’m new to BEVs myself, and wow, the learning curve was/is big. I’m hoping these videos cut down the learning curve a bit for others! And hopefully, overtime, videos like these impact the decision making of charge point operators. Good luck with your BEV! Reporting every poor charging experience is very helpful, so thank you in advance!
@@goneelectricUntil I got my mobile charging kit from Tesla, I tried going before 7am to charge at off peak rates (my fav lot went from 17¢/kWh to 18¢ )waah!). Do non-NACS offer similar rates (when working)? Do their “finder” maps work as well, letting you see rate plans, charger #s, availability, & power levels? Do non-NACS cars precondition batteries & auto navigate to chargers. Do the get reliable, frequent, & care free OTAUs?
Another great video, good job. In my experience over the past year and a half with my Ioniq 5, I have found, that no matter what the network you try to charge with, whether it be EA, EVGo, Francis, ChargePoint, et al, the normal charging rate that users should expect to see is around 50 kw. I don’t care what it says on the dispenser, those labels mean absolutely nothing, because all you should expect to get is 50 kw. This is what a CCS EV owner should expect. If you get anything faster than that, consider yourself extremely lucky. It is really sad, and has not gotten any better at all over time.
Thanks! Yes, that’s often what I experience as well. Shameful since the cars themselves are great…
I regularly get over 130kw in my Kia EV6.
What is the charging curve of the ID4. Don’t most EV’s start lower when below 20% of charge?
Thanks Evan, all of these charge rates would be adequate for my Bolt EUV. Ninety-nine percent of the time I'm home charging up here in the Bay Area.
You got it! That’s a win for the Bolt. Home charging is always a big advantage- glad you’ve got it!
@@goneelectric I just hope that it doesn't take 2 years for the infrastructure money to build out the chargers.
Nice video Evan! So important to check out, monitor and report on the state of play re: charging infrastructure reliability and readiness.
Thanks! Hopefully our reporting spurs improvement of the infrastructure, or at least helps prepare folks for what they can expect.
Well done series, thanks for your efforts. And thanks for using a microphone.
You’re welcome!
Thank you for both your original and update/recheck on your local Southern California DC chargers. In rural Wisconsin we couldn't currently rely on public chargers. I have solar panels on our farm in a grid tie system but have my Bolt EUV set to charge overnight in our garage at level 2 (240v 50 a) The few times I've tried using a public DC fast charger my experience has been somewhat random as your tests indicate. I'll give it 5-10 years before I would feel comfortable relying on public charging on a long distance trip. For now our Bolt fills our needs for local (up to about 200 mi round trip) daily travel, charged at home. We do have a gas Subaru for trips up north or longer than 200 mi round trip or in snow but the Bolt gets about 80% of our annual miles. A big savings in fuel and maintenance costs. Thanks again.
You got it! Thanks for those kind words. Your setup sounds great for your needs. It is always a shot in dark spending on public charging- I agree we have years to go until it becomes reliable enough for mass buy-in.
Hopefully the new bill motivates them to improve the chargers
I was laughing at you because you kept forgetting to close the charge door and put the covers back on.
Well I bought my Ariya a few days ago, charged yesterday and what do I do? Forgot to close those damn things 🤦♂️🤣. I had drove a few miles to target, got out to see I left it open. Smh
It's easy to forget about after you put the plug back.
I still laugh myself for doing it! It's embarrassing when you can hear it smacking the side of the car. I'm looking forward to seeing some Ariya's on the road! Congrats on the purchase!.
Thanks for the video. I have always charged my '2022 Tesla at home (except for 2 brief instances to check super chargers and both were successful with 250kw intitially on a V3). I seems the "up time" for Superchargers is much better, but still a chance they could be full on roadtrips. A shame about EA/EVGO/ChargePoint since I agree mass EV adoption needs all the working chargers it can get.
You're welcome! Yes, up time has been documented to be much better for Tesla SCs. The rest are quite poor. Lots of work to do.
Would be great if you had a OBD dongle and an app to show battery temp. The Taycan can display battery temp, when routing to a DCFC of 150 kW or more my battery heats to nearly 100°F to give optimal fast charging. Different cars, of course have different target temperatures based on battery chemistry, and the thermal management of the battery.
I’ve been thinking of getting an OBD dongle for that data. Funny/annoying that ID4 it doesn’t have battery temp data or pre-conditioning since Porsche is a part of VW! Enjoy that Taycan!
@@goneelectric Unless you actually know the battery temperature, it is hard to declare, that the dispenser is the problem and not the car. 👍👊✌🖖
These were really interesting fro me. Partly that's due to me living in Seal Beach for 35 years, so I know exactly where you are. I have a Tesla and home charging, so charging has proved not to be an issue for me. However, this sort of crappy service is killing EV adoption. Why are these so bad? Here's my guess. Most of the commercial stations were built with heavy incentives from government and the VW settlement over emissions fraud. They made their money already just by building the stations. They really don't give a shit whether they work well.
Glad you enjoyed the local tour! I think, unfortunately, you’re accurate. Most of the grants and subsidies drive installation, not maintenance. It has to change or else it does pose a threat to mass BEV adoption.
I mostly do level 2 home charging for my Polestar. The problem in trying to do EV charging station brand comparison reviews is that they are different every time you visit. The one that worked last week doesn't work this week. The most common problem comes from downrating and slow charging speeds even with a car that preheats the battery. I typically do not have charge anxiety unless I have to take a road trip, which is not very often. I recently used my ICE simply because I could not rely on chargers being functional on a drive to Phoenix, AZ. I do get frustrated with the lack of reliability with CSS chargers. It will be interesting to see the competitive shift as Tesla progressively opens up its chargers. They are not better chargers; there are just more of them and they are reportedly down less often.
I tried Elect/American and it said it initiated the charging but it didn’t deliver any juice. Wasted 20 minutes trying to troubleshoot. Gave up after calls to CS had long call waits.
If you re-test the EVgo station, try out the Delta 100 kW units as well. I've had great luck using them with my Bolt EUV. It won't max out your car, but 200 amps is better than what you were getting from the ostensibly 350 kW Signet units.
I will do that! That's the truth, especially if you really need the juice.
I love my EV but when friends who are contemplating buying an EV ask me about my experience, I tell them to hold off. The infrastructure simply is not there as your videos so accurately demonstrate. I do have a home charger and use it unless I'm going a longer distance. But I can't, for instance, get toTahoe from the north Bay Area without a stop because of the uphill grade. But when I get to Truckee the Elec. Amer. is down and the next one is in Reno. It is frustrating and even dangerous. Dealing with finding functioning and available chargers along the 80 corridor can add 1.5 hours on to our trip to Tahoe. It's frustrating and nerve-wracking to not know if you can find a place to charge when you're on the road. (Tesla invested heavily (and smartly) in developing its infrastructure and long range batteries so they are way better suited for distance driving). We have ditched our ICE so we'll see how that goes.
Latest input from EA is that amperage supplied to their stations is shared between the chargers. I could not help but notice other cars where charging along with yours. I wonder what would happen if you were the only car charging?
Driving a BEV--even driving fast in a BEV--won't necessarily bring the battery temp up far enough to charge at the car's optimal speed, even at 15% SOC. Preconditioning the battery is often required to get optimal charging speed at a DC fast charger. At least, this is my understanding. But I may have missed something here.
I can’t say for sure whether the battery’s temp was sub-optimal, as the ID4 doesn’t show battery temp- wish it did! Also wish it had pre-conditioning. I did yo-yo drive it quite hard for ~20 miles up to this particular test, and it was a warm (65F) day, but I agree that the battery could’ve still been a bit cool. However, I’m of the opinion that temperature didn’t play a big enough role at the EVgo to be limited to about half of the optimal kw speed.
@@goneelectric Kyle Conner has shown that yo-yo driving does warm up the battery. Branden Flasch has shown that normal driving doesn't. As you say, without vehicle-based stats on battery temp, it's hard to know whether the fault is more with the charge dispenser or more with the vehicle. VW probably could show the battery temp, if it wanted to. Unclear why it doesn't. And it seems odd to me that VW does not enable preconditioning.
@@williamelkington5430Agreed. With so many factors in play for the cars- ambient temp, battery temp, voltage, chemistry + all of the mechanical, electrical and chemical factors in the dispenser and chargers- much of what we know in these early days of EV adoption will come from producing our own data. Perfectly controlled experimentation will be hard to come by! I must say that I’ve been disappointed with VW’s inability to include pre-conditioning, or battery temperature. I’m just lucky I don’t live in a cold area!
@@goneelectric Yes! Same here. I’m in Florida and expect my vehicle will perform pretty well in the warm weather here. Cold weather seems to be a real downer for BEVs.
Isn’t amps based upon the amount of amps available to the entire “station”. So if there is 2000 amps available and all the dispensers are being used, the amount of amps each car gets is less than expected. Isn’t that correct? Now if there were no other cars and you were not getting the full amperage would indicate a problem with the dispenser. Do you know how many amps the “station” has available?
Is the 28k chargepoint power shared with the other id4?
Good question- I don’t think those two particular units are shared, as I’ve gotten better power from each of them in the past, even while both are occupied.
Are you going to do a video about those Tesla superchargers when they open to other EVs?
I absolutely will!
I still wonder if the pack is warm enough? Driving it doesn't necessarily properly condition it for charging. The car could actually try and cool it some if needed. I am not sure if the ID4 has the OBD port where you can connect the ELM reader for temps on the pack? The best would actually tell the car you are going to the charger to have it get it ready, and then run the tests. Otherwise it does show the state of CCS charging and hopefully will get fixed soon. They need to make sure that the infrastructure is ready for the influx of cars. They seem pretty far from it right now. 👍🤠
That could all be true- hard to know for sure if it was warm enough without an OBDII scanner- the ID4 does have an OBD port, and funny enough, I just got an OBDII scanner, so lots of experimentation to come! I agree that battery pre-conditioning is the way to go. Wish ID4 had it.
@@goneelectric I didn't realize that the ID4 doesn't have preconditioning. I guess I just assumed that putting the charger as the destination it would start to precondition as it starts to get closer. That would have to really suck if you were way up north with no garage etc to put it in at night and have to charge in the morning after its cold soaked.
It's hard to believe that VW neglected pre-conditioning with the first 2 iterations (2021 & 2022) of the ID4; but it's amazing that they still left it off on the 2023s as well! Agreed- folks in cold-weather locations, who don't have home charging or a garage, will find ownership very difficult for large portions of the year.
@@goneelectric Thanks for the info. That is too bad. Ugh. You would think as cold as it gets in the EU. Hopefully they could add a software fix for that at some time.
Driving does not warm the battery. Regen can can warm it up but gonna take longer than 15 mins. The grid connection could be a issue. Losts of work to do all around.
Agreed. I yo-yo'd the car quite a bit for 20 miles leading up to the charger, but still no way of knowing for certain without an OBD II scanner, which I now I have! So, we'll have a better answer in upcoming vids. Grid is absolutely in question as well.
I thought depending on your EV model is how much KW is pulled ,, in other words the car tells the charger how much power to give you not the charger ..
Hell yea you also shop at the Long Beach wellness center ?
No, the EVgo I tested just happened to be right there. Nice to have local presence in the comments though! Thanks for the watch!
Hope my Tesla never gets desperate!
Good luck!
In Washington, DC there is a single EA charging location! The next closest four EA locations are at the minimum a 20 minute drive if you in the part of the city closest to that EA location. The paucity of EA locations is surprising for an area where there are plenty of Teslas and expensive ICE cars on the road. Yes, if you can charge at home this is much less of a concern but a lot of people can't charge at home; and If you live in California, for example, the EA network seems vastly more robust. From what I see, Tesla is the most reliable network and the fastest. Speed of charge seems to be not given the importance it deserves when people discuss the number of charging options. Again, if you can charge at home then using a level 2 charger when you're out and about is less of a concern b/c you're not as time sensitive. In fairness, I wouldn't and don't expect the electric charging network to be as robust as the gasoline b/c one has been around much, much longer.
100 style points today!
Hey thanks!
Evan,
Great video on how bad ccs chargers are compared to the Tesla supercharger network. Feel bad for you guys with ccs dependent cars, especially when the ID4 doesn't allow you to preheat your batteries when you put a supercharger in your map destination. Hope it all works out for ccs owners. It's nice to be able to go to a tesla supercharger and feel certain that it was going to work properly.
I heard that the 2023 ID4's can charge to 190+ kw/hr.
Keep up the great work 👍
Thank you! It can absolutely be frustrating to depend on CCS public charging. I’m hoping that the Tesla supercharger network can offer a nice alternative to what we’ve currently got, once they open here- just may take some time to get there! In the meantime, keep enjoying your Tesla and some great charging, and thanks for watching!
I suspect those charger cannot do their rated capacities because the grid connection is underrated. I bet if you were the only one charging, you might see the max rate. Probably EVgo cheaped out on the grid connection.
That wouldn't shock me at all (no pun intended).
Ev go is faster and more available stations then electrify America. I’d do ChargePoint if I have 8 hrs not to drive like being at work
Pointer: With an OBDII reader you can actually see your battery temperatures instead of guessing that "it should be warm enough."
And don't criticize, some idiot worked hard to destroy that screen.
Excellent tip! Just ordered an OBDII dongle. Can’t wait for the data. And yes, good point; hard work is hard work.
All these chargers are too slow
All the right reasons to get a Tesla.
It is a strong reason right now until public charging infrastructure improves.
I don't understand why you are using a 350Kw station when your ID4 can't even max out a 150Kw?
Could it be your VW sucks?😂😂