A big shoutout to @lupinFiasco for teaching me FAB. he was never a part of my community but he still took part in my own particular growth adding yet another player to F&B
I am actually surprised that people have actual issues with the Living Legends system. It is probably one of the strongest reasons to start playing FAB since you have an easy way to see how long a hero has before they enter the Living Legends status. As a side note, while the game is primarily competitively focused the community is just amazing irl. Even if it is a competitive game the people of the FAB community really try their hardest to keep people returning to the game and I have had literally zero freak outs about the game.
"Your deck gets banned" is a scary idea for anyone who doesn't know the context. Ironically, this is probably because WotC WILL ban your deck out of nowhere. I've known people whose interest in the game died for a while after Dromai got banned, but that's a lot better than what WotC will do.
Unfortunately most people make up their mind and use anything as an excuse to explain "why". Once the reason is exposed as false they will find a new one.
You aren't wrong... The amount of skepticism about FaB from Magic players is bizarre, and I don't remember seeing anything like it while I was part of that community. Maybe there just hasn't been such a tempting competitor in the space.
I am trying it. I bought Boltyn and Kayo and they are fun at the Kitchen Table. Hopefully, I can go down to my LGS for a Rosetta Draft. I haven't left magic yet but I am getting there.
That's awesome! I'm really glad to hear that. I'm not suggesting leaving Magic, though that is what I did. They're different enough games that playing both would be satisfying, especially if you like Commander. FaB has a Commander variant (Ultimate Pit Fight) but it isn't as fleshed out or developed.
Great video. You should have focused on prices of sealed product a little more. FaB is one of the cheapest games to buy sealed product for. You can buy cases of the most recent sets for around the price of one collector box of MTG.
Most of these myths are the main reasons people here are hesitant to try out FaB in my country. Thanks for doing a great job at explaining the situation, I'll post this in my LGS chat groups so that people can see and (hopefully) jump over the fence
Let me know how it's received! Some of these "myths" boil down to "cards are expensive," which isn't something I can disprove. Dropping $90 USD on some cardboard is a big ask.
Excited to have this in my back pocket as I pitch to friends. Would clarify that the Legendary pull rate is not at all similar to the Mythic pull. Not a major hang-up, but hearing that as a non-player, I might think that Legendary cards are very accessible, but even though my store carries FaB and has a reasonable case, I mostly need to go online for these.
I'm glad you liked it! I should have clarified in the video that Legendary is equivalent to Mythic in that it's the highest rarity, not that the pull rates are equal. That's a good point. I'll at least say that comparing Ls to Mythics is a case of quality over quantity. For every Silver Palms there are at least five Tree of Perdition (which is apparently expensive now?).
I get your point about Armories and prices and you're right, but once you're past the Armory level the cost to buy into the competitive play and hope to do good is way too astronomical compared to other TCGs of comparable age IMO and I've slowly started selling off my FAB collection because of this. Players shouldn't need to invest $1000+ USD in a 5 years old game to compete past the weekly level and right now FAB is breaking the bank while LSS ignores the problem, to the point where even HP2 is nowhere to be seen anymore with no news from LSS about it. They promised to use the expansion slot for meaningful reprints and a year later we have nothing to show for it except for Tunic. It's an unrealistic scenario to ask new players who might be interested in competitive play beyond their weeklies to spend as much as a Modern deck on FAB when you can just go play Modern, or play the slew of other TCGs with decks a third of the price of either Modern or FAB.
That's a fair argument to make! My proofreader talked me down from "busting" the idea that FaB is too expensive because yes, there are better things to spend money on than cardboard, especially when there's cheaper cardboard in other games. I will say that "just go play Modern" assumes that someone has already bought into Magic, where playing FaB is a lot more sustainable when someone has already bought into it. My $1200 Aurora deck cost me $230 to build because I already own the expensive pieces and only need the new cards. If I wanted to pivot into playing Florian, it would cost me
@@Lupinefiasco thanks for taking the time to reply! My point is mostly as someone who does not own these very big staples. I play Maxx and until recently cheerios Riptide, so I'd never invested in the staples. But I feel like I might as well invest elsewhere instead of spending almost 600 CAD just on Commands and Conquer and Weakest Links if I want to swap decks for a PQ or BH if my decks are unfavoured in the meta. Is it a bit defeatist? Sure. I won't disagree. But personally I felt my money was best spent elsewhere in the end. I kept my Maxx deck because mechanologist pretty much dodges this issue due to its nature, but Maxx and Teklo are weak ATM, leaving only DIO as a viable hero in the class. I'm still not sure what I'll do and if I'll end up quitting entirely. I hope not and I hope LSS course corrects on this because I do truly enjoy FAB.
@@meggs4breakfast70 I don't think that's defeatist at all! I came from Magic and was already indoctrinated into paying way too much for trading cards, but I won't hold it against anyone who wants to spend their money on something more useful. You could buy four AAA video games for the price of a play set of CNC, which is a big indictment of FaB. It's easier to stay up to date if you already made the investment, but making the investment is challenging and untenable depending on your financial situation.
Thanks! It was a challenge to break out of my comfort zone and talk overall FaB, especially about aspects of the game for which I wasn't a part of (e.g. prices pre-Monarch).
The issue for me with cheaper/budget decks is that none of the cheaper equipment do anything remotely the same as the more expensive versions At least with other 2 Mana Lands, compared to Shocklands, even if they can't can Fetch'd, at least they still tap for 2 different mana and that there are worse Lands but can still be Fetchd if need be In FAB, your budget replacement for Tunic is Spring Blossom or any of the time one Resource generating equipment, and those are absolutely bad or trap you into a bad gameplay style. That being said, I do like that we are getting more Class specific equipments to replace Tunic but at the same time, it's LSS is taking their sweet time to print them. We are currently in our 5th year of FAB, there should be at least 1 Tunic counterpart for every Class by now.
Tunic is not the best example for bad equipment value, I've never even sided it into my aggro decks because the 2 resource commons are 100% better, and furnace is relatively cheap and better as a side board option. If you're not competing at the highest level, the budget armor pieces work just fine for what they're supposed to do.
@@Deingel12 I think there are more budget options than Tunic for most classes that over the course of a game produce similar value. Example, Courage of Bladehold can block and produce basically 2 pitch for any dual strike warrior build (call it 3 value?). Takes Tunic 9 turns to produce similar and Courage is way less.
@@chaddlepaddle Can't really say that when almost every optimized deck runs Tunic or a card better than Tunic in their class. It's good that Warriors/Brutes/Mechs have a Tunic or better, but what about Ninjas? What if I want to play Ranger? Do I just grit my teeth and play suboptimaly with bad equips or be forced to play a Hero I wasn't interested in the first place because it's more in line with my budget
@@Deingel12 I mean, you don't have to play a fully optimized hero at a local event. I am not an amazing player, but I peel wins off folks wearing snappies and helm of dominion in a jank kassai deck. My entire equipment suite costs less than Tunic. I am going to play snappies with Aurora until I can get Lightning Greaves or Spellbound Creepers, but not having peak equipment does not impede you from playing. My LGS has many extremely high-end players and I feel a lot of pressure to scale up, but ultimately my budget is my budget and maybe I won't be fully optimized. However, Trench for Ranger can produce a ton of value and costs like 1/10 what tunic does?
@Deingel12 ninja? Cross Strap and Kasaya are awesome and cheap. Ranger? Riptide uses Trench of Sunken Treasure and it's perfect for him, very cheap card. Hotel? Trivago.
The only myth in this video is claiming that only the generic equipment is expensive and that after acquiring it, everything else is cheap. I fell for this lie, and now I have to spend a lot of money on cards with a very low pool rate that are extremely expensive. Fab is not a game where you can afford to play more than one class-unless, of course, you're rich and can afford them all.
That's totally fair. The upkeep past your initial buy-in is less than the initial buy-in, but that doesn't mean it's affordable. I'd love to see reprints of expensive Ms; I'll happily take a loss on my play set of CNC if it means more people could afford to play. I accept that Magic desensitized me to paying outrageous prices for cardboard. My point in discussing price wasn't that the game is cheap, but that it's comparable to Magic (which now also has an upkeep cost in eternal formats).
I disagree that CC should be compared with modern in order to justify price. CC is a rotating format at its core, and saying "living legends aside" doesn't make it not rotating. My biggest issue with flesh and blood pricing as a player is that LSS has not shown a willingness to reprint expensive core class cards in english. The most expensive class cards in the game come from sets that sucked from a draft perspective and people just decided not to open product. FAB not using a true rotation means that these expensive cards stay in the format forever, and even decks that suck like uzuri are stuck paying out the nose for codexes.
Comparing Standard rotation to CC rotation is disingenuous at best. Porting Prism cards over to Dromai (and then back to Prism) isn't a 1:1 but is at least even a little possible, compared to a Standard player who loved Jeskai Cycling. Let's also acknowledge that Modern goes through a massive period of rotation after every Modern Horizons set. I fully agree about reprints. I would love nothing more than for LSS to start reprinting expensive class majestics like Codex. I was hoping that the Tunic reprint in EVO would signify more generic reprints in future expansion slots and am disappointed that isn't the case. CNC shouldn't be a $90 card.
In mtg expensive cards sometimes dont get reprinted for years and years or as expensive fancy stuff. Fab is too young for doing massive reprints, it needs the product flow and the player trust of their cards having value. Itll start getting "good card" reprints eventually but the time isn't now and i feel like that's correct from game design perspective.
A big shoutout to @lupinFiasco for teaching me FAB. he was never a part of my community but he still took part in my own particular growth adding yet another player to F&B
I am actually surprised that people have actual issues with the Living Legends system. It is probably one of the strongest reasons to start playing FAB since you have an easy way to see how long a hero has before they enter the Living Legends status.
As a side note, while the game is primarily competitively focused the community is just amazing irl. Even if it is a competitive game the people of the FAB community really try their hardest to keep people returning to the game and I have had literally zero freak outs about the game.
"Your deck gets banned" is a scary idea for anyone who doesn't know the context. Ironically, this is probably because WotC WILL ban your deck out of nowhere. I've known people whose interest in the game died for a while after Dromai got banned, but that's a lot better than what WotC will do.
Unfortunately most people make up their mind and use anything as an excuse to explain "why". Once the reason is exposed as false they will find a new one.
You aren't wrong... The amount of skepticism about FaB from Magic players is bizarre, and I don't remember seeing anything like it while I was part of that community. Maybe there just hasn't been such a tempting competitor in the space.
In my small town we had a small group of 7 friends that played mtg now we have 4 fab players and everyone quit playing mtg
I hope that you're able to build up the FaB scene! Sounds like your MTG players have some time on their hands.
Great video man, thanks for busting all over us
Bustin makes me feel good
I am trying it. I bought Boltyn and Kayo and they are fun at the Kitchen Table. Hopefully, I can go down to my LGS for a Rosetta Draft. I haven't left magic yet but I am getting there.
That's awesome! I'm really glad to hear that. I'm not suggesting leaving Magic, though that is what I did. They're different enough games that playing both would be satisfying, especially if you like Commander. FaB has a Commander variant (Ultimate Pit Fight) but it isn't as fleshed out or developed.
Great video. You should have focused on prices of sealed product a little more. FaB is one of the cheapest games to buy sealed product for. You can buy cases of the most recent sets for around the price of one collector box of MTG.
Great point! Though, any game is cheap to buy into compared to the price of a collector box...
Awesome video man, love it!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Fantastic video Lupine! Enjoyed the format and content. Thank you for articulating the answers to these common misconceptions.
Glad it was helpful! Hopefully this reaches non-FaB players and isn't just preaching to the choir!
Most of these myths are the main reasons people here are hesitant to try out FaB in my country. Thanks for doing a great job at explaining the situation, I'll post this in my LGS chat groups so that people can see and (hopefully) jump over the fence
Let me know how it's received! Some of these "myths" boil down to "cards are expensive," which isn't something I can disprove. Dropping $90 USD on some cardboard is a big ask.
B U S T I N G
makes me feel good
Excited to have this in my back pocket as I pitch to friends. Would clarify that the Legendary pull rate is not at all similar to the Mythic pull. Not a major hang-up, but hearing that as a non-player, I might think that Legendary cards are very accessible, but even though my store carries FaB and has a reasonable case, I mostly need to go online for these.
I'm glad you liked it! I should have clarified in the video that Legendary is equivalent to Mythic in that it's the highest rarity, not that the pull rates are equal. That's a good point.
I'll at least say that comparing Ls to Mythics is a case of quality over quantity. For every Silver Palms there are at least five Tree of Perdition (which is apparently expensive now?).
@@Lupinefiasco I will have to try to sell it then and put it toward my Rosetta case ;)
18:15 Hey that’s me
Hope you changed your mind and give the game a chance to have a place in your heart =)
You win for having the most time dedicated to your tweet!
I get your point about Armories and prices and you're right, but once you're past the Armory level the cost to buy into the competitive play and hope to do good is way too astronomical compared to other TCGs of comparable age IMO and I've slowly started selling off my FAB collection because of this.
Players shouldn't need to invest $1000+ USD in a 5 years old game to compete past the weekly level and right now FAB is breaking the bank while LSS ignores the problem, to the point where even HP2 is nowhere to be seen anymore with no news from LSS about it. They promised to use the expansion slot for meaningful reprints and a year later we have nothing to show for it except for Tunic.
It's an unrealistic scenario to ask new players who might be interested in competitive play beyond their weeklies to spend as much as a Modern deck on FAB when you can just go play Modern, or play the slew of other TCGs with decks a third of the price of either Modern or FAB.
That's a fair argument to make! My proofreader talked me down from "busting" the idea that FaB is too expensive because yes, there are better things to spend money on than cardboard, especially when there's cheaper cardboard in other games.
I will say that "just go play Modern" assumes that someone has already bought into Magic, where playing FaB is a lot more sustainable when someone has already bought into it. My $1200 Aurora deck cost me $230 to build because I already own the expensive pieces and only need the new cards. If I wanted to pivot into playing Florian, it would cost me
@@Lupinefiasco thanks for taking the time to reply!
My point is mostly as someone who does not own these very big staples. I play Maxx and until recently cheerios Riptide, so I'd never invested in the staples. But I feel like I might as well invest elsewhere instead of spending almost 600 CAD just on Commands and Conquer and Weakest Links if I want to swap decks for a PQ or BH if my decks are unfavoured in the meta.
Is it a bit defeatist? Sure. I won't disagree. But personally I felt my money was best spent elsewhere in the end. I kept my Maxx deck because mechanologist pretty much dodges this issue due to its nature, but Maxx and Teklo are weak ATM, leaving only DIO as a viable hero in the class. I'm still not sure what I'll do and if I'll end up quitting entirely. I hope not and I hope LSS course corrects on this because I do truly enjoy FAB.
@@meggs4breakfast70 I don't think that's defeatist at all! I came from Magic and was already indoctrinated into paying way too much for trading cards, but I won't hold it against anyone who wants to spend their money on something more useful. You could buy four AAA video games for the price of a play set of CNC, which is a big indictment of FaB.
It's easier to stay up to date if you already made the investment, but making the investment is challenging and untenable depending on your financial situation.
Great video big dawg
Thank you! I worked hard on this one!
Fun idea for a vid!
Thanks! It was a challenge to break out of my comfort zone and talk overall FaB, especially about aspects of the game for which I wasn't a part of (e.g. prices pre-Monarch).
The issue for me with cheaper/budget decks is that none of the cheaper equipment do anything remotely the same as the more expensive versions
At least with other 2 Mana Lands, compared to Shocklands, even if they can't can Fetch'd, at least they still tap for 2 different mana and that there are worse Lands but can still be Fetchd if need be
In FAB, your budget replacement for Tunic is Spring Blossom or any of the time one Resource generating equipment, and those are absolutely bad or trap you into a bad gameplay style.
That being said, I do like that we are getting more Class specific equipments to replace Tunic but at the same time, it's LSS is taking their sweet time to print them. We are currently in our 5th year of FAB, there should be at least 1 Tunic counterpart for every Class by now.
Tunic is not the best example for bad equipment value, I've never even sided it into my aggro decks because the 2 resource commons are 100% better, and furnace is relatively cheap and better as a side board option. If you're not competing at the highest level, the budget armor pieces work just fine for what they're supposed to do.
@@Deingel12 I think there are more budget options than Tunic for most classes that over the course of a game produce similar value. Example, Courage of Bladehold can block and produce basically 2 pitch for any dual strike warrior build (call it 3 value?). Takes Tunic 9 turns to produce similar and Courage is way less.
@@chaddlepaddle Can't really say that when almost every optimized deck runs Tunic or a card better than Tunic in their class.
It's good that Warriors/Brutes/Mechs have a Tunic or better, but what about Ninjas? What if I want to play Ranger?
Do I just grit my teeth and play suboptimaly with bad equips or be forced to play a Hero I wasn't interested in the first place because it's more in line with my budget
@@Deingel12 I mean, you don't have to play a fully optimized hero at a local event.
I am not an amazing player, but I peel wins off folks wearing snappies and helm of dominion in a jank kassai deck. My entire equipment suite costs less than Tunic.
I am going to play snappies with Aurora until I can get Lightning Greaves or Spellbound Creepers, but not having peak equipment does not impede you from playing.
My LGS has many extremely high-end players and I feel a lot of pressure to scale up, but ultimately my budget is my budget and maybe I won't be fully optimized.
However, Trench for Ranger can produce a ton of value and costs like 1/10 what tunic does?
@Deingel12 ninja? Cross Strap and Kasaya are awesome and cheap. Ranger? Riptide uses Trench of Sunken Treasure and it's perfect for him, very cheap card. Hotel? Trivago.
The only myth in this video is claiming that only the generic equipment is expensive and that after acquiring it, everything else is cheap. I fell for this lie, and now I have to spend a lot of money on cards with a very low pool rate that are extremely expensive. Fab is not a game where you can afford to play more than one class-unless, of course, you're rich and can afford them all.
That's totally fair. The upkeep past your initial buy-in is less than the initial buy-in, but that doesn't mean it's affordable. I'd love to see reprints of expensive Ms; I'll happily take a loss on my play set of CNC if it means more people could afford to play.
I accept that Magic desensitized me to paying outrageous prices for cardboard. My point in discussing price wasn't that the game is cheap, but that it's comparable to Magic (which now also has an upkeep cost in eternal formats).
I disagree that CC should be compared with modern in order to justify price. CC is a rotating format at its core, and saying "living legends aside" doesn't make it not rotating. My biggest issue with flesh and blood pricing as a player is that LSS has not shown a willingness to reprint expensive core class cards in english. The most expensive class cards in the game come from sets that sucked from a draft perspective and people just decided not to open product. FAB not using a true rotation means that these expensive cards stay in the format forever, and even decks that suck like uzuri are stuck paying out the nose for codexes.
Uzuri sucks? That character that just won one ofnthe biggest tournaments in the game? Dang.
Comparing Standard rotation to CC rotation is disingenuous at best. Porting Prism cards over to Dromai (and then back to Prism) isn't a 1:1 but is at least even a little possible, compared to a Standard player who loved Jeskai Cycling. Let's also acknowledge that Modern goes through a massive period of rotation after every Modern Horizons set.
I fully agree about reprints. I would love nothing more than for LSS to start reprinting expensive class majestics like Codex. I was hoping that the Tunic reprint in EVO would signify more generic reprints in future expansion slots and am disappointed that isn't the case. CNC shouldn't be a $90 card.
FaB is a collectible trading card game after all
codex was released late 2024, is wotc reprinting chase cards one year after release? 😂😂
In mtg expensive cards sometimes dont get reprinted for years and years or as expensive fancy stuff. Fab is too young for doing massive reprints, it needs the product flow and the player trust of their cards having value. Itll start getting "good card" reprints eventually but the time isn't now and i feel like that's correct from game design perspective.
dude... you want to go to sleep
Always