Completely agree on converter quality; On paper; Audient are IMO absolutely the best value for money; Something to always be conscious of is lifecycle support; I bought an antelope orion 32 in 2014; and by 2019 when the 32+ came out; the software/firmware support on the OG 32 I am disappointed with; The control hub for it was no longer compatible with newer OS's. If you look at a company like RME; they continue issuing driver support for 10+ years on their products; EXAMPLE: Fireface 400 & 800 (Released 2008) They kept support on that including recent firmware release for apple silicon in 2021; EVEN THOUGH; they superseeded the 400& 800 with the UXC's in 2012
Do RME have just a single driver installer or separate ones for each product? Different companies prioritize different things and you have to have/devote the support/R&D budget to do it.
I used Focusrite Saffire converters for a while in my studio. When I started out I got the Liquid Saffire 56, and used that as my primary converter. It was fine, I didn't really know how to listen to converters honestly, and I didn't have the money to buy a bunch and test them out. So I used that for a number of years. One day I decided it was time to upgrade, so i grabbed a Motu 16A. And I have to say, I opened up a session and I could INSTANTLY hear a huge difference. There was so much more depth to the sound, it's kind of hard to explain. I paid like $1500 for it in 2020. It's been the heart of my studio ever since. I'm actually considering getting another one to expand my I/O a bit.
Using an Antelope Discrete 8 Synergy Core. I find it to be excellent in every way. I know some folks have had issues with Antelope, but for me (on Mac), it has performed flawlessly with incredible sound and capability. Compared to my previous interfaces (Presonus, Focusrite), the increased clarity and fidelity is quite noticeable. Slaving the others for extra preamps to the Antelopes clock greatly improves the sound of the preamps in the other units.
Yea I’ve been with AA for quite a number of years and there really was a period where their software was absolute 💩, but they have great improved the software & customer services now. My Orion32HD units are a bit older now I have to run the software a couple versions back, otherwise it wouldn’t work at all on my Apple Silicon Mac. Now it’s flawless:).
I’m a happy UAD user, and have been since the first UAD Twin. Use UAD plugins almost exclusively. For the music I write, and the session work I do, I rarely want for anything.
The clocks are something to consider, once I started clocking my Apollo to my burl bomber it was a very noticeable difference with just playback, switching between internal and burls clock is really different.
Bass drum, snare, and 2 overheads is a 4 mic set up I used to use. And got good results. Also used that set up to record drums on my old 4 track tape then transfered to digital
As someone who works in the budget home world with inexpensive interfaces......i started with an old Focusrite Saphire LE(2ch). It was probably between $100-200 at the time. It sounded fine to me and i stuck with it for many years. Then i needed something new... I stayed in the $100-200 range, and got the Behringer Uphoria UMC404. I was shocked at how quiet it was compared to the old Focusrite. Budget technology has changed a lot in 15yrs! 💁♂️
I've been using Presonus for many years, started out with M-audio, then Firebox, then Studiolive 16, then Rm32ai. Recently upgraded to SSL Big Six, omg what a difference! Fewer inputs but soundwise it's like removing the curtains.
I also have a UAD Apollo Twin, which I had upgraded by Black Lion Audio. The difference from the vanilla to the BLA mod really was quite noticeable indeed, so that’s a really good example of how just upgrading certain components within the same unit can help to improve conversion.
First things first: quality performances on quality instruments through quality mic pres, eq, and compression. After all that is taken care of, yes, conversion matters and does make a real difference in the sound quality. BUT all the other stuff I mentioned is far more important.
I started out with the presonus auudiobox 96. It was pretty good. No complaints. A little noise maybe. I moved to a studiolive because I need more inputs and I prefer actual faders. But not everyone will need that. My opinion is cheaper ones are still pretty good really
I agree with you I have a PreSonus AudioBox USB 96 and I use it for running REW when setting up sound systems for live events. It works really well for me, and when playing music, it sounds great too. I haven't done any recordings with it though.
I recently upgraded to a Lynx Hilo for use in a hybrid master chain. I agree with you that the quality differences between mid-tier and high-tier interfaces aren't as significant as they used to be. However, it's really in the minor details that can add up. The features and build quality are where there really are significant differences. For example, the Audient Evo's headphone amp is not even comparable to the Hilo. Massive differences in sound there. That said, I do have an SP8 connected to the Hilo now for extra inputs and love it :) One problem I have previously encountered with the Evo 8 is that it picks up all sorts of interferences. And the design is awful to use. But a rack-mounted Evo 16 seems like a steal.
Although you've created quite a few drum recording videos, I'd like to see one for us folks with less than ideal rooms about clever ways to incorporate room mics. Basically, how to use the space or adjacent spaces for room sound, when the room is not great, and we don't want to use IR's, or convolution.
So you want real drums recorded in a BAD room and can’t use samples and stuff because you said so?? That’s dumb. BUT just invest in sound panels. Not foam, but actual sound panels.
I see you were brought up to be polite. The room is treated, the drums are real, and your comment is unhelpful. Have a marvelous day sunshine.@@dillontaylor8035
Thanks for this one, Warren. It would be great if you could have Rich Williams of BURL Audio on to do a deep dive on this topic. In a nutshell, he designed the BURL converters (AD) with transformers just ahead of the conversion to align the low frequencies properly so they don't lag behind the higher information, which results in a lack of punch and weight. If you've ever heard a B2 Bomber ADC or Mothership, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.(my A room is outfitted with both after years of using Antelope, RME and Apollo. While they were all decent and got the job done, there's no comparison.) That said, my portable demo tracking rig is an ID44 and 2 Launcher Deluxes permanently in-line -- regardless of signal path -- and I must say, that sounds excellent as well. Cheers from Toronto!
Another great video from Warren. I love the Audient 4816 Heritage console. It has low and long faders which gives you the ability to mix on the console and control your DAW on the one console. EQ's on it is very good, with good metering.
I am using ADC from Weiss, (2) DAC 202 from Weiss, Goliath HD Gen3 from Antelope Audio, Horus from Merging Technologies, and the last one is Apogee Symphony I/O. Clocked in Trinity and 10M from Antelope Audio. It has been so many years now.
Looks amazing! I trust you and the team more than anyone else on TH-cam so much so I decided to write and produce my own stuff like a novice idiot. Thank you for all your amazing videos and I’ll learn all I can.
Right?? I literally just left a comment about the BURL gear. My A room has a 14/32io Mothership and B2 ADC, as well as a Vancouver summing mixer and there's a reason I call it my 'Green Tape Machine'. ;)
IAM still using the avid 11 rack for my interface the converters are top notch when it was released but this machine for guitar and mic needs really does everything for me great video warren best wishes Phil from Shropshire 👍
I used an old m-audio projectmix interface for years. Struggled with amp sim guitar tones pretty much all the time, and spent hundreds on new pickups, leads, and DI boxes to no avail. Nothing would sit right in a mix, and the tone had harsh high ends and bloated lows. Bought a new Scarlet last year and the difference in DI quality is night and day. They say that gear doesn't matter, but it absolutely does! All those weeks spent furiously trying to gain stage and EQ my way out of a crap source instead of writing songs was a waste.
I'm still using Avid firewire stuff because it works perfectly fine. The Behringer UMC 1820 is my recommendation for people looking for a solid interface that's a bit more future proof. 8 Midas pres and the ability to use it as a mixer. What's not to love?
Hi! I've been using the Metric Halo 2882 (@ $1250.00 8 analog 10 digital ins with upgrades @ $500.00) for decades and love it. My music partner uses Apogee Symphony. They both sound great. I like that I've had the same box all this time because MH lets you upgrade the internal circuitry. As far as drums I couldn't agree more. One thing that has helped our drum sound incredibly is giving really good isolating headphones to the drummer. Cymbals too loud? Turn up the OHs in his hp mix. Problem solved. 😉
Definitely would love to see a review on the behringer stuff. I upgraded from their basic 2 channel model to a UA Volt 276, and noticed a huge difference in the high Z input quality. Real step up in my DI sounds.
Great one, Warren! I'd love to see you explore MOTU products. I feel like they don't get the attention that others get, or see if you can visit their HQ. Agree about the drum mics. I was amazed how good one mic could sound on drums when I had a room mic in a small/medium room and soloed it.
I'm starting my mixing adventure but I'm looking especially for Rupert neve master bus converter that you can print Your mix through it. It has this SILK texture and the RED one are high frequencies, typical for old school compressors and EQ's that You cannot replicate in the box so that could be my way to hit this beauty compressed 8K area on the whole mix before it will go to the mastering.
The elephant in the room is the power supply. There's some expensive kit that has serious issues the moment the voltage wanders from either 240AC or 120DC. There's one Reverb unit that was in virtually every studio in the late 80s and 90s that had such a naff power supply arrangement it would eventually, wreck the unit and often , inside 2 years with daily usage.
Chips are ADC (Analog Digital Converter) on inputs and DAC (Digital Analog Converter) on outputs. I use MOTU 16A and 24Ai and they sound great on inputs but I run my monitors of my Apollo X6 which seems to sound better.
The pinch point in old computers was not the processor speed but the FSB (front side bus) speed, which, without getting too technical, was the link between the processor & memory. The architecture has changed to alleviate this in newer motherboards.
I’d been looking into buying an Apollo x8p, but then I discovered Cranborne Audio via one of your videos (or maybe an interview). I’d wanted to go hybrid anyway, so at this point, I think I’ll bypass DSP/emulation and grab Cranborne’s 500 Series rack/interface, fill it with Camdens and repeat with the ADAT rack. More expensive out of the gate, but cheaper than buying interfaces and THEN racks/preamps. So…come January, Cranborne’s gonna owe you a commission, haha!
Hi Warren. Long time no see. I’m on the Orion 32 gen4. It sounds amazing. As good as it gets pretty much. But now it has DC coupled ins and outs. So for my synths it works great.
I use Lynx Aurora N. Used Prism Sound ADA 8xr in old studio. used Digidesighn - they're all great. Prism sounds the best. And yes - the price matters. Lots of different components and you have to have precisely balanced components to match everything so there is no dithering and noise. And yes you need external Clock for more than 1 digital device in your studio. Physics of AD and DA converters is very very complicated yet simple.
I have a Scarlett 2i4 2nd gen, and an Aston Stealth. I got the Stealth because it sounded very wizzy having its own preamp and internal vibration damper. Still trying to get things right with it, it's such a heavy mic I've had to put it on a short bulky stand, it's really difficult to position. I DI my guitar straight in, never had an issue with it. I have more problems with Windows, TBH!
I use a Millennia Media TD1 / HV3 preamp which goes into the focusrite scarlett 2x2. The Sound is very clear. I guess if I went with an upgraded converter it might be a little better but I don't know. The vocals sound very clear when I use a KSM32 condenser. I don't want to spend unnessary money for little gain.
Well said Warren! Silicon (chips) today is highly capable. Today 24 bit converters are inexpensive. 32 bits are still expensive. In the early 80’s, a 16 bit arc was several hundred dollars. Technology enhancements are incredible.
Can you make tutorial video/cover song recording using that beautiful Audient console and please include that master buss processor because I see that yours is Heritage edition.
For my modified Behringer DEQ2496 (which isn't anymore the original) changing converters was great. But it is a totally other DSP, only the display, LEDs and the 1U case are original. It was worth the investment, and is still in use. I did the same with a Behringer DSP9024 multiband processor. Pure sound and no noise. It's just finding the right schematics and built your own PCBs. If you're capable of doing that. Btw, I felt the price point very much, because these were "old" and the AD/DA chips were the most expensive components.
here’s an idea, get the speakers and processing used in iPhones and turn it into a studio monitor for checking mixes. I think iPhones are extremely revealing in the upper mid range.
My live recording rig consists of 2 Antelope Audio Orion32HD & they are absolutely incredible, as well as the master grade L&R out on them. As far as converters go, prior to the AA set-up I used to have an SSL Alphalink / Deltalink setup & as part of my recording rig I also had Alesis HD24 analog splitting out of my Audient ASP008 mic pres, so had a redundant multi-track sepárate from the Pro Tools recording. Anyway, very occasionally when the Pro Tools system fell over I would have to use the Alesis tracks & tbh I really could not tell the difference between those tracks & the SSL Alphalink tracks, so yea the difference in converters can sometimes be so minute that it doesn’t matter at higher conversion price level. But, I did find a bump in quality with the Orion32HD units:).
I upgraded to an RME dac last year and there was a large improvement with transients over the focusrite clarette and the motu interface I previously used.
I think it does (at least with lower end gear). I bought an old used Apogee Rosetta and love it. I can run a simple all tube Electro Harmonix mic pre (among other things) into it and get better results than with a neutral sounding clean interface
Burr-Brown convertors? After watching julian krause for a while I am also convinced it doesn't matter so much, depending what your doing. Great FAQ Friday, very informational. Cheers for this great video. Oh and before I forget, for micing technique, there is a great book just released last year that can help you out big time......and it's called...........Home Studio Recording: The Complete Guide
I think it's important to future proof the I/O on your interface if you are going hybrid. Make sure you have enough for what you really want to do. Not just what you can do now.
Hi Warren, I also have an RNDI. With all of the talk of input signal strength with plugins like Neural DSP, how do you set the input gain when recording guitars DI?
Every thing you said is correct I’m a singer/songwriter and I’ve had a $50 m-audio interface and a $80 dollar presonus go box both were great for midi recordings but not for audio/vocals their pre-amps were very low quality and included a high level of hiss in my recordings now I have a motu m2 $200 interface that records crystal clear audio !
How can I record a drum kit in a small room with low ceilings? Is it better to use less mics? Do I use gates on them so it only opens up with the transient? Do we hang absorbers above the kit to cut down on near reflections from ceiling? I'm going for a 60's to 70's sound like Stax records, Muscle Shoals, etc. not a modern sound.
I choose IZ Nyquist converters. Used lynx, apogee, Presonus, RME. All good and fine. But there’s something different about the IZ ones that made us invest in them.
I agree that convertors have become much better, even at the lower price poionts. One aspects needs to be mentioned: latency. When you use midi instruments, in particular electronic drumsets the latency between the previously recorded tracks that you hear played back through your headphones while recording and the newly recorded drum track needs to be imperceptually low. I would say a maximimum of 5 miliseconds. Even today there are very few audio convertors that can achieve such a low latency for midi instruments in the real world situations. I bought my Preonus Quantum 2626 for this reason alone. It's reported latency is below 2 miliseconds (depending on effects running with the playback of course). It may not be the best interface on the planet, but it does solve a problem that I've had for the previous 15 years or so! I'm sure there are other low latency interfaces (RME has a good reputation), but not as low as the Quantum as far as I know.
Can you do a review on the Presonus Quantum 2626? It would be great to see how they compare to more expensive interfaces. Thanks! Thanks for PLAP!! New member as of December
Personally, I love it. Plenty of inputs, the preamps sound amazing. The HiZ DI sound great. Near zero latency through the thunderbolt.. I also use it with studio on 6 and the ins/outs with pipeline xt are amazing.. don't be fooled by the price point it's amazing.. in my opinion.
Hi Warren, Thank you so much for these. Do you get many questions relating to latency? I think my understanding is limited and fundamentally flawed. As a novice, I thought the thunderbolt Presonus Quantum 2626 (I think you just added one for tracking drums?) combined with a spanking new Apple Studio computer would remove that issue. The 2626 is billed as "basically zero latency". I was tracking vocals yesterday and checked to see my round trip was around 64 ms. Far from zero. I'm sure it's down to settings, buffer size, etc. There are recommendations to track at low buffer size and then mix at higher. Since resolution and sound quality are the end goals, I don't care what settings and sizes are used, as long as quality is achieved the best I can. It would also be nice not to track vocals (with only a light reverb plugin on the track) and not have the sensation in my headphones that I'm standing in a very long pipe. Does your book cover this? I feel very stupid asking this question but am reminded of what I used to tell students in another arena: "Ask and be a fool for five minutes. Don't ask and remain a fool forever." (fortune cookie wisdom you can dress up and attribute to Confucius... Thanks again, Warren; you're helping so many of us out here.
To be honest I had the Behringer and the Rme and I can tell ou that the only differences btween the two is the stability of the drivers and obviously the funcionality. behringer once in a while just drop the audio and the performances at 48ooo 24 bit are unstable also with a very powerfoul PC, but still you can use it. Rme never drop a bit and funcionality are amazing even with trash laptop, a and the drivers are the best
@@Producelikeapro Hi Warren, I have been just thinking about this. I wonder... do you know what AD/DA they were using in 1999/2000, for example in NRG? I mean, I know back then they were using Pro Tools, ADDA’s along with peripherals and consoles... somehow, the depth and texture from those years are way better than today’s (in my humble opinion)... so, the only variable between back then and now is the ADDA... cheers!
@@Producelikeapro You know, I supposed that. I worked in a studio with those... Even working in the box, I always found they have a great color. Thank you for your answer. Have a nice weekend!
Warren, I hope this is not a dumb question, but if you have a direct box too close to your studio monitors could it cause feed back while using your amp thru output of the direct box to the guitar input? The feed back is coming through the studio monitors. Please advise and thank you for your informative video.
I have the PreSonus Clarett and I'm curious if the AD/DA conversion is good enough for mixing back out to analog, say an SSL bus +, and then back in the box. any thoughts anybody?
Great video man :) I agree and disagree at the same time and I'll explain.The chips may be sort of the ''same'' but aside the ''features such as mixer/routing/built in plugins'' there's also the CODING/DRIVERS that compliment the basic functionality of the device.For example RME/Apogee/Antelope are top notch for both Win/Mac users when it comes to that (if you follow the devs advice in regards of the connectivity /cabling /etc) .Bottomline the best interface is the one that delivers equally in quality of what you feed it in with ,we had massive differences when comparing M-Audio /Behringer / Audient interfaces on the cheaper side (using the same outboard pres/instruments /DIs whatever).So the key factor is to know and understand what you're buying in the first place and as you've brilliantly said ''what you actually'' need in regards of ins/outs.All the best
I have the Presonus Quantum 2626 as my main interface for tracking and the RME ADI 2/4 pro SE and Burl B2 ADC for mix/mastering, and while it's nice to have options, convertors would be the absolute last place I'd spend my money. Yes, the differences can be perceptible to the most critical listeners, but as Warren said conversion has gotten so good over the years that even the convertors in your lower/mid-tier interface will sound great. Side note: "Mastering grade" has to be the most overused and meaningless buzzword used to market interfaces/converters.
Tbh to my ears the “mastering grade” outputs on my Orion32HD units blew me away. I plugged them into some quite ordinary Yamaha speakers I had at the time & the sound that came out of them, really was great improved on a visceral level. So, yes I do agree using buzz words in marketing can be a bit of hot air, but occasionally the product can live up to its claim
@@dandanthesoundman7607 I definitely agree. That's a great interface and certainly worthy of the "mastering grade" title. I just wish that there was some type of measurable criteria in order for it to be used in marketing.
Why buy these things? Round trip latency? My RME FF802 has a roundtrip latency of 4.9 seconds @64 samples with Logic, which holds up well enough with my M1 mini. Hard to beat that, really. I remember my first digital recorder, a Roland VS880. The stereo field would sound smeared. That was 25 years ago, now.
@fartpooboxohyeah8611 OK, so the stacking doesn't add noise but the noise is added together when stacking. If you've got some noise on your - let's say - vocals but only do one track and fill the rest with virtual instruments you might not hear the noise. But if you record 30 tracks using that same setup that noise will add up and may very well be very audible.
I have the Steinberg UR-RT2 which is an very nice audio interface with ''neve'' transformers, well haha sorta, but talking about a D.I box, I put all kinds of tracks and even full mixes on my phone, and a phone is kinda weird in output, it sits between mic and line level, so using a D.I. box in the opposite way (yes you can do that) and feeding the signal in the the frontside of the audio interface, I can now get the transformer sound on each track I want.. IF I had bought his big brother I could do it more easily, I kind of regret it a bit, but now I can atleast do stuff out of the box. Cheers
Hello, yes indeed. Besides the circuitery round ADC chips its the power supply that is very important - which can be actually put in that circuitery around bucket ... As for Behringer I have a really good feeling about those pres designed with Midas engineers in Air X line mixes it is called I guess. Would be interesting to see how those relate to those in their interfaces .. Man I even like how those clip on some sources. Greets an PF 2024 to all music "junkie heads"
Just look at the word ADC (or DAC) - see that A in there? It stands for Analog. That’s where the differences will be at with converters. The D part (digital) will pretty much be the same quality nowadays, the science has that figured out.
Yes! More expensive convertors have much bigger soundstage , more punch, crisper etc. I upgraded to a high end RME and it blew my Audient out of the water.
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What convertor do you use? How long have you had it? How much was it? Please leave your Frequently asked questions below!
RME UFXII, since 2016 - rock solid, transparent, and extremely flexible due to RME TotalMix
the original lynx aurora 16, must 15 years??
RME FF802. Since 2015.
Digidesign 888/24 and hd 192 with lots of physical inputs / outputs
I am using the Dread Red box but am looking for the right 8 input interface.
Completely agree on converter quality;
On paper; Audient are IMO absolutely the best value for money;
Something to always be conscious of is lifecycle support;
I bought an antelope orion 32 in 2014; and by 2019 when the 32+ came out; the software/firmware support on the OG 32 I am disappointed with;
The control hub for it was no longer compatible with newer OS's.
If you look at a company like RME; they continue issuing driver support for 10+ years on their products;
EXAMPLE:
Fireface 400 & 800 (Released 2008) They kept support on that including recent firmware release for apple silicon in 2021;
EVEN THOUGH; they superseeded the 400& 800 with the UXC's in 2012
Do RME have just a single driver installer or separate ones for each product? Different companies prioritize different things and you have to have/devote the support/R&D budget to do it.
Cranborne 500 R8 is the BOMB!
I used Focusrite Saffire converters for a while in my studio. When I started out I got the Liquid Saffire 56, and used that as my primary converter. It was fine, I didn't really know how to listen to converters honestly, and I didn't have the money to buy a bunch and test them out. So I used that for a number of years.
One day I decided it was time to upgrade, so i grabbed a Motu 16A. And I have to say, I opened up a session and I could INSTANTLY hear a huge difference. There was so much more depth to the sound, it's kind of hard to explain. I paid like $1500 for it in 2020. It's been the heart of my studio ever since. I'm actually considering getting another one to expand my I/O a bit.
Using an Antelope Discrete 8 Synergy Core. I find it to be excellent in every way. I know some folks have had issues with Antelope, but for me (on Mac), it has performed flawlessly with incredible sound and capability. Compared to my previous interfaces (Presonus, Focusrite), the increased clarity and fidelity is quite noticeable. Slaving the others for extra preamps to the Antelopes clock greatly improves the sound of the preamps in the other units.
Exactly the same for me. Love my Discreet 8 Pro, and I've never had driver problems on Mac.
Yea I’ve been with AA for quite a number of years and there really was a period where their software was absolute 💩, but they have great improved the software & customer services now. My Orion32HD units are a bit older now I have to run the software a couple versions back, otherwise it wouldn’t work at all on my Apple Silicon Mac. Now it’s flawless:).
Ive got an SSL 2+, love the thing, banging pre amps as well, love the 4K buttons as well, gonna start recording my synth tracks through it
I’m a happy UAD user, and have been since the first UAD Twin. Use UAD plugins almost exclusively. For the music I write, and the session work I do, I rarely want for anything.
Same and I have an apogee desktop too. My apollos get used most of the time
The clocks are something to consider, once I started clocking my Apollo to my burl bomber it was a very noticeable difference with just playback, switching between internal and burls clock is really different.
Same. I put an Antelope Isochrone into my setup, and it made a perceivable difference right away.
Ive had apogee, UA, Lynx, and currently on the neumann mt48. Im loving the sound quality out of the mt48. Apogee would be my next choice.
Marvellous! Thanks ever so much for sharing!
Most enjoyable listening to your great knowledge again!
Thanks ever so much
Driver support, headroom, UI, and latency are now my benchmarks.
Thanks for sharing!
Bass drum, snare, and 2 overheads is a 4 mic set up I used to use. And got good results. Also used that set up to record drums on my old 4 track tape then transfered to digital
Thanks ever so much for sharing!
As someone who works in the budget home world with inexpensive interfaces......i started with an old Focusrite Saphire LE(2ch). It was probably between $100-200 at the time. It sounded fine to me and i stuck with it for many years. Then i needed something new... I stayed in the $100-200 range, and got the Behringer Uphoria UMC404. I was shocked at how quiet it was compared to the old Focusrite. Budget technology has changed a lot in 15yrs! 💁♂️
I've been using Presonus for many years, started out with M-audio, then Firebox, then Studiolive 16, then Rm32ai. Recently upgraded to SSL Big Six, omg what a difference! Fewer inputs but soundwise it's like removing the curtains.
I also have a UAD Apollo Twin, which I had upgraded by Black Lion Audio. The difference from the vanilla to the BLA mod really was quite noticeable indeed, so that’s a really good example of how just upgrading certain components within the same unit can help to improve conversion.
+1 on the Neve RNDI. I use one for the DI for my piezo pickup in a nylon string guitar and it is a noticeable improvement.
First things first: quality performances on quality instruments through quality mic pres, eq, and compression. After all that is taken care of, yes, conversion matters and does make a real difference in the sound quality. BUT all the other stuff I mentioned is far more important.
Some “wisdom” there indeed 👊
I love my Steinburg UR-RT4, about $600. Great FAQ Friday video as usual! You Rock Sir!
Thanks ever so much!
I started out with the presonus auudiobox 96. It was pretty good. No complaints. A little noise maybe. I moved to a studiolive because I need more inputs and I prefer actual faders. But not everyone will need that. My opinion is cheaper ones are still pretty good really
I agree with you I have a PreSonus AudioBox USB 96 and I use it for running REW when setting up sound systems for live events. It works really well for me, and when playing music, it sounds great too. I haven't done any recordings with it though.
I recently upgraded to a Lynx Hilo for use in a hybrid master chain. I agree with you that the quality differences between mid-tier and high-tier interfaces aren't as significant as they used to be. However, it's really in the minor details that can add up.
The features and build quality are where there really are significant differences. For example, the Audient Evo's headphone amp is not even comparable to the Hilo. Massive differences in sound there.
That said, I do have an SP8 connected to the Hilo now for extra inputs and love it :)
One problem I have previously encountered with the Evo 8 is that it picks up all sorts of interferences. And the design is awful to use. But a rack-mounted Evo 16 seems like a steal.
Although you've created quite a few drum recording videos, I'd like to see one for us folks with less than ideal rooms about clever ways to incorporate room mics. Basically, how to use the space or adjacent spaces for room sound, when the room is not great, and we don't want to use IR's, or convolution.
So you want real drums recorded in a BAD room and can’t use samples and stuff because you said so?? That’s dumb. BUT just invest in sound panels. Not foam, but actual sound panels.
I see you were brought up to be polite. The room is treated, the drums are real, and your comment is unhelpful. Have a marvelous day sunshine.@@dillontaylor8035
Thanks for this one, Warren. It would be great if you could have Rich Williams of BURL Audio on to do a deep dive on this topic. In a nutshell, he designed the BURL converters (AD) with transformers just ahead of the conversion to align the low frequencies properly so they don't lag behind the higher information, which results in a lack of punch and weight. If you've ever heard a B2 Bomber ADC or Mothership, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.(my A room is outfitted with both after years of using Antelope, RME and Apollo. While they were all decent and got the job done, there's no comparison.)
That said, my portable demo tracking rig is an ID44 and 2 Launcher Deluxes permanently in-line -- regardless of signal path -- and I must say, that sounds excellent as well. Cheers from Toronto!
Another great video from Warren. I love the Audient 4816 Heritage console. It has low and long faders which gives you the ability to mix on the console and control your DAW on the one console. EQ's on it is very good, with good metering.
Thanks ever so much for sharing! I really appreciate it
I am using ADC from Weiss, (2) DAC 202 from Weiss, Goliath HD Gen3 from Antelope Audio, Horus from Merging Technologies, and the last one is Apogee Symphony I/O. Clocked in Trinity and 10M from Antelope Audio. It has been so many years now.
Looks amazing! I trust you and the team more than anyone else on TH-cam so much so I decided to write and produce my own stuff like a novice idiot. Thank you for all your amazing videos and I’ll learn all I can.
lol ok…I’ll keep my Burl B2 ADC and keep churning out amazing mixes.
Right?? I literally just left a comment about the BURL gear. My A room has a 14/32io Mothership and B2 ADC, as well as a Vancouver summing mixer and there's a reason I call it my 'Green Tape Machine'. ;)
IAM still using the avid 11 rack for my interface the converters are top notch when it was released but this machine for guitar and mic needs really does everything for me great video warren best wishes Phil from Shropshire 👍
I used an old m-audio projectmix interface for years. Struggled with amp sim guitar tones pretty much all the time, and spent hundreds on new pickups, leads, and DI boxes to no avail. Nothing would sit right in a mix, and the tone had harsh high ends and bloated lows.
Bought a new Scarlet last year and the difference in DI quality is night and day. They say that gear doesn't matter, but it absolutely does! All those weeks spent furiously trying to gain stage and EQ my way out of a crap source instead of writing songs was a waste.
I'm still using Avid firewire stuff because it works perfectly fine. The Behringer UMC 1820 is my recommendation for people looking for a solid interface that's a bit more future proof. 8 Midas pres and the ability to use it as a mixer. What's not to love?
Hi! I've been using the Metric Halo 2882 (@ $1250.00 8 analog 10 digital ins with upgrades @ $500.00) for decades and love it. My music partner uses Apogee Symphony. They both sound great. I like that I've had the same box all this time because MH lets you upgrade the internal circuitry. As far as drums I couldn't agree more. One thing that has helped our drum sound incredibly is giving really good isolating headphones to the drummer. Cymbals too loud? Turn up the OHs in his hp mix. Problem solved. 😉
Haha brilliant tip on the OH issue 😂.
Thanks for the simple drum set ups Warren
You're very welcome!
Definitely would love to see a review on the behringer stuff. I upgraded from their basic 2 channel model to a UA Volt 276, and noticed a huge difference in the high Z input quality. Real step up in my DI sounds.
Great one, Warren!
I'd love to see you explore MOTU products. I feel like they don't get the attention that others get, or see if you can visit their HQ.
Agree about the drum mics. I was amazed how good one mic could sound on drums when I had a room mic in a small/medium room and soloed it.
I also have had good results with ik multimedia arc 3 with their reference mic
Marvellous! Thanks ever so much for sharing!
I'm starting my mixing adventure but I'm looking especially for Rupert neve master bus converter that you can print Your mix through it.
It has this SILK texture and the RED one are high frequencies, typical for old school compressors and EQ's that You cannot replicate in the box so that could be my way to hit this beauty compressed 8K area on the whole mix before it will go to the mastering.
Beautiful new set up Warren!
Thanks ever so much!
Good stuff as always. Also enjoyed experiencing all the marvelousness in 4K.
Marvellous! Thanks for sharing!
The elephant in the room is the power supply. There's some expensive kit that has serious issues the moment the voltage wanders from either 240AC or 120DC. There's one Reverb unit that was in virtually every studio in the late 80s and 90s that had such a naff power supply arrangement it would eventually, wreck the unit and often , inside 2 years with daily usage.
I've got a Lynx Aurora 8 (n) DA/AD, some outboard processing in between, and then a Burl B2 Bomber ADC before I'm back in the DAW.
Would love to see a tour of the new studio!
Coming soon!
I remember switching from rme babyface to 2nd gen Apollo. The difference was vast. I had not heard stereo and detail this way before
You like Apollo over rme?
Maybe you were hearing something else but apollo is no match for RME
Great advice as always. My feedback you can get a great device for under $100.
If you just need one instruments and one mic.
Marvellous! What interface would you recommend that’s under $100?
Chips are ADC (Analog Digital Converter) on inputs and DAC (Digital Analog Converter) on outputs. I use MOTU 16A and 24Ai and they sound great on inputs but I run my monitors of my Apollo X6 which seems to sound better.
On the live side 4 mics for the drum kit for me are kick snare tom and floor no need for oh in 99,9% of situations (especially small pubs and clubs)
The pinch point in old computers was not the processor speed but the FSB (front side bus) speed, which, without getting too technical, was the link between the processor & memory. The architecture has changed to alleviate this in newer motherboards.
I’d been looking into buying an Apollo x8p, but then I discovered Cranborne Audio via one of your videos (or maybe an interview).
I’d wanted to go hybrid anyway, so at this point, I think I’ll bypass DSP/emulation and grab Cranborne’s 500 Series rack/interface, fill it with Camdens and repeat with the ADAT rack.
More expensive out of the gate, but cheaper than buying interfaces and THEN racks/preamps.
So…come January, Cranborne’s gonna owe you a commission, haha!
Hi Warren. Long time no see. I’m on the Orion 32 gen4. It sounds amazing. As good as it gets pretty much. But now it has DC coupled ins and outs. So for my synths it works great.
I use Lynx Aurora N. Used Prism Sound ADA 8xr in old studio. used Digidesighn - they're all great. Prism sounds the best. And yes - the price matters. Lots of different components and you have to have precisely balanced components to match everything so there is no dithering and noise. And yes you need external Clock for more than 1 digital device in your studio. Physics of AD and DA converters is very very complicated yet simple.
The neumann mt48 is great as well
As well as Antelope Audio… but i’ve never heard Neumann’s before, but they are pricey.
@@Circharles yes, marvellous!
@@greganikin7003 Here's our review of the MT-48 th-cam.com/video/8ChdJV1JQ5Y/w-d-xo.html
I have a Scarlett 2i4 2nd gen, and an Aston Stealth. I got the Stealth because it sounded very wizzy having its own preamp and internal vibration damper. Still trying to get things right with it, it's such a heavy mic I've had to put it on a short bulky stand, it's really difficult to position. I DI my guitar straight in, never had an issue with it. I have more problems with Windows, TBH!
I use a Millennia Media TD1 / HV3 preamp which goes into the focusrite scarlett 2x2. The Sound is very clear. I guess if I went with an upgraded converter it might be a little better but I don't know. The vocals sound very clear when I use a KSM32 condenser. I don't want to spend unnessary money for little gain.
Well said Warren! Silicon (chips) today is highly capable. Today 24 bit converters are inexpensive. 32 bits are still expensive. In the early 80’s, a 16 bit arc was several hundred dollars. Technology enhancements are incredible.
Thanks ever so much for sharing!
Can you make tutorial video/cover song recording using that beautiful Audient console and please include that master buss processor because I see that yours is Heritage edition.
Steinberg UR28M, 6 years, around 300 eur, very satisfied :-)
Marvellous! Thanks for sharing!
For my modified Behringer DEQ2496 (which isn't anymore the original) changing converters was great. But it is a totally other DSP, only the display, LEDs and the 1U case are original. It was worth the investment, and is still in use. I did the same with a Behringer DSP9024 multiband processor. Pure sound and no noise. It's just finding the right schematics and built your own PCBs. If you're capable of doing that. Btw, I felt the price point very much, because these were "old" and the AD/DA chips were the most expensive components.
muito legal, parabens
here’s an idea, get the speakers and processing used in iPhones and turn it into a studio monitor for checking mixes. I think iPhones are extremely revealing in the upper mid range.
Thanks for sharing!
My live recording rig consists of 2 Antelope Audio Orion32HD & they are absolutely incredible, as well as the master grade L&R out on them. As far as converters go, prior to the AA set-up I used to have an SSL Alphalink / Deltalink setup & as part of my recording rig I also had Alesis HD24 analog splitting out of my Audient ASP008 mic pres, so had a redundant multi-track sepárate from the Pro Tools recording. Anyway, very occasionally when the Pro Tools system fell over I would have to use the Alesis tracks & tbh I really could not tell the difference between those tracks & the SSL Alphalink tracks, so yea the difference in converters can sometimes be so minute that it doesn’t matter at higher conversion price level. But, I did find a bump in quality with the Orion32HD units:).
Are you going to do a review on the build and setup up and equipment of your new studio?
Absolutely! Thanks ever so much
Please review the audient 4816 console
I upgraded to an RME dac last year and there was a large improvement with transients over the focusrite clarette and the motu interface I previously used.
I think it does (at least with lower end gear). I bought an old used Apogee Rosetta and love it. I can run a simple all tube Electro Harmonix mic pre (among other things) into it and get better results than with a neutral sounding clean interface
@fartpooboxohyeah8611 They sound different. Make Mine Music has an episode comparing a number of them.
Burr-Brown convertors? After watching julian krause for a while I am also convinced it doesn't matter so much, depending what your doing. Great FAQ Friday, very informational. Cheers for this great video. Oh and before I forget, for micing technique, there is a great book just released last year that can help you out big time......and it's called...........Home Studio Recording: The Complete Guide
Peace. Still running Apogee Rosettas 24x24
Well spoken, thanks ❤
Iz Radar Covertors Dante to NTP Core 256,Avid Carbon and AVID MBOX STUDIO, They all sound great
I think it's important to future proof the I/O on your interface if you are going hybrid. Make sure you have enough for what you really want to do. Not just what you can do now.
The new Spitfire is a beautiful place like the old one. Congrats!
Thanks ever so much!
Hey , he knows to say Behringer! 😍
I have alot of Deutsch Partners!
Hi Warren,
I also have an RNDI. With all of the talk of input signal strength with plugins like Neural DSP, how do you set the input gain when recording guitars DI?
My 20 years old mytek still sounds the best to me. 😊 I’ve just remembered that in 2000s there was an amazing Avalon DI. I don’t remember model
Every thing you said is correct I’m a singer/songwriter and I’ve had a $50 m-audio interface and a $80 dollar presonus go box both were great for midi recordings but not for audio/vocals their pre-amps were very low quality and included a high level of hiss in my recordings now I have a motu m2 $200 interface that records crystal clear audio !
How can I record a drum kit in a small room with low ceilings? Is it better to use less mics? Do I use gates on them so it only opens up with the transient? Do we hang absorbers above the kit to cut down on near reflections from ceiling? I'm going for a 60's to 70's sound like Stax records, Muscle Shoals, etc. not a modern sound.
I choose IZ Nyquist converters. Used lynx, apogee, Presonus, RME. All good and fine. But there’s something different about the IZ ones that made us invest in them.
I agree that convertors have become much better, even at the lower price poionts. One aspects needs to be mentioned: latency. When you use midi instruments, in particular electronic drumsets the latency between the previously recorded tracks that you hear played back through your headphones while recording and the newly recorded drum track needs to be imperceptually low. I would say a maximimum of 5 miliseconds. Even today there are very few audio convertors that can achieve such a low latency for midi instruments in the real world situations. I bought my Preonus Quantum 2626 for this reason alone. It's reported latency is below 2 miliseconds (depending on effects running with the playback of course). It may not be the best interface on the planet, but it does solve a problem that I've had for the previous 15 years or so! I'm sure there are other low latency interfaces (RME has a good reputation), but not as low as the Quantum as far as I know.
I believe that high quality preamps make a difference and then expensive converters will give you the final 10%, but I could be wrong✌️❤️
Can you do a review on the Presonus Quantum 2626?
It would be great to see how they compare to more expensive interfaces.
Thanks!
Thanks for PLAP!!
New member as of December
Personally, I love it.
Plenty of inputs, the preamps sound amazing. The HiZ DI sound great. Near zero latency through the thunderbolt.. I also use it with studio on 6 and the ins/outs with pipeline xt are amazing.. don't be fooled by the price point it's amazing.. in my opinion.
Hi Warren,
Thank you so much for these. Do you get many questions relating to latency? I think my understanding is limited and fundamentally flawed. As a novice, I thought the thunderbolt Presonus Quantum 2626 (I think you just added one for tracking drums?) combined with a spanking new Apple Studio computer would remove that issue. The 2626 is billed as "basically zero latency". I was tracking vocals yesterday and checked to see my round trip was around 64 ms. Far from zero. I'm sure it's down to settings, buffer size, etc. There are recommendations to track at low buffer size and then mix at higher. Since resolution and sound quality are the end goals, I don't care what settings and sizes are used, as long as quality is achieved the best I can. It would also be nice not to track vocals (with only a light reverb plugin on the track) and not have the sensation in my headphones that I'm standing in a very long pipe. Does your book cover this? I feel very stupid asking this question but am reminded of what I used to tell students in another arena: "Ask and be a fool for five minutes. Don't ask and remain a fool forever." (fortune cookie wisdom you can dress up and attribute to Confucius... Thanks again, Warren; you're helping so many of us out here.
Man i love the preamps in my mt48 totally no need for my Bae 1073preamp. Most of the time even sounds better than it.
So what about the BURL B2 - wich is class A?!
Wouldn't there be quite a difference with converters like a burl or JCF converter vs lets say Audient or Steinberg?
To be honest I had the Behringer and the Rme and I can tell ou that the only differences btween the two is the stability of the drivers and obviously the funcionality. behringer once in a while just drop the audio and the performances at 48ooo 24 bit are unstable also with a very powerfoul PC, but still you can use it. Rme never drop a bit and funcionality are amazing even with trash laptop, a and the drivers are the best
Absolutely!
Marvellous!
@@Producelikeapro Hi Warren, I have been just thinking about this. I wonder... do you know what AD/DA they were using in 1999/2000, for example in NRG? I mean, I know back then they were using Pro Tools, ADDA’s along with peripherals and consoles... somehow, the depth and texture from those years are way better than today’s (in my humble opinion)... so, the only variable between back then and now is the ADDA... cheers!
@@preciseaudioblog that would have been Digidesign 888's at that time.
@@Producelikeapro You know, I supposed that. I worked in a studio with those... Even working in the box, I always found they have a great color. Thank you for your answer. Have a nice weekend!
@@preciseaudioblog you're very welcome!
Hazelrigg Industries VLC worth a deep review
Warren, I hope this is not a dumb question, but if you have a direct box too close to your studio monitors could it cause feed back while using your amp thru output of the direct box to the guitar input? The feed back is coming through the studio monitors. Please advise and thank you for your informative video.
Yes converters sound differently. Dynamics, clocking and more. So from my point of view sound is still number one.
I have the PreSonus Clarett and I'm curious if the AD/DA conversion is good enough for mixing back out to analog, say an SSL bus +, and then back in the box. any thoughts anybody?
Great video man :) I agree and disagree at the same time and I'll explain.The chips may be sort of the ''same'' but aside the ''features such as mixer/routing/built in plugins'' there's also the CODING/DRIVERS that compliment the basic functionality of the device.For example RME/Apogee/Antelope are top notch for both Win/Mac users when it comes to that (if you follow the devs advice in regards of the connectivity /cabling /etc) .Bottomline the best interface is the one that delivers equally in quality of what you feed it in with ,we had massive differences when comparing M-Audio /Behringer / Audient interfaces on the cheaper side (using the same outboard pres/instruments /DIs whatever).So the key factor is to know and understand what you're buying in the first place and as you've brilliantly said ''what you actually'' need in regards of ins/outs.All the best
I have the Presonus Quantum 2626 as my main interface for tracking and the RME ADI 2/4 pro SE and Burl B2 ADC for mix/mastering, and while it's nice to have options, convertors would be the absolute last place I'd spend my money. Yes, the differences can be perceptible to the most critical listeners, but as Warren said conversion has gotten so good over the years that even the convertors in your lower/mid-tier interface will sound great. Side note: "Mastering grade" has to be the most overused and meaningless buzzword used to market interfaces/converters.
Tbh to my ears the “mastering grade” outputs on my Orion32HD units blew me away. I plugged them into some quite ordinary Yamaha speakers I had at the time & the sound that came out of them, really was great improved on a visceral level. So, yes I do agree using buzz words in marketing can be a bit of hot air, but occasionally the product can live up to its claim
@@dandanthesoundman7607 I definitely agree. That's a great interface and certainly worthy of the "mastering grade" title. I just wish that there was some type of measurable criteria in order for it to be used in marketing.
It dooooes ! A lot actually. Anything I did with Apogee, Lynx and Prism sounded awesome and -or very musical. Avid was always boring.
Why buy these things? Round trip latency? My RME FF802 has a roundtrip latency of 4.9 seconds @64 samples with Logic, which holds up well enough with my M1 mini. Hard to beat that, really.
I remember my first digital recorder, a Roland VS880. The stereo field would sound smeared. That was 25 years ago, now.
I believe that even the cheap ones will suffice for very long for most. If your stacking loads of tracks you may possible add audible noise.
@fartpooboxohyeah8611 OK, so the stacking doesn't add noise but the noise is added together when stacking. If you've got some noise on your - let's say - vocals but only do one track and fill the rest with virtual instruments you might not hear the noise. But if you record 30 tracks using that same setup that noise will add up and may very well be very audible.
I have the Steinberg UR-RT2 which is an very nice audio interface with ''neve'' transformers, well haha sorta, but talking about a D.I box, I put all kinds of tracks and even full mixes on my phone, and a phone is kinda weird in output, it sits between mic and line level, so using a D.I. box in the opposite way (yes you can do that) and feeding the signal in the the frontside of the audio interface, I can now get the transformer sound on each track I want.. IF I had bought his big brother I could do it more easily, I kind of regret it a bit, but now I can atleast do stuff out of the box. Cheers
Hello, yes indeed. Besides the circuitery round ADC chips its the power supply that is very important - which can be actually put in that circuitery around bucket ... As for Behringer I have a really good feeling about those pres designed with Midas engineers in Air X line mixes it is called I guess. Would be interesting to see how those relate to those in their interfaces .. Man I even like how those clip on some sources. Greets an PF 2024 to all music "junkie heads"
🙂
Thanks ever so much!
I have the behringer UMC 1820 it works for me but would love your input
I would have to try that out in order to have a proper opinion
That would be really cool, it’s entry level and would be great to understand more about the importance of the audio interface @@Producelikeapro
The studio looks great! Do you still have the SSl console, or have you moved on from that?
I sold it! I now have an Audient ASP 4816 Heritage Edition
@@Producelikeapro Awesome! You can't beat modern conveniences and the low maintenance of new gear!
@@WisdomHouseCreative Marvellous! Yes, indeed! Thanks ever so much!
Just look at the word ADC (or DAC) - see that A in there? It stands for Analog. That’s where the differences will be at with converters. The D part (digital) will pretty much be the same quality nowadays, the science has that figured out.
New Spitfire Studio Tour?
Yes Sir!
Yes! More expensive convertors have much bigger soundstage , more punch, crisper etc. I upgraded to a high end RME and it blew my Audient out of the water.
Can you send me the exact model of the Audient and the RME? Would love to do a null test! Many thanks
@@Producelikeapro Sure I had the mk 1 Audient ID 14 and now got an RME Fireface UCX II . It was nite and day difference sound wise.
I think if you blind test… nobody knows. What about playback D/A on your phone? What are those converters? What about a $20 cd player?