My Converters Suck - What Do I Do
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 เม.ย. 2023
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I agree with you, Barry. Most people who are considering purchasing upgraded converters would be better off purchasing a few hours of mixing lessons/critiques from a local pro instead.
I'm with ya Barry - civility is a must! And some spot on points. I still believe that before thinking about conversion, or processing etc, many of us (including me) would do well to get the signwriting, and performance in the bag :)
I remember years ago on Gearspace, there was an argument regarding conversion (the 192 io specifically) and people were talking about night and day differences with high end converters. A guy, using a top tier studio, made identical recording with high end converters and the 192 io and dared anyone on the website to pick the 192 io, if they could hear the "night and day" differences as they said that they could; no one tried. Since that day, I looked at converters totally different and as you said, converters should be the last thing that one looks at.
And I agree 100% with the speaking about drivers. Quiet as kept, no one that I knew was really buying RME for their conversion, as there were mid range converters far better, but no one could touch those rock solid drivers. But I will say that the drivers for the Motu PCIe-424 are bullet proof. Rock solid and still has some of the best latency out there
Lovely to see ppl so passionate in the audio field, used to have top 2ch AD/DA as ME, kept Lynx AES 16 & Tascam DVRA 1000 😂.
My biggest step up was adding outboard.
I use IZ Radar Dante Converter Chassis (2 cards) with the Focusrite Rednet PCIeR network card and this combo produces warm clear tones pretty much without latency.
I knew exactly what you meant by the clap and enjoyed hearing your views on syncing. Keep up the good work and content sir.
The new Audient evo 16 seems to be a cool option for about $550..8 clean mic pre’s with automatic gain staging..decent conversion..not too shabby for the price🤓
Well done! Thanks!
Very good You are telling the truth ------- blame the converters ............. Converters now are anywhere from quite fine to excellent. The best source of actual measurements on this are the reviews by Julian Krause. There are very few audio interfaces where the issues are audible. There has been a terrific improvement over the last fifteen years.
As always great video 👏
Good advice.
Very True advise. Thx Barry ( never knew about thats an easy way of aligning Audio the Vid ...Thx for the TIP!) it pays to stay to the END ! :)
I’ve actually noticed quite the difference upgrading from midrange focusrite Clarett to a lynx aurora n. It did elevate my music and made a huge difference. It was like lifting a blanket off of my speakers metaphorically. It let my neve portico compressor sing. I wish I would have upgraded sooner
That’s a huge increase and we’ll worth it!
That's funny, because after comparing the lynx aurora n extensively to my SPL Crimson I found that the Lynx was just different, not better. The Lynx sounded very slightly clearer, but also slightly harsher. The AKM chip in the SPL is just a tad warmer and smoother, which I actually find something more of an advantage in a digital world. I also found, quite oddly, that my mixes translate better when I do them on the SPL Crimson DAC. Still can't explain that, quite a confounding situation. But I consistently that trouble with translation with the Lynx DAC, regardless of the rest of the monitoring chain. I would just get of elements of the mixes quite wrong. After switching back the the SPL suddenly the transition between my studio and other environments became more seamless again. That was the final straw that forced me to switch back.
finally happy with rme and pulse 16, thnxxx for your advices...
Thank you for this video
I’ve got a Burl B2 round trip going in/out of an Apollo X6 with the XB clock premium black lion mod. I went H.A.M. on conversion 😂. Apple is upgrading me right out of my intel Mac though, so I’m currently demoing a new RME UFX3 against a Prism Titan. I can tell you between the Burl, Prism, and the RME there is a significant price difference in cost-per-channel. You do get what you pay for - but it’s down to critical listening level percentages. (The last 2%). In practice, the Burl wins - hands down. (B2 DAC). Wider, more relaxed, low end un-hyped but goes through the floor, 3D, all the gearspace buzz words. That’s “all” the B2 does though. It’s not an interface. It’s a $2800 unit with 2 channels of incredible sound with the best clock I’ve ever heard.
I say all that to say - NOBODY will know once Spotify takes a giant 💩 on your fidelity.
RME is amazing. Sounds incredible, but more importantly, it would take a warhead to shake it’s reliability. It also has enough ports and future proofing to connect a rotary phone to it.
Absolute on the spot
Some of the best mixes I’ve ever heard were on crappy little 4/8 track tape recorders back in the day.
If the song is good, the arrangement is good and the performance is good, you could record it through anything and it’ll still be great.
Modern converters and interfaces are plenty good enough for us all.
What do you mean, crappy? The Tascam 688 is a top notch cassette recorder that kills protools and it's fancy plugins...I can't record any music without tape, it just sounds better....
Great video. :)
Awesome thanks
In my experience through 20 something years, it’s always been the room that was the most important
Get it right at the source. Hardware may color your work a bit, but getting the sound to the best possible.
Everything in my mix and master is great.My recordings are great too. But it sounds low resolution. Like its in 720p vs the pros which sound 1080p on STREAMING. Their HD tracks sound like 4k. My 720p would sound like 420p on streaming lmao. I finally figured out why the resolution is mid. I recorded everything on a $99 pre-sonus audio interface lmao. I am ready to upgrade. And I figured this out by mixing mainstreme songs from ppl like arriana grande, bruno mars, 21 savage, and james bay.
I use a Ferrofish A32 for my outboard gear via Madi at 96K. The outboard gear is mostly dated stuff from the 80's (think SPX90 REV7 and old compressors) . When the converter specs are better then the old stuff in the outboard-rack, you are good. Totally agree, focus on drivers and recording techniques.
I use the lynx e22 PCIe card for my interface, work perfectly!
Man oh man. I am a new subscriber and I think this talk is great. ... I do acoustic player music for now and don't have much skill in arrangements with other instruments. I have a thought/question ... when one wants to improvise ... or just play and record idea ... my trepidation is trying to set up to record and loose the joy of improvising. I play the instrument more than play other's songs... or now.
Apollo X4 24bit 48khz is all i need ✌🏼
I love my RME 800 & 802 👍
Conversation does make a difference , but now in days new converted are very well made .
well put. Conversion is the last physical link in the chain, especially D/A, so it's not important. Considering how good the converters are in most modern consumer audio interfaces, it's a hard sell these days. I have been looking into a Ferrofish for my rig, but only so that I can add a more outboard preamps for drums. I don't expect it to sound any different (let alone better) than my current conversion (Avid Carbon), I just expect it to expand my outboard potential.
Great content. As a hip hop producer, using an MPC, our community is having discussions on the AKAI converters and how the quality has degraded over the year. Any chance you would look into Roger Linn, MPCX SE, and what or if AKAI has cut corners or cut quality?
We could use some help, appreciate the process of thinking of your mix, before you record or track.
I use OBS to record both audio and video at the same time. It saves me so much time. Not sure if that’s something you have tried. Anyways, thank you for the talk.
Latency, that is always an issue. Still it's good to remember as the sound travels about 1000ft / second. This means that moving 3feet away from speakers adds 3ms latency and vice versa. Why nobody states that?
Hey Barry - do you ever do workflow advising for a fee?
Barry, you are correct about technique. And your comments about getting a better mix are also true. But I respectfully submit that you are mistaken about the converters. How can you mix it if you can't hear it properly? You can't say that the converters are less important while professionals opt for Apogee and other high-end converters. It isn't about what the listener hears when enjoying your song. You want good converters (and monitors) to hear what you are mixing. That is the exact reason why professionals use Lynx and Apogee converters among others. And the reason they also use Adam 3 ways, Focal and Genelec's. A person should never feel bad that they don't have these kinds of pieces in the studio because the aforementioned is incredibly expensive. Get what you can afford and learn the "sound" of you gear. Such as, how much bass is too much. I would rather says that technique and gear are equally important. Technique trumps gear, but if you are blessed to get into pro-level gear, it will certainly enhance your ability to hear everything and properly mix it.
I have been consulting, troubleshooting and helping artist, musicians and pretendgineers for years in regards to their recordings. The #1 issue I find has been room acoustics. That foam, egg crate, hanging carpet on the walls is not going to work.
In my experience, I would say that probably 80% of a great mix starts with the proper arrangement of the instrumentation and elements in the song. That means voicing chords and instruments where there are vacancies in the frequency ranges where highlighted elements can reside and stand out when needed. Masking due to multiple instruments overlapping on, lets say, the same notes as the lead vocal, will make everything unclear and a muddy and jumbled mess. If there's an electric guitar, an acoustic guitar, a piano, and vocals all using the same notes it's going to be very difficult to make them all work together. That will require a lot more manipulation at mixdown and that in itself is problematic. It is often unrealistic to make that happen 100% of the time. That's when it's important to have the technical skills to first, capture the audio in a way that works with all the other elements, and second, know how to recognize where the problems are and have the technical skills to make the required adjustments at mixdown.
As for converters, I couldn't agree with you more. I had a Focusrite second generation 18i20 interface and it sounded quite good but I wanted to upgrade to better conversion. I got a RME Fireface UCX and it sounded better but I really had to concentrate to scrutinize the differences. Audibly, they were very slight. The software driver for the RME was light years better than the Focusrite but that was more about functionality than the sound.
Latency is a problem but there are usually ways to work around it. Especially when tracking. If it's there at mixdown due to the computer not having enough horsepower to handle what you're throwing at it, tracks may need to be moved around so everything lines up. There's always a way to do it. It just takes time.
I have a Focusrite 2i4 first gen and the headphone input is going bad. I was thinking about upgrading to a Fireface UCX, I am a rapper and mostly just do vocals I’ve been mixing for a while so I know what I’m doing but do you think it would be worth the upgrade in my case? Or should I go cheaper and spend the rest of my budget on some other gear like compression and preamps?
@@Cyfe-II Upgrading is always fun but if you're happy with what you have then there's no reason to spend the extra money. If you have aspirations to get some external analog hardware at some point then you will need an upgrade because the 2i2 doesn't have enough analog I/O to accomodate it. If the headphone connection is malfunctioning then you can probably buy a used 2i2 for less than what it would cost to have yours repaired.
@@thumbody1 i definitely am ready for an upgrade and ive budgeted for it, I'm just on the fence on how much of an upgrade is right for me. Im looking at either a UCX or a Clarrett paired with a distressor compressor. Any thoughts? Thanks!
@@Cyfe-II You can't go wrong with an RME. Having said that I have an RME interface as well as a Clarett OctoPre that I use as an 8 channel I/O expander for external analog hardware. The RME is superior to the Clarett with its conversion withoiut a doubt, but the Clarett is absolutely usable. I used to have a Scarlett 18i20 interface and it worked very well. As far as specs go, the RME is better but in reality you would be hard-pressed to actually hear the difference in the sound. Yes, there is one, but it is very small. Like Barry says, the RME drivers are second to none. Total Mix is daunting but extremely powerful. I am still learning to use it effectively.
I had this issue with a TASCAM interface. Out of nowhere I started having glitches and the CPU revving up and I was not able to record. Never had any issues with sound quality but there was no updates to the drivers for a long time and at some point the interface just could not work.
Have been using Focusrite for the last 10y or so without any hiccups.
Good common sense talk. Thanks Barry.
I always though this : record a commercial cd through the converters that came with any PC , the cheap ones. Listen to the resulting WAV . Any differences with the original cd ? There you go .
Yes and no. the cheap interfaces are certainly not bad!
but if you compare them to an isa pre amps you will notice a big difference! more punch in the lowend.. very clean not so poisonous in the highs and a super deep effect..
especially in drum recording they are really nice 😉
I mention if you need to upgrade for other reasons like preamps, then do that, this was about conversion only. Make sense?
Hello Barry ! Love the videos, i kinda have a question i wanna ask you if you don't mind. Im working with a PreSonus TubePre V2 with my TLM 102 and i kinda think i'm not getting the most of my microphone..i'm thinking about buying a UAD 710 Twin-Finity to better match my microphone, and in a near future, also upgrade my microphone. Can you please tell me if the UAD 710 is a good preamp for someone that records 99% vocals ? Thanks !
Oh and also.. if im working with a UAD 710, shoul i also upgrade my audio interface ? (i'm using a scarlett solo 3rd Gen)
Thank you Barry! Any thoughts on using digital mixer as interface specifically Allen & Heath SQ5, 6, or 7 series as interface. Is the conversion can be compared to a high end interface? I have been looking for this info from a pro with experience I couldn't find any good reliable source. It looks appealing for someone that wants to be able to record also use it as a daw controller in a studio.
The conversation in these things is "fine". The trick will be drivers and your techniques and room. Pretty much what @Barry Johns was saying in this video.
In my experience, those digital mixers are awesome for live work, but aren't great in a studio due to poor drivers. Drivers are often way down the priority list when companies make their digital mixers, often outsourcing driver development to third parties. They do work but there are enough issues to make recording with them borderline embarrassing. I wouldn't do it.
I'd just buy a reputable cheap interface and then spend the extra cash on your room or computer (if you don't already have a good one).
As for control surfaces, when they are integrated properly, they are a beautiful luxury. The key is their integration. A control surface that sorta, kinda works mostly, on Tuesdays (most digital mixers) isn't worth it. It'll slow everything down and you'll quickly go back to the mouse. If you do go down that path, buy the control surface designed for your DAW, most of the big ones have one.
I have an Allen and Heath QU 16. It'll stream into a Mac. I take advantage if the QUDrive function. Choose either recording stereo 48k24bit L/R Master Fader, or 16 channel multitrack 48k24bit PLUS the L/R Master Fader for a total of 18 tracks. I formatted a 512gb Samsung SSD Extreme Pro by plugging into the USB port near the headphone jack. It creates WAV files, and the 512gb ssd will go nonstop for days. The USP provides plenty of power to the Samsung. Drag and drop or import into any sound editor or DAW. As an interface into my 16" MacBook M1Pro, it seems to suffice rather well. However, all my older sessions were done in 44k. The Allen and Heath will only do 48k24bit. In order to keep my UAD plugins going, I acquired an Apollo Thunderbolt w/one SHARC processor. That'll do in a pinch if I need to work in 44k. I ditched Pro Tools about a year ago, and my workflow continues to evolve. I am working in Presonus Studio One, Harrison Mixbus32cV9, and Farlight in Davinci Resolve. But I gotta say, the convenience of pressing "record" on the QUDrive is really tempting. The features on the board are outstanding. To give you an example, I have a 57 and a Royer ribbon on my Morgan AC20 Deluxe. My pedal board outputs stereo. So the other channel goes to a Fender Pro Jr. w/a 57. I've been tweeting these three mics and the stereo spread, and it is just incredible sounding!! I have also a QSC with two ins, each w/seperate outs. One is for my Fender Jazz bass, the other for my LR Baggs equipped Martin Acoustic. That leaves eleven channels. two Vox and two stereo keys are constantly being tweaked. The remaining five will go to drums: Kick/snare/2 SM81's; and an AKG 414. The brilliant thing is that the tweaking is cumulative, cos its programmable. Just look at what's available on each rack: tons of gain/headroom, 48v phantom power, 4 band sweepable eq with adjustable Q on each band, Compression, Gate, reverbs, delays, modulation effects ... Not to mention effect sends/returns, and the fact that you can route in sound via USB. Driver issues? Nonexistent when using the QUDrive. I have recorded into both Studio One and Harrison Mixbus with no issues, but only a few tracks at a time. A quick look at the SQ5 shows many similar functions, in particular the QUDrive. Good luck! The thought of n RME Fireface UCX II USB Audio Interface has crossed my mind, but the more I think about it, Why? if I NEED to go directly into Studio One or Harrison Mixbus, the QU16 definitely works. (Only with a Mac though). And if I need to work in 44k, I can output any two tracks from the QU16 into my Apollo Thunderbolt.
What do you think of the Apollo solo?
Are WordClocks still reverent in 2023? I remember that being a “Thing” good video also Barry
I might add that in today's market it doesn't matter if you have 110 db(A) of dynamic range or 127 db(A). Your mixing skills will determine if your mix sounds professional.
But there are some interfaces that inspire people, others don't. RME is not the right brand for me, though their interface products are top notch.
I prefer Apogee interfaces for my Mac or the Neve 88M.
And a CD can provide only 96 db(A) of dynamic range. 😉
Rme Adi 2 FS r pro very nice converter and not so expensive of the price..
On a side note: I bought a Motu 16A card, and generally I'm super happy with it. But one thing about it puzzles me: It only has USB-2. By the time that interface was put on the market, USB-3 had been out for a long time already.
However, USB 2.0 is more than fast enough to pass audio.
@@aleksamrkela831 That depends on the number of channels and the sample rate. Remember you can daisy chain many of these devices and achieve a very large number of channels in total.
I currently have Intel Core i7-9700F - 32GB Memory - NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 SUPER - 1TB HDD + 480GB Solid State Drive. What should I be looking for in DIY upgrading my PC? I have good interface but I obviously know I need to up grade...
Add Thunderbolt
I know what you’re saying G-money!
Barry, the mistake that you still haven't fixed is the placement of your a77x. Adams have a bust with high frequencies, they can not be shot directly into the ears. They need (like any other monitors) to be directed behind the head.
Hi Barry, do you have some advice for books on learning how to mix?
Have a look at Template mixing and mastering by Billy Decker awesome book
@@Rusty123R will check it out, thanks!
It should be Avid's epitaph.
Barry, will you please make a vid about Atmos ? There’s a lot of buzz (good and bad) about it , of late.
I already did
@@BarryJohns - sorry . I’ll go back and look.
Bedroom warriors 😂😂😂
Music gear isn’t magical. Skills first.
But But Barry: I thought all these plugins that make things bigger, fatter, thicker, meatier, means better on anything (everything)!
Purchase a used Focusrite Clarret 8 Pre X....fantastic....After everything that Barry suggests for recording....
Appreciate your commenting, but all I ask is watch the video before doing so. I don’t make any specific recommendations in the video and you posted within 7 minutes of the video being posted and it’s a 14 minute video.
Please know I’m not trying to be difficult, just something to consider is all I’m asking.
Have worked in the industry since 1987....I was trying to be helpful....I don't appreciate your condescending tone....
@@tx3851all I asked you to do wa watch the video before commenting, nothing condescending at all. You clearly typed what you typed without watching due to the short period of time the video was out. Seems like a fair request.
The new Audient evo 16 seems to be a cool option for about $550..8 clean mic pre’s with automatic gain staging..decent conversion..not too shabby for the price🤓
The evo looks pretty cool
How are their drivers?