Machining a New Barrel Nut for a Hydraulic Cylinder - Manual Machining
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มี.ค. 2024
- Northern Wisconsin is hard on equipment. But, salt that is spread on the roads is why we can't have nice things.
This barrel had to have the nut cut to release it as it was rust jacked and locked tight. In this video I make a new one to fit the barrel to get the customer back in service.
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As a hobbiest, I really appreciate you taking the time to make these videos. I don’t have a mentor or any friends that are machinists, so these types of videos are where I get to learn. Cheers
Glad it helps.
Watching turning operations is just plain therapeutic.
That's the first time I have seen that trick to re chuck a nut for threading, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.
Me either. Never seen that useful trick before during my many years as a machinist.
Just use the same face of your scribe in case your scribe is not ground uniformly.
"Every once in a while, a blind squirrel finds a nut!"
This was great to watch Josh, thanks for taking all the time to have us along!
P.S. AnchorLube is about $45 a gallon IF you have an account with MSC (we use it liberally at the shop I work at)
I get it by the gallon and just refill the small ones.
That Monarch lathe is a BEAUTIFUL piece of machinery.
It sure is. It will be the one I keep into retirement.
That scriber trick for checking the thread progress is genius, very simple. Never seen it done before. Great work!
Glad you liked it!
Goes to show why wearing short sleeves is important, the lathe always wins when it decides to grab hold of someone's loose clothing. Another good video!
It's actually funny this happened. I haven't been hit like that in several years. I can't remember the last time it happened.
I remember that my dad's 'brand new 55 Chevy Belair had rust on it and the dealer said it was just from the transport from the factory to the dealership south of Chicago. By 1959 there was little left of the car. I really love that Monarch lathe. Nice job as always on that nut.
22:02 Man it must be so satisfying when it spins on first try!
It was, but it could have gone horribly wrong too.
It always amazes me that threads are able to be cut precisely with each pass, with the cutter beginning in exactly the right place. I can't even put the lid on a jar of peanut butter without cross-threading it.
You are the only engineer that i have ever seen on spuw tube that has the same ram cap experience as me , usually gas axe grinder teleporter and lots of swearing .
My partner shop does the teardown and repacks. But this is a super common occurrence. We even have had to cut rod ends off to repack the heads. But, that is from excessive abuse of the cylinder.
I am always mindful of errant chips and I have the scars to prove it lol 😂
For us hobby guys with 9" SB lathes, the idea of taking .200" DOC is just jaw dropping. Obviously, your lathe is way way bigger and this shouldn't be even remotely shocking, but still... That was cool.
Enjoyed the video, thanks. Rotating the bottle made me chuckle, but keeps it free.
Those shavings can be like razor blades. A touch and you’re cut.
As an offshore worker I completely understand, we use all types of lubricants and sealants to keep the saltwater out. A new piece of equipment is taken part and resembled with to ward off rust welding parts together. Teflon tape on thread as gap stop or thread sealant made for pipes on nuts and bolts, galvanized spray paint, you name it we have tried it
Never seen that trick for taking a threading job out of the chuck. Good stuff.
That's a neat trick for picking up the threads once you take the part out of the chuck, I usually do this type if threading operation backwards so I'm not cutting towards a hard stop, less anxiety that way.
That is a little difficult without a reversible spindle. These old monarchs are not designed to reverse. I really have no problem threading to a shoulder.
Great video as always. I loved the speed at which you dropped the tool down between the inside chamfer and the outside chamfer. Smooth operator!
My favorite channel, you make it look easy. As a 50 year hobby machinist, I know it's not. Love the surface finish. Anchor lube is another tip I learned from you. Thanks for your videos.
Thank you. It's definitely not easy, but I put a plan of attack together for every project and adapt to problems as I go.
when i showed a maintenance guy that alignment trick he wasn't buying it. when i did it he still thought i got lucky LOL
Some guys are just stubborn and set in their ways. "no new fangled tricks are gonna work". I just let them keep on struggling if they don't want to try new things. It's how I got to lead positions in my last real jobs.
@@TopperMachineLLC he is dead now. Don't think he is caring now.
Anchor Lube needs to sponsor your channel. You've given them lots of free promotion.
They do. Did I forget to check the sponsored box again.
This channel should be called 'practical machining for getting shit done as a business'
I love watching work getting done and got tired of the show and tell for youtube recliner machinists channels a few years ago.
Channels like this and cutting edge engineering down under are the real deal. Putting these machines under real work loads and none of the fizzle assing around(as my old man used to say)
Show the job, and get set up, and 'see how it runs'.
Use RTV on the threads to seal them from moisture and salts. Learned this working in a gold mine refinery with corrosive solutions.
Makes me appreciate getting the sliding cover with my lathe. It's weird, I've been milling for quite a few years before getting a reasonable size lathe and I thought I kind of had the sharp chips thing figured out but the lathe makes a whole other world of flying razor blades.
Nicely done josh we forget how good that monarch is because we see on your lion mostly 👍👍👍
I still use the monarch almost every day. I'll always have a special place for them.
To prevent the rust of the thread, we use grease during the assembly process. That helps a lot!
We have done that and anti seize. About 1 in 10 still come apart after the abusive service these municipalities put them through.
Well...than comes the torch...🙂
hello Josh & It''s is Randy and i i like yours video is cool & Thanks Josh & Friends Randy
It's incredible what the damage the sault does glad we don't have that problem in Australia great video.
It's the reason we can't have nice things.
Salt is a good thing for you! Job security!
Thats exactly the kind of nasty corrosion we get in the UK.
Thanks for sharing
Mainly on the coast or from rock salt on the roads
@@user-fz9yy3ki7j more the salt on roads it gets up inside workings and stays put. Sea air sticks to the paint work on top of the vehicle but washes off easily enough.
@@TalRohan Yes, but l think the comment was general. Railings in seaside locations especially piers, produce deep laminations, which are more than pitted. Car panels are so thin now, a gust of wind could dent them. Saves weight some will say, yes because you only have 60% of the car left.
Lucky? Hahaha, you knew! Beautiful work."Poetry in Motion"
Very very nice work sir. A pleasure to watch.
Thanks for showing your technique for reinserting a threaded part into the chuck.
Great result . Always a good day when the part does not have to go back into the machine . 👍
This is the first time I’ve seen your video, thank you.
You mentioned the northern climate, where are you from, I’m from Oklahoma that’s why I sound funny. Again thank you Sir
Same deal in New York. I can look at a rusted exhaust stud and tell that it isn't worth wasting time with. Saw it off and drill out.....Dave
Beautiful job Josh, and a clever method of re-indexing the thread.
Understand completely, Detroit here. Yes, I'm very fond of my "flame" wrench, & couldn't do some projects without it.
Gotta own a torch in Northern climates.
I'm a hobby machinest at best. I find it interesting to watch a real machinist produce real world parts in real world situations.
I worked in parts for Gledhill Road Machinery. If that is a plow cylinder those weighed 70 lbs, or better. The plow would have 2 of those to pitch it right or left.AL B.
I have never had to deal with the salt story, we don't get snow where I live, but never the less, for certain nearly every cylinder I have taken apart presents problems with removing the top nut. I don't know what it is, maybe humidity, maybe dirt, at least I never had to cut one or torch it off. Nice work as always.
I often wonder if it could be some kind of hammering. Like pressured spikes inside from hitting things or slipping off something. Maybe distorting the threads some. There is a lot of force in there.
True, we also have terrible operators who abuse machines, a certain contributing factor.@@TopperMachineLLC
Our climate is much the same. This was a cool project and it turned out great
Greetings from Mayville
Thanks Josh for all the tips. Especially how to reset a part for threading 👍😎👍
I'd have owned half the cars I've had if it wasn't for the effing salt. Anyway - I really enjoy seeing a piece of raw material pared away to show a mirror finish hidden beneath the scale - and the .200 depth of cut is amazing. I managed to do that recently and had the chips flying just like this video. They were melting my pants though so I backed off. Questions: 1. What material is the new nut made from? 2. What inserts are you running? Someone recently gave me some new Kennemetal ones that are amazing. I tend to use obsolete NOS ones because they are relatively inexpensive - but it's incredible the difference new design coatings and chip breaker features can make. 3. Do you ever do that upside down / reverse threading technique? I really like it for threading out of bores and saves me the drama of being nervous about disengaging the half nut too late. And finally.......that scribe alignment technique for getting the nut back in place after testing is brilliant. Cheers!
I would still be driving my first truck if it weren't for salt. The nut was 1026 DOM tubing. I run Sandvik inserts for cutting and mostly Kennemetal for threading. I would have to look at the grades, as I don't remember them. I have not tried up side down threading yet. The lion is the first lathe I have ever run with reverse. My turret lathe had reverse, but it wasn't set up for threading, just turret work. That trick with the scribe has saved me a thousand times. Even if you don't need to, I still scribe it just in case I have to put it back.
Thank you! I appreciate the answers.
I understand the forward reverse when threading but for the life of me I just can’t wrap my mind around engage the threading gear at the SAME TIME EVERY TIME
Good Job. Yes the salt eats everything. That is why I lease my vehicles. I had a 2007 truck frame wrought through with only 85,000 miles. Now i turn my vehicles in and some poor sap has to deal with the wrought. Keep up the good work.
You sure make the threading look easy!
Looks good josh
Nailed it great job!
That Dykem trick is genius. I’ll use that! Thanks!
Suggestion:
Consider start the threading from the inside shoulder towards the tailstock. This is done by inverting the threading tool (upside down) then running the spindle CCW and thread feed towards the tail stock. This way, engagement of the threading dial/threading happened at the shoulder instead of threading to the shoulder. This stops the stress of running the tool into the shoulder and speeds up the threading process. Threading tool looks like a "top notch" zero rake insert, these benefit from being set slightly above center for internal cutting and slightly below center on external cutting. The American Machinist tradition of threading tool in-feed at 29.5 or 30 degrees is not always helpful. This is done under the belief angled in-feed helps reduce the threading tools cutting stress on the leading cutting edge. What actually happens, both threading tool edges are cutting as threading is a form cutting operation. Regardless of the in-feed direction, the leading edge of the cutting tool gets the cutting stress regardless of in-feed angle. What does and can make a difference are the A60 series "lay down" inserts with highly controlled cutting geometry. Their cutting geometry takes into account the cutting forces for threading. The angle in-feed is essentially an American machinist tradition not common else here in the world..
Monarch gear head lathes do NOT run in reverse. They are not designed for it. As far as threading to a shoulder, in 25 years I have crashed one time. It doesn't bother me one bit. Yes, it gets nerve wracking at times, but it is just part of the job.
@@TopperMachineLLC
Learned something about these vintage Monarch lathes, no spindle reverse.
Thanks for that.
@@rupunzel6299 I may do a video on this later on where I open a headstock and show why. Basically it is because of the headstock clutch design. Reversing them will wreck stuff.
Your video quality is very good!!!!!!! I know that you have worked hard on different angles and fast forward. I still love how you take us step by step thru the process. I can not believe how close you get the tools to the chuck; I would surely crash. I am not a machinist but I did not know that threads could be done in multiple passes. How you get it to line up with each pass was incredible to me. To me, you are like a college professor. I can not believe that you have not been picked up on PBS; This Old Machinist. Keep up the good work. I moved to Rhinelander now; I am so glad I took the drive to meet you in person. A little blood, sweet and tears are part of the job. Thanks for the video.
Thanks Alan. I do put a lot of effort into these videos. I hope the channel keeps growing due to those efforts. PBS would be cool. I could be the Bob Ross of Machining. LOL
Love it!!!! I wish my health was good so that I could do work like yours.@@TopperMachineLLC
Been watching your videos for a while now and great inspiration to start showing some of my own ..... keep them coming, so much to learn !!
I live in Western New York on Lake Erie so I understand your pain lol. Rock Salt is a killer on equipment it eats through, and seizes everything up to the point where the only way to take something apart is by destructive means.
Great video as always Josh, thank you for uploading! 👍👍
I always learn something new. That's a nice trick to reposition a threaded nut back into the lathe chuck.
Thanks for sharing.
Regards
Alan
Glad you enjoyed it
I always learn something and have an enjoyable time doing it. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
My luck that barrell would blow a hole out the side of it the next week. LOL
Outstanding job Josh.
That material machines nice, great finish.
Looks beautiful.
Thanks for sharing the process.
Have a great weekend.
wonderful tip on realigning the part back in the chuck while threading,,,,,Thanks...PB
That is a great trick to line backup thanks 😊 Keep up the good work!
you do good work sir.i have some time in the machine shop.
learned enough to get myself in trouble.lol never understood
the threading part.enjoy your vidioes.
Good work
Have you ever considered getting a cordless ratchet? Seems like it'd make so many jobs like flipping those chuck teeth so much faster.
Hello Mr Topper.
I find Your videos most informative and enjoyable. As a hobby machinist I wonder 2 tings.
In an earlier video You had to reduce a large diameter “slug” to a significantly smaller shaft with a flange. I understand that doing the part in this manner makes the part more resistant to stress related failure. Your work process have two disadvantages in my opinion. First the time to turn the bulk of material to chips. If You trepanned the slug and part of “outer tube” it should be a quicker process.
The second disadvantage would be that the “outer tube” wold be turned into chips instead of some raw material for some oncoming project, free of charge, so to speak.
At the same time You got less chips to handle.
In this video I would like to knew why don’t You rewers the spindel rotation and turn Your cutter up side down. Must be a lot less stressful to start the thread in the tight inside corner and run the tread cutter out into free air? Away from the chuck.
Regard’s PeO
Thanks for watching my older content. As to trepanning the part,that would be far less economical. Turning the whole part down took only 15-20 minutes. Trepanning would have taken considerably longer. Plus I would have to make a trepanning tool for one job, so there would be more time. Then I would have a chunk of tube that I would have to store that eventually would likely go in the scrap bin anyway. Not just storing the material, but maintaining records of the material, ie certs. Most of my jobs require material certification. Again, all for a piece of material that may ultimately go in the scrap bin. As a professional shop, you can't just use any old material for a job. I have had jobs that I could use a chunk like that one, but the grade was wrong, or I needed a material sourced from a specific country.
As to threading in reverse, older machines such as the monarch do not have a reverse. I learned on the old stuff, and in 25 years only crashed one time into a shoulder. That was because I was just running too fast. I see the advantage to it, but I don't have the spindle reverse.
Always fascinating. Thank you!
Truly awesome work.
Thank you very much!
really nice.!
That road salt sure wrecks things. I saw a car on another channel in the US that had no rockers left. They only use road salt in the alpine areas in Australia and that's places I never go to. I hate the cold!
It has destroyed a lot of nice vehicles. It is extremely rare to find anything around this region worth restoring that ever went on a highway.
Nailed It just like the way you explain the job and then do the machining of the part you describe each procedure to a T well done Cheers OH and the other chap as far as i am concerned Josh can say MY as many times as he likes in fact i don't let things like that bother me at all in don't even here it half the time as i am more interested in what he is doing very peaty of you Cheers
My, My, My, what a nice comment! Lol. It's funny how some people fixate on the small things and refuse to see the bigger picture. Simple minds.
@@TopperMachineLLC for sure i really don't care for the naysayers but even so just by them commentating you win as its get your views up and any comment whether bad or good makes it better for you so bring it on i say more the better as you win win in the long run also if i had your shop machines and tooling and all the other bits i would be calling it MINE and MY shop MY tools good on you for a good way of showing us wont a be machinist the proper way of doing MY jobs and all the tips i have a notebook full of tips and trick i pick up from you and others just love it i love MY shop all thow i only have a lathe and a mill and all the welding cutting gear a home shop could wont and have made quite a few from what you have shown me over the years to better MYself Big shout out for your videos Cheers
I prefer using dial indicators over digital indicators as well for being able to see where I'm at in the big picture. You can watch the needle as you get near your target where the digital is flashing numbers so you end up having to respond a lot faster due to not having as much warning.
When it comes to response time, the clock dial gives you a better sense of location. For precision stopping while threading I never rely on the DRO
Great to watch, nicely explained. Good tip, I was wondering prior if you were going to remove the nut for a test fit.
Thanks!
Thank You!
Nice job and done right the first time. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.
marvelous Video Josh, best wishes....PB
I've seen what you mean about the climate. CEE in Australia works on hydraulic cylinders and they come off intact most of the time.
Different climates totally. The other thing is economic climate. My region is depressed, nothing gets fixed until it completely fails. Regular maintenance would make them come apart much better. Guarantee this cylinder was leaking for years before it was finally fixed.
Nice work Mr. Topper; Great sourcing of the raw stock.
Steady Hands that part is a work of art.
Shame it will get an outdoor salt bath.
I learned alot from this, Thanks
Best
kristy
Unfortunately, salt is a way of life up here. If only people would learn how to drive sensibly, we wouldn't need to worry about salt.
With all of the salt it would have to have a big impact on bridges also - thanks for sharing
I'm guessing the steel bridges are a no salt zone. I usually see sand on them. But I could be wrong. Most small bridges are concrete.
I just learned a new way to re-index a part after threading. Thanks.
Have you ever tried the method of cutting threads away from the headstock? I haven't and the only person I've seen use it is Joe P.
I have never done it as the Lion is the first lathe ive owned with reverse.
You don't have a 4-5" internal thread mic? Everyone has one of those.
Marking the part is so simple. And reliable. I'm throwing that into my bag of tricks.
I was wondering how you were going to check size. Hang the tube from a hoist and fuss-n-fight with it? Yuck.
I'm in the hydraulics industry and use the exact same technique when re-chucking gland nuts.
I knew it couldn't be a new concept. Nobody ever taught it to me, I figured it out on my own.
Weird as it seemed to not have a wiper seal groove cut into the gland. Great job.
This is the retaining nut that holds the head in. All of the seals are in the head, not the nut.
@@TopperMachineLLC Ahhh ok. I got you. I am so used to seeing the cylinders that the gland nuts screw into the shell and not the style you worked on. Great content as usual.
Excellent video as usual, I’m not very confident at threading.. especially internal ones! Good to see how efficient you were with the way you made that
Nicely done.
Speaking of salt -
The salt destruction in S.E. Alaska - pretty intensive.
Anyway, you do excellent work. 👍👍
Salt is why we can't have nice things.
wow
That was a nice job! I used to love doing jobs like that. Nothing too big though
I like the bigger ones yet. Not a fan of anything under 40 lbs. Lol
Have you ever threaded backwards or out instead of in? That way there is no possibility of crashing. Run the lathe backwards and thread on the backside with the tool cutting to the outside.
Monarchs do not have spindle reverse. In 25 years I've only crashed once on internal threads. Going to fast.
I really enjoy this channel im no machinist im a design engineer having a idea on how a part could be made and what information is important to the person making the part really help with design. I can make the CAD in a lot of different way have a drawing look a lot of different way. Could you do a video looking at some of the drawing you have had to work with a what makes the good or bad drawing from your point of view.
Unfortunately drawings are almost always proprietary, and they ask me not to show them. I've had some really bad ones and some really good over the years. I've actually worked with engineering people to improve their drawings.
Maybe a lift kit on the mill as well. It also looks too low for you to work comfortably.
I have no issues at the mill.
Looks like you need some riser blocks under the lathe. It seems to be low for you to use it comfortably.
I have been considering a lift, but it really isn't terrible for me. Really the controls are at a great height. The Lion just got a 2 inch lift, and what a difference that made.
Another great tip on how to re-index a part. I was wondering how you were going to do that...removing the chuck with the part still in it seemed to be a lot of work. Fortunately you had a better idea. Thanks for all the tips you give, Josh.
I watched someone remove the chuck once a long time ago and thought that was dumb. Then I came up with this.
I always preferred to cut internal shouldered threads on the far side of the Chuck from the back outwards, less chance of contact.
I have no issues with threading to a shoulder. In 25 years I've only crashed once and it was because I was running a little too fast.
Would anti seize work to seal the threads from rust? Or silicone?
One off replacement part work, why manual machine work will always have a place in industry, because nobody sensible would bother drawing it in CAD and programming a CNC just for a single relatively simple part, though im sure you could make a few of them before the CNC got ahead.
Monarch lathe is lovely, nice to see it in use over the modern Lion.
Sad thing is, shops like mine keep closing. I just visited one last week that does big stuff. There are fewer shops in my region. But it is also very economically depressed, not much work.
Wouldn't it have been better to make an undercut at the end of the threads next to the shoulder so that the end of the cylinder would provide a positive stop for the nut? As it is now it seems the threads on the cylinder will reach the end of the internal threads creating a chance to gall, especially if the customer gangster cranks that nut on. Or is the cylinder already undercut on the end?
Josh,
That surface finish turned out phenomenal. Impressive and ya didnt even need to polish it.......What was the insert you were using?
As we both know our respective DOT's dump more crap on the roads than necessary, not only salt but calcium chloride too....gets into everything not just cars n trucks.....Thanks for turning the chute on the blower.....our terrible snowstorm that was to dump up to 20 inches today, has barely spit out 1/4 inch total......so much for accurate weather forecasts.....LOL.....not complaining but if you and I were off that far in our jobs we'd be jobless......
Keep up the good work...
Don
I believe these are SEAN inserts. I could be wrong though. They are cheap and I get them from CME Tools.
I deal w CME tools alot myself....I'll ck it out....Thanks...
@@TopperMachineLLC
pretty
👍
Thank you for your great videos :)
What material was that? 1045?
1026