What's in a hydraulic cylinder? What's the simplest way to troubleshoot?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มี.ค. 2016
- I've gotten (and ignored) this question for years. How to find an internal hydraulic piston leak without disassembling the ram.
Long term projects here: / ave
AVE, I like a man who turns the perplexing into the obvious whilst throwing in lots of peripheral gems. Thanks for sharing. Joe
Thank You Ave, the obviousness of all of this is only obvious to those that have been down that road.
Thank you from all of us that never leave the house.
keep up the good work. ....
Worked for SKF making the wear guides for hydraulic cylinders. Caterpillars wear bands are 60% nylon, and 40% fiberglass fill.
+1 for Chickadee singing in the background.
+w0mbles I paused the vid twice thinking it was some one in the neighborhood. :-P
Chickety
+BikingMNViking Same thing. with my surround headset it sounded exactly like the top neighbour had kids running around hahah.
+w0mbles I thought it was a herd of elephants
+Mark Tremblay "a surround headset"
I'm sorry for your loss
"Union coffee break" made me laugh out loud.
+Graham Rich Still shorter than the road crew breaks which can last whole days.
+BikingMNViking You have to actually start doing work before you can take a break though... so road crew breaks simply don't exist.
+BikingMNViking Weeks in Texas
happiest part of the week, when AvE uploads keep up the great work
One small comment from a man, one amazing video for mankind!
Nice!
Man, the level and breadth of knowledge on this channel is mind-boggling. I know AvE doesn't talk much about his background and PhD but I'd be SO curious to know how someone gains this level of knowledge. I assume it takes years of education and years of real world experience
Hello from a fellow Canadian. Love the vids. I have to say our skilled trades need more guys like you. Guys who know what they are talking about and enjoy teaching others. Granted it's a video and not real life but if my journeymen were as patent and enjoyed teaching as much as you seem to in these videos my early career would have been much more enjoyable.
Keep up the good work.
If you think union breaks are long, try meeting a US federal employee.
thanks! loving all the hydrolic vids, we make tipper trucks at work, and these little vids are helping me lots. The one you did about the pump direction has been really useful.
thanks mate ;)
Great vid, coffee break made me laugh. On heavy equipment you usually have a junction where the hoses on a cylinder turn into a steel tube. (do not try this at home) If you can bottom out the blind end of the cylinder remove the hose from the rod end, or vise versa. Stand way back and bottom out the cylinder, if oil comes out the opposite hose at an alarming rate than the cylinder is failed. Again don't try that at home. Ave, love your channel, for better or worse I've learned a ton from you.
+AvE Omg I can't stop laughing, thanks for replying.
+AvE That's why you don't just open up the line and spray the oil everywhere, but rather run a jumper hose in a bucket....no more mess than hooking up a gauge inline.....anyway, good vids - allways more entertaining to watch than doing the stuff for living everyday!
SogySeal
Wow. That's pretty informative. You deserve a cookie.
And, FYI, the "proper" term is annular area, in case anyone was wondering. Effective implies that the area is physically greater than the benefit you are getting out of it.
Not that I have a problem with that, just posting for the sake of education. An annulus is the remaining area of a circle when a smaller circle with the same center is removed from it.
Thanks, you obviously have the baccalaureate of Millwrighting .
I enjoyed the content and trying to figure your lingo, cheers! H
Thanks AvE, lots of good information.
So I'm glad I saw this because I've always wondered how you could move them in with pressure and move them out with pressure, and now I know.
It took me 10 seconds to realise that "catfish" meant "capiche". Which is a lot shorter period of time than it took to understand the whole gland thing.
Ave must be a Simpsons fan
there is an episode (an early one) where Bart is caught shoplifting and story security explains that he is not allowed back in the store, and ends his speech with "capiche. - do you understand" Bart answers "everything except catfish" I ask my kids "catfish" all the time and they look at me strangely.
i like your videos its almost like ive worked with machines
Interesting to see how it's done. Thanks.
I love it. That was great. Please do more like this.
Most excellent, informative video! How do you put it back together without damaging the seal on the cylinder threads?
Now I know why my father left me one high pressure gauge amongst my all his old stuff: For this lesson on Hydraulics for Dummies. Thanks Again, Ave.
I did manage with no hydraulics knowledge to ave myself $100 on 2.5 TON hydraulic car jack by replacing the valve pressure release seal. The woman behind the hardware store counter looked at me almost like I must have shoplifted something as my total order was 29 cents for the one nitrile O ring.
Hours later, the car still stood exactly where I had hand pumped her up to. I never paid extra for CRAFTSMAN again. (like a naive fool back in my teens I thought that was quality).
Hey AvE thought I would mention that in my experience of bad piston seals i can normally feel heat on the outside of the cylinder where that oil is rushing past a bad piston seal. If i feel that i know its in the cylinder and not a valve or another leak.
coooool. I'm gonna have to watch this one a couple more times to catch more of what's going on here
Worked construction for a very short time... always wondered about the magic that was going on inside those hydraulic cylinders... thanks
+Ave I just used knowledge from this video to solve a problem with a pneumatic 3 way Valve on a set of Chillers.. I had been blaming the the air relay (takes 0-20 PSI signal and switches 100+ PSI between NO NC) Turns out the cylinders seals are pooched and air was coming out the "cylinder return port"
So thanks and I thought I would through you a Patreon Bone for all knowledge spreading stuff and such
Took longer to realise than I’d like to admit, that the force was applied via the vice, rather than the other way round.
love your videos.
Holy crap I never even thought about the fact that the rod end has less effective area. Mind blown.
As someone who types for a living, this was significantly educational.
Really enjoyed this video, heaps of good info for us newbies. Would have loved to see you go to a white board and make some sketches and throw in some figures from a pump so that you know what size cylinder you need, rods, pistons etc. Can you buy the pistons from a hydraulic supply along with the pipe, seals and wear rings etc. Many thanks and all the best for 2019
Good stuff brother!!
Thanks. More stuff to think about
Very well explained
Informative.....that wasn't what I expected
Ehh haven't watched yet but my stick is already on the ice
+Guy He mixes it up from video to video :)
snelpiller Its never been out of a vice sir.
Interesting project idea, or at least a possible one, it would be awesome to see you machine your own hydraulic/pneumatic cylinder, and then test it out to see how well it chooches.
I rekon you could make a pretty decent small one with the stuff you have kicking around.
Thanks for the nomenclature
great video thanks
"Old Chimera" - that was my nickname back in high school.
Thanks for putting up your vajayos. They brighten up my day and also maybe teach my brains stuff. Even if it's annoying with Los Standardes Imperiales over Les Standards Metrique.
Addendum: what is that schmoo made of? Aren't ya afraid of that contract dermaTitus?
I learned something today.
Those inches are round, not square, rookie. :-)
+David Buschhorn :D
AvE belive me if you want but because i went back and watched that stupid Blender video for some reason at 2 AM in the morning i remembered how you calculated the Wattage and that helped me on my Test belive it or not so thanks :D ( PS Test wasnt hard but i probably will fail )
i never thought about the surface area being non-symetrical on each side of a hydraulic ram, its quite a differance too.
Say I just picked up two air drills from a pawn shop and noticed the owner runs the pressure real low -- HOW to tell a good one from a bad one? Both ran at the store but when I brought them home the cheap one drove a 3 inch deck screw like butter and the spendy one could barely manage an inch long screw (it will become a dedicated wood pilot bit hole drill until I rebuild it -- any chance of doing an air rebuild vid? Loved the one on how to tune a dremel/air grinder... is it the same thing or is there finer points a pointy head like mine should know?
I got the headphones on and your little one running around sounded like someone was in my house!
Wow, I never thought about the difference in force
+ottard
You underestimate the power of the dark side
My body is ready!
Another way to check for leakage, is to place the piston in the middle position, and then pressurize the negative side of cylinder, ie the rod side. Make a mark on the pistonrod just there it meets the gland seal. Let it set for half an hour with pressure, and check if the piston has moved outwards.
If the seals are leaking then the pressure on the negative side will have equalized with the positive side, and moved the piston outwards.
I used to work for a serviceshop in denmark, where we primarily serviced hydraulic equipment from the marine industry, and those cylinders are to large to be put in a vice.
I have a pair of hydraulic cylinders on my ladder rack, their purpose is to bring the ladder down when you push up on a lever, however im having the problem that they are stiff, how do I go on maintaining them so they can close and open smooth like when they were new? TIA
I don't know much about hydraulics, so I have a question.
Could you put the gauge on the blind end and measure the pressure there? And if so would there be any reason to do that?
+AvE ahh that's good to know, it definitely helped me to start grasping the concept of hydraulics!
Cheers mate :)
Have you ever heard of a Cylinder Gland Nut unscrewing itself over time and if so what might you suggest would be a potential cause?
You don't need a gauge just remove the pressure line on one end and fire up the machine and pressurize the other end when the cylinder is fully extended. If fluid is bypassing it's gonna leak out the end with the hose removed. Easy.
Cat fish homie, running a carnival ride past summer while trying not to kill customers was very stressful. clearing things up one video at a time.
When I was a construction inspector, I saw two instances of hydraulic failure. One was on a large dump truck which the hose blew and the box came down in a hurry and oil squirted all over. The hose had to be replaced before the load could be dumped. The cylinders are pressurized on the blind end only. The second was on a large hoe excavator; the hose blew or the steel tube failed(I forget which) but it was on the blind end side and the arm just plopped to the ground until the replacement was made. There was a huge volume of oil in both cases that went to the ground and surrounding things.
+Roy Reynolds This doesn't generally happen on things that are maintained, hydraulic hoses are incredibly durable and if put together correctly, don't fail at random.
also a hot spot will be present on a working hydraulic cylinder, the high pressure will leak past the seal internally and that will create a small hot spot which is easily readable with a temp gun
So way way up North the first guys says "Heeeyy I think you blew a seal" Second guy says "Heeyyy I said no telling"
Good method - nonsurgical to boot.
How did you remove the seal? Was it elastic enough to pull it off or did you have to take it apart.
That A port plug borrowed from Sandvik cylinder? Noticed a while ago that you had one mining rig cylinder lying in background :)
Better way to test. Retract Ram Fully. Install a pressure gauge with a drain valve inline on the Ram Ram End. Pressurize Retract side with Enerpack also with gauge. You should be able to hold pressure on the RAM side without without oil bleeding to the retract side. You don't need any special jigs just the ability to retract. This method tests the Rod seal and the Ram seal at the same time. We used this method all the time offshore in the R.O.V. Industry.
That is a slippery subject there. I don't like messy stuff like that because i get the oil all over everything and it takes forever to clean it up. Thanks for the video.
do you have any use for silicone mold release? someone ordered the wrong stuff at work and i got a case of the stuff and dont really know what to do with it.
Did you refill the cylinder with schmoo before clamping it the second time? I assume you did or the pressure wouldn't have jumped quite so high. But if there was air in there... 2000psi in a mixed pneumatic/hydraulic system for a hobbyist would be pucker factor 11.
2000psi of just oil is just as bad then a combo
+Robert Szasz
He's ditched gold prospecting and moved on to manual compression of coal to form diamonds. Just need a bit of thrill in your life to get it going
apburner1 exactly. If something breaks under 2k psi in a hydraulic system you hear a bang and the pressure is gone. In a mixed or pneumatic system you're gonna get things launched through walls.
Didn't know the pressure was lower on the rod side of the piston. Thanks. It's time for pre break
hey! I've done a few cylinder rebuilds. ours takes two people to put the arm back in though :D.
How many tons?
Question from Finland: What do you use to clean up your office from all that schmoo? Used to use oodles of brake cleaner at the workplace, but home office with zero ventilation and minimal budget for chemicals is a bit different.
+Riku0990 I spill wood finish all the time and use wood dust. I hear kitty litter with clay is good for most things, though.
Noe can you show us how to check the valves please.
i heard "cafeesh" what's that
does it mean OK? 4:56
Both CWun and CTu prefer a light Rye, I myself revel in the nutty rich notes of a well proven Spelt. As a man of newly bestowed letters, I take thee as an aficionado of a robust and well developed Sour Dough? Quad erat demonstrandum. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
So alwyas been toying with the idea of making my own hydraulic cylinders.. and now i look at this and goes "well thats look easy enough".. would acetal (POM) or Teflon be good sealing plastics you think. Can always slap nitril orings on the screwy bits, but for that piston im guessing a square plastic splitring style seal would be the trick..
+Moronicsmurf I _think_ teflon is its own worse enemy in that case as it slips past it.
how do you clean that cutting mat? every video it's covered in something!
Once you get used the sounds cylinders make you
can just listen for the sound of oil hissing by the seals. Another way
is if you can reach another cylinder the same size, you can feel the
temperature difference, the hotter cylinder is leaking.
The bolt you used as a blank is a Hitachi one isnt it?
I'm surprised you didn't mention the rod wiper
In my grader all functions are work great but when I use blad up down blad slow up and down what was the problem
I got everything except the "catfish" part.
A-huh, that's right. Well, try to have a merry Christmas.
tht way we test for it is just pressurize one end and see if oil comes out the other fitting. works great for big stuff thats a pain in the ass to remove.
What kinda vice appliance is that there? Doesn't look like it has the spinny spinner base thinger on it.
Shows us how to open up a piston but not put it back in without fucking the seal right to hell on the threads. Methinks AVE just bought stock in a seal and gasket company.
+CKOD Must beUpper Canadian Tap and Seal Corp ; )
What I learned from AvE today is.....
How his rod is tight in the hole!!!
A Gland Seal?? I don't I have ever seen one of those at the local zoo/aquarium. What island do they live off of??
+John Schroeder
Gland Canaria & New Sealand
+Y Wiwar Sealand is a real place, the worlds smallest nation.
A year ago i moved to a country that wouldn't allow me to bring my tools, so i have to buy new tools here. My tools where old skill, porter cable and black n' decker shitty stuff, but i had them and they worked for me (most of the time), now i have to buy everything again, starting with a circular saw or table saw and router. Can you make a video of recomended power tools? (budget frendly)
Ugh seeing that vice, reminds me that I really need to make some soft jaws for my vice. OUT OF BRASS. Something that will work well with brazing pieces, not catch fire or scuff up the doodles and things.
stared blankly at this for 8:23.
Where did you find this cylindar?
I know I’m late to the party but you can’t always remove the blind end hose and cap the fitting if you raise your implement..
Yep, I was thinking the same. But if you have space or flexible hydraulic hose instead of steel tubing, could always install a temporary ball or needle valve to do the same trick
Question: How the hell do you clean up all the shmoo you release in your videos? The hydraulic fluid in particular looks like a nasty job to contain.
Greetings from Sooke
Remember void if seal is broken ;)
any closer to the robot bartender?
Release the Shmoo!!!
+myusualchannel He should get the one Colonel Potter had in MASH -- I keep expecting one to show up in the background.
Hmm. Surely a quicker method would be to open up the return end and put pressure on the ram whilst held tight. Leakage would immediately indicate a leaking seal. However in my experience on rams most leakage is across the counterbalance valves.
Chris, are you really just trying to tell everyone how your rod fits tight in the bore?
+Godfrey Poon
Good sir, what are you doing to our last name? Slander, I say!
Cheers, mate. :) Tight bores and beer for everyone!
+AvE how can i send you a message. I have a picture of a hydro test gone wrong that might interest you.
+AvE why don't you try taking down a Kirby vacuum? I sell them for a living and honestly they destroy every other vacuum in every way. Want to try something that might actually do what it claims for once?
Hey Ave Can you check out Mladen 365 for a potential intermission. I stumbled on a couple of his videos and this guy apparantly lives in Croatia and is making amazing things out of practically nothing. He has very few subs and I think his work deserves more attention. Check out the diesel tractor he built. Crazy. (I'm not associated with him just impressed)
when i was working on a buling site, there was one vechale that the hydraulic ramps come down in the 12 hours due to the rams had failed
+Andy Leaman
It could have been the rams seals started to weep internally. But it could have also been a problem with the valvegear, and passing fluid internally within the valve block.
This is an easy test to determine which. As he said though. This can be done on the machine/equipment, if one can load it up sufficiently.
my body is ready
haha the end