7-33 nosler 3200fps 190grn .838 BC it's going 2037 fps at 1100yards - and has 4320fpe and has 1000fpe at 1mile has a longer throat with longer barrel life than a 28 Nosler! And Fits into a detachable long action magazine !
When it comes to the greatest hunting cartridge ever made, that statement means many things to many people. With that said, the 308 doesn't have punishing recoil, is common as dirt, and has killed everything from grizzlies to the taliban.
@@edwardhoward4708 a Leatherman-type multi-tool is not the best tool for many jobs, but it can get SO MANY jobs done, it's a great thing to have at hand. I see the 308 Win as that sort of tool.
7mm mag is the cartrige that does it all, to me is the center of all calibers. 7 mm mag should be the winner . thank yo for all your videos, I really enjoy them.
Can’t beat a 308 in the woods for deer. Longer distances prefer the 270. If I was an elk hunter I would pick the 7mm. I think it mostly depends on where you live (terrain) and what you hunt.
another benefit of 308 is that it's used on other platforms like AR-10 so one batch of ammo with many uses. And you can actually get ammo right now. What's not to like?
7mm what? 30 caliber is better for elk. Every outfitter in the country will tell you that. Doesn’t mean it can’t be done with a .284 bullet, but it’s certainly not the best.
@@progradepainting3755 aaaaand you missed the point of what was said here smh. He said in the woods! If you’ve ever been in the woods you’d know there is no “down range”. Give those thumbs a break and read a little deeper before looking dumb.
I can agree with that. I'd say Elk = 300WSM, Deer=6.5PRC, NRL Hunter Match=6.5 Creed or PRC. Best all-around? 280AI, but if the 6.8 Western weren't voted out, I would have gone for it. 🙂
7mm Remington Magnum. I own many hunting rifles and my 7mm is my favorite and seems to always put the game down quickly and can shoot it 0-400 yards effectively
Very true. My dad has a model 70 30-06 that he's had since the mid 80s and we were thinking he should upgrade for hunting elk to have better long range performance but with the hand loads we've developed there's honestly no reason to upgrade. It's that close to a 7mm Rem Mag or a 300 Win Mag.
Although I don’t own one, it’s hard to argue with the overall versatility of the 7 RM. Readily available ammo and rifles, good selection of projectiles.
Jim, Thanks so much for going through this cartridge Wars series. It really has been fun to watch. I think the Finalists are excellent representations from their classes. I have a majority of these calibers and would agree they are all just great.
280ai is my favorite in your chart it sets in the middle on all categories. Recoils like a 270win hits like a 3006 and shoots flatter than both. 300wsm is second for me
Yep. And his numbers are really low for the 7mmRM as far as speed and ballistics. If you reload and use a heavy for caliber bullet and some of the newer powders, you can get a 180 grain burger over 3000 feet if not 3100 ft./s.. RL22, IMR8133, 3000 FPS NO PROBLEM.
280 Ackley. I’ve mentioned 280AI on this channel in the comments at least a half dozen times. It’s by far the most overlooked, and underrated cartridge out there. Notice in the graph that it’s not the best or worst at anything compared to the other cartridges. It’s simply good at all of them. If a hand loader, the extra powder in the 7 Rem Mag shows you just how efficient the 280 Ackley is. With a 160gr bullet, it takes the Rem Mag around 13 grains more powder to achieve nearly the same velocity as the Ackley according to Barnes load data. More powder equals, more recoil, shorter barrel life, added cost, ect ……. With the price of things today this matters. I just got 2lbs of Varget at $60 per pound. It nearly made me faint lol
@@bruce5612 primers!! Primers is what I can’t find. I’m down to 400 large rifle primers, and maybe 600 small rifle. It’s nuts. I haven’t been shooting much since last summer. I’ve been trying to conserve and ration primers. I have a couple hundred rounds loaded for each gun just in case. And haven’t done any real load development for about a year. I hate it.
@@bruce5612oh wow. I’d jump at that. $60-$70 a thousand. It’s much better than none. I had found some fairly cheap in Canada but they wouldn’t ship here unfortunately
I’d definitely go with the 7mm REM Mag.. A 24” barrel is all you need! You can go up to 175g bullets for harder hitting energy or down to 139g or less lighter bullets for faster and flatter shooting. Ammo is readily available. 308 would then be my next choice.
@@davidorpwood8433 What twist rate does your rifle have? Mine I believe is 1/10 and I've never gotten decent accuracy with 160 gr Partitions or a lot of copper 150 gr bullets.
I personally don't think shooting anything past 400 yards is that ethical, even if you can do it should you? Why not go hunting instead of shooting. Sneak up on that animal and take it under 300. That's why I say 308 it's by far the easiest to find ammo, a rifle chambered in it, most variety and ease of hand loading, and completely capable for elk. Also won't damage as much meat as say the 300 wsm if you're going for deer.
Of those choices the 7mag wins hands down for versatility for Deer to Elk in the mountains.You can buy a 7 mag or a .300winmag and never buy another rifle unless you just want to…..and we all want to
For me it's the 308. I've done everything with a 165 grain bullet. From shooting deer and hogs at distance, to shooting targets all day long. Easy to walk in the store and grab a box whenever you need it. For elk it'll 100% do the job in most hunting situations. I think if you ask "most" elk hunters how far they are shooting elk they won't say 500-600 yards.
The 308 is the cartridge for the masses. Don't just think about ammo availability, think about new and used rifles too. Way more 308 rifles at great prices both new and used. My Ruger American.308 is crazy accurate for the money. Being left handed also makes me weary of gun availability in other calibers.
@@sterlingcrroundtable8158 another valid point. It's a very easy platform to get into from the bolt gun and even semi auto standpoint. Even from building a custom gun. It's so many parts out there to build a quality bolt gun or semi auto in 308.
The barrel length on the .308 is listed as only 20 inches, should have been 22 to be fair. Also that 174 gr. bullet show the .308 kicking harder than a .270, not my experience. .308 for the win.
280AI. Hornady is not loading that cartridge to its potential. Handloaders can get it over 3100 at 168 grain ABLR. IT only gives up 150 fps to 28 Nosler. With 30% less powder
Because it has a sleek modern case design. Because it's not a belted magnum. Because it's a great cartridge to talk about. Because it is almost the pinnacle of ballistic efficiency (personal opinion). 7mm mag is boring. Almost everyone has or has had one. Also 12 (roughly 17-18%) grains less case capacity so it's far more efficient and therefore cheaper to reload. Not gonna lie, it is currently my favorite cartridge and I think you've done a lot of good by bringing it up to a bunch of people who may have never even heard about it before. It's available in some really great rifles these days and I hope to see it's popularity continue to grow.
Hats off to one of the best ammo series I've ever seen. I live in New England and although we do not have Elk, we do have moose. However there are very few opportunities for a 300 yard shot anywhere. So with that in mind I would still say .308.... Why? Because price matters when it comes to practice. Also it is much easier to handload longer range loads with lighter VLD bullets. You should be able to extend the range well beyond 300. Personally... I will never feel comfortable with a 600 yard shot....250 is probably my ethical max so 308 win... Wins
Live in northern Maine, totally prefer 06’ for hunting. Those heavier bullets do the job for bull moose, where a 308 would struggle. Plus when I go out west, I can keep my 06’ and hunt big bear with 240gr . 308 can’t do that!
A lot of moose hunters here in the northeast use .308. I also know a few people who have successfully used 7mm-08 on moose here in the northeast, another cartridge that has seemed to fade a little in the last decade of new cartridges exploding onto the market. PS- my profile pic is one I took deer hunting deep in the northern green mountains, a small log landing.
I live in MT and last year took two elk with 7mm-08 at 291 and 498 yards using Barnes 140 TTSX. My first bear I used a 30-30Win at 68 yards using 160 grain FTX. The bear was 250 pounds and dropped. That bullet blew through it like it wasn't there. I don't see a need for 240 grain bullets for bears, but if that's where you're comfortable then that matters for you. 308 inside 500 yards, especially with monolithics, has been a big game dropper for me for 20 years here in MT on deer and elk. Distance and placement matter most. 308 is deadly, why hunters prefer to down play it is absolutely absurd.
@@gavinm1347 where you getting 240 grain pills for an ‘06? Biggest I’ve seen is 220, I use 180’s out of mine. Also, a 165-180 is perfectly fine for bear, especially reliable penetrating monolithic pills… also a .308 is only 100~ fps slower then an ‘06, not a very big difference…
@@patrickschultz8820 I think it has to do with marketing of the latest and greatest rounds. A .308 is still a more then viable option for modern hunting, in the northeast it’s honestly one of the best options. The .338 federal has also gotten fairly popular up here. It’s an excellent brush buster that hammers deer, moose and bear. I did fall for the hype of a .350 legend. That being said it’s an excellent brush cartridge, but it has really no advantage over a tried and true 30/30 ballistically, other then it makes a slightly larger hole. Shoot a deer behind the shoulder at 80 yards with both the results will be the same. The only “advantage” of the .350 is purely subjective, it can be loaded in an AR which is what I use for a still hunting carbine in the thick northeast woods and swamps. The AR platform is extremely handy in that regard, due to how easy it is for quick handling… lever guns are insanely easy to handle to though, which is why I stated the .350’s “advantage” as subjective…
Hey Jim! Thanks for all the hard work. If you go with a 300wsm shootin’ a 175 grain Barnes LRX leaving the barrel ~3150, It extends the 2000fps barrier to over 600 yards. I live in WY and that’s a hard combo to beat for everything big-game around here.
This was BY FAR the best bullet comparison I've seen. I dont want to hear opinions without data, and you put it all out there for the people to decide with as little bias as possible. Nice work! Subscribed!
Back in the late 80's when I was a teen and started deer hunting my favorite was the 30-30. As I grew into an adult it switched to the 7mm and has been since. However, 20+ years ago, I took my first deer with a bow and it was all over for the guns. The excitement, and intensity of bow hunting trump gun hunting hands down. Now my moto is "if I can't kill it with my bow, it's free to go".
My 2 most favorite long range capable rounds I own are 300WM and 280AI. I built a semi custom 280AI on a Tikka action specifically for western big game mountain hunting. It’s 8 pounds scoped and it’s a tack driver. Super easy to load for and an all round great cartridge. I also own a 270 Win and LOVE that cartridge as well, the ballistics of the .284 bullets give the 280 the edge though.
I bought my first Tikka t3x last Christmas for a hunting rifle I tell you what though. Of all the actions I've handled, I've never felt such a smooth and noticeably fast action with a great single stage trigger from the factory!
Since .300 Win Mag is already out of the competition, I vote for .300 WSM. Honestly, everyone can handle that recoil, especially with a suppressor or muzzle break. Also, this cartridge has a big advantage you didn't mention in the reload: The large range of bullet weights available. You can get factory ammo from 120 grains up to 220 grains. If you are a handloader, you can even go from ~100 grains to 240 grains. There are very few cartridges available that offer a wider range of bullet weights.
Tbh, when you're out hunting. Recoil should not be much of a factor. Especially when you hunt during cooler/winter times with 1.5 inches of clothes padding that.
Hello from Germany and thank you for your always entertaining and informing videos. In some parts of this video I disagree and want to give you my thoughts about the szenario. 308 Winchester: I think using a 178g bullet is not the best choice for a 308. 180g for me is the upper limit for this cartridge, I think if you take a 150g bullet into account, f.e. a barnes TTSX, you will get better results and a significant flatter trajectory. 270 Winchester vs 6.5PRC: The difference in numbers between those cartridges are minimal and I ask myself: Where is the progress in nearly 100 years of cartridge development ? Yes, everyone wants a short action (not me) and the 6.5 PRC outperforms the 270 over 600 yards, but for normal or even far hunting distances I see no real advantage of the 6.5 PRC and guess in the real world the terminal-performance of the 7mm bullet is a little bit higher. Hunting distances: Here in Germany even in what we call here (not comparable to the US) "wide field resorts, free field" most shots are taken between 70-130m. A shot farther than 200m is the absolut exception. And I disagree (for Germany) that there are lots of hunters beeing capable to take a clean kill-shot out to 400yards (365m). For an ethic shot over this (long) distance it requires: Serious regular practising, rifle-accuracy sub MOA in 100m, an absolut perfect shot position and perfect wind-conditions. I observed hunting videos from the US where people take long distance shots on game which I would have never been taken and where they shot the game sick. But - if you can do it cleanly - nothing to complain about. I am myself a ".30-guy": CZ557 - 308, SAKO 85 Carbon Wolf - 30-06, TIKKA TX3 Super Varmint - 300 WinMag (all of these are excellent and about 1/2 MOA over 100m with hand-loaded ammunition) Best Regards !
I didn't realize you had wild animals in Europe. I've spent many summers hiking in the Alps and have only seen cows and petting zoos. I do love the bunnies, guinea pigs, and occasional alpacas though. Reminds me of home. 🇵🇪
7mm rem mag for sure. Especially for hand loading and custom rifle building. I shoot 180gr Bergers at 2850fps and that thing is amazing. Good luck with the results
Thanks for the great content. I think these tests just prove that it’s really hard to compare cartridges. Change the bullets in 300wsm to 180gr and 308 to 165 or 150 and numbers start to look much more favourable for those 2 cartridges. I understand why you chose the weights you did those are just 2 that jump off the paper at me. I personally hunt with 308 and I’m not sure why you would choose a 178gr load for that gun. Definitly not it’s wheel house. 280 really surprised me. That line of white was intriguing to say the least. I again just highlights the challenges of doing a comparison like this. Great job.
308 Win covers me for the ranges I hunt at. And the max range I would shoot at an animal. And should I draw an Arkansas Elk tag ? The old 308 with a bonded 150gr Hornady load took my 1400+ lb. Buffalo. I think it would continue to serve me well against an Elk at the distances our north western woods offer 👍
7mm Rem Mag easily. I shoot half of that list for my regular practice and I always look forward to the 7mm. The only thing I would change about it is the belt.
I say 7mm Rem Mag for the win, powerful but won’t take your shoulder off with a full day of shooting, and ammo is fairly available and moderate in price (not cheap, but not ridiculous) and as a hand loader you can tune it to have less recoil for people that want even less recoil and still get really good performance from the bullet.
Yes, there is not a more versatile or game getting long range caliber than the 7mm rem mag. Manageable recoil, great velocity and flat trajectory as well as a vast selection of premium bullets for the handloader. The swift 150 gr scirrocco behind 66.5 GRS OF IMR 4350 at 3250 fps is one flat shooting deer and elk killer.
I have really enjoyed this series! To my surprise, I see the clear winner is the 280 Ackley Improved. It's a steady performer for anything and everything. The point of the Cartridge Wars was to find the best all-around cartridge. Looks like the 280 AI.
Can’t be the best all round of you can’t find it, I know he says it’s normally available but none of the shops around me even have a spot for it. Availability was one of the criteria. Maybe where you live it is available, but I’ve never seen one or the ammunition for it.
I love the 7mm, shooting factory Remington Core Lokt with a bullet weight of 140 I am getting Muzzle velocity of 3175, energy at 200 of 2240, drift at 400 of 12.7 and drop at 400 of 18 which I find absolutely impressive. The recoil of the 140 seems to be very manageable and I find it actually lighter than the heavier 308 and 30.06 rounds. Comparing 140 numbers to what you have for the 6.5 PRC looks like a more fair assessment and I think the availability of ammo, and price of the 7mm platform just makes more sense. The 140 works great for deer and if you want to go a little heavier for Elk that’s and easy adjustment. I also believe if you compare heavier bullets in each the 7mm and 6.5PRC the 7mm would start out preforming especially at long range. Love and appreciate your work and the channel!
Thanks for the great content. I voted for 7mag. I have 223, 243, 270, and 30-06. Been looking at a 7-08 or 6.5cmoor as a deer/antelope round and because I’m a recoil baby.
My first hunting rifle (1986) was a 7mm Rem Mag, and it is still my favorite to this day. I have more one shot kills with that rifle than any other rifles I've owned, and have killed mule deer and elk with it out over 400 yards (3X9 scope and not set up for ultra long range). Absolutely my number one caliber choice here. Personally, I'm still surprised that 7mm-08 was voted out earlier, especially with some of the 6.5 that made it in, but I guess the 6.5s are all the rage these days. Not that 7mm-08 would have beaten out the 7mm Rem Mag in my mind, but I do think the 7mm-08 is the best whitetail caliber out there.
I am a huge 7mm rem mag fan. Have had a ton of real world success with it and I think it is the winner here. However, this series did inspire me to purchase a 6.5 PRC. just an incredibly fun gun and I cant wait to take it on my next coues hunt!
According to the Nosler 9 reloading book the 280ai is actually 42fps faster than the 7mm-mag with 185gn bullets. Same battle lengths and twist rates. Everything else, the mag is faster, but only just. Pretty neat I think.
Thanks for a fun side by side comparison! I live in WY and my family hunts elk with 270 win's. Of course it works well for antelope and deer too. Guess I should vote what I got in the safe. IDK what I would go with if I had to start all over.
.270 in 130gr @3060fps and tipped with Hornady GMX is good for elk. Every caliber has its “balanced “ bullet, and I think some of your grain choices in the calibers listed are not optimal in that regard.
Thank you for all of the work! I can't wait for next season :) All are excellent cartridges in their own right and would make a great choice for various game at various ranges.. I don't own a .280 AI yet.. But I've been considering one for the last few years, especially after hearing Ryan Muckenhirn (of Vortex) praise it multiple times.
Got to say the 280 AI for the wind and barrel length. Pop a suppressor on and you are good to go. I really want to say 6.5 but I would be worried about taking on an Elk at size and grain.
.308 shouldn't have been compared using 178gr. The most common is 150gr. For elk 165gr is the perfect balance rather the the heavier 178gr used to compare it with the other cartridges listed.
@Travis Landers that's true. For .270 the 130 or 150gr the most common. So ideally the 165gr .308 would be a better comparison. Either way a lot of good data was compiled. I have both calibers and I wouldn't hesitate taking game with either cartridge.
Great presentation, and awesome youtube series. You broke it down very well, discussing favorite cartridges is as risky as telling your wife you don't like her haircut. A few years ago I would have been torn, multiple friends have and love the. 300wsm. I own and have hunted with the 308, 270, and 7 mag and would have been hard pressed to pick the best all around. I bought a 280 ackley a couple years ago, no doubt in my mind it is the best all around hunting cartridge.
I have to say that the vote and the actual availability of ammo where I live are not the same. I'm a short action advocate, period. 308 win, and 300 WSM are the choices for versatility. They hit hard because of their frontal diameter. I take elk with my 308 no problems. The 300 WSM is my next build, all ammo components are available. Not a lot of ammo for the 300 on the shelf, but I role my own. The powder is the same for it as most my other short actions, a huge advantage to the WSM. I see 308 ammo at every store I go to, but it's a moderate range cartridge. Recoil matters to me so I would brake the WSM and it will be fine. The final vote for me is the 300 WSM, but if ammo was a factor because you don't reload, go with the 308 Win.
On the left side of the bracket I'm taking 7mm RM (my favorite cartridge). The right side is a little harder for me, but I'm intrigued by the 280 AI especially after seeing the apples to apples data. And my winner is...7mm RM! I don't use a suppressor so barrel length isn't an issue and with my break the recoil is extremely manageable.
Also, 308 optimal gr. is 165gr out to 500yds +/-. For me my hunting cartridge is 165gr, target shooting is 175gr. Awesome series though. Really enjoyed this!
I own both the .270 and 7mm REM mag, and I believe they should be the top two. I voted for the 7mm because it really is the best all around big game cartridge (IMO). Bring on all the latest and greatest, but I’ll stick with the 7 and the .270.
Jim. Thanks so much! Awesome stuff. I have never shot one, but really want to get my hands on a .280 AI. On the other hand I would love to see what the chart looks like with 150 gr min and 180 gr max bullet weight.
It is well established that the recoil of a 7 rem mag is acceptable. With that being said, and all other criteria being “average” or better than average with the exception of barrel length, I see no way that 7 rem mag loses. Especially when you consider how prevalent the ammo and rifles are. Let me explain why I don’t care about the barrel length. I totally understand the suppressor use argument. But looking at the other lengths listed here, they are all within 2-3 inches with a few exceptions. With a suppressor being 7 inches long, you’re going to end up with a ridiculous overall length regardless unless you go with 308 with it’s very short barrel. So if you want to hunt with a can, you’re basically condemning yourself to a super long overall length unless you want to give up power and range. 7rem mag for the win.
You can get 5-6 inch silencers now. If you got a 280ai with a 22" barrel your OAL barrel length would be 27"-28" Which is long but it's a lot better than 30". I'm setting up a 300 WSM with a 20" barrel and my OAL with silencer will be about 25" which is very reasonable.
If one has to take a 400+ yard shot on game, the length of the rifle is really not an issue, even with a suppressor. As for the 3xtra ounce or 2 between long and short action, are 2 sips of water going to end your hunt early? All of the bore sizes in the finals are close, so barrel profiles could be very close in weight. The 6.5 PRC's "wins" were marginal compared to the 7 mag and the recoil would be reduced on all with a suppressor. None would be good woods guns in bolt action with suppressors, unless we shorten all the barrels. 7 mag has the advantage of worldwide availability in both guns and ammo. Since 30-06 was eliminated, I give 7 mag 1st and 270 Win 2nd.
@@williamgaines9784 this is an excellent point. If we are talking suppressors and western hunting rifles it will generally be open spaces where the length of the rifles really won’t matter.
The flaws are: gun availability and ammo availability (for non-reloaders). Same issue with the 6.5 PRC. Those are my two top picks, but those are definitely "flaws" relative to the .308, 7mm, and .270.
Shot placement is key to hunting effectiveness… shooters ability to find ammo and rifles. Inherent accuracy and the 308 is all you need… skill is the final ingredient. Few other calibers offer the vast amount of bullet choices in such a handy cartridge in both semi auto and bolt guns even single shots and pistols. You can load the 308 with Heavy solids for big game or load it with light varmint rounds.
The .270 is my personal favorite and I have been hunting with it for almost 30 years. The .270 cartridge has been around 100 years and it's still competitive with the modern era. The .308 would be my second pick for price, availability of ammo, and its overall effectiveness within 400 yards. I'm not a wizard, but I would be willing to say that a large percentage of hunters (75%?) don't or won't shoot anything over 400 yards. I will have to say that I have been turned on to the 280 AI. I have not owened or shot the 280 AI, but I am definitely interested in trying it out after seeing this series. Hats off to your channel for putting together some great content!
I think your right. Other calibres are better on paper but at the end of the day, ammo availablity, price, range as well as how many manufacturers are chambering the round makes a MASSIVE difference. For me its a toss up between 308 and 270 as well. 270 better in the plains and 308 better for the woods.
I could only afford 1 hunting rifle so I bought a 7mm RM specifically so I could hunt everything with it, loading down for deer/Antelope (140 grain) or up for elk/bear (160-175). Unless you’re going to hunt Cape buffalo, sounds like you could go 280 AI, 7mm, or 300 w(s)m and be set up for life for everything from Antelope to Moose. Edit: I would also add that a 7mm rem mag’s recoil is nothing compared to a 3” magnum Turkey load out of a 12 gauge. As an East coaster who grew up hunting deer and Turkey using a shotgun with slugs and magnum Turkey loads, a 7mm really doesn’t buck that hard in my opinion.
I voted 7mm rem mag, but I was torn. My main rifle is a 270 win which I got for a good deal when I bought it. I've read a bunch of people who have said that the 270 isn't ideal for elk. So I've debated these other calibers with myself for years, and I'm leaning toward the 7mm bullets for their higher bc bullet selection. I do appreciate the very good recoil of the 270, and my experience with the 270 which I admit is limited (2 big game animals a cow elk at 465, and a 4x4 mule deer buck at 400) has really been that it has killed just fine. My biggest issue with the .277 caliber bullets is the available bc of most bullets in the caliber are lower than I would like. The 6.8 western sounds great but I've not been able to convince myself that it is the answer I want to see where it goes. I am excited to see the 7mm prc that has been mentioned to see where that ends up it might become my choice.
I just bought my wife a 280AI about a week ago because it was the most balanced cartridge I could find that would take deer, elk, and bear without recoiling excessively. Looks like I did my research right. Great video, enjoyed the series keep up the good work.
The comment he made about the 7mm PRC got my attention. I didn't know that was coming. I have a 7mm Rem Mag and absolutely love it. Bought it as a teen and still have and shoot it over 30 years later.
Same here, bought my 7mm rem mag in Remington 700 bdl 30 years ago and the deer that have fallen to it's ever lethal bullets have been many. Would feel naked in the woods without it.
Out of all these, my vote goes to 300wsm with a 180 grain high bc well constructed bullet like the accubond. I have 3 of these cartridges and load for 4, 300wsm included.
The versatility of .308 is just hard to beat. If I am going to shoot elk at 400 or a little further I can load a 150g copper that will hold its weight and keep velocity, recoil is manageable, I can find ammo almost always, and practice ammo is cheap and easily reloaded. Not to mention you can work up amazing handloads for just about anything you want to do with it.
How is it versatile it only has has like 3 affective bullet weights. Handloads dont necessarily increase performance. Its only good qualities are man bitch recoil, barrel life and ammo availability. I load and shoot a lot of cartridges and that is the hard truth. 270 beats it 30.06 beats it 7mm08 beats it 280 beats it. 7x57 and 7x64 beats it. I would even choose a 260 rem over it.
'...I think [the .308] just needed to be 10% more powerful...' -- Which leads right back to the .30-06 SPRG. Load up with plentiful 155 grain match bullets from all that FTR experience for targets, then use 130 grain copper solids for less recoil. Thanks for a great series!
I own 6 hunting rifles. 3 of them are 7 mag. Recoil is noticeable but no where near flinch inducing. One thing I’ll say is on deer if you use regular lead tip bullets and hit a shoulder you might as well throw that shoulder away. But I switched to bonded bullets and meat damage is a lot less. Long story short my pick is the 7mm mag.
I got to give it to the 308. With its availability, ability to kill most game in North America and almost every rifle company chambers it not to mention 20in barrels so you can use a supressor, 308 is my go to.
I have to vote for 300wsm. The only argument against it is it has a heavy recoil and so it isn't a great PRS caliber. But with a big muzzle break it is manageable for a PRS match. If your going to become more involved in PRS your going to build a more specific gun. Also I'm writing in 7 saum. I like short actions, it is elk capable and people shoot it in PRS.
Oh my, how many times have I heard this, read about this and tried to settle arguments about it? Too many! I am 68 and have had guns in my hands since I was eight years old (as a child, military service, law enforcement, private contractor, target and hunting). For hunting I believe in simplicity and effectiveness of the round (not a magnum guy) I use the 30-06 case anytime I can. 25-06 with 100 grain bullet, 270 with 140 grain bullet, 30-06 with 180 grain bullet and am a firm believer in HUNTING not long range shooting. PRACTICE shooting your gun at different ranges, know your and your guns limitations based on that practice and become proficient out to 400 yards. And remember when guys start regurgitating this subject (and they will) "You can't fix the NUT behind the BUTT"!!!
Ammo availability on MidwayUSA right now. 6.5 PRC zero available; 7mm Rem Mag zero available; 280 AI zero available; 300 WSM three available; .270 six available; .308 forty-eight available. So if ability to buy the ammo is taken into consideration it's hands down .308
Definitely 7mm mag or 300wsm. I'm not a fan of recoil either but elk are tough and deserve the most ethical tools for the job. I currently use a 7mm mag and love it but if I were to build a custom I'd go for the 300wsm for the short action and barrel length reasons. 280 wouldn't be a bad choice but ammo cost more than the 7mag and 300wsm. Why pay more to get less....
I'm having trouble picking 308 vs 270. Both are fantastic. I think, in th end, 270 is the better hunting round, but 308 is better for everything else. If I had to pick, I would day 308 is the overall winner.
For sure 308 ammo can be had all day as well, if youre looking at .270 diameter cartridges you should get the 6.8, does everything the .270 does but better and in a shorter action. There’s no reason to get .270 over the 6.8 nowadays since I’ve found 6.8 ammo much easier to find then .270
@@Mountain-Man27 It's funny you say that because that argument is why the .300 WSM beat the .30-06 earlier in the series. The 6.8 might have won the whole thing, but the argument didn't work twice and the .270 beat the 6.8 in their video. You'd think it would have ended up .30-06 and .270 or .300 WSM and 6.8 in the finale, but somehow the vote went wonky.
Just get 30-06 instead. It can anything the 270 or 308 can do, especially if you reload, and some things neither can do. They're all great cartridges, though.
with the options left i gotta give the nod to the 308, it just works and you can get the ammo everywhere, there is enough ammo options and grain weights for anything on the continent.. its sufficent diameter to make nice large wound channels but easy on the shoulder
In 1969 in BCT, I was introduced and trained to the M-14 and the .308. It just imprinted into my brain although it took a while to get used to the recoil (I weighed 118lbs.). On the plus side I qualified expert and consistently hit targets at 500 yards. In Vietnam, I had a hard time hitting distance targets at 300 yards + with the M-16 and the .556. By a quirk of fate, I was given a fully automatic M-14 and I became the platoon marksman (not a sniper). I could consistently perform the same as I did in Basic even in the terrible humidity. I twice hit targets at 750 yards, once without a barrel rest and once with the bipod. So of course, I vote for the .308. I have hunted deer and elk in Central Utah and have always killed my targets when shooting under 500 yards.
7mm Rem mag for availability, but all are great choices! However, I feel the 6.8Western got cheated out for what it really is and would have been the next top contender in this chart but unfortunately it was taken out ONLY because the .270 has more history and people haven't caught on to the 6.8w yet.
Love em' all but the 7 mag hands down for the best and most capable all around cartridge. Can't believe the short mag beat out the 300 Win mag but here we are.
All good cartridges and I love my 270s and 308's but winner is 7mm remington mag. Ammo most time is plentiful, low recoil for a magnum. You and load light or heavier bullets. It's a tried and true extremely versatile cartridge.
I have owned every caliber that made the final round. I currently use a 6.5 PRC and a 300WSM. But if I had to choose just one? It is 280AI. The last four rifles I have purchased for my boys, who get one rifle, are all 280AI. My son who lives in Utah came home to Alberta last fall for a long overdue hunt. He dropped a mature muley buck and a bull moose both at over 250 yards. Moose took three steps, the buck dropped in his tracks. Light rifle, low recoil, high confidence. Look at the chart: all white. It does everything well.
The 308 and 300wsm you were running heavy bullets so recoil, and max effectiveness were off. The 308 in the 150, to 168 grain can easily take an elk past 400. Heck ive seen a few taken at 700+ and 900+ just on TH-cam amd both dropped on the spot. All around best round would be 308 for hunting and target shooting in my opinion. I have used mine for exactly that for almost 30 years. If i need more i use the 300win mag.
Seems to me the trend towards high-BC heavy-for-cal bullets isn’t always a good thing. I’ve seen it multiple times when a guy who hasn’t fired 100 rounds of Center fire in the last ten years goes and buys a nice new rifle in .300 RUM or 28 Nosler and wants to “be able to shoot 600-700 yards”. Grabs a box of ammo with bullets so heavy it has the trajectory of a .308 out to 400+ and somehow thinks he’s better off. For my money you’re better off first learning to shoot with a round that’s more manageable in terms of both cost and recoil. But to each his own.
@@ratherbefishing4225 For me as a hunter, BC doesnt mean much to me really. I think of what is the bullet going to do at this distance. Did i use the right weight to effectivly dispatch the animal with out destroying to much meat. I hunt ethical distances under 300yards and mostly well under 200yards 99 percent of the time. I like to get close. To much can happen at long distnce shooting. People forget flight time to the animal and it can take a half a step and go from heart and lung shot to a gut shot or miss. If i ever need or want to hunt at longer ranges then I'll practice my drop at that distance or distances that i need to learn. 308 class bullets fill this need because they have the most selection in bullet weights from around 110gr to 240gr i think, dont quote me. That is a huge range! So no matter if i pick a 308win, 30-06, 300wsm, or a 300 win mag i can load or buy off the shelf all these same rounds in everyone of these calibers. No other bullet class can touch it in hunting versatility. That is why 308win is the average Joes hunting gun choice, especially if he could only choose one. That and ammo is always available and cheap.
A lot of these numbers are affected by bullet choice. If you choose a 308 with a 150gr bullet, it will have a different velocity, power and trajectory than a 180 gr bullet. Then you have the different manufacturers. Hornady, Berger, Sierra and Federal all have different BC numbers for their top of the line hunting bullets of all weights. Furthermore, bullet design can affect how the bullet performs at different velocities. So a mono-core bullet needs a higher velocity for reliable expansion than a jacketed lead bullet with a ballistic tip. So that 308 might gain more effective range with a different round or it might lose some effective range. The same goes for all the rounds.
Which is why he compared with precision hunter across the board. The Precision Hunters are all loaded by Hornady specifically get the best range and performance out of their respective cartridges. Which means that BC vs velocity is optimized. I won’t use the Precision Hunter ammo anymore because terminally I’ve found it lacking in performance, but for a ballistics comparison just for the sake of finding a way to control the ammo variable and really showcase the best numbers widely achievable for each cartridge, I think Precision Hunter is the best choice.
7mm mag is the best for the west. Can take anything in Colorado. Even with a light weight hunting rifle I can drop a couple boxes of ammo and no recoil flinch. Only issue I have is 24" barrel is a bit long getting through the trees.
Just went to South Africa in Aug 2021. We shot 17 Antelope with a 6.5 PRC running a 156 EOL handload at 3040fps. All 1 shot kills on everything including Sable and Blue Wildebeest. Longest shots were on Blesbok, 495 and 500 yards. Also killed and Eland with 2 shots at 500 yards. If I'd of had a bonded bullet would have likely been 1 shot.
Totally agree. But if we are taking a slight step up.. I’m taking my 338 win mag all day. You can load 185 grain CX bullets or 200 grain ttsx. You get 3,000-3,200 fps with that 338 win mag and it produces something ridiculous like 4,200 ft lbs of energy. It will knock over anything.
I have a 30-06, and just picked up a 6.5 PRC in December that I'm excited to start shooting. Also just got 5 boxes of Federal ammo. Up until now I've also had a very hard time finding it. That being said, with so many 6.5 PRC rifles flying off the shelves you'd think that the ammo manufacturers will catch on at some point. As far as the killing power goes, bullet selection/construction is important. The frontal area differences are pretty minimal, especially considering the amount of speed and energy the prc carries down range.
As a hunter in Maine, I use the .308 Winchester for hunting. Several reasons: 1) readily available ammo, not only hunting ammo, but surplus 7.62x51 ball ammo just for practice and fun at the range. 2) very effective on the critters I'm hunting for. (whitetail deer) 3) very effective within my personal maximum range that I will attempt to harvest an animal from. For those reasons, the .308 Winchester has my current vote. But things may change in the future, such as maybe I will have improved my skills enough that I may extend my personal maximum range, or maybe I might finally hunt moose, or who knows how things will change. Excellent video. 👍You gave us the facts in a clear and engaging manner without any BS or hype. I enjoyed watching for this reason.
I own a 308 and a 270 and love them both. I shot a 7mm mag many years ago as a teenager. Scoped myself and left a cut/scar over my eye. But I want to give it another shot and see how I feel about it. Actually been jonsing for a 7mm mag but have put the brakes in gun purchases for a while. 😊 I live out west and hunt elk and think it might be the overall winner for hunting out here. One consideration though is the average bullet weight for factory rounds. With the 7mm mag you're often dealing with 140-150 grain projectiles in factory fodder. Its hard to beat the 308 and 270 for all of your criteria. I think with the right load the 308 can do most anything you'd need it for. Check out the Norma Bondstrike in 308 with a BC of .615. Starting at 2625 fps it stays above 2000 fps out to 450 yards and above 1500 ft pounds to 500 yards. 308 is so versatile. The 7mm mag is probably not the ideal fun gun to shoot at the range because of recoil and cost of ammo. I'll be interested to see what caliber comes out on top.
The first shot I ever fired on the African continent was 175 yards at a quartering blue wildebeest. A 140 gr. A-Frame from a .270 Win. absolutely crushed the wildebeest, dropped him in his tracks. My PH had lobbied for my using the .300 Win Mag I had brought along on that first safari, but was at least partially converted by that first devastating shot. I always admired the extraordinarily eloquent, John Kingsley-Heath and his words concerning Americans and their fascination with distinguishing minute dissimilarities between similar cartridges, “There is very little difference in killing power between a 6mm (.243) and a .375 H&H and absolutely none between a 30-06 and a 7mm Remington Magnum.” But it is entertaining to dissect the particulars. Each of these calibers is quite capable but it would be hard to argue against the .300 WSM on game including Elk at anything beyond moderate range. Shot placement and bullet construction being more critical than any other variable.
300 wsm. Mine doesn’t kick near as hard as you are projecting. Not sure how the numbers are calculated but I have a 7 mag that gives me a headache and a bruised shoulder every time I shoot it and my 300 wsm doesn’t. Although maybe not a recreational weekend shooter rifle, my vote goes to 300 wsm.
What rifle? I was almost set on the Savage ultralite in a 300 wsm but I'm seeing a lot of other channels mentioning it as a mule for recoil also. And it being only 6lb, concerned it might be a big recoil. Looking at a possible elk hunt in NM if drawn but would primarily be used for whitetail. Torn between a 270 vs 300 wsm. Since it'll be used for hunting only, I'm not going to worry about recoil during the hunt but for practicing, wonder if it kicks enough to make you flinch more.
@@WheelchairLiving1 my rifle is a custom built in 300 wsm with a wood stock. I don’t have an exact figure on weight but she’s not what you would call light weight. Maybe 8-9 lbs. if your primary critters you go after are white tail get a 270. A 270 works great on elk. I live in New Mexico and my wife and I both harvested elk last year with our 6.5 creedmoors. The reason I go so light weight is meat waste is much less with a 6.5 creedmoor than the 300 wsm. And the 6.5 creedmoor works phenomenally. My wife’s elk was 295 yards complete pass through mine was about 125 complete pass through neither went more than 10 yards after being hit with 120 grain Barnes bullets. But we take standing shots and are confident with our shot placement. That is key, but a 300 wsm you can virtually hit them anywhere and you will find them. I don’t condone bad shots but it happens and I’ve recovered gut shot and rear quarter shot elk with the 300 wsm and I’ve seen elk lost with other calibers with bad shots.
@@josephchavez8280 yea I'm kind of leaning 270 again. I'm always careful about taking a good clean shot. Never been one to focus on the bigger calibers but always hear mixed opinions on elk and having never hunted them, want to make a good choice. Thanks for the input.
@@WheelchairLiving1 elk are tough critters for sure but a well placed shot is more important than numbers on a chart. I have harvested many mule deer and elk with a 308 300 wsm and my first one last year with a 6.5 creedmoor. The most important advice you need to worry about is shooting what you have well. With that being said I had a 7mm mag that kicked the snot right out of my nose and I got rid of it. It was a Remington 700 lr heavy barrel heavy rifle. I didn’t enjoy that rifle at all and the 300 wsm does kick worse than a 6.5 cm and 308 but it’s not unbearable like that 7mm mag I had and sold. Just my honest opinion I don’t have data to backup my claims just what I felt.
Get a coach too. We all can shoot better but it is hard to see our own mistakes sometimes. Having an experienced long distance shoot critiquing your form will help you improve much faster and tell you watch you need to practice.
Andrew, take it from someone hunting elk for 46 years. .270 is capable but not a go to for elk. Get you a 7mm REM Mag and never look back or if you really want the actual best elk cartridge on the planet, get you a 300 Weatherby. The 7RM though is easy to shoot and you can always find ammo, even now at a reasonable price. Go with a 140gr bullet to get good velocity, energy, and range.
Awesome video. Your point about finding the best cartridge that is a balance is a tough one. I just watched a series from “hopeful remnant” that put a whole bunch of cartridges through some interesting criteria where he said that efficiency was the most important thing and then thousand yard shoot ability and hunting ability were both equally as important. People should check his series out to because he tries to give a impartial review and decision. Cartridge comparisons are always the bread and butter of these kind of videos
7mm rem mag…. When the tikka t3’s first came out I bought one when I was 16. Wanted something I could kill elk with at 600yrds but also something with light enough bullet weights for deer. At Walmart you can buy 140&175 gr weights.
![ทัศนศึกษาโรงงานผลิตโค้ก [THAI/ENG SUB]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/M9y-TJBNem0/mqdefault.jpg)
You can vote here: forms.gle/hvh2acA9ZmgfgSZ18 After you vote, click "see previous responses" to see who won!
Just look at the results. You can call it now
But for availability and cost, the coming 7mm PRC would win.
I have a fast twist 7rem mag. It is a 700 rem with the 1000 yard Gunwerks package
7-33 nosler 3200fps 190grn .838 BC it's going 2037 fps at 1100yards - and has 4320fpe and has 1000fpe at 1mile has a longer throat with longer barrel life than a 28 Nosler! And Fits into a detachable long action magazine !
What’s next?!?! What a channel!
When it comes to the greatest hunting cartridge ever made, that statement means many things to many people. With that said, the 308 doesn't have punishing recoil, is common as dirt, and has killed everything from grizzlies to the taliban.
Where can I find the results to this poll?
I have one of my gun cabinet. .308 does many things, but few of them well, except…
What it’s REALLY good at is medium machine gun cartridge.
@@edwardhoward4708 a Leatherman-type multi-tool is not the best tool for many jobs, but it can get SO MANY jobs done, it's a great thing to have at hand. I see the 308 Win as that sort of tool.
.270 is just as old as .308 and shoots flatter
7mm-08, out does the 308. Both are my favorite.
That’s why guns are like lays chips, you can’t have just one!
7mm mag is the cartrige that does it all, to me is the center of all calibers. 7 mm mag should be the winner .
thank yo for all your videos, I really enjoy them.
.270 has never failed in ethical ranges with shot placement. Bring on the next 100 years.
.270 win for the win
I love my .270 win
Can’t beat a 308 in the woods for deer. Longer distances prefer the 270. If I was an elk hunter I would pick the 7mm. I think it mostly depends on where you live (terrain) and what you hunt.
another benefit of 308 is that it's used on other platforms like AR-10 so one batch of ammo with many uses. And you can actually get ammo right now. What's not to like?
7mm what? 30 caliber is better for elk. Every outfitter in the country will tell you that. Doesn’t mean it can’t be done with a .284 bullet, but it’s certainly not the best.
@@josephbutts007 trajectory, trajectory and down range ballistics is what’s not to like.
@@progradepainting3755 aaaaand you missed the point of what was said here smh. He said in the woods! If you’ve ever been in the woods you’d know there is no “down range”. Give those thumbs a break and read a little deeper before looking dumb.
@@oldrango883 aaaaand .308 still doesn’t win that category either for a multitude of reasons.
Elk = 300 wsm, Match shoot = 6.5 prc. One rifle = 7mm Rem Mag for the win.
I can agree with that. I'd say Elk = 300WSM, Deer=6.5PRC, NRL Hunter Match=6.5 Creed or PRC. Best all-around? 280AI, but if the 6.8 Western weren't voted out, I would have gone for it. 🙂
@@backfire I disagree 6.8 doesn't do anything more than 270 Winchester
What does it do that my Mashburn .30 Long doesn't?
(2.85" H&H Case blown out with 30 degree shoulder).
7mm Remington Magnum. I own many hunting rifles and my 7mm is my favorite and seems to always put the game down quickly and can shoot it 0-400 yards effectively
or 1000 yards
I love my 7mag too
I have a 7mm magnum and I love it. But if I had to pick one cartridge for the rest of my life it would be the 30-06.
I still love 30-06. Very versatile especially if you hand load.
🤮
Yup, yup, yup, I couldn't agree more.
Very true. My dad has a model 70 30-06 that he's had since the mid 80s and we were thinking he should upgrade for hunting elk to have better long range performance but with the hand loads we've developed there's honestly no reason to upgrade. It's that close to a 7mm Rem Mag or a 300 Win Mag.
I took deer and elk with a 30-06, open sights, Springfield 03A3 in my younger years but I couldn't take the recoil now.
The 6.5 PRC looks intriguing.
And very reasonable to hand load
Although I don’t own one, it’s hard to argue with the overall versatility of the 7 RM. Readily available ammo and rifles, good selection of projectiles.
Jim, Thanks so much for going through this cartridge Wars series. It really has been fun to watch. I think the Finalists are excellent representations from their classes. I have a majority of these calibers and would agree they are all just great.
280ai is my favorite in your chart it sets in the middle on all categories. Recoils like a 270win hits like a 3006 and shoots flatter than both. 300wsm is second for me
They are both great cartridges. 👍
I have both in my gun safe. 280AI is a Kimber with nicely figured walnut; and the WSM is a Browning Stainless Stalker. Nice to have choices.
But it doesn’t shoot flatter than a .270 according to the chart?
sits, not sets.
My 270 kicks the hell out of me
Tough competition! I still love the 7mm RM the most. I feel it maintains the best overall characteristics measured here.
Yep. And his numbers are really low for the 7mmRM as far as speed and ballistics. If you reload and use a heavy for caliber bullet and some of the newer powders, you can get a 180 grain burger over 3000 feet if not 3100 ft./s.. RL22, IMR8133, 3000 FPS NO PROBLEM.
280 Ackley. I’ve mentioned 280AI on this channel in the comments at least a half dozen times. It’s by far the most overlooked, and underrated cartridge out there. Notice in the graph that it’s not the best or worst at anything compared to the other cartridges. It’s simply good at all of them. If a hand loader, the extra powder in the 7 Rem Mag shows you just how efficient the 280 Ackley is. With a 160gr bullet, it takes the Rem Mag around 13 grains more powder to achieve nearly the same velocity as the Ackley according to Barnes load data. More powder equals, more recoil, shorter barrel life, added cost, ect ……. With the price of things today this matters. I just got 2lbs of Varget at $60 per pound. It nearly made me faint lol
Shoot i cant even find varget
@@bruce5612 it was in a local store. New stock. I haven’t been able to find Varget in 3 years lol. Got 2 lbs. $120. Little salty.
@@bruce5612 primers!! Primers is what I can’t find. I’m down to 400 large rifle primers, and maybe 600 small rifle. It’s nuts. I haven’t been shooting much since last summer. I’ve been trying to conserve and ration primers. I have a couple hundred rounds loaded for each gun just in case. And haven’t done any real load development for about a year. I hate it.
@@craigmcmullen231 iv gotten lucky and found large rifle primers but they’re running 60-70 to the thousand. Cant find magnum
@@bruce5612oh wow. I’d jump at that. $60-$70 a thousand. It’s much better than none.
I had found some fairly cheap in Canada but they wouldn’t ship here unfortunately
I’d definitely go with the 7mm REM Mag.. A 24” barrel is all you need! You can go up to 175g bullets for harder hitting energy or down to 139g or less lighter bullets for faster and flatter shooting. Ammo is readily available. 308 would then be my next choice.
with a 24" barrel you have lost 100 to 150"per second you mite as well shoot a .270 with a 24"barrel ..
@@John_Redcorn_ that's funny my reloading book tells me the good old 270 can push a 180GR bar jrn at 2540 fps.
my 300 RUM sets 180 Gr of at 3250 fps
@@davidorpwood8433 What twist rate does your rifle have? Mine I believe is 1/10 and I've never gotten decent accuracy with 160 gr Partitions or a lot of copper 150 gr bullets.
You can shoot the 195gn Berger in the 7 mag. I have a 1:8.5 twist but you can buy a browning x bolt in 1:8 twist.
Yup. The 150 gr at 3200 and the heavyweight 175 bowler partition are pure death on deer and elk. In my world the 7mm rem mag RULES.
I personally don't think shooting anything past 400 yards is that ethical, even if you can do it should you? Why not go hunting instead of shooting. Sneak up on that animal and take it under 300. That's why I say 308 it's by far the easiest to find ammo, a rifle chambered in it, most variety and ease of hand loading, and completely capable for elk. Also won't damage as much meat as say the 300 wsm if you're going for deer.
Of those choices the 7mag wins hands down for versatility for Deer to Elk in the mountains.You can buy a 7 mag or a .300winmag and never buy another rifle unless you just want to…..and we all want to
While there is nothing wrong with them, belted cartridges are getting to be passe. Do you see any modern cartridge designs with belts?
@@jjsemperfi just because they aren’t needed doesn’t mean they cause anything bad to happen.Many ways to skin a cat
@@dmatt2284 I agree, hence why I said “while there is nothing wrong with them..”
For me it's the 308. I've done everything with a 165 grain bullet. From shooting deer and hogs at distance, to shooting targets all day long. Easy to walk in the store and grab a box whenever you need it. For elk it'll 100% do the job in most hunting situations. I think if you ask "most" elk hunters how far they are shooting elk they won't say 500-600 yards.
The 308 is the cartridge for the masses. Don't just think about ammo availability, think about new and used rifles too. Way more 308 rifles at great prices both new and used. My Ruger American.308 is crazy accurate for the money. Being left handed also makes me weary of gun availability in other calibers.
@@sterlingcrroundtable8158 another valid point. It's a very easy platform to get into from the bolt gun and even semi auto standpoint. Even from building a custom gun. It's so many parts out there to build a quality bolt gun or semi auto in 308.
The barrel length on the .308 is listed as only 20 inches, should have been 22 to be fair. Also that 174 gr. bullet show the .308 kicking harder than a .270, not my experience. .308 for the win.
@@johngoodman9380 yeah I can agree with that. One of my 308 guns have a 24 inch barrel. He likes the shorter barrels for suppressor use.
@@kingjackson25 Maybe the powers that be didn't want the .308 to win. Enough of my whining. Good shooting to all.
280AI. Hornady is not loading that cartridge to its potential. Handloaders can get it over 3100 at 168 grain ABLR. IT only gives up 150 fps to 28 Nosler. With 30% less powder
But if you're going to hot rod it that hard, why not just shoot the 7 mag?
Because it has a sleek modern case design. Because it's not a belted magnum. Because it's a great cartridge to talk about. Because it is almost the pinnacle of ballistic efficiency (personal opinion). 7mm mag is boring. Almost everyone has or has had one. Also 12 (roughly 17-18%) grains less case capacity so it's far more efficient and therefore cheaper to reload. Not gonna lie, it is currently my favorite cartridge and I think you've done a lot of good by bringing it up to a bunch of people who may have never even heard about it before. It's available in some really great rifles these days and I hope to see it's popularity continue to grow.
Hats off to one of the best ammo series I've ever seen. I live in New England and although we do not have Elk, we do have moose. However there are very few opportunities for a 300 yard shot anywhere. So with that in mind I would still say .308.... Why? Because price matters when it comes to practice. Also it is much easier to handload longer range loads with lighter VLD bullets. You should be able to extend the range well beyond 300. Personally... I will never feel comfortable with a 600 yard shot....250 is probably my ethical max so 308 win... Wins
Live in northern Maine, totally prefer 06’ for hunting. Those heavier bullets do the job for bull moose, where a 308 would struggle. Plus when I go out west, I can keep my 06’ and hunt big bear with 240gr . 308 can’t do that!
A lot of moose hunters here in the northeast use .308. I also know a few people who have successfully used 7mm-08 on moose here in the northeast, another cartridge that has seemed to fade a little in the last decade of new cartridges exploding onto the market.
PS- my profile pic is one I took deer hunting deep in the northern green mountains, a small log landing.
I live in MT and last year took two elk with 7mm-08 at 291 and 498 yards using Barnes 140 TTSX. My first bear I used a 30-30Win at 68 yards using 160 grain FTX. The bear was 250 pounds and dropped. That bullet blew through it like it wasn't there. I don't see a need for 240 grain bullets for bears, but if that's where you're comfortable then that matters for you. 308 inside 500 yards, especially with monolithics, has been a big game dropper for me for 20 years here in MT on deer and elk. Distance and placement matter most. 308 is deadly, why hunters prefer to down play it is absolutely absurd.
@@gavinm1347 where you getting 240 grain pills for an ‘06? Biggest I’ve seen is 220, I use 180’s out of mine. Also, a 165-180 is perfectly fine for bear, especially reliable penetrating monolithic pills… also a .308 is only 100~ fps slower then an ‘06, not a very big difference…
@@patrickschultz8820 I think it has to do with marketing of the latest and greatest rounds. A .308 is still a more then viable option for modern hunting, in the northeast it’s honestly one of the best options. The .338 federal has also gotten fairly popular up here. It’s an excellent brush buster that hammers deer, moose and bear. I did fall for the hype of a .350 legend. That being said it’s an excellent brush cartridge, but it has really no advantage over a tried and true 30/30 ballistically, other then it makes a slightly larger hole. Shoot a deer behind the shoulder at 80 yards with both the results will be the same. The only “advantage” of the .350 is purely subjective, it can be loaded in an AR which is what I use for a still hunting carbine in the thick northeast woods and swamps. The AR platform is extremely handy in that regard, due to how easy it is for quick handling… lever guns are insanely easy to handle to though, which is why I stated the .350’s “advantage” as subjective…
Hey Jim!
Thanks for all the hard work.
If you go with a 300wsm shootin’ a 175 grain Barnes LRX leaving the barrel ~3150, It extends the 2000fps barrier to over 600 yards.
I live in WY and that’s a hard combo to beat for everything big-game around here.
This was BY FAR the best bullet comparison I've seen. I dont want to hear opinions without data, and you put it all out there for the people to decide with as little bias as possible. Nice work! Subscribed!
Back in the late 80's when I was a teen and started deer hunting my favorite was the 30-30. As I grew into an adult it switched to the 7mm and has been since. However, 20+ years ago, I took my first deer with a bow and it was all over for the guns. The excitement, and intensity of bow hunting trump gun hunting hands down. Now my moto is "if I can't kill it with my bow, it's free to go".
My 2 most favorite long range capable rounds I own are 300WM and 280AI. I built a semi custom 280AI on a Tikka action specifically for western big game mountain hunting. It’s 8 pounds scoped and it’s a tack driver. Super easy to load for and an all round great cartridge. I also own a 270 Win and LOVE that cartridge as well, the ballistics of the .284 bullets give the 280 the edge though.
I bought my first Tikka t3x last Christmas for a hunting rifle
I tell you what though. Of all the actions I've handled, I've never felt such a smooth and noticeably fast action with a great single stage trigger from the factory!
I have 300WM to. I'd go with that overall. I think the 300WSM but with it being harder to find a good 300WSM rifle I'd just stick with 300WM.
Since .300 Win Mag is already out of the competition, I vote for .300 WSM. Honestly, everyone can handle that recoil, especially with a suppressor or muzzle break.
Also, this cartridge has a big advantage you didn't mention in the reload: The large range of bullet weights available.
You can get factory ammo from 120 grains up to 220 grains. If you are a handloader, you can even go from ~100 grains to 240 grains. There are very few cartridges available that offer a wider range of bullet weights.
Tbh, when you're out hunting. Recoil should not be much of a factor. Especially when you hunt during cooler/winter times with 1.5 inches of clothes padding that.
Hello from Germany and thank you for your always entertaining and informing videos.
In some parts of this video I disagree and want to give you my thoughts about the szenario.
308 Winchester:
I think using a 178g bullet is not the best choice for a 308. 180g for me is the upper limit for this cartridge, I think if you take a 150g bullet into account, f.e. a barnes TTSX, you will get better results and a significant flatter trajectory.
270 Winchester vs 6.5PRC:
The difference in numbers between those cartridges are minimal and I ask myself: Where is the progress in nearly 100 years of cartridge development ? Yes, everyone wants a short action (not me) and the 6.5 PRC outperforms the 270 over 600 yards, but for normal or even far hunting distances I see no real advantage of the 6.5 PRC and guess in the real world the terminal-performance of the 7mm bullet is a little bit higher.
Hunting distances:
Here in Germany even in what we call here (not comparable to the US) "wide field resorts, free field" most shots are taken between 70-130m. A shot farther than 200m is the absolut exception. And I disagree (for Germany) that there are lots of hunters beeing capable to take a clean kill-shot out to 400yards (365m). For an ethic shot over this (long) distance it requires: Serious regular practising, rifle-accuracy sub MOA in 100m, an absolut perfect shot position and perfect wind-conditions. I observed hunting videos from the US where people take long distance shots on game which I would have never been taken and where they shot the game sick. But - if you can do it cleanly - nothing to complain about.
I am myself a ".30-guy": CZ557 - 308, SAKO 85 Carbon Wolf - 30-06, TIKKA TX3 Super Varmint - 300 WinMag (all of these are excellent and about 1/2 MOA over 100m with hand-loaded ammunition)
Best Regards !
Excellent choice of rifles
165 / 168gn is the sweat spot for .308. I shoot 140gn SP for Fallow deer and Reds - no problem with kills at all.
I didn't realize you had wild animals in Europe. I've spent many summers hiking in the Alps and have only seen cows and petting zoos. I do love the bunnies, guinea pigs, and occasional alpacas though. Reminds me of home. 🇵🇪
If you shoot within 200 m why a 300 win mag
@@ssimossimo576 For moose in Sweden and bear in Romania. Moose up to 400m.
7mm rem mag for sure. Especially for hand loading and custom rifle building. I shoot 180gr Bergers at 2850fps and that thing is amazing. Good luck with the results
Thanks for the great content. I think these tests just prove that it’s really hard to compare cartridges. Change the bullets in 300wsm to 180gr and 308 to 165 or 150 and numbers start to look much more favourable for those 2 cartridges. I understand why you chose the weights you did those are just 2 that jump off the paper at me. I personally hunt with 308 and I’m not sure why you would choose a 178gr load for that gun. Definitly not it’s wheel house. 280 really surprised me. That line of white was intriguing to say the least. I again just highlights the challenges of doing a comparison like this. Great job.
308 Win covers me for the ranges I hunt at. And the max range I would shoot at an animal.
And should I draw an Arkansas Elk tag ? The old 308 with a bonded 150gr Hornady load took my 1400+ lb. Buffalo. I think it would continue to serve me well against an Elk at the distances our north western woods offer 👍
7mm Rem Mag easily. I shoot half of that list for my regular practice and I always look forward to the 7mm. The only thing I would change about it is the belt.
I say 7mm Rem Mag for the win, powerful but won’t take your shoulder off with a full day of shooting, and ammo is fairly available and moderate in price (not cheap, but not ridiculous) and as a hand loader you can tune it to have less recoil for people that want even less recoil and still get really good performance from the bullet.
Yes, there is not a more versatile or game getting long range caliber than the 7mm rem mag. Manageable recoil, great velocity and flat trajectory as well as a vast selection of premium bullets for the handloader. The swift 150 gr scirrocco behind 66.5 GRS OF IMR 4350 at 3250 fps is one flat shooting deer and elk killer.
I have really enjoyed this series! To my surprise, I see the clear winner is the 280 Ackley Improved. It's a steady performer for anything and everything. The point of the Cartridge Wars was to find the best all-around cartridge. Looks like the 280 AI.
Can’t be the best all round of you can’t find it, I know he says it’s normally available but none of the shops around me even have a spot for it. Availability was one of the criteria. Maybe where you live it is available, but I’ve never seen one or the ammunition for it.
Problem is I have never seen amo for it. And have not seen guns in that chamber either for sale. I’m sure there are some places but big picture no
@@jaydunbar7538 guess you live under a rock if you've never even seen one or ammo. You can also shoot regular 280Rem ammo in it as well.
It's made a big comeback, the popularity has surged in recent years.
My local Walmart ALWAYS has 280! Mostly because the same 5 boxes haven’t been sold in 4 years.
300wsm hands down my favorite for everything! Super super accurate at all ranges, recoil is manageable, reliable
I love the 7mm, shooting factory Remington Core Lokt with a bullet weight of 140 I am getting Muzzle velocity of 3175, energy at 200 of 2240, drift at 400 of 12.7 and drop at 400 of 18 which I find absolutely impressive. The recoil of the 140 seems to be very manageable and I find it actually lighter than the heavier 308 and 30.06 rounds. Comparing 140 numbers to what you have for the 6.5 PRC looks like a more fair assessment and I think the availability of ammo, and price of the 7mm platform just makes more sense. The 140 works great for deer and if you want to go a little heavier for Elk that’s and easy adjustment. I also believe if you compare heavier bullets in each the 7mm and 6.5PRC the 7mm would start out preforming especially at long range. Love and appreciate your work and the channel!
This series has helped me so much in my knowledge of firearms and ballistics. Just bought a Tikka T3x roughtech in .308 win. Thank you Jim!
7mm reg mag it is!!! Going for 6.5 prc next. Thanks for the great video bud. Keep up the good work 👍
Thanks for the great content. I voted for 7mag. I have 223, 243, 270, and 30-06.
Been looking at a 7-08 or 6.5cmoor as a deer/antelope round and because I’m a recoil baby.
My first hunting rifle (1986) was a 7mm Rem Mag, and it is still my favorite to this day. I have more one shot kills with that rifle than any other rifles I've owned, and have killed mule deer and elk with it out over 400 yards (3X9 scope and not set up for ultra long range). Absolutely my number one caliber choice here. Personally, I'm still surprised that 7mm-08 was voted out earlier, especially with some of the 6.5 that made it in, but I guess the 6.5s are all the rage these days. Not that 7mm-08 would have beaten out the 7mm Rem Mag in my mind, but I do think the 7mm-08 is the best whitetail caliber out there.
I am a huge 7mm rem mag fan. Have had a ton of real world success with it and I think it is the winner here. However, this series did inspire me to purchase a 6.5 PRC. just an incredibly fun gun and I cant wait to take it on my next coues hunt!
I'm inspired too... unless the rifle I want offers 7mm PRC.
@@thedalillama as long as you reload
That video had me smiling from start to end. Awesome content, very entertaining, loved it, thanks!
I gotta go with the .280AI. Just make sure you get a fast twist rate in whatever barrel you choose and you can almost match the 7mm Rem.
According to the Nosler 9 reloading book the 280ai is actually 42fps faster than the 7mm-mag with 185gn bullets. Same battle lengths and twist rates. Everything else, the mag is faster, but only just. Pretty neat I think.
Thanks for a fun side by side comparison! I live in WY and my family hunts elk with 270 win's. Of course it works well for antelope and deer too. Guess I should vote what I got in the safe.
IDK what I would go with if I had to start all over.
.270 in 130gr @3060fps and tipped with Hornady GMX is good for elk. Every caliber has its “balanced “ bullet, and I think some of your grain choices in the calibers listed are not optimal in that regard.
Thank you for all of the work! I can't wait for next season :) All are excellent cartridges in their own right and would make a great choice for various game at various ranges.. I don't own a .280 AI yet.. But I've been considering one for the last few years, especially after hearing Ryan Muckenhirn (of Vortex) praise it multiple times.
7mm RM. higher BC, heavier bullet, more energy! 7 guy for life 🤷🏻♂️
Got to say the 280 AI for the wind and barrel length. Pop a suppressor on and you are good to go. I really want to say 6.5 but I would be worried about taking on an Elk at size and grain.
I wonder how much velocity would be lost going to an 16-18" barrel so that with the can it's at the original length
.308 shouldn't have been compared using 178gr. The most common is 150gr. For elk 165gr is the perfect balance rather the the heavier 178gr used to compare it with the other cartridges listed.
@Travis Landers that's true. For .270 the 130 or 150gr the most common. So ideally the 165gr .308 would be a better comparison. Either way a lot of good data was compiled. I have both calibers and I wouldn't hesitate taking game with either cartridge.
The .308 also only had a 20 inch barrel compared to some if the others as much as 25 inches
@Steve Wilder just noticed that. And most common bolt rifles are going to be at least 22 inch barrel which adds ~ 50 fps more velocity.
Great presentation, and awesome youtube series. You broke it down very well, discussing favorite cartridges is as risky as telling your wife you don't like her haircut. A few years ago I would have been torn, multiple friends have and love the. 300wsm. I own and have hunted with the 308, 270, and 7 mag and would have been hard pressed to pick the best all around. I bought a 280 ackley a couple years ago, no doubt in my mind it is the best all around hunting cartridge.
IF 6.5 prc gains popularity, I like it. Been shooting 7 mag for years and there is a ton of support. I'll stick with 7 mag for now.
I have to say that the vote and the actual availability of ammo where I live are not the same. I'm a short action advocate, period. 308 win, and 300 WSM are the choices for versatility. They hit hard because of their frontal diameter. I take elk with my 308 no problems. The 300 WSM is my next build, all ammo components are available. Not a lot of ammo for the 300 on the shelf, but I role my own. The powder is the same for it as most my other short actions, a huge advantage to the WSM. I see 308 ammo at every store I go to, but it's a moderate range cartridge. Recoil matters to me so I would brake the WSM and it will be fine. The final vote for me is the 300 WSM, but if ammo was a factor because you don't reload, go with the 308 Win.
On the left side of the bracket I'm taking 7mm RM (my favorite cartridge). The right side is a little harder for me, but I'm intrigued by the 280 AI especially after seeing the apples to apples data. And my winner is...7mm RM! I don't use a suppressor so barrel length isn't an issue and with my break the recoil is extremely manageable.
Also, 308 optimal gr. is 165gr out to 500yds +/-. For me my hunting cartridge is 165gr, target shooting is 175gr.
Awesome series though. Really enjoyed this!
I own both the .270 and 7mm REM mag, and I believe they should be the top two. I voted for the 7mm because it really is the best all around big game cartridge (IMO). Bring on all the latest and greatest, but I’ll stick with the 7 and the .270.
Just pick them all you can never have too many guns 👍but my pick is the 7mm rem mag 💪💪💪
Jim. Thanks so much! Awesome stuff. I have never shot one, but really want to get my hands on a .280 AI. On the other hand I would love to see what the chart looks like with 150 gr min and 180 gr max bullet weight.
To have one rifle for everything would be difficult. But it would be my 7mm rem mag.
It is well established that the recoil of a 7 rem mag is acceptable. With that being said, and all other criteria being “average” or better than average with the exception of barrel length, I see no way that 7 rem mag loses. Especially when you consider how prevalent the ammo and rifles are.
Let me explain why I don’t care about the barrel length. I totally understand the suppressor use argument. But looking at the other lengths listed here, they are all within 2-3 inches with a few exceptions. With a suppressor being 7 inches long, you’re going to end up with a ridiculous overall length regardless unless you go with 308 with it’s very short barrel. So if you want to hunt with a can, you’re basically condemning yourself to a super long overall length unless you want to give up power and range.
7rem mag for the win.
You can get 5-6 inch silencers now. If you got a 280ai with a 22" barrel your OAL barrel length would be 27"-28" Which is long but it's a lot better than 30". I'm setting up a 300 WSM with a 20" barrel and my OAL with silencer will be about 25" which is very reasonable.
If one has to take a 400+ yard shot on game, the length of the rifle is really not an issue, even with a suppressor. As for the 3xtra ounce or 2 between long and short action, are 2 sips of water going to end your hunt early? All of the bore sizes in the finals are close, so barrel profiles could be very close in weight. The 6.5 PRC's "wins" were marginal compared to the 7 mag and the recoil would be reduced on all with a suppressor. None would be good woods guns in bolt action with suppressors, unless we shorten all the barrels. 7 mag has the advantage of worldwide availability in both guns and ammo. Since 30-06 was eliminated, I give 7 mag 1st and 270 Win 2nd.
@@williamgaines9784 this is an excellent point. If we are talking suppressors and western hunting rifles it will generally be open spaces where the length of the rifles really won’t matter.
It’s clear to me. The 280 AI has no flaws. It isn’t the best at one particular category, but still excels at everything!
The sum is more than the total of its parts...
The flaws are: gun availability and ammo availability (for non-reloaders). Same issue with the 6.5 PRC. Those are my two top picks, but those are definitely "flaws" relative to the .308, 7mm, and .270.
Hard to find brass.and sub 7mm rem mag velocities are FLAWS.
Shot placement is key to hunting effectiveness… shooters ability to find ammo and rifles. Inherent accuracy and the 308 is all you need… skill is the final ingredient. Few other calibers offer the vast amount of bullet choices in such a handy cartridge in both semi auto and bolt guns even single shots and pistols. You can load the 308 with Heavy solids for big game or load it with light varmint rounds.
Awesome series and by chart 280AI is clearly the best “all around”. But for me the 7MM is number 1.
The .270 is my personal favorite and I have been hunting with it for almost 30 years. The .270 cartridge has been around 100 years and it's still competitive with the modern era. The .308 would be my second pick for price, availability of ammo, and its overall effectiveness within 400 yards. I'm not a wizard, but I would be willing to say that a large percentage of hunters (75%?) don't or won't shoot anything over 400 yards. I will have to say that I have been turned on to the 280 AI. I have not owened or shot the 280 AI, but I am definitely interested in trying it out after seeing this series. Hats off to your channel for putting together some great content!
I think your right. Other calibres are better on paper but at the end of the day, ammo availablity, price, range as well as how many manufacturers are chambering the round makes a MASSIVE difference. For me its a toss up between 308 and 270 as well. 270 better in the plains and 308 better for the woods.
I could only afford 1 hunting rifle so I bought a 7mm RM specifically so I could hunt everything with it, loading down for deer/Antelope (140 grain) or up for elk/bear (160-175). Unless you’re going to hunt Cape buffalo, sounds like you could go 280 AI, 7mm, or 300 w(s)m and be set up for life for everything from Antelope to Moose.
Edit: I would also add that a 7mm rem mag’s recoil is nothing compared to a 3” magnum Turkey load out of a 12 gauge. As an East coaster who grew up hunting deer and Turkey using a shotgun with slugs and magnum Turkey loads, a 7mm really doesn’t buck that hard in my opinion.
I voted 7mm rem mag, but I was torn. My main rifle is a 270 win which I got for a good deal when I bought it. I've read a bunch of people who have said that the 270 isn't ideal for elk. So I've debated these other calibers with myself for years, and I'm leaning toward the 7mm bullets for their higher bc bullet selection. I do appreciate the very good recoil of the 270, and my experience with the 270 which I admit is limited (2 big game animals a cow elk at 465, and a 4x4 mule deer buck at 400) has really been that it has killed just fine. My biggest issue with the .277 caliber bullets is the available bc of most bullets in the caliber are lower than I would like. The 6.8 western sounds great but I've not been able to convince myself that it is the answer I want to see where it goes. I am excited to see the 7mm prc that has been mentioned to see where that ends up it might become my choice.
I just bought my wife a 280AI about a week ago because it was the most balanced cartridge I could find that would take deer, elk, and bear without recoiling excessively. Looks like I did my research right. Great video, enjoyed the series keep up the good work.
The comment he made about the 7mm PRC got my attention. I didn't know that was coming. I have a 7mm Rem Mag and absolutely love it. Bought it as a teen and still have and shoot it over 30 years later.
Same here, bought my 7mm rem mag in Remington 700 bdl 30 years ago and the deer that have fallen to it's ever lethal bullets have been many. Would feel naked in the woods without it.
I’ve got go with the 280AI especially if you handload for it can do some impressive numbers if turned up with the right twist rate and barrel length.
7mm mag appears to be the best all around. A good quality muzzle break or suppressor and you remove alot of the recoil.
I’ve been searching for the next video in this series every day for the last 2+ weeks!!!
I'm in California so a suppressor is basically not an option, so for me that means the 7mm Rem Mag is the clear winner. Great series!
Out of all these, my vote goes to 300wsm with a 180 grain high bc well constructed bullet like the accubond. I have 3 of these cartridges and load for 4, 300wsm included.
I agree, a 180 grain would have been a better comparison.
The versatility of .308 is just hard to beat. If I am going to shoot elk at 400 or a little further I can load a 150g copper that will hold its weight and keep velocity, recoil is manageable, I can find ammo almost always, and practice ammo is cheap and easily reloaded. Not to mention you can work up amazing handloads for just about anything you want to do with it.
How is it versatile it only has has like 3 affective bullet weights. Handloads dont necessarily increase performance. Its only good qualities are man bitch recoil, barrel life and ammo availability. I load and shoot a lot of cartridges and that is the hard truth. 270 beats it 30.06 beats it 7mm08 beats it 280 beats it. 7x57 and 7x64 beats it. I would even choose a 260 rem over it.
@@jdg5682 ok
'...I think [the .308] just needed to be 10% more powerful...' -- Which leads right back to the .30-06 SPRG.
Load up with plentiful 155 grain match bullets from all that FTR experience for targets, then use 130 grain copper solids for less recoil.
Thanks for a great series!
I own 6 hunting rifles. 3 of them are 7 mag. Recoil is noticeable but no where near flinch inducing. One thing I’ll say is on deer if you use regular lead tip bullets and hit a shoulder you might as well throw that shoulder away. But I switched to bonded bullets and meat damage is a lot less. Long story short my pick is the 7mm mag.
I got to give it to the 308. With its availability, ability to kill most game in North America and almost every rifle company chambers it not to mention 20in barrels so you can use a supressor, 308 is my go to.
I have to vote for 300wsm. The only argument against it is it has a heavy recoil and so it isn't a great PRS caliber. But with a big muzzle break it is manageable for a PRS match.
If your going to become more involved in PRS your going to build a more specific gun.
Also I'm writing in 7 saum. I like short actions, it is elk capable and people shoot it in PRS.
Oh my, how many times have I heard this, read about this and tried to settle arguments about it? Too many!
I am 68 and have had guns in my hands since I was eight years old (as a child, military service, law enforcement, private contractor, target and hunting).
For hunting I believe in simplicity and effectiveness of the round (not a magnum guy) I use the 30-06 case anytime I can.
25-06 with 100 grain bullet, 270 with 140 grain bullet, 30-06 with 180 grain bullet and am a firm believer in HUNTING not long range shooting.
PRACTICE shooting your gun at different ranges, know your and your guns limitations based on that practice and become proficient out to 400 yards.
And remember when guys start regurgitating this subject (and they will) "You can't fix the NUT behind the BUTT"!!!
Ammo availability on MidwayUSA right now. 6.5 PRC zero available; 7mm Rem Mag zero available; 280 AI zero available; 300 WSM three available; .270 six available; .308 forty-eight available. So if ability to buy the ammo is taken into consideration it's hands down .308
Definitely 7mm mag or 300wsm. I'm not a fan of recoil either but elk are tough and deserve the most ethical tools for the job. I currently use a 7mm mag and love it but if I were to build a custom I'd go for the 300wsm for the short action and barrel length reasons. 280 wouldn't be a bad choice but ammo cost more than the 7mag and 300wsm. Why pay more to get less....
I'm having trouble picking 308 vs 270. Both are fantastic. I think, in th end, 270 is the better hunting round, but 308 is better for everything else. If I had to pick, I would day 308 is the overall winner.
For sure 308 ammo can be had all day as well, if youre looking at .270 diameter cartridges you should get the 6.8, does everything the .270 does but better and in a shorter action. There’s no reason to get .270 over the 6.8 nowadays since I’ve found 6.8 ammo much easier to find then .270
@@Mountain-Man27 It's funny you say that because that argument is why the .300 WSM beat the .30-06 earlier in the series. The 6.8 might have won the whole thing, but the argument didn't work twice and the .270 beat the 6.8 in their video. You'd think it would have ended up .30-06 and .270 or .300 WSM and 6.8 in the finale, but somehow the vote went wonky.
Just get 30-06 instead. It can anything the 270 or 308 can do, especially if you reload, and some things neither can do. They're all great cartridges, though.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 but it can’t do what the 6.8 can at distance, still more than enough for the average hunter though.
@@j.r.6271 honestly I think it’s just a popularity contest, people just defend whatever they own.
with the options left i gotta give the nod to the 308, it just works and you can get the ammo everywhere, there is enough ammo options and grain weights for anything on the continent.. its sufficent diameter to make nice large wound channels but easy on the shoulder
In 1969 in BCT, I was introduced and trained to the M-14 and the .308. It just imprinted into my brain although it took a while to get used to the recoil (I weighed 118lbs.). On the plus side I qualified expert and consistently hit targets at 500 yards. In Vietnam, I had a hard time hitting distance targets at 300 yards + with the M-16 and the .556. By a quirk of fate, I was given a fully automatic M-14 and I became the platoon marksman (not a sniper). I could consistently perform the same as I did in Basic even in the terrible humidity. I twice hit targets at 750 yards, once without a barrel rest and once with the bipod. So of course, I vote for the .308. I have hunted deer and elk in Central Utah and have always killed my targets when shooting under 500 yards.
7mm Rem mag for availability, but all are great choices! However, I feel the 6.8Western got cheated out for what it really is and would have been the next top contender in this chart but unfortunately it was taken out ONLY because the .270 has more history and people haven't caught on to the 6.8w yet.
Love em' all but the 7 mag hands down for the best and most capable all around cartridge. Can't believe the short mag beat out the 300 Win mag but here we are.
yup, 300 win mag should be here
All good cartridges and I love my 270s and 308's but winner is 7mm remington mag. Ammo most time is plentiful, low recoil for a magnum. You and load light or heavier bullets. It's a tried and true extremely versatile cartridge.
I have owned every caliber that made the final round. I currently use a 6.5 PRC and a 300WSM. But if I had to choose just one? It is 280AI. The last four rifles I have purchased for my boys, who get one rifle, are all 280AI. My son who lives in Utah came home to Alberta last fall for a long overdue hunt. He dropped a mature muley buck and a bull moose both at over 250 yards. Moose took three steps, the buck dropped in his tracks. Light rifle, low recoil, high confidence. Look at the chart: all white. It does everything well.
The 308 and 300wsm you were running heavy bullets so recoil, and max effectiveness were off. The 308 in the 150, to 168 grain can easily take an elk past 400. Heck ive seen a few taken at 700+ and 900+ just on TH-cam amd both dropped on the spot. All around best round would be 308 for hunting and target shooting in my opinion. I have used mine for exactly that for almost 30 years. If i need more i use the 300win mag.
Came here to say the same thing… 178 is pretty hefty for .308 and there’d be a lot less red on the chart if it was loaded with a 150.
@@ratherbefishing4225 Same with the 300wsm, if it was a 180 grain their would be lots more green.
Seems to me the trend towards high-BC heavy-for-cal bullets isn’t always a good thing. I’ve seen it multiple times when a guy who hasn’t fired 100 rounds of Center fire in the last ten years goes and buys a nice new rifle in .300 RUM or 28 Nosler and wants to “be able to shoot 600-700 yards”. Grabs a box of ammo with bullets so heavy it has the trajectory of a .308 out to 400+ and somehow thinks he’s better off. For my money you’re better off first learning to shoot with a round that’s more manageable in terms of both cost and recoil. But to each his own.
@@ratherbefishing4225 For me as a hunter, BC doesnt mean much to me really. I think of what is the bullet going to do at this distance. Did i use the right weight to effectivly dispatch the animal with out destroying to much meat. I hunt ethical distances under 300yards and mostly well under 200yards 99 percent of the time. I like to get close. To much can happen at long distnce shooting. People forget flight time to the animal and it can take a half a step and go from heart and lung shot to a gut shot or miss. If i ever need or want to hunt at longer ranges then I'll practice my drop at that distance or distances that i need to learn. 308 class bullets fill this need because they have the most selection in bullet weights from around 110gr to 240gr i think, dont quote me. That is a huge range! So no matter if i pick a 308win, 30-06, 300wsm, or a 300 win mag i can load or buy off the shelf all these same rounds in everyone of these calibers. No other bullet class can touch it in hunting versatility. That is why 308win is the average Joes hunting gun choice, especially if he could only choose one. That and ammo is always available and cheap.
A lot of these numbers are affected by bullet choice. If you choose a 308 with a 150gr bullet, it will have a different velocity, power and trajectory than a 180 gr bullet. Then you have the different manufacturers. Hornady, Berger, Sierra and Federal all have different BC numbers for their top of the line hunting bullets of all weights. Furthermore, bullet design can affect how the bullet performs at different velocities. So a mono-core bullet needs a higher velocity for reliable expansion than a jacketed lead bullet with a ballistic tip. So that 308 might gain more effective range with a different round or it might lose some effective range. The same goes for all the rounds.
Which is why he compared with precision hunter across the board. The Precision Hunters are all loaded by Hornady specifically get the best range and performance out of their respective cartridges. Which means that BC vs velocity is optimized.
I won’t use the Precision Hunter ammo anymore because terminally I’ve found it lacking in performance, but for a ballistics comparison just for the sake of finding a way to control the ammo variable and really showcase the best numbers widely achievable for each cartridge, I think Precision Hunter is the best choice.
7mm mag is the best for the west.
Can take anything in Colorado.
Even with a light weight hunting rifle I can drop a couple boxes of ammo and no recoil flinch. Only issue I have is 24" barrel is a bit long getting through the trees.
Just went to South Africa in Aug 2021. We shot 17 Antelope with a 6.5 PRC running a 156 EOL handload at 3040fps. All 1 shot kills on everything including Sable and Blue Wildebeest. Longest shots were on Blesbok, 495 and 500 yards. Also killed and Eland with 2 shots at 500 yards. If I'd of had a bonded bullet would have likely been 1 shot.
I've had a friend take down a Elk with the 270. At about 200 yards and for me also it's just seems to be the best or at least In the top 3
7mm REM Mag is without question the best all around cartridge.
Totally agree. But if we are taking a slight step up.. I’m taking my 338 win mag all day. You can load 185 grain CX bullets or 200 grain ttsx. You get 3,000-3,200 fps with that 338 win mag and it produces something ridiculous like 4,200 ft lbs of energy. It will knock over anything.
I have a 30-06, and just picked up a 6.5 PRC in December that I'm excited to start shooting. Also just got 5 boxes of Federal ammo. Up until now I've also had a very hard time finding it. That being said, with so many 6.5 PRC rifles flying off the shelves you'd think that the ammo manufacturers will catch on at some point. As far as the killing power goes, bullet selection/construction is important. The frontal area differences are pretty minimal, especially considering the amount of speed and energy the prc carries down range.
As a hunter in Maine, I use the .308 Winchester for hunting. Several reasons:
1) readily available ammo, not only hunting ammo, but surplus 7.62x51 ball ammo just for practice and fun at the range.
2) very effective on the critters I'm hunting for. (whitetail deer)
3) very effective within my personal maximum range that I will attempt to harvest an animal from.
For those reasons, the .308 Winchester has my current vote. But things may change in the future, such as maybe I will have improved my skills enough that I may extend my personal maximum range, or maybe I might finally hunt moose, or who knows how things will change.
Excellent video. 👍You gave us the facts in a clear and engaging manner without any BS or hype. I enjoyed watching for this reason.
I own a 308 and a 270 and love them both. I shot a 7mm mag many years ago as a teenager. Scoped myself and left a cut/scar over my eye. But I want to give it another shot and see how I feel about it. Actually been jonsing for a 7mm mag but have put the brakes in gun purchases for a while. 😊 I live out west and hunt elk and think it might be the overall winner for hunting out here. One consideration though is the average bullet weight for factory rounds. With the 7mm mag you're often dealing with 140-150 grain projectiles in factory fodder. Its hard to beat the 308 and 270 for all of your criteria. I think with the right load the 308 can do most anything you'd need it for. Check out the Norma Bondstrike in 308 with a BC of .615. Starting at 2625 fps it stays above 2000 fps out to 450 yards and above 1500 ft pounds to 500 yards. 308 is so versatile. The 7mm mag is probably not the ideal fun gun to shoot at the range because of recoil and cost of ammo. I'll be interested to see what caliber comes out on top.
I like the 7mm rem mag for my favorite cartridge.
But seeing the chart the 6.5PRC & 280 AI are looking pretty damn good‼️
The first shot I ever fired on the African continent was 175 yards at a quartering blue wildebeest. A 140 gr. A-Frame from a .270 Win. absolutely crushed the wildebeest, dropped him in his tracks. My PH had lobbied for my using the .300 Win Mag I had brought along on that first safari, but was at least partially converted by that first devastating shot. I always admired the extraordinarily eloquent, John Kingsley-Heath and his words concerning Americans and their fascination with distinguishing minute dissimilarities between similar cartridges, “There is very little difference in killing power between a 6mm (.243) and a .375 H&H and absolutely none between a 30-06 and a 7mm Remington Magnum.” But it is entertaining to dissect the particulars. Each of these calibers is quite capable but it would be hard to argue against the .300 WSM on game including Elk at anything beyond moderate range. Shot placement and bullet construction being more critical than any other variable.
Great series, this was a lot of fun to watch.
300 wsm. Mine doesn’t kick near as hard as you are projecting. Not sure how the numbers are calculated but I have a 7 mag that gives me a headache and a bruised shoulder every time I shoot it and my 300 wsm doesn’t. Although maybe not a recreational weekend shooter rifle, my vote goes to 300 wsm.
I totally agree some of these people need to expand their Horizons and shoot the 45/ 70 so they won't Flinch when the 300 Winchester short mag
What rifle? I was almost set on the Savage ultralite in a 300 wsm but I'm seeing a lot of other channels mentioning it as a mule for recoil also. And it being only 6lb, concerned it might be a big recoil.
Looking at a possible elk hunt in NM if drawn but would primarily be used for whitetail. Torn between a 270 vs 300 wsm. Since it'll be used for hunting only, I'm not going to worry about recoil during the hunt but for practicing, wonder if it kicks enough to make you flinch more.
@@WheelchairLiving1 my rifle is a custom built in 300 wsm with a wood stock. I don’t have an exact figure on weight but she’s not what you would call light weight. Maybe 8-9 lbs. if your primary critters you go after are white tail get a 270. A 270 works great on elk. I live in New Mexico and my wife and I both harvested elk last year with our 6.5 creedmoors. The reason I go so light weight is meat waste is much less with a 6.5 creedmoor than the 300 wsm. And the 6.5 creedmoor works phenomenally. My wife’s elk was 295 yards complete pass through mine was about 125 complete pass through neither went more than 10 yards after being hit with 120 grain Barnes bullets. But we take standing shots and are confident with our shot placement. That is key, but a 300 wsm you can virtually hit them anywhere and you will find them. I don’t condone bad shots but it happens and I’ve recovered gut shot and rear quarter shot elk with the 300 wsm and I’ve seen elk lost with other calibers with bad shots.
@@josephchavez8280 yea I'm kind of leaning 270 again. I'm always careful about taking a good clean shot. Never been one to focus on the bigger calibers but always hear mixed opinions on elk and having never hunted them, want to make a good choice. Thanks for the input.
@@WheelchairLiving1 elk are tough critters for sure but a well placed shot is more important than numbers on a chart. I have harvested many mule deer and elk with a 308 300 wsm and my first one last year with a 6.5 creedmoor. The most important advice you need to worry about is shooting what you have well. With that being said I had a 7mm mag that kicked the snot right out of my nose and I got rid of it. It was a Remington 700 lr heavy barrel heavy rifle. I didn’t enjoy that rifle at all and the 300 wsm does kick worse than a 6.5 cm and 308 but it’s not unbearable like that 7mm mag I had and sold. Just my honest opinion I don’t have data to backup my claims just what I felt.
I am a beginner. I want something capable of taking an elk, but I need a lot of practice. .270
Get a coach too. We all can shoot better but it is hard to see our own mistakes sometimes. Having an experienced long distance shoot critiquing your form will help you improve much faster and tell you watch you need to practice.
Andrew, take it from someone hunting elk for 46 years. .270 is capable but not a go to for elk. Get you a 7mm REM Mag and never look back or if you really want the actual best elk cartridge on the planet, get you a 300 Weatherby. The 7RM though is easy to shoot and you can always find ammo, even now at a reasonable price. Go with a 140gr bullet to get good velocity, energy, and range.
Awesome video. Your point about finding the best cartridge that is a balance is a tough one. I just watched a series from “hopeful remnant” that put a whole bunch of cartridges through some interesting criteria where he said that efficiency was the most important thing and then thousand yard shoot ability and hunting ability were both equally as important. People should check his series out to because he tries to give a impartial review and decision. Cartridge comparisons are always the bread and butter of these kind of videos
7mm rem mag…. When the tikka t3’s first came out I bought one when I was 16. Wanted something I could kill elk with at 600yrds but also something with light enough bullet weights for deer. At Walmart you can buy 140&175 gr weights.