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The "woke community manager" refers to the CM handling their steam community page and was issued to them by their publisher Plaion. They made a recent addition to their Rules which was basically a copy paste from the general steam TOS but people claimed it was proof they went "completly woke" as they now included rules banning homophobia/transphobia (and did not went out of their way to add rules against heterophobia, i guess) Ah, you read it as well.
@@bulldowozer5858 people complaining about woke are bigots who hate being called out on it. its the same thing if you call a stupid person, stupid. only stupid people get insulted by this because they feel it may be true.
It's real Metatron, I appreciate you trying to be fair but brother they bent the knee. They know it won't meet diversity reqs to get nominated anyways and still bent the knee. WE boycotting, and he already got preorders and most won't hear till it's too late You being a historian in your heart know Mali wasn't a kingdom and know there weren't them traveling like other merchants like others. You know the black guy wasn't there. In another generation the west will think this is normal. You need to talk of this more this has us more mad then the gay stuff
You know ever since the Weimer Rep. that Europe has been forced to accept degeneracy. WE are sick of it, this has to stop and we were so close. The fact that they hid it is 100000x worse. Thank God for the Saudi Arabians calling this out. They pandered and now people can't let their kids play the game. I'm so sick of this, it normalized it and that's the problem
I like the part where they recorded local, natural forest ambience and then ornithologists told them that they had captured birds that didn't live there in the early 15th century so they fixed the _audio_ to be period accurate. I didn't know they were bird racists. ;)
In my home city of Příbram in Czech republic, having like 40 000 inhabitants I have seen 2 black people living there for a time in my 25+ years living there. And those black people were there to play football fore their team, they never had permanent residence.
Yep and there was no "Kingdom" of Mali, they didn't have civilization like the west and middle east did. This is more American white saviors trying to gas up black folks. As a German American I am used to having my ethnicity be disrespected and downplayed or removed. But to have this happen from my own is beyond disheartening. WE are done with this. North Africa isn't sub-Saharan Metatron stop lying Metatron. This game just crashed.
I wouldn't say that. I say libertarians or classic liberals are most honest about history than lets say conservatives, or modern liberals are. If you want an honest take on history listen to a classic liberal or a libertarian, neither fit in the modern political spectrum of conservatism or modern liberalism. Well counting where you live. Mostly because classic liberal values often go against the "State's" interest or "Religous" interest or "Progressive" Interest and god forbid the "Nationalist" interest. Most of the "ism" interest as well which are too collectivist minded. There is a reason so much of both left/right hate libertarians or classic liberals. lol
Honestly I think that's just fanatics on one side trying to defame fanatics on the other while trying to manifest their world view. Confirmation bias and ignorance as a combination basically. I've also heard people say it isn't historically accurate because there are gay men and a non white person. Historical revisionism doesn't just take place on one side, it's just been more often seen on the left but generally it's a thing that lives on the fringes. Also the US-influenced bipartisan left / right scale leaves out a lot of political flavours that don't align to that one-dimensional scale.
When playing the first game, I vaguely recall a dialogue option (when speaking to that drunkard priest) about Henry’s thoughts on religion. As an atheist, I was dumbfounded for a moment that there wasn’t an “atheist option” to voice your non belief. After a couple of seconds of thought, I realized that not having an atheist option is simply historically accurate. Nearly every person in this society would’ve been raised Christian and even if the occasional person was atheist, they most likely would’ve kept it secret, as I can’t imagine the consequences of revealing such being very good. This is not Skyrim. You are not inserting yourself into a fantastical world. You are playing a fictionalized character in a historical world and should this make the choices someone like that would’ve made.
Yeah, it seems like Henry's religious views can either be more conservative or progressive depending on your choices, but he never outright says he's athiest. That doesn't stop him from being heretical, though, like if you choose to help the Waldensians evade capture
There were a few quests that were very un christian but yknow it worked because henry had a choice whether to participate in a pagan ritual or turn in a family for their unchristian beliefs or let them go and then there's the sermon he can do for the priest in uhzits or some town where he can be more radical or or orthodox or just wing it randomly.
Yeah, I swore to never preorder, so even if I buy an Early Access or Alpha/Beta version of the game, I at least know what there is to the game and I can see if I like it before I pay. I expect KD:C2 to be good, but developers and community managers shouldn't get in arguments online as it almost always is just a bad look.
There are some games I've preordered and thinking it was a good idea and still do. Small independents especially may need the funding early on to actually bring the game to light. That said I'm not preordering things from any of the big companies at the current time.
@@defectiveindustriesalso so many games are buggy at launch. Imagine paying a premium price to be a beta tester. Can people not wait a month when a new game comes out? What do they think will happen if they don't play right away?
we brought a camel to Czechia after winning the battle in one coastal city that is super diverse. it was so popular that we still have him on a coat of arms of the most popular Czech beers (in Czechia at least). it happened during the Hussite wars and it is kinda fun long story about it
I'm currently studying history, do you know of any sources or any literature about it? I would love to write a paper on the story as I was already planning on eventually doing a paper on Hussite wars and Jan Žižka. Cheers
@IncontenentiaButtux yea my prefered sources of that period bohemia are: františek šmahel husitská revoluce and any of the work from Petr Čornej could be useful to you. I am not sure how well they are translated if it is not a large study you should do good with just a single book by Petr Čornej. specifically, I would recommend Jan Žižka or Husitská revoluce: Stručná historie
@IncontenentiaButtuxJan Žižka by Petr Čornej Is definetly best book you can get. It is life's work of one of thé best czech historian. But unfortunetly i dont know if there is english translation.
Does not seem like it was done genuinely, Henry is a straight protagonist with multiple female romances in the first game. He is an established character that is now being changed for an optional gay romance? You would never see a straight romance for an already established gay character
all his female romances are optional and not part of main quest, basicly in main quest Henry deoesnt fck cuz he has no tiem for that, he spent few weeks in bed recovering, thne he goes to his lord tel him he lost sword is sent to training, while in training joins investigation of Neuhof masacre, cuz there coudl have been guy who stole the sword, all things which happen to henry from him going to his lord till ending happens in few weeks just to bring in some time frame. So if you play jsut main quest and dont go drinking with Godwin you have no chance fck any girl, goat or pie. And also if you as player decide not to get bath with extra help, you are rewarded with virgin achievement. So I can very likely see this virgin sexualy unexperienced version of henry be basis for KCD2 since we cant transfer our molded Henry from KCD1. Also dont expect gays being stoned to death or burned on spike etc. Mostly they were sent to monasteries etc to repent and serve god. But what should have happened in KCD1 is Henry getting executed for fckign married noble lady(even if it was her coming to him) escpecialy him at that time being peasant. This is one thing I super dislike on KCD, I dont mind gays cuz they existed its nothing new since ancient times, but peasant touching noble lady and married noble lady with consequences this is something for wwich many died even tho they were slaves or serfs doing it under order, also those ladies were lucky if they didnt share same fate and instead were sent to monastery. Women in those times wer more like thing you owned or commodity to trade(for fathers) especialy noble ones, at least this part was shown in woman's lot dlc.
If anything knowing Henry it'll probably be an accidental gay cutscenes like some crossdressing noble. Since Henry was never established as gay or able to be it'd be hard to see Henry explicitly go and romance someone knowing they are male.
@ Your first paragraph was rendered invalid by Warhorse in one of the trailers for KCD2 when they called Henry a “Lover” (as in he has loved before) and showed him kissing a girl. Virgin Henry is not the one they intend for us to get. Your second paragraph is interesting because it revolves around your first one being false, as in Henry wasn’t a virgin and did sleep with Lady Stephanie. That’s not a big problem anyway since I’m sure there were instances of servants sleeping with Ladies and the secret never getting out (kinda lame that they implied the entire province knew about it in Madonna of Sasau though).
I dunno, i dont agree with the commander shepherd comparison, I dont think Henry = Shep, Shep is a customizable character, his look, his background and to some extent his personality is more in your hands, Henry is not, you cant change how he looks, you cant change how he was raised, and even with dialogue choices hes still gunna reply and talk like hes Henry even if you make him do un henry things, so his sudden interest in dick and or man ass is entirely developer choice and players are well within their rights to ask, why now and not 6 years ago? Vavra would likely reply "he wants the game to be more RPGish and give players more choice" which is fair enough, but dont be shocked when people still dont like it cause you didnt feel that way about it in the first game or you would have done it there first. It puts people off because of that, I genuinely think it would have played out differently if KCD2 had a new character or a player made one, there would still be those who would just hate a gay scene at all, theres also people the "suddenly this character is gay" "suddenly theres a black guy" correct or not, it gives off, Thors a women now vibes for these people changes for the sake of a larger audience are not always positive and takes away from the immersion or integrity of the source for others.
@@billybatts8283 At least hes still a customizable character tho, I think thats a big reason why people dont really mind everyones got a different shep, Henry aint that, Henry is Henry.
That's the sus thing for me. Henry has a personality. He's not just some speechless character like Tav from BG3. Something went on, and ofc, that makes me disappointed in the devs. Shame. The actors were really nice guys too.
the everything is far right comment is something TIKhistory has pointed out, and this methodology goes all the way back to the early 20th Century. His "What is Fascism?" video where he reads Orwell's essay "What is Fascism?" He points out how the word was used for everything under the son. Issue is so has the word "Far Right." Good example in one of his videos he pointed out a historian who made a comment in the 1980s who called the Soviet Union Far Right.
As much as I am interested in the KCD, I felt it is weird to have a Moor Merc healer within Sigismund's ranks, THE Sigismund. If it was some random Bohemian Lord Radzig, or Divish is more believable. Sigismund from his profile and history, hates Muslims with a burning passion due to him being taken as a hostage by the Ottomans during his youth and had Hungary humilated by them once. Later in life, he formed a Order of Knights witg Dracula, yes the Dracula fron Transyvanlia to revive the Crusades against the Ottomans. Dracula himself was a Christian Zealot with a intense hatred towards the Turks and like Sigismund, had been taken hostage once by them, during his Childhood. And Sigismund made the Order during the time when the Christendom's unity is cracking, and the ethusiasm for the Crusades were near dead. Yet he got the Romanians and even the French to participate in the Crusade, which eventually lead to the catastrophic defeat in the Battle of Nicopolis, as the glory hungry French Knights ignored orders and charged ahead recklessly, hence they were decimated by the Turks. Later, during the Hussite Wars, Sigismund was the main advocate to call on another crusade against the Hussites, only to fail again. Hence, it is pretty hard for a freelancing moor, much more a physican, a position of great importance to be hire by Sigismund. Not saying Sigismund is like the painter, but this is comparable if the Austrian Painter keeping a Personal Jewish Doctor in WW2. What's stopping the Moor to slip some poison into Sigi's soup because he was paid better by the Turks or because of his devotion to the Islamic Faith against one of their biggest enemies at the time? Edit: Misinfo, not Dracula/Vlad III but his father Vlad II, tho still doesn't take away from my point much
i found you via your "academy" channel and only recently found out you even have a "main" channel (how do you even make so many videos? you seem to physically have more hours in a day than even exist), but i just want to say it's great to hear sane and balanced takes in this madhouse we call the modern world
I will wait for reviews. Not from game journalists though.;) Conerning the lgbtq+ stuff, since Henry is a predetermined character, like Geralt in the WItcher, turning him bisexual now would be really weird. Wouldn't mind it if the main character would be a newly created character function as our avatar. Since he here we have a blank sheet, everyone can (ideally) fill out the way they like it. But turning an establised character retrospectively bisexual feels just wrong.
I'm just finding out about the Malian king being in the game essentially as a mercenary for hire at the behest of Sigismund... It feels weird and very frickin' forced to me. Mali is extremely far from Bohemia. The Malians were in a state of slow decline due to foreign raiders and civil wars throughout the 15th century. They were also an Islamic kingdom, and to me a Muslim king being subservient to a Christian king to the point where he musters an army and undergoes a pilgrimage greater than that of his ancestors pilgrimage to Mecca just to serve as a mercenary just doesn't feel plausible to me in the slightest.
Well, the silk road is relevant in kcd2s geography, and its not a king if i remember correctly, either way, its one black guy, id understand your critisicm if it was like 15% of the population was black but its a foreign dude looking to make money through trade
Not a king and there's a lot more forced things in the game, no peasant would learn as many skills, climb the social ladder as quickly, meet as many important people and kill as many Cumans as Henry. Single black person is possible, though unlikely, but if it displays how the medieval europeans would react and leads to fun narratives that are handled authentically, it's fine..
during the Middle Ages capital punishment for homosexuals was the case when they were rapists. While its realistic to have Henery have the option to be gay it is also realistic for him to be a rapist. I think the game should involve a quest line where you rape everyone in the game and get the tittle "Henry the buggerer"
So for more context on this (this will be a long post). Yes Henry has a confirmed gay romance, we don't know with who (I hope it's not Hans Capon) but it is there as confirmed in a thread by Grummz, in which he had a discussion a someone who has played and beaten KCD2. A substantial portion of the backlash is due to awful PR and Vavra himself. So the first thing is, they did not want to admit there was gay romance, being very cagey and elusive when posting about this. Obviously it came across as them trying to hide it, knowing it's not a popular aspect. It's not hard to say yes there is a gay romance option without going into spoilers if you're confident in it. Yes, Vavra has called people n*zi's for calling him out, and no this isn't just that one guy. He ran away to Facebook to post it (you can find the post on google by searching Vavra facebook n*zi post), calling everyone n*zi's in a blanket post. Obviously this didn't go down well, and *is* leftist rhetoric. Vavra is also now attacking other youtube commentators, most notable is Rev Says Desu, which is very hypocritical in that it's clear Vavra never watched Rev's video (it was mostly positive), and this comes 2 weeks after Vavra calling out other game devs for attacking youtubers such as Critical Drinker. The Official KCD2 account (not Vavra) was also caught hiding replies on X/Twitter, again not a good look. It's extremely easy to see that adding a gay romance option when Henry had 0 homosexual inclinations in the first game, and then hiding behind statements such as "there were gay people in the first game", is incredibly disingenuous and a non sequitur. Many people also like to bring up that Henry is not a custom character, and is more along the lines of Geralt from The Witcher, a defined character that you can influence, and that a lot of people saying this change is fine for KCD2 would be calling for blood if Geralt was given gay romance options in The Witcher 3 (rightfully so in my opinion) as it would be incredibly forced (as it feels like it is in KCD2). You can also add there would be a major meltdown in any fandom if a prominent character was suddenly confirmed to have bisexual inclinations, especially if it was a gay character turning bi, again rightfully so in my opinion. This isn't even touching on the draconian Steam Code of Conduct which appeared as this controversy picked up steam, and has since never been addressed. You can see the code of conduct on KCD2's Steam discussion page, and it's absolutely awful. Watching this entire drama unfold has convinced me not to buy the game. The entire way the gay romance has seemingly been slipped into the game, which honestly does feel like it's cow towing to left wingers/"journalists", and the actions by the devs have convinced me not to support the studio in its current form, and I say this as someone who loved and defended KCD1.
The Draconian code of conduct in question: Don't be racist Don't be sexist Don't be homophobic Don't spread neo-nazi ideology I can see why you'd have a problem with it, yes...
I feel you man. The moment they compromise the accuracy of the game and retcon stuff in order to pander, they lost what made the first game special. Because I certanly didn't play it for the gameplay experience
@@blooperman1997 It's not the code of conduct that was the problem, it's that it came right after the controversy started. It also included restrictions on historical discussions of religion and politics, which are naturally big topics of discussion for a KCD2 forum. Essentially, it's not the content, it's the timing.
The problem is that they retconned Henry to be bisexual in this game. The gay romance in KCD2 involves Henry, the main character, and another male. In the first game, there was a homosexual character, Istvan Toth, and his lover, but this wasn’t super obvious until the lover accidentally revealed it in the heat of the moment. Even so, if you didn’t pay attention to the plot, you could have easily missed it. It didn’t feel forced and was handled appropriately. However, retconning Henry to be bisexual is absurd. Even if it’s "optional," that doesn’t matter-it’s now canon that Henry is bisexual.
Would be based if they released the game like this then patched the romance option out of the game something like "we said the game would have diversity at launch, not that it would stay that way!" Sort of thing.
No it's not. That's like saying it's canon that the lone Wanderer blew up megaton in Fallout 3. THE DESCISION IS UP TO YOU! HE'S NOT GAY IF YOU CHOOSE THE WOMEN INSTEAD! YOUR HENRY, THE ONE THE BELONGS TO YOU, WILL BE STR8!
As this CEO once said, now after the success of the first game, they can make the game like they always wanted and this also includes as it seems this stuff. I think he always wanted this in the game some form.
Games have been hiding the "message" recently though. They say its just a normal adventure then 3 hours in a half black half unicorn ogre is trying to date you.
Well I am, and so are most people. So suck it. It's optional anyway. Even in the first game it was optional. But, you guys only walk out of shadows like fucking cockroaches when it's an optional queer romance in a game that you have to say "wElL aCtuAlLY I DoNT lIkE rOmanCeS in My GaMes".
I like it being a thing. It's a normal part of life and the lack of romance would somewhat break immersion for me as it would feel artificial cutting that part of daily life out but keeping the rest. It grounds the character in the world more imo. Especially when the game is 18+ anyway there's no reason not to include the option in an open world simulator RPG. I'm role playing as Henry and I wouldn't want to stay alone in the world nor stay a virgin for that matter, so I want my Henry to have a partner to come back to and brighten his day.
He can still be straight, you don't have to choose the gay option whenever it shows up. I understand why it might be hard for you to pass up on those choices when they appear.
the line "you will not do and see anything you don't want" well it depends. what if i want to get all achievements in the game but i'd have to have the special time with a man for an achievement? i'll have to atleast initiate something i absolutely do not want.
Stop being so sensitive. Seriously, "I have to initiate something I absolutely do not want"-if you have the time to get all achievements in a game (what a massive waste of your time), you'll be doing a lot of quests and things you don't actually want to do. Initiating a gay romance and skipping most of the scenes will hardly be the worst part of your achievement hunt lol
The Musa thing is the main thing I take issue with. I did try to find records of any islamic scholar visiting Bohemia during the period, and can't find any. The closest thing was Ibrahim Ibn Uaqub vising Prague in ~961, but that is centuries off aside from other issues. Likewise there is an Islamic scholar in the papal states during the correct time, but he also never goes to Bohemia. I ain't a scholar, but I did get help from my friend who teaches Anthropology and he couldn't find anything either yet. Unless KCD has a source which I don't have and they also just refuse to share, there doesn't seem to be much of a basis of having a random African scholar in the game. I am more than happy to change that opinion if someone can provide a singular source, but no where I inquired has been able too.
I guess if it isn't clear, the Musa thing is so far seemingly the example of them explicitly choosing to do modern politics representation without their being any justification. If they really wanted to include a random black guy, they should've had him be attached to a Venetian merchant as we know there are black men in Venice at this point of time. Even if there isn't a record of that occurring in the city the game takes place in, that is more plausible than just a random famous black scholar just happening to be in the area using a long Rube Goldberg-esque reasoning.
What Vavra said is that Musa is not historical, but he is not implausible either. Despite the fact that we have no surviving record of a Bohemian seeing a black African until the 1490s (in Portugal), there are after all many gaps in the historical record and I think storytellers are entitled to fill in the gaps as long as they do so in ways consistent with what we do know. And we do know that the Malian Empire had contacts with the Ottoman world (the king Mansa Musa visited Cairo in the 14th centurty), and the idea that a doctor or scholar from Timbuktu would travel to the Sultan's court is certainly not implausible. Now, joining Sigismund's entourage is a bit more of a problem (as a Muslim, not as a black man), especially since Sigi's own father the Emperor Charles had forbidden Muslims to enter the Empire. But then again, Sigi was not big on obeying rules, and we know he did have diplomatic contacts with the Ottomans
@@bewawolf19 "they should've had him be attached to a Venetian merchant as we know there are black men in Venice at this point of time." It's really too early for that; 100 years later, certainly, but not really until the Portuguese had opened up the Atlantic seaways to the Gold Coast. Previously, about the only black Africans to be found north of the Sahara were in the Islamic world and came north via Alexandria
There's no record of a bastard son of Radzig Kobyla either but here we are, playing as Henry aren't we? It's not just about historical records being present or not, it's also about plausibility and interesting interactions in the game from a story perspective.
They're writing a game, not recreating history. As the disclaimer goes, it's a work of fiction and any resemblance to real life people living or dead entirely coincidental. The question therefore is not whether an Islamic scholar ever visited Bohemia in the 15th century, it's whether one feasibly could have, and if so how that would be likely to play out.
I don't get why they suddenly give Henry an option to be gay. he was a normal guy in the first game, and showed no hints of homosexual attraction or anything. So putting in a gay romance option for him just reeks of them giving in to the pressure. They certainly didn't feel the need to include such a thing in the previous game, so what changed now? If instead of henry you played a custom character you created on your own, then having a gay romance option would be understandable. But Henry is a character whose identity is already established.
Putting Henry in a situation where he, ergo we, interact with a gay person is perfectly fine. Why? Cause that tends to happen in real life. (Of course, if you actually go outside and interact with people in different places). This whole aversion to people's sexual preferences is childish.
Because it's an RPG and gives players more choices and ways to express themselves. Plus in medeival context it can make for an interesnting story, same with the black guy being there
Theres nothing to suggest Henry will have an option to be gay.. even if he did you could already do a pig in the first one when you take "drugs" so doing something with a man isnt that much of a stretch. Either way I find it funny anyone here is willing to consider the Saudi Arabia as some kind of moral compass (even though the game wasnt even banned anyway....)
The gay antagonist he mentions is one of the main antagonists, actually. I forgot their name and I forgot how you figure that out, actually at the time I thought they were throwing insults at him to call him gay because that's what they do, but people do say he was. The monk in the monastery isn't an antagonist at all imo.
The monk in the monastery isn't an antagonist. The speculation ot he main antagonist being gay is they believed they captured his lover during the final battle, and attempted to use him to bargin. The antagonist blows up on this and threatens to kill all the hostages if he is harmed. Hence confirming this speculation for a lot of people.
Ishtvan Toff and Erik. But to me they didn't even look like lovers. I thought they were Father and son.. KCD1 didn't make it very clear that they were gay at all. They didn't come out and say it; nor was it implied. Erik was just someone who was important to him. If they are gay in KCD2 they didn't become gay until the second game. I also heard that it isn't between them in KCD2 but between Henry and Hans, but that it's an optional quest
@Ambander-p3x So, aside from severely lacking in geography, history and means of transport, you have issues with reading and listening comprehension, as well? Poor you, it must be a terrible life...
@@ShadowOfDeadRhodes21 Istvan Toth and Erik couldn't have come out without losing all the respect from their own troops too, thereby completely ruining everything for them. It was implied they were gay, Divish or Hanush said they assumed it too. That's why they were very sure the plan would work exchanging Lady Stephanie and Talmberg castle for Erik. It was just very subtle and obviously they had to keep it secret. Same goes for Lucas in the Monastery, who never confirms it directly but from context clues in dialogue and the novice book it can be assumed he got banished to the Monastery for saying he liked men when his father tried to marry him to a woman.
Putting a black person from Mali of all places additionally naming him Musa is the peak of pandering. He is a clear reference to Mansa Musa (also known as "The Only Black Person From The Middle-Ages Lefties Know About"). If you don't realize this, there is no help for you.
Also how did the guy get into Sigismunds army? Vavra said he was an envoy at Sultan Bayezids court which would mean the only time he could have seen Sigismund was at the battle of Nikopol which Sigismund lost decisively. Why would Musa join his court after seeing Sigismund engage in mortal combat with his fellow Sunni Muslims *and* lose? Why would Sigismund not immediately have him killed the moment he shows his face around him wearing the garb of a Muslim nobleman? It makes no sense.
@@-V-_-V- He's talking up his homeland and saying the foreign place he's in is mid. Basically the most vanilla opinion of any human being in history lmao.
@@blooperman1997 Yes, and the consequence of that should be that he's rejected from the community. But we're not going to see that in the game, are we?
I 100% agree with your idea of historical accuracy when it comes to the inclusion of things like racial diversity or homosexuality, but I think it's only a third of the full equation for me. The other two thirds would be; does the inclusion add anything to the story, and most importantly is the inclusion used to push ideas or narratives that I find immoral. For example, if someone in the year 3000 makes a video game set in a coastal American city in 2025 it would be weird if everyone was White and straight. That being said if the game were to push a narrative about the racial diversity and non-hetero-sexuality that I find to be destructive and immoral then I'd dislike the game regardless of how historically accurate the inclusion of such groups would be.
I dont agree with you really but i also kinda do. First off, im not trying to stir something up but how is non straight relationships immoral, i personally cant fathom how it has anything to do with morals? And to add onto that, i think inclusion just for the sake of it, or doing it in a distasteful manner that insults both gay people and the players intelligence i.e baby inc, where inclusivity is tokenized to earn good boy points is stupid and destructive. I agree that black people is very unusual in 15c bohemia but also, kuttenberg was a big city with alot of foreign trade coming through so its not inplausible. Im all for just about everything as long as it creates a good story with exciting plot points, id dare say that homosexuality was lore relevant then due to the possible social consequences due to the church. We couldnt have a game though where the player if they had a gay romance were insulted in the regular, though despite how you would agree with it, it would alienate a lot of olayers, but having an optional gay romance although unimportant to me personally, wouldnt alienate someone like you because you wouldnt do it.
@@wrath-2187 Because gay relationship when widespread lead to a society's inevitable destruction. Men and women have spent millenias finding out how to live with each other. This fascination and idolatry of dysgenic behaviors will destroy us.
We have seen devs in the past give the sams answer no one was forced, we had in the first game blab blah then each new game they mane gets worse and worse until they start giving answers like racists, right wing, biggots, not made for you. Just give it time it will happen in a few years when they aren't making the money they want.
This drama seems so blown out of proportion. Even if Henry now had a gay romance option, you would never be forced to go after it. Even in the first game, romances were entirely optional. Besides, has there even been any confirmation that its Henry whos in that cutscene? It is probably just Istvan Toth, who has already been established to be gay in the first game. Lastly, isnt this the Drama that was mistranslated as gay when in reality it was just deemed offenive to the middle east?
Metatron I am a czech, I am conservative and he is in a czech context very conservative. Not extremist right! But a bit below that which is still on the ok respectable side (not for the crazy leftists but who is ok for them anyway).
The comparison with Mass Effect is so bad, apples and oranges, we already KNOW which way the character swings from KC1, he has already a personality, just like Witcher for example for a better comparison, he isn't a blank canvas
I didn't know there was any drama... KCD1 took me about 10 tries over several years to get into it for real, but once I did, I was ALL-IN. Played it for like 200 some hours. Definitely a Top 10 for me and I cannot wait for 2.
There isn't any drama. There was a mistranslated Saudi Arabian tweet about the game being banned for unskippable gay love scenes and anti-woke TH-camrs jump on the story like starving dogs before anything was verified. Those idiots have now started a fire because every reactionary Twitch streamer is going to spread the videos and all context is going to be lost. I hate the internet sometimes.
The drama is overhyped nonsense by people being overly sensitive to wokeness (can't blame them after the bs pushed out last year) and people overhyping it for clickbait. It's a mistranslated saudi arabian tweet.
In fact, there might be some ppl pre order it because they thought KCD2 is 0% DEI. So that I could understand why they cancel pre order, cause DEI caused so much disappointment in many places, especially in game. I appreciate warhorses work, but i also have some questions about why Henry can be gay, in KCD1 he has no gay intention. Why every game has to have gay option just because DEI reason? It's been a long time I've never play a game which doesn't try to turn me a gay or bi. Or in other words, there were always have gay options in romances. That's too much. I can accept gay exist everywhere, but i have no interest role play it. Is it a crime that a game has no gay option?
Don't play the gay option then. I like when there's the option because straight Is always the default Yet gay people exist, and Guess what? I never play gay, It doesnt affect me in anyway. Even If my character was just gay and not bisexual It still wouldnt harm me because Im not gay and nothings gonna change that the same way a woman protagonist Isnt gonna make me trans
@@leonake4194 btw, sometimes gay option disguised very well. sometimes I just choose to say something nice, then I open a gay romance. If i have to load a 1hr save to prevent I become a gay, my feeling is like I fall into a trap. Lot of ppl, enclude me, not want to be gay, just wanna be nice, then the gay way open. so if a person doesn't want to be gay, has to choose the mean dialogue option to avoid to be gay. sometimes something hide behind in the name of freedom.
@@leonake4194 btw, sometimes gay option disguised very well. sometimes I just choose to say something nice, then I open a gay romance. If i have to load a 1hr save to prevent I become a gay, my feeling is like I fall into a trap. Lot of ppl, enclude me, not want to be gay, just wanna be nice, then the gay way open. so if a person doesn't want to be gay, has to choose the mean dialogue option to avoid to be gay. sometimes something hide behind in the name of freedom.
Just think about this fellows: warhorse actively animated and put work into making a gay cut scene, that means they proactively thought about and executed the idea of making such a cut scene. And yes, it's indeed confirmed to be in the game...
The black guy is a literal we wuzzery meme, a king, misunderstood genius and a doctor all in one, who treats they women right. Because we all know their community has great statistics on that, whether black or muslim, and especially when they get do their taharrush game.
Also note worthy that you made a separate comment before this about how metatron was factually incorrect about the Roman’s hating everyone(they did btw). The part about it that upset you was the fact that he didn’t specifically describe the Roman’s distaste for ethnic tribes whom you directly refer to as “black people” for some reason. Edit: Read another comment of yours talking about Metatron being “anti white” because he didnt point out Mr.Beast didn’t build homes for “His people”. I can’t be more clear as to what you are.
@@user-jt6rh8xy6n Spit it out then, what am I? You're a creep for one. It's clear you got nothing smart to say on the topic. For reference on what you mention, people in Antiquity and Middle Ages were racially aware and described the differences as much, there was no liberal egalitarianism back then. How bitter and naive do you have to be?
@@user-jt6rh8xy6n Back then it wasn't just "Africans". Africa is a big continent, the Romans were able to distinguish between the various ethnic groups there.
I’m sorry metatron, but I can’t see the inclusion of the option for Henry to be gay as nothing more than pandering. I am extremely disappointed and will be avoiding this one. I hope you have fun with it though.
Whether this demographic will or will not be buying the game is hardly an issue. What makes you say they won't? Considering you don't have to choose the option, it's generally good to include all possibilities in a Role Playing Game. You don't really suffer because the option is there anyway, so why be so bitter about it?
@@milkosek Because they took a character we liked from the first game and changed him for the sake of people that HATED the development team and tried to cancel the first game. It's also not "generally good" to include all possibilities in a RPG if the choices do not align with the setting, story, or characters. Geralt suddenly being able to sleep with men in the third game would have been weird and out-character and not a good thing to add to the game. Adding more choices is good but within the context of the story, character and setting (as I have already said).
@Anthony-uu2tk to clear up my confusion, Henry is follow up protagonist from first game? Because it makes a bit more sense to be not happy about that change. Although in general I'll be first to say I dislike games with Geralt (not that they are bad, just personally not my thing to play) because he is a well established character from the books, so it doesn't allow for a lot of roleplay. I could be the devil's advocate and say since he was pretty young I believe and only in one game so far he could've changed somewhat. But now I understand a bit more. Not my game, so I'll abstain from forming an opinion.
Honestly, Warhorse Studio hasn't given me any reason to be overly concerned about this game, both on the kcd1 and their public declarations. They also sent copy for TH-cam Reviews a whole month before the launch, which means they are confident their public will like, and they know that a big part of their public are conservative guys and anit-woke people, and people who care about historical accuracy. I think they are one of the few studios that deserve a vote of confidence, or at least the benefit of the doubt. That said, I must say that having an options for Henry to be gay does bother me, mainly because Henry is not a placeholder mc, like in Skyrim, Baldur's Gate and most of RPGs, he is a set character with set personality and traits, just like Geralt in The Witcher, and just like him, Henry was set as straight on the previous game. But that won't stop me from playing the game, I just hope that Henry keep being the character he is in everything else, so the choices of dialogue we have aren't just all possible options, but the ones Henry would consider choosing.
All Vavra did was confirm suspicions and make things worse. He, Warhorse, and their owner THQ, has taken the page out of every single other woke developer's playbook. Singled out a single sperg post and labeled them as a notsee, attempting to stop criticism and label all those that agreed with them as such when he posted with 'notsees' (plural) not liking "the scene". They've hired woke CMs. They've made woke partnerships with other studios/firms. They changed their CoC to be not surprisingly anti-white/western. They were vague and said to "trust us" and to not believe what they see on the Internet, yet it was all true. And they made these inclusions for nothing more than greater progressive representations into the setting, contradicting previous statements on the existence from people like Vavra himself, which is a woke value. If you DON'T think that this is woke, then you would surely also not call female custodes woke either. Just don't buy those models then, it's your army. It's only woke when YOU want it to be. Right? No. Refunded days ago, and their reaction has done nothing but let me know it was the call to make.
@@WAAAAAAGH all this over what? have you played the game yet? This is something I’d expect to see under dragon age veilguard comments, not a game that has good pedigree and hasn’t been released yet.
@@Jc95nonononon I've seen playthroughs of demos by people who got keys to it. But OP's statement makes sense when you notice a lot of them don't speak about the story/cut scenes so far.
@Jc95nonononon Did you play Concord? Veilguard? TLoU2? Dustborn? Did you buy them, try them out yourself, and make your judgements based off of your own experiences all to be unable to get a refund after the fact if/when they were seen to be incredible disappointments? We have pattern recognition. These things are never rolled back or stay the same. It is constantly progressed once it secures a hold and always gets worse. I'm not hitching myself to another compromised franchise just to see it fall like the other titles of the past. Look at the "pEdIgReEs' of all the great studios of yester-decade. Speaking of, it's been the better part of a decade since KCD1 came out. Time goes by, changes are made, you start calling your customers 'notsees' when they don't accept your bent knee to your woke parent company and consultancy firms, and you lose the trust you once had. with your base that you purposefully courted. You want to buy it, go ahead. For me, it's a guilt free experience after sailing the high seas.
@WAAAAAAGH You covered things pretty well, all I could add is that they are supposed to make us want to play their games. We don't need to "trust" or "be loyal".
So if you choose the actions that make Henry gay, you'll probably get a bunch of debuffs and make the game unplayable. Branded as gay with a hot iron on your face and then every merchant will increase prices and no one would want to talk to you.
All i know is that an established gay character would never in a million years be made straight in a sequel. Couldnt care less for KCD2 at this point, jog on Warhorse.
Its an rpg with a quest or romance option like baldurs gate. You can make whatever choice you wish or not even do the quest which would make your character or version of Henry however you want to play him. If you want Henry to be an archer and garbage at sword fighting you can, its the players choice.
When I heard about a gay scene in the game I didn't make much of it. But Henry? No. They established Henry as a straight character already. Having a gay romance option stinks of the usual suspects forcing THE MESSAGE. As for the justification that it is an RPG, it is NOT an RPG where you make up whatever character you want. It is an RPG where you play as an established main character. The choices you make will vary the experience but Henry remains Henry, you don't make your own Henry with blue hair and a nose ring and five genders at the beginning. It is the story of HENRY, the straight guy we all know from the first game. And then there's the usual superior black man from a superior black culture, which also reeks of the usual suspects forcing THE MESSAGE. No, thank you. If the political climate were different, if people weren't absolutely sick of THE MESSAGE being shoved into everything, these choices wouldn't matter much. But everyone stood by Warhorse because what they were doing was different, so these changes indicate a betrayal of principle.
YOU establish the character. With your choices throughout the game. Some people's Henry murdered innocent people, some stole, some didn't do any of that. Why is THAT not seen as a big deal in how the character is seen as? These are all choices you make in how you see the character of Henry behave through YOUR own eyes.
Why does diversity mean a black person? Why isn't there a chinese person who came through the mongol empire? That would be just as far fetched. The reason for any of this is to pander to left wingers.
Because we're inside American politics. For americans, its all about skin color. Some people in there call asians as "white adjacent" because guess what? they aint black
yes as a 5avage faith, After all they want to make it authentic. I want to see that kind of depiction that it would Make the i5l@mic world ban it. It would be very funny.
If they add sex everywhere, then gay stuff is kind of accurate. I would rather question, whether there need to be sex or sexual romance in every rpg. Homosexual romances have been more spread back then, than people usually believe. Not necessarily accepted or open lived, and surely not the norm, but it happened often enough, for being a topic, that the church worked against and tried to convince the people to harden laws - also inside the church. Though it was not only about homosexually.
I mean, it doesnt really matter. If homosexuality is intelligently written into the medieval european setting then it is brilliant, not because gay is automatically good, but because it is a relevant topic for the setting regarding how the church, and by extention society viewed it. If it is written in to score inclusivity points, i would be offended because it would be a soulless mockery of just about everyone both gay and straight. Either way, whatever lgbtq topics is written in are most likely going to either fly over everyones heads or be fully optional, and if the game would regularly insult gay people then it would regularly insult a considerable ammount of the people playing it
@SuperEnforcer88 what is the lgbtq agenda tho? I mean gay people were relevant in the middle ages and it could make for a good plot point like for istvan toth, and how it could affect him socially among other noblemen. Besides, nobles had it easy with homosexual interactions, pheasants did not and were ostracised, but aomething tells me thats what alot of people like about the setting which is in bad faith
About homosexuality in a historical context: in the Holy Roman Empire and southern Germany specifically, because this is the region I studied during my B.A. at the university of Tübingen, homosexuality was not a worldly crime for most of the middle ages. Even sodomy (anal sex) was not a worldly crime until the 13th century, but simply a sin - a form of "luxuria". Your local priest could order your to pray for absolution, but your local lord could not harm you. It slowly changed in the second half of the 13th century and your local ruler/judge could condemn you to a death sentence for sodomy, but never for homosexuality in general. Simply said: in Henry's time (1403) kissing, hj, bj were weird but per se not a crime, but anal sex was punishable by death.
Its simple, this was pushed into the game, its only there because financial backers forced it. And as the saying goes, give them an inch, they’ll take it a mile. Many people are tired of it, political agendas, no matter how small you think it be, has no place in games.
Buy it yourself and consoom the product. I'm done with every piece of media that doesn't want me as a customer. And yes, advocating for any leftist political views is enough to make me drop this one. Henry was never a bisexual and was a God-fearing Christian, so it makes little sense to have him sword fight under the bedsheets this time, even if it's up to me if he does it. They could have spent the development time in new quests, more loot, better performance... anything but this really solemn take on LGTV oppression in 1400's Bohemia. Nobody asked for this crap. And the icing on the cake is this Musa fellow who has come to Europe to preach the safety and feminist ways of the slaving kingdom of Mali. They can shove it.
They slapped me on the face, I was trying to defend them a few days ago saying all that was just rumors, let's wait, but there's no doubt anymore that they are slowly bending their knees.
Oh you poor little thing, go hide before that one optional gay scene makes u dumb af. Wait, u already are ! Then dont worry mate, just play it before u make assumptions about quest u not gonna even do. Just go into bath house, take some nice lady and keep ur ass shut.
lol I just looked into Mali during that time period yeah thats hilarious almost like the movie woman king tried to pain the african tribe that sold slaves and fought the british to keep doing it as the good guys
so like evangelicas in america? (crazy, racist, bigoted and wanting to k!ll everyone who isnt taliban like them?) because thats always been christianity. this entire, it spread peacfully is nonsense. if isis took over, they would state they were loved by all upon their arrival...
I honestly have good expectations despite the drama. The first game already had a side quest with a monk who liked men and, like "The Name of the Rose", it accurately depicted gayness in the medieval church in a way that didn't feel preachy like Veilguard. I think nothing about this subject will be handled in a different way in the sequel
@@speckbretzelfan is the wokeness in the room with us right now? Every romance in the first game is optional, yes, Henry is portrayed as liking women in the prologue but there is basically nothing in their suggesting he couldn't like men, which, _again_ is an optional romance route in a role-playing game where you can make your character be what you want him to be. Snowflakes man.
@@speckbretzelfani dont see any retconning here. And if you want to think emotionally like that without seeing reason, you might as well switch to the woke side. It would be very fitting.
I can understand why people are angry even at the optional gay Henry. They interpret it as "straight is bad". That there can be no straight characters in gaming, the best you get is bi. Personally I consider bi as the best option for games where you "create" character (ME, BG3), but not for game with established characters (Witcher). A lot of players saw KCD2 as the latter, while we got the former.
Other than one black legend of news on TV Nova, I never saw a single black person (discounting videogames and some few movies) till I went on a school exchange trip to London. Every single exchange family there were black and I vividly recall myself and many others being terrified of those people and pretty much since that thay I became a proponent of ethnostatism.
i didnt made a lot from the middle eastern ban on an scene, what made me not wanting to play the game was the constant deleting of the people asking about it in the forum while leaving up themes like the bigots this or the homophobos that
That's why we need to let these big gaming companies that are destroying the industry fail There will always be smaller studios who need to earn our trust and support who still make products that we want. They can grow into the space left by the companies we don't need anymore
@Hedgehobbit but if there's space people will fill the vacuum There's too much money to be made for them to just dump the industry wholesale. New passionate people will continue to make games after
The single black guy is what they should have done in the japanese Assassins creed. An interesting side character with unique quest line. But nothing more. Main character is what destroyed the game. I'm anti woke hardcore but even I thought it would be cool to have like 1 black guy or 1 chinese merchant thats lost as hell in Bohemia for some reason and some funny interactions.
@ Well if you watched the video, there was 1 black guy who was in the army historically, which they can use to insert a black guy. This is a thing used often by hardcore reenactors. Like how they can get Asians in strict American revolutionary war reenactments. Because in history 1 Asian guy who happened to be there, any Asian that takes part in the hobby will be that guy in the roleplay. Just like how half black guys in Japan who do reenactments ALWAYS play the Yusuke role. It was under the assumption if they DID cave in to the woke and deviated from historical accuracy, it would be pretty funny to have a random Chinese silk trader there that you had to help get home.
@@Hathathorne No, there wasn't a historically black guy in the army . This is the justification for the character in the game. You said you are a anti woke hardcore but didn't even check the source. Nice bait.
100% agree with Metatron on Asmongold's takes being a complete dice roll. Part of the man's charm, admittedly - you can rarely guess what he'll be saying next.
It makes zero sense for main character suddenly deciding being gay(if you choose so). This option is clearly put there just to please some people. Yes you can ignore it, but why they even include something like this. Do you really buy that shitty argument about role play?
Yea, Henry doesn't exist irrespective of you the player. If you want him to be gay, make him gay, if you don't, don't. Find something actually worth getting angry about other than the DEI/woke boogeyman. 'Gamer' is gonna become a slur at this rate with the way people engage with the medium, I swear.
@@Bjorn-sl9jr you could argue that it was weird to not have gay option in the first game and that this is just rectifying the lack of freedom in the first. there were already gay characters in the first game so it's not even like it's all that crazy to have the option for Henry to also be gay.
@@Bjorn-sl9jr first of all, the main antagonist was gay, if you had actually played the game. there were also multiple gay characters throughout the game. it wasn't just one side character. Second noone is claiming that everyone should be gay, you're making up a boogeyman. in a game about roleplaying, having a gay option for the main character (and likely story beats on how that might be handled during the time period) is perfectly reasonable - so long as it's optional
I knew this stuff would happen when the woke crap started being pushed into games, knew it 100%. Way back in high school, I created a game in which one of the characters happened to be gay. Yes, it was a bit surprising to some (this was 2008), also because the character did not behave in a stereotypical manner. He was very masculine, and the relationship with the other guy, was modeled very much after how warriors of the old world viewed such relationships. I did not show them in any sort of sexual manner, or slobbering on each other, I didn't feel the need to and given how they treated their relationship, I felt they would not want to emulate the male/female dynamic in any sort of way. I did not feel the need to remind people the two were lovers, it wasn't really important and wouldn't make sense to focus on either. Story-wise, one of the guys was seen as a problem, because he was not human, but thought he was. Everyone thought the characters were interesting, cool with some even forgetting the two were lovers, and joked saying they were, "bromosexuals" or in an "intense bromance," which I thought was funny. In remaking the game, I know many on one side will deem it "woke" just because there is a dude in love with another dude. Though on the woke weirdo side, because both men are VERY masculine, and there is no promotion of LGBTQ propaganda, they will also scream as well and naturally want things canceled. I greatly despise this Marxism, because it destroys art especially, turning everything into dumb shit, along with people against each other as it is designed to do. It is an evil thing really. The game, was a JRPG style game, heavily inspired by both Chrono Trigger and Xenogears (no time travel or giant mechs to pilot though), you traveled to 3 different worlds, and was basically almost how I wished a Phantasy Star V would be, and we worked hard to have it look like PS1 Guilty Gear. It was called, "Planetary War Chronicles Armament of Volition."
didn't the greek sources only refer to pederasty? From what I remember neither Metatron nor anyone else ever provided an example from ancient greece of a relationship between two adult men, unless they were lying and claimed that zeus kidnapping teenage ganymed was somehow a love between two adult men.
@@paulodelima5705 well, then provide a spartan example. And how old were Alexanders male lovers supposed to be? And wasn't he maccedonian and not greek?
Coming from a french background I still find this dubious. I mention said background because I don't know how culturally specific this little factoid is but Bohemia has always had this bad rep of being somewhat of a degeneracy place. Not outright, not to the level of Sodom and Gomorrah but everytime I've seen Bohemia or a bohemian mentioned, more often than not it had this kind of connotations attached. So the very choice of this place is implying something else. I don't know, it might be a typically french prejudice, we got many of those, but still.
Henry isn't some blank slate, he is straight, and as far as I understand, it takes more than a few speech choices to magically want men. So, now I'm not buying this game.
Is he straight? How do you know, do you have access to his internal feelings? Oh that's right, he's not real. How do you know if a person is not hiding something, or maybe he's struggling with something? You don't know. Do you realize that many people are straight until the day they notice they aren't, some even just mess around because they want to try (I'm not saying it's good but it happens), I've met guys who turned at 40yo already married, it happens so much. Maybe you should listen to gaeh people, talk to them and listen to their experiences, they are human beings, instead of listening to what people tell you about gaeh people just talk to them, because if you only listen to your side, it's just an echo chamber of hatred. Also, isn't it realistic that the character can fall and "sin"? After all you can play as evil, so why is this a bridge too far to "sin"? I suspect it's because of your ideology. Chill out man, i have been against woke for more than a decade, i know more about this than 99% of the people, this kind of attitude is hurting our objective and pushing good developers away, we can't act unhinged, i think you are listening to the wrong people, people with their own agenda.
Ok, so I am one of those people that doesn't like the recent news about the game and probably I'm not gonna buy it. At least not on launch. With the gay stuff. It's not a problem that there are gay people in the game. There were some gay characters in the first one. The problem is that they gave Henry an option to be gay/bi where in the previous game there was 0 evidence that he is intereseted romantically in other men. It comes off as "pinkwashing" and shallow pandering. Henry is not a self instert/tabula rasa, he is his own character with his own back story and sudden change like that leaves a bad taste. Second of all. The black scholar. There would be less backlash if Vavra (the game director) himself didn't take a strong stance against black characters in the first game. "Would you please explain to me whats racist about telling the truth? There were no black people in medieval Bohemia. Period."- Direct quote from Vavra from few years back. So adding a black character now comes off as another tokenistic gesture. It also doesn't help that the character seems very smug about his "surperior" culture towards women. The cherry on top is Warhorse being bought by Embracer Group in 2019. A VERY progressive company that isn't shy to boast about the messaging in their games. People think that all those features are a direct result of that. All in all the messaging might just end there and the game is going to be mostly good. But anyone that follows the "culture war" knows that it is never enough for the ideology. And eventually you end up with Dragon Age: Veilguard or Concord. Might not be this game or even their next one but eventually they're going to get there if people don't say "enough".
@Ambander-p3x Amazing. Another racist. Why call them "blaks" instead of just black people? Besides, one traveling black man isn't the end of the world.
Its not like people have a knife to their throat to buy it blindly on day one, i preordered and i couldnt give a rats ass about they griftey drama being stirred up, all of it is such a non issue. Im here for sword fighting, cool plots and tomfoolery in the late middle ages
Problem is Henry is Henry, he's not a self insert and he has certain lines (A LOT OF LINES) you have zero control over no matter how you play him. And he's straight as a board in the first game, so why change him? It's pandering, that's what it is.
Henry seeing a PoC for the first time in his life is gonna be fun. A bit like in the French movie " les visiteurs" when 2 men from the middle ages somehow get into our present time and meet a black guy, such a fun scene.
I think it's glaringly clear that Warhorse have fallen under pressure from their parent company to add at least a token of diversity in the game. Whether Warhorse themselves actually wanted to or not, we might never find out. It is disappointing, but ultimately not surprising in this day and age. DEI has made its way into almost every crevice of Western society at this point.
The question isn't if the gay romance is in the game- the question is why was it even put in the game as an option? People are missing the point, its being put in the game to condemn it by representing how medieval people viewed it.
Sure, you try to convince yourself that that was the motive. But I doubt Henry's gonna get whipped or placed in the stocks if we choose the gay romance option.
give examples where DEI and DEI alone is the direct cause for a studios downfall. U guys love using fearmongering tactics on shit that doesn't even exist.
@perc6685 I don't have to give you any examples for me being disgusted by DEI, but if you have to ask me that, you haven't paying attention to what has happened in gaming. And a studio doesn't have to flop for me to be disgusted by DEI, the hell are you talking about?
Cliffy Bs last big fps shooter lawbreakers when he spent all his time going on about the bathrooms to 'market' it, does concord need to be mentioned too?😂
The problem is their blind adherence to ideological conformity. They don't care if it is historical or not, just force diversity everywhere at all time.
The phrase I think of when I see this in media is "valor isn't hereditary" In the 90s and before we saw these things and it was "hey wouldn't it be cool?" These things were done for lines or skits inside the medium for entertainment value. Now a days though it's seems to be as a justification. In historic material it's generally followed with "see (insert culture) did it" or "this is the 'true' history". In entertainment it's used to give the impression of larger demographic or as a gotcha moment when you enjoy such media. The groups in question use distinguished moments in media and history to distract from poor present perception and rather than trying living a praise worthy life they deflect with historic or fictional characters.
It generates alot of clicks, and honestly it poisons the well in a way for me. It smells alot like grift and i refuse to let it deter me from kcd2, but i feel negative feelings around the game when antiwoke people claim ownership over the kcd fandom as if its some bastion against "the nasty queers", it just feels fucked up in a way. Either way, im all for lgbtq themes in games especially historic settings because it can shine a light on the topic in an intelligent way, and not like the baby inc lobbying that tokenizes and makes a mockery of acceptance and diversity and that serves no one well
This is the over-correction we've been dreading on. I do agree that the sudden change to Henry from straight to having options of the same sex in the 2nd game is annoying, its good that it isn't forced (you really have to go out of your way to get that option I'm assuming). The drama just got over blown by some people who didn't even played the first game or have any modicum of knowledge of history.
There is never a consensus on what 'fair' is in any context. Any time anyone says they are being 'fair', we all know it just means that person has an authority complex.
If anyone's curious to see how much of a hypocrite Vavra is, just look up his tweet from 2015. "Thanks to popular demand by history revisionists & for the sake of accuracy let me introduce you to our protagonist!" The implication (in case you missed it) is that there were no blacks in medieval Bohemia and thus, there would be none and indeed were none in his game. My oh my, how his tune changed in just 10 years.
Are you able to understand that there’s a difference between having a single foreigner in one of the largest centers in Europe at the time, like Kutná Hora, through which trade routes from as far as Asia passed, and forcibly inserting them into the Sázava region, where you wouldn’t find a black person even today?
@@marty.m2933 Cope. There's zero evidence of anything like that happening in Bohemia. Literally no reason for him to be there when even the emirates and kingdoms of his own culture/religion were so divided. This guy's supposedly a doctor and a scholar and not one of his own people wanted him? Not one of the neighboring rival kingdoms wanted to stick it to the other by harbouring him? Get real please.
@ I have no idea-I haven’t played the game yet, so I can’t tell you why he isn’t at home and is traveling with the army. I’m also not an expert on African medieval law, so I don’t know if doctors had the right to travel (though I assume they did). What exactly he’s doing there is something I assume you’ll find out in the game. However, my reaction is about your reference to Vávra’s statement that there were no black people in Bohemia. Well, there weren’t, and it makes sense that there weren’t in the first game. But they could theoretically have appeared occasionally in the most important centers, which Kuttenberg is. I’m not saying it would have been a common sight, and surely people would have reacted to them accordingly. I admit it would be quite a coincidence. That said, unlike in Sázava, a rare foreigner in Kutná Hora doesn’t strike me as entirely impossible. And most importantly-and this is the main reason I commented on it-I don’t think it contradicts Vávra’s original statements, which were about the setting of the first game.
The character is there to push an agenda. Vavra is a hypocrite. He wasn't being hyper specific referring to villages and cities in that tweet. The people he was ridiculing weren't either. Again this is just copium. "B-b-but it's poooooossible!" - It's also possible and far more likely that no such character would be present anywhere in the region. So ask yourself why are you seeing this? What part of the vision of medieval Bohemia, urban or rural, would be cheapened for the exclusion of an African character that died long before the game's set period and has no business being there? The answers are obvious.
The gay option would have way bigger narrative consequences then a simple romance option. There is a reason very very few people displayed their homosexuality openly. The addition of this seems more like checking a box. *edit: I agree that it could work as long as they are willing to fit it in contextually within the history, but it is still a Western Dev in the year 2025 and I for one no longer can believe them at their words. Just have to wait for the game to come out...
It's a relatively small issue really, but in the context of warhorse gaining popularity based on being the only anti woke, anti identity politics, anti activism game developer instead focusing on history, that being their entire selling point, I can see why their fans are skeptical
So they felt the need to change one of the main protagonists to be potentially gay? Ok, they can do whatever they want. But same is true for me -> I won't buy the game. 0 tolerance any longer. "The rewards for tolerance are treachery and betrayal."
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The "woke community manager" refers to the CM handling their steam community page and was issued to them by their publisher Plaion.
They made a recent addition to their Rules which was basically a copy paste from the general steam TOS but people claimed it was proof they went "completly woke" as they now included rules banning homophobia/transphobia (and did not went out of their way to add rules against heterophobia, i guess)
Ah, you read it as well.
you mean we are not going to find a massive globally diverse population in hungary and czech in the 14th century or so?
who woulda thunk it :p
@@bulldowozer5858 people complaining about woke are bigots who hate being called out on it.
its the same thing if you call a stupid person, stupid.
only stupid people get insulted by this because they feel it may be true.
It's real Metatron, I appreciate you trying to be fair but brother they bent the knee. They know it won't meet diversity reqs to get nominated anyways and still bent the knee. WE boycotting, and he already got preorders and most won't hear till it's too late
You being a historian in your heart know Mali wasn't a kingdom and know there weren't them traveling like other merchants like others. You know the black guy wasn't there. In another generation the west will think this is normal. You need to talk of this more this has us more mad then the gay stuff
You know ever since the Weimer Rep. that Europe has been forced to accept degeneracy. WE are sick of it, this has to stop and we were so close. The fact that they hid it is 100000x worse. Thank God for the Saudi Arabians calling this out. They pandered and now people can't let their kids play the game. I'm so sick of this, it normalized it and that's the problem
I like the part where they recorded local, natural forest ambience and then ornithologists told them that they had captured birds that didn't live there in the early 15th century so they fixed the _audio_ to be period accurate. I didn't know they were bird racists. ;)
Never heard about that but it's brilliant if true
They weren't there in the 15th century.
@@GhoulzaNot really. Bird remains don't last long in the fossil record. They have no clue what birds were there 400 years ago.
Goddam beakas.
Its because of the illegal immigrant birds driving out the native ones. They tried to build a wall but the birds flew over it.
In my home city of Příbram in Czech republic, having like 40 000 inhabitants I have seen 2 black people living there for a time in my 25+ years living there. And those black people were there to play football fore their team, they never had permanent residence.
Yeah, and the one in KCD 2 is not a pernemant citizen he's travelling with the enemy army
Exactly. Even today Czechia is something like 97% European, and if you take away Prague it's more like 99.9%
@reubendorman Yes, you are correct. So I have no problem with that.
Wow, there must be no crime.
Yep and there was no "Kingdom" of Mali, they didn't have civilization like the west and middle east did. This is more American white saviors trying to gas up black folks. As a German American I am used to having my ethnicity be disrespected and downplayed or removed. But to have this happen from my own is beyond disheartening. WE are done with this. North Africa isn't sub-Saharan Metatron stop lying Metatron. This game just crashed.
Yes, historical accuracy is Right Wing now.
Always has been.
I wouldn't say that. I say libertarians or classic liberals are most honest about history than lets say conservatives, or modern liberals are. If you want an honest take on history listen to a classic liberal or a libertarian, neither fit in the modern political spectrum of conservatism or modern liberalism. Well counting where you live. Mostly because classic liberal values often go against the "State's" interest or "Religous" interest or "Progressive" Interest and god forbid the "Nationalist" interest. Most of the "ism" interest as well which are too collectivist minded.
There is a reason so much of both left/right hate libertarians or classic liberals. lol
Florida would disagree
and woke at the same time
Honestly I think that's just fanatics on one side trying to defame fanatics on the other while trying to manifest their world view. Confirmation bias and ignorance as a combination basically.
I've also heard people say it isn't historically accurate because there are gay men and a non white person. Historical revisionism doesn't just take place on one side, it's just been more often seen on the left but generally it's a thing that lives on the fringes. Also the US-influenced bipartisan left / right scale leaves out a lot of political flavours that don't align to that one-dimensional scale.
When playing the first game, I vaguely recall a dialogue option (when speaking to that drunkard priest) about Henry’s thoughts on religion. As an atheist, I was dumbfounded for a moment that there wasn’t an “atheist option” to voice your non belief. After a couple of seconds of thought, I realized that not having an atheist option is simply historically accurate. Nearly every person in this society would’ve been raised Christian and even if the occasional person was atheist, they most likely would’ve kept it secret, as I can’t imagine the consequences of revealing such being very good.
This is not Skyrim. You are not inserting yourself into a fantastical world. You are playing a fictionalized character in a historical world and should this make the choices someone like that would’ve made.
Yeah, it seems like Henry's religious views can either be more conservative or progressive depending on your choices, but he never outright says he's athiest. That doesn't stop him from being heretical, though, like if you choose to help the Waldensians evade capture
Religion wise yeah, and I believe it's somehow actually worse than being gay in that time period.
There were a few quests that were very un christian but yknow it worked because henry had a choice whether to participate in a pagan ritual or turn in a family for their unchristian beliefs or let them go and then there's the sermon he can do for the priest in uhzits or some town where he can be more radical or or orthodox or just wing it randomly.
@@SummeR00393I delivered the sermon ducking over the priest on purpose cause Ima "good" catholic and he is fornicating.
not every RPG is your story, soemtimes it's their story .
It's always best to never pre-order. Wait for reviews and decide after everything is clear.
Yeah, I swore to never preorder, so even if I buy an Early Access or Alpha/Beta version of the game, I at least know what there is to the game and I can see if I like it before I pay.
I expect KD:C2 to be good, but developers and community managers shouldn't get in arguments online as it almost always is just a bad look.
There are some games I've preordered and thinking it was a good idea and still do.
Small independents especially may need the funding early on to actually bring the game to light. That said I'm not preordering things from any of the big companies at the current time.
Never pre-order.
Imagine only reading first drafts or only watching test screenings
@@Pumciusz devs are just normal people lol, most of em especially from small companies will hop into arguments
@@defectiveindustriesalso so many games are buggy at launch. Imagine paying a premium price to be a beta tester. Can people not wait a month when a new game comes out? What do they think will happen if they don't play right away?
we brought a camel to Czechia after winning the battle in one coastal city that is super diverse. it was so popular that we still have him on a coat of arms
of the most popular Czech beers (in Czechia at least). it happened during the Hussite wars and it is kinda fun long story about it
I'm currently studying history, do you know of any sources or any literature about it? I would love to write a paper on the story as I was already planning on eventually doing a paper on Hussite wars and Jan Žižka. Cheers
@IncontenentiaButtux yea my prefered sources of that period bohemia are: františek šmahel husitská revoluce and any of the work from Petr Čornej could be useful to you. I am not sure how well they are translated if it is not a large study you should do good with just a single book by Petr Čornej. specifically, I would recommend Jan Žižka or Husitská revoluce: Stručná historie
@IncontenentiaButtuxJan Žižka by Petr Čornej Is definetly best book you can get. It is life's work of one of thé best czech historian. But unfortunetly i dont know if there is english translation.
@ Thank you so much for the suggestion. It's okay I can learn Czech I already know multiple slavic languages
@ Noted, thank you so much for the advice. I really appreciate it, have a good rest of the day.
I miss when games were just games.
Go play pong then.
@@jossecoupe446 did someone shit in your soup today?
Here, here!
@@jossecoupe446Go watch a gay porno then……..
@@jodomarj9063 There, there what, mate?
Does not seem like it was done genuinely, Henry is a straight protagonist with multiple female romances in the first game. He is an established character that is now being changed for an optional gay romance? You would never see a straight romance for an already established gay character
While I don’t think Warhorse did change Henry in that way, you absolutely would see other studios turn straight characters gay in current year lol
The female romances are all optional.
all his female romances are optional and not part of main quest, basicly in main quest Henry deoesnt fck cuz he has no tiem for that, he spent few weeks in bed recovering, thne he goes to his lord tel him he lost sword is sent to training, while in training joins investigation of Neuhof masacre, cuz there coudl have been guy who stole the sword, all things which happen to henry from him going to his lord till ending happens in few weeks just to bring in some time frame. So if you play jsut main quest and dont go drinking with Godwin you have no chance fck any girl, goat or pie. And also if you as player decide not to get bath with extra help, you are rewarded with virgin achievement. So I can very likely see this virgin sexualy unexperienced version of henry be basis for KCD2 since we cant transfer our molded Henry from KCD1.
Also dont expect gays being stoned to death or burned on spike etc. Mostly they were sent to monasteries etc to repent and serve god. But what should have happened in KCD1 is Henry getting executed for fckign married noble lady(even if it was her coming to him) escpecialy him at that time being peasant. This is one thing I super dislike on KCD, I dont mind gays cuz they existed its nothing new since ancient times, but peasant touching noble lady and married noble lady with consequences this is something for wwich many died even tho they were slaves or serfs doing it under order, also those ladies were lucky if they didnt share same fate and instead were sent to monastery. Women in those times wer more like thing you owned or commodity to trade(for fathers) especialy noble ones, at least this part was shown in woman's lot dlc.
If anything knowing Henry it'll probably be an accidental gay cutscenes like some crossdressing noble. Since Henry was never established as gay or able to be it'd be hard to see Henry explicitly go and romance someone knowing they are male.
@ Your first paragraph was rendered invalid by Warhorse in one of the trailers for KCD2 when they called Henry a “Lover” (as in he has loved before) and showed him kissing a girl. Virgin Henry is not the one they intend for us to get. Your second paragraph is interesting because it revolves around your first one being false, as in Henry wasn’t a virgin and did sleep with Lady Stephanie. That’s not a big problem anyway since I’m sure there were instances of servants sleeping with Ladies and the secret never getting out (kinda lame that they implied the entire province knew about it in Madonna of Sasau though).
I dunno, i dont agree with the commander shepherd comparison, I dont think Henry = Shep, Shep is a customizable character, his look, his background and to some extent his personality is more in your hands, Henry is not, you cant change how he looks, you cant change how he was raised, and even with dialogue choices hes still gunna reply and talk like hes Henry even if you make him do un henry things, so his sudden interest in dick and or man ass is entirely developer choice and players are well within their rights to ask, why now and not 6 years ago? Vavra would likely reply "he wants the game to be more RPGish and give players more choice" which is fair enough, but dont be shocked when people still dont like it cause you didnt feel that way about it in the first game or you would have done it there first. It puts people off because of that, I genuinely think it would have played out differently if KCD2 had a new character or a player made one, there would still be those who would just hate a gay scene at all, theres also people the "suddenly this character is gay" "suddenly theres a black guy" correct or not, it gives off, Thors a women now vibes for these people changes for the sake of a larger audience are not always positive and takes away from the immersion or integrity of the source for others.
The ability to make Shepard gay never actually became available until ME3.
@@billybatts8283 At least hes still a customizable character tho, I think thats a big reason why people dont really mind everyones got a different shep, Henry aint that, Henry is Henry.
Agreed. It would be like giving Geralt an option in Witcher 3 to be gay which would make no sense.
That's the sus thing for me. Henry has a personality. He's not just some speechless character like Tav from BG3. Something went on, and ofc, that makes me disappointed in the devs. Shame. The actors were really nice guys too.
for larger audience = DEI requirements
the everything is far right comment is something TIKhistory has pointed out, and this methodology goes all the way back to the early 20th Century. His "What is Fascism?" video where he reads Orwell's essay "What is Fascism?" He points out how the word was used for everything under the son. Issue is so has the word "Far Right." Good example in one of his videos he pointed out a historian who made a comment in the 1980s who called the Soviet Union Far Right.
A good video is "It's not fascism, bro" from Pilgrom Pass. So far, he's been one of the best youtuber out there. Has very interesting takes.
As much as I am interested in the KCD, I felt it is weird to have a Moor Merc healer within Sigismund's ranks, THE Sigismund.
If it was some random Bohemian Lord Radzig, or Divish is more believable.
Sigismund from his profile and history, hates Muslims with a burning passion due to him being taken as a hostage by the Ottomans during his youth and had Hungary humilated by them once.
Later in life, he formed a Order of Knights witg Dracula, yes the Dracula fron Transyvanlia to revive the Crusades against the Ottomans.
Dracula himself was a Christian Zealot with a intense hatred towards the Turks and like Sigismund, had been taken hostage once by them, during his Childhood.
And Sigismund made the Order during the time when the Christendom's unity is cracking, and the ethusiasm for the Crusades were near dead.
Yet he got the Romanians and even the French to participate in the Crusade, which eventually lead to the catastrophic defeat in the Battle of Nicopolis, as the glory hungry French Knights ignored orders and charged ahead recklessly, hence they were decimated by the Turks.
Later, during the Hussite Wars, Sigismund was the main advocate to call on another crusade against the Hussites, only to fail again.
Hence, it is pretty hard for a freelancing moor, much more a physican, a position of great importance to be hire by Sigismund.
Not saying Sigismund is like the painter, but this is comparable if the Austrian Painter keeping a Personal Jewish Doctor in WW2.
What's stopping the Moor to slip some poison into Sigi's soup because he was paid better by the Turks or because of his devotion to the Islamic Faith against one of their biggest enemies at the time?
Edit: Misinfo, not Dracula/Vlad III but his father Vlad II, tho still doesn't take away from my point much
It's probably part of of Vavra's anti-Germanism.
he formed the crusader order with Dracul, who was Dracula's father, Dracul means dragon and Dracula means son of the dragon
@@BenjaminInkster Huh think I got it wrong, I forgor if it was Vlad III or his dad that fought alongside Sigismund, or if they both did.
i found you via your "academy" channel and only recently found out you even have a "main" channel (how do you even make so many videos? you seem to physically have more hours in a day than even exist), but i just want to say it's great to hear sane and balanced takes in this madhouse we call the modern world
I will wait for reviews. Not from game journalists though.;) Conerning the lgbtq+ stuff, since Henry is a predetermined character, like Geralt in the WItcher, turning him bisexual now would be really weird. Wouldn't mind it if the main character would be a newly created character function as our avatar. Since he here we have a blank sheet, everyone can (ideally) fill out the way they like it. But turning an establised character retrospectively bisexual feels just wrong.
Henry is not predetermined character.
Can you say that Henry is Good or evil?
I'm just finding out about the Malian king being in the game essentially as a mercenary for hire at the behest of Sigismund... It feels weird and very frickin' forced to me. Mali is extremely far from Bohemia. The Malians were in a state of slow decline due to foreign raiders and civil wars throughout the 15th century. They were also an Islamic kingdom, and to me a Muslim king being subservient to a Christian king to the point where he musters an army and undergoes a pilgrimage greater than that of his ancestors pilgrimage to Mecca just to serve as a mercenary just doesn't feel plausible to me in the slightest.
He's not the Malian king, read Vavra's tweet - he's simply a noble from Mali, not even a mercenary.
Well, the silk road is relevant in kcd2s geography, and its not a king if i remember correctly, either way, its one black guy, id understand your critisicm if it was like 15% of the population was black but its a foreign dude looking to make money through trade
Not a king and there's a lot more forced things in the game, no peasant would learn as many skills, climb the social ladder as quickly, meet as many important people and kill as many Cumans as Henry. Single black person is possible, though unlikely, but if it displays how the medieval europeans would react and leads to fun narratives that are handled authentically, it's fine..
This is not Mansa Musa who dies a near century before the game. This is an entirely new character.
@@wrath-2187 West africa was not part of the silk road. What the fuck are you talking about Jesse?
what was the medieval treatment of homosexual ?
can henry give them "time appropriate treatment" ?
Well Longshanks pervert son got a super charged enema.
You're thinking Victorian. Medieval wasnt so weird about it
Most likely yes. You could do so in the first game.
treatments that i heard for two nuns engaging in lesbian activity was they were required to do penance on holy feast days.
during the Middle Ages capital punishment for homosexuals was the case when they were rapists. While its realistic to have Henery have the option to be gay it is also realistic for him to be a rapist.
I think the game should involve a quest line where you rape everyone in the game and get the tittle "Henry the buggerer"
"Jesus Christ be praised!"
Allahu akbar.
Ahura Mazda
Hail Satan!
Wow, a bunch of smooth brains who don’t understand the game reference and are trying to be edgy.
I’m quite hungry.
So for more context on this (this will be a long post).
Yes Henry has a confirmed gay romance, we don't know with who (I hope it's not Hans Capon) but it is there as confirmed in a thread by Grummz, in which he had a discussion a someone who has played and beaten KCD2.
A substantial portion of the backlash is due to awful PR and Vavra himself.
So the first thing is, they did not want to admit there was gay romance, being very cagey and elusive when posting about this. Obviously it came across as them trying to hide it, knowing it's not a popular aspect. It's not hard to say yes there is a gay romance option without going into spoilers if you're confident in it.
Yes, Vavra has called people n*zi's for calling him out, and no this isn't just that one guy. He ran away to Facebook to post it (you can find the post on google by searching Vavra facebook n*zi post), calling everyone n*zi's in a blanket post. Obviously this didn't go down well, and *is* leftist rhetoric.
Vavra is also now attacking other youtube commentators, most notable is Rev Says Desu, which is very hypocritical in that it's clear Vavra never watched Rev's video (it was mostly positive), and this comes 2 weeks after Vavra calling out other game devs for attacking youtubers such as Critical Drinker.
The Official KCD2 account (not Vavra) was also caught hiding replies on X/Twitter, again not a good look.
It's extremely easy to see that adding a gay romance option when Henry had 0 homosexual inclinations in the first game, and then hiding behind statements such as "there were gay people in the first game", is incredibly disingenuous and a non sequitur.
Many people also like to bring up that Henry is not a custom character, and is more along the lines of Geralt from The Witcher, a defined character that you can influence, and that a lot of people saying this change is fine for KCD2 would be calling for blood if Geralt was given gay romance options in The Witcher 3 (rightfully so in my opinion) as it would be incredibly forced (as it feels like it is in KCD2).
You can also add there would be a major meltdown in any fandom if a prominent character was suddenly confirmed to have bisexual inclinations, especially if it was a gay character turning bi, again rightfully so in my opinion.
This isn't even touching on the draconian Steam Code of Conduct which appeared as this controversy picked up steam, and has since never been addressed. You can see the code of conduct on KCD2's Steam discussion page, and it's absolutely awful.
Watching this entire drama unfold has convinced me not to buy the game. The entire way the gay romance has seemingly been slipped into the game, which honestly does feel like it's cow towing to left wingers/"journalists", and the actions by the devs have convinced me not to support the studio in its current form, and I say this as someone who loved and defended KCD1.
The Draconian code of conduct in question:
Don't be racist
Don't be sexist
Don't be homophobic
Don't spread neo-nazi ideology
I can see why you'd have a problem with it, yes...
Is there a black character that lectures henry about women and how they are treated better in the islamic lands to the west?
@@blooperman1997 And now I'm going to deem you a neo-nazi for dogmatic adherence to rules and ban you.
I feel you man. The moment they compromise the accuracy of the game and retcon stuff in order to pander, they lost what made the first game special. Because I certanly didn't play it for the gameplay experience
@@blooperman1997 It's not the code of conduct that was the problem, it's that it came right after the controversy started. It also included restrictions on historical discussions of religion and politics, which are naturally big topics of discussion for a KCD2 forum.
Essentially, it's not the content, it's the timing.
The problem is that they retconned Henry to be bisexual in this game. The gay romance in KCD2 involves Henry, the main character, and another male. In the first game, there was a homosexual character, Istvan Toth, and his lover, but this wasn’t super obvious until the lover accidentally revealed it in the heat of the moment. Even so, if you didn’t pay attention to the plot, you could have easily missed it. It didn’t feel forced and was handled appropriately. However, retconning Henry to be bisexual is absurd. Even if it’s "optional," that doesn’t matter-it’s now canon that Henry is bisexual.
“Yes , but hush your being the thing that we were against” ::gaslight:: paid by warhorse -TH-camrs
gays are pdf files. daniel vavra is a gay jew.
Would be based if they released the game like this then patched the romance option out of the game something like "we said the game would have diversity at launch, not that it would stay that way!" Sort of thing.
when was it ever announced that henry being bisexual was canon?
No it's not. That's like saying it's canon that the lone Wanderer blew up megaton in Fallout 3. THE DESCISION IS UP TO YOU! HE'S NOT GAY IF YOU CHOOSE THE WOMEN INSTEAD! YOUR HENRY, THE ONE THE BELONGS TO YOU, WILL BE STR8!
I'm the same way with Asmongold, but that is OK to agree sometimes and disagree other times.
How boring would it be if we agreed all the time
@@Ghoulza so long facts are shown, discussion or opinions are always welcome.
Yeah but Asmon is waaaaay far left on quite a few issues.
@Ghoulza If it was agreement on the truth with slight variances or caveats, it wouldn't be boring at all. It would be quite engaging.
@@bigguy7353asmon is a maga basement dweller.
if you think he is liberal on anything then germany 1940 was too liberal for you...
As this CEO once said, now after the success of the first game, they can make the game like they always wanted and this also includes as it seems this stuff.
I think he always wanted this in the game some form.
Games have been hiding the "message" recently though. They say its just a normal adventure then 3 hours in a half black half unicorn ogre is trying to date you.
What is your problem with the Half Black Half Unicorn Ogre?
Did you tell them you were unfortunately not interested?
Personally I am not at all interested in romance in games.
Same. I usually do them just for the achievements, lol.
@@oz_jones In KCD you NOT do them for achievements.
@@hosejathere is literally an achievement for courting Theresa…… what are you talking about????
Well I am, and so are most people. So suck it. It's optional anyway. Even in the first game it was optional. But, you guys only walk out of shadows like fucking cockroaches when it's an optional queer romance in a game that you have to say "wElL aCtuAlLY I DoNT lIkE rOmanCeS in My GaMes".
I like it being a thing. It's a normal part of life and the lack of romance would somewhat break immersion for me as it would feel artificial cutting that part of daily life out but keeping the rest. It grounds the character in the world more imo. Especially when the game is 18+ anyway there's no reason not to include the option in an open world simulator RPG.
I'm role playing as Henry and I wouldn't want to stay alone in the world nor stay a virgin for that matter, so I want my Henry to have a partner to come back to and brighten his day.
A previously established straight character suddenly turning bi in the sequel is some peak clown world DEI nonsense.
Myönnä bro
Well, it's not like he exactly had the option to experiment before, did he?💀
He can still be straight, you don't have to choose the gay option whenever it shows up. I understand why it might be hard for you to pass up on those choices when they appear.
the line "you will not do and see anything you don't want"
well it depends. what if i want to get all achievements in the game but i'd have to have the special time with a man for an achievement? i'll have to atleast initiate something i absolutely do not want.
1. then you don’t want all the achievements
2. It is skip able so no you don’t have to see it.
"I want a Lamborghini"
"I give you Lamborghini for [x]"
"But me no want do that!!!1!1"
Ma boy you don't even know if there will be an achievement about that lol
Stop being so sensitive. Seriously, "I have to initiate something I absolutely do not want"-if you have the time to get all achievements in a game (what a massive waste of your time), you'll be doing a lot of quests and things you don't actually want to do. Initiating a gay romance and skipping most of the scenes will hardly be the worst part of your achievement hunt lol
The Musa thing is the main thing I take issue with. I did try to find records of any islamic scholar visiting Bohemia during the period, and can't find any. The closest thing was Ibrahim Ibn Uaqub vising Prague in ~961, but that is centuries off aside from other issues. Likewise there is an Islamic scholar in the papal states during the correct time, but he also never goes to Bohemia. I ain't a scholar, but I did get help from my friend who teaches Anthropology and he couldn't find anything either yet. Unless KCD has a source which I don't have and they also just refuse to share, there doesn't seem to be much of a basis of having a random African scholar in the game. I am more than happy to change that opinion if someone can provide a singular source, but no where I inquired has been able too.
I guess if it isn't clear, the Musa thing is so far seemingly the example of them explicitly choosing to do modern politics representation without their being any justification. If they really wanted to include a random black guy, they should've had him be attached to a Venetian merchant as we know there are black men in Venice at this point of time. Even if there isn't a record of that occurring in the city the game takes place in, that is more plausible than just a random famous black scholar just happening to be in the area using a long Rube Goldberg-esque reasoning.
What Vavra said is that Musa is not historical, but he is not implausible either. Despite the fact that we have no surviving record of a Bohemian seeing a black African until the 1490s (in Portugal), there are after all many gaps in the historical record and I think storytellers are entitled to fill in the gaps as long as they do so in ways consistent with what we do know. And we do know that the Malian Empire had contacts with the Ottoman world (the king Mansa Musa visited Cairo in the 14th centurty), and the idea that a doctor or scholar from Timbuktu would travel to the Sultan's court is certainly not implausible.
Now, joining Sigismund's entourage is a bit more of a problem (as a Muslim, not as a black man), especially since Sigi's own father the Emperor Charles had forbidden Muslims to enter the Empire. But then again, Sigi was not big on obeying rules, and we know he did have diplomatic contacts with the Ottomans
@@bewawolf19 "they should've had him be attached to a Venetian merchant as we know there are black men in Venice at this point of time." It's really too early for that; 100 years later, certainly, but not really until the Portuguese had opened up the Atlantic seaways to the Gold Coast. Previously, about the only black Africans to be found north of the Sahara were in the Islamic world and came north via Alexandria
There's no record of a bastard son of Radzig Kobyla either but here we are, playing as Henry aren't we? It's not just about historical records being present or not, it's also about plausibility and interesting interactions in the game from a story perspective.
They're writing a game, not recreating history. As the disclaimer goes, it's a work of fiction and any resemblance to real life people living or dead entirely coincidental. The question therefore is not whether an Islamic scholar ever visited Bohemia in the 15th century, it's whether one feasibly could have, and if so how that would be likely to play out.
I don't get why they suddenly give Henry an option to be gay. he was a normal guy in the first game, and showed no hints of homosexual attraction or anything. So putting in a gay romance option for him just reeks of them giving in to the pressure. They certainly didn't feel the need to include such a thing in the previous game, so what changed now? If instead of henry you played a custom character you created on your own, then having a gay romance option would be understandable. But Henry is a character whose identity is already established.
I think it is fine. It would be weird if they suddenly made lord Hans gay or something but I think giving the player character an option is good.
I'm sure you can denounce the NPC, just like in the original
Putting Henry in a situation where he, ergo we, interact with a gay person is perfectly fine. Why? Cause that tends to happen in real life. (Of course, if you actually go outside and interact with people in different places). This whole aversion to people's sexual preferences is childish.
Because it's an RPG and gives players more choices and ways to express themselves. Plus in medeival context it can make for an interesnting story, same with the black guy being there
Theres nothing to suggest Henry will have an option to be gay.. even if he did you could already do a pig in the first one when you take "drugs" so doing something with a man isnt that much of a stretch. Either way I find it funny anyone here is willing to consider the Saudi Arabia as some kind of moral compass (even though the game wasnt even banned anyway....)
'It's optional', the good old start of the slippery slope. It wasn't optional in the 1st game, so why change it? For whom?
It was optional. Not a single one of the romances was necessary and there was an achievement for not doing any of them lmao.
He had an established romance with Bianca at the start of the game, stop talking out of your ass.
@@blooperman1997 So it was optional to have Bianca (Henrys girlfriend) get murdered in front of him?
The gay antagonist he mentions is one of the main antagonists, actually. I forgot their name and I forgot how you figure that out, actually at the time I thought they were throwing insults at him to call him gay because that's what they do, but people do say he was.
The monk in the monastery isn't an antagonist at all imo.
The monk in the monastery isn't an antagonist. The speculation ot he main antagonist being gay is they believed they captured his lover during the final battle, and attempted to use him to bargin. The antagonist blows up on this and threatens to kill all the hostages if he is harmed. Hence confirming this speculation for a lot of people.
Ok, and? Its Henry who is gae in KCD2. Already confirmed.
Ishtvan Toff and Erik. But to me they didn't even look like lovers. I thought they were Father and son.. KCD1 didn't make it very clear that they were gay at all. They didn't come out and say it; nor was it implied. Erik was just someone who was important to him. If they are gay in KCD2 they didn't become gay until the second game. I also heard that it isn't between them in KCD2 but between Henry and Hans, but that it's an optional quest
@Ambander-p3x So, aside from severely lacking in geography, history and means of transport, you have issues with reading and listening comprehension, as well? Poor you, it must be a terrible life...
@@ShadowOfDeadRhodes21 Istvan Toth and Erik couldn't have come out without losing all the respect from their own troops too, thereby completely ruining everything for them. It was implied they were gay, Divish or Hanush said they assumed it too. That's why they were very sure the plan would work exchanging Lady Stephanie and Talmberg castle for Erik. It was just very subtle and obviously they had to keep it secret. Same goes for Lucas in the Monastery, who never confirms it directly but from context clues in dialogue and the novice book it can be assumed he got banished to the Monastery for saying he liked men when his father tried to marry him to a woman.
Putting a black person from Mali of all places additionally naming him Musa is the peak of pandering. He is a clear reference to Mansa Musa (also known as "The Only Black Person From The Middle-Ages Lefties Know About"). If you don't realize this, there is no help for you.
What is the problem?
This.
@@franzliszt8957 It is the AC shadows treatment. Where's your pattern recognition ability? Are you even a gamer?
Also how did the guy get into Sigismunds army? Vavra said he was an envoy at Sultan Bayezids court which would mean the only time he could have seen Sigismund was at the battle of Nikopol which Sigismund lost decisively. Why would Musa join his court after seeing Sigismund engage in mortal combat with his fellow Sunni Muslims *and* lose? Why would Sigismund not immediately have him killed the moment he shows his face around him wearing the garb of a Muslim nobleman? It makes no sense.
@raketensven3127 Recognizing patterns if fascist, all information is to be ingested like a baby does milk.
It's about the dialogue of that pathetic shoehorned in character. It was clearly agenda based and not coming from a genuine place
Yes, if the same thing had been made in the 90s, I would think that it was an artistic choice. Now we know that it is just ideological conformity.
What did he say I'm having trouble finding it?
@@-V-_-V- He's talking up his homeland and saying the foreign place he's in is mid. Basically the most vanilla opinion of any human being in history lmao.
@@blooperman1997
Yes, and the consequence of that should be that he's rejected from the community. But we're not going to see that in the game, are we?
@ He's an attaché to an army lol. He's not part of the "community" to begin with and has no interest in becoming a part of it.
I 100% agree with your idea of historical accuracy when it comes to the inclusion of things like racial diversity or homosexuality, but I think it's only a third of the full equation for me. The other two thirds would be; does the inclusion add anything to the story, and most importantly is the inclusion used to push ideas or narratives that I find immoral. For example, if someone in the year 3000 makes a video game set in a coastal American city in 2025 it would be weird if everyone was White and straight. That being said if the game were to push a narrative about the racial diversity and non-hetero-sexuality that I find to be destructive and immoral then I'd dislike the game regardless of how historically accurate the inclusion of such groups would be.
I dont agree with you really but i also kinda do. First off, im not trying to stir something up but how is non straight relationships immoral, i personally cant fathom how it has anything to do with morals? And to add onto that, i think inclusion just for the sake of it, or doing it in a distasteful manner that insults both gay people and the players intelligence i.e baby inc, where inclusivity is tokenized to earn good boy points is stupid and destructive. I agree that black people is very unusual in 15c bohemia but also, kuttenberg was a big city with alot of foreign trade coming through so its not inplausible. Im all for just about everything as long as it creates a good story with exciting plot points, id dare say that homosexuality was lore relevant then due to the possible social consequences due to the church. We couldnt have a game though where the player if they had a gay romance were insulted in the regular, though despite how you would agree with it, it would alienate a lot of olayers, but having an optional gay romance although unimportant to me personally, wouldnt alienate someone like you because you wouldnt do it.
@@wrath-2187 Because gay relationship when widespread lead to a society's inevitable destruction. Men and women have spent millenias finding out how to live with each other. This fascination and idolatry of dysgenic behaviors will destroy us.
We have seen devs in the past give the sams answer no one was forced, we had in the first game blab blah then each new game they mane gets worse and worse until they start giving answers like racists, right wing, biggots, not made for you. Just give it time it will happen in a few years when they aren't making the money they want.
i agree metatron, i prefer when it is hinted at or slightly shown. and definitely short. its awkward when it goes on for too long
This drama seems so blown out of proportion. Even if Henry now had a gay romance option, you would never be forced to go after it. Even in the first game, romances were entirely optional. Besides, has there even been any confirmation that its Henry whos in that cutscene? It is probably just Istvan Toth, who has already been established to be gay in the first game. Lastly, isnt this the Drama that was mistranslated as gay when in reality it was just deemed offenive to the middle east?
Metatron I am a czech, I am conservative and he is in a czech context very conservative. Not extremist right! But a bit below that which is still on the ok respectable side (not for the crazy leftists but who is ok for them anyway).
The comparison with Mass Effect is so bad, apples and oranges, we already KNOW which way the character swings from KC1, he has already a personality, just like Witcher for example for a better comparison, he isn't a blank canvas
Fair video, but i understand the outrage and alot of companies are about to go under for making products with almost no audience.
the part I didn't like was the fact that influencers got the game 1 month earlier ....
I didn't know there was any drama...
KCD1 took me about 10 tries over several years to get into it for real, but once I did, I was ALL-IN. Played it for like 200 some hours. Definitely a Top 10 for me and I cannot wait for 2.
There is. It's possible you may not know much about history or current events. Not an insult, just a plausible explanation.
There isn't any drama. There was a mistranslated Saudi Arabian tweet about the game being banned for unskippable gay love scenes and anti-woke TH-camrs jump on the story like starving dogs before anything was verified.
Those idiots have now started a fire because every reactionary Twitch streamer is going to spread the videos and all context is going to be lost. I hate the internet sometimes.
@@AngelsLance there is h0m0 henry and blacksm no thanks.
The drama is overhyped nonsense by people being overly sensitive to wokeness (can't blame them after the bs pushed out last year) and people overhyping it for clickbait. It's a mistranslated saudi arabian tweet.
As Ross once said, "I'll buy it when I can get it for the price of a sandwich."
I see what you did right at the beginning... "Let me... Czech this"
In fact, there might be some ppl pre order it because they thought KCD2 is 0% DEI.
So that I could understand why they cancel pre order, cause DEI caused so much disappointment in many places, especially in game.
I appreciate warhorses work, but i also have some questions about why Henry can be gay, in KCD1 he has no gay intention.
Why every game has to have gay option just because DEI reason?
It's been a long time I've never play a game which doesn't try to turn me a gay or bi. Or in other words, there were always have gay options in romances. That's too much.
I can accept gay exist everywhere, but i have no interest role play it. Is it a crime that a game has no gay option?
Yes but is it also a crime to have a gay option? especially if its going to be for the freedom of the player?
Don't play the gay option then. I like when there's the option because straight Is always the default Yet gay people exist, and Guess what? I never play gay, It doesnt affect me in anyway. Even If my character was just gay and not bisexual It still wouldnt harm me because Im not gay and nothings gonna change that the same way a woman protagonist Isnt gonna make me trans
@@leonake4194 btw, sometimes gay option disguised very well.
sometimes I just choose to say something nice, then I open a gay romance.
If i have to load a 1hr save to prevent I become a gay, my feeling is like I fall into a trap.
Lot of ppl, enclude me, not want to be gay, just wanna be nice, then the gay way open.
so if a person doesn't want to be gay, has to choose the mean dialogue option to avoid to be gay.
sometimes something hide behind in the name of freedom.
@@leonake4194 btw, sometimes gay option disguised very well.
sometimes I just choose to say something nice, then I open a gay romance.
If i have to load a 1hr save to prevent I become a gay, my feeling is like I fall into a trap.
Lot of ppl, enclude me, not want to be gay, just wanna be nice, then the gay way open.
so if a person doesn't want to be gay, has to choose the mean dialogue option to avoid to be gay.
sometimes something hide behind in the name of freedom.
I do feel worry for the game, but I also do not pre-order games. We will see, won't we.
Hi Metatron, the game is full of politics. ...but politics that one of 15th century in Kingdom of Bohemia :D
I kept thinking the same thing. One of the first social events in kcd1 was a discussion about the king and whether or not to support him
1:45 Totally agree sometimes Asmon says something I generally agree with then he says something just off the wall.
Just think about this fellows: warhorse actively animated and put work into making a gay cut scene, that means they proactively thought about and executed the idea of making such a cut scene. And yes, it's indeed confirmed to be in the game...
The black guy is a literal we wuzzery meme, a king, misunderstood genius and a doctor all in one, who treats they women right. Because we all know their community has great statistics on that, whether black or muslim, and especially when they get do their taharrush game.
This is just straight up racist
So a polish company imported a character you have problems with and you took that as an opportunity to make a dig at black people because of that.
Also note worthy that you made a separate comment before this about how metatron was factually incorrect about the Roman’s hating everyone(they did btw). The part about it that upset you was the fact that he didn’t specifically describe the Roman’s distaste for ethnic tribes whom you directly refer to as “black people” for some reason.
Edit: Read another comment of yours talking about Metatron being “anti white” because he didnt point out Mr.Beast didn’t build homes for “His people”. I can’t be more clear as to what you are.
@@user-jt6rh8xy6n Spit it out then, what am I? You're a creep for one. It's clear you got nothing smart to say on the topic. For reference on what you mention, people in Antiquity and Middle Ages were racially aware and described the differences as much, there was no liberal egalitarianism back then. How bitter and naive do you have to be?
@@user-jt6rh8xy6n Back then it wasn't just "Africans". Africa is a big continent, the Romans were able to distinguish between the various ethnic groups there.
I’m sorry metatron, but I can’t see the inclusion of the option for Henry to be gay as nothing more than pandering. I am extremely disappointed and will be avoiding this one. I hope you have fun with it though.
I see it as curse of roleplaying in general.
Im of the same opinion it serves nothing but to pander to a demographic that won’t be buying the game anyways
Whether this demographic will or will not be buying the game is hardly an issue. What makes you say they won't? Considering you don't have to choose the option, it's generally good to include all possibilities in a Role Playing Game. You don't really suffer because the option is there anyway, so why be so bitter about it?
@@milkosek Because they took a character we liked from the first game and changed him for the sake of people that HATED the development team and tried to cancel the first game. It's also not "generally good" to include all possibilities in a RPG if the choices do not align with the setting, story, or characters. Geralt suddenly being able to sleep with men in the third game would have been weird and out-character and not a good thing to add to the game. Adding more choices is good but within the context of the story, character and setting (as I have already said).
@Anthony-uu2tk to clear up my confusion, Henry is follow up protagonist from first game?
Because it makes a bit more sense to be not happy about that change.
Although in general I'll be first to say I dislike games with Geralt (not that they are bad, just personally not my thing to play) because he is a well established character from the books, so it doesn't allow for a lot of roleplay.
I could be the devil's advocate and say since he was pretty young I believe and only in one game so far he could've changed somewhat. But now I understand a bit more. Not my game, so I'll abstain from forming an opinion.
Honestly, Warhorse Studio hasn't given me any reason to be overly concerned about this game, both on the kcd1 and their public declarations. They also sent copy for TH-cam Reviews a whole month before the launch, which means they are confident their public will like, and they know that a big part of their public are conservative guys and anit-woke people, and people who care about historical accuracy. I think they are one of the few studios that deserve a vote of confidence, or at least the benefit of the doubt. That said, I must say that having an options for Henry to be gay does bother me, mainly because Henry is not a placeholder mc, like in Skyrim, Baldur's Gate and most of RPGs, he is a set character with set personality and traits, just like Geralt in The Witcher, and just like him, Henry was set as straight on the previous game. But that won't stop me from playing the game, I just hope that Henry keep being the character he is in everything else, so the choices of dialogue we have aren't just all possible options, but the ones Henry would consider choosing.
All Vavra did was confirm suspicions and make things worse. He, Warhorse, and their owner THQ, has taken the page out of every single other woke developer's playbook.
Singled out a single sperg post and labeled them as a notsee, attempting to stop criticism and label all those that agreed with them as such when he posted with 'notsees' (plural) not liking "the scene". They've hired woke CMs. They've made woke partnerships with other studios/firms. They changed their CoC to be not surprisingly anti-white/western. They were vague and said to "trust us" and to not believe what they see on the Internet, yet it was all true. And they made these inclusions for nothing more than greater progressive representations into the setting, contradicting previous statements on the existence from people like Vavra himself, which is a woke value.
If you DON'T think that this is woke, then you would surely also not call female custodes woke either. Just don't buy those models then, it's your army. It's only woke when YOU want it to be. Right? No. Refunded days ago, and their reaction has done nothing but let me know it was the call to make.
These TH-camrs were paid by warhorse to be neutral and elude to the fact it’s fine even if it’s retconned.
@@WAAAAAAGH all this over what? have you played the game yet? This is something I’d expect to see under dragon age veilguard comments, not a game that has good pedigree and hasn’t been released yet.
@@Jc95nonononon I've seen playthroughs of demos by people who got keys to it. But OP's statement makes sense when you notice a lot of them don't speak about the story/cut scenes so far.
@Jc95nonononon Did you play Concord? Veilguard? TLoU2? Dustborn? Did you buy them, try them out yourself, and make your judgements based off of your own experiences all to be unable to get a refund after the fact if/when they were seen to be incredible disappointments?
We have pattern recognition. These things are never rolled back or stay the same. It is constantly progressed once it secures a hold and always gets worse. I'm not hitching myself to another compromised franchise just to see it fall like the other titles of the past. Look at the "pEdIgReEs' of all the great studios of yester-decade. Speaking of, it's been the better part of a decade since KCD1 came out. Time goes by, changes are made, you start calling your customers 'notsees' when they don't accept your bent knee to your woke parent company and consultancy firms, and you lose the trust you once had. with your base that you purposefully courted.
You want to buy it, go ahead. For me, it's a guilt free experience after sailing the high seas.
@WAAAAAAGH
You covered things pretty well, all I could add is that they are supposed to make us want to play their games. We don't need to "trust" or "be loyal".
So if you choose the actions that make Henry gay, you'll probably get a bunch of debuffs and make the game unplayable. Branded as gay with a hot iron on your face and then every merchant will increase prices and no one would want to talk to you.
Doesn't even matter what you choose. By giving the option, Henry has already been made Bi, if nothing else.
All i know is that an established gay character would never in a million years be made straight in a sequel. Couldnt care less for KCD2 at this point, jog on Warhorse.
What the hell I'm doing at the bottom of this ravine, i swear i was on top of that slippery slope a minute ago.
Its an rpg with a quest or romance option like baldurs gate. You can make whatever choice you wish or not even do the quest which would make your character or version of Henry however you want to play him. If you want Henry to be an archer and garbage at sword fighting you can, its the players choice.
@@Oscar-mh7ez An option you have to _actively seek out_ and isn't even guaranteed to generate from what I understand to boot.
Mentally feeble.
Any time that someone tries to release a gay to straight mod on Nexusmods, it gets banned by the highly tolerant left.
When I heard about a gay scene in the game I didn't make much of it. But Henry? No. They established Henry as a straight character already. Having a gay romance option stinks of the usual suspects forcing THE MESSAGE. As for the justification that it is an RPG, it is NOT an RPG where you make up whatever character you want. It is an RPG where you play as an established main character. The choices you make will vary the experience but Henry remains Henry, you don't make your own Henry with blue hair and a nose ring and five genders at the beginning. It is the story of HENRY, the straight guy we all know from the first game. And then there's the usual superior black man from a superior black culture, which also reeks of the usual suspects forcing THE MESSAGE. No, thank you. If the political climate were different, if people weren't absolutely sick of THE MESSAGE being shoved into everything, these choices wouldn't matter much. But everyone stood by Warhorse because what they were doing was different, so these changes indicate a betrayal of principle.
Ah yes, the superior black culture of the slave empire of Mali.
YOU establish the character. With your choices throughout the game. Some people's Henry murdered innocent people, some stole, some didn't do any of that. Why is THAT not seen as a big deal in how the character is seen as? These are all choices you make in how you see the character of Henry behave through YOUR own eyes.
Why does diversity mean a black person? Why isn't there a chinese person who came through the mongol empire? That would be just as far fetched. The reason for any of this is to pander to left wingers.
I mean Cummans were come from Central Asia, and they are nomad Turks tribal too, that doesn’t count?
@@clementdeformosa8885 They became assimilated into Hungarian society.
@@Berzelmayr In language they speak, maybe. But the weapon and the clothes they use still has very strong central Asia style.
@ KDC 1's Cuman armor would be accurate for high Medival times, not for 1403. They just wanted to have something "exotic" for the game.
Because we're inside American politics. For americans, its all about skin color. Some people in there call asians as "white adjacent" because guess what? they aint black
Maybe Warhorse should depict Islam accurately :)
Oh noes. You can't do that. Then the religion of peace will continue to spread pieces of you. ;)
yes as a 5avage faith, After all they want to make it authentic. I want to see that kind of depiction that it would Make the i5l@mic world ban it. It would be very funny.
The only reason I'm not getting the game is that the lead dev started to spurg out on twitter and alienated content creaters that agreed with him.
And If they made an european medieval game without the gay stuff?
If they add sex everywhere, then gay stuff is kind of accurate.
I would rather question, whether there need to be sex or sexual romance in every rpg.
Homosexual romances have been more spread back then, than people usually believe.
Not necessarily accepted or open lived, and surely not the norm, but it happened often enough, for being a topic, that the church worked against and tried to convince the people to harden laws - also inside the church.
Though it was not only about homosexually.
@jerome6383 gay sex, for obvious reasons, was something very rare in Middle Ages. Thus this reeks of LGBT+ agenda.
I mean, it doesnt really matter. If homosexuality is intelligently written into the medieval european setting then it is brilliant, not because gay is automatically good, but because it is a relevant topic for the setting regarding how the church, and by extention society viewed it. If it is written in to score inclusivity points, i would be offended because it would be a soulless mockery of just about everyone both gay and straight. Either way, whatever lgbtq topics is written in are most likely going to either fly over everyones heads or be fully optional, and if the game would regularly insult gay people then it would regularly insult a considerable ammount of the people playing it
@@wrath-2187 some people like the insertion of the alphabet agenda in everything.
@SuperEnforcer88 what is the lgbtq agenda tho? I mean gay people were relevant in the middle ages and it could make for a good plot point like for istvan toth, and how it could affect him socially among other noblemen. Besides, nobles had it easy with homosexual interactions, pheasants did not and were ostracised, but aomething tells me thats what alot of people like about the setting which is in bad faith
Metatron claims that KCD is "one of my favourite games ever" but he doesn't even know what Woman's Lot is?
I've tried to erase playing as Theresa myself, so I don't blame him for not remembering by dlc name alone.
I think it's his favorite just in terms of how the armor and architecture is presented.
Im trying to to that dlc, keeps making the game wig out when I try.
@ I had to start a brand new playthrough to get it to work properly.
I played like 100 hours of kcd and never once touched the DLCs. It's not that unheard of really.
About homosexuality in a historical context:
in the Holy Roman Empire and southern Germany specifically, because this is the region I studied during my B.A. at the university of Tübingen, homosexuality was not a worldly crime for most of the middle ages. Even sodomy (anal sex) was not a worldly crime until the 13th century, but simply a sin - a form of "luxuria". Your local priest could order your to pray for absolution, but your local lord could not harm you. It slowly changed in the second half of the 13th century and your local ruler/judge could condemn you to a death sentence for sodomy, but never for homosexuality in general.
Simply said: in Henry's time (1403) kissing, hj, bj were weird but per se not a crime, but anal sex was punishable by death.
Thanks for the info and very interesting what changed in the middle of the 13th century that made it a death penalty or was it just a gradual change?
I am not woke, I am not anti-woke , I am just sleepy
Based tbh
Its simple, this was pushed into the game, its only there because financial backers forced it. And as the saying goes, give them an inch, they’ll take it a mile. Many people are tired of it, political agendas, no matter how small you think it be, has no place in games.
Buy it yourself and consoom the product. I'm done with every piece of media that doesn't want me as a customer. And yes, advocating for any leftist political views is enough to make me drop this one. Henry was never a bisexual and was a God-fearing Christian, so it makes little sense to have him sword fight under the bedsheets this time, even if it's up to me if he does it.
They could have spent the development time in new quests, more loot, better performance... anything but this really solemn take on LGTV oppression in 1400's Bohemia. Nobody asked for this crap.
And the icing on the cake is this Musa fellow who has come to Europe to preach the safety and feminist ways of the slaving kingdom of Mali. They can shove it.
They slapped me on the face, I was trying to defend them a few days ago saying all that was just rumors, let's wait, but there's no doubt anymore that they are slowly bending their knees.
snowflake
Oh you poor little thing, go hide before that one optional gay scene makes u dumb af. Wait, u already are ! Then dont worry mate, just play it before u make assumptions about quest u not gonna even do. Just go into bath house, take some nice lady and keep ur ass shut.
Based department.
lol I just looked into Mali during that time period yeah thats hilarious almost like the movie woman king tried to pain the african tribe that sold slaves and fought the british to keep doing it as the good guys
The whole controversy is fucking stupid if you ask me.
Im gonna play as a hard core Christian when KCD2 comes out
what kind?
so like evangelicas in america?
(crazy, racist, bigoted and wanting to k!ll everyone who isnt taliban like them?)
because thats always been christianity.
this entire, it spread peacfully is nonsense.
if isis took over, they would state they were loved by all upon their arrival...
Soooo.... an evil playthrough?xD
@@Vasiliy9hellsmore like Lawfull Good
@@Vasiliy9hells Grow up
I honestly have good expectations despite the drama. The first game already had a side quest with a monk who liked men and, like "The Name of the Rose", it accurately depicted gayness in the medieval church in a way that didn't feel preachy like Veilguard. I think nothing about this subject will be handled in a different way in the sequel
Your moving the goalpost. Retconning an established character is very much woke.
@@speckbretzelfan is the wokeness in the room with us right now? Every romance in the first game is optional, yes, Henry is portrayed as liking women in the prologue but there is basically nothing in their suggesting he couldn't like men, which, _again_ is an optional romance route in a role-playing game where you can make your character be what you want him to be. Snowflakes man.
@@speckbretzelfan there's no retcon brother, if Henry turns out gay in the second game it's because YOU chose the option to romance a guy.
@@jossecoupe446 Consoomers like you are so pathetic. Zero principals. You're like a drug addict waiting for the next fix.
@@speckbretzelfani dont see any retconning here. And if you want to think emotionally like that without seeing reason, you might as well switch to the woke side. It would be very fitting.
I can understand why people are angry even at the optional gay Henry. They interpret it as "straight is bad". That there can be no straight characters in gaming, the best you get is bi. Personally I consider bi as the best option for games where you "create" character (ME, BG3), but not for game with established characters (Witcher). A lot of players saw KCD2 as the latter, while we got the former.
Other than one black legend of news on TV Nova, I never saw a single black person (discounting videogames and some few movies) till I went on a school exchange trip to London. Every single exchange family there were black and I vividly recall myself and many others being terrified of those people and pretty much since that thay I became a proponent of ethnostatism.
What country are you from?
You just admitted to being a racist online.
The "gay antagonist" was Toth. It was heavily implied but this doesn't come up until the very end of the game.
i didnt made a lot from the middle eastern ban on an scene, what made me not wanting to play the game was the constant deleting of the people asking about it in the forum while leaving up themes like the bigots this or the homophobos that
That's why we need to let these big gaming companies that are destroying the industry fail
There will always be smaller studios who need to earn our trust and support who still make products that we want. They can grow into the space left by the companies we don't need anymore
I was sad when I heard that Warhorse was being bought out. You never know what kind of deals are being made behind the scenes.
@Hedgehobbit but if there's space people will fill the vacuum
There's too much money to be made for them to just dump the industry wholesale. New passionate people will continue to make games after
The thing is that Vávra lied to his fans, tried to cover everything up, and now he's playing the victim.
Who gives a shitt. Accurate armor and handgonne go buhrrr; Only snowflakes fear gays
The single black guy is what they should have done in the japanese Assassins creed. An interesting side character with unique quest line. But nothing more. Main character is what destroyed the game. I'm anti woke hardcore but even I thought it would be cool to have like 1 black guy or 1 chinese merchant thats lost as hell in Bohemia for some reason and some funny interactions.
There were 0 bIaks or chinamen in medievaI Bohemia, though.
It's just an opportunity to malign the "narrow-minded, bigoted" locals
@ Well if you watched the video, there was 1 black guy who was in the army historically, which they can use to insert a black guy. This is a thing used often by hardcore reenactors. Like how they can get Asians in strict American revolutionary war reenactments. Because in history 1 Asian guy who happened to be there, any Asian that takes part in the hobby will be that guy in the roleplay. Just like how half black guys in Japan who do reenactments ALWAYS play the Yusuke role. It was under the assumption if they DID cave in to the woke and deviated from historical accuracy, it would be pretty funny to have a random Chinese silk trader there that you had to help get home.
@@Hathathorne No, there wasn't a historically black guy in the army . This is the justification for the character in the game. You said you are a anti woke hardcore but didn't even check the source. Nice bait.
@@paulodelima5705 Naw, metatron himself didn't even refute it so it must be grounded in truth.
100% agree with Metatron on Asmongold's takes being a complete dice roll. Part of the man's charm, admittedly - you can rarely guess what he'll be saying next.
It makes zero sense for main character suddenly deciding being gay(if you choose so). This option is clearly put there just to please some people. Yes you can ignore it, but why they even include something like this. Do you really buy that shitty argument about role play?
Yea, Henry doesn't exist irrespective of you the player. If you want him to be gay, make him gay, if you don't, don't. Find something actually worth getting angry about other than the DEI/woke boogeyman. 'Gamer' is gonna become a slur at this rate with the way people engage with the medium, I swear.
@@Bjorn-sl9jr you could argue that it was weird to not have gay option in the first game and that this is just rectifying the lack of freedom in the first. there were already gay characters in the first game so it's not even like it's all that crazy to have the option for Henry to also be gay.
@ No. Having one side character gay does not mean everyone needs to be gay. That is crazy.
@@Bjorn-sl9jr first of all, the main antagonist was gay, if you had actually played the game. there were also multiple gay characters throughout the game. it wasn't just one side character.
Second noone is claiming that everyone should be gay, you're making up a boogeyman. in a game about roleplaying, having a gay option for the main character (and likely story beats on how that might be handled during the time period) is perfectly reasonable - so long as it's optional
No. I do not buy that. It should never be allowed to be an option.
I knew this stuff would happen when the woke crap started being pushed into games, knew it 100%. Way back in high school, I created a game in which one of the characters happened to be gay. Yes, it was a bit surprising to some (this was 2008), also because the character did not behave in a stereotypical manner. He was very masculine, and the relationship with the other guy, was modeled very much after how warriors of the old world viewed such relationships.
I did not show them in any sort of sexual manner, or slobbering on each other, I didn't feel the need to and given how they treated their relationship, I felt they would not want to emulate the male/female dynamic in any sort of way.
I did not feel the need to remind people the two were lovers, it wasn't really important and wouldn't make sense to focus on either. Story-wise, one of the guys was seen as a problem, because he was not human, but thought he was. Everyone thought the characters were interesting, cool with some even forgetting the two were lovers, and joked saying they were, "bromosexuals" or in an "intense bromance," which I thought was funny. In remaking the game, I know many on one side will deem it "woke" just because there is a dude in love with another dude. Though on the woke weirdo side, because both men are VERY masculine, and there is no promotion of LGBTQ propaganda, they will also scream as well and naturally want things canceled.
I greatly despise this Marxism, because it destroys art especially, turning everything into dumb shit, along with people against each other as it is designed to do. It is an evil thing really. The game, was a JRPG style game, heavily inspired by both Chrono Trigger and Xenogears (no time travel or giant mechs to pilot though), you traveled to 3 different worlds, and was basically almost how I wished a Phantasy Star V would be, and we worked hard to have it look like PS1 Guilty Gear. It was called, "Planetary War Chronicles Armament of Volition."
didn't the greek sources only refer to pederasty? From what I remember neither Metatron nor anyone else ever provided an example from ancient greece of a relationship between two adult men, unless they were lying and claimed that zeus kidnapping teenage ganymed was somehow a love between two adult men.
No. Greek sources about Spart are not pederasty and you can also check Alexander the great and his male lover.
@@paulodelima5705 well, then provide a spartan example. And how old were Alexanders male lovers supposed to be? And wasn't he maccedonian and not greek?
Henry and Hans go to the bathhouse, but without the bath maids.
It's another instance of devs lying through their teeth till the very last moment. I'm honestly sick and tired of this.
Coming from a french background I still find this dubious. I mention said background because I don't know how culturally specific this little factoid is but Bohemia has always had this bad rep of being somewhat of a degeneracy place. Not outright, not to the level of Sodom and Gomorrah but everytime I've seen Bohemia or a bohemian mentioned, more often than not it had this kind of connotations attached.
So the very choice of this place is implying something else. I don't know, it might be a typically french prejudice, we got many of those, but still.
Making this stuff optional is how they get their foot in the door. 1 to 3 games down the line, it'll not be so optional anymore.
What is “this stuff”? Gay people? 🤨
Henry isn't some blank slate, he is straight, and as far as I understand, it takes more than a few speech choices to magically want men.
So, now I'm not buying this game.
you are so gay
Good for you, vote with your wallet, and other will buy it anyway.
Is he straight? How do you know, do you have access to his internal feelings? Oh that's right, he's not real. How do you know if a person is not hiding something, or maybe he's struggling with something? You don't know.
Do you realize that many people are straight until the day they notice they aren't, some even just mess around because they want to try (I'm not saying it's good but it happens), I've met guys who turned at 40yo already married, it happens so much.
Maybe you should listen to gaeh people, talk to them and listen to their experiences, they are human beings, instead of listening to what people tell you about gaeh people just talk to them, because if you only listen to your side, it's just an echo chamber of hatred.
Also, isn't it realistic that the character can fall and "sin"? After all you can play as evil, so why is this a bridge too far to "sin"? I suspect it's because of your ideology.
Chill out man, i have been against woke for more than a decade, i know more about this than 99% of the people, this kind of attitude is hurting our objective and pushing good developers away, we can't act unhinged, i think you are listening to the wrong people, people with their own agenda.
@bigwezz yup, anyways.
Yar har, fiddle de dee
Being a pirate is alright to be
Do what you want 'cause a pirate is free
You are a pirate!
@@CoastalReactionTHE PIRATES LIFE ME!
How necessary is it to play the first game? I'm really excited for the second but I'm not sure I'll have time to get through the first
Ok, so I am one of those people that doesn't like the recent news about the game and probably I'm not gonna buy it. At least not on launch.
With the gay stuff. It's not a problem that there are gay people in the game. There were some gay characters in the first one. The problem is that they gave Henry an option to be gay/bi where in the previous game there was 0 evidence that he is intereseted romantically in other men. It comes off as "pinkwashing" and shallow pandering. Henry is not a self instert/tabula rasa, he is his own character with his own back story and sudden change like that leaves a bad taste.
Second of all. The black scholar. There would be less backlash if Vavra (the game director) himself didn't take a strong stance against black characters in the first game. "Would you please explain to me whats racist about telling the truth? There were no black people in medieval Bohemia. Period."- Direct quote from Vavra from few years back. So adding a black character now comes off as another tokenistic gesture. It also doesn't help that the character seems very smug about his "surperior" culture towards women.
The cherry on top is Warhorse being bought by Embracer Group in 2019. A VERY progressive company that isn't shy to boast about the messaging in their games. People think that all those features are a direct result of that.
All in all the messaging might just end there and the game is going to be mostly good. But anyone that follows the "culture war" knows that it is never enough for the ideology. And eventually you end up with Dragon Age: Veilguard or Concord. Might not be this game or even their next one but eventually they're going to get there if people don't say "enough".
This game is pure DEI sIop.
There were no bI a ks in medievaI centraI Europe.
@Ambander-p3x Amazing. Another racist. Why call them "blaks" instead of just black people? Besides, one traveling black man isn't the end of the world.
As always: 1) never pre-order 2) Drop it at the first sign of woke infiltration.
There is no reason to trust anything if you don't preorder. This is the way.
Its not like people have a knife to their throat to buy it blindly on day one, i preordered and i couldnt give a rats ass about they griftey drama being stirred up, all of it is such a non issue. Im here for sword fighting, cool plots and tomfoolery in the late middle ages
There is always time to shift into distrust. Give them a chance
That's my point exactly. People have no patience these days.
They will use that "he is not gay, just bi" excuse.
hehe Someone in the comments of this very video is already using that excuse.
gay and bi do not exist. they are simply pdf's.
He's not bi either. He's whatever you roleplay as. If you want him to be bi, that's on you.
Problem is Henry is Henry, he's not a self insert and he has certain lines (A LOT OF LINES) you have zero control over no matter how you play him. And he's straight as a board in the first game, so why change him? It's pandering, that's what it is.
No the excuse is: it's optional
Henry seeing a PoC for the first time in his life is gonna be fun. A bit like in the French movie " les visiteurs" when 2 men from the middle ages somehow get into our present time and meet a black guy, such a fun scene.
I'm stunned to say this but... no, I don't trust him.
I think it's glaringly clear that Warhorse have fallen under pressure from their parent company to add at least a token of diversity in the game. Whether Warhorse themselves actually wanted to or not, we might never find out. It is disappointing, but ultimately not surprising in this day and age. DEI has made its way into almost every crevice of Western society at this point.
The question isn't if the gay romance is in the game- the question is why was it even put in the game as an option?
People are missing the point, its being put in the game to condemn it by representing how medieval people viewed it.
because its a gay game
Sure, you try to convince yourself that that was the motive. But I doubt Henry's gonna get whipped or placed in the stocks if we choose the gay romance option.
@@gulanhem9495 we don't quite know yet. And it would be based if that happens
The problem is over the years so much DEI was pushed into gaming that I don't want to play a game where even historical gay is present.
give examples where DEI and DEI alone is the direct cause for a studios downfall. U guys love using fearmongering tactics on shit that doesn't even exist.
@perc6685 I don't have to give you any examples for me being disgusted by DEI, but if you have to ask me that, you haven't paying attention to what has happened in gaming. And a studio doesn't have to flop for me to be disgusted by DEI, the hell are you talking about?
Cliffy Bs last big fps shooter lawbreakers when he spent all his time going on about the bathrooms to 'market' it, does concord need to be mentioned too?😂
The problem is their blind adherence to ideological conformity. They don't care if it is historical or not, just force diversity everywhere at all time.
I'll never understand this :D just how much influence have these things over you? Can you not just ignore it and move on?
The phrase I think of when I see this in media is "valor isn't hereditary"
In the 90s and before we saw these things and it was "hey wouldn't it be cool?" These things were done for lines or skits inside the medium for entertainment value.
Now a days though it's seems to be as a justification.
In historic material it's generally followed with "see (insert culture) did it" or "this is the 'true' history".
In entertainment it's used to give the impression of larger demographic or as a gotcha moment when you enjoy such media.
The groups in question use distinguished moments in media and history to distract from poor present perception and rather than trying living a praise worthy life they deflect with historic or fictional characters.
I think this drama was so overblown by some people who just wanted to stir shit.
youre absolutely right this is all so unnecessary
Agree 100% this was all a big grift from some select TH-camrs.
it's nothing more than gaming tabloid shit
It generates alot of clicks, and honestly it poisons the well in a way for me. It smells alot like grift and i refuse to let it deter me from kcd2, but i feel negative feelings around the game when antiwoke people claim ownership over the kcd fandom as if its some bastion against "the nasty queers", it just feels fucked up in a way. Either way, im all for lgbtq themes in games especially historic settings because it can shine a light on the topic in an intelligent way, and not like the baby inc lobbying that tokenizes and makes a mockery of acceptance and diversity and that serves no one well
Turning Henry gay in 2nd game means nothing is overblown.
This is the over-correction we've been dreading on. I do agree that the sudden change to Henry from straight to having options of the same sex in the 2nd game is annoying, its good that it isn't forced (you really have to go out of your way to get that option I'm assuming). The drama just got over blown by some people who didn't even played the first game or have any modicum of knowledge of history.
There is never a consensus on what 'fair' is in any context. Any time anyone says they are being 'fair', we all know it just means that person has an authority complex.
If anyone's curious to see how much of a hypocrite Vavra is, just look up his tweet from 2015.
"Thanks to popular demand by history revisionists & for the sake of accuracy let me introduce you to our protagonist!"
The implication (in case you missed it) is that there were no blacks in medieval Bohemia and thus, there would be none and indeed were none in his game. My oh my, how his tune changed in just 10 years.
Are you able to understand that there’s a difference between having a single foreigner in one of the largest centers in Europe at the time, like Kutná Hora, through which trade routes from as far as Asia passed, and forcibly inserting them into the Sázava region, where you wouldn’t find a black person even today?
I can't wait for the mods that will replace that doctor character with Martin Lawrence.
@@marty.m2933 Cope. There's zero evidence of anything like that happening in Bohemia. Literally no reason for him to be there when even the emirates and kingdoms of his own culture/religion were so divided. This guy's supposedly a doctor and a scholar and not one of his own people wanted him? Not one of the neighboring rival kingdoms wanted to stick it to the other by harbouring him? Get real please.
@ I have no idea-I haven’t played the game yet, so I can’t tell you why he isn’t at home and is traveling with the army. I’m also not an expert on African medieval law, so I don’t know if doctors had the right to travel (though I assume they did). What exactly he’s doing there is something I assume you’ll find out in the game.
However, my reaction is about your reference to Vávra’s statement that there were no black people in Bohemia. Well, there weren’t, and it makes sense that there weren’t in the first game. But they could theoretically have appeared occasionally in the most important centers, which Kuttenberg is. I’m not saying it would have been a common sight, and surely people would have reacted to them accordingly. I admit it would be quite a coincidence.
That said, unlike in Sázava, a rare foreigner in Kutná Hora doesn’t strike me as entirely impossible. And most importantly-and this is the main reason I commented on it-I don’t think it contradicts Vávra’s original statements, which were about the setting of the first game.
The character is there to push an agenda. Vavra is a hypocrite. He wasn't being hyper specific referring to villages and cities in that tweet. The people he was ridiculing weren't either. Again this is just copium. "B-b-but it's poooooossible!" - It's also possible and far more likely that no such character would be present anywhere in the region. So ask yourself why are you seeing this? What part of the vision of medieval Bohemia, urban or rural, would be cheapened for the exclusion of an African character that died long before the game's set period and has no business being there? The answers are obvious.
The gay option would have way bigger narrative consequences then a simple romance option. There is a reason very very few people displayed their homosexuality openly. The addition of this seems more like checking a box.
*edit: I agree that it could work as long as they are willing to fit it in contextually within the history, but it is still a Western Dev in the year 2025 and I for one no longer can believe them at their words. Just have to wait for the game to come out...
You know nothing yet you are judging.
He said there may be serious consequences... I don't know but gay romance = being burned at stake for sodomy doesn't sound as checking a box to me.
@@Filipsan You know nothing as well and are also judging
It's a relatively small issue really, but in the context of warhorse gaining popularity based on being the only anti woke, anti identity politics, anti activism game developer instead focusing on history, that being their entire selling point, I can see why their fans are skeptical
Endymiontv just posted a video on this. Seems like that is exactly how it's treated in the game.
So they felt the need to change one of the main protagonists to be potentially gay?
Ok, they can do whatever they want.
But same is true for me -> I won't buy the game.
0 tolerance any longer.
"The rewards for tolerance are treachery and betrayal."
Based.