Steve, good video. We have an older Island Packet with a longer keel but back and fill (standing turn as we call it) was part of the sailing lesions we attended prior to buying the boat.. We’ve amazed friends who own a fin keel boat by turning Panacea in a tight marina. I will say that I do have bow thruster envoy. I can see your point...who needs a spring line. Your videos are really great. Fair Winds.
Thanks Tom, Island Packets are great boats, good choice. The bow thruster is a game changer. My father had a 50 foot steel ketch with no thruster and a prop/rudder configuration that meant back & fill didn't work very well. We used to use spring lines all the time I enjoyed doing it as crew but the thought of getting Judy to run around with the ropes! Well for the sake of our marriage I'm very glad of the thruster!
Great description of back and fill! The other issue with marine diesels is not getting them up to temperature. We primarily use them for docking and charging the batteries with only occasional long motoring usage. They have to be run under a significant load to heat up which prevents carbon build-up or even glazing the cylinder walls in extreme cases. This happened with my Yanmar 2GM20F which had only used for Wednesday night racing for 10 years before I bought it.
Yes agreed! I think using the main engine to charge batteries has probably ruined more marine engines than anything else! Luckily we've got a Genny so don't need to ever do that. Hopefully the advances in solar and battery technology will mean even that's redundant soon.
@@svfairisle Love your videos. Solar and wind generators meant we never used the engine or genny to charge. We had a 135W solar panel and the smallest Rutland. All boat lights were Led. We also never ran a freezer, just a fridge (top opening) We were in Australia though with plenty of sun and wind. I think at this stage even now, if you want a freezer you need a genny. If you can live with a fridge then solar and wind will keep on top of it. Pay attention to insulation.
Geat technique! I was hoping you could answer a question for a novice. Planing on getting a cool Halman/Narca 20 either or and I want to launch it off a ramp will that be difficult with a draft of just under 3 ft. I'll be moving it with a Frontier Nissan 6 cylinder. probably should go for a smaller boat but I think these English/Canadian boats are beautiful.... Thanks for the video.
i'd like to see more long keel marina moves, but without the bow thruster ;) noby explains it well, but i found your video informative, and definatly would like to see you steer in reverse :)
I will show reversing at some point, but don't expect much actual steering! Basically I start going aft and wait and see which way she's going to go! We have a very small amount of prop walk to port so its usually that way, but not always! Basically you'ld have to orientate the boat with a little back & fill blast forward and then ease her backward until she goes out of line then a quick bast forward again with the rudder hard over depending on which way the boat needs turning and so on. The easier method is reverse, stop the boat, or slow right down, when out of line and use the bowthuster to orientate the boat again before continuing going aft. Yes I know that's cheating!
@@svfairisle i only ask as a long keeler center console is on the list for our next boat... but having a fin keel stern cockpit right now i know i take for granted how easy it is to dock currently without any bow thrusters. and easy access to the pontoons. I dont mind cheating either so i probably should just factor the cost of a bow thruster into it and be done with it. That way i could go astern where i actually want to go using the bow thruster as a rudder! (im sure you know how busy UK marinas can get!) Its more desirable to have astern steerage in the med of course, although (presuming) once you drop the anchor that would keep the boat pretty straight while reversing the stern upto the quay.
The key to being able to manage a long keeled boat in close quarters (as well as the bow thruster) is making sure the long keeled boat has the prop close to the rudder. On some long, but not full keeled boats, that have a cut away after the keel and a skeg hung rudder, the rudder is too far away from the prop to use the prop wash effectively as a sideways thrust. These boats are REALLY hard to manoeuvre! and i've seen some with stern thrusters fitted as well as bow thrusters. I can manoeuvre Fair Isle better than a modern fin keeled boat now thatI'm usedto her. Okay I cant reverse down the fairway in a marina in a straight line, but complicated tight turns are no problem. Med mooring I normally do bows to. Most have slime lines these days and I use the kedge if not.
As a possible future 'Tech Corner' video, I'm interested to see you putting in a reef given that none of your lines are led aft. The norm is to do it all from the cockpit so would be interesting to see how you get this done. Dean
Yes very good idea Dean, I'll do that. It probably is the norm with most sailors. I was first told not to lead lines (especially reefing lines back) by a very experienced sailor years ago & talking to the guys on last years GGR they do it this way. The reason is the extra drag introduced by leading your reefing lines around several 90 degree rollers means it's virtually impossible to grind the reef in properly while still on the wind. I do it in stages, drop a bit then grind it in without altering course, just easing the boom. It's not a racing thing, i'm not a racer, I just think it's safer to not have the main banging around and sometimes turning in certain swell conditions isn't good. I'll try & make sense of it in the video!
@@svfairisle Easing the boom with your kicker? I'm intrigued as I agree, keeping the same course is often really important. If you make a video of this I'll be very keen to see. Thanks. Dean
But here's the thing, if you rely on your bow thruster too much you don't develop the skills to do without, ie if the bowthruster packs up. Also, a point on diesel engines. You are bang on correct when you say that diesels need a good blowout now and again, esp if they have a turbo fitted. But why have a turbo in the first place, it's another thing to go wrong. Turbo's spin at 200000 rpm so the oil needs to be top grade and changed regularly. Here's a tip, check the oil feed pipe to the turbo on a regular basis or just change it. Any sludge or deposits in there will restrict the oil flow. Also, let the motor tick over for a couple of minutes before shutting it down. This allows the turbo to slow down and cool off. It will still be spinning when the engine stops. Also, I recently saw a yacht with a VW engine with the common rail electronic diesel injection fitted. If the alternator fails and the battery voltage drops too much, the engine won't run. At sea, give me a simple mechanical injection engine anyday. Love the videos.
Yes I agree, turbos on a boat are a nonsense, I’ve no idea why designers think they are a good idea. I do manoeuvre without the bow thruster on occasion, for that berth it was a necessity, I simply would not have gone down into that spot if we didn’t have a working thruster
Purchased a 35' long keel this year without a bow thruster, thanks for video, I did work this out eventually, but when going into Marina I always say I have a long keel and plenty of fenders! I did get a tad frustrated but would not part with her now as the comfort factor is v good, just have to understand springs. Concern about stern mooring in the Med but that's a couple of years from now, any ideas?
I shared your concerns about Med moorings. I tend to go in bow first though, more privacy that way and we can step off the bow sprit. Nothing to do with not wanting to make an arse of myself trying to reverse in! Well that's my line and I'm sticking to it!! My concerns really came from sailing the Med many years ago in Greece where there weren't any slime lines laid and you had to use a kedge anchor to keep you off. It was always really difficult to do even with a full crew so I wondered how we would cope. But it seems that most places have lines now, here they certainly do and I'm told the Eastern Med also use them now so it's just a matter of picking up the line from where it attaches to the quayside (there's usually a marinaro in marinas here that hands it to you,) then just walk it back & tie off. I'll try and show it in a video sometime, it's easier than it sounds!
@@svfairisle That would be another super interesting video! I actually arrived at this video wondering how people go about docking a long keeler in the med. I suppose going bow first it's all the more important you get the bow line to shore quickly, so you can back up for control and avoid crashing to the kay or drifting sideways? What's your experience with this? Also I find on our 35" longkeeler (mind you, 5t only) the back and fill works great for turning, but backing up *into* e.g. a slip or gap like in a med mooring would be veeeery hard; just drifts too much sideways when trying to correct direction, especially with any wind.
I’ve never leaned anything else than exactly this, don’t be affraid to hit the thottle when manouvering. And especialy with a ship which has a strong prop effect backwards. The fouling on the exhaust is something which is seen a lot on water cooled exhaust systems. By injecting cold water part of the gasses condensate early building up soot I guess. As always a nice video!
Yes I agree exhaust elbows do often suffer in this way, it was the turbo that really surprised me. I'm hoping the method I'm using, loading the engine at higher revs every hour or so will make both parts last longer. What do you think?
Sailing Fair Isle At what rpm should the turbo start to built up pressure. In the video you mentioned 2500 rpm which, to me, is high in relation to the maximum of 3000? rpm. There should be a spec for you engine which I don’t know but I would expect the turbo to come in at 50% of the max. rpm.
Further-on I would not ref it up every hour but run it at higher refs for an hour every day to get the engine realy hot. Keeping an eye on the temperature of course. This will not only keep the exhaust cleaner but will also keep the valves clean. And of course you could add a fuel conditioner to the tank, The latest E10 fuel is good for the environment but worse for the engine, especialy when it’s not run for longer periods, like these days when you both are in England. I’m no mechanic and I would suggest you to contact the dealer of this engine when keeping the problem. An engine at sea should be completly trustable as you will know of course
@@hansslob6749 The turbo definitely does very little / nothing at usual cruising revs 2200. If it's less than ideal conditions I often run at 2500 revs to get hull speed which does seem to get the turbo slightly wound up. I have to blast at 3500rpm to really hear it whine.
Yes using springs can work wonders and sometimes is the only option, but they can be a bugger to set ( and release) so if I can do without Im happy. (okay you caught me out, i'm just lazy!)
A long keel is certainly not a handicap! People have favourite configurations but generally most experienced sailors will tell you a full keel with a keel hung rudder is the safest and most sea kindly set up for a true blue water boat. (it was the only configuration allowed in the Golden Globe Race) A twin keel (bilge keeler) is definitely not a good blue water option. It's great for coastal work in big tidal regions where you might want to dry out, but that's about it.
Spring off. I had a long keeled Freya. Short bursts and if you can, go very slowly astern. Use your rudder astern with just a 5 or 10 degrees either way you want to turn but have engine in neutral to get best use of rudder. If you overseer the rudder becomes a break . If it is to windy some times you need to row your anchor out. I have never done that but i have seen it done.
@@svfairisle i know what you refer too, I have a boat with long keel and the main difference for me would be that with a bow thruster you can keep the movement backwards and “steer” with the bow, doing only burst forwards work but stationary and the wind can blow you laterally because no real boat movement. My five cents 🤷🏼♂️. Enjoy Turkey and your beautiful boat.
Lol, well obviously you're very flexible with a freaking bow thruster! I don't like the idea about them because I've heard about so many of them failing. The long keel constantly mess me up, but it also forces me to understand how wind, currents and waves affect the boat. I'd rather just get one of these mass production boats instead of trying to make my long keeled Viksund from 74 act like a modern boat
@@svfairisle I don’t know what I’ve misunderstood exactly. If we talk about techniques about docking a long keeled boat, a bow thruster basically removes the need to explain how to maneuver a long keeled boat.. I just don’t see the point. If the video was about «how to use a bow thruster», it would make sense. When it’s about how to maneuver a long keeled sailboat, it makes no sense. Anyways. English isn’t my first language and I do find that cultural jargon doesn’t always translate between languages. I meant no offense
@@JoyElectric567 It's too complicated an issue to get into here, but there are many misconceptions about long keeled boats and also it seems about modern boats. If you think a modern production boat might be the answer to close contact maneuvering then you'ld be very disappointed. Almost all production boat now have twin rudders out of line with the prop and these make life exceedingly difficult in harbour. The video is about the technique of Back and Fill which is why it was titled that. Ant boat with a prop directly in front of the rudder can use this technique to move the stern sideways, that's it. the bow thruster has no relevance to this. Having a bow thruster in a long keeled boat is a very useful thing in some circumstances, like the fact the rudder will not work well going astern so you can use a bow thurster to steer a bit. Modern twin ruddered boats quite often have bow and stern thrusters now as they maneuver so badly.
@@svfairisle I'll take self critism for not really getting what the term "back and fill" meant. But it was just a little over a minute that actually adressed that issue. The rest is using a bow thruster, not being good with spring lines and your issues with a turbo engine. To put the rudder to one side and turn the boat using forward and reverse is how you turn a long keeled boat. I watched it wondering what "back and fill" meant and after one minute it was bow thrusters etc etc. I understand your intention now, but it is what it is. There's no need for me to mouth about your stuff. I wish you all well and smooth sailing
![[All About] Boat Propellers and Prop Walk | Sailing Wisdom](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E1dt19C_vxE/mqdefault.jpg)
![[All About] Boat Propellers and Prop Walk | Sailing Wisdom](/img/tr.png)
Interesting. I have a full keel Southern Cross and my prop wash works very well. Too well. Good video.
Thanks again for sharing your experiences and knowledge .
Two videos back to back was a nice surprise.
Greetings from Canada 🇨🇦
Steve, good video. We have an older Island Packet with a longer keel but back and fill (standing turn as we call it) was part of the sailing lesions we attended prior to buying the boat.. We’ve amazed friends who own a fin keel boat by turning Panacea in a tight marina. I will say that I do have bow thruster envoy. I can see your point...who needs a spring line. Your videos are really great. Fair Winds.
Thanks Tom, Island Packets are great boats, good choice. The bow thruster is a game changer. My father had a 50 foot steel ketch with no thruster and a prop/rudder configuration that meant back & fill didn't work very well. We used to use spring lines all the time I enjoyed doing it as crew but the thought of getting Judy to run around with the ropes! Well for the sake of our marriage I'm very glad of the thruster!
Beautiful beautiful boat. Love your boat ! So pretty.
Ha! and you wrote that on 'Back & Fill' where all you really saw was my ugly mug! Steve
Great description of back and fill! The other issue with marine diesels is not getting them up to temperature. We primarily use them for docking and charging the batteries with only occasional long motoring usage. They have to be run under a significant load to heat up which prevents carbon build-up or even glazing the cylinder walls in extreme cases. This happened with my Yanmar 2GM20F which had only used for Wednesday night racing for 10 years before I bought it.
Yes agreed! I think using the main engine to charge batteries has probably ruined more marine engines than anything else! Luckily we've got a Genny so don't need to ever do that. Hopefully the advances in solar and battery technology will mean even that's redundant soon.
@@svfairisle Love your videos. Solar and wind generators meant we never used the engine or genny to charge. We had a 135W solar panel and the smallest Rutland. All boat lights were Led. We also never ran a freezer, just a fridge (top opening) We were in Australia though with plenty of sun and wind. I think at this stage even now, if you want a freezer you need a genny. If you can live with a fridge then solar and wind will keep on top of it. Pay attention to insulation.
Another great video, thank you.
Very informative Steve.
Nice Video, thanks for sharing.
Geat technique! I was hoping you could answer a question for a novice. Planing on getting a cool Halman/Narca 20 either or and I want to launch it off a ramp will that be difficult with a draft of just under 3 ft. I'll be moving it with a Frontier Nissan 6 cylinder. probably should go for a smaller boat but I think these English/Canadian boats are beautiful.... Thanks for the video.
i'd like to see more long keel marina moves, but without the bow thruster ;) noby explains it well, but i found your video informative, and definatly would like to see you steer in reverse :)
I will show reversing at some point, but don't expect much actual steering! Basically I start going aft and wait and see which way she's going to go! We have a very small amount of prop walk to port so its usually that way, but not always! Basically you'ld have to orientate the boat with a little back & fill blast forward and then ease her backward until she goes out of line then a quick bast forward again with the rudder hard over depending on which way the boat needs turning and so on. The easier method is reverse, stop the boat, or slow right down, when out of line and use the bowthuster to orientate the boat again before continuing going aft. Yes I know that's cheating!
@@svfairisle i only ask as a long keeler center console is on the list for our next boat... but having a fin keel stern cockpit right now i know i take for granted how easy it is to dock currently without any bow thrusters. and easy access to the pontoons.
I dont mind cheating either so i probably should just factor the cost of a bow thruster into it and be done with it. That way i could go astern where i actually want to go using the bow thruster as a rudder! (im sure you know how busy UK marinas can get!)
Its more desirable to have astern steerage in the med of course, although (presuming) once you drop the anchor that would keep the boat pretty straight while reversing the stern upto the quay.
The key to being able to manage a long keeled boat in close quarters (as well as the bow thruster) is making sure the long keeled boat has the prop close to the rudder. On some long, but not full keeled boats, that have a cut away after the keel and a skeg hung rudder, the rudder is too far away from the prop to use the prop wash effectively as a sideways thrust. These boats are REALLY hard to manoeuvre! and i've seen some with stern thrusters fitted as well as bow thrusters. I can manoeuvre Fair Isle better than a modern fin keeled boat now thatI'm usedto her. Okay I cant reverse down the fairway in a marina in a straight line, but complicated tight turns are no problem. Med mooring I normally do bows to. Most have slime lines these days and I use the kedge if not.
Very interesting always watching in Neath S Wales
As a possible future 'Tech Corner' video, I'm interested to see you putting in a reef given that none of your lines are led aft. The norm is to do it all from the cockpit so would be interesting to see how you get this done. Dean
Yes very good idea Dean, I'll do that. It probably is the norm with most sailors. I was first told not to lead lines (especially reefing lines back) by a very experienced sailor years ago & talking to the guys on last years GGR they do it this way. The reason is the extra drag introduced by leading your reefing lines around several 90 degree rollers means it's virtually impossible to grind the reef in properly while still on the wind. I do it in stages, drop a bit then grind it in without altering course, just easing the boom. It's not a racing thing, i'm not a racer, I just think it's safer to not have the main banging around and sometimes turning in certain swell conditions isn't good. I'll try & make sense of it in the video!
@@svfairisle Easing the boom with your kicker? I'm intrigued as I agree, keeping the same course is often really important. If you make a video of this I'll be very keen to see. Thanks. Dean
Thanks captain
But here's the thing, if you rely on your bow thruster too much you don't develop the skills to do without, ie if the bowthruster packs up. Also, a point on diesel engines. You are bang on correct when you say that diesels need a good blowout now and again, esp if they have a turbo fitted. But why have a turbo in the first place, it's another thing to go wrong. Turbo's spin at 200000 rpm so the oil needs to be top grade and changed regularly. Here's a tip, check the oil feed pipe to the turbo on a regular basis or just change it. Any sludge or deposits in there will restrict the oil flow. Also, let the motor tick over for a couple of minutes before shutting it down. This allows the turbo to slow down and cool off. It will still be spinning when the engine stops. Also, I recently saw a yacht with a VW engine with the common rail electronic diesel injection fitted. If the alternator fails and the battery voltage drops too much, the engine won't run. At sea, give me a simple mechanical injection engine anyday. Love the videos.
Yes I agree, turbos on a boat are a nonsense, I’ve no idea why designers think they are a good idea. I do manoeuvre without the bow thruster on occasion, for that berth it was a necessity, I simply would not have gone down into that spot if we didn’t have a working thruster
Sorry thought you made that comment in the latest video, have a look it shows back and fill in operation Ep105
Purchased a 35' long keel this year without a bow thruster, thanks for video, I did work this out eventually, but when going into Marina I always say I have a long keel and plenty of fenders! I did get a tad frustrated but would not part with her now as the comfort factor is v good, just have to understand springs. Concern about stern mooring in the Med but that's a couple of years from now, any ideas?
I shared your concerns about Med moorings. I tend to go in bow first though, more privacy that way and we can step off the bow sprit. Nothing to do with not wanting to make an arse of myself trying to reverse in! Well that's my line and I'm sticking to it!! My concerns really came from sailing the Med many years ago in Greece where there weren't any slime lines laid and you had to use a kedge anchor to keep you off. It was always really difficult to do even with a full crew so I wondered how we would cope. But it seems that most places have lines now, here they certainly do and I'm told the Eastern Med also use them now so it's just a matter of picking up the line from where it attaches to the quayside (there's usually a marinaro in marinas here that hands it to you,) then just walk it back & tie off. I'll try and show it in a video sometime, it's easier than it sounds!
@@svfairisle That would be another super interesting video! I actually arrived at this video wondering how people go about docking a long keeler in the med. I suppose going bow first it's all the more important you get the bow line to shore quickly, so you can back up for control and avoid crashing to the kay or drifting sideways? What's your experience with this? Also I find on our 35" longkeeler (mind you, 5t only) the back and fill works great for turning, but backing up *into* e.g. a slip or gap like in a med mooring would be veeeery hard; just drifts too much sideways when trying to correct direction, especially with any wind.
I’ve never leaned anything else than exactly this, don’t be affraid to hit the thottle when manouvering. And especialy with a ship which has a strong prop effect backwards.
The fouling on the exhaust is something which is seen a lot on water cooled exhaust systems. By injecting cold water part of the gasses condensate early building up soot I guess. As always a nice video!
Yes I agree exhaust elbows do often suffer in this way, it was the turbo that really surprised me. I'm hoping the method I'm using, loading the engine at higher revs every hour or so will make both parts last longer. What do you think?
Sailing Fair Isle
At what rpm should the turbo start to built up pressure. In the video you mentioned 2500 rpm which, to me, is high in relation to the maximum of 3000? rpm. There should be a spec for you engine which I don’t know but I would expect the turbo to come in at 50% of the max. rpm.
Further-on I would not ref it up every hour but run it at higher refs for an hour every day to get the engine realy hot. Keeping an eye on the temperature of course. This will not only keep the exhaust cleaner but will also keep the valves clean.
And of course you could add a fuel conditioner to the tank, The latest E10 fuel is good for the environment but worse for the engine, especialy when it’s not run for longer periods, like these days when you both are in England.
I’m no mechanic and I would suggest you to contact the dealer of this engine when keeping the problem. An engine at sea should be completly trustable as you will know of course
@@hansslob6749 The turbo definitely does very little / nothing at usual cruising revs 2200. If it's less than ideal conditions I often run at 2500 revs to get hull speed which does seem to get the turbo slightly wound up. I have to blast at 3500rpm to really hear it whine.
Nice video
What about set a spring outboard, away from pontoon, fully steer towards pontoon, sett in forward
Yes using springs can work wonders and sometimes is the only option, but they can be a bugger to set ( and release) so if I can do without Im happy. (okay you caught me out, i'm just lazy!)
Using springs isn’t very easy when you’re single handed!
So why was she built with such a long Keel handicap?
Should she have been twin Keel instead?
A long keel is certainly not a handicap! People have favourite configurations but generally most experienced sailors will tell you a full keel with a keel hung rudder is the safest and most sea kindly set up for a true blue water boat. (it was the only configuration allowed in the Golden Globe Race) A twin keel (bilge keeler) is definitely not a good blue water option. It's great for coastal work in big tidal regions where you might want to dry out, but that's about it.
Some hints without a bow thruster would be helpful.
Spring off. I had a long keeled Freya. Short bursts and if you can, go very slowly astern. Use your rudder astern with just a 5 or 10 degrees either way you want to turn but have engine in neutral to get best use of rudder. If you overseer the rudder becomes a break . If it is to windy some times you need to row your anchor out. I have never done that but i have seen it done.
Astern please.
Don't be pedantic! Just give me an answer to your potentially genius idea on the Bronze!!!
Try it without a bowthruster. 😉
Back & Fill moves the stern of the boat, so that aspect of it is exactly the same bow-thruster or not.
@@svfairisle i know what you refer too, I have a boat with long keel and the main difference for me would be that with a bow thruster you can keep the movement backwards and “steer” with the bow, doing only burst forwards work but stationary and the wind can blow you laterally because no real boat movement. My five cents 🤷🏼♂️. Enjoy Turkey and your beautiful boat.
👍🇦🇺🚜
Lol, well obviously you're very flexible with a freaking bow thruster! I don't like the idea about them because I've heard about so many of them failing. The long keel constantly mess me up, but it also forces me to understand how wind, currents and waves affect the boat. I'd rather just get one of these mass production boats instead of trying to make my long keeled Viksund from 74 act like a modern boat
Well you’ve completely miss understood what’s going on if that’s your conclusion.
@@svfairisle I don’t know what I’ve misunderstood exactly. If we talk about techniques about docking a long keeled boat, a bow thruster basically removes the need to explain how to maneuver a long keeled boat.. I just don’t see the point. If the video was about «how to use a bow thruster», it would make sense. When it’s about how to maneuver a long keeled sailboat, it makes no sense.
Anyways.
English isn’t my first language and I do find that cultural jargon doesn’t always translate between languages. I meant no offense
@@JoyElectric567 It's too complicated an issue to get into here, but there are many misconceptions about long keeled boats and also it seems about modern boats. If you think a modern production boat might be the answer to close contact maneuvering then you'ld be very disappointed. Almost all production boat now have twin rudders out of line with the prop and these make life exceedingly difficult in harbour. The video is about the technique of Back and Fill which is why it was titled that. Ant boat with a prop directly in front of the rudder can use this technique to move the stern sideways, that's it. the bow thruster has no relevance to this. Having a bow thruster in a long keeled boat is a very useful thing in some circumstances, like the fact the rudder will not work well going astern so you can use a bow thurster to steer a bit. Modern twin ruddered boats quite often have bow and stern thrusters now as they maneuver
so badly.
@@svfairisle I'll take self critism for not really getting what the term "back and fill" meant. But it was just a little over a minute that actually adressed that issue. The rest is using a bow thruster, not being good with spring lines and your issues with a turbo engine.
To put the rudder to one side and turn the boat using forward and reverse is how you turn a long keeled boat. I watched it wondering what "back and fill" meant and after one minute it was bow thrusters etc etc.
I understand your intention now, but it is what it is.
There's no need for me to mouth about your stuff. I wish you all well and smooth sailing