IMPORTANT NOTE. We are only using low concentrations of ammonia, anhydrous ammonia is pure and can be dangerous without experience.. If anyone were to replicate this, do so at your own risk, the system isn't complete yet. This is 100% R&D.
Didn't Tesla say it would take 100 years to understand the potential? And we still havent gotten AC right. Amazing. It is a pleasure to witness this. Blessing for your hard work and passion.
@@iamatree4246 The good news is, I'm using stainless steel vacuum chamber now. We actually found one in the junk pile. Also note, before the vacuum chamber leaked, It was cycling through the system.
@@iamatree4246 I don't 'clean the vacuum pump oil, I just replace it. When you remove all the air from the system, the ammonia vapor condenses with the water vapor when it's in a lower temperature environment then the boiler and you get flow.
COOL! You have been busy! Make sure you put a relief valve on the boiler! Lots of cool ideas. I love the sensor coil - mucho better! What will happen if the pump fails? That turbine pressure case shows me how much you have been screwing around! I would start to write down exactly the specs of each turbine and test rig and give each turbine test rig a name so you can compare notes later as you go through iterations. May I suggest Sylvester for this one? :) Good luck and be safe!!!
We are getting the equipment donated for analyzing the system! I'm glad because it's extremely expensive, they are starting with a really good custom made thermal imaging camera.
Got 20 acres next to small town with solar farms that is already selling power to nearby few cities. This location gets 310 days of sun AND my 20 acres is sitting directly on top of hottest point in geo thermal heat map zone. My plans are the same as yours at a larger scale to help sell power to the cities nearby.
Interesting! Geothermal is one of my biggest goals. You should consider joining my patreon, I am in close contact with all of them. patreon.com/ienergysupply
Ok, this is far more impressive than the previous videos. I've been thinking about this tech previously, and I'm thinking it's time to implement some of my ideas on the test bench.
@@iEnergySupply I did, but it doesn't show much. RPM says virtually nothing about power output, and the same goes for temperature differential. I can make a 15k degree plasma with little enough energy that it can't burn me. I want to know what the mass flow rates are to go with those temperature differentials. I know some of the original Tesla benchmarks had a small steam unit generate 250 HP equivalent. How does yours stack up? Conversely, what kind of pressure differential can you achieve if you use it as a pump?
@@iEnergySupply well in a milking dairy set up they are under vacuum. Their purpose is a collection point where milk is vacuumed through a system of piping and it falls into the receiving jar. I suppose its not a very low pressure vacuum as the milk doesn't boil maybe at your pressures it would crack
3M™ Novec™ 649 Engineered Fluid. This can be 100% safe replacement for ammonia in your system. Works fine in Organic Rankine Cycles. Boils at ambient pressure at 49 Celsius, 120 Fahrenheit (water is 212, so much lower than water). Less vacuum needed etc. Won't kill anyone if it leaks. Also, it does not freeze.. Well it is still pourable at -165 F, so no matter how cold the output on the Tesla turbine gets, wont ever ice up. ALSO: they use it as a liquid to submerge and cool high end pc boards. High dielectric liquid, won't short. This means: in your vacuum chamber you don't have to worry about ammonia corroding anything. The 3M Novec fluid could submerge your generator/dynamo without any protection/encapsulation of the coil, and not hurt it at all. No corrosion, no shorting. No special fittings needed etc. It has a global factor warming of 1. Most refrigerants are 400+ or some garbage number. 3M says that the 649 version is 100% destroyed within 2 weeks and won't harm the environment.
All that sounds just about perfect for this situation. I have some questions about 3M™ Novec™ 649 Engineered Fluid, would the viscosity be high enough? I assume it would. What would be the absolute pressure at 160-212f? Would it be possible to mix it with something to get the boiling point down to 100f?
@@iEnergySupply Interesting thing, the viscosity gets a little thicker as it gets much much colder... But I wonder if that would would well as you output vacuum pump reduces resistance.. Meaning more kinetic energy gets imparted to the turbine blades the colder the output. Also, it boils at 120 F at ambient pressure, so just a small amount of vacuum can get too 100 F boiling point. The fluid is expensive, but would ideally be in vacumm chamber and self contained with heat exchangers to the thermal battery. Also, could swap water in the thermal storage for a phase change material. I know a common one that turns to liquid at 120 F.... You could keep dumping heat at 400F like from the solar tubes, but will stay at 120F... Holds 5 times the amount of heat as same amount of water. When you stop applying heat, it will output 120F until it turns solid. It's a common sugar substitute. I'll find it.
@@iEnergySupply Erythritol could work as phase change material instead of water. Holds like 5 times the heat for size of tank. You could feed it solar at 395F, but it will stay at 120F from solid to liquid change, you can dump a lot of 🔥. Matches well to the 649 fluid, since it boils at 120, and home heating, 🚿 shower at 120F is about right.
@@iEnergySupply also, I would build a small test rig and "try out" the 649, and see how well it works. Much like your earlier vid with the cold steam rig. I don't think it's meant to be mixed, so a little good old empherical experimentation to see how it works. Again, just the vacuum chamber and small hot cold side heat exchangers to hot cold tanks etc, for your delta temp gradient.
@iEnergySupply Hi Jeremiah, 1st let me thank you for sharing your experiences which gave me much input! Regarding your sealing problem of the concrete-box it might be a solution to treat the material with potassium silicate (i don't know the exact english word but in german it is called "Wasserglas"). This substance seals the pores and when the liquid has dried, you get a very dense surface. It is very often used in the real estate branch and not expensive. Instead of steel reinforcement i would use aluminium or VA or glasfibre. Another point is the use of ammonium for lowering the boiling point in the heater liquid, which may cause you new problems with bubble-building inside the system which can lead under certain conditions (heat and pressure) to an H2O-cracking process where hydrogen will be created - what you definitly not want. I use in my photothermic solarpanels a special liquid which has a boiling point of approximately 130°C and without being corrosive (it is nearly the same as antifreeze liquid for car engines, but not so abrassive). Good luck and success for your project!
@@TheKlink you are right - Alumium isn't good therefore. If i should built such a case, i would make a mold out of Styrodur where all pipefittings with big flanges in the middle can be placed and then i'd fill the mold with acrylic resin. The only remaining removable side can be sealed with a sealing ring and screws. If you later realize that it don't work, you still have an aquarium...;-)
for now I am going to fix the box with stainless steel ribs. Basically my vacuum box was like a body without bones and with so much pressure from the atmosphere it got warped. I like the antifreeze idea for the solar circulation system.
@@iEnergySupply Here is a brief description of the solarthermic configuration i have installed: The primary circuit runs through a 10m² collector. The pipe diameter is only 8mm and it is layed out like a serpent above some heat treated copper plates (which are blue now). On top is a special corroded glas which let the light in from low angels. The back of the collector is isolated with rockwool. The 10m² feed a 1000 l tank and my record measure was above 90°C on a sunny day in summer. The collector is located in northern Germany (53rd latitude) and even in cold clear winterdays i had temperatures around 70°C. The second circuit system transports the steam to the turbine and the exhausted water to the cooling tank, from there back to the heating tank. Running on two circuits will avoid steamproduction inside the primary circuit, which is the hottest.
Great job Impressive, but it seems that the coil that is going to generate current is very small for the power of the Tesla turbine . I know that you are doing tests and as far as I can understand this system can be miniaturized and still have tremendous power 💪🏼👍👋🏼. sorry my English is a little rusty A long time ago in one of the videos of the turbine, I commented that for the turbine a sphere would be better instead of a box since the external pressure will always be greater due to the vacuum and the spheres distribute the pressure very well.
Very nice work, and very impressive indeed!. Really like your complete systems diagram. Thermal storage tank is your battery and so electrical energy on tap, all from sustainable thermal sources, neat. Hopefully your tesla turbine can hold up longterm without too much maintenance. Then you'll definitely have a super innovative highly flexible reasonably high COP & low cost offgrid power system sweet system for sure. All grand stuff! :) (y)
Why not use a TIG welded standard non magnetic autistic 1/16" sheet steel like 304 for your turbine box (a cylinder with end caps even better), and externally insulate it with either 2" to 4" thick builders foil backed heat proof polyurethane foam board or mineral wool to keep a higher vacuum state. Maybe the turbine could be also insulated with shaped polyurethane foam board cutouts to keep the maximum temperature differential between the hot and cold side too. Should give you faster warm you times and higher efficiency as well.
Thank you very much! I really want to use some kind of stainless steel for the chamber, If eddy currents were not an issue we could do that. We are going to test a new generator that doesn't require the vacuum chamber to be made of plastic. For now reinforcing the vacuum chamber with a little bit of stainless steel will do the trick.
@@iEnergySupply Thanks!, your very welcome. Austenitic stainless steels have a high amount of austenite which makes them non-magnetic. Even though grades such as 304 and 316 stainless steel have high amounts of iron in their chemical composition. Austenite means they are non-ferromagnetic so no eddy current issues. 304 is the cheapest out the two and its a similar one SpaceX uses for its starship just of interest, so its pretty durable stuff in harsh environments.
nice build. Anhydrous Ammonia? less energy to convert it to vapour at the risk of certain death. what are your numbers though? power used vs consumed? why did you switch from "cold steam" to conventional boiler/condenser?
Anhydrous ammonia it's no more dangerous then Windex at low concentrations. Common glass cleaners use about 10% ammonia. We are basically using window cleaner as our working fluid. 100% ammonia would be risky, but no more then propane. Propane is a compressed highly flammable gas, but we use it everywhere. We will still be using less then 212 f working fluid. We are currently building a full analytics system to get the efficiency numbers we need.
@@iEnergySupply please clarify that in your videos. Anhydrous ammonia is pure ammonia(no water at all). Somebody could try to copy your thing and kill themselves.
Do you think one very thick concrete sphere as vaccum chamber can withstand high vacuum? In order to reduce losses to zero, covered with liquid rubber or resin. Strong , cheap, non magnetic and simple to shape . Half hollow sphere on top of another.
You know I really like that idea but I think it would need to be reinforced with rebar, but maybe fiberglass would work, it would need some kind of reinforcement.
Jeremiah, SS is nowhere as good as aluminium alloy in this instance for reinforcing. I would recommend that you use a cross braced frame design to counter the panel deflections or consider using another non-ferrous material your the casing of the turbine. The rectangular shape of the housing is not working in your favour at all but changing it to an octagonal polygonal shape would massively improve pressure tolerances. For reinforcing the housing you don't need to do much more than use aluminium T-section or I-section beams internally bracing the panels. Think of a frame lining the inside of the housing with x braces from each corner of the panel-face snug against rectangular cube framework. Don't forget Project EARTH chatroom we created for this purpose.
Funny enough, we found a vacuum chamber in a junk pile. We will be using it as the magnet is far enough away from the stainless steel so we don't have to worry about eddy currents.
You should install a bedini circuit on generator coils, add just a capacitator rated at same voltage(if 220ac, will be 110v dc), instead of batery so it can run with no drag and produce energy
@@iEnergySupply the circuit is very simple.... i also saw persons with you already capable to help... i know them from other videos. You manage to do that and i will help on the rest
The geometry of the winding has also some specifics... but once is TESLA i guess it will only fit. I am the first driving the prototype th-cam.com/video/CsnNtzhu7B4/w-d-xo.html
Hi, really love the work you've done with Tesla's turbine. I've had a nagging question I wanted to ask in terms of blade placement in the turbines you've experimented with. Have you tried staggering the blades so that the exhaust port isn't perfectly aligned to neighboring blades, any effects you've observed when that is done?
How come you guys used plastic for the vacuum chamber?..and why a box instead of an egg..i assume the plastic has a dielectric quality you needed...or magnetic..as to not cause opposing forces of drag?..very interesting!...and awesome work as usual!
@@iEnergySupply I'm not an expert, but I think a egg shape or cylindric form would also be neat, bc of more ideal pressure distribution. What about construct something that even converts the magnetic field/ force? I'm sorry for the stupid questions, but I'm really just a noob.
Amonia heat cool or freeze ??? Plus produce enough power to power your house !!! Have any other liquids you want moved ??? Turbine design is quite a pump too !!!
To create a better way to store energy, a better way to collect solar energy, a way to convert nearly any heat source into energy, burn any fuel to make energy. Water can store so much energy in the form of heat, the turbine can use that energy stored at low temperatures to produce usable energy.
@@iEnergySupply ...no I get that but generally how...looks like heating the stuff in the tubes to create pressure, sent it through the turbine to a collecting tank to cool and recycle....almost like a AC confession loop? Why use ammonia?
@@AndrewHorezga Ammonia has a lower boiling point, and it's non toxic at low concentrations. When you mix it with water you can tune the boiling point to match the heat of your system. To get the maximum amount of efficiency at lower temperatures and pressures.
I'm no engineer but you need a way to keep the shell cool on the outside to hold the form. Build a second layer on the outside and run water lines through that one to keep it cool but not to detour from the process
If you see my latest videos I have them running. No ammonia though. This particular turbine was built by a friend and didn't match the parameters I needed. All my work will be summed up with my latest turbine, we are almost done making it.
@@futuresight218 The shaft had too much resistance on it, and the vibration was too high at higher rpm. I also needed a balancing machine which I have now to fix the issue. There was too much run-out on the shaft. the spacing between the disks were too large as well. the inlet nozzle was too small. There are many issues I had. He did end up using the turbine though for himself with high temperature steam.
I guess that this would be a very electrifying experience.... ;-) In one of his previous video's where you can see 3 motors running without being physically connected and only one them is actively driven by the turbine. That shows how far the magnetic field goes. I think that the box must be a good isolator and magnetic shield.
@@iEnergySupply Yes, but if you could cast some 1 inch thick slabs of copper, It would make a great heatsink, you could also solder the joints and solder copper pipe to the unit to recapture heat. It would be interesting to test to see if the heat is generated inside the vacuum, or drawn to it externally. I'm sure you've seen the neodim magnet being passed through a copper pipe. If the rate of fall is decreased, wouldn't that mean that the energy is being converted to torque?
The chamber was leaking, but we are fixing it with metal braces. we have a check valve so no leakage goes from the boiler to the condenser in the wrong direction.
That would be awesome! Right now we have a wood stove that can add power to the system if we want. The solar keeps it hot all the time though. It's a double walled stainless steel water heater.
How much heat energy put in do you reckon will be converted to electrical energy? In your opinion will it still be 30-35% like conventional systems or is it more?
I hope to get more then 30-35%, I believe we can get closer to 80% with a near perfect system, but will take a lot of tuning. At first 30-35% efficient would be great.
@@iEnergySupply I see. Well I'm looking forward to seeing the tests. Why are you not using the 2 stage turbine/pump and are instead using a condenser to create the vacuum? Was that not the purpose of the 2nd stage?
hey.. sorry das ich deutsch schreibe... sehr geile Anlage!!!im grunde ist das eine Kälteanlage mit überfluteten System.... respekt... meine frage welche Art von Lager nutzt du?und habt ihr das schonmal mit kältemittel probiert wie zb R134 oder R422d oder ähnliches... wär nicht so gefährlich als Amoniak... oder ging es euch darum das System wie bei einer Absorberkälteanlage zu betreiben?auf alle Fälle geile Anlage...Hut ab Jungs
...noch eine Frage... wie habt ihr den Übergang zwischen Kondensator und Verdampfer geregelt? mit einem Schwimmerventil oder Kugelsyphon? Beste Grüße aus Bayern
Nikola has a regulator that pulses the fluid into the turbine, we will be using it soon. I'm trying to use the ammonia so I can regulate the boiling point of the system. Regular refrigerant systems work on higher pressures, I want to decrease the pressures of the entire system so common fittings can be used.
Hi mate, I'm really impressed with your system. I saw in one of the videos you say that double pump (on each side) setup is more efficient, I saw you experimenting with it in a subsequent video, but in most recent videos I see your turbine has a single pump. What made you move from double back to single? Cheers
Could the whole vacuum chamber be scaled down to fit just around the turbine? I just found your work after watching a ton of Eric Dollard videos. Great stuff. I have cnc machines myself and may join patreon so that I can get more info on this stuff. Great work.
Everything is now sealed without a vacuum chamber. Would be a good time to join the patreon, everything I've been working towards for 3 years is wrapping up.
Concrete would be nice, but it may leak. I can't use full metal or the eddy currents form the magnet will rob power from the generator because our magnetic field is so large.
@@iEnergySupply Energy is in frequency Large power plant turbines run generators on highest frequencies possible, with mechanical and temperature constraints. Polyphase generators. Converting the output to the Desired voltage+frequency is a secondary concern. You don't bother with gears and ratios at the point of generation.
You still never reached the RPM where efficiency goes through the roof. It should suddenly jump in RPMs. A much smaller version jumps from 50,000 to 70,000 instantly.
Not sure what you mean. The trubines are not for sale yet, but very close. we are also only going to sell the turbine at first, then continue the R&D later with the pump on another stage.
@@iEnergySupply ...just vet them to make sure you don't get played.... Zuckerberg stole facebook, gates stole his operating system and sometimes even if a bad actor isn't partnering with you to steal your work ....they are doing it to make sure you end up on a shelf and don't threaten the dominate player in their market! Careful out there.
@@iEnergySupply I think we have a lot in common, including the desire for open source. I have an idea for a few other outfits who could join forces to form an open source off-grid energy alliance. Anyways, on the internet everyone is a dog, to be certain. I would recommend vetting me to make sure I'm as startup as I say I am, haha. Hope to work with you guys soon. Big goals, big dreams, always thinking of how to incorporate this into our models!
You know that you can get heat exchangers and condensers way cheaper than what all those fittings are worth? And your Generator needs a ferromagnetic cage/core to get better efficiency! Then also it doesn't matter what you container is maid out of. At the moment you probably get very choppy AC out of this generator, not a sinewave at all. And with just that permanent magnet in place (usually very bad permeability), the coils probably ring like a bell (Magneticly). Maby even emit radio! 🤣 Thats why you can´t get a frequency reading from them! I recomand, getting a big Hobby Motor as a generator, they are cheep, and you get them in the impendance for exacly the rpm range you expect.
Thanks for the suggestion, one thing to note is, it needs to be able to hold a little bit of pressure as well as vacuum. I'm worried with a little bit of pressure it will leak.
heat pump is one cold side, like the solar energy concentrator, and the heat output side, over heated side, low pressure air in the sealed tesla turbine centrifugal compressor, sides are out, middle is in
centrifugal air compression works like slam ignitor, volume to low, heat to high, heat over flow, leaves cold when let cool and then expand, air cool cycle
If your internal combustion engine is getting 20 percent on a good day, and 80 percent of the energy is waisted in the form of heat, and you recover the energy from the 80% loss, then what happens when you recover 50% of that 80%? That would be 60% efficient on an internal combustion engine correct?
A Tesla pump is more than 80% efficient. Whether you make the rotor spin with any mechanical device. Tesla's turbine works the opposite of the pump. Consider that the pump opposes an opposing force that is always present. To avoid this, the jets should be in the center of the turbine and not at the periphery. It is therefore necessary that the Turbine and the pump work in the same direction. The efficiency would then be over 80%. I'll let you explore this trail. Regards.
IMPORTANT NOTE.
We are only using low concentrations of ammonia, anhydrous ammonia is pure and can be dangerous without experience.. If anyone were to replicate this, do so at your own risk, the system isn't complete yet. This is 100% R&D.
Didn't Tesla say it would take 100 years to understand the potential?
And we still havent gotten AC right.
Amazing. It is a pleasure to witness this. Blessing for your hard work and passion.
@@nickelrider I wish I could find the exact quote, but I found it in the past. It's about time haha! Thanks for seeing this through :)
@@iamatree4246 The good news is, I'm using stainless steel vacuum chamber now. We actually found one in the junk pile. Also note, before the vacuum chamber leaked, It was cycling through the system.
@@iamatree4246 I don't 'clean the vacuum pump oil, I just replace it. When you remove all the air from the system, the ammonia vapor condenses with the water vapor when it's in a lower temperature environment then the boiler and you get flow.
Why not just use alcohol or water at low pressure?
Very impressive. I've been thinking along these lines for well over a decade, but you're actually accomplishing it. Bravo!
I'm so glad to help.
Yesssss! This is what I've been requesting! Now simplify it with a vehicle A/C system
Great to see that you are making a good progress towards a practical system!
Thanks! Slowly but surely solving all the issues.
@@iEnergySupply What issues are left to solve?
These are the best questions and replies. Cool place.
Thanks!
COOL! You have been busy! Make sure you put a relief valve on the boiler! Lots of cool ideas. I love the sensor coil - mucho better! What will happen if the pump fails? That turbine pressure case shows me how much you have been screwing around! I would start to write down exactly the specs of each turbine and test rig and give each turbine test rig a name so you can compare notes later as you go through iterations. May I suggest Sylvester for this one? :) Good luck and be safe!!!
Sylvester?
We are getting the equipment donated for analyzing the system! I'm glad because it's extremely expensive, they are starting with a really good custom made thermal imaging camera.
Got 20 acres next to small town with solar farms that is already selling power to nearby few cities. This location gets 310 days of sun AND my 20 acres is sitting directly on top of hottest point in geo thermal heat map zone. My plans are the same as yours at a larger scale to help sell power to the cities nearby.
Interesting! Geothermal is one of my biggest goals. You should consider joining my patreon, I am in close contact with all of them. patreon.com/ienergysupply
I like this idea so much and I'm happy to see you guys staying on it
Ok, this is far more impressive than the previous videos. I've been thinking about this tech previously, and I'm thinking it's time to implement some of my ideas on the test bench.
have you seen our new cold steam short testing recently? There is much more impressive testing done in them.
@@iEnergySupply I did, but it doesn't show much. RPM says virtually nothing about power output, and the same goes for temperature differential. I can make a 15k degree plasma with little enough energy that it can't burn me. I want to know what the mass flow rates are to go with those temperature differentials. I know some of the original Tesla benchmarks had a small steam unit generate 250 HP equivalent. How does yours stack up? Conversely, what kind of pressure differential can you achieve if you use it as a pump?
Looking very promising. Also love the schematics. Good job so far! :)
glad you liked the schematics, I spent more time on them then usual.
@@iEnergySupply I noticed 😁☺
Hey how about an old dairy milk receiver as a vacuum chamber? They are glass and should be pretty well sealed aswell.
I like the shape for a vacuum chamber, but would the glass be thick enough?
@@iEnergySupply well in a milking dairy set up they are under vacuum. Their purpose is a collection point where milk is vacuumed through a system of piping and it falls into the receiving jar. I suppose its not a very low pressure vacuum as the milk doesn't boil maybe at your pressures it would crack
I think you said you run at an inch or something the milking machine is only at 13 inches by going off Google. So probably the jar isn't strong enough
3M™ Novec™ 649 Engineered Fluid. This can be 100% safe replacement for ammonia in your system. Works fine in Organic Rankine Cycles. Boils at ambient pressure at 49 Celsius, 120 Fahrenheit (water is 212, so much lower than water). Less vacuum needed etc. Won't kill anyone if it leaks. Also, it does not freeze.. Well it is still pourable at -165 F, so no matter how cold the output on the Tesla turbine gets, wont ever ice up. ALSO: they use it as a liquid to submerge and cool high end pc boards. High dielectric liquid, won't short. This means: in your vacuum chamber you don't have to worry about ammonia corroding anything. The 3M Novec fluid could submerge your generator/dynamo without any protection/encapsulation of the coil, and not hurt it at all. No corrosion, no shorting. No special fittings needed etc. It has a global factor warming of 1. Most refrigerants are 400+ or some garbage number. 3M says that the 649 version is 100% destroyed within 2 weeks and won't harm the environment.
All that sounds just about perfect for this situation. I have some questions about 3M™ Novec™ 649 Engineered Fluid, would the viscosity be high enough? I assume it would. What would be the absolute pressure at 160-212f? Would it be possible to mix it with something to get the boiling point down to 100f?
@@iEnergySupply Interesting thing, the viscosity gets a little thicker as it gets much much colder... But I wonder if that would would well as you output vacuum pump reduces resistance.. Meaning more kinetic energy gets imparted to the turbine blades the colder the output. Also, it boils at 120 F at ambient pressure, so just a small amount of vacuum can get too 100 F boiling point. The fluid is expensive, but would ideally be in vacumm chamber and self contained with heat exchangers to the thermal battery. Also, could swap water in the thermal storage for a phase change material. I know a common one that turns to liquid at 120 F.... You could keep dumping heat at 400F like from the solar tubes, but will stay at 120F... Holds 5 times the amount of heat as same amount of water. When you stop applying heat, it will output 120F until it turns solid. It's a common sugar substitute. I'll find it.
@@iEnergySupply Erythritol could work as phase change material instead of water. Holds like 5 times the heat for size of tank. You could feed it solar at 395F, but it will stay at 120F from solid to liquid change, you can dump a lot of 🔥. Matches well to the 649 fluid, since it boils at 120, and home heating, 🚿 shower at 120F is about right.
@@iEnergySupply also, I would build a small test rig and "try out" the 649, and see how well it works. Much like your earlier vid with the cold steam rig. I don't think it's meant to be mixed, so a little good old empherical experimentation to see how it works. Again, just the vacuum chamber and small hot cold side heat exchangers to hot cold tanks etc, for your delta temp gradient.
@iEnergySupply Hi Jeremiah, 1st let me thank you for sharing your experiences which gave me much input!
Regarding your sealing problem of the concrete-box it might be a solution to treat the material with potassium silicate (i don't know the exact english word but in german it is called "Wasserglas"). This substance seals the pores and when the liquid has dried, you get a very dense surface. It is very often used in the real estate branch and not expensive. Instead of steel reinforcement i would use aluminium or VA or glasfibre.
Another point is the use of ammonium for lowering the boiling point in the heater liquid, which may cause you new problems with bubble-building inside the system which can lead under certain conditions (heat and pressure) to an H2O-cracking process where hydrogen will be created - what you definitly not want. I use in my photothermic solarpanels a special liquid which has a boiling point of approximately 130°C and without being corrosive (it is nearly the same as antifreeze liquid for car engines, but not so abrassive).
Good luck and success for your project!
aluminium reacts with the concrete. good shout on the water glass though.
@@TheKlink you are right - Alumium isn't good therefore.
If i should built such a case, i would make a mold out of Styrodur where all pipefittings with big flanges in the middle can be placed and then i'd fill the mold with acrylic resin. The only remaining removable side can be sealed with a sealing ring and screws. If you later realize that it don't work, you still have an aquarium...;-)
for now I am going to fix the box with stainless steel ribs. Basically my vacuum box was like a body without bones and with so much pressure from the atmosphere it got warped. I like the antifreeze idea for the solar circulation system.
@@iEnergySupply Here is a brief description of the solarthermic configuration i have installed: The primary circuit runs through a 10m² collector. The pipe diameter is only 8mm and it is layed out like a serpent above some heat treated copper plates (which are blue now). On top is a special corroded glas which let the light in from low angels. The back of the collector is isolated with rockwool. The 10m² feed a 1000 l tank and my record measure was above 90°C on a sunny day in summer. The collector is located in northern Germany (53rd latitude) and even in cold clear winterdays i had temperatures around 70°C.
The second circuit system transports the steam to the turbine and the exhausted water to the cooling tank, from there back to the heating tank.
Running on two circuits will avoid steamproduction inside the primary circuit, which is the hottest.
Great job
Impressive,
but it seems that the coil that is going to generate current is very small for the power of the Tesla turbine .
I know that you are doing tests and as far as I can understand this system can be miniaturized and still have tremendous power 💪🏼👍👋🏼.
sorry my English is a little rusty
A long time ago in one of the videos of the turbine, I commented that for the turbine a sphere would be better instead of a box since the external pressure will always be greater due to the vacuum and the spheres distribute the pressure very well.
this
Very hard to make a sphere, maybe a tube would be easier
Very nice work, and very impressive indeed!. Really like your complete systems diagram. Thermal storage tank is your battery and so electrical energy on tap, all from sustainable thermal sources, neat. Hopefully your tesla turbine can hold up longterm without too much maintenance. Then you'll definitely have a super innovative highly flexible reasonably high COP & low cost offgrid power system sweet system for sure. All grand stuff! :) (y)
Why not use a TIG welded standard non magnetic autistic 1/16" sheet steel like 304 for your turbine box (a cylinder with end caps even better), and externally insulate it with either 2" to 4" thick builders foil backed heat proof polyurethane foam board or mineral wool to keep a higher vacuum state. Maybe the turbine could be also insulated with shaped polyurethane foam board cutouts to keep the maximum temperature differential between the hot and cold side too. Should give you faster warm you times and higher efficiency as well.
Thank you very much! I really want to use some kind of stainless steel for the chamber, If eddy currents were not an issue we could do that. We are going to test a new generator that doesn't require the vacuum chamber to be made of plastic. For now reinforcing the vacuum chamber with a little bit of stainless steel will do the trick.
@@iEnergySupply Thanks!, your very welcome. Austenitic stainless steels have a high amount of austenite which makes them non-magnetic. Even though grades such as 304 and 316 stainless steel have high amounts of iron in their chemical composition. Austenite means they are non-ferromagnetic so no eddy current issues. 304 is the cheapest out the two and its a similar one SpaceX uses for its starship just of interest, so its pretty durable stuff in harsh environments.
nice build. Anhydrous Ammonia? less energy to convert it to vapour at the risk of certain death. what are your numbers though? power used vs consumed? why did you switch from "cold steam" to conventional boiler/condenser?
Anhydrous ammonia it's no more dangerous then Windex at low concentrations. Common glass cleaners use about 10% ammonia. We are basically using window cleaner as our working fluid. 100% ammonia would be risky, but no more then propane. Propane is a compressed highly flammable gas, but we use it everywhere. We will still be using less then 212 f working fluid. We are currently building a full analytics system to get the efficiency numbers we need.
@@iEnergySupply please clarify that in your videos. Anhydrous ammonia is pure ammonia(no water at all). Somebody could try to copy your thing and kill themselves.
@@adamsoltesz5237 Yeah I must have miss spoke. Thanks for pointing that out.
@@adamsoltesz5237 this is good advice guys, although its hard to get anhydrous ammonia
What is the net gain? What is the COP? Why isn't the rotor offset like in Tesla's design?
Do you think one very thick concrete sphere as vaccum chamber can withstand high vacuum? In order to reduce losses to zero, covered with liquid rubber or resin. Strong , cheap, non magnetic and simple to shape . Half hollow sphere on top of another.
You know I really like that idea but I think it would need to be reinforced with rebar, but maybe fiberglass would work, it would need some kind of reinforcement.
@@iEnergySupply Yes fibre glass or carbon fibre would be perfect.
Reinforce it with basalt bar or mesh. Non magnetic very strong and will not rust.
Jeremiah, SS is nowhere as good as aluminium alloy in this instance for reinforcing. I would recommend that you use a cross braced frame design to counter the panel deflections or consider using another non-ferrous material your the casing of the turbine. The rectangular shape of the housing is not working in your favour at all but changing it to an octagonal polygonal shape would massively improve pressure tolerances. For reinforcing the housing you don't need to do much more than use aluminium T-section or I-section beams internally bracing the panels. Think of a frame lining the inside of the housing with x braces from each corner of the panel-face snug against rectangular cube framework. Don't forget Project EARTH chatroom we created for this purpose.
Funny enough, we found a vacuum chamber in a junk pile. We will be using it as the magnet is far enough away from the stainless steel so we don't have to worry about eddy currents.
This is very cool, I need to watch more of your videos
Please do!
This is simply incredible
Thank you! You should see our latest videos.
You should install a bedini circuit on generator coils, add just a capacitator rated at same voltage(if 220ac, will be 110v dc),
instead of batery so it can run with no drag and produce energy
If I was more experienced with that type of generator I would give it a try. If someone were to build it I would test it on the turbine.
@@iEnergySupply the circuit is very simple.... i also saw persons with you already capable to help... i know them from other videos. You manage to do that and i will help on the rest
The geometry of the winding has also some specifics... but once is TESLA i guess it will only fit. I am the first driving the prototype th-cam.com/video/CsnNtzhu7B4/w-d-xo.html
Hi, really love the work you've done with Tesla's turbine. I've had a nagging question I wanted to ask in terms of blade placement in the turbines you've experimented with. Have you tried staggering the blades so that the exhaust port isn't perfectly aligned to neighboring blades, any effects you've observed when that is done?
I haven't tried that yet, and it's worth the experiment, the only thing that makes me question it's plausibility is turbulence.
How come you guys used plastic for the vacuum chamber?..and why a box instead of an egg..i assume the plastic has a dielectric quality you needed...or magnetic..as to not cause opposing forces of drag?..very interesting!...and awesome work as usual!
yeah didn't want eddy currents heating up the casing. The plastic we used is good for anhydrous ammonia. The shape made it easy to make.
@@iEnergySupply I'm not an expert, but I think a egg shape or cylindric form would also be neat, bc of more ideal pressure distribution. What about construct something that even converts the magnetic field/ force? I'm sorry for the stupid questions, but I'm really just a noob.
If the condenser was above the heat tank, would gravity not be suffice to get the water back into the tank?
Amonia heat cool or freeze ???
Plus produce enough power to power your house !!!
Have any other liquids you want moved ???
Turbine design is quite a pump too !!!
What is the overall idea here? To generate a loop that powers the turbine?
To create a better way to store energy, a better way to collect solar energy, a way to convert nearly any heat source into energy, burn any fuel to make energy. Water can store so much energy in the form of heat, the turbine can use that energy stored at low temperatures to produce usable energy.
@@iEnergySupply ...no I get that but generally how...looks like heating the stuff in the tubes to create pressure, sent it through the turbine to a collecting tank to cool and recycle....almost like a AC confession loop? Why use ammonia?
@@AndrewHorezga Ammonia has a lower boiling point, and it's non toxic at low concentrations. When you mix it with water you can tune the boiling point to match the heat of your system. To get the maximum amount of efficiency at lower temperatures and pressures.
Have you thought about cold fusion maybe?
I'm no engineer but you need a way to keep the shell cool on the outside to hold the form. Build a second layer on the outside and run water lines through that one to keep it cool but not to detour from the process
have you seen our recent successful run using only water?
Waaw you've done it man 🤩 where can I see this baby running?
If you see my latest videos I have them running. No ammonia though. This particular turbine was built by a friend and didn't match the parameters I needed. All my work will be summed up with my latest turbine, we are almost done making it.
@@iEnergySupply so you say this particular system is not functional or is it that ots not giving the power you wanted from it ?
@@futuresight218 The shaft had too much resistance on it, and the vibration was too high at higher rpm. I also needed a balancing machine which I have now to fix the issue. There was too much run-out on the shaft. the spacing between the disks were too large as well. the inlet nozzle was too small. There are many issues I had. He did end up using the turbine though for himself with high temperature steam.
How is the vacuum maintained in this system or is the decay low enough that it only has to be serviced periodically?
Teflon tape sucks. Once you try sealing threads (like Loctite 55), you probably won't bother with teflon tape anymore :)
Can't wait to see more!
Thanks. Second time I've heard that, ill do it next time for sure.
I wonder if a copper vacuum chamber would enhance the generator?
I guess that this would be a very electrifying experience.... ;-)
In one of his previous video's where you can see 3 motors running without being physically connected and only one them is actively driven by the turbine. That shows how far the magnetic field goes. I think that the box must be a good isolator and magnetic shield.
Correct.
It would heat up, that's for sure.
@@iEnergySupply Yes, but if you could cast some 1 inch thick slabs of copper, It would make a great heatsink, you could also solder the joints and solder copper pipe to the unit to recapture heat. It would be interesting to test to see if the heat is generated inside the vacuum, or drawn to it externally.
I'm sure you've seen the neodim magnet being passed through a copper pipe. If the rate of fall is decreased, wouldn't that mean that the energy is being converted to torque?
Looking really good! Were you having leak issues in the pump? Or was it always to go back into a chamber?
The chamber was leaking, but we are fixing it with metal braces. we have a check valve so no leakage goes from the boiler to the condenser in the wrong direction.
Looking good, I hope its getting a tidy rocket stove to power it.
That would be awesome! Right now we have a wood stove that can add power to the system if we want. The solar keeps it hot all the time though. It's a double walled stainless steel water heater.
How much heat energy put in do you reckon will be converted to electrical energy? In your opinion will it still be 30-35% like conventional systems or is it more?
I hope to get more then 30-35%, I believe we can get closer to 80% with a near perfect system, but will take a lot of tuning. At first 30-35% efficient would be great.
@@iEnergySupply I see. Well I'm looking forward to seeing the tests. Why are you not using the 2 stage turbine/pump and are instead using a condenser to create the vacuum? Was that not the purpose of the 2nd stage?
@@iamatree4246 There are far better ways to cool things than use ice, like use physics.
What about some internal supports inside the vacuum chamber ?
now the vacuum chamber is the turbine.
hey.. sorry das ich deutsch schreibe... sehr geile Anlage!!!im grunde ist das eine Kälteanlage mit überfluteten System.... respekt... meine frage welche Art von Lager nutzt du?und habt ihr das schonmal mit kältemittel probiert wie zb R134 oder R422d oder ähnliches... wär nicht so gefährlich als Amoniak... oder ging es euch darum das System wie bei einer Absorberkälteanlage zu betreiben?auf alle Fälle geile Anlage...Hut ab Jungs
...noch eine Frage... wie habt ihr den Übergang zwischen Kondensator und Verdampfer geregelt? mit einem Schwimmerventil oder Kugelsyphon? Beste Grüße aus Bayern
Nikola has a regulator that pulses the fluid into the turbine, we will be using it soon. I'm trying to use the ammonia so I can regulate the boiling point of the system. Regular refrigerant systems work on higher pressures, I want to decrease the pressures of the entire system so common fittings can be used.
absorption cooling system is a goal of ours.
I'm just learning about this. Very cool! Why did you use ammonia in this system rather than pure water vapor like your other videos?
Thanks! So far pure water seems to work the best.
@@iEnergySupply
Why not alcohol?
Alcohol evaporates at lower temperature than water...
@@MrDeicide1 I want to
Hi mate, I'm really impressed with your system. I saw in one of the videos you say that double pump (on each side) setup is more efficient, I saw you experimenting with it in a subsequent video, but in most recent videos I see your turbine has a single pump. What made you move from double back to single? Cheers
Awe man we did all that work and we were so close to testing.
yeah, then I had to go to the dentist, and build a smaller more powerful turbine.
@@iEnergySupply yes a beautiful carbon fiber turbine
Thanks for shareing
My pleasure
Nice science experiment. How much money and time did you sink into the rabbit hole?
see our latest video to for the system in action.
Could the whole vacuum chamber be scaled down to fit just around the turbine? I just found your work after watching a ton of Eric Dollard videos. Great stuff. I have cnc machines myself and may join patreon so that I can get more info on this stuff. Great work.
Everything is now sealed without a vacuum chamber. Would be a good time to join the patreon, everything I've been working towards for 3 years is wrapping up.
Can't use thermal expansion to pump?
that's in the plans.
Cant like this enough .
Thanks!
10:45 just make a concrete box....or weld up a stainless or aluminum, or other non conductive metal box.
Concrete would be nice, but it may leak. I can't use full metal or the eddy currents form the magnet will rob power from the generator because our magnetic field is so large.
@@iEnergySupply got it.
@@iEnergySupply Concrete can be easily sealed with any rubberized sealer.
what is ta purpose of the amonia here,?
it was to run the turbine at lower temperatures, but we since found water works just fine.
@@iEnergySupply amonia and steam pressure mixed together to run the turbine?,, i am right?
whats water battery?
Container of water that stores heat energy.
Why do the Hertz even matter? Why do you need ammonia? Can you just use water?
Just get it to a stupidly high frequency and then use step down transformers to get more amperage at the cost of voltage.
your the second person to suggest this, I wonder what would be the best transformer to use.
@@iEnergySupply
Energy is in frequency
Large power plant turbines run generators on highest frequencies possible, with mechanical and temperature constraints. Polyphase generators.
Converting the output to the Desired voltage+frequency is a secondary concern. You don't bother with gears and ratios at the point of generation.
Your chamber should be a cylinder, but either way wrap it in carbon fiber, or glass fiber
Nice!
Thank you! Cheers!
Thats fucking awesome.
Thanks!
You still never reached the RPM where efficiency goes through the roof. It should suddenly jump in RPMs. A much smaller version jumps from 50,000 to 70,000 instantly.
Can you tag me In the follow up video?
Not sure what you mean. The trubines are not for sale yet, but very close. we are also only going to sell the turbine at first, then continue the R&D later with the pump on another stage.
amazing
You guys NEED TO PARTNER WITH US before it's too late and you get too big to talk to us! Congrats!
as long as we can stay open source, that's the goal here.
@@iEnergySupply ...just vet them to make sure you don't get played.... Zuckerberg stole facebook, gates stole his operating system and sometimes even if a bad actor isn't partnering with you to steal your work ....they are doing it to make sure you end up on a shelf and don't threaten the dominate player in their market! Careful out there.
@@AndrewHorezga I totally agree. I will go as long as I can. Thanks for the advice.
@@iEnergySupply I think we have a lot in common, including the desire for open source. I have an idea for a few other outfits who could join forces to form an open source off-grid energy alliance. Anyways, on the internet everyone is a dog, to be certain. I would recommend vetting me to make sure I'm as startup as I say I am, haha. Hope to work with you guys soon. Big goals, big dreams, always thinking of how to incorporate this into our models!
You know that you can get heat exchangers and condensers way cheaper than what all those fittings are worth?
And your Generator needs a ferromagnetic cage/core to get better efficiency!
Then also it doesn't matter what you container is maid out of.
At the moment you probably get very choppy AC out of this generator, not a sinewave at all.
And with just that permanent magnet in place (usually very bad permeability), the coils probably ring like a bell (Magneticly). Maby even emit radio! 🤣
Thats why you can´t get a frequency reading from them!
I recomand, getting a big Hobby Motor as a generator, they are cheep, and you get them in the impendance for exacly the rpm range you expect.
it's a pure sign wave, see this video. th-cam.com/video/MkGAKqG2qvU/w-d-xo.html We show it on an oscilloscope.
I repeat again, get yourself a glass bell. Then you just need a ring fixed to any surface you want (the pipes can come from that surface).
When you want to do maintaince you can lift the whole bell out of the way
Thanks for the suggestion, one thing to note is, it needs to be able to hold a little bit of pressure as well as vacuum. I'm worried with a little bit of pressure it will leak.
@@iEnergySupply you can have double ring then. Little more work to remove the bell for maintaince..
Stainless steel does not corrode in ammonia.
I'd have went with a heavy plate for that box just in case the turbine came unglued !!!
just compress air, as a heat pump, nothing else needed, a single closed tesla turbine rotor without inlets and outlets, just "in heat" and "out heat"
heat pump is one cold side, like the solar energy concentrator, and the heat output side, over heated side, low pressure air in the sealed tesla turbine centrifugal compressor, sides are out, middle is in
centrifugal air compression works like slam ignitor, volume to low, heat to high, heat over flow, leaves cold when let cool and then expand, air cool cycle
axle separate rotary device from the generator, if you planned to do that, different houses
Ill be demonstrating this system soon, using only water and a turbine capable of 150000 rpm.
😎👍
New s.e.g. test th-cam.com/video/q-3TjVqx-TM/w-d-xo.html
Showing the same as your device, that's the temp drop.
The efficiency of a Tesla turbine never past 50 %. If you don't know why.... Call me.
If your internal combustion engine is getting 20 percent on a good day, and 80 percent of the energy is waisted in the form of heat, and you recover the energy from the 80% loss, then what happens when you recover 50% of that 80%? That would be 60% efficient on an internal combustion engine correct?
A Tesla pump is more than 80% efficient. Whether you make the rotor spin with any mechanical device.
Tesla's turbine works the opposite of the pump. Consider that the pump opposes an opposing force that is always present. To avoid this, the jets should be in the center of the turbine and not at the periphery. It is therefore necessary that the Turbine and the pump work in the same direction. The efficiency would then be over 80%. I'll let you explore this trail.
Regards.
@@iEnergySupply
ICEs have been at 65% for a long time