EEVblog 1503 - Rigol HDO4000 12bit Oscilloscope TEARDOWN
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2022
- Teardown of the new Rigol HDO4000 12bit ultra low noise oscilloscope
PSU teardown: • Rigol HDO4000 PSU Tear...
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#ElectronicsCreators #Rigol #Teardown - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Bird is a puffin. Black and white with a coloured beak, and not common in Australia outside of a zoo.
And fast flying so a fast colour device.
50R termination going to be well cooked if you put more than 2V into it, going to say you will have a call for inputs to have a warning on that mode, or you will be cooking input resistors within a week if you have anything over naff all input power.
Yes, I expect many fried 50ohm inputs. Maybe they couldn't get the bandwidth (and response shape) they wanted with the bigger part.
Puffin is common on the east coast of Canada especially Gaspe Quebec.
@@EEVblog I can see the one accessory being sold will be a 50R inline termination that can handle 5W, probably with 6dB attenuation or more, so that you can actually use the 50R input. Otherwise a warning when selecting 50R that your input range is limited to 1V only.
Looks like the team was the one that did the spectrum analysers.
A puffin might be better than a weird egg-laying poisonous mammal.
@@EEVblog Reported yet another impersonator......
NGL something about Dave's accent plus all the enthusiasm always manages to brighten up a day regardless of whatever hes talking about lmao
No whackers
His SNR is like -42 dB
Winner Winner, Chicken Dinner!!
True plus the Aussie sayings. Give it a Squizz...LOL.
The RK3399's big value proposition is probably that x4 PCI-Express port, which makes for a very convenient way to talk to logic on FPGAs. They might even map the waveform store RAM directly into the SoC's address space.
Thanks for letting us know, the interface between the SoC and FPGA was one of the things I was wondering about, PCIe is a really nice fit for this application indeed!
It's at the heart of a few single board computers too.
Thanks for continuing to make outstanding content! Love the tear downs!
Thanks, much appreciated.
You are a true legend Dave only you do there great teardowns! Way to go Mcgyver
Your excitement for technology makes this even more fun to watch :)
Puffin are a kids book publisher in the UK (part of Penguin books) so that bird outline is very familiar here in the old dart.
Kudos to Rigol. I can't wait to see the HDO1000 series.
The video we've all been waiting for!
Dave, you make my day.
The Sharp Stereo radio-cassette player - I had this model (or very look-like) back in 1984, in Deva, Romania.
An yes, as always, a great educational video.
Live Long and Prosper.
Cheers!
I never even saw it till you pointed it out. Way cool boombox. Dave should do a tear down on it soon.
@@Seiskid
Uh... hopefully not doing tear-down on that Sharp Stereo 😁
Those "history" pieces should remain as they are.
Looked at using a 4053 for a sample+hold circuit once. The worst-case ratio between on-current and off-current wasn’t extreme enough. Ended up making a large spreadsheet, and settled on using a DG444.
That bird is an Atlantic Puffin, aka Sea Parrot, and their colorful beaks are beautiful......great teardown.
Super! Hope you will also get new R&S MXO 4. James (baldengineer) was quite speedy on teardown.
That mouse insisting on drawing polygons was quite funny. Nice teardown!
Very clean construction; interesting choice to put the R&D into the front end with a bespoke chip and ADC, and shell out for the Artix7. Crazy amount of heat and noise, but I think a lot of people will find the trade-off acceptable!
Would be super cool to see somebody unify the front end & ADC; you'd end up with a very modular front end that you could feed into an FPGA and go from there. I can imagine a lot of possibilities for that combo.
Marvellous teardown ! Not a patch on my Scopex 14-d 15Mhz scope but... ( I'm in tears, I want a proper scope !!! )
A Scopex is a proper scope, Granted not a DSO but still i have 3 CRO's and i still use them
MGTAVCC is for the multi-gigibit transceivers in Artix 7.
an interesting note with the closer look around 24:25.
the micron memory there (and likely for the SoC as well) is 4Gb/512MB x16 width DDR3L 1866MT/s memory, so there is 2GB total RAM there, which makes sense with the ongoings under the hood. the 3399 ARM SoC has a PCIe 3.0x4 link which also makes it easier for coms to the FPGA with low latency, as a few people in the comments here have mentioned. this is fitting given it's 2Gs/s would be too much for serial unlike lower sample rate and bandwidth scopes.
I think the large spanned heatsink is to cool the chips and keep all of the chips running at the same temperature, running a virtual differential low noise system..with the wafer fabrication of the ASICS, maybe
2 diff pairs for the quadrature IQ outputs, 1 pair for each.
It would be nice to have some intake air filters. this series of Rigol scope looks like a keeper
I wonder if the heatsinking could be more about minimising temperature for stability than having to dissipate a lot of heat
Maybe even have all inputs at the same temp, to reduce differences between the inputs on the same signal.
I also like the way they integrated heatsinking, temperature equalization and shielding into a single die-cast part.
@@aDaWaN Makes sense, after all a single spin cast mould that integrates it all is going to be cheaper in the assembly line, and you can get great dimensional stability in that single part as well so minimal machining work to get good results. You need a heat sink, so makes sense to have a single part then for the entire range, and it definitely cuts the cost down in assembly. Spin cast, run through a single CNC mill to level the critical paths, and drill the holes and tap them, and be done. One fixturing clamp only needed, and perhaps 3 minutes of machining time total. 400 per machine per day is probably faster than the rest of the production line.
If you have chance, please do review of R&S MXO 4 12bit oscope
Rockchip 3399 is commonly used for android boards. I think Linux will run on a wide range due to the large community but I always see the rockchip 3399 and the older 3288 on android devices- it’s probably because there is well validated software to run on it. The two buttons populated are recover and reset and I always see them populated regardless of if it’s intended to be worked on. Somehow it must be required. I’m working on a 3288 now trying to hack an old advertising display with touch screen on it. It’s supposed be to be “pretty powerful” for android because it’s also found commonly in Chromebooks
It's a Puffin. A Puffin is a seabird seen around the forth river estuary islands in Scotland.
foresee is sort of a sibling of lexar, both owned by longsys
I don't understand a thing I just love watching your oscilloscope teardowns... How do I learn Dave?
well....
1. You learn by watching and paying attention
(Your brain has a funny way of putting things together even if you don't immediately understand it)
2. You can download his videos
3. if you need to ask a shit load of questions i'm happy to jump on zoom with you or whatever to explain a few things to you
that's how you learn
by being curious
pulling shit apart
and asking questions
@@martinkuliza that's very very kind loool thank you. I'm not beginner tho, currently in BS ECE, been doing electronics hobby since 4 yrs old. I know the context of what dave is saying. I'm just exaggerating because I really do feel I'm still absolutely stupid compared to people like you who are highly knowledgeable and experienced with this field. I hope I could learn more forever. Love electronics.
@@omniyambot9876
LOL, ok then
1. RE "been doing electronics hobby since 4 yrs old."
How cool is that... Me too, from 4 years old haha
2. Well then if your'e not a beginner you'll pick it up,
My advise is, Just keep watching the videos over and over , if you watch it enough and don't focus too hard, it'll sink it and your brain will make sense of it
Ultimately if you love electronics you don't even need to worry because it'll happen naturally , Just watch the videos
be cool
@@martinkuliza yeah you're absolutely right. Just enjoying these videos, I think I naturally pick up the ideas as time goes by..
@@omniyambot9876 Indeed, I remember when i was young
pulled apart a Stereo and looking inside at the mainboard and marvelling at the wonders of the PCB and then looking at the SMD's and wondering
What are they ? Will i ever understand those things and what they do ?
and then thinking, I can never understand this , i mean you need to be a genius to figure this shit out
and you know what mate, at the age of 49 i can tell you this
DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT
Just keep being curious, Keep learning and Keep pulling shit apart, and sooner or later your brain will give you the answer
Truth is , at one point or another we are all geniuses
I get called a genius all the time, I'm not a genius , I just pay attention to shit
and just as you are now marvelling at me and dave and thinking that our knowledge surpasses your own
ONE DAY YOU WILL LEARN THIS SHIT AND SOMEONE WILL MARVEL AT YOU AS BEING A GENIUS AND HOW YOUR KNOWLEDGE SURPASSES THEIR OWN
and they will wonder "How can i ever be as smart as Omni Yambot"
See mate... it's all relative
We are not geniuses, it's just that people that have less knowledge than us see us and interpret THE DIFFERENCE IN KNOWLEDGE as "Genius"
LOL
The dictionary defines it as
EXCEPTIONAL INTELLECTUAL OR CREATIVE POWER
but what we have here is not EXCEPTIONAL KNOWLEDGE it's just
DIFFERENCE IN LEVEL OF KNOWLEDGE based on age and experience
therefore..... YOU TOO WILL ONE DAY BE A GENIUS
or... at least "Seem to be" LOL
don't worry about it mate, I'll happen, just do what you're doing and you'll get it
these warranty void stickers ... are they still legal? I believe they have been 'outlawed' , at least here in Europe, if I'm not mistaken.
Please leave a review about "Rigol DP900" series
excited for hdo1000 with12bit at $999. would be very nice to check for whether it actually has that 50 ohm input not mention in datasheets but stated in ui and the front panel.
No 50ohm input or active probe inputs.
@@EEVblog Oddly enough hdo1000 user manual 5.4 says: When the input impedance is set to "50 Ω", the channel coupling is set to DC coupling by
force.
Am confused.
@@bakagaijin7452 Probably used with external 50R terminator, and software sets the input to DC coupled when you select the 50R termination for the display unit.
0:38 On top, that is a nice Sharp boombox! Modelnumber?
I wander what's that component sitting between the main board cutout and the RJ-45 jack. Seems pretty isolated.
The „when I was a boy“ sentence got me thinking. Why not make a comparison of scope front ends of today, 10 years ago, 20 years ago and so on
"software upgradeable" sounds like a really polite way of saying software gimped.
With Android OS it should be fairly easy to connect this scope to the internet. Android platform includes the HttpsURLConnection client, turning the scope into a web browser and a web server. More and more test equipment are being designed for World Wide Web connectivity
That leaves us with 1 question: Why would you want to connect your scope to the internet?
@@JCGver 1 Remote users on the internet can see exactly what you are seeing during a test by logging into the scope with secure username and a password 2 Email test results such as screenshots or JPEG video of the test to others on the web.3 Download new 'app' to change scope functions. 4 Save test results to the CLOUD for future analysis and viewing. you can store unlimited amount of data to the cloud 5 Using an embedded web server, a remote operator can run the scope from anywhere on the planet, 6 Factory diagnostics in case of failure. 7 Factory calibration and firmware upgrade 8 You can download third-party apps for various analysis, you don't have to depend on Rigol for their limited analytical library... and many more applications. I hope that gives you an idea of why test equipment are getting connected to the World Wide Web
@@nicmate2543 - Wake up! it's no dream. It's reality. Most modern electronic equipment are internet connected.
Why are there two differential pairs per front end channel?
There's even a third, nondescript, but populated button above the Rockchip. 👀
I would be glad if you could digest a DSP car amplifier circuitry
I seriously question if the 'Warranty void if removed' sticker is legal in Australia. I don't think it is in the US.
If it is, you can buy the exact stickers on Aliexpress.
IT IS Legal in Australia
they can legally refuse your warranty if the sticker is violated
and i'll tell you how i know this
Many moons ago when i bought my DS2000A Series Rigol scope
as we all did, i did my upgrade to 300MHz
Anyway, i went into Emona Instruments at one point and they figured they'd come out with the question and face me with it
well... Little did they realize , i handle pressure extremely well and i don't give 2 fucks about what they think
In a nutshell, they asked
"so... you did the upgrade illegally did you ?"
i said to them, "No, I didn't do anything illegal, but i did do the upgrade"
The scope is mine i can do what i want with it
they asked "so you removed the warranty sticker did you "
I said "well.... You can see the warranty sticker is intact and un damaged and not violated"
they went on about a speech regarding "well, we know you took it off"
and i said "well, regardless of what you think you know the sticker acts as evidence of tampering and as you can see the sticker has not been violated and is still intact"
THEY HONOURED THE WARRANTY
so yes, it's legal
But... Had i said directly "Yes, i removed the sticker" this would have been enough to void the warranty instead, i said "well. You can see it's still intact"
In Australia there is a big difference there , legally speaking.
and ... LOL.. He actually tried to debate with me as to whether i was doing something wrong.
and i said,
Mate, it's my scope, i can throw it in the bin, i can piss on it if i want , i can pull it apart and take the components out, it's my scope
When he said, but it's our software
i said... "well, You shouldn't have been so stupid so as to lock it via software, and you should have been smart enough to know who you are selling to and what the product is, what did you expect us to do , We are technical people, as soon as we get something home, we open it and check it out, did you honestly expect no one to interrogate the firmware ? so.. since you were banking on no one finding out and we did, i suppose you'll learn for next time won't you , as for now, you gotta cop it on the chin"
he said, when you bring in your scope for service we'll just roll back the update to 70MHz
and i said "actually , no you won't , what you will do is LEAVE THE SCOPE IN A SIMILAR CONDITION AND STATE TO WHICH I BROUGHT IT TO YOU IN"
they had no way out of this , they just had to grin and bear it
Most people kept quiet about the upgrade, i didn't give a fuck
I wonder why they keep putting those 'warranty void' stickers on things... they aren't enforceable.
likely SAMSUNG or TSMC 7nm process given the size, and also the power it is outputting. likely a 10w part.
"Floating Dave Head"...LMAO!
Not a Tek 2 but still a very nicely built scope. I like the shielding and the way the PCB is designed. Just look at all the gold plating and these smoothly rounded traces, it's a thing of beauty and a joy for ever, just like Tektronix did in the '60s. Good job, Rigol engineers! Now, on to Shahriar's teardown... wonder if he'll do one too, haha!
It's way better than the universally panned Tek series 2.
@@NeverTalkToCops1 It's hardly "universally panned". By who? It's a nice scope, it's just not great bang-per-buck. But bang-per-buck is not Tek's domain.
@@EEVblog Tek is more the buck per bang, and being at the bleeding edge, for the time. Then stay as the solid reference for the following 3 decades, to use as a reference device for all who use them.
@@EEVblog Panned by MANY commenters to your video. How casually you dismiss the "bang for buck" factor. "... Not great bang per buck"? Of course, the Tek 2 series is horrible bang for buck. Who buys an 8 bit scope when this 12 bit Rigol scope is available at less bucks? Even Rhode & Schwarz will have sales of their 10 bit RTB 2004 scopes suffer because of these 12 bit Rigol offerings.
@@SeanBZA IF your criteria depends on gear being a viable "reference device" for 3 decades, then have at it. How is the Tek series 2 "bleeding edge" at 8 bit resolution a better value than these Rigol 12 bit offerings.
Why does it need Artix7 and a processor? Couldn't one of then do all the job?
Battery pack is lithium ion and can last up to 4 hrs
Somehow this looks a bit like out of the Cyberpunk 2077 game. I like the look.
不知道是不是打磨后重新刻的丝印
Should have used a hairdryer on that security warrenty tab😂😂😂
Care factor ZERO!
@@EEVblog They sent it knowing it was doomed to be dissected, so know the sticker is going to be sacrificed. They gave the strongest one they had though.
Really interesting that they are using Linux on the Rockchip and there is a JTAG, 4 pin port and 2 switches. That thing is probably easily hackable.
I'll bet you can ssh into the OS from the 4 pin port.
try username root and psw rigol XD
Puffin. The bird..
Aren’t they flightless like penguins? If so that might make it swimming rather than flying.
@@coryengel No, they fly. Very fast too - over 85 KPH.
12:00 "Just a differential pair output buggering off there." That's the second usage of "buggering off" differential pairs used by Daiyve. Is the destination of the "buggering off pairs" the flying albatross on the PCB? Place your bets.
24:25 is that QR code made with vias?
It says "QR code" on the silkscreen, but it's actually a Datamatrix code. It reads "ZRSPYHDO12209050003" w̶h̶i̶c̶h̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶b̶a̶b̶l̶y̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶e̶r̶i̶a̶l̶. (2022-09-05? Third one off the line?)
EDIT: My assumption above is wrong. The serial can be seen at 0:28 and is "HDO4A243700085"
@@henninghoefer I don't know my 2D codes well enough to know the difference. I was just surprised by the way it was made, with vias.
How do you test/prove 12 bit accuracy?
this bird ist a puffin
I'm confused Dave, you keep saying 800mhz scope, but it says 200mhz on the case?
That's because the hardware is an 800MHz scope, only the firmware limits it to 200MHz. You can buy a license code from Rigol and unlock the higher bandwidths.
We where in, but not like flynn...
when your osci is vulnerable to spectre....
the lowest end HDO1000 Model will be 699. thats not bad,
Why would you want to add a DC bias to the frontend?
good for measuring low frequency noise/drift for power supply circuit?
I was also confused. Everything should be software controlled.
It's using custom Rigol chips - what if they need to be replaced one day?
it has BGA chips - so hard to fix if not impossible.
The multitude of tiny switch mode power supply chips doesn't look durable to me.
I've seen chips like that cooked on PCBs.
As Dave says at 16:00 those tracks and parts look very whimpy for 50 ohm mode.
Are they 5 thou tracks and tiny resistors?
So could they burn out in some situations?
BGAs actually aren't too bad anymore; even if you're not comfortable with or don't have a good hot air gun they have a broad hoof attachment for most irons that let you take them off in seconds. Then you can stencil on some solder paste (stencils are optional, but cheap and helpful), heat it again to create the ball, and then plop it back down and zap it again quick with some heat and you're done!
I think the hardest part for me with custom chips is the supply. Dries up quickly after production and then you're dead in the water if you need one down the road.
@@Chilangosta - in theory that is OK but in practice it's hard to get a reliable repair.
You can't see if your solder connections are all OK.
Did you know that they check BGA connections with an X-Ray system in the factories?
@@Chilangosta - yes - they make only a certain number of chips and that's it.
Factories will often order an extra 10% to keep as spare stock
so they can do repairs and that's all there is.
They use too many custom chips to cut down the cost of mass production.
In the good old days design engineers would try their best to use chips
that were available from at least 3 different sources but not anymore.
Some chips now even need factory firmware to operate them too.
You'd never be give that.
The repair game is a thing of the past in many cases.
Hack it!! 🙏
You hack it by hand entering bits via the small pushbuttons on the board. This takes 12 hours, and if you make a mistake, the scope becomes bricked.
Dude, your SNR is like -42 dB
19:16 second front-end output could be for triggering
Maybe in a few years, fully hacked for cheap on ebay....
I'd love to see you hack this to run some Android apps on it.
Just I thought but I bet the IQ at the end of the front end IC probably means its an IQ demodulator which explains the dual differential pair from each channel.
Dust?
wanna sell it. i just lost my house in sydney to a hurricane and need to buy a 121gw next week and you can send that with it. haha, funny, not funny. Sydney, Nova Scotia Canada. i had just bought a new siglent scope and needed a new dmm. if you do see this how long is shipping to canada from your store do ya know?
I wonder how many osciloscope you have lol
seemly no serdes chips
Didn't you JUST buy the thing?!
you mean to say you do not take apart new stuff immediately? its where all the cool stuff is
"Don't turn it on, take it apart!"
Oh-oh .... my "Like" just put the count to 666
What? These things are using google's Android OS nowadays? Gee, guess I'm getting old
Android? I would have bet they would use gnu/Linux..
Congratulations getting the Silicon manufactured I suppose.
Given that China is only interested in making
Yeah they cheaped out on the rock chip soc, it's a turd processor for bottom of the barrel tablets and cheap TVs, performance is horrible as well as software support
It may not be a high end SoC indeed but there was a time not so long ago when a scope did not need a 6 core 64-bit CPU running at 2 GHz 😉
@@MrJef06 and that's.how you get sluggish unresponsive UI as soon as you do anything than displaying a basic waveform. That manufacturers always cheaped out and put underperforming soc does not excuse them
SOO UNFORTUNATELY. THIERS ALWAYS AN UNFORTUNATE. THE RESON FOR THE HEAT SINKS AND FAN IS TO DRAW DIRT AND DUST IN AND OVER HEAT IT IN YEAR SO IT OVER HEATS AND YOU HAVE TO BUY NEXT YEARS MODEL. THAT'S THE REASON ALWAYS FOR THE FAN. ALWSYS. YOU CAN ALWAYS DESIGN ANY THING THAT RUNS COOLER OR HAS A FAN FILTER. THIS IS PURLEY TO KILL IT IN A YEARS TIME