International 8 Ball Rules Part 1 - The Break | Pool School
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ธ.ค. 2022
- This is the first video in a series of videos looking at International 8 Ball Rules in pool. In part 1 I talk through the break and how colour sets are decided. Coming from a World rules background I discuss how this set of pool rules differs and things to be aware of.
The International 8 ball pool rules have now been adpoted by the World Eightball Pool Federation (WEPF) and the English Pool Association (EPA) and is the rule set used in the Ultimate Pool Series. Formerly known as Supreme rules, this rule set was billed as a hybrid of World Rules and Blackball rules. It aims to simplify the rules and brind things closer to the rules played in American 8 ball and Chinese 8 ball.
The shots are carried out on a 7ft Supreme Winner UK 8 ball table
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Balls without case
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8 Ball Cue Rack
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we’re moving to the rule set in the new year in my pub! i’ve been playing a bit of them here and there and watching a bit of ultimate pool, looking forward to this series!
so glad i stumbled upon this just getting back into pool after a couple of decades, this whole series is going to be my visual bible for a fair few months. Thank you very much
We are just changing to these in Australia to starting next year.
Glad you are going to be covering these 🙃🤘
Hi. Glad your back making regular videos again. Your new pool room looks great!. In the Gloucester pool leagues we are going to be switching to international rules next season. Like you we are in our mid winter season break playing world rules. I have become quite accustomed to international rules now though as the singles league I play in down my local club switched to international rules. The rules are far more attacking and more fun. It encourages players to practice potting and position along with clever cannons. Not just covering pockets and trying their hardest to get two shots during the frame like you get in world rules.😂. In my opinion it's the correct set of rules going forward if the EPA and other pool bodies want to grow English pool so that it's better for TV and can start catching up with snooker in popularity. Keep it up mate. I'd love to have my own pool room and be able make videos. 👍
Very useful information.....After a 20 year hiatus I am playing the game again and needed to get up to speed with all the new/revised rules. I appreciate the effort you put into the vid........
Brilliant video. Makes understanding them easy.
I've been playing with the international set of rules for a year. Games are much more open and fun but still strategic.
Great set of 3 videos, easy to follow, Question: when scratching on the break the ball-in-hand is anywhere behind the line, but if object ball are up near the Balk rail can you shoot backwards or is that in another set of rules?
Thanks. Yes you can shoot in any direction.
This series will be really useful, keep up the good work
Hi thx for sharing your knowledge i have a question if a foul break is played its rerack and for example if the next player breaks and its a dry break do they get another visit?
No problem. No they don’t, it’s just a normal break, there are no 2nd visits in International rules in any situation.
Thank you for this video.
I have been asked, do you have to break by hitting the front of the pack with the cue ball. I have a pearson trying to come off the cushion and hit the back of the pack to break. Another person has said you have to hit a ball in the front three rows.
You can hit the pack however you like as long as it results in a legal break (3 points scored).
Do you count any ball that passed into the baulk half of the table or is it based on where they lie after the break? I'm assuming where they lie so you don't have to keep track of all the balls as they fly around the table.
It's balls that "pass" the imaginary line, not where they finish up. So for example if a ball passes the line, heads up the table, bounces off the cushion and then comes back down again and ends up at the rack end, it is still deemed as having passed the line. You're right, it is tricky to see this at full speed.
Great video mate thanks, and keep em coming cause I like to be accross the rules better than any 1 play against . I gather the white ball doesn't count on the break and doesn't score a point if u draw it back past the imaginary centre line,is that correct
Cheers. Yes that’s correct, only object balls count.
And that’s just the break….🙄
@@gozitan5 it seems alot. But this rule set is actually easier to pick up. I've still got a few grey areas but its not to bad to learn
ohh thats interesting because always thought you just re rack if you mange to pot the black on break .
at least that's what i do .
finding these videos interesting because think pool is one most highest games that a lot people have a different ways of playing pool . world rules seems one most use...... unless in tournament
so am interested watching part 2
Great video; may be worth noting that if only the 8 ball is potted on a legal break, play passes to your opponent, but if the 8 ball and another colour is potted also, the player breaking continues play from there, with an open table still. :D
Just seen your next video lol 😁
Cheers. Just about to point you in that direction 😁
i would like to see the same kind of series for world rules . when you refrence the world rules it gets me confused as i play aussie old pub rules....
On the break if u pot a color ball and the black do u continue with your visit or is it a lost of turn
You continue your visit, the black is just re-spotted.
Hi, what if its open table and you pot a red(for example) and pot the white too, does it continue as open table or the reds are yours? Thanks
It’s still open. A ball needs to be potted legally to claim the colour.
Think I better start reading up then as there is good chance we will go to those rules next year in my local league.
Is an object ball deemed to have only passed the centre line to achieve a point if the entire ball has passed it (as in football VAR)?
Yes the whole ball
Great video! Just a little confused about one section though. You've mentioned that if you go for the yellow and the red gets potted first, then the play passes to your opponent. In the next scenario you use the yellow ball to pot the red first and then the yellow gets in but you are then yellow. But isn't this the same scenario as the previous one in which case shouldn't the play simply pass to your opponent?
No. If you strike the colour you are going for first (in this case yellow) it doesn't matter if you pot an opponents ball (before or after the yellow). If you pot succesfully pot a yellow after striking a yellow first, you claim yellows, regardless of if or when any reds are potted.
In the case of using the yellow to pot the red and then the yellow in the same shot, would play pass to the opponent as you potted their ball?
No, if you strike the yellow first and then it is potted, it doesn’t matter that you potted the red. You claim yellows and continue with your next shot.
Problem is with me is I dont know what rules to play with half the time. Will play a bit of international rules and some from the old english pool rules, bits and bobs really. Me and my mate seem to pick and choose the rules we like and play with them. Problem is I wonder if the rules even make sence anymore the amount of different rules mixed in. Sometimes we change rules a few games in. Its actually harder than you think to stick to a certain set of rules when theres so many different rule sets you can play too. Old english rules, world rules, black ball and international lol. Playing american 8 ball dosent make it any less confusing either when transtioning back to english pool.
Hi again, you say in the example of potting the red but hitting the yellow first that this isn’t a foul, play just passes to next player, but is play from where you left the white or does next player have ball in hand behind the line?
From where the ball lies because it’s not a foul.
@@PoolSchool is it still an open table or are you on yellows then
Another question. In the world rules league I play, nobody calls a foul for push shots. What’s the position on push shots in International rules?
Push shots are not allowed so it is a foul. Push shots are also a foul in WR
If I play a 3pt break and one of those points is the black being potted is it still a legal break but black returned to spot or foul and re rack??
Yep still a legal break and black ball re-spotted. If the black was the only ball potted then play passes to your opponent. If another ball was potted as well then you carry on.
If u hit the yellow into the red and pot the red but the yellows stands on the table. The turn is passed to your opponent. That I find clear but you didn’t mention if your opponent is now on red or is it still an open table?
Still open table.
When cue ball and black are touching in the final moment after potting all object balls, do the touching ball rule count? I.e should one play away towards cushion or play together?
Yes it's still a touching ball so you have to play away.
@@PoolSchool thanks so much..I argued with a lot of folks so much.
If you pot the 8 ball from the break how would you retrieve it too put back on the table in a coin operated table...is this rule correct
Yes the rule is correct but you are also correct that you wouldn't be able to do this on a coin operated table. Unfortunately there are some rules that don't take that into account. It's the same as if a ball hanging over a pocket, drops without being contacted. The ball should be replaced but again you can't do that without putting another coin in the slot!
Thanks for the videos. What happens if the 8 ball is pocketed on the same shot the last object ball is pocketed? Also, what happens if both the cue ball and 8 ball are pocketed when they are the last balls remaining?
Thanks. Both situations are lose of frame.
@@PoolSchool thank you sir
What if you smash a colour or the black off the table on the break? Do they get respotted?
Yes and it's a standard foul. That applies to the break and at any other point in the game.
a colour which pass the middle pockets counts as 1 point... If it hits the bulk cush, comes down and drops in another pocket, does it then count as 2 points (for passing middle and potting)?
No if a ball is potted it counts as 1 point regardless of whether it has passed the line.
Thank u
Is it true that when the cue ball is potted on the break, the next player is only allowed to play down the table, or can you play towards the head of the table too?
You can play in any direction.
@@PoolSchool sorry but are you certain of any direction?? 🙏
Thanks. The distinctions are useful. What about this situation, which you described: After the break, table still open, player 2 aims for yellow, but pots a red instead. They can't claim reds, but then player 1 does what? Is the table still open? This happened last night, and neither of us were sure.
Yes its still open. If player 2 doesn’t pot the colour they struck first then they haven’t claimed that colour so it’s still open and player 1 can go for whatever they like.
Is it a foul ?
If you pot a ball on break, nominate yellow but don't pot it, as it continues open table does your opponent need to nominate as well? Thansk
If you don’t pot the table is still open. You don’t need to nominate, only if it is unclear which ball you are intending to hit.
Player comes to the table after dry break, the first shot he pots red first and stuns off cushion and pots a yellow, is it a skill shot, loss of turn shot or a foul?
As long as it was clear they were aiming at the red (and if not nominated the red), then they have claimed reds and continue. The fact the yellow was potted afterwards doesn't matter.
At 6:50 because you didn’t pot yellow u say it’s not a foul, does that mean it’s still a free table or are you on yellows but not a foul
Yes its still open table
If you nominate a colour after the break and hit a ball of that colour but fail to pot it, is it still a free table for the next player?
In international rules, yes it is still a free table.
The Break:
Rule "4f" makes the distinction between "Object Balls" potted and "Each Ball" passing the centre line.
Does that mean the cue ball counts as a point if it comes back over the centre line?
You’re right, it does say Object ball when talking about balls potted but just “each ball” when talking about balls crossing the centre line. However I’m pretty sure it is referring to each ball from the rack so doesn’t include the cue ball.
@@PoolSchool How hard would it be for them to write "each object ball", which would remove all doubt?
Completely agree
When breaking, do you get points for balls that pass the middle line and come back to where they started?
Yes
@@PoolSchool Thank you very much
If after the break the blackball only is potted and the three point rule is satisfied....after the blackball is respotted does play resume for the player breaking off or is the table turned over to the opponents?
It’s a legal break but play passes to your opponent. You have to pot either a red or a yellow to continue.
👍
What if the black is potted off the break but a red/yellow covers the black spot? Is it nearest point?
Yes, nearest point on the line between the black spot and the cushion.
what size is the white ball in the new international rules??
It’s the same size as it is for all rule sets played on English pool tables, 1 and 7/8th Inch.
Does a potted white count a point towards legal break
No a potted white means play passes to your opponent and they have cue ball in hand behind the baulk line. Unless it was also an illegal break, in which case it is a re-rack and opponents choice of break.
If black ball is the only one left on the table and I pot it but the cue ball doesn't hit a rail, what happens?
That’s absolutely fine. When you pot any ball, including the black, a ball doesn’t have to hit a rail. If a pot is NOT made, you have to hit a rail with EITHER the cue ball or any other ball.
I have a quick question
In regards to the break
what happens if a foul break occurs ie 3 points have not be scored but the cue ball also comes off the table
Thanks in advance
Still just a foul break and the other players choice of break. It has to be a legal break first and foremost before anything else comes into play.
If my oponent misses a shot the cue ball doesnt hit any of his balls or hits mine am I allowed to pick the cue ball and place it anywhere i want and play ?
Yes
What happens when a player goes to break but miss cues and cue ball leaves the table without splitting the pack?
It’s a foul break and the opponent gets to choose who breaks.
Interesting. I never did like the 2 shot foul rule. What I would like to see is the American tables with European sized pockets. That would test them. 😉
Suppose I pot the black off the break, and somehow get my 3 points to make it a legal break... Do I continue, or is it passed on to my opponent?
Yes you continue and the black is just re-spotted.
@@PoolSchool It depends, if the eight ball is the only ball potted on a “Legal Break” then control of table goes to incoming player, after re-spotting the black ball. If it’s potted with other colours and the criteria of a “Legal Break” has been fulfilled, the breaker continues, after re-spotting the black ball.
Yes that’s right. Sorry if I wasn’t clear in the previous reply. You only continue if you pot a red or yellow. The black is just counted as a point but doesn’t mean you continue if it is the only ball potted.
In the event of breaking the black ball in, is it loss of turn?
It depends what else happens. If the ball ball is the only ball potted then yes it's loss of turn. If it's the black and another ball, then the black is re-spotted and you carry on.
@@PoolSchool Thank you very much
so what rules are "blackball" rules? or is that a different rule set?
Yes Blackball rules are another rule set.
@@PoolSchool- The best ruleset.
Unsure on the ruling, but when potting on the break, the table is still deemed open, does play then pass to the opponent?
As you haven't potted an 'on' ball, so surely your visit is then over.
Can't see a rule that results in your visit continuing, but this seems wrong
No if you pot a ball off the break then you are still in control of the table. You are correct that it is still open until a legal pot is made though. Play passes to your opponent if no ball is potted from the break or the black is the only ball potted.
@@PoolSchool makes sense and is what we play, but can you point out the rule that triggers this. Reading the latest version, nothing seems to give a continuation when potting on the break, unless I'm missing something
I’m thinking about buying a pool table. What size is the table in this video?
It’s a 7ft English pool table
@@PoolSchool Thanks a lot🙏
Is it a loss of turn when:
- Player makes a legal break, no standard foul, pockets some coloured balls
- Cue ball comes to rest touching a red
- Table is open, Player calls yellow
- Player plays away from the red, striking a yellow first, and potting a yellow
Is that a loss of turn because the cue ball struck the red first? Or is it continue visit because the cue ball struck the yellow first?
Hmmm...good question and one I'm not entirely sure on. I would say loss of turn because like you say you are touching the red at the start of the shot. If that was the case then if you called yellows the ref would probably correct you and say you can't call them as you are touching the red. That's just my take on it though. I will try and find out for you from an official source.
In this case because the player nominated the yellow ball even though they are touching the red, if they pot it they are yellows. Its a loss of turn if from a touching ball you fail to nominate or you pot a different colour set from the one you nominate..so say you nominate reds, miss it completely and pot a yellow. Hope that makes sense. Just remember 1 thing from an open table touching ball always nominate.
When breaking can you break the pack from behind?
Yeah if you want to.
When having ball in hand after a foul shot has taken place, are you allowed to either place the white yourself, or ask the referee to place the white as a touching ball?
The ref picks up the ball and hands it to you (or takes it out of the return if in-off), but then you place it whereever you want on the table yourself.
@@PoolSchool thanks for the reply but perhaps my point was not clear. What I meant is can u place the white against another ball so that it would be touching? then you could play away, hit a cushion and have played a legal shot, perhaps to play a snooker on a tough table layout
My guess would be "No, you cannot place the cue ball so that it is touching another ball" as it sounds like common sense.
Please answer the question @poolschool...
I can’t find a specific reference to that in the rules but when talking about “re-spotting balls that have left the table” it mentions about if the black spot is occupied, placing balls as close to the object ball as possible but without touching. As someone said above, common sense would suggest the same when placing cue ball in hand. If you try to place it touching a ball then you have effectively made contact with it which is a foul.
@@PoolSchool You are right I believe.
What happens if an object ball leaves the table during the game.
It's a standard foul and the object ball is re-spotted on the black spot (or as close as possible)
Can you leave your opponent snookerd from a lose of turn shot?
Yes you can
If the table is open and you play a yellow onto a red and pocket the red are you now playing red? Is that a legal shot?
No, you have to pot the colour the cue ball strikes first to claim that colour. If you play the yellow onto the red and pocket the red, you would have to also pocket the yellow to claim yellows. You can’t claim reds because you hit a yellow first.
@Pool School In South Africa my local pool hall we play blackball rules. I'm not sure if it's the same as international eight?
No “International 8 ball” and “blackball” rules are different.
@Pool School Thank you. Been putting into practice your tips. My game is improving.
So it’s not a foul to hit your opponents ball first accidentally just loss of turn?
Only when the table is open and colours are yet to be decided. If you call a group and fail to hit that group it is loss of turn. In normal play (once colours have been decided) if you hit your opponent’s ball first it is a foul.
can we use rest in 8 ball pool
Yes
didnt say what happens after the blacks respotted if it goes in off break- dissappointed was hoping we'd get golden breaks for black going in
Is there no ‘golden break’ in international rules then?
Nope
@@PoolSchool I see there's a Golden Break/Duck in the Ultimate Pool series. Are they playing a variation of International rules then? Cheers
Must be as it’s not in the standard rule set. The black just counts as one point and is then re-spotted.
Ultimate Pool add the Golden Break / Golden Duck to some of their competitions but it’s not standard in International Rules
In International eight-ball pool, if only two balls cross the imaginary center-line of the table between the centers of the two middle pockets, and the white ball (cue ball) comes off the table, you receive ball in hand. This means you can place the cue ball anywhere on the table for your next shot without re-racking the balls1.
I’m not a qualified ref but I think you are wrong here. The rule of it needing to be a legal break (3 points) overrides anything else so it is a re-rack. If it was a legal break, then yes it would be ball in hand anywhere on the table. I am in the international referees organisation Facebook page and this scenario has come up before and it is a re-rack if not a legal break.
i did ask google for this and this is what came back . would be good to confirm one way or other as there is conflicting answers. to this question between teams . thanks. @@PoolSchool
I have checked with a qualified ref and it is definitely a re-rack. If it is not a legal break, then it doesn’t matter what else happens, it overrides anything else and it is a re-rack with the break (or choice of break) passing to the other player.
Hi
I think you have misinterpretated rule 4h in this video.
I think top of the table is the rack end.
It would be nearly impossible for no space to spot the ball if you are correct.
Other than that thanks great video.
Looking forward to part 2
You may well be right and I doubted this a little when I read it. The rule says "between the black sopt and the center of the top cushion and if that is unavailable, between the black spot and the bottom cushion". I've always reffered to the top of the table as the baulk end but as you said it would be impossible to for there to be no space on this line. I personally feel that that rule needs re-writing as "top" and "bottom" are a bit ambigious unless you say where you are looking from?
@@PoolSchool thanks for the reply.
Sorry to be a downer.
Love your videos.
Looks like you got a new pool room and table.
Best of luck.
No problem at all. As I said at the start I'm just learning these myself and basically just interpreting the rules as they are written. Cheers.
We in South Africa have decided to define the 2 cushions as Baulk Cushion (Obvious) and Foot Cushion (Cushion opposite baulk cushion). Makes re-spotting balls easier to explain. If the black ball spot is occupied, it goes between the spot and the foot cushion as close as possible to the spot. If there is no space, it gets replaced between the spot and the baulk cushion as close as possible to the spot.
That’s how it should be written in the official rules as top and bottom means nothing!
Only issue i have seen with these is calling someone when it is a deliberate foul but they jave tried to make it look like a genuine attempt.
Have a go at Balls falling without being Hit. And having to nominate either a touch ball on an open table as well as the need to nominate when playing towards a group of colours and choice is not obvious to the ref.
I have answered this on your other post on part 3.
Any clarity on this
If you pot the 8 ball on the break then you automatically win the the frame. Not put it back on the table. It's called a golden break when this happens.
No that is an additional rule adopted for some competitions but it is not in the standard rule set.
What happens if only 8 ball is potted on break?
If only the 8 ball is potted and it was a legal break (3 points scored). The 8 ball is re-spotted and play passes to your opponent and it is open table.
Thank you
@@PoolSchool what about golden break? It is a common rule but tournament/league based
@@martink1733 Yeah the golden break is a "tournament specific" rule which you might see in things like the Ultimate Pool tournaments. It isn't in the standard rule set though
Is there no golden break in these rules?
Not in the standard rule set. It is an added rule in some tournaments and competitions.
@@PoolSchool with regards to going in off on the break. You get ball in hand behind the line right? What if the cue ball jumps off the table?
Yea that’s right. If it jumps off the table it is a foul so it’s ball in hand anywhere on the table.
Good luck explaining get out your garage or man cave do some travelling it’s different experience and rules worldwide people would laugh 😹 every country is different thankfully 😅
I thought it was 4 points rule not 3 now i am confused
Not sure whether it was 4 points at some point but it’s definitely 3 now.
Them are the rules I play in our league
Free ball and then a visit even if you don't pot a ball is good as in blackball rules.
I don't like the idea of 'international' rules (let's be honest, American) being a replacement for british rules in tournaments. When I set up to a english pool table I want english rules be it blackball, world or whatever. Let's not lose what makes this version of the game unique and to be honest I prefer them.
3 points from the break off? Jesus a straight forward game of pool ruined by some committee. Beam me bloody up!
Why couldn't we have just one set of rules?🤔🤔🤔
I agree life would be so much easier! I don’t really know the history of how the different rule sets came about, but almost impossible to convince everyone to play the same rules now that they all exist. Lots of people are too stubborn to change and will argue “their rules” are better.
Zero chance any of these will filter to Aussie pubs 😂
2 shots has to be the worst rule ever invented.
Deliberate fouling is
Agree , what one shot rules do you follow mate ? I'm looking for a good simple one shit rule system to laminate and post in my pool room , I just don't like the Australian version used where you must contact a cushion after contact !
Honestly, I think the 2 shot rule works a lot better than moving it anywhere you like and playing in any direction
@@SimonClementsHawes then you are a total novice.
@@cuesportclips11 it's just my opinion - I preferred the skill-check of getting out of a foul situation and/or setting up a position if needed.
A lot of laughs to be had under the international rules for sure though - I'm still adjusting to them.