A FRIGHTENING MAVIC CARBON WHEEL FAIL (at speed)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
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A Specialized Tarmac with Mavic Cosmic Pro Carbon UST wheels travels down a famous descent in the New York area, Bear Mountain. A combination of heat and impact causes both carbon wheels to break, with the front wheel shattering into pieces. The Specialzied Tarmac goes down and so does the rider. We're calling him 'John' for the purposes of this piece. Thankfully he not only survives but he walks away! This video today is a reminder to us all about the dangers of carbon rims and even more so, carbon rims with rim brakes. Raoul Luescher gives us a great overview of what most likely happened and the ways we can mitigate accidents like this happening.
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#Carbon #wheels #learnings
Hi All, I should have pointed out in the video that I did email Mavic on Monday this week - with pictures from the incident - requesting feedback from them so I could provide a 360-degree perspective here. Unfortunately, I didn't hear back from them. Cheers, Cam
Not sure what their current trading status is -
road.cc/content/news/mavic-receivership-how-did-it-come-273345
Mavic is currently fighting for financial survival, they were in trouble before and the covid crisis was a bit of a nail in the coffin for them. They might actually close down for good. They seem like a huge company because of their visibility with the Tour, the amount of wheels they sell but they only are a couple of hundred people (big for the bike industry but small outside of it). In this context, it might be difficult for them to have time to answer your email etc.
Mavic's approach to making a small fortune in the bike industry:
Start with a large fortune!
(I know this joke is as old as the hills, but still worth a post!)
I will be very sad to see Mavic go if they go belly up. Millions of nice wheels ridden billions of miles. Then again, perhaps a restructuring could right the ship.
I recently had some issues with some Crossmax Elite alloy wheels (on separate occasions - first the rear, then the front). In the first instance, I made initial use of the warranty contact form, and when the only thing I got back was "we're really busy and will get back to you when we can," I went old school and picked up the phone and called them. Had a new warranty replacement wheel within a couple days. For the front wheel, it was technically out of warranty when I was trying to replace a bearing that it turned out had bonded to the hub body because some epoxy seeped out during construction, and again, after calling them directly, they replaced it quickly even though they didn't have to. My advice when it comes to Mavic is just don't bother with electronic communication. In my experience if you pick up the phone, and get a person on the other end, and they are absolutely excellent to deal with. Not only did I get both wheels replaced under warranty, but both replacements were upgrades.
you'll be lucky to get a refund you will have to pay return postage They are a bunch of c...s, with poor quality control.
I had an accident few years ago and it haunted me for at least a week. I was so afraid to ride bike even in my usual route. I hope that buddy won't suffer from anything like that. Wish for speed recovery buddy.
I can appreciate that situation for sure. Get the same way after being hit by a car. Thanks for sharing Pramish
@@CamNicholls you're welcome 🤗🤗
🙏
@@pramishregmi5321 that's normal it's happened to me a few times the last one I was off my bike for a year and I'm a daily rider to give u an idea how spooked I was
the hero in this story is the helmet! so many people not wearing them nowadays.
After many crashes and a head-on two years ago I always wear mine now.
I raced motorcycles and know how to fall & roll, but the head-on was an eye-opener for sure.
Good thing he had others there to help. I mostly ride alone...
I've crashed a few times at relatively low speeds (cyclocross and cross country) where the helmet came in handy, but thankfully never on the road.
I never go on a bike ride without a helmet.
My father claims he don't need a helmet because he's only riding on the side walk (legal in my country) and at low speeds, but guess who went OTB and landed on his head when he applied way too much force on the brakes?
Just yesterday a friend of mine crash while our afternoon ride. Luckily his helmet broke not his head! It was at about 30km/h, when the car pulled in front of him! Always wear helmets guys!
Absolutely!!!!!!
People in my area get shamed if they ride MTB without helmets. I have only ever seen teenage kids without helmets in the last 2 years. For some reason they think they are invincible.
Everyone that knows carbon wheels, knew exactly what happened the moment he said he was in a decent. Then, to add he's 100kg... Man that's a recipe for disaster.
Great video. A real eye opener. This is the No 1 reason why I never bothered with all carbon wheels on a rim brake bike. Disc brake bikes - much less issue of this sort of failure.
Rider weight though is still a consideration.
Totally
Two words: Disc Brakes
Haha
So why cavendish went down?
@@ruiteixeira1594 if you slow down the video you can see the rider next to him caught cavendish's wheel with his front wheel and that's when the fold happened
@@ruiteixeira1594 he had rim brakes
be aware, Aussie sugar addict will pop out and troll u in no time
This. Is why I run aluminum wheels. Also I'm broke but mainly for safety.
Aluminium wheels can also fail in the same matter.
@@philipcooper8297 Jokes falling on dumb ears are my favourite
My alloy wheels cost more than carbon, and I’ll pay a lot more too.
@@philipcooper8297 - where and when and how? Very rare event, if so. Very rare.
@@robertp7209 calm down Robert, you’re an intense N0nce
I know many riders who have “downgraded to carbon fiver wheels” with no gain in performance whatsoever, every time they hit a ripple on the road, they want to stop and inspect the wheels, what kind of life is that? I assume it’s good for professional athletes with deep pocket sponsors, but the look factor is the only gain on this.
What are you talking about! Aluminum wheels deform (not brake), tires off and you fly like a bird. Want to be safe; then ride max at 40 mph, weight
@@anata5127 agree. A good pair of carbon rims built right with rider weight less then 80kg, will never have issues. Just be smart and know the limits of your equipment.
This.
I don't want to have to think about my equipment on the ride - I just want to ride. And assuming that I've properly maintained the bike, and IT makes ME look good when I'm OFF of it that's plenty good-enough. (Hell, I should be able to ride an UGLY bike and not care; anyone close-enough to me to form an opinion about my ride is too close...which is a "me" problem for both under-training AND over-caring.)
@@anata5127 Since the issue is one of compromises if you're going to ride at all, the real question is reasonability of construction materials used. So although you're correct that aluminum wheels aren't *guaranteed* to not fail, the relative advantages and disadvantages of the alternative have to be considered as well.
That said, when carbon fiber breaks, the rate for catastrophic failure is EXTREMELY high relative to aluminum. In addition, wheel integrity is probably the single most-important consideration on a bike (followed closely by the stem) since failure at either of those points GUARANTEES a fall.
The question then becomes a simple one: what demonstrable gain is worth the significantly-increased possibility of a catastrophic wheel failure for which there is no engineering solution? (Relative to carbon fiber as a construction material for wheels, caliper brakes can CERTAINLY make carbon fiber *worse*, but disk brakes DON'T make carbon fiber *better*...)
@@xunder3 I just wonder how many carbon wheels failed, if they are not from China, no rim brakes and no speed over 40mph? My guess almost none.
Well done on 2 years Cam .keep going mate.
Cheers Lance, hope you're well mate and the recovery is coming along. Cam
im just going to add this to my list of 'reasons to avoid carbon, and to stick to alloy'
"I don't mean to throw Mavic under the bus ... Maybe explore some other brands" 😂
I don’t understand why someone dislikes an instructive vidéo?
Any way thank you very much for sharing the priceless information and happy 2 years🎉
This reminds us to rethink the braking process down hills and to never take risks in an known and unknown terrain.
I often ask the same question mate! Even Neill’s videos get disliked. I don’t know how. Thanks to the support 👍
THIS HAPPENS ON DISC BRAKE WHEELS TOO ,l ve seen colasped wheels at the LBS with disc brakes from an impact SO FoR THIS REASON ALLOY WHEELS ONLY FOR ME !!
Correct. The braking force from a disc brake goes where? it is applied down each spoke to each spoke nipple, putting pressure on the carbon area around each spoke. So carbon disc brake wheels are not fool-proof.
@@zoso73 but the heat doesn't transfer to the rim with disc brakes, what kills the carbon clinchers is the high temps from braking.
@@zoso73 I would think that the pressure across all the spokes would be small enough as it is distributed across multiple areas, for the most part, evenly. No?
@@nachelia in theory, that is correct. Very important to buy good quality DB carbon wheels from known manufacturers.
bianchi1885 Mavic is reputable manufacturer.
HAPPY TWO YEARS BABE!
Sah amazing that you remembered your two year TH-cam Anniversary because you’ve never once remembered any of ours.
Details.
🤣🙋♀️
Meeeaaaoooww 😹
Oooohh burn. 🔥 Payback for the FTP stalker vid 🤣😝
Oops!
Alice: Don’t be an insufferable wench. Be nice.
Hahahah
Nice video once more, my friend. I know that "brands"will never say that carbon is not recommended for those who weight more than 85 kg. But that's what i recon. 85kg is the limit, because the factors that the specialist describe, such as temperature, bumps and so on. Today we have lots of good aluminum wheels and frames. I don't see point to run the risk. Hope you conquer more and more success in youtube! Greetings from Bauru-são paulo-Brazil.
Sounds like a very good argument for disk brakes on bikes... My rim/tire combo will never get that hot
Yes correct J 👍
I've seen more mavic wheels explode under high heat than any other brand. I know 3 guys with mavics that exploded during descending. I've never had a problem with quasar, ffwd and scope. I don't brake much and only race on tubs but I train on carbon clinchers.... I think it depends on more variables other than cArBoN cLinChErS
Also, Cavendish’s wheel folded when the other rider hit it at and angle and ran it over. It didn’t fold then the other cyclist hit it.
Yes we all saw it. Even so the rim should have deflected that impact and bend or shatter afterwards.
Cam your a legend Bro! Keep it up! I have nightmares about my carbon fork failing during a descent. I never knew about wheel failure! Thanks Cam for the info.
Fascinating! Thanks mate! Although not a catastrophic failure of carbon rimmed wheels, I bought a Trek Pro 6,9 with Bontrager carbon wheels. I live in the Pyrénées and we hit high velocities going downhill!! Braking from about 70km/h to about 30km/h on a hair-pinned downhill, so repeated and constant braking, the rim of the front wheel suddenly "exploded out" warping on both sides of the rim at the same point and blocked my wheel against the brake. I slid and skidded and my mates behind me have no idea how I stayed upright! Trek (Bontrager) were awesome and even though the wheels were outside their guarantee they gave me a rebuild. I paid shipment to and from the factory. It happened again about 2 years later, though this time not so violently and I stopped before the explosion using my rear brake. Apparently it is something that does happen. A couple of mates of mine have had the same experience with other makes of wheel. Raoul's explanation is the reason. Extremely high temperatures. Also, in both instances it was on hot summer days
Thanks for sharing mate
Came here from Luescher Teknik's channel... Yeah, you're right, Cam, I did find the images distressing because he could've easily been killed, and it's easy to imagine either yourself, or someone you know, lying there on the ground all bloodied and knocked out. So glad he's okay and was able and happy to talk to you (and us) about his experience. My instinct was to only buy carbon rims in the future if they have disc brakes, watching this, yeah I feel justified in thinking this.
Also, another clear case where wearing a helmet saves lives.
Great video!
When I was looking at a new bike I wanted disc brakes with carbon rims just for longevity and durability but this is another good reason 🥵
This was one of the reasons I got myself a disk brake road bike. I did not trust carbon rim brake wheels
@@Efu884 but alloy wheels
You guys are so right. Rim brakes will eventually damage the carbon wheels
Well in my case I did have issue with carbons disc wheel. Some brands don’t use the same “glue” or “epoxy” to make them because no heat generated by brake pad. Then it is very fragile and heat is everywhere (be careful when you take your bike in a car : sun or heat pipe). Best choice is aluminium.
Stefan - bike manufacturers converting to disc because they have to, carbon was never suited as a heat transfer medium. Liability issues between tire and tube manufacturers and bike companies. And besides it jacks the price up and the usual planned obsolescence, and you can’t go back or forward from rim / disc.
A local Gran Fondo in my area, with a lot of climbing and descents, doesn’t allow carbon wheels unless you’re riding discs.
They also need to put speed limit rule during descent. No more than 35mph or biker is kicked out from Gran Fondo, local Gran Fondo.
Congats on 2 years Cam , been watching this channel fr about a year and a half now ( got your channel, GPLama Chirs pritch and lanterne rouge blocked at school for watching it in class ) and just want to thank you on the brilliant ideas and training insights you offer
Thank you for doing this video. I cycle up Bear Mtn all the time. The route up 9W to Bear from NYC is a very popular one. Its not unusual at all to hit 50+mph on the way down. I've often thought about what could go wrong in the process and tend to modulate and sit up whenever I can. Glad to hear he is doing okay.
After seeing this, I may opt to get some 'climbing wheels' for just such a ride. Typically I get more worried about braking down those hills in the wet but this adds another element. Although I'll still likely be a rim brake fan as well. Having a friend wake up before a 100mi event with warped rotors has pretty much kept me away from discs.
Happy second Tube-aversary,, Cam! Great work.
Thank you mate!
I had an accident 2 years ago. It was really hot that day, 39C in Germany, was riding my bike and then I blacked out while traveling at around 30 km/h. I don't know how I went down, but I do know that I hit my head on a curb pretty hard, but luckily I was wearing my helmet. Some passengers saw this and rushed to help me, I remember being in an Ambulance Car and getting treated, but I didn't go to the hospital. I don't know why but I started freaking out when I was told that they want to bring me to the Hospital. So they didn't. That's the last memory I have. The next thing I remember is being at home sitting at my computer desk and staring at a wall and having the worst pain in my Arm and Shoulder of my life. I can't remember how I got home, but apparently, I rode my bike home.I lost 6 hours, I don't know where I was or what it did in this time. I did go to the Doctor the next day. I was okay but in a lot of pain. My Arm, Face, and right leg was bruised and scuffed. I remember the reaction my Girlfriend, now Wife had upon first seeing me after the accident. :D. I was scared to get on my bike for the whole month, I couldn't anyway cause it took 6 Weeks for my Arm and Shoulder to heal or at least for the pain to go away. I get more headaches and sometimes shoulder pain since then. And just now writing this story I realize that I could have easily died that day. Always wear a helmet.
Sounds like you had a major concussion. The helmet saved your life for sure :)
Cam - You are a great dad. Nice to see those touching moments and how close you are with your daughters.
Cheers Edward
Congrats Cam for the 2 years on YT and thanks for sharing great info with us in this case for the sake of safety of us riders!! In the scene with Cav I think the situation is different. I do not think that this was caused by structural fail of the wheel in itself. I think if you look at the scenery with half speed it is clear to see that when Cav's front wheel goes side to side, the rider with the polkadot jersey hits the side of Cav's front wheel. So in this case imo mechanical impact into the side of Cav's front wheel is root cause in a race accident. Not that this makes a difference for the problem in general, but I think if we want to learn the most of analysing the scene, this might be considered. All the best to John for a fast and good recovery!!!
⬆️ notice my name, there is a reason for this sarcasm, john found out regrettably too late, glad to hear he is ok
That's it. I'm never riding a bike with rim brakes again!😂
The culprit is carbon wheel not the brakes type
@@tesmith47 It probably never would have happened if the rim brakes hadn't over heated the carbon wheels in the first place, so I strongly disagree with that statement, good Sir. Ad to that the problems with over heating and/or melting rim brake pads for heavy riders during long descents, wear on the rims, mediocre performance in wet conditions and quick wear of the pads in dirty conditions. Each to his own, but I'll just stick to disc brakes, thank you 😂👍
Ye its mostly becus of the carbon fiber resin, but still I think disk brakes are still better option even on alloy wheels.
I really appreciate your calm, concise, and clear presentation style. Subscribed!
Thank you mate, and thanks for supporting the channel
Great video, Cam. Raul is brilliant as ever, cheers
100%, he knows his stuff.
At 95kg, I only ride aluminum wheels for this reason and being a heavy rider.
Yes can appreciate that 👍 thanks for sharing
I made a similar decision. Even on the alloy version of Mavic Cosmics at 100kgs I am at the upper limit of the stated load capacity for the wheel set. The rider in this case, at 100kg - plus bike, kit, water bottles etc, was also probably closer to the 120kg limit for his wheels.
@@kiribatichris That 120kg limit is a joke. Worse yet - Focus states a 110kg system limit on all their bikes. Basically, good for people weighing 85kg. at most sans luggage! Should you bother to do bike packing, shopping or - not to mention - loaded touring - better make sure you're not a gram heavier than 65kg. before you buy a Focus. Thence, I avoid that brand like a plague. Compare them to Trek, who have more or less no weight limit on their bikes (and decidedly none for their carbon wheels).
I would say: It's not about your weight but what kind of riding you do.
Glad to hear he's ok
ALUMINUM RIM is the moral of the story.
Nah i saw aluminum did the same
Way to paint with the wide brush! Nope. The moral of the story is: don't ride carbon wheels with caliper brakes and hard compound pads instead of disc brakes at 70 k/hr while weighing 100 kg. There is nothing inherently wrong with carbon wheels but how you use it.
Hi Cam , I am a social and sometimes long distance and off rode rider am almost 74 yrs young , currently ride an Avanti Montary E bike , with Alloy wheels and Disc brakes , have had no problem with the discs or pads , but with an E bike I have chain Stretch , resulting in renewing the chain at least every 4 months or so , yes I have Granny Gears , but I find the centre drive assist is the culprit of chain stretch , I previously had a Giant Ebike the first was an E wheel front mounted , the second was a smart motion with rear E wheel assistance , on both No chain stretch .
So next E bike I purchase will be with rear E wheel assistance and for most terrains , and definitely No Carbon wheels !
P.S. I did also have a Giant Ebike with centre drive assist and Yes chain stretch was a problem !
Congrats on the 2 years Cam, really enjoyed the content since I found you. Here's to the next 2 years and beyond. And thanks for the Magic heads up, I had no idea they were in receivership. Stay safe
Sounds like we have similar experience with mavic wheels..... just posted my 5 year review video of my Canyon that came with the mavic wheels when i bought it. I melted the brakes on those wheels while descending.... don’t want to spam my video but if you are ok I will share the link🤙🏻
Go for it you cycling fanatic 😆 , cheers, Cam
Cam Nicholls roger cheers 🤙🏻 here we go, 5 YEAR review including melting brakes🔥 on descending:
th-cam.com/video/8vQHjgz_W-8/w-d-xo.html
@@jasperverkuijl ik ken ook meerdere gasten met mavic wielen die problemen hebben gehad. Ik denk dat mavic gewoon de hitte niet goed kan handelen...
I know a few guys who have had problems with exploding mavic and shrapnel flying everywhere...
I think mavic can't handle heat well especially when descending when you're a big guy like Jasper.
Nice the 2 channels I follow talk to each other on each other's channels 😆
If either of you are in NYC hit me up and will take you along the GFNY route where this guy fell, it's breathtaking! I just finished 30 miles of repeats on Alpine Hudson Drive (5,000 ft of climbing). I may Everest there ...
The perfect reason for not running carbon wheels with rim brakes.
quite
totally agree. whats the point of using carbon wheels if they cannot be used in a racing bike with rim brakes ?
My thought exactly. Carbon is cool but just because ya can doesn't mean you should. I live in the Seattle WA area where we have a frequently wet environment and lots of hills. This can make for a very scary ride on those uber cool carbon rims!!!!
The perfect reason is the $$$$.
@@corporalpunishment1133 Oh, I don't know about that. You can get a really nice set of carbon wheels, like the Zipp 303s, for less than $1500, and they come with a lifetime warranty. I remember when my carbon wheels cost me $2500, and they aren't nearly as nice as the Zipps.
Shocking to see that shattered wheel. I've had a hub question outstanding with Mavic for a month. Nobody answers the phone. You're video cleared up a lot for me
A good example of why I bought a disc brake bike. Too much descending through areas where I had to hold some brake for various reasons. I knew I was pushing the Al rims hard because of the way the feel would change when braking hard on long descents, and when I got carbon I just felt like it was too risky. Glad 'John' is ok.
Mavic wheels are pretty reliable, they are manufactured and engineered in France. They've been around for over a hundred years and is certainly no fly by night company, i'd trust Mavic over most other company any day. I dont' think its fair to point out Mavic without fully understanding the elements at play here.
Mavic has factories in Romania & Asia producing carbon rims. It's only the Alloy rims that are manufactured in France
www.bikeradar.com/features/inside-mavics-alloy-rim-factory-and-service-course/
@@kidkarbon4775 i've come across mavic aluminum rims from taiwan (think it was a cxp-21) and the same rim also from france; yet, it was the taiwan version that had islets.
agreed, he said he waw on the bumpy surface and hit a pothole at speeds of 40+ MPH, those are things at play Mr. Lee was speaking of I believe. I will say these variables i would think the rim should be tested for during R&D but I think the pothole and bumps should be considered along with his weight. I prefer Enve who has no weight limits with their carbon wheels and have had no problem with their products.
I crashed on my bike going like 15 mph, woke up in a hospital. I was wearing a helmet and don’t remember what happened. Be careful, and always wear a helmet
Great to hear he is ok and back on the bike. I had a alloy rim fail on a downhill bike once and walked away without major injury (popped my soft ribs) and that was scary, so I can’t even guess how scary that must have been on tarmac.
And this is why it’s always best to ride with someone
I only run Tubular on carbon wheels with rim brake. The maximum temperature of carbon clincher wheel is much lower than tubular version
If you brake too much you can heat the adhesive on carbon tubulars.
@@glennoc8585 Continental is selling you a special carbon rim adhesive. Guess the reason for the special formula?? Rgr
DISC BRAKES TIME 🔥
This was i need to never buy a carbon wheelset. Aluminum wheels 4 ever. 😎😎😎. Hope the guy did not get serious injuries.
Not sure who is buying carbon wheels. They are like $1000+ per wheel and do this? That's insanity. But it is 2020 still...
I bought a used set of carbon wheels at a good price but the had metal braking surfaces. The rear clicked & the front juddered under braking as it got hot. I'm now back with my metal rims but have scratched the 'carbon itch'.
Thanks for sharing. Scary looking at the aftermath. Glad ‘John’ is 👍. Good to see he had a helmet on, probably saved his life. Congratulations on the 2 years anniversary too!
Wild! The NYC to Bear Mountain ride is a very famous route. Didn’t expect to see Bear Mountain on a Cam Nichols vid, what a pleasant surprise! Brutal brutal crash 😱 I don’t know who that is but I’d bet some of my NY Strava buddies know who this person was. Glad the person didn’t have even worse I injuries. I really appreciate your excellent story based on this incident. Thanks Cam 🙏
Thanks very much for the sub title. The guy in glasses tried to explain hot it it happened. But I tell you it happened because the integrity of the material is comprised during manufacturing. That's all. for safety purposes, avoid carbon wheels.
I work at a bike shop and carbon wheels kinda freak me out, once I was setting up tubeless on an Enve and like 15 mins after it was seated the rim cracked and exploded, I thought I would go deaf from the noise, I was fine but a coworker had a similar scenario happen to him and had to pull hundreds of tiny carbon shards from his arm
Sounds like you pressurized the rim due to a tape failure. These are a lifesaver: www.enve.com/en/products/pressure-relief-valve-stem-nut/
Wow! Makes one wonder if carbon is really suitable for high pressure road wheels.
Saved me from buying mavic wheels and carbon wheels on rim brakes.
Congrats on 2 years, love the channel!
Yea I can see this video causing carbon rim brake wheels to take a terminal price hit!
Glad he is feeling well again!!!
Congratulations on two years
Had a chain rip on me when i was standing up sprinting. Went to my Bikeshop and they told me that that should never happen installed a new one and it riped too in the same situation.
Now i am afraid to push my hardest but Working my way back to trust bikes again.
My Chinese carbon rims are tubulars as well as disk brake - sounds like I made the right decision at the time.
Rim brakes on carbon rims is asking for trouble.
I purchased a Giant TCR rim brake bike that came with carbon wheels . Sold them straight away and swapped for ally rims . Carbon for disc wheels only for me ...
Not at all if you have the right equipment, I've descended some of the most technical canyon roads in SoCal & Utah with Zipp Firecrest wheels since 2011 ( mostly on rim brake bikes ) and they just do their job impeccably.
The problem is very much worse if you ride clinchers. As more and more people are.. Using tubulars will NOT give you the expanding pressure from the "tyre" to the sidewall of the rim. Rgr
@@borano2031 True but the manufacturers should not sell clincher specific carbon rims if tubular is considered the safe option.
borano20 What about tubeless?
Great video Cam, thanks for pulling it together so professionally. Certainly gives me food for thought regarding my carbon wheels. Congratulations on two years. Nice channel.
Glad to see he had a helmet on! Puts an end to that discussion.
Are you going discs now?
I’ve got me some alloy ffwd rims a year ago, set weights about 1650 grams (weighted myself, incl. Tape and so on). Dt swiss 240, spokes trued from factory.
Ha the kids have got you worked out. Wrapped around the little finger.
100kg rider, rim brakes, carbon : pick two
100kg as a bike rider is overkill. Get in shape and lose the weight. I dropped over 30lbs just to get into bike shape and it wasn't 30lbs of fat if you know what I mean!
@@TraumaER It also depends on the how tall you are. I am 200 cm tall and weight around 90 kg and would not want to lose weight at this point. But I also decided to buy good alloy wheels two years ago. (My Bike does not have Disc Brakes)
Better yet pick zero
@@TraumaER "100kg as a bike rider is overkill. Get in shape and lose the weight. I dropped over 30lbs just to get into bike shape *and it wasn't 30lbs of fat if you know what I mean!* "
Yeah, judging by what's coming out of your proverbial mouth that 30lbs was 30lbs of pure shit. No wonder you had no trouble getting rid of that.
Channul ☹️
Such a good video today Cam. Thanks. Glad "John" is okay.
Cheers Rex
Great to hear John was OK. Congrats on two years. Love your content. Looking forward to more. Cheers!!
Someone better tell durianrider lol.
He's a malnourished 60kg climber type who's not known for his descending prowess! ;)
His tinder profile - Sugar, Carb, Rim
@@nuttynut722 He's always got a young hot dumb bird on his arm anyway!
Durianrider has made videos about the dangers of rim brake heat during high speed descending.
@@vaughanc4919 Hes over 70 kgs
just imagine if he didn't have a helmet on, someones godda come and clean up that mess
I used to work at a shop that sold Mavic wheels. Not the best picture, but I don’t see the yellow Mavic brake shoes that are specially designed for their wheels to not build excess heat. We saw many customers ruin carbon rims by using generic or alloy rim brake shoes instead of the shoe specified by the wheel manufacturer.
Congrats for 2 year YT anniversary Cam. Wish the best for you and your family, your video’s are frank, honest and always entertaining to watch. For the topic of this video there is so much to unpack, the failure and injury’s are really shocking I hope for a speedy recovery for ‘John’.
I think people who really understand the engineering and marketing demands of the product (medium depth full carbon clincher rim) understand that this accident would be the majority of the very few catastrophic failures. Lucky the pro’s and the well experienced run Tubular carbon rims ;)
Same goes for carbon bars too.....from past experience, unfortunately!
There's carbon, and there's carbon. For instance, the very light Syntace DuraFlite 25.4 carbon handlebar states a max. clamping torque of 8Nm. I've used it for a couple of years with absolutely no issues (never even needed to mind the clamping torque), even during loaded cycle tours (I weighed ca. 95kg at the time, plus ca. 20kg. for the luggage). That's not even to mention the Ortlieb handlebar bag adapter clamped to at least 5Nm on either side of the stem clamp. Plus ca. 2kg, occasionally loaded up to 4kg - of the handlebar bag. Never an issue!
Last year I resorted to purchasing a chinese "carbon" S-Works AeroFly rise drop bar copycat, goaded by idiotic pro- chinese junk propaganda so popular on TH-cam nowadays. I held the junk with both hands, applied some pressure to see whether it gives - yep, it would flex a lot. I used a torque wrench to make sure I don't over-tighten the clamp. Guess what: as I was about to reach 2Nms of clamping torque - I heard a snapping sound. Undid the clamp, checked the handlebar - sure enough: the junk ("ToSeek" - is that junk's "brand" name) had cracked. I broke the junk with My bare hands with very little effort, deposed of it, applied for a refund - never heard back from scum who sold that junk to Me. A waste of €65,-. The fucking parasites! And the the ultralefty cuckolds have the nerve to claim that the parasitic animal abusers of certain Asian sh*tholes have higher IQs than the Men and Women of the Race of Newton, Tesla, Bach and da Vinci. Give Me a f*cking break!
So, while one carbon handlebar has a rating of 8Nm and withstands considerable loads, the other one would snap like a twig at 2Nm of clamping force. Chinese junk.
@@LeoInterHyenaem What's up with the racism?
Moral: ride a mtb suspension and loam to catch you instead of asphalt... I feel really bad for the guy with a wheel failure though. No one expects their bike to explode.
glad "John" is ok and back riding. He is lucky to not have suffered any broken bones or any worse internal injuries.
Same happened to me this week. Spent the day in A&E on Sunday having road picked out of my face when my Mavic wheen collapsed at speed going down hill.
Great video Cam on the dangers of riding carbon clinchers. Recommend watching Peak Torque’s video on this exact thing as well th-cam.com/video/7O95Cd-aogk/w-d-xo.html
Nice one Mark, thanks for sharing. I'll take a look. Cam
I've done more than 25k miles on Zipp Firecrest wheels and yes mostly on rim brake bikes since 2011 and if anything fails on my bike I can assure you that it won't be my Zipp carbon wheels.
@@brakesforsnakes757 do you by chance live in Florida or Kansas? :)
Wanker wheels might look nice, but give me alloy wheels and rim brakes all day every day.....never had a problem with them.....
Even alloy rims fail albeit not as often, these freak accidents are rare
They don't even look nice. Metal always looks way better than plastic.
wow I'm glad John is ok. I would also say that it is a reminder to ride with at least one other. As Monday 1st July on my return home from a ride. I saw a Ambo up the road near a friends house. As I rode up to if my mate was alright I was greeted by a paramedic given CPR to a cyclist. Unfortunately this man had suffered a heart attack. Our lives are to short and we all have things to live for. Take care of yourselves.
Cam Wow 2 years. so pleased you have kept with this. I really enjoy the vlogs. Remember to take time out so you don't burn yourself out.
Cheers Steve. Had a week off last week, but definitely need to keep that in mind!
Excellent video Cam. Watched this because it was in my suggested videos list. Afterwards became a subscriber. Really well done.
Cheers mate and thanks for supporting the channel 👍
The degradation of the resin mentioned here is a very common failure mechanism in CFRP laminates. It is not only that the resin is getting "soft" - these are not meltable (thermoplastic) resins but fully cross-linked (thermosetting) plastics. After they come close or cross their glass transition temperature - usually around 180degC, the resin decomposes and cannot transfer load to the fibres. This is usually followed by a complete decomposition of the laminate. Add any impact load to such a material and you have a disaster happening in a split sec.
I will never run carbon wheels. Nor a carbon frame. Never liked the idea of a "plastic bike". Alu all the way for me.
That's a pretty long comment to tell us you are poor. If you wanted weight and performance, and weren't poor, you would say titanium.
wanting to keep the rider anonymous, i'll just call him john, john connolly...provided me with these pictures.
Appreciate your analysis along with LT's technical details.
I’ve done that exact same Bear Mountain ride. Dura Ace C50 wheels was the last time, descending at 38-42mph-it was about a 99F summer day. Wheels have aluminum brake track and the wheel is partially aluminum/carbon. But yes you have to be aware of heat. I don’t think I will be taking my full carbon wheels to Bear after seeing this.
Really insightful conversation with Raoul. Great job Cam.
Colleague from work had a similar incident with a set of Mavic wheels. He was riding along side his partner at the time, he stated he was going around 7 mph at the time he his front wheel hit a pot hole and completely shattered the wheel. So he ended up with 3 broken ribs, but his partner who was going much faster at the time collided with him and came out of it much worse. Multiple broken bones plus some head trauma. Both were wearing helmets.
i've been watching your videos for quite some time now, youre doing some great stuff. your down to earth, sincere and i always leave feeling a bit better and like i've learnt a thing or two. keep up the great work mate
Cheers Elliot 👍
Great video Cam. Glad John is ok what a horrendous crash. And happy anniversary!
Hey Cam, Happy 2nd Anniversary! Just started watching you content maybe three months ago and I really like it a lot. Looking forward to more Aussi cycling wisdom. Cheers
Cheers Christine, thanks for the support 👍
Congrats on the two years, Cam. Love what you do. If you’re ever in Byron, come for a pedal.... and a frothy.
Cheers mate,
Leroy.
Will do mate 👍
4:03, that's a pretty standard pothole for me, and the road looked nice on the other pictures. It's a shame Mavic isn't doing so PR stuff quickly. A friend of mine had a broken Enve wheel in a crash and it was replaced without cost in less than a week by their crash replacement program. Plus, Enve had the broken wheel sent back to them for an expertise by their engineers. That was actually awesome.
@Brainjock All I'm saying is that these potholes shouldn't destroy your wheels.
Anthony HT - do you really believe the manufacturer will say the deteriorated road surface in the photo is acceptable? Or warranty voided?
In the early 2000s I races on Mavic Reflex tubular alloy wheels for climbing and Mavic Cosmic tubular alloy wheels for aero wheels. Both Mavic sets where amazing. I raced on Zipp Carbon wheels, They were the only wheels that I trusted back then.
I know much has changed since then, But with so many different wheel manufacturers you have to look at the materials used, lay up and design .
Keep the rubber side down.
I'm not superstitious but that's nothing but a miracle. Thank goodness he's okay. (Still listening)
This was an interesting presentation on this terrible double failure of two Mavic carbon rims. I felt that the points made by Raoul were true. There are serious issues with the inability for the rim braking surface to dissipate heat quickly enough while descending to stop the rim from delaminating or becoming misshapen enough to cause the tire to blow off. But there are other issues at play here that are every bit as important in this situation that were never touched on. I am a professional wheel builder who has been building since 1973 so I have extensive experience. I also am building carbon wheels every day of the week so I have considerable experience in this area of wheel building. I have also consulted on carbon rims design as well as done testing for some of the biggest companies in the world producing carbon rims. Here are the areas that were never discussed. First off we should consider the quality control on the actual factory wheel build. In my experience a typical factory build is usually fraught with numerous problems that can lead to complete failure of a wheel, even one that is ridden under normal circumstances. The finished spoke tension of a carbon wheel is quite critical. If it leaves the factory either under or over tensioned this can lead to a complete collapse of the wheel. So knowing the tension the wheel was built at is critical. In this case one should have had that assessment done when they were purchased. I have seen brand new wheels that were so bad that they were totally dangerous to ride. The second thing to consider was spoke count. It was stated that the rider was 220 pounds which is a very heavy rider for such a low spoke count. I would say he was a good 50 pounds over weight for a spoke count like that. In my opinion rim and wheel companies promise that their products will hold up to weights that I feel are largely exaggerated.
Wheel design. The front wheel was spoked in a radial pattern and the rear wheel used straight pull spokes. Both lacing patterns exert extreme forces on a carbon rim and I don't recommend them, especially for heavier riders. Wheels built with these patterns typically offer very little lateral or radial compliance and can be a problem when entering pot holes or damaged parts of the road. The man who bought these wheels would have been better suited on an old school cross 3 lacing pattern with standard J-Bend spokes. Tire pressure. Was he running a tire pressure that was a little too high? I don't know. That could possibly lead to a blow out though he seems to think that the actual rear rim failed before the tire blew off. Who knows what happened first. So, as you can see, there is more here than your assessment mentioned. All of the things I mentioned combined could have very well been the cause of these failures and maybe no carbon delimitation took place at all. It's hard to know for certain. Whatever happened, it could have resulted in this mans death and therefore a total investigation from Mavic should take place.
Recently I converted a former trekking bike to a road bike, but without any carbon parts. I use 36 spoke aluminum wheels with XT hubs, and a aluminum cross country fork. The frame itself is a robust aluminum trekking frame. It's surely not a really competitive bike (12,8 kg), but it was relatively inexpensive compared to a real road bike and I don't have to be afraid something will break if i drive through a pothole. I don't do competitions, it's just for sport and fun.
Thanks for sharing on the thread Simon, Cam
Thanks for sharing this incident in the manner you did. I also appreciate the associated lessons.
Congratulations on the 2 years.
Raoul is the GURU of carbon.
I thought what Raoul said, I remember running a track bike down a mental decent in the Peak District, my tub started rolling off the rim with heat from applying the front brake melting the glue, luckily I ran out of hill!
Hill climb bike? Because even as a fixed gear fan I'd never casually ride fixed gear and tubeless in an area as hilly as the peaks.
@@franciss2529 I used to do CTC rides on a 72" fixed gear, it often got a bit hairy!
Cam, brother I love your content and I really enjoy all of your videos, advice and I appreciate the time you take and put into your video content. Keep it up mate👊🏻
Two years already, sure enjoy your channel Cam! ...I run HED Jet Black 5's on my Fuji SL One.3. Alloy wheels with a carbon faring, and the brake tracks have a CNC machined groves in them. A poor man's disc brakes, sort of 😜. They work very well. Of my 5 wheelsets I use for my SL One.3 and a Specialized Tarmac SL4, four are alloy, one carbon fiber, and I rarely ever use the 35mm carbon fiber wheels. Here in Texas the bike shops are super busy, a odd but good thing about this pandemic. One of my cycling friends can't find a shop that can get him in to bleed his disc brakes for 3 weeks....So, I agree with you, I like rim brakes. Although, if I ever do get a new bike, I'm sure I will go disc brakes, no plans for that anytime soon, the bikes I have now are great, well at least to me they are!
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Your kiddo's are cute, reminds me of my daughter and step-daughter when they were young. Enjoy it Brother, they grow up very fast, take care!
Off-topic but at 3:38, when the strava map is shown, i couldn't hold back a chuckle when i saw a 394 m cliff tagged as "Bear Mountain".
Thanks for sharing this tragic story. Hopefully John will recover 100%.
This goes to show that discs are the way going forward. Also, they provide much more predictable/consistent braking.
I remember doing the Bear Mt. course both with with Kissena (or was it CRCA I forget) and collegiate West Point races. That pretty rough place to ride. A lot choppy road surfaces and broken glass. One funny anecdote about the West Point race is all the course marshals where cadets in full battle uniform with their M-16. Pace cars and following wheels cars where Humvee. Never seen drivers behaving so well.
Great video! You're doing an amazing job getting quality content out there!
Cheers Heasain
I had a less than one year old Zipp 303 NSW Disc brake wheel catastrophically fail while I was inflating a new tubeless tire. I was super glad that it didn't happen while I was riding. I returned the wheel under warranty via the dealer and Zipp rebuilt the hub into a new wheel at no cost.
Wow Lynda, that is very interesting to hear, and so glad to hear that is didn't happen while riding! As always, thanks for your further support! Cam
If you are light, don’t do long descents, and don’t ride in hot (or rainy) weather, carbon rim brake wheels can be fine. Also, tubulars are more structurally sound than clinchers. Also, note that high temp resins for rim wheels are more brittle than lower-temp disc wheels.
All that said, I recently bought a disc road bike as I ride in variable and challenging conditions. That extra 300g or so is well worth it for safety’s sake.
People... use the right tool for the job! Rim brakes are fine in many cases, but not for all situations.
Glad to hear that “John” is okay. Stay smart. Stay safe!
Just use disc brakes then you don't need to consider what weather it is, how light you are and how long a descent is, however there are still too many that think looks and weight are more important than safety
If you want to be safe on a bicycle stick with titanium , steel or aluminum and aluminum wheels and if they make titanium wheel get that. I’m not sure if I’m correct but think that carbon fiber bicycles have a “shelf life” because of the degradation of the resin used to hold the fibers together.