Rugby League is more concentrated which can boost the numbers. Rugby Union support is much more spread out amongst many local and international teams. It’s gotta be Rugby Union.
Was looking for this comment. Where they play league it's massive but the fact hardly anyone plays it has to say it all. I'm scottish and I've never met a scottish league fan
Irish guy in Oz here. Agree with this comment. NRL is Australia's flagship rugby comp. But it's Australia only. NZ & North of England play league, but there's no comparison to Union globally.
I love both codes. Hence my name. I have a season seat for Rugby Football Club Los Angeles in MLR. I also do commentary for Rugby League here. It’s called Pacific Coast Rugby League. I watch both codes religiously. I have friends on both sides of the aisle who hate each other’s games. Fair enough. I want to watch a game with constant action. You can love both.
South Africa is the best at Rugby. No doubt. They play a style which is polar opposite of what Rugby League is. The Saffas props are the best in the world. They can slowly grind you to pieces with 5 minutes left in the game. They’ll try to get a penalty off the scrum for Pollard to seal the deal. They pride themselves on their scrum. And rightfully so. The first half of the Rugby World Cup bored me to death. The 2nd half was phenomenal. There are people in places like Wigan and St. Helens, UK who would think the same about Union. There are way more laws or chances for the whistle to blow in the 15 man code. I just hope they can figure out a way to limit the scrums. Too many and it slows down the game for me. MLR has it where after the 2nd reset scrum the team can do a quick tap which I think is genius.
@davidmclean-on4dj Yes, there are, but only amateur it's the same with American football , Baseball & Aussie rules there are teams but they tend to be nomadic from season to season I have looked in to them all in the past. I am Scottish myself I follow Glasgow Warriors & Scotland myself. I watch The N.R.L. they have an absolutely fantastic streaming service N.R.L Watch it's very much value for money Melbourne Storm are my team of choice.
@@davidmclean-on4djpretty sure the Scottish national RL team is mostly made up of NRL or lower tier players (NSW Cup etc) that have Scottish heritage. That’s how most of the teams in the Rugby League World Cup seem to be formed.
The fact that the Warriors sold out Fmg stadium within days yet they had to give tickets away for the kiwis game a few months later in the same stadium speaks volumes to the difference between the domestic game and international game.
What I don’t understand is why so many people are trying to turn Union into league - Union is far more popular and gets a much bigger viewers ship yet certain pundits and administrators think Union needs to be like league. If you want to speed up the game get rid of TMO and put power back into hands of ref and linesman
Your last sentence regarding TMO's is the entire existence of the argument to begin with... that has always been the premise - rules, rule officiating, and the dead time between live ball. Those are all Union specific issues that can't be unseen once you compare it side by side to League, which many fans in Australasia end up doing, seeing as many of the games are played in similar timeframes. How the narrative gets lost in translation so often, is confusing for me.
To me, rugby league's flagship product is basically the NRL. And yes, I also think there is no union club's championship that can match it economically as a product. But union end (and historic) product is International rugby and it's of an all another scale.
record rugby union crowd ? 2000 The largest crowd for a rugby union match was the 109,874 who watched New Zealand win 39-35 at Sydney's Stadium Australia.
I watch NRL, SR, URC, Top14, super league, and Gallagher prem, but no longer follow each comp intricately. I look up the games that interest me and watch those. Eg, in the last week I've watched 2 urc, 1 gp, 2 nrl, 2 SR, and 3 top 14 matches (yes i need a life, but i don't watch much else). I don't really give a care about competitions until the finals. Until then, I'm just picking matches to entertain. There'll always be space for NRL as it's entertaining. I can't say the same for super rugby because atm, there's only one or two quality games a weekend if we're lucky
NRL is only 1 league competition so it’s all Rugby League fans really have. Super Rugby, Top14, URC, Japanese league and most of all the European champions cup which is huge. Union is definitely the bigger sport, more players, more fans and it’s still one of the fastest growing sports globally while League is littlest nonexistent in Wales my son plays Union l, said he can’t get into league because you can’t fight for the ball, it’s an odd game but each to their own. Union is by far a bigger sport globally
Unions a far bigger sport, but there is another professional rugby league competition which is super league in england which has similar numbers in terms of attendance to the premiership
Irish Hurling! Now you're talking. Great fan base. 20 over cricket. Now that's fun to watch. I'm with Gazza. Both different but becoming less so. Both great to watch. Probably will meld one day.
Did you have a look at the growth in attendances. My understanding is that the NRL is a much older competition and any of the rugby union comps bar international matches. Also, look at the Champions cup over 16000 average atendance last year. Its been growing at about 2000 a year since crowds were allowed back post covid.
The NRL has to be the most entertaining and impressive domestic league in the world in my opinion. Super League also deserves a lot of credit for how steady and reliable it has been. Most of the sides have been playing each other for well over 100 years. Bradford Bulls went bust about 20 years ago but while there are only 10 teams in the English Premiership and none in a position to be promoted, Super League has 11 English sides with promotion still in place (for now at least). If I were a superstar Rugby player with the ability to write my own ticket and play wherever I wanted, I'd want to be playing in the NRL with a shortened season to play in the Six Nations and Union World Cup.
Woah woah woah, this makes too much sense to be posted on a TH-cam channel. I couldn’t agree with you more, if I was good enough i’d pull a Sonny Bill Williams. 2 year cycles for world cups and lions tours, then back to the NRL.
Can ppl pls speculate on what Rugby Union would be like today both domestically & globally in terms of attendance, revenues/resources, stature/popularity, skill level & any other factors you can think of if it had never split into the 2 codes way back then?! Also, how does the European Champions Cup fka Heineken Cup compare to the NRL?
You can also speculate on if League wasn't banned by the Vichy government in France during WW2, when it was by far bigger than Union, what effect would that have had on Union?
The Top 14 is the Rugby Union Turnement that is closest to The N.R.L. In terms of Champions Cup French clubs dont tend to take it seriously until it gets to the knockout rounds they priorities The Top 14 always.
I’m South African so we only know union, but I heard it from an Aussie who played in the NRL who told me that union was for the rich elitists. If you came from a blue collar family background he said it was almost frowned upon to play union rugby as opposed to league or Aussie rules. Pretty interesting
Rugby did much better at spreading the game. Being amatuer for so much longer benefitted it in that regard. League being professional meant they solely focused on making money and concentrating on their current product rather than helping wlthe worldwide game to grow.
@@dane1056 So, you're happy to post a comment filled with errors and misinformation but you can't deal with a reply. Why not stick to you own lane and not comment on topics you clearly have no intelligence of.
@@fasterout777 having grown up playing both and being part of both scenes means I've got an opinion. Claiming misinformation with no proof suggests your a troll with nothing to add but nonsense. Keep trolling numb nuts. It's obviously all you have in life
@@fasterout777 you make the statement but don't explain what it is you think is false and full of errors. Seems more you're just talking out your backside.
Another thing to mention about club game is that rugby union has 4 big club comps in prem,URC,Top 14 and super rugby while rugby league only has NRL and super league (which isn’t as big as the prem in England). Rugby union also has a continental comp in the champions cup. Rugby league does have the world club challenge though which is very good and I think they should do this in union. Winner of champions cup vs winner of super rugby to be crowned best In the world. Feel the club World Cup will try and do this not sure how well though
As a union fan from Portugal. The most annoying type of union fan is definitely the one who jokes about how small league is, as if union by itself is not a small sport as well. Plus, the vast majority of union fans are very casual, only watching the international tests. A sport can't sustain itself with that and league has the NRL, which is bigger than all of the union club competitions combined
Are you ‘avin a larf? Combine all the union club competitions together and it dwarfs the NRL, there are only 17 clubs, so even if it is well attended, that’s tiny compared to the global union club attendance.
@@alunjprice their TV deal is worth more than all of the major union comps combined. That's what I meant. Also, you could combine the support of the Welsh URC teams and it wouldn't match the support a team like the Broncos get
@@subbie5498 the Welsh teams have never had good crowds, just look at the Ospreys when they had a crazy squad. People just aren't interested in club rugby, and thats where the focus should be
I'd say the NRL is the premier rugby competition in the world. Whether you like union or league or both, the NRL (and State of Origin) exhibits the sport of rugby at its absolute finest, supported by massive TV air time with talk shows and fan entertainment.
@@andjammor That's true. League's focus is on entertainment and crafting a sport which is easy to understand. Union is more for the purist and lovers of international matches, which it does really well. NRL is a club competition.
Hhahahah you’re off your head, the state of origin 2023 was one of the most viewed with only 3.37 million, France rugby World Cup 2023 alone had over 800 million world wide, thats more viewership combined than state of origin games for the last 10 years lol🤣 stop the cap
I thought URC had better attendance. That number may be low because of small club stadiums in Wales, Ireland and Scotland. I'm seeing attendance of 20k + this season at the higher capacity stadiums.
A lot of the stadiums are very small due to lack of interest in club rugby. Scotstoun and Edinburgh are only 5000-7000. Italian stadiums are both about the same as Scotland. Only Leinster, Munster and Ulster really come close to selling out their larger stadiums in the NH. Welsh teams all play in stadiums too big for average club games. And despite the fact SA bring huge numbers of fans they are still usually playing in stadiums half full. Average URC crowd is about 10000 which is outstanding considering 7 of the 16 teams can play in stadiums with a capacity less than that.
League in Australia is eating at Union. AFL is spread across Australia where NRL is only the eastern seaboard and Auckland for the Warriors. AFL has higher crowd attendance but NRL had a bigger TV audience. Rugby league is the most watched sport in Australia.
@@LomuHabana Everyone is heading towards steaming league as well as on TV. AFL pointing out TV numbers have closed to almost level this season. But steaming is NRL well ahead again and the biggest growth market in media. AFL better to see live
@@Wayne.J what the hell has steaming to do with the NRL? You mean streaming? Why does the AFL make more tv/streaming money then? AFL better to watch on tv. Not sure about live.
So lets add some balanced and salient facts for the non-league subscribers. 1. There are 17 NRL franchise clubs INCLUDING the New Zealand Warriors (so not really JUST Australia) 2. Each NRL club has 30 first grade contracted players (thats 510 players) 3. 54% of all contracted players are of Polynesian/ Maori decent 4. Each franchise exists in a salary cap of approx $11 million per annum for all 30 contracted players 5. Minimum salary for contracted players is $200,000 6. Players also earn additional income through third-party and sponsorships which increase earning substantially 7. Each franchise also operates a "pathway" of development with teams in lower age brackets in 3 additional grades all feeding into the NRL side. 8. The NRL also funds a professional NRLW competition for females which has just announced 2 additional teams. 9. The NSWRL, QRL and ARL operate the "provicial" and international fixtures and selected players earn significant additional representative income. 10. NZRL also have a domestic 8 team competition and England plays the Superleague with teams mostly from the North of England but also one from France. 11. The NRL earns over $20 million per round in gaming commissions. 12. The NRL season is a 24 round regualr season with an additional 4 weeks post seaon finals Why explain this, well as a fan of both codes its importants to clearly identify that the NRL is actually really a regional sport in Australi, NZ and the South Pacific with the NRL likely to announce a second franchise in NZ very soon which will pave the way for more rugby union talent to transition to league simply because of money. Union will always be the internal game and RWC will always dominate every 4 years but league in this REGION simply dominates and iwith the NRL seriously evaluating the acquisition of the English Superleague along with a significant investment in North American promotion diverging futures of these two codes couldn't be more stark.
Just to the last bit you said. Even if NRL buys the Super league, I can’t imagine many players will be choosing Wigan or Hull over Sydney or Melbourne. So won’t it just end up the same as it already is? The best talent in Australia growing that league, with the English/European NRL falling behind to union.
I like both but prefer Union. I agree, club wise NRL wins in that category due to a condensed audience and lack of international calendar games. Union is small comparatively in club but big in international due to audiences being more spread out amongst clubs then brought together for international. So if we are talking about which sport is bigger, for me its Union. Money wise, of course NRL has it, they only have to focus mainly on the comp and not so much on international, whereas Union money is spread out to grow (NZ for example) provincial, then the next level of SR and then national team for calendar games. Well thats just my 2cents but i follow both codes, one more than the other.
NASCAR & F1 hare both Snoz marathons, if you sleeped through both now a day's, you would miss absolutely nothing. I tried to get back in to F1 & when Red Bull are winning every single race, buying a country mile it starts to get a bit pointless watching it a bit like Super Rugby when it comes to Crusaders costing it most seasons. And in terms of N.R.L. apparently, you did not watch the Storm V Broncos game today it had more twists & and turns than any F1 yrack will never have.
@@alanfox691Not knocking league. It's a pity the game is split. The Aussies bring so much to their sport. Growing up in Ireland had no exposure to league but believe me I've tried to watch it. Lived in Brisbane in mid 90s when Broncos were kings. Just couldn't hold my attention. Fell in love with test cricket though. Actually there's another analogy. Union = Test Cricket, League = T20
The Australian winter sports coverage is the most competitive of any country in the world (or at least it was for a long time). You have AFL, NRL, SR, A-league as the major sports but Australia in general watches a crazily large amount of sport from surf living saving to triathlon to horse racing. It is one of the reasons why super rugby is struggling. It is actually incredible that the rebels lasted as long as they did independently in Melbourne which is the AFL heart land and the storm which has a huge following.
Rugby league doesn't have as many rules. Being an AFL fan. I find Rugby Union stop start stop start it doesn't flow like AFL or Soccer. Living In Melbourne AFL completely dominates the football codes. Having said that, Rugby League is easier to watch. For an AFL fan. I just wish rugby players could kick properly Aussie rule players can kick further higher on the run with both feet and run twice as far. Rugby is ok if you like stop start games
Ever since melbourne joined the NRL, they've brought in the AFL influence of kicks and aerial contests. I truly think both sports influence each other. Even cricket has an influence in league to with the off the slips catches that you'd see guys like munster and Hughes do to defuse an offensive grubber.
Just cant get into League, yeah the pace of it can be entartaining but it just feels like a much more dumbed down version of the sport and more of an individuals game than a team game
This! Union has always been more interesting to me, both playing and watching. And since watching decent analysis videos like Squidge, it's only enhanced Union as a way more interesting game. Aside from the State of Origin, I can't watch League any more.
I'm a rugby fan but I gotta say the NRL final is mental, it has the same feel in Sydney as the Rugby world cup in NZ, or the Football World cup final in Europe. Since the clubs rule, no one cares about growing it outside Oz . Its also a higher skill level than club rugby. Internationals ... well thats a different thing
When are the French Rugby Union going to return all the money and assets they stole from League in WWII. The French Rugby Union will always have the dark stain of collaboration until they rectify this.
Union, obviously. Not a knock against league, I love the NRL, but you could easily sell out the union world cup final 10x over. You can't say the same for league.
League is like watching Groundhog Day. Same thing over and over. Run into contact and repeat. There’s no variety and doesn’t require the multiple skills or player types like Union. It’s like comparing pitch and putt to golf
This is a fair point but watching scrums collapse over and over and mauls or pick and go's grind their way joylessly to the line or another penalty is like Groundhog Day too.
That’s like saying that snooker is like watching Groundhog Day. Same thing over and over. Pot red balls in a way that sets you up for a colour. There’s no variety and it doesn’t require the multiple skills that are involved in bar billiards. A principle of good game design is that a game should be easy to learn yet difficult to master. Rugby Union violates that. More variety is not a good thing
I'm a Saffa and love rugby union, have watched almost every Bok game they have played in South Africa in the last three years, as well as the quarters to the final in the world cup. I live in Bloem so watch a couple of Cheetahs games a year, but they are not in the URC so there aren't that many games to watch. I barely knew what league was 2 years ago, and don't really care about it beyond the impact it currently has on union which I feel is quite shit. Nz and Aus people in union are pushing union to be "faster" because they think that is why league is more popular in those regions. I think if this is just left unchecked it will probably be the death of rugby union as the scrums, line-outs and kicking is depowered and eventually made obselete, the game won't be for all shapes and sizes anymore, this will reduce space and missmatches which in turn will make it necesarry to reduce the number of players on the field. I think they should have a law freeze in union for at least three years, except for real safety issues, and get a proper gauge of where the game is heading. Unless you follow it avidly the rules change too much to know whats going and that deters new fans.
The speed of the game when we talk about League, is about the speed of officiating decisions, as well as the minimization of dead time between sets. The speed of the game you are referring to, while partially true, from a League perspective, is more focused on keeping the officiating as simple as possible, which in turn will inevitably speed the general game up as a consequence. You don't need to hold a game up for ransom, watching 20 replays of an incident like what used to be accustomed to in Union. League has the bunker, a concept Union has only just started to implement. There are other ways in which the game is faster paced too. What the NRL realized in the modern era, is that they're in the entertainment business, not the sport business. Watch and observe their moves over the last two decades, and you will see they have taken many clear notes from the NFL & NBA in particular, especially as it pertains to fan engagement & off-field presence. They have the official NRL fantasy league. They also have a retirement ceremony for players during Grand Final day. They have an MVP race that everyone can see week-to-week, culminating in a huge TV audience watching for the results live on air during Grand Final week. In fact, they make every effort possible to make Grand Final week as grandiose as can be. Finally, they have huge TH-cam viewership numbers that normally dwarf many Union games. While many may, and will say, all that stuff is nonsense, the end product still equates to more money, and more loyalty from their fan base for said side shows. They look to cater to any potential fan need as possible.. that is why League is big in Australasia. It's not because the sport is "faster..." They have learnt how to monetize everything they can.
I just want to clarify many kiwis thoughts, as they're often misrepresented. I and many ppl I know want rugby union to be as fast as it was. That is, get rid of the stoppages and time management that have been introduced to the game in the last 15 years. Fwiw, most kiwi rugby players actually love scrums, mauls, forward grunt play. I was a prop, my brother was a prop. Our dad was a hooker. We just want the game to flow
Both union world cup finals were a debacle and it seems that the governing body recognize this. 32/80 minutes of actual rugby being played is an embarrassment and is indefensible.
@@SplatWun I agree with this 100% I think bigger focus needs to be put in the entertainment aspect and the sport itself should be left alone for a bit just to settle. Half the recent rule changes are to fix something another rule change caused, it's impossible to get the entertainment aspect right while the sport is this unstable. I think union's biggest issues are instability and inconsitency, they need to get the game stable, which will in turn simplify and speed up officiating and make it more consistent. After that they can worry about ball in play time and flow of the game and all the rest of the nice to haves
NRL is easily the premier footy in both codes, unreal to watch and state of origin is pure next level. But the all blacks and the union WC are bloody class and a great spectacle every 4 years too
I would suppose if you were to factor in the Champions Cup in Europe it might swing attendance numbers a little, but comparing the domestic competitions a more of a level playing field.
I get your point that NRL is bigger at club level than in rugby. But the opposite at nation level. I would suggest the reason the NRL is bigger at club is because, the NRL, actively sub-press the internation game, as they know they would be in trouble...as Aust would win 99% of games. Therefore are you comparing apples with apples???
400 millons aud is 260 millons USD, if you have around 100 millons per european competition (eng + france + urc ) you are talking about 300 millones euros wich is way more than 260 millons USD
Kalyn Ponga picked Australia because he wanted to play for Queensland. Which seems wild to anyone that doesn’t know about Rugby League. That says it all about international comps in league. Playing for a state in Australia vs other Australians is the highest level of rugby league.
Rugby is played in more leagues (organised regional comps) than League has professional clubs and on more continents (a given). More ex-players who have extracted the benefits and apply it usefully in their daily life. We have less people in jail, or dealing with mental issues. Rugby League is entertainment for the WW1 Officer mentality. _"Off you go chaps, walk in a straight line towards those machine guns. I'll stay here to fill my ink cartridge and keep the tea warm. Best of British and all that. Ever so nice to have met you. Been absolutely lovely whatever your name was."_ Rugby Union is for those who need to have very good reasons to expect the enemy will 'cease and desist' for their benefit.
I watch both and enjoy both. They are appealing to me in different ways. Union is appealing in the different aspects of line outs scrums etc more contests in different facets of the play whereas I like the continuous flow and pace in leage. I do think Union could take a few more learnings from the league to make the game a bit more exciting. For one I find in league the calls and TMO decisions tend to be quicker. The scrums in union need to be reffed better and my suggestion would be to get a scrum ref on and start recruiting ex front rowers to ref this part. They would know best who is up to no good in the scrums 😅 and IRB needs to stop with all the rule changes they are slowly ruining the game! anyways love your content and always enjoy the videos!
rugby League is carried by the nrl and a little by the super League when we look in the rest of the world it is regression, the last European championship has been cancelled. The next World Cup will bring together only 10 nations when in rugby union it will play at 24 nations, in truth it’s just that in some nations there are difficulties in Australia the rebels should disappear at the end of the season and their national team is extremely weak, in England the clubs are over indebted and in Wales they have so much trouble that I can’t even list them all
@@joaofigueiras1106 Chill some of us have problems with spelling & grammar that is not fault of our own it's how we where born. I personally have Homocystinuria something I doubt you personally have the first clue about so stop the bloody high & mighty act get a flaming grip. No one made you the the judge of humanity so raign it in or bolt. This is about Rugby Union not bloody spelling & grammar. Christ you should come to Scotland the S.N.P. would snap you up as qick as you could blink they love people like you it could be a life long job for you.
Union clubs are in debt sure, doesn’t mean the support is struggling. They, like ALL uk businesses, are really struggling with spiralling costs. And then they’re also trying to stay competitive with France and if you make the wrong decisions with loans, bad liquidity and equity etc, they’ll go under. Or your millionaire/billionaire owner don’t want the losses anymore. But it’s not just a rugby thing. Most championship football clubs, so clubs in the league below the premier league, also make a loss and football is massive here
@@jakeclough8090 except that the English rugby clubs in cumulative have more than 340 million pound debts it’s just huge if the british government forces them to repay, all the clubs will go bankrupt, also the leaders of the rfu kill the championship by preventing clubs from going up for bogus reasons and the rfu is the richest union in the world in terms of liquidity and it is also the 2nd in terms of registered players if the premiership collapses it is the end of rugby in England
I'm like your dad, I enjoy both codes and I cant understand ppl who say they love one and hate the other. They are so similar, enjoy them both ! Up the Wahs and up the ABs
It's not really a straightforward comparison to make. In this comparison, there are fair few variables at play. The saying "There are lies, dammed lies, and then there are statistics" comes to mind. League primarily concentrated over 2 competitions Union split over 5 "big" leagues and one big competition in the champions Cup. Do you then compare each competition individually or as united fronts? In European countries, Union is absolutely dwarfed by football again. Union is not even the second most popular sport in most countries. Do we then say in that context, union is more appealing since it has compete for sponsors, viewership, and participants with a behemoth such as football? The NRL, on the other hand, does compete with other sports, but does the two environments compare? Therefore, what are the comparable market shares of each code within their operating environment then? These are just 2 factors I quickly thought of. Ultimately , to fully compare, it would involve a fairly complex statistical analysis with a lot more variables than we can think of. In the end, rugby union is doing well and growing (with the exception of Aus). League, I don't know, but the NRL on its own is already very impressive. Who cares then! With the exception of a few countries, as a whole, both codes are doing well!
I sure that the arrival of the messiah (Joseph Suaalii) to the Wallabies will answer all the issues in Australian Rugby, hell, RA has mortgaged the farm to do it, Seriously, what an epic waste of money that deal is given he;ll run straight back to the NRL when the RA money dries up.
year 2000 The largest crowd for a rugby union match was the 109,874 who watched New Zealand win 39-35 at Sydney's Stadium Australia. NRL in Australia gets more to club games but union in Australia gets more people to an international than league. I'm sick of NRL poaching good union players in Oz.
I think the club leagues aren’t comparable because certainly in the UK, we have the football, which restricts numbers for rugby but in the Pacific you don’t have that
Huh? You think that leage or Union operate in a vacuum of no competition in the Pacific? Heard of AFL? Do you not think that Fottball isnt also growing in the Pacific? FFS, given how bad the Wallabies are now...Australia's "national team" is probobly the Soccoroos!
@@fasterout777 no the cricket team is our national team. Honestly not trying to be racist,( I love the fact that Australia is so multi-cultural). But just by looking at the last names of the cricket team players compared to the soccer team shows which sport has the national team.
League is popular on one continent. And has one big competition in Australia. Union has big competition in every other continent. How are the other league competitions doing? Non existing. In other countries this isn’t even a question no one cares about league other than Aus and NZ.
So you're just ignoring England, France and most other European countries, USA, Canade, South America and the Pacific Islands that have Rugby League competitions.
I would say league better club comp but union streets ahead internationally and in terms of club union is closer to league then league is to union internationally. Rugby World Cup trumps the nrl in terms of numbers ( viewers profit) and it’s not even close
Nice video. I must say I've never understood the "Bigger game" argument. In the UK, rugby is nowhere near football (soccer). It's not only the most popular sport it's also the second and joint third most popular as Championship and League one teams get crowds that Rugby Union or Rugby League teams (or even Cricket teams) would die for. It was heart-breaking as a rugby fan, watching the 20,000+ seater Madejsk stadium in Reading sold out or virtually full for "Tier Two" and "Tier Three" football matches but less than a 20% full for "Tier One" London Irish Rugby Union games (and I was one of only 2000 people to see an international Rugby League game there 20 years ago!). Yes League isn't played as widely as Union but again you are arguing over the crumbs as neither is anywhere in comparison with football which is arguably the one true global team sport and rugby union and league doesn't even come in the top 10. I love both sports but I find the argument about which is bigger baffling as neither is as big as football or cricket or baseball or basketball etc etc. I tend to watch more NRL than Super Rugby just because it's easier to access in the UK and the Union competition has definitely suffered from the loss of the SA teams. But I'd never miss a Six Nations game nor the State of Origin so I'm not really bothered how many other people are watching 🙂
I’m only a new rugby code fan being a Melbournian. I’m an AFL fan, AFL smashes attendance of most sports. But has low/no take up overseas. I like all 3, league is a club game and state of origin is the epitomy of the sport internationally. Whereas union is awesome internationally, club comp sucks. especially in Melbourne where I didn’t know the rebels existed til recently. I hate any sport comparison and love most
No comparison in my mind, league is just shallow with guys running into each other. Union is strategic, the scrum, line out and breakdown are all super interesting.
Club Rugby Union is far better to watch than the penalty laden Rugby Union Test matches. Rugby Union is the only professional sport that gets less entertaining the higher the grade.
This is why soccer is king, it is one game everywhere in the world. We have Union, League & then there's American Grid Iron. We are happy in our small compartments but will never be able to compete in size. Worse is a sport like Karate. Full contact v sports karate don't talk at all. There are many different styles and codes, each with their own rules. It's such a massive sport, with representation in many more countries than rugby but they are not even an Olympic sport because of all the splits and variations.
Yeah Saints and Tigers seem to have great fanbases in the Prem. The Broncos in the NRL are at something like 39k. Lowest team this year even had 11k. Much better than Super Rugby - but the AFL in Australia would be even higher
I would say overall Union is the bigger sport globally due to having a much larger international game BUT the NRL is bigger than any club Union competition.
I’d say the Top 14 probably has the NRL’s number for the bigger domestic competition. Fan numbers and atmosphere seem much better in the Top 14, even more so when you consider Pro D2 is much much more popular than NSW and QLD Cup.
@@thewielloyd988 It;s impossible to emphasise just how ridiculous this statement is. NRL franchises (all 17 of them) operate 4 grades, have 30 contracted players and spend a collective $200 million a years on first grade player contracts under the salary cap
You’re right, NRL is a giant compared to any rugby comp in the world - that’s even being hamstrung with so many Sydney teams. If they go ahead and buy the English Super League then look out Union.
Even if NRL bought the Super league, can’t imagine many players will be choosing Hull over Sydney. Id imagine it would be the same as it is now. I’m pretty positive that if Australia invested in a club union competition similar to the NRL that it would immediately start as one of the most desirable leagues to play in. The same reason that lots of players want to go play in the South of France, The lifestyle. I feel international union has crippled club rugby. All the nonsense about needing to stay in your country to play for your country. Players should be allowed to go where they want with out having test caps used as blackmail to stay.
@@struandickson9082 they tried a national comp and it failed. Super Rugby has had teams in Sydney, Brisbane, Canberra, Melbourne and Perth… yet it’s now pretty much done. The only time it did well was during the Super League War back in the 90s when Rugby League was on its knees. There’s no way back for Union because there’s simply no real supporter base - the few that exist just haven’t joined the others that converted to Swans season ticket holders.
@@daveb3987 I totally get what your saying. Though if the NRL was on its knees then there is no reason union can’t make a reasonable comeback? When I lived in Brisbane and the Gold Coast I was always shocked by how big the local clubs were and the really high level of schoolboy union. So there must some fan base of the sport that is just very disenfranchised from their pro clubs. When there was only ACT, NSW and QLD taking the really elite talent in Aus thrived internationally, and because the clubs were winning fans attended games. Essentially for a decade we’ve know the final of super rugby would be the crusader vs *insert any kiwi team. And that has really hurt Australian Rugby
@@struandickson9082 the NRL was only on its knees in the 1990s because of Super League. That won’t happen again in living memory. It’s taken this long for the game to get back to where is was in 1994 - this time it’s not retreating. Meanwhile, the Warriors have just officially sold old every single home game this year. Extraordinary, and certainly highlights the chances of a 2nd NZ team in Christchurch.
@@daveb3987 Okay, but the All blacks are still the pinnacle of rugby for most Kiwi kids. Let’s go back to your original comment now, why should union be worried if the NRL bought super league? Super league is probably the last thought of most people in the Northern hemispheres mind. Players aren’t going to change the way they go about choosing clubs. Cause like I said nobody in their right mind is choosing Hull over Sydney
It's a shame that the ARU is so focused on turning the game into league (to compete with the NRL), that the rest of us have to deal with the consequences in terms of rule changes and marketing.
Don't let the ARU win they are full of incompetents running Rugby Union. Union's dead in Australia so just ignore them and play your own dull and boring version of the game you love.
What about the Japan Rugby League competition, some pretty big money being poured into that. Surprising Rugby 7s has never been able to become a bigger sport.
Rugby league is a struggling sport internationally. If youre a rugby league player you wouldnt get much chance of playing club rugby abroad except for Australia where as in Union you will have the chance to play rugby club level in Europe, USA, Japan, NZ, SA and Australia. Huge difference.
Incorrect you can play in England and France. Let's face it no Professional Rugby Union player would play anywhere else but these countries apart from Japan anyway.
"Super" Rugby is a rubbish franchise competition. That doesn't help in Australia. Everywhere else, Rugby Union is bigger. You can't really use social media followers to judge Rugby popularity. Most People who like Rugby Union don't tend to be the kind of people who sit on social media all day. They tend to have lives.
Can’t compare the NRL against the union club comps individually, you need to think about all of them in aggregate. NRL + the English league comp together versus all the union comps together
Rugby League is more concentrated which can boost the numbers.
Rugby Union support is much more spread out amongst many local and international teams.
It’s gotta be Rugby Union.
Was looking for this comment. Where they play league it's massive but the fact hardly anyone plays it has to say it all. I'm scottish and I've never met a scottish league fan
Irish guy in Oz here. Agree with this comment. NRL is Australia's flagship rugby comp. But it's Australia only. NZ & North of England play league, but there's no comparison to Union globally.
Western Australia. NEW. TIMES of. NRL
I love both codes. Hence my name. I have a season seat for Rugby Football Club Los Angeles in MLR. I also do commentary for Rugby League here. It’s called Pacific Coast Rugby League. I watch both codes religiously. I have friends on both sides of the aisle who hate each other’s games. Fair enough. I want to watch a game with constant action. You can love both.
I agree - you can love both ... From an Aussie 👌
As do I on both codes
WA. NRL
In South Africa we dont even know what League is
In Scotland, I know we have a national rl team. I'm not sure if there are any clubs here.
South Africa is the best at Rugby. No doubt. They play a style which is polar opposite of what Rugby League is. The Saffas props are the best in the world. They can slowly grind you to pieces with 5 minutes left in the game. They’ll try to get a penalty off the scrum for Pollard to seal the deal. They pride themselves on their scrum. And rightfully so. The first half of the Rugby World Cup bored me to death. The 2nd half was phenomenal. There are people in places like Wigan and St. Helens, UK who would think the same about Union. There are way more laws or chances for the whistle to blow in the 15 man code. I just hope they can figure out a way to limit the scrums. Too many and it slows down the game for me. MLR has it where after the 2nd reset scrum the team can do a quick tap which I think is genius.
@davidmclean-on4dj
Yes, there are, but only amateur it's the same with
American football , Baseball & Aussie rules there are teams but they tend to be nomadic from season to season I have looked in to them all in the past.
I am Scottish myself
I follow Glasgow Warriors
& Scotland myself.
I watch The N.R.L. they have an absolutely fantastic streaming service N.R.L Watch
it's very much value for money Melbourne Storm are my team of choice.
Didnt tney make league illagal in SA ? Similar to what happened in France.
@@davidmclean-on4djpretty sure the Scottish national RL team is mostly made up of NRL or lower tier players (NSW Cup etc) that have Scottish heritage. That’s how most of the teams in the Rugby League World Cup seem to be formed.
The fact that the Warriors sold out Fmg stadium within days yet they had to give tickets away for the kiwis game a few months later in the same stadium speaks volumes to the difference between the domestic game and international game.
What I don’t understand is why so many people are trying to turn Union into league - Union is far more popular and gets a much bigger viewers ship yet certain pundits and administrators think Union needs to be like league. If you want to speed up the game get rid of TMO and put power back into hands of ref and linesman
Your last sentence regarding TMO's is the entire existence of the argument to begin with... that has always been the premise - rules, rule officiating, and the dead time between live ball. Those are all Union specific issues that can't be unseen once you compare it side by side to League, which many fans in Australasia end up doing, seeing as many of the games are played in similar timeframes. How the narrative gets lost in translation so often, is confusing for me.
Union is always scared of League, because they know it will eventually take over. South Africa always put their head in the sand over League.
@@bluegold6682😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
1:52 well in the URC there must be some games at 5000 to 7000. Because Leinsters games are always over 10.000 even in the pissing rain.
To me, rugby league's flagship product is basically the NRL. And yes, I also think there is no union club's championship that can match it economically as a product. But union end (and historic) product is International rugby and it's of an all another scale.
leauge is small scale budgets compared to French union! currency conversions included
record rugby union crowd ? 2000
The largest crowd for a rugby union match was the 109,874 who watched New Zealand win 39-35 at Sydney's Stadium Australia.
I watch NRL, SR, URC, Top14, super league, and Gallagher prem, but no longer follow each comp intricately. I look up the games that interest me and watch those. Eg, in the last week I've watched 2 urc, 1 gp, 2 nrl, 2 SR, and 3 top 14 matches (yes i need a life, but i don't watch much else). I don't really give a care about competitions until the finals. Until then, I'm just picking matches to entertain. There'll always be space for NRL as it's entertaining. I can't say the same for super rugby because atm, there's only one or two quality games a weekend if we're lucky
NRL is only 1 league competition so it’s all Rugby League fans really have.
Super Rugby, Top14, URC, Japanese league and most of all the European champions cup which is huge.
Union is definitely the bigger sport, more players, more fans and it’s still one of the fastest growing sports globally while League is littlest nonexistent in Wales my son plays Union l, said he can’t get into league because you can’t fight for the ball, it’s an odd game but each to their own.
Union is by far a bigger sport globally
Unions a far bigger sport, but there is another professional rugby league competition which is super league in england which has similar numbers in terms of attendance to the premiership
Irish Hurling! Now you're talking. Great fan base. 20 over cricket. Now that's fun to watch. I'm with Gazza. Both different but becoming less so. Both great to watch. Probably will meld one day.
Did you have a look at the growth in attendances. My understanding is that the NRL is a much older competition and any of the rugby union comps bar international matches. Also, look at the Champions cup over 16000 average atendance last year. Its been growing at about 2000 a year since crowds were allowed back post covid.
The NRL has to be the most entertaining and impressive domestic league in the world in my opinion.
Super League also deserves a lot of credit for how steady and reliable it has been. Most of the sides have been playing each other for well over 100 years. Bradford Bulls went bust about 20 years ago but while there are only 10 teams in the English Premiership and none in a position to be promoted, Super League has 11 English sides with promotion still in place (for now at least).
If I were a superstar Rugby player with the ability to write my own ticket and play wherever I wanted, I'd want to be playing in the NRL with a shortened season to play in the Six Nations and Union World Cup.
Comes. BARKS. IN. THE. New. NRL
Woah woah woah, this makes too much sense to be posted on a TH-cam channel.
I couldn’t agree with you more, if I was good enough i’d pull a Sonny Bill Williams. 2 year cycles for world cups and lions tours, then back to the NRL.
Very good video. It would be also interesting to know the Betfred Super League numbers
Although only 2m people watched the WC final highlights. 94 million people watched it live
Can ppl pls speculate on what Rugby Union would be like today both domestically & globally in terms of attendance, revenues/resources, stature/popularity, skill level & any other factors you can think of if it had never split into the 2 codes way back then?! Also, how does the European Champions Cup fka Heineken Cup compare to the NRL?
For one, the wallabies would be much stronger.
You can also speculate on if League wasn't banned by the Vichy government in France during WW2, when it was by far bigger than Union, what effect would that have had on Union?
@@handsolo1209 But you wouldn't have your scenario if the split never happened in the first place :)
The Top 14 is the Rugby Union Turnement that is closest to The N.R.L.
In terms of
Champions Cup French clubs dont tend to take it seriously until it gets
to the knockout rounds
they priorities
The Top 14 always.
@@alanfox691took it pretty serious this year mate
I’m South African so we only know union, but I heard it from an Aussie who played in the NRL who told me that union was for the rich elitists. If you came from a blue collar family background he said it was almost frowned upon to play union rugby as opposed to league or Aussie rules. Pretty interesting
it still is. If you don't go to the right school you'll never have a chance in Australian Rugby.
Rugby did much better at spreading the game. Being amatuer for so much longer benefitted it in that regard. League being professional meant they solely focused on making money and concentrating on their current product rather than helping wlthe worldwide game to grow.
Do you seriously look in a mirror and believe that contribution?
@@fasterout777 do you seriously believe you just made cogent response?
@@dane1056 So, you're happy to post a comment filled with errors and misinformation but you can't deal with a reply. Why not stick to you own lane and not comment on topics you clearly have no intelligence of.
@@fasterout777 having grown up playing both and being part of both scenes means I've got an opinion. Claiming misinformation with no proof suggests your a troll with nothing to add but nonsense. Keep trolling numb nuts. It's obviously all you have in life
@@fasterout777 you make the statement but don't explain what it is you think is false and full of errors. Seems more you're just talking out your backside.
Another thing to mention about club game is that rugby union has 4 big club comps in prem,URC,Top 14 and super rugby while rugby league only has NRL and super league (which isn’t as big as the prem in England). Rugby union also has a continental comp in the champions cup. Rugby league does have the world club challenge though which is very good and I think they should do this in union. Winner of champions cup vs winner of super rugby to be crowned best In the world. Feel the club World Cup will try and do this not sure how well though
Rugby sevens is also an offshoot of rugby union and Lea doesn’t have anything popular like that
As a union fan from Portugal. The most annoying type of union fan is definitely the one who jokes about how small league is, as if union by itself is not a small sport as well.
Plus, the vast majority of union fans are very casual, only watching the international tests. A sport can't sustain itself with that and league has the NRL, which is bigger than all of the union club competitions combined
Are you ‘avin a larf? Combine all the union club competitions together and it dwarfs the NRL, there are only 17 clubs, so even if it is well attended, that’s tiny compared to the global union club attendance.
@@alunjprice their TV deal is worth more than all of the major union comps combined. That's what I meant. Also, you could combine the support of the Welsh URC teams and it wouldn't match the support a team like the Broncos get
@@joaofigueiras1106thats cuz the welsh teams are really bad atm
@@subbie5498 the Welsh teams have never had good crowds, just look at the Ospreys when they had a crazy squad. People just aren't interested in club rugby, and thats where the focus should be
What a very stupid statement, google can help sort out your delusional statement, try it out
I'd say the NRL is the premier rugby competition in the world.
Whether you like union or league or both, the NRL (and State of Origin) exhibits the sport of rugby at its absolute finest, supported by massive TV air time with talk shows and fan entertainment.
Crash ball it 4-5 times. No creativity. Kick it in the last movement. League is essentially the dumbed down version of rugby. It’s checkers vs chess
@@andjammor That's true. League's focus is on entertainment and crafting a sport which is easy to understand. Union is more for the purist and lovers of international matches, which it does really well. NRL is a club competition.
Hhahahah you’re off your head, the state of origin 2023 was one of the most viewed with only 3.37 million, France rugby World Cup 2023 alone had over 800 million world wide, thats more viewership combined than state of origin games for the last 10 years lol🤣 stop the cap
I thought URC had better attendance. That number may be low because of small club stadiums in Wales, Ireland and Scotland. I'm seeing attendance of 20k + this season at the higher capacity stadiums.
A lot of the stadiums are very small due to lack of interest in club rugby. Scotstoun and Edinburgh are only 5000-7000. Italian stadiums are both about the same as Scotland. Only Leinster, Munster and Ulster really come close to selling out their larger stadiums in the NH. Welsh teams all play in stadiums too big for average club games. And despite the fact SA bring huge numbers of fans they are still usually playing in stadiums half full.
Average URC crowd is about 10000 which is outstanding considering 7 of the 16 teams can play in stadiums with a capacity less than that.
League in Australia is eating at Union. AFL is spread across Australia where NRL is only the eastern seaboard and Auckland for the Warriors. AFL has higher crowd attendance but NRL had a bigger TV audience. Rugby league is the most watched sport in Australia.
Af of recently AFL has bigger viewership, certainly in Australia.
@@LomuHabana incorrect
@@bluegold6682 no correct.
@@LomuHabana
Everyone is heading towards steaming league as well as on TV. AFL pointing out TV numbers have closed to almost level this season. But steaming is NRL well ahead again and the biggest growth market in media.
AFL better to see live
@@Wayne.J what the hell has steaming to do with the NRL? You mean streaming? Why does the AFL make more tv/streaming money then?
AFL better to watch on tv. Not sure about live.
So lets add some balanced and salient facts for the non-league subscribers.
1. There are 17 NRL franchise clubs INCLUDING the New Zealand Warriors (so not really JUST Australia)
2. Each NRL club has 30 first grade contracted players (thats 510 players)
3. 54% of all contracted players are of Polynesian/ Maori decent
4. Each franchise exists in a salary cap of approx $11 million per annum for all 30 contracted players
5. Minimum salary for contracted players is $200,000
6. Players also earn additional income through third-party and sponsorships which increase earning substantially
7. Each franchise also operates a "pathway" of development with teams in lower age brackets in 3 additional grades all feeding into the NRL side.
8. The NRL also funds a professional NRLW competition for females which has just announced 2 additional teams.
9. The NSWRL, QRL and ARL operate the "provicial" and international fixtures and selected players earn significant additional representative income.
10. NZRL also have a domestic 8 team competition and England plays the Superleague with teams mostly from the North of England but also one from France.
11. The NRL earns over $20 million per round in gaming commissions.
12. The NRL season is a 24 round regualr season with an additional 4 weeks post seaon finals
Why explain this, well as a fan of both codes its importants to clearly identify that the NRL is actually really a regional sport in Australi, NZ and the South Pacific with the NRL likely to announce a second franchise in NZ very soon which will pave the way for more rugby union talent to transition to league simply because of money.
Union will always be the internal game and RWC will always dominate every 4 years but league in this REGION simply dominates and iwith the NRL seriously evaluating the acquisition of the English Superleague along with a significant investment in North American promotion diverging futures of these two codes couldn't be more stark.
Just to the last bit you said. Even if NRL buys the Super league, I can’t imagine many players will be choosing Wigan or Hull over Sydney or Melbourne. So won’t it just end up the same as it already is? The best talent in Australia growing that league, with the English/European NRL falling behind to union.
Why is rugby league living rent free in so many union fans minds?
because league steal many good union players
I like both but prefer Union. I agree, club wise NRL wins in that category due to a condensed audience and lack of international calendar games. Union is small comparatively in club but big in international due to audiences being more spread out amongst clubs then brought together for international.
So if we are talking about which sport is bigger, for me its Union. Money wise, of course NRL has it, they only have to focus mainly on the comp and not so much on international, whereas Union money is spread out to grow (NZ for example) provincial, then the next level of SR and then national team for calendar games.
Well thats just my 2cents but i follow both codes, one more than the other.
I prefer union but also enjoy leagues as well. I think Super Rugby can take a lot of learnings from the NRL and how they engage fans.
As a League fan, I like watching the NPC. A lot of the teams reminded me of NRL's the battle of Western sydney.
shouldn't it be called the NRLL? National Rugby League League
No, you're missing the point completely.
In Russia rugby league called rugby-13
No because it is dominant rugby league in Australia
North SYDNEY. BRERS. Comes. BARKS. IN. A. Australia
League = NASCAR, Union = F1.
NASCAR & F1 hare both
Snoz marathons, if you sleeped through both now a day's, you would miss absolutely nothing.
I tried to get back
in to F1 & when Red Bull are winning every single race, buying a country mile it starts to get a bit pointless watching it a bit like Super Rugby when it comes to Crusaders costing it most seasons.
And in terms of N.R.L. apparently, you did not watch the Storm V Broncos game today
it had more twists & and turns than any F1 yrack will never have.
League = Checkers
Rugby = Chess
😅@@Primal-Weed
@@alanfox691Not knocking league. It's a pity the game is split. The Aussies bring so much to their sport. Growing up in Ireland had no exposure to league but believe me I've tried to watch it. Lived in Brisbane in mid 90s when Broncos were kings. Just couldn't hold my attention. Fell in love with test cricket though. Actually there's another analogy.
Union = Test Cricket, League = T20
@@Primal-WeedLeague = Checkers = Baseball
Rugby = Chess= test cricket
It doesn’t have to fight against soccer in Europe .
it's spelled "football"
NRL has to fight against AFL, Cricket, and Football/Soccer... Europe's TV market isn't as saturated as the Australian market.
The Australian winter sports coverage is the most competitive of any country in the world (or at least it was for a long time). You have AFL, NRL, SR, A-league as the major sports but Australia in general watches a crazily large amount of sport from surf living saving to triathlon to horse racing.
It is one of the reasons why super rugby is struggling.
It is actually incredible that the rebels lasted as long as they did independently in Melbourne which is the AFL heart land and the storm which has a huge following.
@@duplicafly98awww, it's ok precious.
Good articulate article
I agree........ P.S... the NRL are gunning for rugby's women too, The NRLW will eclipse all women's rugby....that's my prediction
I honestly probably actually start watching NRLW next year because my team(the bulldogs) are getting a team.
Rugby league doesn't have as many rules. Being an AFL fan. I find Rugby Union stop start stop start it doesn't flow like AFL or Soccer. Living In Melbourne AFL completely dominates the football codes. Having said that, Rugby League is easier to watch. For an AFL fan. I just wish rugby players could kick properly Aussie rule players can kick further higher on the run with both feet and run twice as far. Rugby is ok if you like stop start games
Ever since melbourne joined the NRL, they've brought in the AFL influence of kicks and aerial contests. I truly think both sports influence each other. Even cricket has an influence in league to with the off the slips catches that you'd see guys like munster and Hughes do to defuse an offensive grubber.
Just cant get into League, yeah the pace of it can be entartaining but it just feels like a much more dumbed down version of the sport and more of an individuals game than a team game
This!
Union has always been more interesting to me, both playing and watching. And since watching decent analysis videos like Squidge, it's only enhanced Union as a way more interesting game. Aside from the State of Origin, I can't watch League any more.
Union's entire tactic is push and shove followed by a kick & giggle. Absolutely no skill or intelligence needed
I'm a rugby fan but I gotta say the NRL final is mental, it has the same feel in Sydney as the Rugby world cup in NZ, or the Football World cup final in Europe. Since the clubs rule, no one cares about growing it outside Oz . Its also a higher skill level than club rugby. Internationals ... well thats a different thing
okay so France has 3 division of fully professional rugby union (that's 42 clubs)
and 1 pro league team (post ww2 capturing of league assets)
@@iamnutty8471 2 actually, Catalans in Super League and Toulouse in the RFL Championship
When are the French Rugby Union going to return all the money and assets they stole from League in WWII. The French Rugby Union will always have the dark stain of collaboration until they rectify this.
People from oceania acting like nrl are the nba o nfl nobody outside aus and nz cares about that league with ordinary shirts
Union, obviously. Not a knock against league, I love the NRL, but you could easily sell out the union world cup final 10x over. You can't say the same for league.
League is like watching Groundhog Day. Same thing over and over. Run into contact and repeat. There’s no variety and doesn’t require the multiple skills or player types like Union. It’s like comparing pitch and putt to golf
Union is better, but then you get the Matte Williams of the world trying to get the rules of Union changed to look like league....
This is a fair point but watching scrums collapse over and over and mauls or pick and go's grind their way joylessly to the line or another penalty is like Groundhog Day too.
Opposite I'm afraid Union stop/Start unfit fat blokes falling over each other is dull as dishwater.
That’s like saying that snooker is like watching Groundhog Day. Same thing over and over. Pot red balls in a way that sets you up for a colour. There’s no variety and it doesn’t require the multiple skills that are involved in bar billiards. A principle of good game design is that a game should be easy to learn yet difficult to master. Rugby Union violates that. More variety is not a good thing
Interesting comparison
I'm a Saffa and love rugby union, have watched almost every Bok game they have played in South Africa in the last three years, as well as the quarters to the final in the world cup. I live in Bloem so watch a couple of Cheetahs games a year, but they are not in the URC so there aren't that many games to watch. I barely knew what league was 2 years ago, and don't really care about it beyond the impact it currently has on union which I feel is quite shit. Nz and Aus people in union are pushing union to be "faster" because they think that is why league is more popular in those regions. I think if this is just left unchecked it will probably be the death of rugby union as the scrums, line-outs and kicking is depowered and eventually made obselete, the game won't be for all shapes and sizes anymore, this will reduce space and missmatches which in turn will make it necesarry to reduce the number of players on the field. I think they should have a law freeze in union for at least three years, except for real safety issues, and get a proper gauge of where the game is heading. Unless you follow it avidly the rules change too much to know whats going and that deters new fans.
The speed of the game when we talk about League, is about the speed of officiating decisions, as well as the minimization of dead time between sets. The speed of the game you are referring to, while partially true, from a League perspective, is more focused on keeping the officiating as simple as possible, which in turn will inevitably speed the general game up as a consequence. You don't need to hold a game up for ransom, watching 20 replays of an incident like what used to be accustomed to in Union. League has the bunker, a concept Union has only just started to implement. There are other ways in which the game is faster paced too.
What the NRL realized in the modern era, is that they're in the entertainment business, not the sport business. Watch and observe their moves over the last two decades, and you will see they have taken many clear notes from the NFL & NBA in particular, especially as it pertains to fan engagement & off-field presence. They have the official NRL fantasy league. They also have a retirement ceremony for players during Grand Final day. They have an MVP race that everyone can see week-to-week, culminating in a huge TV audience watching for the results live on air during Grand Final week. In fact, they make every effort possible to make Grand Final week as grandiose as can be. Finally, they have huge TH-cam viewership numbers that normally dwarf many Union games. While many may, and will say, all that stuff is nonsense, the end product still equates to more money, and more loyalty from their fan base for said side shows. They look to cater to any potential fan need as possible.. that is why League is big in Australasia. It's not because the sport is "faster..." They have learnt how to monetize everything they can.
I just want to clarify many kiwis thoughts, as they're often misrepresented. I and many ppl I know want rugby union to be as fast as it was. That is, get rid of the stoppages and time management that have been introduced to the game in the last 15 years.
Fwiw, most kiwi rugby players actually love scrums, mauls, forward grunt play. I was a prop, my brother was a prop. Our dad was a hooker. We just want the game to flow
Both union world cup finals were a debacle and it seems that the governing body recognize this. 32/80 minutes of actual rugby being played is an embarrassment and is indefensible.
@@DownUnderWarboss was it now? Very exciting and entertaining with record number of spectators each tournament exceeding that of the previous WC.
@@SplatWun I agree with this 100% I think bigger focus needs to be put in the entertainment aspect and the sport itself should be left alone for a bit just to settle.
Half the recent rule changes are to fix something another rule change caused, it's impossible to get the entertainment aspect right while the sport is this unstable.
I think union's biggest issues are instability and inconsitency, they need to get the game stable, which will in turn simplify and speed up officiating and make it more consistent. After that they can worry about ball in play time and flow of the game and all the rest of the nice to haves
NRL is easily the premier footy in both codes, unreal to watch and state of origin is pure next level. But the all blacks and the union WC are bloody class and a great spectacle every 4 years too
I love the exhbition games in the NRL which is something that is heavily lacking in union.
If you live outside Australia, New Zealand (and I guess the north of England), the answer to that question is...what is rugby league? 😁🤣
Add South Africa to the list 😂
I like both as well as the AFL.
Me too.
1. AFL
2. Union
3. League
As someone who just started watching rugby for 3 months I overwhelmingly prefer league. It’s faster paced and more enjoyable to watch
Yeah when I was a kid I was really into league as well. Nowadays I find it a bit same-samey - but the skill levels are nuts for sure
I think if Major League Rugby blows up in the states within the next decade or so it will for sure put Union Rugby on another level financially.
Yeah it's still very much a niche sport in the States - most of those guys need to have other jobs during the year, but it's a start
How do the two codes compare at Grassroots level?
I would suppose if you were to factor in the Champions Cup in Europe it might swing attendance numbers a little, but comparing the domestic competitions a more of a level playing field.
I get your point that NRL is bigger at club level than in rugby. But the opposite at nation level. I would suggest the reason the NRL is bigger at club is because,
the NRL, actively sub-press the internation game, as they know they would be in trouble...as Aust would win 99% of games. Therefore are you comparing apples with apples???
400 millons aud is 260 millons USD, if you have around 100 millons per european competition (eng + france + urc ) you are talking about 300 millones euros wich is way more than 260 millons USD
You've added three competitions together. Comparison is one v one competition eg NRL v URC
I think I heard that the next League world cup is gonna get cut down to 10 teams.
Oh and why didn't you look at the Super League numbers??
Kalyn Ponga picked Australia because he wanted to play for Queensland. Which seems wild to anyone that doesn’t know about Rugby League. That says it all about international comps in league. Playing for a state in Australia vs other Australians is the highest level of rugby league.
Rugby is played in more leagues (organised regional comps) than League has professional clubs and on more continents (a given). More ex-players who have extracted the benefits and apply it usefully in their daily life. We have less people in jail, or dealing with mental issues. Rugby League is entertainment for the WW1 Officer mentality. _"Off you go chaps, walk in a straight line towards those machine guns. I'll stay here to fill my ink cartridge and keep the tea warm. Best of British and all that. Ever so nice to have met you. Been absolutely lovely whatever your name was."_
Rugby Union is for those who need to have very good reasons to expect the enemy will 'cease and desist' for their benefit.
You seem to have a difficult relationship with reality.
@@TRexo-ds5ze Which you will now dissect and expose the source of disconnection. I'll wait _for the notifications._
@@peterclark6290 There is no dissecting that sort of mindless waffle
@@TRexo-ds5ze Not for you genius. Back in your cage.
I like both
What about total pair of eyeballs as club level world wide??
I watch both and enjoy both. They are appealing to me in different ways. Union is appealing in the different aspects of line outs scrums etc more contests in different facets of the play whereas I like the continuous flow and pace in leage. I do think Union could take a few more learnings from the league to make the game a bit more exciting. For one I find in league the calls and TMO decisions tend to be quicker. The scrums in union need to be reffed better and my suggestion would be to get a scrum ref on and start recruiting ex front rowers to ref this part. They would know best who is up to no good in the scrums 😅 and IRB needs to stop with all the rule changes they are slowly ruining the game! anyways love your content and always enjoy the videos!
I get sick of it also. The Club game is all that 5 tackle & kick really has, so of course it has big numbers for that.
Can we just love both!!
rugby League is carried by the nrl and a little by the super League when we look in the rest of the world it is regression, the last European championship has been cancelled.
The next World Cup will bring together only 10 nations when in rugby union it will play at 24 nations, in truth it’s just that in some nations there are difficulties in Australia the rebels should disappear at the end of the season and their national team is extremely weak, in England the clubs are over indebted and in Wales they have so much trouble that I can’t even list them all
Have you ever heard of commas and full stops?
@@joaofigueiras1106
Chill some of us have problems with spelling & grammar that is not fault of our own it's how we where born.
I personally have Homocystinuria something I doubt you personally have the first clue about so stop the bloody high & mighty act get a flaming grip.
No one made you the the judge of humanity so raign it in or bolt.
This is about Rugby Union not bloody spelling & grammar.
Christ you should come to
Scotland the S.N.P. would snap you up as qick as you could blink they love people like you it could be a life long job for you.
Union clubs are in debt sure, doesn’t mean the support is struggling. They, like ALL uk businesses, are really struggling with spiralling costs. And then they’re also trying to stay competitive with France and if you make the wrong decisions with loans, bad liquidity and equity etc, they’ll go under. Or your millionaire/billionaire owner don’t want the losses anymore. But it’s not just a rugby thing. Most championship football clubs, so clubs in the league below the premier league, also make a loss and football is massive here
@@jakeclough8090 except that the English rugby clubs in cumulative have more than 340 million pound debts it’s just huge if the british government forces them to repay, all the clubs will go bankrupt, also the leaders of the rfu kill the championship by preventing clubs from going up for bogus reasons and the rfu is the richest union in the world in terms of liquidity and it is also the 2nd in terms of registered players if the premiership collapses it is the end of rugby in England
@@maximus_3111 just talking rubbish 😂
I'm like your dad, I enjoy both codes and I cant understand ppl who say they love one and hate the other. They are so similar, enjoy them both ! Up the Wahs and up the ABs
I like scrums, turnovers and lineouts that’s why I don’t like league
best contribution to this comments sectiion. Well said
Union
Union is the best. A game for all shapes and sizes
This is why Gus Gould wants the NRL to buy the 🏴 RFL so they can have an overview to run the international game for Europe and the Americas
But look at the stormers who have over 30 000 attendance every saturday in Cape town.
The Stormers have always had great support, even in the Super Rugby days. I wish they had won a Super Rugby title lol.
It's not really a straightforward comparison to make. In this comparison, there are fair few variables at play. The saying "There are lies, dammed lies, and then there are statistics" comes to mind.
League primarily concentrated over 2 competitions
Union split over 5 "big" leagues and one big competition in the champions Cup.
Do you then compare each competition individually or as united fronts?
In European countries, Union is absolutely dwarfed by football again. Union is not even the second most popular sport in most countries. Do we then say in that context, union is more appealing since it has compete for sponsors, viewership, and participants with a behemoth such as football? The NRL, on the other hand, does compete with other sports, but does the two environments compare? Therefore, what are the comparable market shares of each code within their operating environment then?
These are just 2 factors I quickly thought of. Ultimately , to fully compare, it would involve a fairly complex statistical analysis with a lot more variables than we can think of.
In the end, rugby union is doing well and growing (with the exception of Aus). League, I don't know, but the NRL on its own is already very impressive.
Who cares then! With the exception of a few countries, as a whole, both codes are doing well!
I sure that the arrival of the messiah (Joseph Suaalii) to the Wallabies will answer all the issues in Australian Rugby, hell, RA has mortgaged the farm to do it, Seriously, what an epic waste of money that deal is given he;ll run straight back to the NRL when the RA money dries up.
year 2000
The largest crowd for a rugby union match was the 109,874 who watched New Zealand win 39-35 at Sydney's Stadium Australia.
NRL in Australia gets more to club games but union in Australia gets more people to an international than league. I'm sick of NRL poaching good union players in Oz.
I think the club leagues aren’t comparable because certainly in the UK, we have the football, which restricts numbers for rugby but in the Pacific you don’t have that
Huh? You think that leage or Union operate in a vacuum of no competition in the Pacific? Heard of AFL? Do you not think that Fottball isnt also growing in the Pacific? FFS, given how bad the Wallabies are now...Australia's "national team" is probobly the Soccoroos!
@@fasterout777 no the cricket team is our national team. Honestly not trying to be racist,( I love the fact that Australia is so multi-cultural). But just by looking at the last names of the cricket team players compared to the soccer team shows which sport has the national team.
@@fasterout777 Soccer is still irrelevant in Australia but it has surpassed Rugby Union in importance but then again so has netball.
Union is bigger but the NRL is the best competition
we needa top who cares whats better its what u like what why do people care so much about whats better its what u like better
League is popular on one continent. And has one big competition in Australia. Union has big competition in every other continent. How are the other league competitions doing? Non existing. In other countries this isn’t even a question no one cares about league other than Aus and NZ.
So you're just ignoring England, France and most other European countries, USA, Canade, South America and the Pacific Islands that have Rugby League competitions.
I would say league better club comp but union streets ahead internationally and in terms of club union is closer to league then league is to union internationally. Rugby World Cup trumps the nrl in terms of numbers ( viewers profit) and it’s not even close
Nice video. I must say I've never understood the "Bigger game" argument. In the UK, rugby is nowhere near football (soccer). It's not only the most popular sport it's also the second and joint third most popular as Championship and League one teams get crowds that Rugby Union or Rugby League teams (or even Cricket teams) would die for. It was heart-breaking as a rugby fan, watching the 20,000+ seater Madejsk stadium in Reading sold out or virtually full for "Tier Two" and "Tier Three" football matches but less than a 20% full for "Tier One" London Irish Rugby Union games (and I was one of only 2000 people to see an international Rugby League game there 20 years ago!).
Yes League isn't played as widely as Union but again you are arguing over the crumbs as neither is anywhere in comparison with football which is arguably the one true global team sport and rugby union and league doesn't even come in the top 10. I love both sports but I find the argument about which is bigger baffling as neither is as big as football or cricket or baseball or basketball etc etc.
I tend to watch more NRL than Super Rugby just because it's easier to access in the UK and the Union competition has definitely suffered from the loss of the SA teams. But I'd never miss a Six Nations game nor the State of Origin so I'm not really bothered how many other people are watching 🙂
Do you think that one day Super Rugby will be able to join the Investec Champions Cup and the Challenge Cup?
I’m only a new rugby code fan being a Melbournian. I’m an AFL fan, AFL smashes attendance of most sports. But has low/no take up overseas. I like all 3, league is a club game and state of origin is the epitomy of the sport internationally. Whereas union is awesome internationally, club comp sucks. especially in Melbourne where I didn’t know the rebels existed til recently. I hate any sport comparison and love most
One has a thriving international competition, and still strong club competition, the other doesn’t. Enough doesn’t.
No comparison in my mind, league is just shallow with guys running into each other. Union is strategic, the scrum, line out and breakdown are all super interesting.
Super Rugby looking far worse than 10k. Blues v Force past weekend was very sad.
We are keep. NSW
Club Rugby Union is far better to watch than the penalty laden Rugby Union Test matches. Rugby Union is the only professional sport that gets less entertaining the higher the grade.
As a league fan, I'd prefer NPC, and premiership rugby both remind me of 2013 super rugby.
This is why soccer is king, it is one game everywhere in the world. We have Union, League & then there's American Grid Iron. We are happy in our small compartments but will never be able to compete in size. Worse is a sport like Karate. Full contact v sports karate don't talk at all. There are many different styles and codes, each with their own rules. It's such a massive sport, with representation in many more countries than rugby but they are not even an Olympic sport because of all the splits and variations.
The average attendance for a Northampton Saints game is 35,000.
Yeah Saints and Tigers seem to have great fanbases in the Prem. The Broncos in the NRL are at something like 39k. Lowest team this year even had 11k. Much better than Super Rugby - but the AFL in Australia would be even higher
I like both codes, but the excessive use of the TMO in union makes it challenging to watch; NRL simply plays faster.
I would say overall Union is the bigger sport globally due to having a much larger international game BUT the NRL is bigger than any club Union competition.
Rugby has professional rugby comps all over the world. League has only 2.
Union is way bigger and it’s not even close. League is only played in Oz and north of England. Union is played everywhere now
I’d say the Top 14 probably has the NRL’s number for the bigger domestic competition. Fan numbers and atmosphere seem much better in the Top 14, even more so when you consider Pro D2 is much much more popular than NSW and QLD Cup.
@@thewielloyd988 It;s impossible to emphasise just how ridiculous this statement is. NRL franchises (all 17 of them) operate 4 grades, have 30 contracted players and spend a collective $200 million a years on first grade player contracts under the salary cap
@@thewielloyd988
Last year the Top 14 and Pro D2 had 3.9 million in attendance combined.
The NRL had over 4 million.
Do some research 😂😂
You’re right, NRL is a giant compared to any rugby comp in the world - that’s even being hamstrung with so many Sydney teams. If they go ahead and buy the English Super League then look out Union.
Even if NRL bought the Super league, can’t imagine many players will be choosing Hull over Sydney. Id imagine it would be the same as it is now. I’m pretty positive that if Australia invested in a club union competition similar to the NRL that it would immediately start as one of the most desirable leagues to play in. The same reason that lots of players want to go play in the South of France, The lifestyle.
I feel international union has crippled club rugby. All the nonsense about needing to stay in your country to play for your country. Players should be allowed to go where they want with out having test caps used as blackmail to stay.
@@struandickson9082 they tried a national comp and it failed. Super Rugby has had teams in Sydney, Brisbane, Canberra, Melbourne and Perth… yet it’s now pretty much done. The only time it did well was during the Super League War back in the 90s when Rugby League was on its knees. There’s no way back for Union because there’s simply no real supporter base - the few that exist just haven’t joined the others that converted to Swans season ticket holders.
@@daveb3987 I totally get what your saying. Though if the NRL was on its knees then there is no reason union can’t make a reasonable comeback? When I lived in Brisbane and the Gold Coast I was always shocked by how big the local clubs were and the really high level of schoolboy union. So there must some fan base of the sport that is just very disenfranchised from their pro clubs.
When there was only ACT, NSW and QLD taking the really elite talent in Aus thrived internationally, and because the clubs were winning fans attended games. Essentially for a decade we’ve know the final of super rugby would be the crusader vs *insert any kiwi team. And that has really hurt Australian Rugby
@@struandickson9082 the NRL was only on its knees in the 1990s because of Super League. That won’t happen again in living memory. It’s taken this long for the game to get back to where is was in 1994 - this time it’s not retreating.
Meanwhile, the Warriors have just officially sold old every single home game this year. Extraordinary, and certainly highlights the chances of a 2nd NZ team in Christchurch.
@@daveb3987 Okay, but the All blacks are still the pinnacle of rugby for most Kiwi kids.
Let’s go back to your original comment now, why should union be worried if the NRL bought super league? Super league is probably the last thought of most people in the Northern hemispheres mind. Players aren’t going to change the way they go about choosing clubs. Cause like I said nobody in their right mind is choosing Hull over Sydney
Guys no matter of it is union or league, just keep both alive and support them as football is shadowing everything 😂😂
The average attendance for Top 14 match in France is 27,000. Its bigger and better than the NRL
It's a shame that the ARU is so focused on turning the game into league (to compete with the NRL), that the rest of us have to deal with the consequences in terms of rule changes and marketing.
Don't let the ARU win they are full of incompetents running Rugby Union. Union's dead in Australia so just ignore them and play your own dull and boring version of the game you love.
@bluegold6682 Yeah, we won't allow them dumb down our great game
NZ is a sporting nation and punches well above its weight in both codes. Not many nations can lay claim to that.😂
One sport is in the Olympics and the other isn’t. Thats huge in terms of casual fans or potential new fans tuning in
7's is just a kids sport it's like the crap 20/20 cricket
To be honest I used to prefer AFL and NRL to super rugby but my afl and nrl teams haven’t gotten a premiership in 40 years but brumbies got it 2020
What about the Japan Rugby League competition, some pretty big money being poured into that. Surprising Rugby 7s has never been able to become a bigger sport.
😅I'm a ex League player and fan,but I would rather watch international union than international league,but club rugby league I prefer 😮😮😮
Rugby league is a struggling sport internationally. If youre a rugby league player you wouldnt get much chance of playing club rugby abroad except for Australia where as in Union you will have the chance to play rugby club level in Europe, USA, Japan, NZ, SA and Australia. Huge difference.
Incorrect you can play in England and France. Let's face it no Professional Rugby Union player would play anywhere else but these countries apart from Japan anyway.
@bluegold6682 Ireland? Italy?
In league where can you play, besides Australia, North England and NZ?😂
Send all Super Rugby Players to URC, English, France and English League. Its what yoou get for kicking SA out
Here in the US when people think of rugby they think of union, no one even knows league exists. Rugby Union has a far bigger international profile.
"Super" Rugby is a rubbish franchise competition. That doesn't help in Australia.
Everywhere else, Rugby Union is bigger.
You can't really use social media followers to judge Rugby popularity. Most People who like Rugby Union don't tend to be the kind of people who sit on social media all day. They tend to have lives.
Rugby union
Western Australia
Can’t compare the NRL against the union club comps individually, you need to think about all of them in aggregate. NRL + the English league comp together versus all the union comps together
I love rugby union.🏉❤ I like everything about it! I can't stand rugby league. It's better to watch North American football.🏈
Australia
I feel like the oddball here, but rugby sevens is my second favourite code after union
dont you only play league and back line union-league in nz 😊