Jose Mesa got mad at Omar Vizquel, then threw baseballs at him for 5 years | Beef History
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2024
- When Jose Mesa blew the save for Cleveland in Game 7 of the 1997 World Series, it started a chain of events that would end with him getting traded within a year and beginning a very, very long feud with former teammate and friend Omar Vizquel. How did one rough outing on the mound turn into multiple years of plunkings and threats of violence?
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If Jose Mesa didn't shake off multiple Sandy Alomar Jr's signs, the Indians would've won the World Series and none of this ever happens.
What? But Sandy Alomar Jr is a good catcher. Why would Mesa shake away his signs?
David Destefani Mesa was shook. He was never going to collect that save.
That's debatable
TheGodYouWishYouKnew deer 🦌 in headlights look 👀
K
Looking back, ‘97 is one of the few World Series where I genuinely believe the better team lost. Cleveland outhit, outscored, and largely outplayed the Marlins during the series, and it was mostly thanks to a few lucky breaks that the Marlins wound up winning in the end.
95 Indians too imp Braves were good but they way the Indians cruised to the division idk maybe I’m wrong
Lifelong Cleveland fan. We curse Mesa’s name to this day. Mention him in a bar and end up starting a fight
What are you talking about? Herscheiser got shelled in game 1. The bullpen got destroyed in game 3, and Alou hit a clutch homerun off Herscheiser in game 5. The series was as close as can be.
@afridgetoofar1818 allow me to elaborate. First of all, the Indians did outscore the Marlins 44-37 and outhit them 72-68. The Marlins also committed more errors (8) than the Indians (5). Cleveland had the lead in 44 of the 65 innings they played. Games 2 and 4 were blowout wins for the Indians. The Marlins never had a lead in any of the three games Cleveland won, while the Indians did have a lead in the four games Florida won. So yes, I think it's fair to say that the Indians outplayed the Marlins for most of the series.
As for the aforementioned lucky breaks, there are two in game 7 in particular that doomed the Indians:
1. Jose Mesa falling asleep at the wheel and blowing the save.
2. That critical error by Tony Fernandez in the bottom of the 11th on what would've otherwise been a double play that ended the inning (or, at the very least, Fernandez gets Bonilla at second and there are two outs instead of one).
@@GregTheTerrible All good points. Jose Mesa blowing the save in the 9th was the low point of my life as a sports fan.
I would love to see the Beef between Michael Jordan and Isiah Thomas.
indeed
Can't believe this hasn't been done yet.
Me neither. Magic and Isiah would be great too.
Still waiting
2 hour video
Please do a beef history on Mike Piazza and Roger Clemens
random_shy_guy or roger Clemens beef with baseball bats
F that baseball rivalries are SAWFT do Scott Stevens and Eric Lindros
Yes!!!!!!
@@adam856023 I'm pretty sure they have, try searching it
Wasnt beef it was Mike owning clemens every time they met so he was pissed lol
Mike Piazza and Roger Clemens
^^^this right here^^^
The Jamaican Thunder Rohan Davey Good point, I always wondered what clemens' problem with Piazza was. Besides roger being an immature, fat cheater and child.
@@67marlins81 Piazza hit well against him. Then Clemens drilled him in the head in an interleague game and Piazza said he thought it was intentional. Clemens then throws a bat shard at Piazza in the World Series.
@@jasonaronson4507 you got it....
@@67marlins81 He's not a cheater. Roger Clemens's wife really needed PEDs. (Sarcasm).
Mesa didn't exactly pull an Armando Benitez in that game - he gave up 2 singles and a sacrifice fly. People talk about it like he was Mitch Williams in 1993 and it wasn't at all. Heck even Mariano's G7 outing in Arizona in '01 was a meltdown by comparison.
This is a classic baseball beef, glad it's covered.
Ben Albeyta Childish petty bullshit and beanballs? Yep, it's a classic baseball beef alright.
Vontaze Burfict vs the Pittsburgh Steelers
Vontaze Burfict vs. the NFLPA
ca 1997, I was just young enough and the Indians vs. Marlins were just far enough away from my fandom that Mesa's collapse had long faded from my memory. Interestingly enough, this has reminded me of one other collapse he suffered that also redirected his career.
When Safeco Forks opened in the second half of 1999, the first game was a thrilling example of "true" baseball entering the Top of the 9th. The hometown Mariners had just come back with a 2-run rally in the bottom of the 8th to have a 2-1 lead to Mesa who proceeded to... repeat his personal history. He gave up two runs, got the loss and had passed the point of no-return in Seattle Home Fan disdain. He just never seem to receive a warm welcome when he came in to pitch for the home crowd for the rest of his tenure in Seattle. He sucked the entire time he was there, but he was really, *really* unwelcome after that one particular gaffe on his Seattle resume full of... almost nothing but gaffes.
I find it interesting that Cleveland's ace Orel Hershiser lost 2 games in that series, Charles Nagy gave up the winning run in the 11th inning and yet Jose Mesa gets blamed for losing the series!
Intensity of that one on-the-brink-of-clinching moment. The psychological impact of failure to close a single game has been destructive to many -- perhaps most and nearly all -- MLB closers.
That's not Nagy's role. Also the error by Fernandez
@@FlyingDwarfman You're not wrong, but you're also missing the original point, which is that fans and players disproportionately blame certain individuals when other players have sustained periods of bad play when the light isn't as focused upon them. We should call this the Buckner effect. While I disagree with harassing players at all, it's definitely not cool to pick on someone who otherwise was solid but had maybe one moment of weakness that just happened to be at a pivotal moment.
@@roguishpaladin No, I didn't. Rather, "the intensity of the moment and psychological impact of failure" is precisely what causes fans to disproportionately blame certain individuals.
If you’ve got more ideas for ‘beeves’
how does he not laugh when saying it?!?!?! too funny!!!!!
Once a cow has his beef'mitzvah, he permanently sheds his V, from veal to beef. "Beeves" is udderly disrespectful.
The rock & triple h, real beef
ummmm how about the Calgary Flames and Edmonton Oilers. not just from the same province(state) but in the mid to late 80;s and early 90's it was one of the most brutal rivalries in sports.
It is possible though that a young cow may not be ready for the responsibilities of adult cowness. So he stays a beev for awhile until he grows up.
FIVE YEARS! Seems like his arm would get tired.
Marcus underrated comment
I don't follow baseball much since my hometown Expos left but I love these videos so much!
The music when Mesa saying he’ll kill him 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Omar is one of the greatest of all time
Just ask the bat boy he sexually harassed, he’ll tell you how great Omar is🤡
Donovan McNabb vs Terrell Owens.
Zoel Otero oooo that's a good one.
Zoel Otero That's my quarterback! Oh wait no, he cried for Romo
Terrell Owens vs Jeff Garcia, or Terrell Owens vs The Cowboys, or Terrell Owens vs NFL Fines.
Terrel Owens vs football.
just did it
0:56
What do you expect? It's Cleveland. Their track record of choking is truly astounding.
"Guess what I have behind my back..... Yeah, it was a baseball, good guess." LMFAO
The Cleveland Indians as a team name and club wasn't racist change my mind
Even if the name is neutral, the logo always gave me pause
Omar’s my favorite short stop of all time
How about now?
@@arsenal-slr9552 yep innocent until proven guilty
Yet he don't know who you are.
@@satanspit4101 they call me diablo tho. Haha 😄 🤣 😂
@@poochucker0076 Still?
1:44 “lol what is this object I’m holding” lmao
Jose Bautista and Darren O'Day/Orioles deserve one of these. Probably started When Bautista hit a dinger off of O'Day as a Texas Ranger in 2010-2011 and lasted until 2017. You guys can also do one on the Jays vs Texas Rangers from 2015 to 2016 which resulted in some memorable brawls and eliminations in the playoffs.
*as a blue jay* you may havemeant?
I just wanted to tell yall i really enjoy this series
Omar trying to cover for Mesa by saying something probably got lost in translation when he said he was gonna kill him is so funny
Honestly, that blown save deserves a deep Rewind
or Rentaria's series-winning hit in the twelfth inning
@@thedude3065 *11th inning
Well you got your wish 😂
SB Nation, is, far and away, the best sports channel on TH-cam/sports website
Jose mourinho Vs Pep Guardiola, Jose Mourinho Vs Arsene Wenger, Wenger Vs Sir Alex Ferguson , Lane Kiffin V Tennessee
Eros Gonzalez Mou vs Pep is gold.
Zoel Otero “en este sala es el puto amo” !!- Pep Guardiola hahaha that was really the height of el Classico for me
@@zoelotero that's not over yet because they both still manage, I think they only do beef that is in the past
Mourinho v. Wenger was epic
You could probably do an entire spinoff based on Mourinho's beefs alone.
Mate, have you done Jordan vs Krause yet?
Do a beef history on Porterhouse vs Ribeye
This might actually be my favourite beef history.
"Don't you dare try to stop me this time, Smee, try to stop me. Smee, you'd better get up off your ass. Get over here, Smee"
thanks and best regards from venezuela. I still watch that game 7 and crry :(((((
Jose Mourinho Vs Pep Guardiola
WE LIKE SPORTS AND WE DON'T CARE WHO KNOWS
Kofie Why? Football football football tennis hockey... Golf
I like my friend, he's a real guy's guy, and he's not a loudmouth like that cunthole Steve.
From shooting hoops to the super bowl
Welcome to another college football Saturday.
What this video misses is Mesa versus Charles Johnson, perhaps the most critical AB of the series. Mesa had him down 1-2, and Johnson singled to right to put runners on the corners. If that doesn’t happen, Cleveland probably wins the World Series and there’s no beef.
Alex Weaver might make a good episode of Rewinder!
This.
Also, I hate Mesa but I do have to admit, Alou's hit was a bloop and Johnson hit a good pitch.
Yeah, Hargrove wanted him to throw a fastball inside. But Mesa shook him off and he threw a slider that was actually off the plate that Johnson blooped into right field keeping the Marlins alive. Johnson was in protect mode and comfortable at the plate so it would have made more sense to bust him inside and then if Johnson stays alive, throw an off speed pitch off the plate. Mesa's slider was average at best, IMO.
@@NZ92673 proof that relievers often times are the biggest headcases and own worst enemies lmao
I mean, the little graphic at 0:36 shows that Mesa pitched a 3.1 inning save the game before, so shouldnt be too hard on him for blowing game 7.
rjskillz92 no, those are Jose Mesa's stats through the World Series up to that point. To the right of his nane it says series. That's how NBC graphics differentiated the sample size of the stat line. At the bottom its just letting you know he also got the save in game 6.
billny33 ah right
Both teams' bats were fast asleep that night, and all Jose Mesa had to do was execute. It can be sorta "rrrr get er done" to say "succeed or I don't respect you," but I think it's fair in this case.
Do Sherman and Crabtree
Enma Perez omg yeeeeeeees
Maybe a little later for that one because I think it's still got a chance to go further.
Or Sherman and Carroll
It wasn't really much of a beef. It basically lasted just the one season before Crabtree went to Oakland. At this point there's more beef with Crabtree and Aquib Talib over the whole chain breaking thing.
Vontaze Burfict vs the Pittsburgh Steelers
Mesa shouldn’t have taken that scrimmage home run celebration personal but I understand why he did. Vizquel shouldn’t have said that about Mesa on his book either, you win and lose as a team, he implied Mesa was the responsible for the loss. Both acted a bit overboard and extra.
I’m still pissed at Jose Mesa to this day
So... Mesa hit him twice? Hatfields and McCoys this ain't.
To be fair, he also threatened to kill him.
@@rockzyk1291 Who hasn't threatened to kill someone? 99.9999% it's in a joking way.
True. However, most people don't double down to the media after the other person goes "LOL what a joker..."
Also, it wasn't a funny-haha-hit-him-in-the-butt HBP. It was a scary HBP. Those count more.
Molina/STL vs. Brandon Phillips.
MSUHitman molina still gets boo'd in cincy to this day
@@Feisar04 Phillips was talkin mad ish about the Cards prior, Molina was spot on, and would've have floored BP easily
i was waiting for this one!
Dude is 6" taller and 50+ lbs heavier, and yet it turns out Mesa's the little man in the feud. One of these guys is one of the most loved Indians ever and will be in the HoF soon. The other? Forever known as the guy who blew the '97 series.
Don't count your chickens before they hatch. If Omar makes it, it prob won't be for 7-9 years, and he has a chance to miss.
Yeah but Omar is clearly the child here, saying something like that about a team mate, I’d drill him too. I was an Indians fan back then, and Omar let us down more than once.
He didn't say anything when they were teammates. 1) Mesa threw at Omar before he said the "kind mean thing" in his book. By the time Omar published his book (in 2002) Mesa and himself hadn't been teammates for 3-4 years (Mesa traded in 1998). He wrote a book and said something unflattering about an EX-teammate. Grow up angel I can tell you are clearly biased.
No way vizquel makes the HoF with 45.6 career WAR
Baseball is slowly dying so neither will be remembered too long
That was a dumb comment about the Indians logo
Jose Canibal it's racist tho
Jay K It really isn’t
You're opening lines always cracks me up 😂
In this day and age when there is video of everything you force your viewers to watch you speak into a mic and read press clippings as you ramble on about what ifs.
Glad this video is here. What almost nobody knows is why vizquel is so mad at Mesa. Back in the 90's I worked with this girl who said she was a Indians groupie. Nobody believed her. She said we should meet her up at the bar and she will show us. To our surprise Mesa walks in with a few other players. Mesa would get so drunk and out of hand. Other players would have a few and leave, not Mesa. Mesa did this every night. He acted like he didn't care about baseball. With all eyes on Cleveland at the time, why would you even think about being in a bar. That's the reason Vizquel was so pissed. Mesa was just a drunk and losing the game, was the last straw. Who can blame him. Other players were pissed, but not many would show it or talk about it. As a fan and knowing what really went on, I'm still pissed to this day. I can't even begin to think how all the other players felt. I probably would have killed the guy.
I like the “weight classes” reference especially.
You should do the McDavid vs Manning beef, cause that is pretty interesting
‘The entire colts organization’ vs. the ‘New England patriots’
This. It is overlooked by many, I think, that the VP who really drove the fraud that was the Deflategate accusations, MikeKensil, was a former Colts executive.
To understand we need to rewind, baseball was invented in 1839.
In a 2006 ESPN article, Tim Kurkjian wrote about the baseball beanball. A Hard Game Played By Hard Men. Loved it. It really made clear the old-school revenge culture of the beanball.
Love this video series.
I wish that more pitchers had that level of follow through.
Mesa prepping to throw one at the host’s back.
great stuff
Madison Bumgartner and Yasiel Puig
Wow..the little captions are REALLY bad. I honestly thought SB Nation was above this.
Well they are run by vox so...
Lmao @ the guess what I have behind my back pic
I’m watching this video dying laughing
As a Phillies fan I remember Jose Mesa very well. He was with the team well before their 5 straight division titles which brought them a championship. However he was there right as they were getting competitive again after years of bottom feeding. Those were some fun teams. He actually did come back to the team when they won thier first division title in 2007 but he wasn't a closer anymore and was well past his prime by then.
Aikman vs Skip Bayless
Ironic that they're co workers now.
As a Mariners fan...this is pretty funny lol I watched Mesa blow alota games
Does anyone know where I can find the song/piece with the violin that plays for the first minute or so of this video?
Gotta do Draymond vs Tristian soon
It’s crazy some of these baseball beefs Cleveland is always mentioned
Gotta respect a guy who is true to his word. Mesa said he was gonna hit him whenever he saw him and that's exactly what he did. Omar deserved it too. It's like blaming the kicker for losing a football game. Seven games, dozens of innings, and it's all Mesa's fault. Okaaaaaay.
But Vizquel didn't blame anything on him. Just said that he wasn't in the game, not that it was all his fault. The beef was started by him goofing around in practice and Mesa, being a mental midget, going ballistic and threatening to hit his then own teammate the next time he crossed paths with him and the book was made AFTER he hit him the first time. The dude had already threatened to, and hit him well before Vizquel had even said one word about him.
If you're siding with Mesa then I'd wager you're a loony too.
Well, when your one job is to perform in clutch, high-pressure situations, you should probably not fail at it. Not saying it was ONLY his fault, but he still failed his one job.
I know you don't do too many on soccer but Roy Keane vs Patrick Vieira is one of the greatest competitive beefs ever. Exists purely on the basis of two phenomenal players playing for the two main competitors for the title, who wouldn't take any bs. It's a beef that defined an era in soccer
Huge tribe fan and I hate Mesa cuz he blew the 97 world series but it wouldn't have mattered cuz the whole team was on PEDS
Caden Kolesar Love Hurts 😔🤘🏿
As was probably 70 percent of baseball then
It's not worth hating Mesa. Look - I grew up with the Red Sox, but I never hated Buckner (or Schiraldi or any of the others who contributed to that loss). We've got to learn to understand that losing the World Series is still a sign of excellent play. Enjoy the good times.
@@roguishpaladin umm he also sucked after 2-3 years and hit Omar Vizquel everytime they faced
Mike Ditka vs Buddy Ryan
Sam Ortmann Buddy Ryan vs. Kevin Gilbride lol
If you want to update this, there is a podcast where Mesa is talking about this
7:02 Rest in Pitches, my dude.
I want to see the beef history of Bryce Harper and Hunter Strickland
Your winner!!!
More hockey team beefs, Calgary and Edmonton, Montreal and Toronto, Montreal and Boston, Philadelphia and Pittsburg
Mid 90s Indians were a powerhouse that is still underrated.
in retrospect, mesa probably should have thrown a few more baseballs at vizquel
I was looking for beef hysterectomy. I'll see myself out.
Could you at least please include some footage..
I don't care for baseball or baseball beef. I will still watch only because I like watching vids about beef.
but no footage of the at bats?
deep rewind of the rigged nba game. 2002 kings lakers
Jose Mesa: A baby and a failure that took out his aggression for being so on the field.
I think "Notre Dame vs Miami (FL)" Beef History would be fun!
Welcome back.
Do Real Madrid-Barcelona during the Pep-Mourinho years. That one is a beef for the football ages.
Can you imagine what Vizquel would have written about Neftali Feliz and other pitchers if he played for Texas vs St Loius WS?
I had two coworkers who bet that series and we worked the night of game 6. The ranger fan tells the other guy to just pay him since we were off for the next two days and the game was basically over. So dude gives him the money and I’m like the games not over. Anyway we’re off two days like I said so when we come back the series was over and the rangers fan paid him back and the money he owed. 😂
Yoyoyo you should do a beef history about Shaq and Javale McGee. There's some really funny stuff going on with them, and why the beef ended is hilarious
could this guy keep doing the rewind videos too, please?
Wow great video!
I gotta say, I understand Mesa's side. I mean it shouldn't have gone on for so long but when you have something like being the sole reason you don't have a championship in your book and people are goofing about it...I'd throw things at people too.
As a Tribe fan, I'll never forget that 9th inning. So close, so close... but hey... that's what makes sports great right? The drama.
Vizquel is my favorite coach on my hometown Tigers
I had never considered Beeves to be the plural of Beef until watching the end of this video.
I forgot how close the Indians were in 97, as a Cards fan all I remember of close calls was Game 6 and how they persevered
Broke my heart. Some of buddies actually cried and wanted to kill “Joe Table”
jeff kent/Bonds
Vizquel and Damon got so damn close to 3,000 hits...
Waiting for the "Jack Eichel vs The City of Buffalo" beef history
You should Patrick Roy and Jermey Roenick
Dwayne McLaughlin I'd rather see Roenick vs Milbury. Maybe it could be a two for one.
PLEASE do a beef history of Jose Bautista vs everybody, or at least vs the Rangers
You should look at AMA supercross, there's a lottttt of beef there, James Stewart and Chad reed, Ryan Villapoto and the Allessi's, James stewart and Ricky Carmichael, and so on