By Request: Sebenza Smoothness Mod ******Attempt at Your Own Risk******
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ค. 2012
- DISCLAIMER:
This trick works, and it's not hard to do, but you do run the risk of screwing your knife up. If you do not have the tools needed to attempt this, then don't try it! Likewise, if you're not mechanically adept, don't attempt this.
I, nor Chris Reeve Knives, can or will be held responsible for any damage you may incur by attempting this technique. Chris Reeve Knives does not condone behavior such at this, and may or may not cover damages which are a result of attempting this. In other words, I'm not sure CRK would fix your knife in the event that you screw it up, even if you pay them to.
Presumably the excess width of the washers is to allow for wear over time. So basically you're prematurely wearing your washers to the point of "worn out". Well done
dougal445 worn in*
I doubt it can get too worn out. The most it can wear is to the point of being flush with the pivot bushing, which would be just fine. anything more would introduce blade play. But I don't think it can wear past the pivot bushing because at that point the liners wouldn't be putting any pressure on the washers, so there wouldn't be any friction to cause further wear.
In the video he recommends thinning the washers just short of becoming flush with the pivot bushing, so I don't see a problem.
A huge thanks for this video man, my small sebenza was pretty much unusable from the factory and had been relegated to life in drawer. It really chewed thumbs before this mod, I didn't take it quite as far as yours but it is now piston smooth.
This was amazing and really helped me out. Taking your time and being patient is the key.
My Umnumzaan is smooth and easy to flick open and almost drop shut close.
Just did this following your video. Big difference. Thanks!
awesome vid, thanks for taking the time to make it!
Worked like a charm, thanks man.
Excellent tutorial ! Thanks for sharing.
Excellent! Super idea. Clearly communicated. Thanks for posting this.
I would wait for the knife to break in , but this is a good tutorial for those who want smoothness rite away
This is an awesome vid ... i love it. thx for all the great info
9 years later... thank you for this, it worked perfectly.
Awesome, glad to hear it!
Excellent vid and info. Just what I needed for my brand new Inkosi.
Be careful, go slow, check often. It’ll work great!
very interesting i think ill try this thanks for the idea as always keep up the good videos
I definitely want to try this! I own a older Sebenza that has solid washers, but I don't think that would make any difference though.
That is by design. Instead of needing locktite to keep the screws tight, CRK designed the screws to gall (stick) against the Ti when tightened to prevent them from loosening. Ingenious feature.
I took mine apart and it did make it substantially smoother, I probably could have taken the washers down a little farther but I knew I was treading on thin ice so I stopped where I did. It worked out good and thanks for the info.
Very cool trick and video!
Hey man, I plan on doing this mod to my Sebenza as soon as my ordered micrometer comes in. So, I'm sure that the thickness of the washers differs slightly on most 21's. So, am I correct to assume that the washer+blade+washer thickness needs to be equal to that of the bushing? Or should I do the same as you did and just remove .01 mm from my washers?
I did the mod, only I just polished the washers with three diffrent strops coarse, fine, and ultra fine.Put the knife back togehter and WOW huge diffrence. Thanks a bunch keep up the good work. I do have a request I saw in one of your previous vid's that you were digging the insingo. I too dig the insingo I have a large and small both s35vn would love to see the rope test to see if they differ from the regular sebenza. thanks again great video.
Worked great!
What if you just polished (stropped) the washers without sanding? What about just stropping both sides of the washers? What about stropping with .025 diamond? Would that help?
Can anything be done to lighten up the lockbar force, to make it easier to disengage lockup?
So opening and closing the knife multiple times would get the same affect without possibility of screwing up your knife
Exactly
The smalls are sweet, love em!
At over $400 you would think that they would make sure that this "feature" is already smooth as can be.
ikr? how much extra work would the factory workers have to do to just lightly strop each washer before assembly? took this guy 30 seconds.
I think they won't do that for washer wear down by using is naturally?
They actually do do this already at Reeve. They just don’t do it as much, so that the remaining wear on the washers is done by the customer, usually during the first couple weeks. That way they don’t overdo it and negativity affect the knife’s tolerances. What your seeing here in this video is just a way to accelerate the natural breaking in period. It doesn’t mean the knife isn’t properly setup from the factory.
Raj Patel ???
@@roningraves6563 give the man his refund
Swinging freely isn't the goal, the added smoothness is. The knife I did in the video doesn't swing freely, yet it's MUCH smoother than any sebenza I've ever handled, and I've handled hundreds.
@joker42179 Thanks for the comment. Love hearing when this works for someone. Makes the sebenza a whole new knife! :)
Thank you!
Excellent video John, thank you for sharing your knowledge.
I want to buy a Sebenza, but I'm not sure which one to go for the 21 or 25.
Will the tips and tricks you show in this video also apply to the 25?
Yes
If you can't crank it down all the way then your washers are either still a TAD too thick, or one of them is pinched.
Make sure you assembled correctly, and if so take just a TINY bit more off of the washers. Remember, you can always take more off, but you can't add back on.
If you do screw up, you can sand down the bushing ever so slightly to even things back up. :)
Yep polishing the washers alone will definitely make it smoother! It won't do much to the force it takes to open it, but smoother it will be for sure. Awesome!
love the video. could you do a similar one for knives without a bushing like the endura? thanks for showing us!
If you're into precision you can (using your micrometer) measure the tang thickness and pivot bushing length. Then you can subtract the tang thickness from the pivot bushing length then divide that result by 2. That will give you just how much you need take off of each the bronze washers.
Hey whats better CRK grease or nano oil weight 10?
Thank you for posting this. What knife is at the top right of the screen (looks pale green or tan)? Thanks!
I've actually done this to a few PM2's and it worked well. But, in my experience (probably 3/4 of all PM2's I've owned, which is 15+ now) the washers on that PM2 come under sized, which requires the reverse of this. I sand down the bushing instead of the washers to make them fit.
But yea, like you said it will work on any of those knives. With this trick I can make ANY PM2 swing freely without having any blade play. :)
Thank you for this video. Just got a Sebenza and wasnt quite impressed with how smooth it was. After doing this mod I cant seem to put the knife down. It now feels every bit of a $400 knife now. My top washer was 0.042 and the lockside was 0.041. Before if I cranked the pivot down it was just stupid hard to open, now after taking them both down to 0.040 like you advised I can crank down on the pivot and the action is silky smooth and the blade falls free just like yours when unlocked.
0.40 mm
JD
Would just stropping (and not sanding) the the bearings to a mirror finish make the action smoother? I'm afraid of taking too much off when sanding.
Just thought I'd chime in and say I tend to polish all my washers on a strop and it does help but that's on knives like Benchmade and Spyderco.
How do you satin finish the handle?
Video of?
how do you know if the pivot bushing "matters" if it's in backwards? i took mine apart before i watched your vid and seen that it sometimes matters. Also didn't think the screws mattered but i noticed some fit snugger then others. Do you think those matter? if so would you want the tightest or loosest one in the pivot?
Excellent!
I love the Manix2 MoonGlow edition sitting in the corner of this video, I just got one of the first editions EDC Forums, it's a sweet blade. I had to go get mine to play with it while watching this.
You can polish the washers and contact points on the blades of any knife for smoother performace. I wrongly assumed it would be already be done on my hand finished sebenza.
maybe its just me but, i can hear the difference when the lock bar engages.
don't own a Sebenza but i can see this technique being helpfull with other knives.
thanks for sharing
Hey JD,what comes smoothest from the factory,Sebenza or ZT560/561?
Yeah the caliper isn't needed, it's just a precaution I used for demonstration purposes. :)
do i need to measure the washers? or was the for demonstration prosperous only?
Hey John, what calipers are those that you have? Ive been wanting to get a pair of digital ones.
thank you. a few years into knifes and reaching a point of looking hard at Chris Reeve knives. Think you are a very clever dude.
You're very welcome!
great vid
"It's not hard at all, but it leaves you with a result that's pretty amazing." That's not what she said.
Basically did this to my para 2 by shaving down the bushing to get rid of play then polished my washers, blade, and liners around the pivot area. its muuuuuuuch smoother and rock solid now!
Do you think they made the washers slightly bigger because they were correcting for wear over time on the washer? Or was it simply seen as a non-issue for them? I'm not even sure if the washers will wear over time, but that's my first thought.
Very very cool. Common sense after you brought it to light but great job thinking of it.
Isn't part of the draw to CRK the fact that the tolerances are so tight that it's supposed to be extremely smooth? At such a price for a production blade you still have to tinker with, what are you paying for?
ikr? it's so funny crk fans come up with double standards w/ these knives vs other production knives, "Chris Reeves keeps their S30v intentionally soft so you can sharpen in the field easily!"
@@karlizen4990 Aka, "It's not a _flaw..._ it's a _'Feature'."_ ;-p
All of the resistance on my new 31 comes from the lock bar tension. The blade falls freely if I push it out to the point of breaking contact.
Yep some are like that. The 31 pivot is a bit different. This mod doesn’t really apply to the 31 anyway. Glad yours is smooth!
I have done a smoothness mod to the 31, it’s just a different technique.
are you shaving the blade side or other side?
what is that vertical knife in the bottom right corner?
Do you have anything other than opinion to support that teflon isn't as durable as phosphor bronze?
In a lot of "hard use" knives, teflon is used *because* it is so durable and resilient. It also can't be bent rendering it useless, like PB washers can.
I did the mod, mirror polished both sides of the washers, VERY smooth now but I still can't crank down the pivot all the way. Great tutorial because I got a stiff and off-center sebenza.
thank you where should i get a large sebenza 21 from
Could you use a fine ceramic stone instead? I'd think it'd actually be better since the grit pattern is probably more even on the stones than the sandpaper.
I wonder if this would work the same for my orange para 2?? I have a plain black g10/satin blade para that I can crank down the pivot and have it swing freely. But if I do the same to the orange one, its like tightening a normal pivot all the way.
This helped a ton on my 31!
Glad to hear it!
Definitely should have cleaned off those washes, he has contaminated his strop with 2000 grit aluminum oxide.
The edgepro glass will go out of flat if its been used alot to flatten stones.... if I were him I would have been sure to use the side I haven't done any lapping on yet!
I've tried it, and it didn't make any appreciable difference. CRK uses ceramic for their detent, so the lubricity is fairly high in the first place. Once the detent wears a smooth track into the blade (maybe 100 openings) it doesn't get much better, no matter what you do.
So, does CR do this if purchased new? Sore thumb, doesn’t open smoothly at all. A lot of money for a knife that should open smoothly
Well, that’s a hard one to answer. Sometimes they’re glass smooth, sometimes they aren’t. Many of the ones that aren’t smooth benefit a lot from being taken apart, cleaned, and relubed with CRK grease. I’d try that first.
I don't own a Sebenza but this is a great video! : )
@nemesisazn I have, didn't seem to do much on the sebenza. There isn't much pinch pressure exerted by the washers, it's mostly all absorbed by the bushing. :)
Exactly! ..another cool thing about owning high end knives is getting to tinker with them. Did you get my pm btw?
Nice vid, I think I might just strop all of my washers. I know some of my spyderco's are a little rough looking.
I polish all my washers as some come with burrs on them. Great video.
Ah, I was close!....kind of...not really. Great vid, I am always doing this kind of stuff to my knives.
how is the in pocket retention after this mod?
@PersonalDefense Haha thanks for stopping by brother!
Why does the screw make that snap when you unscrew it?
I have alot more respect for the price of these knives after watching how complicated the pivot point is.
@christapherdane It's actually the other way around with the sebenza. Fitting the washers to the bushing is probably 80% of the battle, the polishing is the other 20. I tried just polishing, and it doesn't give nearly the same results as the fitting alone.
@bladeramble Export using QuickTime then upload. I don't use the TH-cam option.
Forgot to say, looseness doesn't really equal smooth. I've handled sebenzas that were really loose, like floppy if you took the pressure off the lock bar. Those floppy knives weren't even close to being as smooth as these are after the treatment. :)
I don't have a seb, but instead I mirror polished the blade side of the washer and the part of the blade that contacts the washer, on my startac umnum..made a huge difference. Feels like its gliding on glass rather than the hydraulic feel it had before
I've done something similar with other knives. A pivot bushing isn't needed to make it smoother. It's just a little different process.
@jdavis882 Why are you not supposed to flick a sebenza open??
Where do I send my sebenza?
hey john can you show your method on a PM2?
Wonder if if would be possible to replace the washer with teflon washers. I think Hinderer has some of the smoothest feeling knives out there and it would be interesting to see some teflon washers on a bushing system. Although they might be too soft and squishy to work.
You could, if you want cheap shitty plastic on your knife.
I assume that while the umnumzaan doesn't have a pivot bushing at least polishing the washers on the strop might increase the smoothness. any other suggestions on smoothing out the umnumzaan anyone?
I wonder if just buffing it on the strop would get a similar result. Also curious how many thousandths of an inch a hundredth of a mm is.
It's 0.39 thousandths of an inch equal one one hundredths of a mm.
I tried just buffing them on a strop. It really didn’t make much difference, if any at all. The strop doesn’t cut aggressively enough so you never really decrease the thickness of the washer. You just polish it up.
It would be SUPER fun to try of telfon washer in a sebenza. I can only imagine how smooth it could be. I think the pivot bushing would accept the compression force before you could squish the washers too badly, given that they are fit correctly of course. It would be fun to try for sure.
I wish someone made Teflon washers for the sebenza
@PlankGFX you realize they arent a special size, roght? Theres several sites that sell them.
Most definitely. :)
Don't you love it? SO fun to change your stuff to make it suit you better.
don't use a circular motion on the washers when sanding , do it like you write the number 8. ( see the CRK visit from blade hq) You will foul up your washers this way.
Yep, figure 8 works better.
Do you do a centering video on the Sabenza?
I can do one. Due to the tolerances it is actually pretty difficult to change the centering on a sebenza, but there are ways. They’re just more involved than typical knives. Thanks for the idea.
Jdavis882 - Knife Sharpening and Reviews that would be great. Mine is pretty centered, but still a bit off to the lock side.
thank you where should i order it from or just pm me with the details thank you
@Daft Slice Perfect. Detent pressure isn't affected. :)
hmmm.... I can see how making the bushing and the washer the same thickness will make the knife more smooth.... That being said, using 2000 grit sandpaper esentially gives the washer a mirror flatness / smoothness especially adding the stropping. The friction loss of the polishing I would say does most of the work.
jdavis! im trying to sharpen my sog flash 2 on my double stuff, and it still dosnt cut paper. i tried everything, the steel is quite soft, i get my delica 4 pretty sharp, but this tanto blade just wont cut, can you do a video on sharpening tantos? any help will do, thanks!
That is exactly what caused the car industry to self destroy. They were arrogant. They knew everything and every body else didn't know shit. They didn't listen, even to their own workers. The Sebenza boys should be thanking you for working out this mod. It makes their knife that much better. I just can't support maufacturers like that. So if they give you a hard time, they can get the good old finger from me.