Top ten reasons NOT to buy an electric vehicle (and why each one is wrong!)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
- Electric vehicles. To buy or not to buy? That is the question! Many of us still labour under prejudices and misperceptions that are years or even decades out of date. Misperceptions that are enthusiastically reinforced by the fossil fuel industry! But with battery prices tumbling and governments around the world now beginning to enact legislation to ban the sale of internal combustion engine cars in the next few years, all the major manufacturers are investing billions in research and development to bring us some spectacular electric choices. In fact there's never been a better time to have a think about EVs.
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I was going to get an electric car but living in a terraced house and no convenient charging stations nearby I opted for an electric bike instead. Nearly done 2000 miles in 10 months, weigh 1 stone less than before and feel better for it.
Walking, biking and public transport is always a better choice of course. But in the USA, none of those are an option in many areas, as the entire country is basically built for car travel only.
@@redbaron6805 Its not just about being built for car's only. What if you have to travel 20 or 30 or more miles to work? Are you willing to peddle these distances, even if you have a separate road built for bikes?
@@asimsparks That is a fair point. Would you bike 20 to 30 miles in heavy rain? Or sweltering heat? Or freezing cold? I'm pretty sure a lot of people wouldn't....
STILL takes more energy to mine the batteries and there's no way of
disposing it, not to mention that there are children in these poor countries who are the miners.
@@mrpmj00 a quick google found companies that claimed they can recycle 90% of the materials in a li-ion battery.
Get up to speed mate.
There are other good unexpected things... I have a Chevy Bolt.
1) you have a full charge every morning. No stopping to fill up.
2) you have almost zero maint. No oil changes, fuel filter, radiator fluid, spark plugs, transmission fluid, 3 year battery replacement, brake pad replacement, etc...
3) insensitive to altitude. Does not use oxygen. Actually lower drag at altitude helps.
Bad thing...
1) batteries lose range when cold. Heaters. A/C. You might lose 30% range.
That is fine IF you own your own home & can afford a 240V outlet addition.
Most people can't afford to own a home, their RENTERS, most are also middle to low income so even owning an EV could be out of their reach & how many low income housing units will have EV charging stations?
EV's cannot be scaled up enough to replace ICE vehicles due to the limits of essential raw materials, hybrids will be more popular than EV's for the lower initial costs, longer range & ease of filling up a fuel tank compaired to a large battery pack.
Jobs that need vehicles that can go long distances with heavy loads & mining equipment will remain fossil fueled until the affordable oil runs out.
@@sheilachambers6671 sadly some of that is not really the cars problem, but a society problem .. especially as we continue to move towards automation where people need not apply... but that said, assuming we can get past the initial cost, electric vehicles are actually far better for low income simply because they cost 1/10th to operate that an ICEV does. And really the answer is quite clear... used vehicles. Just like today, low income families do not, typically, buy a brand new vehicle, so why expect them to with EVs? And you make it sound like 240V charging is stupidly high. Every house I've lived in, the electic panel was in the garage, making the cost to install very minimal. Two of the houses I lived in already had an electric clothes dryer outlet that could be utilized. But yes, ultimately we will need to shift building codes and minds that we need to include such in new construction, and tax write-offs to install in existing structures. But even with 120V charging, the average driver can keep their car charged over the week. So all of this is really short-sighted.
@@sheilachambers6671 big mining equipment is going EV. They have been diesel/electric hybrids for years.
@@sheilachambers6671 It depends. One can buy a used Leaf for well under 10k these days or a 'just off lease' 2-3 year old one for 14-15k. I'm getting along fine charging mine on level 1 chargers over night and I'm told by the EV dealer that's what 85% or more do and it works just fine. Other people can charge at work while they park. I have found a number of places that let me charge in their lot for the cost of the power in place of the usual parking fee which means I charge my car and park for less than it costs me to park my old ICE car. And I get a great parking space too.
EV's are less expensive to own today than an ICE vehicle and soon the sticker prices of EV's will be less than that of ICE vehicles. It will take some time for people to make the switch of course and some vehicles, as you point out, will take more advancements before it's practical. It's happening quickly. Give one a test drive if you can or get a ride in one from a friend. I think you will be amazed.
It takes all day to “fill up”. Long distance trips (anything over 50-100 miles) will require overnight stay at a hotel with chargers. More than a few cars may mean several overnight stays before you can proceed while you wait your turn.
I will say, the aftermarket repairs can be a real pain for EVs in many parts of the world, but as time goes on, as long as the government doesn't allow monopolies on repairs, it should improve.
Let's see 20 moving parts compared to 2000 yeah that's an incredibly small actual non existing problem that must be petroleum indoctrinated BS!
@@TheLosamatic ?? I don't even like most car companies. I'm just stating genuine concerns of long term ev ownership. But no we can't have those i guess. Standards are for traitors! 😂
tesla 16k battery replacement fixed for 700 lol
actually, EVs will be more reliable and easier to fix:
You don't need a motorist or a specialist on gearboxes, only electrician, and if one thinks that EVs are far more complicated than ICE electrically - oh boy, have you seen all those sensors, ECUs and more?
I bet my not yet bought AV Receiver that in a couple of years, once the warranty wares off - one could get an EV fixed far easier than an ICE and will find them more reliable.
@@cafe88racer53 yes indeeedy
around me (poorest country in europe) people buy damaged cars from US and prefer hybrids - if done by "our specialists", it is quite cheap to have a battery module fixed.
where to get spare parts? that totaled car that is sold for pennies is a great resource of spares.
Just have to say incredible job on the video editing - synchronisation between the "twins" was absolutely bang on!
Agreed. Awesome job, very entertaining :D
Perfect editing lol
Not to mention regenerative braking...one of the coolest things about an EV.
Good point, well made Richard! :-)
@Mark Prendergast Not at all, it works any time you're not on the accelerator, like coasting along on a mild downgrade generating electricity at 70 mph. I love it.
@Mark Prendergast Jokes on you pal. 300km is a fair bit of open road
@Mark Prendergast Sorry to tax your massive intellect, but when you coast down a hill with an ICE vehicle it doesn't put gas back into the tank. Regenerative braking charges the battery, it turns the electric motors into generators, so when you coast it charges the battery. A Tesla going up and down Mount Washington had the same use of electricity as driving along at 55 mph. Compare that with your ICE vehicle. It's not free energy, it's recapturing about 90% of the energy already expended going up the mountain.
@Mark Prendergast It's called kinetic energy Einstein. The moving vehicle contains all the energy used to put it into motion, minus mechanical and wind friction. On an EV the electric motors can be energized and driven by the wheels, which generates electricity just like a windmill, and that power recharges the battery with about 90% of the energy it takes to get the car moving. Coasting only generates a few KW, but that still adds to the range, and when you use the regenerative "brakes" it produces a ton of power, like 75 or 80KW. I only use the mechanical brakes to hold the car still at a stop, and if I have to brake really hard.
Electric cars are fine, but I hope more people start using electric bikes too. I have one and I love it, and it makes a lot of trips doable by bike that normally I would have to drive for.
I want an electric motorcycle - 250+km range at "a brisk pace" is essential though.
When we see 2x the current battery density (or ideally better) it should be doable properly.
mabersold Electric motorcycle but not bicycle
You must be a little kid visiting your buddies. I literally never drive anywhere that I don't use the storage space in my car that would greatly exceed the grocery bag storage of a bicycle.
I'd be worried of bike theft tho
mabersold umm bikes are powered by people. The waste no energy but human energy
1: Not enough choice.
Shows a list of cars from evrater.com which has 24 models world wide of which only 17 is available in both EU and US, some of which you have to be really lucky to be able to walk in from the street to buy as there are long waiting lists, to me it seems like choice is rather limited compared to ICE cars after all.
And apparently "Just Have a Think" has the same opinion since it is needed to highlight the large number of cars currently in development, it is like admitting "yes the current selection is crap, but soon there will be more to choose from".
There is no doubt that in a few years there will be plenty of choice, but as of 2019, not so much.
2: Too expensive.
While TCO is important, initial purchase price can for many people be prohibitive for general EV adoption.
And again touching on the prediction that EVs will become less expensive in the future only shows that in 2019 EVs are too expensive to buy (not TCO), or else there would be no need to state this.
3. Still using coal.
On this one I agree, even though if all electricity was generated using fossil fuel and then used in an EV, there is no doubt centralized electricity production will be far more effective that putting fossil fuel in an ICE to convert it to motion.
4. The grid will collapse.
This will highly depend on the demand for simultaneous fast at home charging, if a significant part of car owners shift to EVs and will want to charge at home over night with e.g. 11 or 22kW charging, the power grid in many countries WILL need upgrading.
In Denmark where I all a standard house has available is a total of 22kW peak load. Having a large portion of car owners wanting even 11kW sustained load on top of their domestic electricity needs will definitely put a strain on the power grid.
Just because a part of the grid has 1000 houses with 22kW peak load in fusing each doesn’t mean this part of the grid is designed to go anywhere near 1000x 22kW sustained load.
So yes, if no investments are made in the power grid it will most likely collapse due to EVs.
5. Range anxiety.
Even though EVs now have acceptable range for most people, there is no denying that it is far cheaper and easier to find an ICE powered vehicle suited for really long distances.
It will likely get better in the future, but again, the future is not now.
6. No charging infrastructure.
Here it would have been nice to see a comparison of number of gas stations to number of fast chargers.
No doubt the EV infrastructure is getting much better and fast, but still can’t compare to petrol/diesel infrastructure.
And there are still some regions outside larger cities where charging options are very limited.
7. Charging takes too long.
If you expect to be able to charge your vehicles range from 10% to 100% in the same time it takes to fill a tank of petrol or diesel, then yes it takes too long.
But nowadays fast chargers are finally fast, meaning you can get 2-300 km of range in half an hour, but it will still take a change of habit for those driving longer than the range of the battery, in other words possible but not necessarily convenient.
8. No garage or driveway.
You will charge up when you are out? Despite it still takes way longer than to fill up with petrol or diesel, and that the range of a typical EV is much less than that of a typical ICE vehicle, meaning when you are out charging will have to happen a lot more often than filling up with petrol or diesel?
For people with no garage or driveway there is a long way until an EV will be a convenient choice.
9. Batteries need replacing.
Despite the fact that batteries will lose range over time, experience show that this effect is not as prominent as feared by many, and +10-year-old EVs with diminished range because of battery degradation will still be relevant on the used car marked as an alternative to cheap old ICE vehicles.
A battery pack needing replacement in an EV will likely be as rare in the real world as an ICE engine needing replacement.
These comments come, not from someone who doesn’t like EVs, but from someone currently researching and planning to buy an EV (Tesla Model 3 SR+).
I just think that it is still important to acknowledge the shortcomings of EVs in todays world, rather than to just push for widespread and unenlightened adoption of EVs, as this will very likely lead to many people having a bad experience with buying and owning and EV.
Excellent "realistic" response
One could say the presentation is aimed at making us think about our next cars, yes it is early days and we can think of the current crop of EVs as rather like 1910 ICEs with cars aimed at the very rich and the green sandaled, but next year some middle of the road vehicles arrive and ultimately it's all pushing in the right direction.
That is a very objective summation. There is one thing I would like to point out regarding your comment "A battery pack needing replacement in an EV will likely be as rare in the real world as an ICE engine needing replacement."
As present there are many companies making a very good living by purely catering to this the market of replacing battery packs for EVs and Hybrids. The point is, it is not super rare.
Buy the Tesla M3 SR+ and come back in 1 y with feedback. Most of your worries will go away.
@@colorrage
Where do you suggest I charge it on the trip from Perth to Melbourne?
The electric cost tells us strictly about the past cost of an electric. Norway, for example, *had* free electricity for electric cars but not free petrol for ICE cars - but none of these countries promise to continue that policy after *you* have bought *your* car
and somebody has to pay for developping the electric production and distribution. This will have an impact on the price of the kWh.
@@joker_g7337 We already have electric distribution and production in most countries. The existing plants are mostly idle at night, so they sell you cheap excess capacity to charge your car. If anything, it should make the plants more efficient as the utilization is better, which should translate to cheaper power if anything.
Not sure what "past cost of electric" means. Electricity is sold by the kWh. Electricity prices are actually extremely stable, and demand curves are flattened by using TOU pricing.
There is a reason electricity is cheaper at night, because there is lower demand. With wind power, that surplus electricity is even wasteful until storage improves. There is no question that electric cars make the grid better and more efficient, not the other way around.
Ecotricity in UK installed car charging points on UK motorway services, and it was all free. Once people got encouraged, and enough people bought electric cars, and started using their chargers, they stopped free use of their chargers, and now people have to pay full whac. The only way electric cars running costs are less than petrol or diesel car is, if you charge your car at home. All payed charging points charge 3 times that of your domestic electricity.
No electricity for electric cars is not free here in general in Norway. some charging stations are free. Some communities where there is paid to park. let you charge for free there. some you need to pay for the electricity but then the parking is free. toll roads were free But now they are settled and decided that toll roads for EV cost 50% and that is how it will stay. but the biggest thing that makes Norwegians drive electric cars is that the first time sales tax on new cars do not apply for electric vehicles which makes buying price of an electric car at roughly the same price as an ICE car
I like electric cars and wish I could have one but
1- my budget is under 5k
2- i live in a rented flat and can't charge at home
3- i live in Scotland and like to drive out into the country for miles and miles with no hope of charging
Source required. Your irrelevant opinion is irrelevant.
@@UTUBESUCK666 . Your comment is typical of eco-loons.
why not start on zap map and look at the chargers you can use were you live and were you want to go
in scotland you would be using " charge your car scotland "
the only car you can get under 5k is a leaf
I bought a 2016 Leaf for just over £6k. Maintenance of electric cars is cheaper than petrol cars plus most chargers in Scotland are free. Based on the lower running costs, maybe you could increase your purchase price just a bit. It also depends if there are chargers in the country areas you want to visit.
@@davidsworld5837 my neck of the woods (Milwaukee, WI) is still woefully underserved in terms of access to chargers. No outlets at my apartment...no outlet at my work...and no outlets at the places I would normally do grocery shopping. Until they get charging sorted out around her, EVs are a non-starter.
Real reasons NOT to buy an electric car (today):
1. There is no real option for a car between $15-25000
2. Electric cars are getting better and cheaper the longer you wait.
3. If you dont own your own house you cant charge your car every night.
4. The used market is not as widely available as ICE cars therefor prices are still high.
5. Insurance is high mostly. (May change)
6. Batteries degenerate and you need to "take care" of your battery for it to last longer.
7. Charging can be very slow with some older models, and there no quick option if you are in a hurry.
8. You need to plan ahead on longer trips and make sure there are supported chargers on the route.
9. I'm struggling to come up with more, I do really want an electric car.
@knowledge share No it's NOT. I drove a Toyota Prius and had to replace the battery after just 5 years on the road (I usually keep my cars for 10 years). It was cheaper to trade it in on a 4 cylinder gasser than replace that battery pack. The thing had absolutely NO RANGE once the temperature dropped below 35F (which is about 4 months in NW PA) either.
@@swaghauler8334 How does a hybrid run out of range? Fuel economy might suffer if the battery isn't working but the car should still run on gas.
@@swaghauler8334weren't they NiMH batteries? Lithium batteries last much longer and degrade very slowly. I believe the newer Prius has lithium battery.
@@strayreborn5384 I don't know. All I know is that I hated that car. Plus, I like to wrench on my own vehicles. You couldn't even change the oil on a Prius without voiding the warranty.
@@aftonline Putting gas in a Prius defeats the whole purpose of owning it in the first place. Once the battery started failing, I was getting around 30 MPG using gas. I bought a Ford Fusion with the Ecoboost and get THE SAME GAS MILEAGE from a much bigger and more comfortable car. To add insult to injury, I usually buy a car new and run it for a decade until the wheels fall off. That's the only REAL WAY to get the total value out of a vehicle. So many things were failing on the Prius that it became too expensive to inspect it every year.
There are UK tariffs as low as 4 hours overnight for 5p/kWh. 35p/kWh is at the upper end of rapid charge costs
@mandellorian "What" is a commercial power point? Noone mentioned commercial power points, why are you? Business rate are not higher, they are more variable. Domestic users can get these rates too, as standard fixed rate was suitable for most people in the past but if you can go heavy use at niight like if you have electrical heating or vehicle charging you benefit from a variable tarif. In future smart grid will be even more dynamic, weather dependant etc.
The best reason I know for not buying an electric car is that I bought a Peugeot 306 estate two litre turbo diesel for one thousand five hundred pounds (£1500) with a credit card. It lasted four and a half years and I only got rid of it because I moved to Serbia. It used 3.6 litres per 100km (and only half of the regular journey was motorway), that's not the manufacturer's data which is actually 4.0, I measured it. Typical fill time from empty to full was 5 minutes and the range was well over 1000km. The acceleration was 'plenty' and the top speed was 'I don't know' but beyond 140 km/hr. That car carried 1000 bottles of beer from Frankfurt to Exmouth on one tank, several times. My usage was 15 000 km per year over four + years. Maintenance costs were less than £400 a year.
Could you please suggest an electric car that can compete, in the $3000 range? I'm not holding my breath.
True, even second hand BEV cars hold their value. But one day there will be very few ICE cars to buy second hand as production of new ones are phased out. What that will do their value I can't predict, but fossil fuels will become more expensive as the demand decreases, supply decreases and the infrastructure and logistics to support them dwindle. We are at the cusp when having an ICE car, either new or second hand compared to a BEV is open to question. There are companies springing up to convert classic cars to BEV, I may yet live to see open top MGs and Triumphs running silently, the days of seeing one of these at the roadside with steam coming out of the bonnet would be a thing of the past.
Yeah I agree there are a lot of glib answers in this video and in all BEV comparisons. But certainly the wind is blowing towards BEV, and in future your argument will not apply anymore. But for now I agree that it does.
@@jamesrempel8522 Certainly one day we'll change how we fuel our transport just like the way heavy goods moved away from petrol when Diesel engines were invented. But I don't see why it should be batteries. In fact battery cars seem pretty bad from all angles, including , and maybe especially, the environmental one.
I had a Few Peugeot diesels. All excellent vehicles (apart from electrical faults) They got a stinking press thanks to Jeremy Clarkson. Might have been something to do with payments from Peugeot, drying up, allegedly.
@@Denis-tg6jw Now that you mention it I did have a problem with the brake lights staying on and it was a proper nightmare for the mechanic to fix. He had to use epoxy to keep the switch in place because it was never going to work as designed. That was the only real gripe though. I'd recommend them to anyone. I didn't know about Clarkson though. Maybe he did me a favour and that's why I got it cheap.
This is a interesting way to motivate people. Keep it up 👍👍👍.
I'm from India and our government is putting lots of effort to promote EVs and renewable energy sources in it's second term budget.
@@VeganSemihCyprus33 Thanks for being rather pesimistic than embracing that dirty innovation. I know some people are doing greedy business turning people toward electrification away from fossil industries, while some are happy enough doing great service to humanity by bashing them. Cheers mate.
I'm from the US and our current government is doing the opposite. They are pushing coal, oil, and gas.
@Tony P
Yeah "Darth Trump"
But really it wont work, it is simply to expensive, in the end economy wins.
Today in much of the world wind and solar is much more economic.
As for oil…. it will soon not be possible to extract out of pure physics…
It simply is E-ROI "rate of return on extraction"
If it takes more energy to extract the oil than the oil provides it is not possible, no matter what oil price.
In the 1950's the E-ROI was 60x now it is around 10x and dropping fast.
Although I suspect that first to go will be the financing of prospecting, when financing stops it will stop.
Already today more is invested in renewables than fossil fuels in regards to energy production.
@@tony_25or6to4 And if you build a HUGE Fin house you get to have the poor pay your taxes, they call it abatement......progressive sounding word.
@@VeganSemihCyprus33 Correct, capitalism only works when it is tightly controlled which governments usually fail to do, however governments can be pushed into giving some incentives to kick start certain things, with the result that we now have the situation where renewable energy is cheaper to produce than fossil fuel energy resulting in more investment in renewable energy (wind and solar) and the switching off of fossil fuel plants and the halt in investment in nuclear.
I work for major German manufacturer & biggest mark up is replacement oil from servicing. They are concerned they cannot find the margin from other returns. I also ride a bike & combustion cars stink!
You work for a major manufacturer in manufacturing or at the dealer level?
@@RasheedKhan-he6xx Dealers are screwed, they've been knocking the price of car down for decades while making the money back on servicing, hence the oil markup. Nevermind that servicing is just stupidly expensive. The need to charge 1000s margin on the car to make up for their shiny suits and showrooms.
@@tonystanley5337 yes but its our own fault for wanting to pay more if a used car has 'dealer service history'.
@@tonystanley5337 They'll make the money by charging more for cars and locking their EV cars to dealer-only maintenance.
@@dallysinghson5569 Unfortunately thats illegal in most countries, but what I have seen is that companies like Lexus are offering battery warranty extensions if you service at the dealer. This seems also illegal anti-competitive offers but just in a new way that's less obvious and regulators are not aware of it or don't care.
The twins are so polite to each other 🤣
Don’t confuse politeness with snarkiness ... Proper Englishmen do snarky so well ...
Excellent presentation. I worked at an oil company for 35 years but despite having a petrol station discount, I cycled to work about 80% of the time only driving in when it was really wet, super hot or when I needed to travel outside the immediate area! I typically went for 4x4 petrol wagons (as we visited the mountains regularly) and my wife liked something a bit more sporty. However, a couple of years before I retired I sold the wagon and leased a 2014 BMW i3 pure electric along with installing a level 2 charger in the garage using EV supported discounted night/weekend electricity rates.
As EV converts now we never looked back, when the lease ran out I bought a 250 mile range 2018 Chevy Bolt (with a DC Fast Charge port) and when my wife sold her petrol car last week, she took over driving the Bolt so I bought a used 2013 Fiat 500e with a 90 mile range for a mere $5000. Since the Fiat battery has a 10 year 100K warranty we should be good on that until 2023 and if the projections are correct we could simply replace the battery pack for half what today's costs are. We considered buying a Tesla after test driving a model S but did not want to pay over twice the cost of the Bolt for one or missing out on the tax break by buying a well used model S, the only model 3s at the time were the fully equipped ones for slightly less than a base Model S. The final anti-Tesla blow was not wanting to incur the outrageously expensive Tesla insurance premiums (2-3X the cost of insuring a Bolt) in addition to avoiding the many month long waits for Tesla body parts or fittings should there ever be a need.
We have figured out distance travel charging options to allow for trips in line with what we were used to in a petrol car, charging stations (many of them free) are rapidly appearing all over. Certainly a LOT more convenient than alternatives such as the hydrogen fuel cell cars which have virtually no infrastructure yet. I still use my bicycle regularly for grocery runs and hops around town and I can drop the back seats pop the bike in the back of the Bolt or Fiat if I want to go further afield.
Hmm, when I was a student, I bought a 12yo Toyota for $1,400 and put about 140,000 miles on it over the next 10 years. It had 2 major repair/maintenance issues (about $1,000) and insurance was $600 a year. It got about 40 mpg and I sold it for $900.
$1,400 purchase price
$900 sales price
That = $500 for the vehicle
$50/mo for insurance = $6,000 over 10 years
Fuel at $2.20/gallon for 1,166 miles a month at 40mpg on average = $64/mo or $7695 total.
Repairs/maintenance $600 clutch CV joints $400 tires/pads/battery. Oil changes $1,200 total
Total cost to buy and run the car for 140,000 miles = $19,495
Subtract sales price of $900 = $18,595
I traveled 140,000 miles for $18,595. That is less that 15 cents per mile or $155 a month to go anywhere I wanted at any time I wanted, all costs included. I averaged 38.8 miles per day.
Don't get me wrong, I would love electric to be practical. Currently (current, get it :) electric cars can only compare to gasoline cars the first couple of years. When you figure in resale, or buying used and long term costs, electric becomes drastically more expensive.
Yea, you can compare $800-$1,000 a month for new gas vs. new electric but then what.
What about all the students of the world? What about the people that can't, or refuse to pay 10 or 12 grand a year for a car?
shananagans5 it’s gonna take best part of a decade but electric cars will filter down and batteries will be get cheaper last longer and be replaceable, there is no good secondhand car comparison right now, same thing happened when fords first model was compared to a used horse.
@@differenttan7366 Let's not forget that a new ICE car LOSES a huge percentage value as you drive it out of the showroom, therefore many people refuse to buy new cars based on that.
Corporate Knights did a 10 year comparison but ignored the fact that the average person keeps their car for 6 years. The #'s are skewed in favor of electric when 4 extra years are added
@@rogerm3708 All the stats are skewed to favour EV. The range given in this video is bullshit. The actual range is lower, especially in winter. I've looked at Nissan env200 and Renault Kangoo van and done all the numbers. New against new EV can make sense because of subsidies and low EV tariffs. I buy used cars at around £4-5k with low mileage and keep them at least 4 years. The tech for EV will improve and it needs to. Once it's mainstream the tax the government hits the motorist with will switch to EV. The problem with the planet is not so much fossil fuel cars but simple human overpopulation. We are such a cancer on earth that our success is at the expense of other species and the planet as a whole. Cutting our footprint by 30% won't make any difference when population is rising so fast.
@@GaryBox I Agree with most of what you said. I think fossil fuels going forward will always be taxed more and the range thing, having driven a few ev's its similar to any petrol car drive fast and you wont get the range drive carefully and you will. Only on the motorway do you feel cheated i took a 260 mile range car for a long drive to London and back on one charge it managed 200 miles of pure 70 mph motorway driving with only 25 left. worst thing about ev's is the quality of the public recharging infrastructure, poorly maintained, broken connectors, software problems and connectivity issues 1 in 3 attempts to charge isn't straight forward and occasionally just out right fails, Ecotricity being the worst offender. hopefully a temporary situation though.
In the last two weeks, I sold both of my old cars (Toyota Sienna and Kia Sportage) and bought a New Pacifica Pluig-in hybrid and a used 2016 eglof with 12k miles on it. Now my family is driving almost all of our miles on electricity. I love these cars and can't imagine myself ever buying another ICE vehicle. I got higher end amenities for a lot less money with the Pacifica than the ICE version when the 10k federal and state incentives are factored in and these cars cost about 25% for the egolf and 35% for the Pacifica in electricity per mile than my old cars. I'm told my egolf should need tires, wiper fluid and brake pads at 100k miles and that's about it. Solar installer project for my roof is next.
As much as I am against combustion engines (I am driving bycicle or bus and live good with it) I am missing the one and only reason that matters: You need lithium to produce a battery for an electric car. According to my knowledge (which can be wrong of course, but I doubt it. I work for the biggest car company in the world and have a little bit of insider knowledge) there is not enough lithium available to even switch all the cars in Germany alone. Not to mention the cars in the US.
There is also a second reason - very minor to the first one but worth thinking about: every new car costs a lot of energy to produce. According to a study a colleague of mine quoted it would produce less CO2 if we all drive our old cars till they break and then buy a new electrical one then change to new cars immedeatly.
I would really like answers for those two problems.
Thank you. Your channel is amazing, keep up the good work!
When I can replace the 4L diesel engine in my 4WD campervan with a lithium battery motor drive that won't let me down in the Aussie outback, flooded rivers and desert.....currently the solar technology for charging my leisure batteries alone bearly lets me run a fridge full time in the van.
It's a bit hard to carry Jerry cans or 40 gallon drums of electrical energy around in an EV, or cross water ways that fill your vehicle with water mate.
I have a feeling that a lot of the contrary comments weren't written by Australian off roaders.
Horses for courses.
@@walsakaluk1584 That's the weakest argument yet mate. If you are currently carrying around 40gallon drums of petrol/diesel, then you can also bring a solar panel or two. takes a little longer to refill, but it does the same job.
and crossing waterways? give me a break, all of the electrical systems will need to have some kind of waterproofing already because they are designed to be driven on roads in all weather. AND your diesel or petrol engine won't work worth a damn if it gets any water in it either.
It’s ironic that the west is full of young hippie types driving around in their converted campervans preaching to everyone about their environmental impact, when their vans spew out more pollution than any modern car!
The video should be broadcast on terrestrial TV stations across the globe. What is really needed is a robust platform like this to set the record straight on the mass of misinformation out there regarding EVs. Great piece, well done.
I have no car. I get by fine with a couple of e-bikes, a trailer, and a solar charging operation. I have not spent a nickel on gasoline, car insurance, mechanic fees, DMV registration fees for 4 years - basically free transportation. I can charge my lithium battery packs over and over and over again at zero cost from my solar panel and a simple MPPT charge controller. Free transportation at zero emissions. I thumb my nose at the car companies and oil companies that have had their way enslaving you for the last 100 years. ZERO emissions, ZERO transportation cost, better health and less frustration.
Yeah, my buddy liked his beer too🍻 Cheers!
Congratulations
I dont know about your location, but we have something called weather. It sucks to show up at work soaking wet from rain, sweat or snow. E-bikes are also not so practical for hauling kids around and towing a boat to the lake to go waterskiing.
@@michaellowe3665 I also don't know about your location, but there is something called public transportation. And guess what: some of it runs on electric engines. No risk of you getting sweaty to work. Regarding waterskiing, well i guess you are not doing that every day and can rent or borough a car for special occasions.
@@odferreira the nearest public transportation is a 40 min walk. That's typical of suburban areas and less than typical of rural areas. 45% of the people dont live in cities. Cramming everyone into cities would be logistically impossible and ecologically disastrous. Someone has to live where the food is produced and all of the material and energy are mined to maintain the cities. Other people have to live near them to provide goods and services to them as well as transportation of goods into the cities. That public transportation system runs largely on diesel fuel and even those electric powered vehicles run on coal. All of those equations that claim how much more efficient public transportation is are based on full occupancy. Most of the time, its 60 foot bus with 8 people on board spewing diesel exhaust. They also have required licensing and inspection fees that are baked into the price of the bus tickets or subsidized by local taxes. Most of those busses idle for 15 hours a day even when they are not moving. The drivers dont care. They dont pay for the gas. Your ebike is probably the only efficient transportation in a city when it isnt raining or snowing. It uses just a little coal to get you around.
It does not matter what we analyze, the future is in the EV.
About 32 years ago my tiny aero-engineering class was lectured by a visiting professor, who told us the story of how his British design team had sweated to maximise the performance of an aircraft they intended to sell as a military trainer, and as a civilian light aircraft with good aerobatic capability. After all their hard work, the company's board handed the design to an industrial artist/stylist, who promptly reshaped the canopy and tail to make the aircraft look faster. The team was enraged, because the changes actually increased drag, degrading speed and range! In the same vein I watched a documentary about the role of a famous industrial stylist at one of Italy's top supercar manufacturers. He proudly explained how he (ignorantly) distorted the shapes produced by many hours of wind tunnel and CFD research, so that motoring journalists and public would "ooh" and "aah" when they saw the cars, regardless of the fact that he was actually degrading the aerodynamics and handling. I really don't know why I watched the documentary to its end, by by then, far from admiring the man concerned, I felt like shooting both him and the company's board! NO FALSE RADIATOR GRILLES ON ELECTRIC CARS, DAMN IT! (And shoot the boards!) If you can afford it, buy an electric car that was developed as such from scratch, not one based on an existing ICE model. (The weights of batteries and motors must be in the right places!)
"Transport" electrical energy, regardless of how it's generated, will have to be taxed to recover income loss from ICE fuel costs which are taxed.
The roads will not build and maintain themselves.
The per km cost has to be artificially increased in order to provide the carriage ways that EVs still depend on.
Car tax will always exist, the main problems is our emissions.
@@DrumToTheBassWoop yes emissions do need to be reduced. Depending on where and how the electricity is generated will determine whether emissions will be reduced.
A significant portion of fuel cost is tax as well as the registration cost which can and will still apply.
EVs will have to pay a mileage tax as well to compensate for the loss of fuel tax collections.
In NZ this distance excise is paid when diesel cars are registered in addition to the rego and fuel tax...."they" don't like diesels in NZ.
A similar system of actual road use tax will have to be imposed on EVs.
Wow so you get an A+ for imagination in coming up with an EV problem. Of course its completely stupid to think there's a gov't anywhere that has difficulty imposing a new tax!
@@TheLosamatic I wasn't seeking an arbitrary grading from you or anyone.
My comment was a heads up for what will have to come when EV is ubiquitous.
Personally I am in favor of EVs v ICE. ( although I am a diesel fan....grade me on that if that's your yearning) The full cost transition will leave many people disappointed, not with the vehicles, but the external costs that will come.
Your vacuous sarcasm is noted.
if you save money here from no having taxed
you will spend it somewhere else then it will be taxed
After having our 2015 LEAF for 15 months I can say that it's a fun around town car, has required no maintenance at all, hasn't made our electric bill go up to where I'd notice (we have the second cheapest electric rates in the USA via hydro power), and gets me a few minor bragging rights about driving a clean energy vehicle. But overall we aren't saving any money, the car and insurance payment offset any savings from driving our F-150 PU, and from the detailed analysis of the lifetime carbon creation between and ICE and and EV only being 30%, I can say that it is sort of an empty gesture towards saving the planet. Going all EV would still have a major impact on greenhouse gases.
So where does this leave me regarding the LEAF, would I pay $14,100 for another one? No I wouldn't, but now that I have it I'll likely keep it until the wheels fall off due to the rapid and precipitous decline in value every year. And I can charge for free around town many places which gives me an incentive to park it at a charger and go for a long walk during the warmer months, about eight to be exact where I live in the Pacific Northwest.
11th reason not to buy an electric car is close proximity to work and I have a bysicle. There are also many other personal electric and human powered vehicles.
Might work well in a city setting but not for everyone...I live only 4 miles from work but walking or riding a bike is a death sentence. 2 miles on back roads with no sidewalk/bike lane and drivers that think the speed limit is a suggestion, another 2 on the sidewalk where I have been hit while on a bike.
A car is much safer
I live in the most dangerous place in the states to bicycle or walk. Motorcycles are called organ donor kits. There are more cars and old people per capita than anywhere.
If I don't drive, I have to give up all my volunteer work.
At least I drive a hybrid, and I want an EV.
Great video, sir!
I commend that. I’ve even been working on strengthening my thighs to be able to make my bike a more viable primary, it’s an exciting intention.
ArthursHD Great. It is all about selecting the best option. Your fortunate that you can ride a bicycle to work. No use need using a car then. Get some exercise, live longer, and doesn’t pollute.
12th reason is already owning a working ICE car.
absolutely superb video, big thumbs up from a (very happy) Belgian leaf driver!!
Thank you very much foir this very well-though lists of arguments!
However I am missing one reason why not to buy a electric car. In fact it can be reduced to: Why to buy a new car, electric or not?
Keep using its old stuff until the end of life is much more ecological than buying new ones, and this is also true for cars.
So my next car will be electric, but I do not ecpect to buy one in years (even if my actual car is almost 10 years old)
3:40 This is only relevant for anyone who buys the car outright, anyone on lease will pay far more as most leases are only over 3 years not 10 and with the lease amount will be approximately 50% higher than the Petrol/Diesel equivalent, plus the £69/mth charge for the battery, I think you will find these results have been fudged!.
yeah, and if you were going to buy a petrol car, but you would need to say finance the extra money for an electric, therefore you have to factor in the interest on the initial extra cost, ouch. Like a lot of things, it's cheaper for the wealthy and expensive to be poor.
They have taken in every case the way of looking at it that favors electric vehicles. It is not a balanced presentation.
Paul Fadden
Actually when you take the cost of leasing per month and add the low cost of charging the battery, compared to an Internal Combustion vehicle, with a much higher cost of fuel
It works out cheaper per month to lease an Electric car
@@broncosgjn not everything needs to be balanced
the truth isn't always in the middle
the video is not "pros and cons" it's refuting most common arguments
@@oxiosophy There is no requirement for an unbiased content but it would be nice and thank you for pointing out the obvious.
Have you been reading the daily mail? Classic.
Denis Daly
Accurate too (unlike the tabloid).
*Daily Fail
Greetings from southern California! We're taking our Model 3 on a road trip tomorrow!
I completely onboard. My next vehicle will certainly be an EV, likely a Tesla. Good show!
You sir are what the tinternet was built for. Superb info. Best channel I’ve found so far ! Many thanks.
Thanks Bugsy. Very much appreciated :-) All the best. Dave
Actually it was built by the U.S. army to transfer information even if an entire city was wiped out by a nuclear blast. But hey...Tang was invented by NASA and look how great.....Okay, bad example.
@@drmodestoesq That's actually a myth about Tang. Nasa had nothing to do with it.
@@leax_Flame Hey, you're right. Thanks for the heads up. It didn't become popular until the free publicity of the space flights. And one of my heroes Buzz Aldrin said, "Tang sucks."
I love the tinternet.
BTW just wanted to congratulate you on your channel name and your video titles: "Just have a think" "Top ten reasons to NOT buy an electric vehicle ....... (and why each is wrong)". You really got a bunch of people
Great video. I currently have a 9 year old Nissan Qashqai, which is an ICE and I've been happy with it for the past several years, but I know it will need replacing in the not to distant future so I'm soaking up all the information on EVs. It is true that there is a different mindset with an EV. When you are out doing your shopping or in the fast food restaurant, you can stick it on charge at the car park to give it a little boost each time, whereas ICEs you would go and fill up to max every time. Then you raise the point of not having a charger at home in the same way you wouldn't have a petrol/diesel pump at home. That was something I didn't think about!
But will your car have any second hand value? Even might you have to pay to get rid of it?
I've since sold my Qashqai and now I lease a different car
All these fall down to cost. To get the best out of all these, you have to pay out more initially which most people can't afford, so that makes all of these invalid.
I wont buy an electric vehicle because I am trying to live my entire life without owning a car.
Me too, just turned 70..
@@christopherellis2663 congrats. Wish you good health sir.
Me too. I'm 58 and I reckon it's kept me healthier physically and mentally. Plus, cars are ugly, and almost all have my neighbours have turned their front gardens into car parks, so bad news for plants and insects as well as to our eyes! They make the world so very, very ugly!
I don't have a car either and I'm not intending to buy one. I'm delighted to hear there's plenty of folks who think the same way. My hope for this programme is that it may help people who do have cars, and who are perhaps contemplating a new one, to take the electric option much more seriously. All the best. Dave
Stop trying to use my name in youtube Same here, with local shops and online deliveries of groceries and other goods I simply don’t need a car. I also save a significant amount annually because it is one less expense to worry about.
Nice Syncronisation of those two Performances.
Must have been a lot of work.
:)
Thanks Fabian. it took a bit of time, but it was quite an enjoyable learning curve!. Cheers. Dave
@@JustHaveaThink So just how did you pull it off? The timing of when which "ego" got to speak and all...?
@@pHD77 Well...a tightly written script was essential. I filmed the black topped me first, and I had learnt the script, so for that part I silently spoke the words of the white topped me in my head after each of my lines so that I could guess where to react to what the white topped me would be saying later. You'll spot from the video that the white topped me talks a lot more than the black topped me so it was easiest to start this way. Then I edited the black topped me into a single MP4 which I played back on a monitor out of shot so that the white topped me could react exactly on cue. I had markers on each wall in line with the eye line with the other speaker so that I could make sure I was looking in the right direction. Then I just took off the audio of the MP4 from the final edit and cropped one of the videos so it only filled half the screen. Also crucial was to make sure I didn't kick the camera between shoots - that would have completely screwed up the whole thing! :-) Clear as mud! All the best. Dave
@@JustHaveaThink planning and preparation, very good, it turned out great !
This is a fantastic video; well done and well informed. As a new TH-camr I could not help but note, the entire time, the amount of work you put into the creation of the video. All I can say is wow, well done.
Thank you. That's great feedback and very much appreciated. All the best. Dave
Hi David, excellent video which sparked (I run on electricity) a questions: You mention USA and UK charging points currently available and increasing in numbers. I live in central Italy in the countryside where there are no charging points and don't expect these to be installed any time soon. We have a lot of sun here though and we have a approximate 35 m**2 south facing roof. Is it feasible I cover this with solar panels to create my own charging point at home? (assume I use the car for local trips up to 200km's and work from home).
Hi, I live in rural Spain and that is what I do. Sometimes I need to use the electric web if I am not producing enough myself, but that is still cheaper. Panel companies study your need taken on account your km per day and battery on your car
Excellent vid bud! Keep up the great work! 😎🇨🇦
Coming soon, recharge times of a few minutes for 80% of battery full charge. That last 20 % is what takes time. But for 90% of long road trips, fast charging is all that is needed. Add to that, 1000k range may not be that far away.
Hi, This has been my 'go-to' video for quite some time - any chance of an updated version?
Cheers.
I really enjoyed this episode. Thanks.
With electricity supply costs and problems in South Africa I went solar and off grid about 5 yrs ago.
I'm now saving for either an electric car or a kit to convert my old car. Looking forward to that.
In many places in the US, you get paid by the price of the electricity for sale when you supply the grid. So when you get home at 6 pm, until 9 pm you are supplying at peak price because that is peak demand time. Then you charge after midnight until 5 am at the lowest rates of the day. If you only commuted 20 miles that day, you make money by selling most of your remaining charge during peak and recharge at the lowest rate. In that case, your daily commute cost is a negative number of dollars since you are making money from this. It also allows the local utility to put off any additions to its power generating infrastructure so that further keeps costs down. Finally if the majority of vehicles are charging at night, there may be no need to add additional power generation. Locally we have a nuclear power plant that can not turn off at night as well as other similarly constrained sources.
Forgot to mention that gas taxes in the us pay for the roads. So when evs start getting large fleet numbers on the road they will have be taxed more.... No free ride. ...
I think Bernie Sanders has the answer. Wall Street can pay 0.005% tax on each transaction and that will raise $2.5 Trillion in 10 years. They won't even notice!
@@JustHaveaThink good one lol 😜
In many states EVs pay an extra EV fee as part of their annual registration fee. In my state this is $100 and goes into the same fund as gas taxes.
In Europa also electricity is taxed.....even more than petrolgaz in %.
having just returned from florida i thought you didnt pay tax on fuel as it was so cheap its $5.42 a us gallon here and 50% tax
And if you add a few more solar panels to your roof so your home including vehicle charging is 100% solar powered, the cost per distance driven drops a lot more still (amortized over the life of the solar panels including maintenance, solar degradation, inflation, etc).
I have a Zoe EV bought in Oct 2017 that is now on its third traction battery. Not good, so when the warranty expires I am looking at massive expense if this poor performance continues.
I thought the Zoe batteries were mostly leased. The Nissan Leaf/Zoe batteries don't use thermal management. Everyone else does by now, so that explains the short battery life.
Really good summarization of the various points and counterpoints. Had to like it, as I agree 100% with your content (not always the case).
On that last bit at the end: IMO not enough video showing passenger reactions to LATERAL acceleration. After all, most EVs corner extremely well. You could get some especially amusing footage with male and female couples.
Summary?
@@LeastTango ??
Hi guys,
Love the channel and the content, and only just found this video now.
We would love an electric 2nd car here in Australia, but point number 2 in the video is still a valid hurdle.
We currently own an excellent 2016 Mazda2 which has been rolling up about 15,000km per year in mainly short urban trips (perfect EV usage)
However, when I do the sums, without any incentives in Australia for owning an EV, an EV is more than double the price of this car for something in the equivalent class.
(I service it myself as I'm a mechanic, but will assume Mazda's service prices for the below calcs)
The closest match EV in Australia at the time I did the sums was the Renault Zoe at $50k aud....
The Mazda cost us $17,000 drive away.
(can only now be replaced by the next highest level model in the range at $21k)
We have not had to replace any tyres, or additional service items as yet and so has just had basic servicing and fuel as additional costs.
Services are every 10k at an average price of $350
Fuel usage for the life average of the car to date is 5.9lt/100km
In Australia, there are no differences in rego or insurance costs that I'm aware of for ICE or EV vehicles.
The Zoe requires servicing every 15k at $231.... Lord knows what they do for that!
So....
The Mazda sits in the driveway with 70k on the odometer,
$17k purchase price
$2100 in services (7 x)
$5782 fuel (@ $1.40/lt)
= $24,882 for 70k driving
$25000 rounded
Zoe
$50, 000 + insurance and registration
$52k
$924 for service (4 x)
$500?? - Recharge costs
(comes with a free home charger in the deal, unsure of install costs)
Total = $53, 000 rounded
** My infinitely more useful 4x4 diesel Euro5 Nissan Navara dual cab utility is interesting to add here also
New price
$38,600 drive away.
$8820 Fuel to 70k
$1000 (4 x tyres)
$1150 (self service ea 10k)
Total = $49570
This vehicle can go camping, tow a car trailer, drive on Fraser Island's sand beaches etc for 70,000km and still costs less than a Zoe's original purchase price.
We can buy and run 2 x Mazda2s for 70,000km each for the same as 1 x Zoe..... Why?
Battery prices are falling, but that is not being reflected in the list price of the car.
It is going into the auto company's profit margin, as one would expect.
It is unsustainable to subsidise the cost of the cars via tax breaks as we all end up paying for the extra price regardless of whether we buy the car or not.
There's no reason why these cars should cost the astronomical prices they do, not if they are going to be mainstream and replace fossil fueled cars. The general public can't afford them.
(The reason Honda has chosen not to bring in the Honda e to Australia where it would much closer to $60k than $50k here.... also the car I'd love to own)
Still waiting for an affordable, attractive alternative EV to put in the driveway at my house.
Looks to be at least 10 years away from where we are.
Why would the price go down if more people buy it? There’s no reason for the corporations to want less money. The up bidding price argument doesn’t work for consumable goods because buyers don’t actively bid for the price with the seller. The seller sets the price at maximum gain, dependent on income and population count.
@@mookfaru835
Because if the asking price is too high, then the product doesn't sell.
If the seller drops the price, then it will attract more customers to the product and they can sell more with less margin and still make more money.
That's how it works
Lmao great video, love the "alter ego" xD
900,000 kms on an early Tesla Model S Performance 85 is the current record (second battery). I think the car paid for itself a few times now ...
Love the effort of deep research on Evert sujet. But I have noticed a redundent missing part of your pros ans cons vidéos. What about the recourses (materials) issue and the overall environnemental impact of massive electrification (pollution from extraction/ transformation /hard recycling etc..)?
I kind feel that those totipcs are not exhibited enough in the engineer /technophile sphere.
There is pollution from extraction/ transformation /hard recycling etc. from petrol cars?
This part of EVs’ and their production is the elephant in the room.
“But petrol cars have C02 footprint too” is the usual canned response from the EVangelists … still doesn’t answer the question though.
I know that building ANY car has an impact on the environment and maybe EV's more that combustion, for that reason I feel that combustion engine cars should be phased out and not banned. It doesn't make any sense to scrap a perfectly good vehicle to buy an EV.
@@GuillermoLG552 make internal combustion cleaner or fuels cleaner & renewable.
Far more viable than chewing up the very planet we are supposed to be saving.
See Prometheus fuels for a possible future … Tesla & their cult of personality leader are most definitely not the saviour.
The industry should work on wind power with solar power aswell on cars to charge while on the move so as not to rely on the grid completely.
Would love to have an electric car but the price is too high, the cheapest on auto trader is £6.490 I bought my 307 tdi for £300.00 over 3 years ago still going strong, When the manufactures lower the price of new cars then used cars will also become cheaper guess I will have to wait...
Those EVs will be dirt cheap when the battery packs start crapping out in them. Just you wait.
I've never seen anyone look happy when getting out of their car at the gas pump after a long day at work on Friday when they just wanna get home. I've only ever been happy when plugging my EV in at night when I get home
Your mistaking smug for happy. Lol
I’m always happy filling my car up Friday night after a hard days work, as it means I have a full tank of fuel to burn through, over the weekend.😂
Now an electric car u would spend half your Precious weekend waiting for it to charge before, thrashing down country lanes. or don’t people with electric cars do that sort of thing. Probably not thinking about it 😂😂
@@rossharvey0125 nah man, you spend 5 seconds of your time plugging it into the garage wall outlet and letting it charge while you sleep.
The most freedom is no car note.
Very good and useful video! Subscribed! Here and elsewhere, many comments focus on "environmental impact" of manufacturing EV cars,...as if MAKING ICE CARS HAS HAD NO IMPACT ON THE ENVIRONMENT, (and you must include extraction of fossil fuels - remember oil spills? - in that equation as well,...and don't forget Climate Change,....oh yeah,...THAT...)
Climate change. Really?, Instead of tilting at windmills maybe you could influence the tilt of the earth.
What a production! I'm already a convert to EV's but this video is a gem! Nowhere else have I seen such a polished production whilst presented with subtle humour as this.
All I need to say is...SUBSCRIBED!
Thank you Alfred. That's very kind feedback and much appreciated. All the best. Dave
@@JustHaveaThink What a show ... WOW !!! 😄
This is unfair. Let the guy in the black top speak as well.
When your opponent is yourself, the opposing viewpoint won't get the actual time and consideration that it needs.
Brilliantly done video... excellent references to research too. Liked reason no.10.... let’s just say that as a Tesla owner in Sweden, this car gets more looks and positive comments than any other vehicle I’ve owned... I think that my status shot through the roof after getting this incredible beast.
Great video! I'd live an electric car, but I still do have one point of hesitation about them. I live in Alberta, Canada. It can hit -50C here in winter, which is rough even for internal combustion engines. I haven't seen anything on how an electric vehicle will stand up to a Canadian winter. I do see an occasional electric car here, but jusr like Ferraris-- I never see them in winter.
I hear ya. I'm also in Canada where the winters are cold! But my recent experience of buying brand new (fossil fuel) car is that it has already had a couple issues in its very first that have needed service including something major that just shut it down out of nowhere. Probably due to extreme cold, but that's my point - it happens to lots of internal combustion engines too, so how much worse would EVs be or maybe hybrids?
EVs don't use oil, so that could be a savings in maintenance over time. I'm still looking into it by Norway has a pretty high uptake in EVs that people have and they seem to be doing okay with it. If trips are mostly just A to B inside the city EVs in winter may be pretty close to combustion engines, just need to be plugged in at night regularly. Over time, their performance and quality will surely rise for longer trips.
Let's face it, fossil fuel internal combustion engines have had a lot longer to figure out their kinks and EVs haven't had nearly as long, but should still see pretty rapid improvements.
I drove a Nissan leaf 'once' in the winter. The damn thing wouldn't make 20 miles with the 'electric' heater going. It's either freeze to death / make it to you destination. And it had NO A/C !
You need a proper EV, like the Tesla Model 3 with over 300 miles range.
Ramon Zarat still 300 miles is poo my gas guzzling v8 Nissan patrol gets 550miles a tank and takes me 5 minutes to fill and when towing it doesn’t lose over half its range!
The difference with new EV's is night and day though. It's like saying " I won't buy an Iphone 10 because my Iphone 5 is so slow"
Really nice quality and presentation.
i was gonna say
@@VeganSemihCyprus33
You can promote public transport, cycling and no-emission zones. But cars, vans, trucks and busses are not going away soon. Electric vehicles, big and small, maybe are even easier to share and become part of AI automated/self-driving car network.
You could also have mentioned fossil fuel powered airplanes and ships. Or food production and distribution. Or universal health care, or the wealth gap. Or immigration, or equality and universal human rights...
But do you throw these topics into every thread that deals with a single topic?
Bytheway, IMHO there's nothing wrong with using capitalistic mechanisms for now, when you embed them in (or should I say place them under) sensible local, national and international laws and regulations (taxes, incentives, etc) that take care of the negative aspects.
Pure state lead communism won't work, pure free market Capitalism too won't work. You need a combination of both. And ofcourse sensible, wise people/customers.
How do you want to save humanity?
Thanks removing all doubts about my desire to buy electric. There is one type of vehicle you did not discuss in much detail; hybrids and especially used ones that have already had several years of depreciation reducing their cost of acquisition. I'm planning to buy a used Chevy Volt (Opel Ampere in Europe). Here in America I can get one for comfortably under $15,000, often less than $12k. Since it's a series hybrid it performs better than most hybrids and in fact if it's kept fully charged and driven only short distances it can indeed function as a fully electric vehicle- but with a handy built in generator for extended trips! My only frustration is that I've grown to love the versatility of my minivan so I'll probably keep it as a second vehicle. Thanks for the highly informative program, cheers!
Improve bike paths in cities. Providing overhead covered bike paths would cut down journey times, keep people safe and dry and encourage more people to travel by e-bike. Make a type of roller coaster construction holding up somewhat lightweight e-bike way's (e-ways) between major housing areas, work places and shopping places throughout cities. A vision of the future. Cutting many corners out, traffic and traffic lights out and eliminating risk and bad weather would be revolutionary. Elevated bike paths could cut through buildings and have stop offs at shops, places of interest and eateries.
What was not talked about is that ICE cars produce an enormous amount of heat; on average 15%, for larger cars like SUV's, to max 30% for small cars, of the fuel burned is used for propulsion of the car. The rest, 70 to 85% is vented away as heat through the radiator. Multiply that by the total number of cars in the world, it becomes a serious planet warming source. Heat produced by electric motors and batteries if pushed hard, is minimal to negligible in comparison.
Another thought, purely mine, is that you cannot hold a car manufacturer responsible for the "fuel" of an electric car, just as car manufacturers do not get involved in the fuel proces/mining for ICE cars. So why is this topic always used as a negative point for BEV vehicles? And those who charge at home from their solar panels, like me, rarely charge enroute anyway.
That is the primary reason why electric cars are 4x to 5x more efficient per mile. And also the reason why electric cars have shorter range in the winter, as some of that waste heat ICE cars generate can be used to heat the cabin in the wintertime, while electric cars don't have as many waste heat sources to tap into.
Electric cars need power stations that make lots of heat. Burning fossil fuel in a power station is no different to burning it in a car.
@@Johnsmith-zi9pu it is, though. Large power plants burn their fuel at maximum efficiency and they don't have to change their output on a whim. All of that leads to less CO2 emissions per kW, as they can run exactly how they're designed to do.
Cars on the other hand? They constantly have to accelerate and deccelerate, all of that puts tremendous strain on the motor and all moving parts, but most importantly: it looses energy everytime you do it. The energy you loose while breaking is not coming back and the one you use to accelerate is more than you'd typically need, because let's face it: humans aren't very good drivers.
A BEV doesn't loose as much energy, as it can recuperate and use that same energy to accelerate again, even more of it, if they're using supercapacitors to smoothen out the peak energy.
So, even if you were producing the electricity conventionally, you would still loose less of it in the car. And if you're concerned about the losses in transmission, always think about that gas doesn't magically appear at gas stations, too.
@@Johnsmith-zi9pu its not the same
Power stations have 60-80% efficiency while cars have 20-30%
So electric cars are between 150-300% more efficient when powered by fossil fuel electricity than ICE
@@zazugee Electric cars run on power stations and you failed to factor in energy lost in transmission.
Unless your electric car runs on nuclear power its environmental impact will be bigger than a conventional car.
According to energy expert Michael Shellenberger, 100% renewable energy would require half on the earth’s available land and lead to enormous environmental pressure and destruction of habitat.
Beautifully put together. Thank you so much!
What strains the electric grid is PEAK consumption. Recharging is done at night, off peak.
seems a lot of our electricity is from solar which doesn't produce at night
snodgee which can be stored in batteries for night use. Albeit with some loss.
So in the usa 300 million people needing 2-3kw wont strain the system? yeah okay. Lol
Surely off peak will just become peak
@@snodgee Most electricity is actually is from wind farms, but battery and other storage systems will hold on to solar generated electricity until needed. All the UK energy companies are investing in wind farms and storage systems whilst switching off coal-fired power stations.
If you live where I do, not having a car is not an option, buses are infrequent. You can only go to town and nowhere else without making multiple changes.
The BBC have just been promoting small electric cars starting at £25,000 and upwards, there are new developments in roadside charges that can do a 80% charge in under 10 minutes, it takes 150 KWA each time, more than most people would use for general consumption in a week.
Having said that I also remember it said recently in the news that our Electric Grid was at full capacity now, and emergency action through investment was needed, if not power cuts would become inevitable. They will need a miracle to be able to keep up with demand, it is only an ideologists dream.
how can it be at full capacity when demand is falling and hinckly point will add another 8% capacity
@@waynecartwright7276 I have not heard any retractions of the gloom and doom predicted a few years ago when they said the power network was at breaking point. Mind you that part of my statement was rather pointing out that all these predictions are usually exaggerated, think Extinction Rebellion and their current claims, 12 years to save the planet. We will still be here then and little will have changed, apart from a few extra pounds in carbon taxes conned out of us.
I am coming to terms with the price in Aus.. a whopping $72000 for the Model 3. It was also said that driving one is super cool, driving my car is brilliant top, so all these commentaries are ramming me. My joy is with my brilliant car, my experiences
The price is probably AUD $72000, not USD $72000. The Australian dollar is extremely weak now, having dropped almost 40% in 5 years, which explains the price.
If you live in a city with a proper public transport system you don't need to own any car.
Correct. I spent 25 years in Hong Kong, and never wanted a car. Public transport is so much more convenient there than a car, even if you have plenty of money to run one. I live in the UK now, and there is no realistic way to function without a car. A big part of that difference is the high population density of Hong Kong, compared to a village in the UK, but there's more to it than that. The less people use public transport the more public transport gets dropped because the traffic levels are not viable for running a service. There are some really bizarre bus routes around here, though. Some run quite frequently up to 5PM and then stop. So, just as you get out of work, the buses stop and you need a car to get home.
I cant go golf without the car.
Not everyone goes to an office job. Much of traffic is not commuters. I have a refinishing company and have equipment and supplies. Do you expect me to take a bus or bicycle? Would my customers be expected to allow me to plug into their electricity to recharge my EV?
Much of traffic in London is people taking children to and from school. They then park badly, block roads as they stop on yellow lines, zip zag lines. Then do u turns and go home. When school holidays traffic eases.
That's okay if you like to sit in other people's filth, I'll stick to my motorcycles
What an imaginatively presented
and engaging video. Eleven out of ten for such a creative exercise. Clever, in the nicest sense of the word.
Thanks. Awesome. Have 2 cars one electric and one CNG Combustion engine old car. Always problems with the obsolete Combustion engine car hate it.. like my bicycle and the EV instead.
Solarized walk assist devices can easily be arrayed, ie, 10 machines packing 600watts can easily be grouped to create an 6 kw power plant, anywhere. As simple as unplugging from the machines batteries and plugging into a bus bar.
There's also the reason that repairing electric cars is extremely hard, especially since a lot of EV manufacturers implement DRM software to stop consumers repairing their own devices. Though I'd argue that's more of a wide scale issue with electronic devices and the mismanagement of IP laws
firstly if you drive you pollute thats how it is, electric cars seem a lot cheaper on fuel because you pay 5% vat on fuel and no fuel duty, which is most of the cost of a litre of petrol or diesel, but dont think that will last for ever, as soon as there are enough electric cars they will get hit like any other car, plus you will only get cheap rate electric at night if you are on an economy 7 tariff for storage heaters on a standard tariff you will pay about 14p a unit. Plus its been announced that solar and battery installs will now be charged vat at 20% while coal will be charged 5% vat, so you can see the government are starting to claw back lost revenue.
I know for the first time renewable sources are producing more electric than fossil fuels, although there is still nuclear to factor in. But what i dont get is how people say they are only using green electric to power their stuff, because thats rubbish unless someone did change the laws of physics.
As a supply cable runs down the street, then each property is connected to that cable, so how does house one get green electric and house two get dirty electric?, well it doesnt, you cant send one type of electric to one place and a different kind to another, what is happening is that they are saying for every dirty unit used, they are generating one by renewables a bit of misleading marketing i think.
I live in an apartment with no access to electricity outside. I've never seen a charging station in the four years I've lived here but I've heard there's one at the local mall and a Tesla dealership. I work at a small machine shop where there's no power access outside. It's impossible for me to think that electric cars are a practical option for me. I don't think I'm the only one in this situation since all of the streets in this suburban community are solid parked cars at night. One good thing about electric vehicles is that they finally realize Rudolf Diesel's goal of using coal to power cars. His engine couldn't do it but the power plants around here along with electric cars can. (sorry, just a little trolling)
There are plenty of options out there to charge. www.plugshare.com/ in North America. Zap Map in Europe.
Street parking and workplace parking absolutely must be upgraded to do charging.
How about a bike ya lazy bastard?
I just discovered your channel from my recommendations. Outstanding! New subscriber!
watching this 5 years in; today (halfway to that 10 yr mark) and it's already changed so much.
if you need to replace the battery system will cost in the upwards of $15000, they only last 10 years tops.
You are correct, Quadaimat. When the batteries degrade below 70%, electric car drivers are forced to buy a new battery skate. And right now, the price is between $8000-$12,000. And when you factor in that type of expense, any "savings" that you make have made by going electric are gone after 10 years.
More "FAKE NEWS" from NotTheCIA. Please produce ONE OFFICIAL press release from ANY EV carmaker where THEY state that their batteries have a minimum rating of 250k miles...or will last to 500k, and they can guarantee that. JUST ONE!!!
Most modern counties can handle a 15-20% increase...said no one in Calofornia ever, as rolling blackouts are now a way of life.
It can be handled at night after peak demand. It's also possible to sell power from your BEV. Smart grid can manage all this using price. BEVS improve the grid they don't strain it. Grid batteries are already being built in the GW range.
@@tonystanley5337 Did you just take the position people will only be allowed to charge their cars at night??? Or can they trade off with they can charge their car, but have to turn the AC and the refrigerator off?
@@AnAZPatriot No, I'm just thinking of a slight modification to typical behaviour during a fault or poor planning condition. People responded well to requests from gov't to delay demand, programming your car to charge at a certain time is already a standard feature and not really an inconvenience, they can defy it if they need to, but at risk of tripping the grid. Most people are not doing a full charge every night, charging for 6 hours in off-peak is probably plenty for them. Capacity in California will return, this was a planning or communciation error. There was plenty of capacity before, they just decided to switch off too much or plants were shut down by mistake.
In a smart grid system behaviour is controlled by price. Put the price up, people will consume less and provide more stored from the batteries and cars. Drop the price and they will charge. You can do this automatically in your charger, either by schedule or by a live pricing signal.
There is a deal in the UK where you can buy a Leaf with very cheap electricity if you agree to have you car connected to the grid for certain hours a certain amount of days in the month. If you do you get a bonus price saving. The charger and car comes with V2G. Elon Musk has talked about a virtual power plant from cars with a leased battery. There are many ways to make use of the storage capacity of cars to benefit the grid.
@@tonystanley5337 govt requests....tripping the grid...price fixing...I rest my original case.
@@AnAZPatriot I don't get your point, and where did price fixing come into it? The market sets the price, it's the whole point.
So well produced this vid should go viral! ⚡️
Just added to Twitter
Got a friend who thinks you're not a man to drive electric? Challenge them to a 1/4 mile drag race. Looser pays the next round... Electric car and free beer...cool.
You could transplant Mercedes AMG engine into a hairdressers car and the car would still be a hairdressers car
How about we run a real race. That's 500 miles.
How about cross country, respecting all traffic laws?
I noted several problems with the cost analysis. First one is the assumption of incentives to buy electric; if electric vehicle sales increase then the incentives have to end. Governments can subsidize electric vehicles as long as they are a tiny fraction of overall sales. Same goes for the removal of plating costs. The costs of vehicle plates goes to help pay for roads. The biggest obstacle is omitting the cost to replace the batteries. The battery must be replaced in 5 - 7 years and the costs would be higher than the vehicle value. Where is the environmental advantage if the whole vehicle is scrapped within 7 years of production?
I am an EV owner - a Kona Electric. One questionable point was the comparison of cost of ownership of a Kona Electric against a Toyota RAV4. The Kona is not comparable to a RAV4. You're comparing a subcompact SUV against a compact SUV - ie. the next size up. The obvious question would be why wouldn't you compare a Kona Electric cost of ownership against a regular ICE powered Kona? It seems like the larger class of car from a different manufacturer was used to try to prove a point. Other than that, I think I would mostly agree with most of what you've said here.
Nice one, well produced and good arguments.
@@VeganSemihCyprus33 I agree there is a lot to fix and some of the solutions what you are mentioning is reasonable.
Capitalism at the roots is not the problem, greediness is the issue. But that is a psychological problem of those people who race for the more and more money.
Also a huge problem is corruption and carelessness. These two are the cancer of the democracy. Carelessness is all of our fault, corruption would not exist if we would care to use our power to fight the corrupt people. But unfortunately we are not.
So your attack on this channel is a bit sign you are losing your cool head and trying to point on someone. Yes, this solutions are not the most optimal, but it's not easy to achieve what you are recommending. Public transport is vastly governing problem. Even if the government would push it, people have issue even share they car, can't even think that they would give up all the comfort comming with owning it. I understand your frustration, but pushing too hard on people would create only even more resistance.
At the moment we need to stop racing down the hill and when we stand still, we can work on climbing up and reach all those very racional and good thoughts you have.
My recommendation for you would be collecting information about all the topics you mentioned, find examples and ways how to achieve them, and offer your help to this channel instead of taking its momentum. At the end we are trying to solve the same problem.
@@gene8194 So, in other words, Crony capitalism??
@@ieronymos9265 can you explain what do you exactly mean?
Good information, but taxes have to come from somewhere, as soon as enough vehicles are electric, it will cost just as much for electricity as it does for petrol or diesel. We still need to change for the sake of the planet, but it wont be cheaper. Old farts like me remember when diesel was cheap, everyone moved to diesel, and bingo, the price went through the roof.
It's something like 45% of gas prices are taxes and tariffs? They will just push that to energy generation. Then our home energy prices will kick up as well.
I'd like an electric wagon. But unfortunately I don't know of one in development.
I thought the Kia Soul EV was basically a wagon. You can also get the Audi A3 E-Tron which is a plug in hybrid, which goes around 50Km/31 miles on electricity only, which covers 99% of most people's daily driving.
I live to 35 Miles over a mountain from shopping making electric not too practical it stretch's to 54 miles depending what I am shopping for. Charging stations are not common either. Also I we I'll never again buy a new car. Let someone else eat the depreciation my car is 23 years old.
@@oldman6172 I assume you have electricity in your house, an EV could do easily 200miles, 300 or 400 on one charge if you have the money. I also have a 25yo car, but fuel is gonna get expensive soon.
Why don't these total cost of ownership calculations include the cost of capital? Historically you can earn around 10% in the stock market (6% capital gains; 4% dividend yield). That means when I am choosing between a $30k car and a $50k car, I need to take into account the returns I would get from investing the $20k difference in the stock market. This makes electric cars very uneconomical when comparing like for like - e..g Kona petrol vs Kona electric. Anyone who does not understand the concept of 'opportunity cost' is destined to be poor.
@NotTheCIA I.think #2 in this list is that the electric cars are too expensive and then goes on to say that electric cars are cheaper when you take into account the cost of ownership. If I have two options: (A) buy a Kona Electric; or (B) buy a petrol Kona and invest the surplus funds (Kona Electric price minus petrol Kona price) in the stock market; then after 10 years of ownership and selling the car, I will have more money in the bank with option B than option A. If you don't understand that concept then we will leave it be.
Excellent research but nothing can beat personal experience. Bought a Nissan Leaf Oct 2018 - 40kw power. Just to be clear max distance at 60mph(ish) is a 160miles. The lab conditions test in what would seem a vacuum, these are the stats used in the advertising spec not real world, on the road performance. Great vehicle but wished I'd waited for the forthcoming 60kw.
Love your work, now it’s the last chance to be sustainable or we all fail.
Do you remember Nokia? That will happen to every car brand that missed the right moment...This moment seems to be 2020.
yes, but Nokia is back..remember !
Dbunking FUD in a professional level well done men...man!
Cheers Graham. Much appreciated.
Well done! Shared this with my EV groups. In North America, we have PlugShare to find all available charge points- looks very simliar to Zap Map. Even on the Prairies in Canada, where it is a Tesla Supercharger wasteland thus far (Elon, are you listening?), we can manage on long trips with Level 2 stations. In fact, we are headed to Edson, Alberta from Winnipeg, Manitoba, next week in our Tesla Model 3. Sure, it takes a little more planning, but stopping at a gas station just to clean the windscreen and use the loo makes it worth it! And once the SC network is up, it'll be a breeze! Best purchase we have ever made!
Thanks Penny. You are an inspiration to us all! All the best. Dave :-)
I am new to this topic. It sounds like a house could have a charging station installed, connected to a solar roof. Then one could have one electric commuter car and one gas van for long hauls, I think. One might be fine with an electric van in most places. I'm a bit skeptical that Wyoming will be excited about charging stations along its highways unless the demand were overwhelming.
Great informative video plus excellent edit - thank you 😎.
The bristles on my wife's floor brush wore out so I'm buying her an electric vacuum cleaner for her birthday, we got to go electric to save the world.
Hopefully with a brushless motor.
Oh and get her the extra car cleaning attachments too
Hold up, electric vacuum cleaner? where you using petrol before lol? Thought those was just myths and legends.
Did you replace your floor brush too?
The human body is a low efficiency engine and food has 3 times as big a CO2 footprint as gasoline per kWh, so you are reducing her emissions to around 1/6! Well done.
'Love your program! Always thought -inspiring as you obviously intend! On this episode, though, One, Big reason to not own an E-car lies in the fact that perhaps we should instead think about how we can limit the use of cars entirely! We should ask ourselves key questions such as: "Why is my community designed in such a way that a car is necessary?" Instead of putting money into car insurance & electricity or fuel, wouldn't it be grand to hop on the bus or train & read or answer e-mails during one's commute? Also grand to re-engineer Zoning laws such that one could walk to the grocery, Dentist, library, & so on instead of being trapped in a many-square-mile maze of land that is exclusively housing! 'Looking forward to your next posting!
Exactly my thought. Private cars hogging public space. Improve public transport. Get ring and ride services for the elderly and disabled. The rest of us need to stop expecting to be carted around.
Horses are eco friendly.
@@VH-eq2ci But not cows, Just ask AOC.. Talk about methane breath herself.
Your wonderland is not conducive to the larger cities we have to build to house the population. We would have to take up tons more real estate for your plan to be efficient. And right now people are freaking out of the amount of land available for farming/ranching/and even conservation efforts. That's not even mentioning the need for more trees.
Buses are crap as well. Ask anyone who is forced to use one to get to work and they can tell you that having your own transportation is much more preferable.
Doing what you want to would take building a city up from scratch, or rebuilding from the ground up, to utilize placement, public transport, and many other environment saving ideas.
I am not saying that we couldn't do it one day, but it won't be as easy as you make it sound.
If we just wiped China off the map, we would probably gain another 50 years to deal with the problem.
Well made and documented, Thank you. Nevertheless, we lack key information on the sustainability of such tech in your argumentation and the price question might need some caution considering the lack of info available (indeed, perhaps due to strong lobbying from the fuel advocates... or perhaps because Electric Vehicles (EV) advocates/lobbyist hide them?? )...
Many arguments presented are, or really should, be accompanied with a clear "if" or "soon"or "maybe in few years". Who can bet on electricity price (will the production keep up with the demand? will it remain dependent on fossil fuel price? Wat policy/financial incentives will be put in place? how fast this "smart grid" - using car batteries to store and release electricity - will be available on the large scale? at what cost will this smart system be? and, when it is finally there, who owns the battery of the car? -the driver or the grid company making the battery "work", charging and discharging, while parked?)?
Re-use/second life is slowly appearing and, finally, recycling is on its way (this channel, Just Have a Think, made an episode about it if I am correct) but it is far from developed or fully ready yet. Once again, on sustainability, we lack arguments from a complete life cycle analysis (analysis that should also be done with other vehicle -i.e. diesel, gasoiline, LGP- to be able to compare solutions). Analysis taking into account lithium mining and the many other metal required for those battery (many types of it!), taking into account the energy to build, to recycle, etc... Yes, it will change over time and potentially faster than one could imagine... Yes, electrical power source (e.g. renewable, nuclear, coal) greatly change the amount of CO2 emission on each - building, regular commuting, and recycling - phases of those car. Yet, such analysis seems to me very necessary, before advertising and promoting this so cold "green solution car" or even "zero emission" car... Remember that "Zero emission" may be true at the car-engine-running level, avoiding emission in the cities, with the power to significantly improve health related issues, but the rest (electrical production, construction of the car, recycling and or disposal) will always emit CO2!!!
Finally, how many km² of solar panels, how many kg of silicon are to be extracted to build them, how many Gtonnes of rock have to be processed , how many dams and relate flooded areas to be built, how many windmills, kg of iron to build them, to be able to "sustainably" power an individual electric car transportation network on a large scale (and for what usage)? Is this feasible? On what timescale? At what social, environmental, financial cost?
Without entering into those difficult computation and long bibliography search, one can wonder/have a guess about how often and for what usage it sounds really sustainable to use a 2000 Kg of rare metals machine to transport a 70kg average human... Have a good research everyone on those questions!
Your last paragraph points out something that a lot of people don't think about. I believe plugin hybrids are the best solution right now until we get a major battery breakthrough.
More people are likely to buy a hybrid that can get 30-40 mile of pure electric range but have the gas for longer periods. We can produce a lot more PHEV vehicles since so much less resources are needed to produce batteries. Since most people only drive about 33 miles per day, this would result in getting almost the same or greater impact on the environment than trying to get everyone into a BEV.
Reason 3: the statistics said that EV's produce 40% the CO2 when being run. On fully charged Robert said that you should take into account the process of splitting the crude oil.
So for the electricity used to power one electric car you use five and a half times more electricity processing the crude oil into petrol and diesel plus the ICE car also emits CO2.