The truth is the MLB season in 1994 should have been cancelled like in hockey (05 lockout) to bring in a Salary Cap and a Salary Floor. Baseball will continue to struggle without cost certainty.
The problem then becomes how do you make small market teams competitive while forcing them to spend money every year. Milwaukee can not compete with the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, or any other major market team. The MLB would become what the NBA is now, where there are only a handful teams that compete for a title while the rest of the league has to overpay players (that don’t deserve the contracts) and can’t compete with teams that happen to have gotten rid of their entire payroll one year and then sign a big 3 in Miami or in OKC. I agree teams need to be competitive every year. I think the only way you can force to teams to be competitive is to put a salary cap like the NFL. One of the the problems then becomes how do you convince major market teams to accept a salary cap when they can spend every dollar on anyone now.
Scott Boras is just upset these lower payroll teams won't overpay for his clients. It's not because teams are cheap that all his free agents are still unsigned, it's because they are overvaluing their worth; especially in today's game where rookies are coming up from the minors and carrying their teams to the playoffs
I agree, any team that pays Harper what he wants is risking another average season. He had a great yr, 2015; nothing special to show after that. Andújar production’s was close to Machado’s, as a rookie...and a lot cheaper. Not to mention that Machado is a cancer in the dugout.
Nah, its collusion just like in the 80s....if this happens again this offseason Tony Clark should prepare a case for the courts....its not as obvious as the 80s, but it's getting there.
Look at the last three teams to win a World Series...Astros, Cubs, Royals. What do they all have in common? They all "tanked" and got top prospects and those top prospects were key cogs in their World Series championships. Just like Michael said, other GMs around the league are looking at the success of rebuilding and figure that is the best way to be successful as opposed to signing premiere free agents for way too much money like the Angels, Dodgers, Tigers, etc.
Incentivize progress. You can get top draft picks for finishing near the bottom two or maybe three years in a row. After that, the team must show improvement. If they do, they can continue to get strong draft picks. Also, teams that have been around .500 and not made the playoffs for many years in a row should also get priority for draft picks. Much better ideas than a salary floor.
@@kobyschechter8163 The problem is that draft picks are less important in baseball than other sports. There are owners that would rather not have the top pick because it means they wouldn't have to pay as much to sign them. The only way is to take away the right of a team to not spend. Implement a minimum spending threshold. Payroll must meet a minimum of $100 mil, and if is doesn't the owner/team gets fined the difference.
Every sport should have league wide lotteries for the draft. It’s ridiculous that the teams that do it right don’t get a thing but the pathetic teams get the best picks. It’s a joke
Every sport does this though. Tanking plagues pro sports. That’s why in my opinion college basketball and football are better and more entertaining than the pro level. Baseball is so deep though with minor leagues and it’s ridiculous player control systems which I believe need to be changed. That’s the real crux is that service time is so stressed teams won’t call up their best players until it fits “their schedule” even though guys might be mashing in the minors.
100 percent agree. For starters they should randomize the draft. With how well R&D has been the last 5 years with advanced numbers early draft picks are really starting to pan out where having an early pick does matter. Fix that for starters. They should also fine the worst teams in baseball for finishing dead last. Like look at the AL central and NL east. It’s disgusting to see 3-4 teams in a division tank because there’s a super team.
Notice that all these tanking teams, they all have small payrolls, you can’t compare the As or Padres to the Yankees. Tanking is the only way for small budget teams to get strong teams. When you have a 400 million dollar payroll, you can easily “rebuild” with 81-87 win season.
The fact that nobody mentions the insane bust rate of top baseball draft picks when talking about tanking in baseball is beyond me. This isn't like basketball. And before anyone mentions the cheating 2017 Astros, Correa and Bregs were the only top 10 Astros draft picks
Draft order, rookie salaries, and guaranteed payouts were supposed to help lower income teams to be competitive but instead it created the tanking strategy to lose now and win later based on luxury tax resets and draft picks. There needs to be a way to "flatten" the payrolls to always have a competitive team and prevent these all star teams that franchises have saved up for.
What this shows is that there is a mismatch between player salaries and their values. You need to know the value of a win and a player's wins above replacement (both of which they know) and then price players accordingly. The players demand money based on their marketing value, but the owners have long enough contracts that the marketing isn't where they make their money, at least in the short term. They can't do that forwever because it impacts their next contract, but they can do it mid-media contract to rebuild and get enough of a fan base afterward to have leverage for their next contract. Hence, the value of a good player is much lower and much shorter in duration than those players demand and only the teams looking to breal out and win now and renegotiate a new contract are incentivized to spend the money. One option is that they mandate long-term media contracts are prorated based on wins. Set the contract price at 81 games. If you win 100 games, you get a 25% bonus on your deal. If you win 60 games, you just lost 25% on that deal. Maybe the bonuses and hits should be smaller, but the principal makes sense. You could also delay the payout by 3 years so that if you field a losing team, you have a few years to make up that revenue by playing better and if you do, you can borrow against your impending bonus to balance against the loss from 3 years earlier. But if you keep losing, your team will lose money. And even losing 1 season will cost you short-term profits so it is never an advantage to do it on purpose, just not fatal if it happens unintentionally once in a while.
"The Yankees, Dodgers, and Red Sox have $200 million payrolls meanwhile teams can just spend $45 million! Does that seem fair?" NO IT DOESNT maybe we shouldn't allow teams like the Yankees to spend that much!!! What a homer. Oh and btw, the A's CAN win even with that low payroll.
Boras is full of it. He’d being doing the exact same thing if he was running a team. If everyone competes to win at the same time ur odds of winning go down. Fans WILL understand losing now to win later. As Cubs fan I was perfectly happy sucking from 2011-2014 to win in the future. Boras is saying what he needs to say to get his clients signed unfortunately for him GM’s understand there’s no reason to give huge 6-7 year deals is not worth for players who will soon be out of their prime. The guy in this vid saying the Yankees won with out tanking is obviously forgetting the fact that the Yankees always have the biggest payroll in MLB and more or less bought their titles.
The Yankees have always spent money to stay competitive if need be, and that's why they have the largest fan base and the highest revenue. Staying competitive even when sometimes overpaying some players keeps casual fans interested. With the Yankees now rebuilt, after going through zero rebuilding years, they are at the top of the league again with the Astros, Dodgers, Cubs, etc. all without intentionally losing.
Free agent signings sell tickets. They do not win baseball games. Owners NEED to invest in player development. College coaches DESTROY young baseball players. Players in northern states need a place to play year-round like they have in Toronto. Baseball is dying because kids do not want to play and coaches do not know how to coach. Kids who want to play have no place to play. MLB is killing their Golden Goose.
@@calbert6200 Still doesn’t change the fact that they won 97 games in 2018. Obviously Khris Davis led the MLB in home runs that year but the A’s didn’t have a true superstar. They played together as a team.
I disagree with Kay on this....even some of the teams he mentioned are not tanking or trying to tank....they have offers out there for free agents including Boras's....but they have a limit to what they want to spend on said player. Boras is screwed right now....all the high priced teams are trying to lower payroll because of the tax....so there isnt a money competition for guys like Hosmer.....so deals have him making 16 to 22 million max instead of over 30 if Yanks and Dodgers were in the mix. The other problem is that were are talking about positions that the teams are happy with currently....A's are an example....they have Matt Olsen at first base....23 years old and had 24 homeruns in under 200 at bats last year....why would the team want to spend 25 million for hosmer with this kids potential?
It still isn't fair if there is a floor, if teams like the dodgers and yankees can potentially have a 300 million dollar payroll. "Small market" teams will just be spending money for nothing except the hope that the baseball gods choose them to be the sleeper that year. We can argue in circles about this forever, the only "fair" way is having a hard cap and floor, no exceptions. But at that point you limit the best players from earning what they deserve. It's never going to work, this is close to the best system. Tanking is "fair to the fans" because they have a great chance to win a championship at the end of it. And good young players are exciting to watch.
If individual players deliberately throw a game to make extra money it's the ultimate crime in sports. Somehow, when an entire franchise does the same thing for an entire season ( sometimes multiple seasons) and for the same reason, it's considered acceptable. This deliberate choice to not be competitive influences the outcome of the entire season. It certainly undermines the integrity of the game when everybody knows some teams are trying to win and some of the team's they are playing are not. It may make short term financial sense for some teams to do this but over the long run the fans are just going to throw up their hand in.disgust and walk away.
I mean, he inherited a team that was $400 million in debt and a team that hasn't sniffed the playoffs since 2003. No one seems to get that they weren't going anywhere even with Gordon, Stanton, Ozuna, and Yelich.
Tim is absolutely right........the Jeter group paid 1.6 billion for the team and then found out that the marlins have a bad stadium contract, bad tv deal, bad attendance (We all know that....even with Stanton/Gordon/Ozuna and Yelich, Marlins still came in 30th in attendance last year) and the team has debts with other places and companies that still need to be done. They are not tanking to get a high draft pick....they are trying to balance the money before they can compete....could take years before they have enough.
+Tim McCane And then found out? You think they didnt know that before they made the purchase? Of course they did. They could've just traded Stanton and came up with a different way to resolve the rest of the debt. If you are paying 1.6 billion for a team, whats another $100 million? Pennies. You dont trade away another 3 allstars (4 once they trade Realmuto) for borderline pro prospects and expect that to be a good decision moving forward. And better believe is Jose Fernandez was still alive they would've traded him too. Its a joke. Do you think that now that they are "debt free" they wont be losing money again next season when they have 7,000 people a game and 90 percent is cheering for the other team? The franchise is doomed and the sooner they are able to relocate, the better baseball will be.
Basically the point is that by sucking for 3-4 years, and building through the draft is now frowned upon. Ummm, didn't the Yankees build their dynasty in the 90's the SAME EXACT WAY? (Bernie/Jeter/Posada/Rivera/Petite)
Jeffrey Herzberg Bernie and Rivera we're discovered by a scout, Petite was selected in the 24th round and Jeter and posada were signed to minor league deals at first.
Um hello, the POINT is that you build through the draft. Who cares how you get there. No longer should teams over spend on aging veterans just to win 84 games. You need to completely break it down and start fresh, THEN and ONLY THEN do you supplement that talent with veteran free agents. Look at the 1980s Mets, They drafted very well and added to that young core with Hernandez/Carter/Orosco etc.
Jeffrey Herzberg I mean the Yankees didn't have to "completely break it down" and instead they stayed competitive while making moves on the side. Then again, not every team has a Brian Cashman....
I think a good fix is expanding playoffs. In the national league the dodgers, cubs and nationals have had so much more money to spend and had dominating teams. Why would cincy Pittsburgh Miami San Diego push more money on the table just to try and get a one game wildcard birth. It’s not worth it. If more teams make it, more teams will be buyers at the deadline and go for it because anything can happen in October.
there should be unaffiliated minor league system of teams that could get promoted through a playoff system while the worst team in NL and AL gets relegated
Idk what drugs you were smoking while writing this inane comment, but tanking is indeed destroying Baseball. Not even half the league is ever competitive like ever, and that's good for the sport?
I agree that teams should not be rewarded to tank but come on, having Yankees guys be pissed that teams aren’t spending is ridiculous. Small Market teams can’t sign huge names out of nowhere and fix their problems. These teams have to develop players and can’t buy away their problems. Tanking is a huge issue but at the same time it’s one of the only ways smaller front offices can compete with the big dogs. If the MLB put in a payroll floor they would need to also put in a salary cap.
5 years ago Tigers, Royals, Giants, Orioles and Blue Jays were World Series contenders while Cubs, Astros, and Brewers were cellar dwellers, now the tables have turned
Is Michael Kay really that stupid that he doesn’t realize not every team in Major League Baseball has the luxury of spending big money like the Yankees, Red Sox or Dodgers. I’m sure there are some other teams I’m not mentioning as well but you get the point. It’s easy to say teams are tanking or not trying when you spend hundreds of millions of dollars almost every single offseason. It also has to do with agents overvaluing their players. I don’t know about all of you but I would be in no rush to sign Harper or Machado. Have teams not learned from 8-10 year deals and how often times they come back to bite a team in the ass? Look at Albert Pujols for example, in 2012 he signed for 10 years and 265 million dollars. Question since his contract, how many times have the Angels made the playoffs?
No...paying middling players hundreds of millions of dollars on decade long deals is “destroying” the sport. I want players to make money as well but Boras’ sole concern is extracting maximum value for his clients. Everyone talks about young stars getting screwed, nobody talks about veterans basically robbing teams for 5 plus years on the back end. We need a middle ground where players become RFA eligible after 4 years which will allow stars to get real money earlier. However that needs to be coupled with an NBA style max length contract of 5 years with your original team allowed to offer 6 years. This would see many stars getting fair value by age 23-26 and would incentivize teams to offer extensions even earlier. On the flip side the deals would expire in 28-31 age range giving sustainably great players a second massive 5/6 year deal which would actually be mostly worth it for teams. Even if the player regressed much earlier than expected the deal would have 2-3 years left, not 6-7. The best players would still make crazy money and might even get higher AAV’s considering length caps. Instead of a 10 year deal you’d sign 2 five year deals. This system would shuffle more money towards younger stars and would do a better job of making sure the right players were making the money. Watching Pujols/Miggy/Chris Davis etc cash checks for the last 5 years has been embarrassing.
completely agree. like giants fans keep going back and forth with if we should commit and sign kris bryant or not and that thought process is so sad. it shouldn't have to be that way, but it's only this way because of like you said, agents like scott boras have made it this way. same with corey seager. it would be great to go all in and spend a lot on these two who are perfect for the team's culture and attitude but the standard is that they'll want big contracts for 10-12 years when that's just too much to commit too. paying bryant or seager $30+ million a year for maximum 5 years is no big deal (especially for a team like the giants), but to have to commit to 1 or 2 expensive free agents for a whole decade is preposterous that it ends up with us not signing them at all. it's so stupid. they should have to prove themselves every 5 years. it just really stifles a team's growth when they have to be stuck with aging player for 10+ years without knowing what will happen with them injury or performance wise. these long contracts also give players the excuse to phone it in. if they had to re-earn their big scale salaries every 5 years, they'd put more yearly effort instead of knowing they'll get $20+ million a year for the rest of their career.
who cares the league is better when the yankees,dodgers,cubs,red sox and markets woth young exciting teams like houston, mets,angels, indians,nationals, mariners(maybe)
Regardless of the verdict of juries, no player that throws a ball game, no player that entertains proposals or promises to throw a game, no player that sits in a conference with a bunch of crooked players and gamblers where the ways and means of throwing games are discussed, and does not promptly tell his club about it, will ever again play professional baseball.
This is nothing new. The Pirates ownership figured out long ago that a last place team makes more money compared to investment than a high price winning team. Really, the only way to fix things is to start from scratch with a new league that controls salaries, ticket costs and makes baseball affordable to fans for the long haul. Huge payrolls take passion out of the players. I'm not saying to not pay well, but imagine if your base salary was 200,000 year and then players get bonuses based upon performance, making the all-start game, getting MVP etc. Franchise players get capped at 1 million/year. Just throwing out ideas here of course, but the bottom line is that something has to give in professional sports.
Any time a normal business isn't providing value to customers, the customers leave. For me, this one is on the fans. Stop supporting your team financially or with your time, until the ownership puts a product worth your attention on the market.
Baseball is the only sport where a team drafting number 1 purposely doesn't take the consensus best player in the draft because he will cost more then another player taken. So with MLB the number 5 pick could get a $5 signing bonus and the number one pick to get a 3.5 million dollar signing bonus
Tanking works... Cubs built their whole team by tanking. Getting high draft picks, and unloading veterans is the way to win long term. You would be stupid not to tank. You can lose for 3 or 4 years... and then win for the next 12. OR you can be a middle of the road team like the Reds.
If the Knicks or Rangers said we will do a full rebuild the fan base would be estatic why are they always bad? Because they NEVER tank free agency won’t win shit most players don’t deserve big money you win with young and veteran mix of guys and having great players before they get mega bucks... rangers just suck because they keep trading picks, yes they’ve been good but they have an all time great goalie for years with good players but never great... they realistically can’t win and there future is going to be miserable unless they embrace selling very soon... you win in the draft just accept it it sucks but cubs and Astros proved it.
White Sox fans are pretty excited for the future after getting rid of all of their good players for perceived young talent. It's not called tanking or making an extreme profit in terms of the White Sox, it's called gearing up to be competitive in a couple years and not fielding mediocre rosters in the present day and making fans think they are trying to win. Furthermore, White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf has done a decent job of spending efficiently while not being cheap and not giving ridiculous contracts to players passed their prime.
Over 9 minutes of 2 guys reiterating the same point back and forth at eachother. Not that I disagree with them, but this video could have been 4 minutes long lol.
What a bunch of utter nonsense. Boras' statement was about one thing, and one thing only, filling his pocket. Forward to 3 years later, look at the Padres and the White Sox, they're on top of their division. At least one of them is post season bound.
When these guys bought these teams didn’t anyone tell them that these players make millions of dollars a year?? If you can’t afford it don’t buy a team!!
skimping on payroll is the right of the business in America .... end of story. Every business has the right to be in transition....does that mean a lousy record ? Absolutely. The fanbase is not above all.....EVER. B/c if the fanbase goes south the business suffers so its in the business's best interest to consider the fans...but they are not an end all. The health of the business is the end all.
ZCorp Alpha I see your point but with that you just pointed out what fans don't want to see. Die hard fans don't want to see their prospective team throw games away. If that were the case anywhere in sports than it's no fun. Losing sucks bottom line.
C.J. Lawlor I guess I remember the 1980’s New York Yankees, growing up in the NY/NJ area in the 1980’s. Listening to the games on my portable radio 📻, while riding my bike 🚲. I was used to losing, but games were fun in the hot summers.
the astros and the cubs werent being disgraceful they were in transition periods of taking over from poor management, the yankees have been blessed with high priced free agents and big name players for decades michael kay is right about the cap but his bias is too strong
The Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers are the only teams that actually have respect for their fans. All these other teams have absolutely zero respect for their fans. THat is clear. Ironically, everyone hates the Yankees and the Dodgers and claim that they are "bad for the game."
Of course they tank for the top pick. What is the dude on the left talking about? Hello...astros & cubs. Every team knows this now. It's going to be a lot harder to do this now.
i don't think its neccesarily tanking. its more that fact that small market teams cant afford to over pay players and eat bad contracts like larger markets can.
Big money teams SHOULD be capped, if we are talking about fairness. Also not every fan is some uber-competitive jerk that will have a temper tantrum if their team isn't doing good. If they don't understand the strategy that says enough anyway.
It's a monopoly. There's a union. Now there is pseudo socialism---redistribution of wealth. The further one gets from a pure free market the more distortion of incentives will creep in. When you try to fix one unintended consequence you'll end up creating others. It's a game of whack-a-mole. I haven't given it any thought, but intuitively I liked DennisShumar11's idea, "randomize the draft". I'll always favor ideas tending in the direction of a free market, or replicating the incentive arrangements of a free market. It's never going to be perfect, I can tell you that much.
The truth is the MLB season in 1994 should have been cancelled like in hockey (05 lockout) to bring in a Salary Cap and a Salary Floor. Baseball will continue to struggle without cost certainty.
The As would go on to win 97 games and play the Yankees in the Wild Card game later in 2018
And lost yet again. What’s your point?
@@TL2354 the Yankees lost in 2018 too so what’s ur point?
@@TL2354 Still doesn’t change the fact that Oakland won 97 games in 2018.
The problem then becomes how do you make small market teams competitive while forcing them to spend money every year. Milwaukee can not compete with the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, or any other major market team. The MLB would become what the NBA is now, where there are only a handful teams that compete for a title while the rest of the league has to overpay players (that don’t deserve the contracts) and can’t compete with teams that happen to have gotten rid of their entire payroll one year and then sign a big 3 in Miami or in OKC.
I agree teams need to be competitive every year. I think the only way you can force to teams to be competitive is to put a salary cap like the NFL. One of the the problems then becomes how do you convince major market teams to accept a salary cap when they can spend every dollar on anyone now.
“If there were no fans in the stands you could still make a profit.” - how timely lol
They predicted the future haha. Now in April 2022 that time is over but it’s still pretty funny.
teams lost money though
Scott Boras is just upset these lower payroll teams won't overpay for his clients. It's not because teams are cheap that all his free agents are still unsigned, it's because they are overvaluing their worth; especially in today's game where rookies are coming up from the minors and carrying their teams to the playoffs
Thank you. It's also known as, reaping what you sow...
I agree, any team that pays Harper what he wants is risking another average season. He had a great yr, 2015; nothing special to show after that. Andújar production’s was close to Machado’s, as a rookie...and a lot cheaper. Not to mention that Machado is a cancer in the dugout.
@@raydomenech7646 by "paying Harper what he wants", what that really means is "paying Harper what he's worth". The name alone is worth $275 million.
Nah, its collusion just like in the 80s....if this happens again this offseason Tony Clark should prepare a case for the courts....its not as obvious as the 80s, but it's getting there.
All the owners are millionaires. They can’t cry poverty
Look at the last three teams to win a World Series...Astros, Cubs, Royals. What do they all have in common? They all "tanked" and got top prospects and those top prospects were key cogs in their World Series championships. Just like Michael said, other GMs around the league are looking at the success of rebuilding and figure that is the best way to be successful as opposed to signing premiere free agents for way too much money like the Angels, Dodgers, Tigers, etc.
not to mention Astros were placed in an easier division. Cubs and Cardinals would’ve owned them
And now the stros will be good for at least another 5-10 years
did this guy just compare the Yankees to teams that have to tank? lmao
Incentivize progress. You can get top draft picks for finishing near the bottom two or maybe three years in a row. After that, the team must show improvement. If they do, they can continue to get strong draft picks. Also, teams that have been around .500 and not made the playoffs for many years in a row should also get priority for draft picks. Much better ideas than a salary floor.
I can't believe you commented this 3 years ago and noone said shit.... you're so right. That's a great idea
Baseball did implement a draft lottery which I agreed with. Just because you stink on purpose shouldn’t give you the top draft pick automatically.
@@kobyschechter8163 Yes. It's more like basketball now. Thank God they did that.
@@jakes3799 Hockey does a lottery as well.
@@kobyschechter8163 The problem is that draft picks are less important in baseball than other sports. There are owners that would rather not have the top pick because it means they wouldn't have to pay as much to sign them. The only way is to take away the right of a team to not spend. Implement a minimum spending threshold. Payroll must meet a minimum of $100 mil, and if is doesn't the owner/team gets fined the difference.
Every sport should have league wide lotteries for the draft. It’s ridiculous that the teams that do it right don’t get a thing but the pathetic teams get the best picks. It’s a joke
This video aged well 4:43 “the a’s have no chance to win”
Aidan Shiu LOOK WHAT HAPPENED BITCH
TheGodlyBeast they still won 97 games, never said anything about the playoffs
@@aidanshiu26 Getting bounced out of the playoffs in a heartbeat is NOT winning
Aidan Shiu 💚💛💚💛💚💛
Aidan Shiu the point of the video is still completely relevant though. The A’s winning in 2018 doesn’t change the fact that the system is broken.
Every sport does this though. Tanking plagues pro sports. That’s why in my opinion college basketball and football are better and more entertaining than the pro level.
Baseball is so deep though with minor leagues and it’s ridiculous player control systems which I believe need to be changed. That’s the real crux is that service time is so stressed teams won’t call up their best players until it fits “their schedule” even though guys might be mashing in the minors.
For baseball it’s also the looming free agency next year. With Machado, Harper and other big young free agents will be available.
Football doesn't have this
100 percent agree. For starters they should randomize the draft. With how well R&D has been the last 5 years with advanced numbers early draft picks are really starting to pan out where having an early pick does matter. Fix that for starters.
They should also fine the worst teams in baseball for finishing dead last. Like look at the AL central and NL east. It’s disgusting to see 3-4 teams in a division tank because there’s a super team.
cauchamar fuck that. Tigers were tanking hard
Notice that all these tanking teams, they all have small payrolls, you can’t compare the As or Padres to the Yankees. Tanking is the only way for small budget teams to get strong teams. When you have a 400 million dollar payroll, you can easily “rebuild” with 81-87 win season.
The fact that nobody mentions the insane bust rate of top baseball draft picks when talking about tanking in baseball is beyond me. This isn't like basketball. And before anyone mentions the cheating 2017 Astros, Correa and Bregs were the only top 10 Astros draft picks
Cubs
Stay mad that the astros won.
Draft order, rookie salaries, and guaranteed payouts were supposed to help lower income teams to be competitive but instead it created the tanking strategy to lose now and win later based on luxury tax resets and draft picks. There needs to be a way to "flatten" the payrolls to always have a competitive team and prevent these all star teams that franchises have saved up for.
What this shows is that there is a mismatch between player salaries and their values. You need to know the value of a win and a player's wins above replacement (both of which they know) and then price players accordingly.
The players demand money based on their marketing value, but the owners have long enough contracts that the marketing isn't where they make their money, at least in the short term. They can't do that forwever because it impacts their next contract, but they can do it mid-media contract to rebuild and get enough of a fan base afterward to have leverage for their next contract. Hence, the value of a good player is much lower and much shorter in duration than those players demand and only the teams looking to breal out and win now and renegotiate a new contract are incentivized to spend the money.
One option is that they mandate long-term media contracts are prorated based on wins. Set the contract price at 81 games. If you win 100 games, you get a 25% bonus on your deal. If you win 60 games, you just lost 25% on that deal. Maybe the bonuses and hits should be smaller, but the principal makes sense. You could also delay the payout by 3 years so that if you field a losing team, you have a few years to make up that revenue by playing better and if you do, you can borrow against your impending bonus to balance against the loss from 3 years earlier. But if you keep losing, your team will lose money. And even losing 1 season will cost you short-term profits so it is never an advantage to do it on purpose, just not fatal if it happens unintentionally once in a while.
"The Yankees, Dodgers, and Red Sox have $200 million payrolls meanwhile teams can just spend $45 million! Does that seem fair?" NO IT DOESNT maybe we shouldn't allow teams like the Yankees to spend that much!!! What a homer. Oh and btw, the A's CAN win even with that low payroll.
Boras is full of it. He’d being doing the exact same thing if he was running a team. If everyone competes to win at the same time ur odds of winning go down. Fans WILL understand losing now to win later. As Cubs fan I was perfectly happy sucking from 2011-2014 to win in the future. Boras is saying what he needs to say to get his clients signed unfortunately for him GM’s understand there’s no reason to give huge 6-7 year deals is not worth for players who will soon be out of their prime. The guy in this vid saying the Yankees won with out tanking is obviously forgetting the fact that the Yankees always have the biggest payroll in MLB and more or less bought their titles.
I knew Those 10 year deals would come back to haunt the game.
The Yankees have always spent money to stay competitive if need be, and that's why they have the largest fan base and the highest revenue. Staying competitive even when sometimes overpaying some players keeps casual fans interested. With the Yankees now rebuilt, after going through zero rebuilding years, they are at the top of the league again with the Astros, Dodgers, Cubs, etc. all without intentionally losing.
Yankees have Judge, Sanchez, Didi, Severino, Gray, etc
Also isn’t it funny that the Yankees no longer own a top 5 highest payroll? So they didn’t need to tank and started winning while cutting payroll...
“You play to win the game.”
Free agent signings sell tickets. They do not win baseball games. Owners NEED to invest in
player development. College coaches DESTROY young baseball players. Players in northern
states need a place to play year-round like they have in Toronto. Baseball is dying because
kids do not want to play and coaches do not know how to coach. Kids who want to play
have no place to play. MLB is killing their Golden Goose.
Totally agree this is a problem that needs to be fixed.
"You can point out the teams that are bagging it. The A's have no chance to win."
A's win 97 games.
A's also lost terribly and were out after a game
@@calbert6200 Still doesn’t change the fact that they won 97 games in 2018. Obviously Khris Davis led the MLB in home runs that year but the A’s didn’t have a true superstar. They played together as a team.
I disagree with Kay on this....even some of the teams he mentioned are not tanking or trying to tank....they have offers out there for free agents including Boras's....but they have a limit to what they want to spend on said player. Boras is screwed right now....all the high priced teams are trying to lower payroll because of the tax....so there isnt a money competition for guys like Hosmer.....so deals have him making 16 to 22 million max instead of over 30 if Yanks and Dodgers were in the mix. The other problem is that were are talking about positions that the teams are happy with currently....A's are an example....they have Matt Olsen at first base....23 years old and had 24 homeruns in under 200 at bats last year....why would the team want to spend 25 million for hosmer with this kids potential?
It still isn't fair if there is a floor, if teams like the dodgers and yankees can potentially have a 300 million dollar payroll. "Small market" teams will just be spending money for nothing except the hope that the baseball gods choose them to be the sleeper that year. We can argue in circles about this forever, the only "fair" way is having a hard cap and floor, no exceptions. But at that point you limit the best players from earning what they deserve. It's never going to work, this is close to the best system. Tanking is "fair to the fans" because they have a great chance to win a championship at the end of it. And good young players are exciting to watch.
If individual players deliberately throw a game to make extra money it's the ultimate crime in sports. Somehow, when an entire franchise does the same thing for an entire season ( sometimes multiple seasons) and for the same reason, it's considered acceptable. This deliberate choice to not be competitive influences the outcome of the entire season. It certainly undermines the integrity of the game when everybody knows some teams are trying to win and some of the team's they are playing are not. It may make short term financial sense for some teams to do this but over the long run the fans are just going to throw up their hand in.disgust and walk away.
I honestly have no fricken idea what Mr. Jeter is doing in Miami, but I’ll respect his business sense. Good Luck 🍀
Nobody gets it. I'm quite frankly laughing at his decisions now. That's sad because I grew up idolizing him.
I mean, he inherited a team that was $400 million in debt and a team that hasn't sniffed the playoffs since 2003. No one seems to get that they weren't going anywhere even with Gordon, Stanton, Ozuna, and Yelich.
Timmy Sullivan exactly Timmy, this rebuild is 100% necessary
Tim is absolutely right........the Jeter group paid 1.6 billion for the team and then found out that the marlins have a bad stadium contract, bad tv deal, bad attendance (We all know that....even with Stanton/Gordon/Ozuna and Yelich, Marlins still came in 30th in attendance last year) and the team has debts with other places and companies that still need to be done. They are not tanking to get a high draft pick....they are trying to balance the money before they can compete....could take years before they have enough.
+Tim McCane And then found out? You think they didnt know that before they made the purchase? Of course they did.
They could've just traded Stanton and came up with a different way to resolve the rest of the debt. If you are paying 1.6 billion for a team, whats another $100 million? Pennies. You dont trade away another 3 allstars (4 once they trade Realmuto) for borderline pro prospects and expect that to be a good decision moving forward. And better believe is Jose Fernandez was still alive they would've traded him too. Its a joke.
Do you think that now that they are "debt free" they wont be losing money again next season when they have 7,000 people a game and 90 percent is cheering for the other team?
The franchise is doomed and the sooner they are able to relocate, the better baseball will be.
"The Yankees care about their fans." Is that why chicken fingers and fries cost 30 dollars?
Okay, now that's just highway robbery.
Ram Rossman it’s not just there my guy it’s everywhere
That’s not the yankees that’s NY in general.
Easy for Kay to say this when the Yankees always spend
Jeffrey Herzberg other teams can spend they just don't choose to.
Basically the point is that by sucking for 3-4 years, and building through the draft is now frowned upon. Ummm, didn't the Yankees build their dynasty in the 90's the SAME EXACT WAY? (Bernie/Jeter/Posada/Rivera/Petite)
Jeffrey Herzberg Bernie and Rivera we're discovered by a scout, Petite was selected in the 24th round and Jeter and posada were signed to minor league deals at first.
Um hello, the POINT is that you build through the draft. Who cares how you get there. No longer should teams over spend on aging veterans just to win 84 games. You need to completely break it down and start fresh, THEN and ONLY THEN do you supplement that talent with veteran free agents. Look at the 1980s Mets, They drafted very well and added to that young core with Hernandez/Carter/Orosco etc.
Jeffrey Herzberg I mean the Yankees didn't have to "completely break it down" and instead they stayed competitive while making moves on the side. Then again, not every team has a Brian Cashman....
I think a good fix is expanding playoffs. In the national league the dodgers, cubs and nationals have had so much more money to spend and had dominating teams. Why would cincy Pittsburgh Miami San Diego push more money on the table just to try and get a one game wildcard birth. It’s not worth it. If more teams make it, more teams will be buyers at the deadline and go for it because anything can happen in October.
there should be unaffiliated minor league system of teams that could get promoted through a playoff system while the worst team in NL and AL gets relegated
As an O's fan, fuck yes
Scott Boras is closer to the correct answer than he knows, but he is incorrect. Tanking isn't destroying baseball. Scott Boras is destroying baseball.
Idk what drugs you were smoking while writing this inane comment, but tanking is indeed destroying Baseball. Not even half the league is ever competitive like ever, and that's good for the sport?
I agree that teams should not be rewarded to tank but come on, having Yankees guys be pissed that teams aren’t spending is ridiculous. Small Market teams can’t sign huge names out of nowhere and fix their problems. These teams have to develop players and can’t buy away their problems. Tanking is a huge issue but at the same time it’s one of the only ways smaller front offices can compete with the big dogs. If the MLB put in a payroll floor they would need to also put in a salary cap.
5 years ago Tigers, Royals, Giants, Orioles and Blue Jays were World Series contenders while Cubs, Astros, and Brewers were cellar dwellers, now the tables have turned
Is Michael Kay really that stupid that he doesn’t realize not every team in Major League Baseball has the luxury of spending big money like the Yankees, Red Sox or Dodgers. I’m sure there are some other teams I’m not mentioning as well but you get the point. It’s easy to say teams are tanking or not trying when you spend hundreds of millions of dollars almost every single offseason. It also has to do with agents overvaluing their players. I don’t know about all of you but I would be in no rush to sign Harper or Machado. Have teams not learned from 8-10 year deals and how often times they come back to bite a team in the ass? Look at Albert Pujols for example, in 2012 he signed for 10 years and 265 million dollars. Question since his contract, how many times have the Angels made the playoffs?
No...paying middling players hundreds of millions of dollars on decade long deals is “destroying” the sport. I want players to make money as well but Boras’ sole concern is extracting maximum value for his clients. Everyone talks about young stars getting screwed, nobody talks about veterans basically robbing teams for 5 plus years on the back end. We need a middle ground where players become RFA eligible after 4 years which will allow stars to get real money earlier. However that needs to be coupled with an NBA style max length contract of 5 years with your original team allowed to offer 6 years. This would see many stars getting fair value by age 23-26 and would incentivize teams to offer extensions even earlier. On the flip side the deals would expire in 28-31 age range giving sustainably great players a second massive 5/6 year deal which would actually be mostly worth it for teams. Even if the player regressed much earlier than expected the deal would have 2-3 years left, not 6-7. The best players would still make crazy money and might even get higher AAV’s considering length caps. Instead of a 10 year deal you’d sign 2 five year deals. This system would shuffle more money towards younger stars and would do a better job of making sure the right players were making the money. Watching Pujols/Miggy/Chris Davis etc cash checks for the last 5 years has been embarrassing.
completely agree. like giants fans keep going back and forth with if we should commit and sign kris bryant or not and that thought process is so sad. it shouldn't have to be that way, but it's only this way because of like you said, agents like scott boras have made it this way. same with corey seager. it would be great to go all in and spend a lot on these two who are perfect for the team's culture and attitude but the standard is that they'll want big contracts for 10-12 years when that's just too much to commit too. paying bryant or seager $30+ million a year for maximum 5 years is no big deal (especially for a team like the giants), but to have to commit to 1 or 2 expensive free agents for a whole decade is preposterous that it ends up with us not signing them at all. it's so stupid. they should have to prove themselves every 5 years. it just really stifles a team's growth when they have to be stuck with aging player for 10+ years without knowing what will happen with them injury or performance wise. these long contracts also give players the excuse to phone it in. if they had to re-earn their big scale salaries every 5 years, they'd put more yearly effort instead of knowing they'll get $20+ million a year for the rest of their career.
So we should all be mediocre?
who cares the league is better when the yankees,dodgers,cubs,red sox and markets woth young exciting teams like houston, mets,angels, indians,nationals, mariners(maybe)
As biased as I am I kind of agree. Brewers can be a cool mid market team like us to make some posrseason noice.
Houston isn't really a low market team
Regardless of the verdict of juries, no player that throws a ball game, no player that entertains proposals or promises to throw a game, no player that sits in a conference with a bunch of crooked players and gamblers where the ways and means of throwing games are discussed, and does not promptly tell his club about it, will ever again play professional baseball.
it's funny going back to this and hearing Kay saying Oakland doesn't intend to win, yet they made the wild card game
This is nothing new. The Pirates ownership figured out long ago that a last place team makes more money compared to investment than a high price winning team.
Really, the only way to fix things is to start from scratch with a new league that controls salaries, ticket costs and makes baseball affordable to fans for the long haul. Huge payrolls take passion out of the players. I'm not saying to not pay well, but imagine if your base salary was 200,000 year and then players get bonuses based upon performance, making the all-start game, getting MVP etc. Franchise players get capped at 1 million/year.
Just throwing out ideas here of course, but the bottom line is that something has to give in professional sports.
There have also been teams with small payrolls that win championships across all sports.
Any time a normal business isn't providing value to customers, the customers leave. For me, this one is on the fans. Stop supporting your team financially or with your time, until the ownership puts a product worth your attention on the market.
That's a shot to the Marlins!
Baseball is the only sport where a team drafting number 1 purposely doesn't take the consensus best player in the draft because he will cost more then another player taken. So with MLB the number 5 pick could get a $5 signing bonus and the number one pick to get a 3.5 million dollar signing bonus
Tanking works... Cubs built their whole team by tanking. Getting high draft picks, and unloading veterans is the way to win long term. You would be stupid not to tank. You can lose for 3 or 4 years... and then win for the next 12. OR you can be a middle of the road team like the Reds.
“I’m still numbuh one even when I’m not deer”- @BackAftaThis
Also the Yankees have other advantages that are hard to compare to other teams in different markets
Player salaries are out of control and this is a byproduct of that. Owners are greedy and don’t want to give their money away
If the Knicks or Rangers said we will do a full rebuild the fan base would be estatic why are they always bad? Because they NEVER tank free agency won’t win shit most players don’t deserve big money you win with young and veteran mix of guys and having great players before they get mega bucks... rangers just suck because they keep trading picks, yes they’ve been good but they have an all time great goalie for years with good players but never great... they realistically can’t win and there future is going to be miserable unless they embrace selling very soon... you win in the draft just accept it it sucks but cubs and Astros proved it.
Explain how the Phillies are tanking when they had one of the best 10 game stretches they had in the past 100 years this season
The Cubs didn’t tank they just rebuilt. They made the play the playoffs in 2007 and 2008 but then sold the team. They rebuilt the right way.
Baseball needs get rid of 6 to 8 teams , because cannot cheat the fans .
White Sox fans are pretty excited for the future after getting rid of all of their good players for perceived young talent. It's not called tanking or making an extreme profit in terms of the White Sox, it's called gearing up to be competitive in a couple years and not fielding mediocre rosters in the present day and making fans think they are trying to win. Furthermore, White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf has done a decent job of spending efficiently while not being cheap and not giving ridiculous contracts to players passed their prime.
Over / under how many times Michael takes off & puts on his glasses
540K x 25 guys= $13.5 Mil...👌 Nice price...
Forget Boras, as a fan of a team and have nothing to root for I’d be pissed
Who died when he said bass ackwards
4:59 he finally gave up the music career in favor of baseball. He’s gotta be in his late 60’s though.
Over 9 minutes of 2 guys reiterating the same point back and forth at eachother. Not that I disagree with them, but this video could have been 4 minutes long lol.
Michael, Michael, Michael...you don't "tank' at any time. What a horrible comment.
The volume on this video is so low!
What a bunch of utter nonsense. Boras' statement was about one thing, and one thing only, filling his pocket. Forward to 3 years later, look at the Padres and the White Sox, they're on top of their division. At least one of them is post season bound.
Just dont count past a certain game in the season
Destroying? Tanking is a good thing for baseball.
Watching this after 2018 season lol. A's: 97-65 record with 62 mil opening day payroll. Rays went 90-72 with 70 mil. Pretty cool.
Could we just move the marlins and rays to Montreal and New Orleans like 10 years ago?
There was never a team in new orleans 10 years ago.
Why would you sign Martinez when you could save that 20 mil and put it towards Harper or Machado next season
29jmiles Martinez is cheaper and is about as good of a hitter as Machado and a little worse than Harper
baseball is at it's best...overreacting nonsense
its ruining all major league sports
Why am I watching Michel Kay when I'm a jays fan
When these guys bought these teams didn’t anyone tell them that these players make millions of dollars a year?? If you can’t afford it don’t buy a team!!
540,000 * 25 = 13.5 million.
AND THEN OUR HATERS CRY CAUSE WE "BUY CHIPS" OR "SPEND TOO MUCH $".....please
Looks like he was wrong the A’s are defiantly trying to win right now
skimping on payroll is the right of the business in America .... end of story. Every business has the right to be in transition....does that mean a lousy record ? Absolutely. The fanbase is not above all.....EVER. B/c if the fanbase goes south the business suffers so its in the business's best interest to consider the fans...but they are not an end all. The health of the business is the end all.
Stop to consider fans love the game, win or lose.
Just a thought ....
Stop to consider how taxpayers have paid for stadiums for teams that billionaire owners are tanking.
dkarukas MLB is a business. Still loved by many, even if a team sticks. Fun going on a day off just to vent the mind from life’s busiest moments.
ZCorp Alpha I see your point but with that you just pointed out what fans don't want to see. Die hard fans don't want to see their prospective team throw games away. If that were the case anywhere in sports than it's no fun. Losing sucks bottom line.
C.J. Lawlor I guess I remember the 1980’s New York Yankees, growing up in the NY/NJ area in the 1980’s. Listening to the games on my portable radio 📻, while riding my bike 🚲. I was used to losing, but games were fun in the hot summers.
The Yankees weren't tanking in the 80s. They were still playing .500 ball.
Boras is certainly a man of integrity...lolol
The difference is astros and cubs won championships
Sports needs pay for play!
This is true. All this revenue sharing bs and these owners are taking the $$ and putting it in their pockets
the astros and the cubs werent being disgraceful they were in transition periods of taking over from poor management, the yankees have been blessed with high priced free agents and big name players for decades michael kay is right about the cap but his bias is too strong
Players association needs Donald Fehr back
Baseball teams tank, and its bad. but its alright in the NBA?
Highly agree
4:40 “The A’s have no chance to win”
Red Sox tank often and they still win the World Series
Scott Boros is destroying baseball.
The Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers are the only teams that actually have respect for their fans. All these other teams have absolutely zero respect for their fans. THat is clear. Ironically, everyone hates the Yankees and the Dodgers and claim that they are "bad for the game."
David Kast or it's because of money
Our owner ain’t that bad.
Too may teams.
Jeter ended up not the honorable man all of MLB made him to be.
Of course they tank for the top pick. What is the dude on the left talking about? Hello...astros & cubs. Every team knows this now. It's going to be a lot harder to do this now.
i don't think its neccesarily tanking. its more that fact that small market teams cant afford to over pay players and eat bad contracts like larger markets can.
@@kurtking8046 sorry....the cubs are far from a small market team.
Tell that to the Astros
Big money teams SHOULD be capped, if we are talking about fairness. Also not every fan is some uber-competitive jerk that will have a temper tantrum if their team isn't doing good. If they don't understand the strategy that says enough anyway.
Baseball needs a salary cap and get rid of the luxury tax, but the players won't go for it. So it's the players fault
seekr34 nooo
"The A's have no chance to win" while sitting in first in the AL West 🤣🤣 nice work that time, Michael
It's a monopoly. There's a union. Now there is pseudo socialism---redistribution of wealth. The further one gets from a pure free market the more distortion of incentives will creep in. When you try to fix one unintended consequence you'll end up creating others. It's a game of whack-a-mole.
I haven't given it any thought, but intuitively I liked DennisShumar11's idea, "randomize the draft". I'll always favor ideas tending in the direction of a free market, or replicating the incentive arrangements of a free market. It's never going to be perfect, I can tell you that much.
It is a free market. The NFL has a salary cap but the NFL is a free market. Don’t confuse rules with outside the game business. You’re retarded
@@austinhowser7838 It is a managed, regulated industry, and a de facto monopoly.
Kay is a Drama Queen
tanking is planning ahead, its great for the fans. never thought id see that day my Astros win a series but here we are
Scott Boras just pissed that not only small payroll but larger payrolls won’t overpay his clients (he’s banned negotiating with White Sox)
tanking is wrong
Todays agents just can't sell.