But that is specifically for racing games like this where the cubemap reflections absolutely need to be dynamic. This technique has been used since Need for speed Underground or even earlier. Normal cubemaps are not dynamic and don't capture the environment on the fly like that and are just a simple static image.
As gamers we are so used to playing with just cubemap reflections that we don't even think about the car having self-reflections. It's a good implementation of raytracing that's for sure.
The one RT feature I want added to this game is just to see the Rear View Mirror reflecting the back half of the car. I know, that part of the car isn't normally modeled from the interior camera so it's not just a matter of adding RT reflections, but in terms of "Immersion" it would be a huge step up finally being able to see how well, or not well, the rear view mirrors actually work in sports cars.
@@anikdey2100 You're right the model exists, but I can pretty well guarantee the only thing being rendered in gameplay is the dashboard, they don't even let you look more than 45 degrees to the side without changing camera view to eliminate the car model.
Why the hell would you want to do that? You already have the dash taking up 70% of the screen now you want to see the back of the car in the mirror too?
@@nitmare64 NO it looks just fine as just about anything made within Unreal Engine. You may not like it, that's your problem and far from the general consensus.
It really is shit, though not sure how much they'll trash on it since much of the problems are down to art and the disconnect between low poly models on one side and modern lighting/new textures.
They couldn't even make rain work right. It's tied to the location of your player model, and disappears over water. It looks so, so bad, to the point where it kinda hurts your eyes. And they removed ALL fog while not bringing up LOD to snuff, so on top of the map looking small from Chiliad, it looks crap.
It kills me that I still haven’t had a chance to play. This is unbelievably good-looking. Every year it’s harder and harder to understand how we’ve gotten here from my childhood. I don’t think I would have believed that game tech would avoid falling into mundanity for this long. Each new year brings titles that are fantastical in their own rights. After over 3 decades, games are still magic.
@@rockapartie I was actually really surprised how much more realistic cloth physics affect the perception of an animation of a person. I follow this channel that uploads examples from CS and computer graphics research papers and some of the stuff university researchers are working on looks insane and has gotten to the point that it renders real time while looking very close to real-world physics. I’m really excited for the future.
And this is basically only first gen of raytracing, I remember when shaders became a thing and my old GPU couldn't run the chameleon paints in NFS underground and for some reason the crowds were also unavailable. We made massive improvements since then. Next gen of RT might handle multiple bounces easily or the full screen of reflections, then comes the hard stuff like all the effects at once and then glass bending light and accurate diffuse materials raytracing. You will know it peaked when caustics from refractions and reflections or just water are raytraced.
Damn you Alex, I am adamant I’m a console gamer but you do keep doing these videos and tempting me to jump into PC gaming!! Informative, and entertaining as always! 👍
DF are the best. It's a shame in a way that many people think RTX is a waste of compute power, but it's also fortunate because it can be expensive and goes to show how the smart economic processing methods like cube mapping are just good enough for games in motion.
RTX is mostly a waste of compute power. Is it better than screen space reflections or smartly implemented cube maps- yes, but not to the degree where it’s worth crushing performance. SSR still looks amazing. I think RTX is better used for lighting
I totally agree. RTX is a technical curiosity for the informed enthusiast, with a disposable income. With current hardware, it's a solution looking for a problem. We all know that this is the future, it's just that this can't be built overnight... End-to-end tool-chains still need time. I suspect this'll take years
@@rickrodriguez6244 if GPUs get powerful enough it would save a lot of dev time if everything can be ray traced. This is good for developers more than gamers, since very well hand crafted manually placed stuff can look just as good it and is much more optimized/performant, but its an inconvenience for devs. In the future it would suck if RT were the only option for us, because although performance would be solid we'd probably be able to hit things like higher res or higher settings if RT wasn't taking up computing power in said future games.
@@Hybred I agree on saving development time- But we are a long ways off from that. Most people cant afford to drop a thousand dollars on a top of the line GPU- and even if they could, they’re impossible to find right now and even the 3080 cannot reliably output 4K with RTX on in triple A titles reliably at an ideal frame rate. We are just now getting to the point where 4K resolutions are becoming the standard. Enabling RTX across the board crushes resolution and performance- I feel like thats taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back just to have slightly prettier reflections and lighting. DSR is a great tool to help with that- but until AMD can come up with something competitive, it’s just not gonna work for most
@@rickrodriguez6244 the problem is after moving back to games that use screen space reflections after playing ray traced versions of other games. If there is foliage around a body of water within the view frustum for example, there’s often way too much artifacting or disappearing reflections in the screen space solution. It’s quite noticeable. But for Forza, one barely notices the difference.
Can't resist but to think that what looks like a "long time ago", racing games used to use aggressive optimisation efforts because the high pacing action would actually make it unnecessary to render things with better quality. That's basically bread and butter in the trade off to get the much needed 60fps in this type of games. Now here I am, looking at how good a reflection is with ray tracing light on a racing car flying at 100mph. We went a long way, I guess.
actually, this game renders the environment in less detail when you drive quickly. this is described in the DIRECTX 12 ULTIMATE's (VARIABLE RATE SHADING)
In-game RT or not, this game is drop-dead gorgeous. This video is an excellent look at what tangible gains can be seen over cube-maps vs performance cost on current hardware.
The video doesn't show at all about the gains over cube maps because the RT reflections that were enabled here never actually replace the cube maps. You go from having zero self reflections to having self reflections. All surfaces that had cube maps continue to do so. The difference would have been night and day if the mod somehow did replace all cube maps with RT reflections but that would either break the game or be cost prohibitive.
Probably didn't because it makes their brand new next gen consoles look weak. That's my guess at least. Ray tracing is a big marketing point for consoles this gen. If you have it on the PC version then it just highlights the fact that it's missing from the console versions.
I don't get why they don't implemented Gameplay-RT in the PC version, when it takes community modders a couple days to enable. I hope they will implement it in the future.
They did implement it, they just don't let you turn it on in main game. If I'm not mistaken, all the mod does is use the existing RT implementation from Forzavista while you're in the main game. Why did they not allow this as an option in the graphics though? No idea, I'm also confused there
Because its not the next gen engine, it probably wasn't optimised enough to run on console. They obviously didn't want to give PC a marketable feature, but I think the decision was made quite late as the first 'in game' trailer and half of the loading screen images have RT now they've been caught nerfing the pc version for console parity, I hope they stop being stubborn and officially implement it
the car reflecting on itself is all this adds. there is no RT in the world at all with this mod, because they don't have that feature in their game engine. It would require a ton of work to re-engineer this game for global ray tracing.
@@existentialselkath1264 Selling PC version is pretty much equivalent to selling a console version because of cross-buy.. Besides, they literally have the AMG One showing the self-reflection while on a road on the cover art.
I just downloaded Horizon 5 since there's a Gamepass trial going on, bought the 2018 Civic Type-R (I drive a normal 2017 Civic) and was impressed with how accurate the interior was. Even the digital gauge cluster had the exact design/animation as the real car.
This what I did for almost every Forza Horizon game (I drive 2014 Civic). I find myself after the first game not even really "playing" it rather mostly dicking around and admiring the graphics through my "car".
2:17 🤯 I immediately noticed the hybrid of cubemaps and RT, this is the most realistic we can get with a single bounce. As long as it works for other than 100% smooth materials.
This screenshot at 4:40 looks like a CGI render. We're getting there. Hopefully one day we'll have high quality RT reflections and lighting with no hacks or reductions.
I recall back when seeing NFS ProStreet promo arts the cars looked real with reflections and everything. Opened that CG on my computer (yes I kept it for many years) and can confirm FH5 with RT is still not quite there because of the lighting. Look at the tires in the wheel arch, it's too bright for where it is. But it's hella close now.
While RT looks nice, i would rather have on Series X a new mode that is like quality mode but with 60fps and lower resolution. Those popups in performance mode are quite annoying and disracting after several hours of playing. And 30fps just doesnt feel good after playing with 60fps.
man i get 75 stable on extreme settings with this mod on and on setting 3 pc they really made this game well optimized at least on pc i only running a rtx 2060 super funny how I build my new pc for about 1k and a week later the card was worth 500 bucks and now its 1000 bucks for my card 8g model crazy days we live in
@@glenntinamiller6199 I paid 250 for a 'faulty' 1080 ti but after putting it into my system and seeing it work, i wanted ray tracing so i sold it for 500 and got a 3060.
@@mryellow6918 Why is that so hard to believe? The current gen consoles are running equivalents to last gen nvidia 2000 series gpus and 3000 series amd cpus. Those were good pretty much for 1440p. Now we are way past that with current CPU’s and gpus getting the same numbers now but at 4K. The consoles are always going to be behind when we have refreshes every year and new design parts every two years. By the time consoles get something that is claimed as a “big advancement”. We have already had it for years and used it up.
So glad this was discovered. I was so disappointed when it wasn't an option in the default game. A lot of my friends haven't been so excited, but to me, the idea of "Holy shit, you can *see* the car *on itself!*" is just one of those things I never thought we would see in games as a youth. It also makes photos look fantastic.
@@rockapartie nah the game just has a static res scaler right? Seems like dynamic is only on console right now. I play at native 4K since that helps the most with aliasing imo.
@@ISirSmoke TAA also blurs the image but ghosting will be an issue on this. On Cyberpunk for instance when driving there is so much ghosting it looks absolutely terrible and in Forza you can drive even faster so it would be worse.
Its certainly the most transformational use to make a game "feel" life-like, but reflections can make a big difference too such as Watch Dogs Legion. What I don't understand are games that use ONLY RT shadows. If all the effects in a game, shadows are always what I will turn down to allow me to crank everything else, as the make the least difference to me in the "feel" of the game.
I think the reason it isnt so profound here is the limitation to the car and it not affecting the whole game world like you said via lighting. Global illuminated raytracing would be nice to see especially since we sorta have shortcuts that exists now to get a similar effect but at a much lower performance cost (think Crysis Voxel tracing and the system Unreal engine 5 uses)
The way I see it, lighting with RT makes a game look real at a glance, and reflection with RT makes a game look real when you look up close. This is especially true in racing games, where the most computing power can be used on a single model.
I think we still have plenty of amazing implementations to come in current-gen, but that wont come until we ditch cross-platform support. Sadly that may never come this-gen if they have to continue to support PCs unable to handle RT. Its going to be hard enough to start releasing games that make a fast SSD mandatory.
@@Samota0 Look at the vids of my channel and see who's laughing, you're too broke to own any pc hardware obviously the raytracing on the arkham knight videos on my page are superior to what the raytracing in this game lmao, what are you talking about there's literally no comparison, raytracing only looks good depending on the setting on the game, the lighting, reflections, and shadows there's barely a difference with raytracing in this game
There are limitations to SSR though. Such as a low body of water reflecting light a certain way and then you hit a crest of a hill and that imitation reflection suddenly vanishes and comes back again when you are level :)
For an open world, cross-gen game FH5 is a graphical masterpiece. It's also the best racing game I've ever played. Can't wait to see what the community does with design lab. Give me HALO!!!!
I’m usually always for ray tracing but because of how you view this game and how expensive it is to run already i just don’t see the gains vs the performance cost here. The side by side shots with off/on RT looked extremely similar at that rear angle. The same angle you’ll have for 90% of your playtime. Sure it’s nice to just look at your car sometimes and in those moments you’d get more use of it. But without DLSS this is sadly a pass for me 😞
Id trade out texture quality for RT any day, in motion everything around you gets blurred so much you could get away with 1080p textures, but the car is still crystal clear so RT would be better. That being said, textures below extreme are bugged and revert to low right now, so idk
I tend to agree, and am playing at 4k/60 on a 3080. Frankly I'd rather use any headroom i can find for more anti-aliasing vs this given how distracting the shimmering edges can be, even at native 4k, 4xMSAA, plus AA enhancement in the Nvidia Control Panel
Followed the steps provided and it didn't work for me. Not seeing any reflected mirrors or spoilers in my game. Looks like others are having similar issues
6:36 they actually stopped tracing the ray when it hit the glass, crating a black wall instead. The easiest solution to not have to raytrace through multiple transparencies.
I agree 100% with this. Any fast moving game really is the same, shooters, sports and even games like spideraman where you only notice the better reflections when you stop moving.
Makes me wonder why Playground Games didn’t enable any Ray tracing outside of forzavista considering they already have the tech implemented. Maybe they will offer something in a future update.
probably because the consoles wouldnt handle it. on my series S when i enter the forza vista mode and the rt enables i can clearly see the resolution drops to 1080p, when in normal gameplay it is 1440p. and this is the quality mode where its at 30fps. the series x could probably handle rt in gameplay but definitely not at 4k like it is currently.
Boy, I was CONVINCED we had reached the pinnacle of realism when this video started, and then that racer on a motorcycle struck a light pole at 0:23 and sent the light pole flying through the air, and that brought me back to reality REAL quick.
Doesn't this game have anti cheat? I can't say i'd recommend even opening cheat engine with it around let alone actually tweaking the game doing it. That would risk your entire xbox account would it not?
Very cool. If the Nvidia control panel's Transparency Anti-aliasing works as well in FH5 as it does in Forza Horizon 4, that in conjunction with this mod could provide the best graphics experience in the game. Once you see those trees and foliage around you and on the horizon without the shimmering you'd normally see, its hard to go back to anything else.
Using transparency AA to enhance my 4xMSAA at 4k on a RTX 3080. Still a lot of shimmering. 8x is better but too heavy, and still not even all the way there.
I found forcing transparency in FH5 with control panel doesn't work as well as it did in FH3 (didn't try it in FH4). So now I'm just running at 4k with 8x MSAA and FXAA. It clears up most of the shimmer on a 1440p monitor. The game looks super clean without any TAA blur, FXAA does blur the image but I'm okay with it so far.
There's an automated steering option. I think FM6 Apex might have introduced this feature on PC. I Could be wrong I never played the Xbox One Forza games.
Great video and great work by Frosticles, it'd be interesting to see some videos by modders on how they create their mods and the problems they overcome to get them released to such a high standard.
@@abhijeetdey Next gen consoles always look bad against $4000+ PCs I don't see this as a problem. Most console gamers simply don't care, and most PC players can't afford it. But it's a fantastic chance to sell the game, I'm surprised they didn't see that.
7:31 "There is now RT affecting the Car in an obvious way", I literally cannot tell the difference without the Label at the bottom xD But amazing explanations for everything, thanks Alex + DF team!
Obvious to graphics news when they are looking for it. You show someone that shot of the blue hood and headlight and they might not even notice its not a real photo.
Digital Foundry: here is a 12 minute video showing how RT makes the car look better in the game. Look closely at this side mirror. Me, after intently watching the whole video: In all scenes where the car is actually driving, I can't see the difference.
It's interesting, but definitely not worth it to enable. The difference in gameplay is so minor, it's no wonder they didn't add it into the game. The cube maps do a great job and unless you stop to analyze the reflections, the inaccuracies are never going to stand out, and with that said even with RT on the reflection are only slightly more accurate, still not accurate to how reflections really work at all.
Don't speak for everyone. I personally have been waiting for a racing game with uncompromised graphical detail for AGES. Not to mention that the game is still running well over 60fps with RT reflection ON. Last game that got almost too close to this level was Driveclub, despite the pathetic fps. Racing games had self-reflection in CG artworks since the beginning of the century, they clearly know that this is a big deal towards realistic graphics.
@@fcukugimmeausername yeah its exactly the same game they keep making. yet somehow the character animations and presentation of everything before an event/race still looks awful like the crowd models. also theres no AA and the LOD is awful. im trying to figure out what people love about forza horizon 5, maybe they havent played the first 4?
@@brucetus Not sure. Each to their own though. I loved the first one and the third one was great. But yeah... it's the same game. Even UI elements remain unchanged.
I know RT heads don't wanna here this, but the Real Time Cube Maps look just as good and doesn't kill the performance. The more I see analysis content like this the more I just don't care about Ray Tracing. Even if the technology is technically better, like anything else in the world if someone else can do the same thing cheaper then that's what we go with!
The reflections in the mirrors and on the car look pretty attrocious I dont know what youre talking about. look at 6:13 and the game doesnt have raytracing against the environment just the car itself so you cant compare the cube map quality to what raytracing can do since that form of ray tracing isnt implemented in this game. And the cube maps on the back of flat cars like the jeep look abominable,
Those square boxes on the windshield aren't from RT. Those are on a couple of my cars too and just seem to be bugged. Tinting the windows helped hide those a lot.
These games look so good that it took me a second to see that the raytracing version does infact look better. But to be fair, I've been playing switch games for so long, that anything on my PS5 and PC looks like the best thing ever to my eyes.
All this looks neat for the purposes of a video like this one, but even if they add it, I wouldn't play with it turned on. In a game where you're constantly on the move, like this one, the performance hit is to high for basically shinier cars.
That explanation of a cubemap was wonderful, I never fully understood them until now, but the way you put it makes so much sense!
Me too
Same here
But that is specifically for racing games like this where the cubemap reflections absolutely need to be dynamic. This technique has been used since Need for speed Underground or even earlier. Normal cubemaps are not dynamic and don't capture the environment on the fly like that and are just a simple static image.
Shoutout to this video an you guys in this comment thread. You made me smarter today.
Yeah i have learnt a lot about how lighting works in games from Alex too :)
As gamers we are so used to playing with just cubemap reflections that we don't even think about the car having self-reflections. It's a good implementation of raytracing that's for sure.
@@thesaintnoodle I think GT7 is going to nail RT reflections on vehicles.
💯💯
@@SkeleCrafteronYT lol
@@JudeTheTH-camPoopersubscribe this didn't age well lol
@@SkeleCrafteronYT gt7 don't have ''real-time'' reflections.
The one RT feature I want added to this game is just to see the Rear View Mirror reflecting the back half of the car.
I know, that part of the car isn't normally modeled from the interior camera so it's not just a matter of adding RT reflections, but in terms of "Immersion" it would be a huge step up finally being able to see how well, or not well, the rear view mirrors actually work in sports cars.
It is modelled though. In forza vista you can open the doors and enter inside and inspect every detail. They are fully modelled and textured.
@@anikdey2100 You're right the model exists, but I can pretty well guarantee the only thing being rendered in gameplay is the dashboard, they don't even let you look more than 45 degrees to the side without changing camera view to eliminate the car model.
Why the hell would you want to do that? You already have the dash taking up 70% of the screen now you want to see the back of the car in the mirror too?
some of the cars probably have digital rear view mirrors though.
@@WheeledHamster really?
"here, this is me driving around in a chrome plated car... for demonstration purposes." Nice save Alex.
Rich: How many Forza videos do we want?
Rich: YES
Alex: Did I hear RAYTRACING?!?
Meanwhile in the GTA video:
"Which version do you recommend, Rich?"
"NO."
!!
Think we really need the digital foundry GTA trilogy breakdown comparison asset video
oh we'll get it. problem was rockstar didn't send out review codes early
Why? We all know it mostly looks like trash! You seen those screenshots? oh lawd!
@@nitmare64 i think the game worlds look great
@@nitmare64 NO it looks just fine as just about anything made within Unreal Engine. You may not like it, that's your problem and far from the general consensus.
@@dedecoVGMDJ it looks like an xbox 360 game
Looking forward to the GTA trilogy massacre video
It really is shit, though not sure how much they'll trash on it since much of the problems are down to art and the disconnect between low poly models on one side and modern lighting/new textures.
@@omarcomming722 agreed the issues are way more fundamental than just a performance comparison
They couldn't even make rain work right. It's tied to the location of your player model, and disappears over water. It looks so, so bad, to the point where it kinda hurts your eyes.
And they removed ALL fog while not bringing up LOD to snuff, so on top of the map looking small from Chiliad, it looks crap.
It was a cash grab and a joke at besg
Not very hopeful for GTA 6 now. If it ever comes out, that is!
Really great to see this get a full video, shout out to Frosticles for finding this and helping so many people mess about with it.
YWNBAW
It kills me that I still haven’t had a chance to play. This is unbelievably good-looking. Every year it’s harder and harder to understand how we’ve gotten here from my childhood. I don’t think I would have believed that game tech would avoid falling into mundanity for this long. Each new year brings titles that are fantastical in their own rights. After over 3 decades, games are still magic.
The game is stunning and well optimised, GP is £1 on PC right now for 3 months.
@@darthwiizius Oh yeah. I have Game Pass for sure… just been very busy this week. Finally going to play it tonight.
@@rockapartie I was actually really surprised how much more realistic cloth physics affect the perception of an animation of a person. I follow this channel that uploads examples from CS and computer graphics research papers and some of the stuff university researchers are working on looks insane and has gotten to the point that it renders real time while looking very close to real-world physics. I’m really excited for the future.
@@rickjamesia
Haha fair play. I think you'll basically agree it's an upgrade from FH4.😀
And this is basically only first gen of raytracing, I remember when shaders became a thing and my old GPU couldn't run the chameleon paints in NFS underground and for some reason the crowds were also unavailable. We made massive improvements since then. Next gen of RT might handle multiple bounces easily or the full screen of reflections, then comes the hard stuff like all the effects at once and then glass bending light and accurate diffuse materials raytracing. You will know it peaked when caustics from refractions and reflections or just water are raytraced.
Damn you Alex, I am adamant I’m a console gamer but you do keep doing these videos and tempting me to jump into PC gaming!! Informative, and entertaining as always! 👍
DF are the best. It's a shame in a way that many people think RTX is a waste of compute power, but it's also fortunate because it can be expensive and goes to show how the smart economic processing methods like cube mapping are just good enough for games in motion.
RTX is mostly a waste of compute power. Is it better than screen space reflections or smartly implemented cube maps- yes, but not to the degree where it’s worth crushing performance. SSR still looks amazing. I think RTX is better used for lighting
I totally agree. RTX is a technical curiosity for the informed enthusiast, with a disposable income. With current hardware, it's a solution looking for a problem. We all know that this is the future, it's just that this can't be built overnight... End-to-end tool-chains still need time. I suspect this'll take years
@@rickrodriguez6244 if GPUs get powerful enough it would save a lot of dev time if everything can be ray traced. This is good for developers more than gamers, since very well hand crafted manually placed stuff can look just as good it and is much more optimized/performant, but its an inconvenience for devs.
In the future it would suck if RT were the only option for us, because although performance would be solid we'd probably be able to hit things like higher res or higher settings if RT wasn't taking up computing power in said future games.
@@Hybred I agree on saving development time- But we are a long ways off from that. Most people cant afford to drop a thousand dollars on a top of the line GPU- and even if they could, they’re impossible to find right now and even the 3080 cannot reliably output 4K with RTX on in triple A titles reliably at an ideal frame rate. We are just now getting to the point where 4K resolutions are becoming the standard. Enabling RTX across the board crushes resolution and performance- I feel like thats taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back just to have slightly prettier reflections and lighting. DSR is a great tool to help with that- but until AMD can come up with something competitive, it’s just not gonna work for most
@@rickrodriguez6244 the problem is after moving back to games that use screen space reflections after playing ray traced versions of other games. If there is foliage around a body of water within the view frustum for example, there’s often way too much artifacting or disappearing reflections in the screen space solution. It’s quite noticeable. But for Forza, one barely notices the difference.
The game looks simple incredible with RT
Nice choice with the Tib Sun soundtrack playing in the background!
Thank you, that was really nagging me! (Where the track was from)
Can't resist but to think that what looks like a "long time ago", racing games used to use aggressive optimisation efforts because the high pacing action would actually make it unnecessary to render things with better quality. That's basically bread and butter in the trade off to get the much needed 60fps in this type of games.
Now here I am, looking at how good a reflection is with ray tracing light on a racing car flying at 100mph. We went a long way, I guess.
actually, this game renders the environment in less detail when you drive quickly. this is described in the DIRECTX 12 ULTIMATE's (VARIABLE RATE SHADING)
In-game RT or not, this game is drop-dead gorgeous. This video is an excellent look at what tangible gains can be seen over cube-maps vs performance cost on current hardware.
yes but with RT it gets to photorealistic graphics which cant be found on consoles.
unless your a fanboy then its just trash
love this game
The video doesn't show at all about the gains over cube maps because the RT reflections that were enabled here never actually replace the cube maps. You go from having zero self reflections to having self reflections. All surfaces that had cube maps continue to do so. The difference would have been night and day if the mod somehow did replace all cube maps with RT reflections but that would either break the game or be cost prohibitive.
5:08
it's called TRASHtracing, as expected of weakstation 5 / weakbox series x
It would be more gorgeous if it didn’t crash constantly. It still doesn’t beat Drive Club!!!!
Differences are so subtle i wouldn't notice it playing the game.
I would
@@Slickini ok big man. 🙄
@@Slickini You should be keeping your eyes on the road, not on the arse of your car 😜
@@RoganGunn Then they should remove the 3rd person view completely 😃
5:08
it's called TRASHtracing, as expected of weakstation 5 / weakbox series x
it's interesting how we want this on games, and on real life we'd do anything to kill glare or distracting secondary reflections inside a car
Not exactly we just want more realistic reflections not more of them he was just choosing shiny cars to better show off the effect
This should have launched as an option. Appreciate the video Alex!
They could've if they had dlss implemented or if the 4090 was already out lol
@@qwertmom Why? It was running fine with current hardware in the video.
@@iiXboxLiive Yeah I just finished the video and realized that lol
Probably didn't because it makes their brand new next gen consoles look weak. That's my guess at least. Ray tracing is a big marketing point for consoles this gen. If you have it on the PC version then it just highlights the fact that it's missing from the console versions.
@@Redonepunch exactly the pc version was kinda gimped.
I don't get why they don't implemented Gameplay-RT in the PC version, when it takes community modders a couple days to enable. I hope they will implement it in the future.
Cannot make your shiny new console look bad
They did implement it, they just don't let you turn it on in main game. If I'm not mistaken, all the mod does is use the existing RT implementation from Forzavista while you're in the main game. Why did they not allow this as an option in the graphics though? No idea, I'm also confused there
Because its not the next gen engine, it probably wasn't optimised enough to run on console.
They obviously didn't want to give PC a marketable feature, but I think the decision was made quite late as the first 'in game' trailer and half of the loading screen images have RT
now they've been caught nerfing the pc version for console parity, I hope they stop being stubborn and officially implement it
the car reflecting on itself is all this adds. there is no RT in the world at all with this mod, because they don't have that feature in their game engine. It would require a ton of work to re-engineer this game for global ray tracing.
@@existentialselkath1264 Selling PC version is pretty much equivalent to selling a console version because of cross-buy.. Besides, they literally have the AMG One showing the self-reflection while on a road on the cover art.
6:41 The woman driving has a face of "OMG I JUST REALIZED I LEFT THE STOVE ON!"
I just downloaded Horizon 5 since there's a Gamepass trial going on, bought the 2018 Civic Type-R (I drive a normal 2017 Civic) and was impressed with how accurate the interior was. Even the digital gauge cluster had the exact design/animation as the real car.
Sometimes I just sit inside the interior of multiple vehicles in ForzaVista because the attention to detail is just stunning
This what I did for almost every Forza Horizon game (I drive 2014 Civic).
I find myself after the first game not even really "playing" it rather mostly dicking around and admiring the graphics through my "car".
Love modding videos from you Alex! It's been a while.
2:17 🤯 I immediately noticed the hybrid of cubemaps and RT, this is the most realistic we can get with a single bounce. As long as it works for other than 100% smooth materials.
That ray tracing reflection is a good start! One other feature I wish was present in Forza is raytraced reflections on water surface.
It's impressive how good the lighting is without ray tracing
This screenshot at 4:40 looks like a CGI render. We're getting there. Hopefully one day we'll have high quality RT reflections and lighting with no hacks or reductions.
I recall back when seeing NFS ProStreet promo arts the cars looked real with reflections and everything. Opened that CG on my computer (yes I kept it for many years) and can confirm FH5 with RT is still not quite there because of the lighting. Look at the tires in the wheel arch, it's too bright for where it is.
But it's hella close now.
actually I've been fooled by forza horizon 5 screenshots on facebook many times
Fake advertising is really old, none of the games looked like their art.
While RT looks nice, i would rather have on Series X a new mode that is like quality mode but with 60fps and lower resolution. Those popups in performance mode are quite annoying and disracting after several hours of playing. And 30fps just doesnt feel good after playing with 60fps.
man i get 75 stable on extreme settings with this mod on and on setting 3 pc they really made this game well optimized at least on pc i only running a rtx 2060 super funny how I build my new pc for about 1k and a week later the card was worth 500 bucks and now its 1000 bucks for my card 8g model crazy days we live in
@@glenntinamiller6199 I paid 250 for a 'faulty' 1080 ti but after putting it into my system and seeing it work, i wanted ray tracing so i sold it for 500 and got a 3060.
Wait the xbox x plays at 30 fps? Wtf
@@mryellow6918 Why is that so hard to believe? The current gen consoles are running equivalents to last gen nvidia 2000 series gpus and 3000 series amd cpus. Those were good pretty much for 1440p. Now we are way past that with current CPU’s and gpus getting the same numbers now but at 4K. The consoles are always going to be behind when we have refreshes every year and new design parts every two years. By the time consoles get something that is claimed as a “big advancement”. We have already had it for years and used it up.
@@Skater6453 my 2080 plays this game at 60+
So glad this was discovered. I was so disappointed when it wasn't an option in the default game. A lot of my friends haven't been so excited, but to me, the idea of "Holy shit, you can *see* the car *on itself!*" is just one of those things I never thought we would see in games as a youth. It also makes photos look fantastic.
Yeah same here
I’d rather have a mod to reduce pop in but I guess this is cool too
@@RedGaming44 Amen man!!!
But the ray tracing option is on the microsoft store version of forza 5, you can set it to ultra but the game crashes after the tutorial :(
@@rockapartie nah the game just has a static res scaler right? Seems like dynamic is only on console right now. I play at native 4K since that helps the most with aliasing imo.
I wish this game had modern TAA and DLSS -- the MSAA leaves so much visible aliasing in the image even on 4x / 8x.
Shurup
TAA ghosting will be awful on this
@@ISirSmoke TAA also blurs the image but ghosting will be an issue on this. On Cyberpunk for instance when driving there is so much ghosting it looks absolutely terrible and in Forza you can drive even faster so it would be worse.
@@VerticalStrafes TAA in Cyberpunk isn't that good for that situation. For racing games you'd need way more aggressive rejection for the reprojection.
@@ausardash ?
You gotta love modders. Awesome stuff, I can't wait to try this out.
so... can the ray trace mode disable the Cubemaps and have the entire world reflections be done via Ray tracing?
It sure could!
If you got a quantum computer you could render every pixel correctly! ;-)
Nope.
it would require a lot of work to recreate a low complexity world, just for raytracing. Unless you raytraced the main world on a supercomputer at 1fps
At 2fps, maybe
@@existentialselkath1264 they already have a low complexity world, it's used for the real time cubemap and rear view mirrors.
amazing video, thanks! :D
Honestly speaking raytracing is only noticeable when used for lighting. The cubemap and screen space reflections work pretty well on a racing game.
Its certainly the most transformational use to make a game "feel" life-like, but reflections can make a big difference too such as Watch Dogs Legion.
What I don't understand are games that use ONLY RT shadows. If all the effects in a game, shadows are always what I will turn down to allow me to crank everything else, as the make the least difference to me in the "feel" of the game.
I think the reason it isnt so profound here is the limitation to the car and it not affecting the whole game world like you said via lighting. Global illuminated raytracing would be nice to see especially since we sorta have shortcuts that exists now to get a similar effect but at a much lower performance cost (think Crysis Voxel tracing and the system Unreal engine 5 uses)
And audio..... which people forget about
The way I see it, lighting with RT makes a game look real at a glance, and reflection with RT makes a game look real when you look up close. This is especially true in racing games, where the most computing power can be used on a single model.
@@glenmcl this needs to get more popular real soon.
Good to see you back, guys!!!
5:38: I tried moving Alex's cursor off the screen. :(
Thanks for explaining cubemaps. Now I understand! At last!
I think it's awesome that Ray Tracing has come this far. It just seems like it will take another generation or two to nail it with enough horsepower.
I think we still have plenty of amazing implementations to come in current-gen, but that wont come until we ditch cross-platform support. Sadly that may never come this-gen if they have to continue to support PCs unable to handle RT. Its going to be hard enough to start releasing games that make a fast SSD mandatory.
they gen just started, and you can already had raytracing to any game on PC with reshade
@@eclisis5080 ...You must be one hell of a comedian cause that reshade statement had me rolling.
@@Samota0 Look at the vids of my channel and see who's laughing, you're too broke to own any pc hardware obviously the raytracing on the arkham knight videos on my page are superior to what the raytracing in this game lmao, what are you talking about there's literally no comparison, raytracing only looks good depending on the setting on the game, the lighting, reflections, and shadows there's barely a difference with raytracing in this game
@@eclisis5080 My sides man! You're killing me. I haven't laughed this hard in a long time!
What I like most about the ray tracing, is being able to see the body of my own car in the side mirrors.
Honestly the game doesn't even need RT because it looks SOOOO REAL even without RT.
There are limitations to SSR though. Such as a low body of water reflecting light a certain way and then you hit a crest of a hill and that imitation reflection suddenly vanishes and comes back again when you are level :)
oh God.. the quality of DF videos are unmatched..
For an open world, cross-gen game FH5 is a graphical masterpiece. It's also the best racing game I've ever played. Can't wait to see what the community does with design lab. Give me HALO!!!!
you asked for some halo?
If this is the best racing game you've played I want to know how many racing games you've played lol
Great video Alex, I also appreciate the Tiberian Sun soundtrack!
When the game looks so good it doesn't even need ray tracing
5:08
it's called TRASHtracing, as expected of weakstation 5 / weakbox series x
Tiberian Sun music makes me happy
not working, p_rt_enable just can't be enabled
Brilliant, and clear explanations of cube mapping and RT. Subscribed.
I’m usually always for ray tracing but because of how you view this game and how expensive it is to run already i just don’t see the gains vs the performance cost here. The side by side shots with off/on RT looked extremely similar at that rear angle. The same angle you’ll have for 90% of your playtime. Sure it’s nice to just look at your car sometimes and in those moments you’d get more use of it. But without DLSS this is sadly a pass for me 😞
Id trade out texture quality for RT any day, in motion everything around you gets blurred so much you could get away with 1080p textures, but the car is still crystal clear so RT would be better.
That being said, textures below extreme are bugged and revert to low right now, so idk
I tend to agree, and am playing at 4k/60 on a 3080. Frankly I'd rather use any headroom i can find for more anti-aliasing vs this given how distracting the shimmering edges can be, even at native 4k, 4xMSAA, plus AA enhancement in the Nvidia Control Panel
The photo mode is a pretty big thing for some people in Forza Horizon games, this is a pretty big deal at least for them.
@@existentialselkath1264 I mean, reducing texture quality usually has no impact on performance.
MSAA 2X FXAA ON looks nice to me at 1440p. I noticed minimal jaggies.
Good to have the cahnnel back!
I'll wait till they add this in game and a proper AA. There's so much noise by default.
How dare you use the tib sun soundtrack in the intro. You don't even imagine how many emotions this envokes.... Love it!
Followed the steps provided and it didn't work for me. Not seeing any reflected mirrors or spoilers in my game. Looks like others are having similar issues
Amazing work as ever Alex. Amazing mod Frosty
Given that this is called "cheat engine", is it going to introduce bans since the game is always-online?
Simple. Rename it to word.exe
@@youtindia They have ways to detect certain .exe files. Sort of database with the hash/checksum/signature or whatever.
@@youtindia Galaxy brain
not an issue because the online mode doesn't work most of the time anyway 5head
@@youtindia Man, the word.exe reminds me of once seeing news about a guy found cheating in a gaming contest.
I never expected I would ever hear Tiberian Sun music and see Forza. What a time to be alive.
Unfortunately today's patch has stopped this mod from working. :(
and nobody is talking about it because it seems like only 10 people actually tried it. Its a shame because it looked great while it lasted.
They should add it at least in photo mode
6:36 they actually stopped tracing the ray when it hit the glass, crating a black wall instead. The easiest solution to not have to raytrace through multiple transparencies.
props for cranking up the Frank Klepacki as the background music
new version fh5 please update, in the previous version it worked perfectly
Just wanted to say, nice Tiberian Sun music on this video :D
With such a dynamic game, I don't need RT. It looks very good without ray tracing :)
I agree 100% with this. Any fast moving game really is the same, shooters, sports and even games like spideraman where you only notice the better reflections when you stop moving.
Game is gorgeous
Very cool, was planning on playing Horizon 5 on my Series X but with the RT mod I might enjoy it on my PC with a RTX 3080 instead.
anyone have an update for the cheat table? The recent FH5 update killed it.
Appreciated the Tiberian Sun music in the intro.
Makes me wonder why Playground Games didn’t enable any Ray tracing outside of forzavista considering they already have the tech implemented. Maybe they will offer something in a future update.
hopefully alongside DLSS
probably because the consoles wouldnt handle it. on my series S when i enter the forza vista mode and the rt enables i can clearly see the resolution drops to 1080p, when in normal gameplay it is 1440p. and this is the quality mode where its at 30fps. the series x could probably handle rt in gameplay but definitely not at 4k like it is currently.
because they want people to feel special with their new consoles not being overshadowed by being better on pc
Probably because the consoles would not be able to handle it at a decent frame rate. They would not want the Series X/PS5 to look outdated.
@@adrvapor9433 dlss is nvidia
Tried this today works great... Few visual bugs but overall great work thanks for this
anyone having issues of it not working anymore? It worked once for me and it just stopped working after.
Boy, I was CONVINCED we had reached the pinnacle of realism when this video started, and then that racer on a motorcycle struck a light pole at 0:23 and sent the light pole flying through the air, and that brought me back to reality REAL quick.
Lol, true.. the physics in forza games is horrible since the 1st game
Doesn't this game have anti cheat? I can't say i'd recommend even opening cheat engine with it around let alone actually tweaking the game doing it. That would risk your entire xbox account would it not?
No
I was thinking the same thing
On pc you can launch game pass games in modded mode that disables drm and achievement tracking.
@@lSeKToRl how do you do that?
@@lSeKToRl how??
That truck looked so realistic it fooled my whole family
Playing with a 5800x and a 3080, not going to use this until we get the DLSS. Hope the DLSS comes today. I can't believe it's not available on PC yet.
I don't see them adding DLSS, but the exclusion of FSR is indeed odd.
Very cool. If the Nvidia control panel's Transparency Anti-aliasing works as well in FH5 as it does in Forza Horizon 4, that in conjunction with this mod could provide the best graphics experience in the game. Once you see those trees and foliage around you and on the horizon without the shimmering you'd normally see, its hard to go back to anything else.
Using transparency AA to enhance my 4xMSAA at 4k on a RTX 3080. Still a lot of shimmering. 8x is better but too heavy, and still not even all the way there.
@@Kira-qc4qi it's definitely not a fix-all but even at the lowest setting i found it dramatically helps the graphical presentation in FH4.
I found forcing transparency in FH5 with control panel doesn't work as well as it did in FH3 (didn't try it in FH4). So now I'm just running at 4k with 8x MSAA and FXAA. It clears up most of the shimmer on a 1440p monitor. The game looks super clean without any TAA blur, FXAA does blur the image but I'm okay with it so far.
@@brewski535 I'm gonna try fxaa with maybe some sharpening next
@@Kira-qc4qi yeah I'm running at about 25% sharpening in the control panel.
Personally I'm waiting for the "Don't Crash Constantly" mod - when is that coming??
Same lol I torcher myself and play the 30min until a hard crash.☹
I believe it’s the called the Xbox version
There's an automated steering option. I think FM6 Apex might have introduced this feature on PC. I Could be wrong I never played the Xbox One Forza games.
Great video and great work by Frosticles, it'd be interesting to see some videos by modders on how they create their mods and the problems they overcome to get them released to such a high standard.
Wow the performance is very impressive. No reason to not have this enabled on PC.
Unless you want to play online and don't want to get banned for using Cheat Engine.
Just keep that in mind.
That would make the next gen consoles look bad. Thus it is not an option.
@@BenoHourglass There's no reason for PLAYGROUND to not have this enabled on PC. Cheatengine is just telling them to get this shit together
@@abhijeetdey Next gen consoles always look bad against $4000+ PCs I don't see this as a problem. Most console gamers simply don't care, and most PC players can't afford it.
But it's a fantastic chance to sell the game, I'm surprised they didn't see that.
@@abhijeetdey Microsoft has made games with setting beyond console on PC already.
7:31 "There is now RT affecting the Car in an obvious way", I literally cannot tell the difference without the Label at the bottom xD
But amazing explanations for everything, thanks Alex + DF team!
Obvious to graphics news when they are looking for it. You show someone that shot of the blue hood and headlight and they might not even notice its not a real photo.
Digital Foundry: here is a 12 minute video showing how RT makes the car look better in the game. Look closely at this side mirror. Me, after intently watching the whole video: In all scenes where the car is actually driving, I can't see the difference.
Exactly
its so beautiful
now the game just needs dynamic res scaling and also dlss
DLSS would be epic
Yeah AA is really bad in this game.
Oh ure back! Cheers
It's interesting, but definitely not worth it to enable. The difference in gameplay is so minor, it's no wonder they didn't add it into the game. The cube maps do a great job and unless you stop to analyze the reflections, the inaccuracies are never going to stand out, and with that said even with RT on the reflection are only slightly more accurate, still not accurate to how reflections really work at all.
Don't speak for everyone. I personally have been waiting for a racing game with uncompromised graphical detail for AGES. Not to mention that the game is still running well over 60fps with RT reflection ON. Last game that got almost too close to this level was Driveclub, despite the pathetic fps. Racing games had self-reflection in CG artworks since the beginning of the century, they clearly know that this is a big deal towards realistic graphics.
Love the Tiberian Sun music in the beginning!
Love this game
I like it, but I played it in 2016.
@@fcukugimmeausername yeah its exactly the same game they keep making. yet somehow the character animations and presentation of everything before an event/race still looks awful like the crowd models. also theres no AA and the LOD is awful. im trying to figure out what people love about forza horizon 5, maybe they havent played the first 4?
@@brucetus Not sure. Each to their own though. I loved the first one and the third one was great. But yeah... it's the same game. Even UI elements remain unchanged.
Alex at his best, another well informative video, thank you!
I know RT heads don't wanna here this, but the Real Time Cube Maps look just as good and doesn't kill the performance. The more I see analysis content like this the more I just don't care about Ray Tracing. Even if the technology is technically better, like anything else in the world if someone else can do the same thing cheaper then that's what we go with!
facts. Not worth it in this game.... slower paced games are a different story. You don't notice the difference anyway while driving
The reflections in the mirrors and on the car look pretty attrocious I dont know what youre talking about. look at 6:13 and the game doesnt have raytracing against the environment just the car itself so you cant compare the cube map quality to what raytracing can do since that form of ray tracing isnt implemented in this game. And the cube maps on the back of flat cars like the jeep look abominable,
5:08
it's called TRASHtracing, as expected of weakstation 5 / weakbox series x
@@Luiko0406 dude relax
Please always use C&C music whenever possible 👍👍
RT doesn’t work anymore
That Diablo 1 music in backgroud, nice
Please add dlss for this game
ray tracing mode really makes game look much better
Hey guys, this mod no longer works.
Those square boxes on the windshield aren't from RT. Those are on a couple of my cars too and just seem to be bugged. Tinting the windows helped hide those a lot.
Modders do what Microsoft don't
Until playground bans you.
I learned about cubemaps better here than any teaching video about it
great, now the update screwed us all
These games look so good that it took me a second to see that the raytracing version does infact look better. But to be fair, I've been playing switch games for so long, that anything on my PS5 and PC looks like the best thing ever to my eyes.
All this looks neat for the purposes of a video like this one, but even if they add it, I wouldn't play with it turned on. In a game where you're constantly on the move, like this one, the performance hit is to high for basically shinier cars.
It is not working anymore because of the latest FH5 update. Will there be another working version for this mod?
crying with gtx 1060 tears...
Reflecting reflections reflected in the reflections?! Pure reflection I say.